kennedy: if you are a republican you have probably said to yourself once or twice, the sons of bitches and washington are screwing things up on purpose. if you're a democrat it only takes to was to bring back that particular motion, dick cheney. meanwhile, independents have spent most of the scrappy century saying you are both right, but there is an important point when you assume the other team is deliberately driving the ships into the ditch. many, perhaps even most lousy government policy start out with pristine intentions backed by a majority sometimes of voters who just want to help people out. tonight we're here to remind you to as st. bernard first stop us

good intentions may be great but they pave the road to hell. ♪ i plan yet i am matt welch and the hosting chair this week for kennedy with kmele foster. our special guest. together we are "the independents". what is a classic example of good government intentions gone horribly pearr eyes on the one e solution to a landfill overcrowding. >> the year is 1972, the problem, too many old tires piling up in landfills. the solution, over 2 million off the coast of florida to create an artificial reef for marine life. sounds like a great idea with the best of intentions. what could possibly go wrong? it turns out tires around enroll

of becoming uncontrollable wrecking balls that destroy the natural coral nearby. some scientists believe the rumor is also leaking toxins into the environment. one thing is for sugar, cleaning up this mess will take years, cost millions of dollars command even require help from the military. it. kennedy: tonight we will be counting down in no particular order nine of the most zealous examples of good policy intentions gone wrong. we will start with a cluster of initiatives that can be broadly classified under the war on poverty. number nine, the government's endless attempts to create affordable housing for all. everyone needs a house, and we all wanted. national review online contributor joins us. tell us a little bit about the folly of trying to create affordable housing for all, particularly poor and minority communities puts the best example of this illustration going back to an f-15 years, a number of big government housing projects, high-rise structure

where the government build housing. they blew them up for it. magnificent examples of socialism crashing down. when you put people in the huge warehouses you create all kinds of negative social conditions. what you find in many of those places is they have replace them with lower level building spree people get to know their neighbors better. it is just one example. kennedy: -- matt: that urban renewal was launched under harry truman. one of the fare deals. actually reduce the net number while tearing down of a lot of neighborhoods. >> since we are in new york city

rent control does much the same thing. >> and the unintended consequence of sinking all this money into these developments is a concentrated people in certain areas and did not allow them to move out into the suburbs and create a bunch ofn. matt: the federal government is just all over housing policy. it actually led to the mortgage so crisis. >> i think there was a bill signed by bill clinton called the community reinvestment act which require banks to lend. the idea was to reduce discrimination. what end up happening is people who are not qualified to pay back loans. it may have happened that there were more minorities than white, but if your bank internet lending is not because this person has to little and come up because you're a bunch of racists.

the loan allow more money and people could pay back. people can't pay their mortgages . pretty soon you have the collapse of 2008. if the government had not force these banks to do that where lycee babies president write this off right away incursion to save some money and we would not have had the utter collapse from which we are still suffering. matt: let's not forget that the federal government back all of this. therefore incentivizing banks to make these kind of risky loans. america has a long history of governmental and private discrimination. affirmative-action and the war on poverty were designed in the 1960's to write those very real wrongs. how they are number eight.

>> we use that word broadly. i don't think anybody has a problem with average. if your city or state you want to hire fire fighters are policeman. it's okay to run eds in mainstream news terrorist. applications are available. please sign up. we start running into trouble when you say we want applicants will receive we have the test you can get back with a score of 70. ec in municipalities and school districts many have thing is let tess for employment, education of proficiency tests and so on, different standards for people based upon their ethnicity. that is a racist a don't know what is.

teetering erasure help him independent of their racial background. matt: the thing is made things worse? >> is difficult to say paris is kerosenes studies suggesting that when minority students who would not have gotten an otherwise, they sometimes have a difficult time getting acclimated and probably would've been better served going someplace else. what is clear is whether or not they are underperforming people's perception is often times hindered because of the existence of policies like this. that is one very real unintended consequence. >> a la base policies are failing as in the public eye with the large majority say we're not in favor of supposedly one of the recent campaigns are

reinstate was pushed back. sara lee's benefit by the policies and often aren't led them for. matt: trying to find the few places where they're is a zero sum game was interesting is people don't really talk that much pitted comes up at every now and again talking abut university admissions. this much affirmative-action cap who pubes making this more politically which might be a good thing. >> a lot of these instances were fighting the symptoms rather than the causes. while we sit we really need to do is give minority kids as educated as possible. where will have a column with the tests because aren't

learning anything. the comment to the tester may be knows will prepared rather see the focus on how we get those kids is responsible rather than toyed around with the tests. half. matt: i thank you very much. coming out, our countdown continues believe the government keeps on doing good badly. also, anthony wiener is here half. now with and the shoddy record puck we never thought we'd be farming wind out here.

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baena jeff. matt: and counting down the government's disaster earlier intentions. it's a big kettle with health care he bury the idea always sounds. with let's make sure every american can get health insurance how was the working out? senior editor in reason magazine printed thank you for joining shower should. tell us about some of the things we have seen. >> it is attempting to describe obamacare as one begum unintended consequence. certainly it has offered a parade of them over and over again. one of my favorites is obamacare sets up these things called accountable care organizations

basically creating incentives for health care providers to consolidate into big units that are supposed to be will it take care of you holistic we. the problem is when you have consolidation in the health care industry that gives providers more market power and drives up the cost of health care. in fact, this is so well-known that the ftc has actually been suing hospitals that consolidate too much. you have this fight between two parts of the executive branch, one of which says these hospitals are too big in the other one is creating incentives for hospitals to get bigger. another when you have is medical loss ratios. medical loss ratios are kind of walkie financial provisions that say insurers can only take 15 or 20 percent of any -- of their house premiums as for profit and for overhead.

spent on actual health expenses. what that means is they are limited in terms of the percentage of premium dollars that can be spent and used for profit. and so what do they have to do if they want to increase profits? they have to increase their premium. all of these little tiny provisions within law that were intended to do one thing but end up doing something and clearly different, often the opposite of what was intended. >> it seems fairly simple. the more of the limited resources. the free-market where you have consumers making decisions about what they get. what is the lure of continuing to go bigger? are there ways we can extract ourselves from this pattern? >> part of it is that we have done it for so long and so much prior to obamacare, nearly 50 percent of all health care dollars were government dollars. obamacare adds to that a little

bit. it depends upon how you make the calculation. the way to extract ourselves from this is, first of all, to put on the brakes not to expand further. expanding before obamacare. you look at the s-ship debate to my children's health insurance program back in 2007. president bush was looking for ways to expand health insurance to children through basically what is a medicaid program. one of the unintended consequences there was a thing called crowd out in which case you already have private insurance and up on medicaid which is in most cases a worse program. the first thing you have to do is say stop. we're not going to do any more of this and look for ways to simplify the system and make it work in a way that makes more sense. matt: let's go from healing the sick to cleaning the air. number six was supposed to be a way to wean us of fossil fuels by unlocking the energy

potential of are plentiful and comparatively less yucky corn. how did that ethanol mandate in the subsidy regimes? >> it also did exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to do. this is a great one. i mean, it has done almost nothing that anyone who was in favor of subsidizing corn ethanol fuel wanted it to do except possibly for the people who are getting paid to do this. the whole idea was that ethanol will be a clean fuel, greater, you know, better for the environment. what you see is that ethanol is worse for the environment when you look at the overall picture, the transportation, the inefficiencies that are involved at the same time it also contributes to world under because now we are doing is paying farmers to burn corn -- excuse me, to create corn that is then burned for fuel rather than the. what we need to do with food is

heated. that drives up the price of food globally which for people who are very poor in third-world countries, if you are living on one or $2 a day, even a few cents rise in the price of corn which is a staple for much of the world is going to make a huge impact on your ability to feed yourself and your family. >> the other predictable if unintended outcomes of all of this is that you have concentrated benefits and distributed costs. these policies never ever seen to go away. everyone seems to acknowledge that at the mall does not really make a lot of sense as an energy substitute. the law has not gone any place. why does it stay that way? is anyone going to be able to get rid of it? >> it is absolutely the concentrated benefits problem here as the biggest defenders are the people who benefit directly from its financially and their legislators. and because they have legislators who talk about how

great this program is and how it is helping american farmers, that has made it difficult to rollback the subsidies. you have seen a little bit of movement were some subsidies have been cut off and then reinstated, things like that, but it has been difficult. what i would say is that that little bit of movement that we have seen over the past couple of years and some of their rejiggering of the way that crop subsidies are managing general does suggest that in the medium term there may be some potential for congress to come together and basically think, look, let's stop paying these guys to produce corn that goes in the car engines. need to be producing corn for people to eat, not harming american consumers and cars and making the global poor poorer and hungrier. matt: thank you. coming up, the government tries to stop us from doing bad things to ourselves like shooting heroin are making 60 time with prostitutes.

often laws meant to stop our says just make things worse. sex, drugs, booze next. wondering what that is? that, my friends, is everything. and with the quicksilver card from capital one, you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase. not just "everything at the hardware store." not "everything, until you hit your cash back limit." quicksilver can earn you unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you could possibly imagine. say it with me -- everything. one more time, everything! and with that in mind... what's in your wallet?

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he has a phaser! it's not a phaser! it's my phone! he can use his voice to control the tv. you can use your woice? my voice. your woice. my voice. "vuh," voice. his voice. your woice? look. watch sci-fi. [ female announcer ] the x1 entertainment operating system, only from xfinity. matt: for hundreds of years government has tried to protect people from their own devices. most notorious apex during the universally acknowledge disaster of of of prohibition, but even today many sense like drugs and prostitution are still the legal often with very similar effects to the ones that ravaged the country back in the twenties which brings us to number five on our countdown of good intentions gone bad.

the government intend to keep us send-free. joining as is thaddeus russell, professor of american studies at occidental college in the man who believes fervently in sen. thank you for joining us. >> sure. no problem. matt: i understand you disagree with our set up that the government has good intentions to begin with. let's set that aside and talk about the road to halifax of things like prohibition, uni, big a ten days of the st. lawrence and alaska have on not mistaken. this is a museum. don't worry about it. [laughter] but i have heard you give a pretty interesting rap of the effects of prohibition on prostitution in the west to those businesses and people. what are some of the effects? >> it was unjust and the west across the country. the 19th century prostitution was technically illegal but it was not in force in most places. prostitutes were free to

practice their trade on the streets and in brothels. cut that gave prostitution tremendous protection from violence clients, the police. they were relatively well paid. the law of supply and demand, not much supply in great demand. madames who own the brothels were among the wealthiest not just women but people in the united states which give them tremendous power politically and economically. he could not really become mayor of san francisco, detroit, seattle, los angeles, without the support of the madams in those towns. this is all happening basically by the way before this such a thing as feminism. suffrage is a very early movements. so you really have women who are very, very powerful doing a lot of things that women were not supposed to do like walking

alone in public without a males shop around which was of okay for respectable woman. the cosmetic us -- comes back industry was built. that property, wages, protected themselves with guns often. another thing that women are not supposed to do. all these freedoms the prestigious pioneered for women long before fairness raise them as issues they were doing these things. then what happened to us the suffrage movement happens, feminism and progressivism convene relevance of rich and. and of the things than this it was we have to and prostitution and prove that women can be good at standing american citizens who decide men. the social purity movement says it all which calls for eliminating the brothels, closing than that and sending them on to the streets. what happened was, of course we see them today under overpasses

and cities in the worst neighborhoods on the were streets of american cities fee. forced onto the street from a forced into the care of violent criminals that we now know as pence. there were, of course are subject to arrest on that debases public typically in america prostitute today will spend at least 100 nights in jail during her career. those of the consequences of prohibition of prostitution. >> i'm glad my respectability is not proportional to make up wearing. when it comes to the drug war many americans have agreed that what we're doing is not working. when it comes to marijuana they have. they want to see how that plays out. when it comes to a harder drugs if they do not walk down the road to those conclusions. what is your take on that and is there a place where it is okay to prick a certain substances

endo practices? >> is it okay? don't know. is it wise? i don't know. july what that? no. my quick answer is portugal decreasing because of decriminalization. white powder was legal in this country and widely used until the early 20th century. american civilization and because of its? no. o.c. the drive to prohibit the opium was driven because of an idea that chinese people and mexicans were brain these drugs across the border in bringing with them ellises assure the. an underwriting of the american work ethic this is a very

intimate thing. the question is see what this state, the nation's state with its monopoly of violence forcing you to do things intimately where you would have otherwise not given. to you want them involved in here and some of life? >> said. our favorite historian. next, our countdown of unintended consequences continues. anthony wiener is here. in an iraqi war general tells us firsthand about the elements in his consequences of america trying to spread

♪. matt: they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, we're counting down the government's worst intentions,

number four on our list, not necessarily our guest list. bank bailout known as tarp on. september 24th, 2008 president george w. bush warned the nation of what might happen if congress didn't immediately bail out the banks? >> without immediate action by congress, america could slip into a financial panic. more banks could fail including some in your community. the stock market would drop even more which would reduce the value of your retirement account. the value of your home could plummet, foreclosures would rise dramatically. millions of americans could lose their jobs. ultimately our country could experience a long and painful recession. fellow citizens, we must not let this happen. matt: careful observers note despite tarp being passed, more banks did fail, the stock market did drop even more, home values did plummet, more foreclosures and the recession was painful. back with us the always

pugnacious friend of ours, anthony weiner, former congressman from new york. >> no problem. that george bush was a smart guy! good moment for him. matt: with a deer in the headlights look, normally a big fan of capitalism, but, in that speech. you say libertarians are crazy for thinking at that time that the better answer was to do nothing, to let banks fail, and suffer the consequences of their own actions. what's your case? >> i guess actually, you know, surprisingly that moment we can forget now, but there was a moment of consensus that when you have banks seizing up, the financial markets seizing up, no one has the muscle. the free market doesn't have the muscle to unbreak that thing and it would have been a death spiral, economic death spiral. to let everyone, maybe libertarians at this table, said the government has to do something to infuse the money to stabilize the system, and it worked. the 700 billion dollars was not

used. only 400 something. most of it was paid back. it was an argument for my style of politics, which is when government can do something, it should, and i'm under the belief, that's what libertarians believe also. only times when government is the only alternative should they jump in. at that moment in our economic civic life, government was the only one that could stabilize the hemorrhage. >> go ahead. >> i suppose you with make that argument if you take the counterfactual, it would have been much, much worse had we not done anything, we're not going to settle whether or not it had to be done is what you did end up getting, and you have moral hazard created as a result of doing this. have you uncertainty into the future. you have the further consolidation of the big banks which gaves the vulnerability. >> hearing complaints about consolidation. >> those things happened as a result of tarp. >> you can say it happened as a result of tarp. notwithstanding tarp. no doubt about it, nothing but bad decisions, one of the things that often gets lost in

the split screen society we're in is good choice and bad choice. no, when we were dealing with a lot of crummy options. one of the worst would be to sit on our hands and do nothing. they were saying do nothing! sit back and watch to see how bad it could get. we knew how bad it could have gotten. we tried to mitigate that, the law was passed in connection with tarp, it's not perfect, but i will say this, the financial sector in our society and country is a lot stronger than it would have been under any circumstance if we were to let that decline. matt: let's move onto tarp's cousin, not direct brother. fast-forward less than five months after that speech bush's successor was warning if congress didn't immediately pass the stimulus. >> even if we do everything that we should, this crisis was years in the making, and will

take more than weeks or months to turn things around. but make no mistake, a failure to act and act now will turn crisis into a catastrophe. matt: again, careful observers might note that some of the things he's mentioned in that speech were going to happen if we didn't pass including double digit employment did take place. >> yeah, but a lot of people were saying inflation is going to kick in. a lot of people were right, and a lot of people were wrong. if you believe that at that moment that the fundamental problem in our economy was people weren't spending, they didn't have money to spend, businesses weren't investing. here you are with the ability to print money. and if you sit back and say we're not going to -- remember what the money went to. keep teachers from being laid off. cops from being laid off. get programs going that were going anyway, it was action over inaction, history is going to show, and frankly i think it has, that that action stopped us from having a much worse

recession. >> ask you this, on the issue of the stimulus, part of the sale was infrastructure, roads, bridges, and yet as recently as the last two weeks, the president speaking about the dire issue of broken roads, bridges and infrastructure. if it did what it was supposed to do, why are we talking about this? >> three people made the same argument. no one argued in either one of the cases it was supposed to solve every single problem. >> 10% -- >> hold on a second. to the american people was the infrastructure. >> stimulus was not big enough. you are correct. should have been much larger. and a lot of us argued at the time we should have made it much more muscular. by the way, when you're building it's much different than the bush years, where money going to tax breaks that weren't buying anything. in this case, buying bridges and roads and keeping teachers and cops on the job, and it worked. unemployment, the unemployment turned around,

largely, but you can say whatever you do anything, we built this bridge, cut the ribbon and complain. that's terrible, there's another bridge down the road. matt: i think we can say the recovery has been much more disappointing than any of the administration's own prognosticators, and i can't give you the final word, we're out of time. [ laughter ] >> it's the law. matt: thank you very much, anthony weiner. coming up, the road to hell keeps winding, sending us straight through iraq. a general is here who served in the bush administration and has a lot to say that the iraq war became. plus how can we talk about government screwing things up without bringing up education? in new york state, we're changing the way we do business, with startup ny. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure.

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. matt: road to hell continues on "the independents" with a place that seems to get more hellish by the day. iraq. america's foreign policy leaders thought they were removing an imminent danger to the world community, eliminating a breeding ground for islamic terrorists and creating a potentially lasting democratic example in the autocratic middle east. instead, iraq is ground zero of a transnational religious war and the region looks less stabile and promising than ever. joining us is retired major general paul eaton, assigned to iraq in the crucial years of 2003-4, and becoming a leading critic of the bush-cheney administration. thanks for being with us. >> great to be with you. matt: what was the original sin in the planning execution conception of the iraq war? >> well, the -- in the planning phase, military planners deal in sequels and branches, and sequel is what's next?

when we took baghdad, and secured it with the third division in the marines, we did not have a plan to address a failed state. we didn't have the phase four planning, so when the pot boiled over, we were unprepared. we were ill manned to address the problem. we didn't have enough troops on the ground to work it. >> and do you think that the subsequent instability throughout the middle east and places like syria and libya, which have made headlines in recent years and months. that that is directly related to the fallout from the iraq war conflict? >> i think they're related, but it goes back to the 1920s, the pico arrangement that never did settle the political realities of the region, and you don't have people who are trained, who are personally inclined to have sophisticated governance where the rights of the minorities are assured. if you don't do that, if you

don't -- if you're a majority shia population, shia arab population and if you haven't addressed the rights of your sunni 20% in iraq, of your kurd 20% in iraq, then your political structure is going to break down. if you haven't integrated, then you will see exactly what's transpiring right now before us. >> general, let me ask you this, you write and talk a lot about not getting counterinsurgency correct in iraq. not having a plan for after the state at that time fell. arguably years after fits and starts and many mistakes i do not want to minimize, the anbar uprising created good out of that, and arguably other parts of the country as well and the central government in iraq, though it was flawed. we're talking about good intentions. is there an argument that the good intentions of extricating

ourselves from iraq a little too quickly lost some of the actual gains? >> in a perfect world, we would have continued to do what we were doing best in 2006-2007 when general petraeus decided he was going to bust out of the great forward operating bases and to soldier, shoulder to shoulder with our iraqi military and our iraqi policemen. we gave them confidence. we also gave them links to combat multipliers that gave them additional resilience in the face of counterinsurgency warfare. the fact that we pulled all of those advisers, all of those americans who are soldiering, next to our iraqis, next to our iraqi allies, by pulling them out, we removed that great confidence factor. there was a second effect. we also removed the influence

that we had on the prime minister who immediately went back to his old ways, the old ways of leadership for decades and centuries in that region, and that is a failure to include the minorities in governance. so al-maliki started replacing very good commanders with commanders more loyal to him and competent on the battlefield. >> in hindsight, knowing everything we know now, should we have gone in iraq in the first place? >> should not have gone into iraq in the first place. matt: thank you very much. good intention gone wrong. you are on the road to hell. and it continues next. ♪ you've reached the age where you know how things work. this is the age of knowing what needs to be done.

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♪. matt: tonight, we've been counting down ten of the cases of government intentions gone wrong. because we've reached number one doesn't mean there are plenty more examples out there, there is only so much can you cover in an hour. the final installment is federal education programs. what could be bad about the government wanting kid to read and write better and improve math and science skills. for much of the country it seems like a no-brainer. he's been watching for years as good intentions go to die in education. andrew, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. matt: so i want to talk first about common core and no child left behind, a side to the same coin. it springs from a sense of good intentions, does it not?

we need to figure out a way to measure educational results and incentivize people to do better. how come they haven't worked? . >> the things that drives up standards. we're trying to improve educational standards in the united states, and the thing that drives up standards in the rest of the world is competition. competition causes people to work harder to strive harder to find better, cheaper ways to do things and we don't have that in education. what the government is trying to do by creating programs to simulate this is just grossly ineffective. we've been trying it for 40 years, spent trillions of dollars on it and it hasn't done good for educational outcomes. >> there is all these testing regimes, my mother is a teacher and deals with it on every level. all of it is getting grumblings from teachers, we're teaching to test. the students aren't learning properly. what is the best way to test outcomes and how do we

incentivize the good ways to do that? >> leave to to the marketplace. parents want to know how well their children are doing. not all children care about exactly the same thing. if you have a marketplace in education, you let parents choose the schools doing a good job teaching kids and a good job measuring their success in teaching. so with that competition, you will find a multiplicity of different tests become available and parents choose the schools that are testing the things they care about and doing a good job at it. >> i suspect one other thing that grows out of the way we do education in the united states is that any number of personal predilections become the nasty political footballs. are we going to teach our kids sex ed at sixth or fifth grade? do you see that playing now the various other areas throughout the public education system? >> that's a universal pattern and it goes back in the united states to the 1840s which is

roughly when we started to get the state involved in education in a big way. whenever you force everyone in a country to pay for a certain kind of education as we do with public schooling, you're going to have a death battle over what will be taught. and the first time this happened was actually in 1844, in the philadelphia bible riots, during which they were arguing over which version of the bible, protestant or catholic should be used in the city's public schools. >> the kgb won that battle, right? >> no won. tons of people were killed and schools burned to the ground. >> ouch. we've seen federal per capita spending on students go up three times in four decades and testing scores are dead flat. are there areas where policies are worse instead of flat? >> good question. i think probably there are some

areas but the big story is really this incredible increase in spending with stagnation in outcomes, that is unique in every area of human life where progress is the norm. matt: andrew, thank you very much. next, we look into the future. right now, well intentioned busy bodies in washington and we never thought we'd be farming wind out here. it's not just building jobs here, it's helping our community.

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. matt: for the past hour, we counted down some of the worst cases of government good intentions that led to disastrous consequences in the recent and distant past. sadly, government do gooders have proved shockingly resistant to learning from mistakes, as we speak, new flag stones are laid down in fresh public policy roads to hell, and we're here to give you a guide what's coming up around the bend. mary katharine ham, what can we fear? >> ever green but will continue into the future, the government health minders when it comes to food. what has been the refrain since

i've been alive is fat will make you fat. therefore you should eat all low-fat things, what happens. we put a bunch of carbs in the low-fat things that taste bad taste good. matt: and load it with sugar. >> you can't buy full fat yogurt, i try. because they've gotten to the point. and it's coming to the future with sodium. eggs were bad, cholesterol bad and they're going after salt even though it is anti-science to say it is bad for you. >> what are you feared of? . >> technology, the precautionary principle seems to be the guiding light how we go about regulating the world around us. we see drones come into existence and people say my god, it's sky net. google glass, it's frightening and terrifying, there ought to be a law to keep it away from us. when you are overzealous of regulation, you forfeit cool innovations that are hard to

parse out. you don't know what newfangled toy or device that would improve everyone's life wouldn't go into existence because we have a knee-jerk regulatory commission. matt: my biggest concern is the area of climate change. environmental policy is the most sort of understandably justified type of policy because no one really owns the air and things like that. you have to figure it out. and people are worried about man made climate change or man's contribution to it and the types of ways people want to solve the problem too often go in the way of mandating things like ethanol fuels or restricting things too much or trying to slow down actual economic growth, and the thing that will hurt our ability to cope with climate change, much worse than anything else is if we decide to become less rich and won't buy our way out of problem. we're going to buy our way out of the show. thanks for taking this guided tour of our highway to hell. special thanks to mary katharine ham for being with us tonight and several other shows

this week. for m.k. hammer and kmele foster, i'm matt welch. good night. >> they are everywhere. the lawyers who claim they will solve our problems. >> bill o'reilly and do you think america will lock these people up? >> we have too many laws. and let's get rid of something. that is our show tonight. ♪ ♪