much are we talking about? peter: oil up two or three dollars if they thought it was a threat. if you hit the refineries, that will drive up gasoline prices. it is $0.50. even more on a major hit. fifty cent would be typical. ashley: as always, rate information. thank you very much. lori: let's talk about the economy we have today. july new-home sales rising to match a two year high. is this new found strength in housing powerful enough to drive a recovery? let's bring in president and

chief investment officer. great to have you. the existing home sales data yesterday it was decent, at best. you believe that housing will lead the next economic recovery. >> yes. i think it is the only thing leaving that right now. consumers being frugal with their spending giving all the uncertainty politically coming up this fall. the bright spot in the economy seems to be housing. lori: when you sake "bright spot", explain that. you mentioned all of those risks out there. give me a time frame. >> i think so. if you look at real estate, excess inventory in the system is down on eight year over year

basis. prices have gone up. pending home sales have increased. it is fair to say that the real estate market has bottomed. will it experience a genetic increase? i don't think so. the fact that we know how this implied bottom on real estate. lori: you also like diversified commodity baskets. >> yes. lori: heard a lot about the dividend payers lately. when will you work in some cyclicals? >> some of it and consumer discretionary, some of it can consumer staples. at the heart of that is mortgage and healthcare reits. lori: you say the s&p 500 will basically be where it is about

now. how to play this kind of market? i know volatility is low. it is the end of the summer. are you holding back until we get clarity? >> i don't think we'll have that clarity until early 2013th and that elections are behind us. i think the new normal, i hate to use that catchphrase, that gdp growth in at 2% range. i think looking to the u.s., big is getting bigger and dividend strategies are worth your consideration. lori: we always talk about these risks. all the uncertainties of the fiscal cliff and what the fed is going to do. what is going on in europe. everyone has all of these outlooks. are we missing something? >> think about how resilient the u.s. consumer has been throughout this downturn despite the fact that commodity rises

are rising. we are still seeing consumers spend. what will give them the power and motivation to actually start spending more money, i think it is that uncertainty in washington. once it is resolved and we resolve the fiscal cliff, at least for now, i think people will start spending again. lori: you cannot say the rising prices are actually good -- overall, it has to be crimping at least sentiment tonight i think they are still willing to spend in spite of that. when we deal with inflation, then you will start to see consumers spend again. that could be the catalyst for earnings growth. lori: kevin, thank you for the discussion. >> thank you. ashley: gop presidential campaign candidate mitt romney

just finishing up. we will have an exclusive interview with the former governor. ♪

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♪ ashley: it is time to make money with charles payne.

a sweet follow up on a previous recommendation. charles: i loved that. that was cool. we have foster wheeler. international global construction company. though global construction industry is not what you would think it would be. they are coming on pretty nicely. i will admit in the last four quarters they missed the street four times. today their stock is up. dealing with thailand. dealing with minnesota. dealing with the uk. i like the way it is acting here. maybe i could be early, but i think at these levels and no one else is talking about it, but the world is going crazy, particularly for fossil fuels.

multi, multi, multi billion dollar deals. lori: follow us up on krispy kreme. charles: it is up big. we have 14% on it. i am a little sheepish here. i do not think the numbers were that great. i personally would take the 14% and run with it, you know. they just were not as robust. i like to see for a company this size -- it made a huge move. 14%. i still think they have potential. i really do. they made a lot of mistakes in the past. wall street does not forget that easily. ashley: grade-point. charles: you guys are a great

team. don't tell tracy i said that. lori: let's go back down to the floor of the new york stock exchange. lauren: some all-time highs. take a look at whole foods. the shares are down a little bit right now. earlier today they hit $98 a share. the influence there was a wells fargo starting the grocery store. they did the same with the fresh market. those shares also hitting all-time highs. these shares are down some 4%. they also cut the price target to $17. safeway now at 15 and some change. lori: good update. ashley: mitt romney is campaigning in new mexico today.

peter barnes will have a live exclusive interview with the former massachusetts governor who wants to be president. stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] at scottrade,

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♪ ashley: mitt romney unveiling his energy plan this afternoon in new mexico: for north america to be energy independent by 2020. joining us this fox businesses peter barnes with an exclusive interview with governor romney. peter: we want to point out that the governor's video feed is being provided by his campaign. i read over your 28 plan and frankly it looks like a rehash of previous republican proposals what is new on your plan today? >> i do not read old plans. i put together plans that actually create additional energy resources. we will have states take responsibility for permitting on federal lands. states already take responsibility for permitting on state lands and on private dance they can do that and ten-30

days. we will have the states take elites even on federal lands. number two, we will put together a complete analysis of our energy resources. this statement that the president keeps making is we only have 2% of the world oil is wrong. we will also have to open our sure. north carolina's as well as virginia. frankly, the resources we can get from canada, mexico, as well as oil, fuels, onshore and offshore, gives america the energy independent within years. that is something people had been talking about for a long time. it is something i am committed to doing. peter: you also talk about the keystone pipeline. have you played any of the groundwork for doing that with the canadians?

have you talked to the canadian prime minister about trying to move quickly on the keystone hyperlink, if you went? >> the canadians are all speed away. the challenge has been with the president and his administration that has not approved the keystone pipeline. the canadians expected this to happen immediately. instead the president environmental review process has caused us to be put on hold in the canadians are thinking of taking their oil to china instead. peter: but you have not talked to the canadians or prime minister harper about it? >> i am not president yet. i am looking forward to being president and i can assure you if i am, we will overcome the obstacles that exist here in the united states to make sure we can get the energy here we need. peter: environmental concerns.

that is what the president has been talking about. how would your plan increase drilling while protecting the environment which is a big concern. >> there is no question. the states, where people live, have to respond to the interests and concerns of people in those states. states have therefore been doing and permitting licensing for states and private lands. the idea that the government wants to step in and do so in such a slow and laborious manner, that does not make sense. that is what i want states to take a lead even on federal lands. look, the people in this country do not want to have our air and water made dirty. at the same time they recognize the importance of america becoming energy independent. peter: yesterday at the

congressional budget office said unless congress and the president work out some deal on the fiscal cliff, the economy could go into a significant recession early next year. assuming you are elected, you will have some influence with republicans in congress on trying to get a deal, what would you push republicans in congress to do, to work out something on the fiscal cliff to avoid a recession if you are elected, maybe during a lame duck, for example. >> the immediate thing that that -- estimates are as much as 2% reduction in gdp might occur if we go through the taxa -- we should put in place a holding. , if you will. a year or so to put in place a

spending plan, a tax plan that makes sense. this idea of cutting the defense department by some trillion dollars will obviously have an amazing effect. the president should take leadership. that is why he is president. to work out an arrangement. to make sure we will be able to have a runway that allows a new president to put in place a more permanent and appropriate solution. peter: specifically, what would you want to see and that runway? >> well, i have indicated i would keep the status quo in place with regards to tax policy, ella terry spending and the like. allow the new president to put in place his new tax program. his new budget.

i look forward to having a president that will actually lead and have budgets and policies to get america on track to economic sanity. peter: let me ask you another question, this time about private equity. the president has attacked you for some of your work at bain capital. the administration worked with a private equity firm, the carlyle group, to save a oil refinery in philadelphia. what is your reaction to that? >> well, of course, the president knows better than to attack a major sector of our economy. a private sector is merely pension funds and endowments and retirement funds and so forth coming together to make investments it is a large

investment group. in the president understands this. the attacks on me are obviously going to come from all different directions. that has to be one that is particularly poorly aimed. peter: let me ask you about bernanke. you would not appoint him to another term when his term expires in early 2014. one of your top economic advisers is suggesting to you that you do reappoint him for a third term. would you consider that? >> well, i always listen to people who have counsel and advice. my view has always been i would want to elect someone who is a new member. it should be a new person and that chairman position. someone who shares my economic views. , i thought was sympathetic to the needs of our nation. i want to make sure that the federal reserve focuses on

maintaining the monetary stability of a strong dollar and confident that america will not go down the road that other nations have gone down to their peril. peter: yesterday we heard from the fed that it is in fact considering additional stimulus moves, additional monetary policy easing, perhaps as early as this meeting next month. would you support that? >> i do not think qe2 was very effective. i think qe3 is not going to help this economy. i think that is the wrong way to go. i think it also sees the kind of potential for inflation down the road that would be harmful to the value of the dollar. and i think harmful to the stability that our nation needs. peter: you suggested you wanted your own person as the head of the fed. would glenn hubbard himself be a

candidate for chairman of the federal reserve and a romney administration? >> you know, i have not considered a single person at this point. given no names, any thought or deliberation. when the time comes to appoint a new fed chairman, why, i will give that a full analysis. i do not have anyone to write into that slate rainout or anyone to write out. of course, glenn is a wonderful economic advisor. likewise in excellent economic advisor. there are many across the nation i would like to consider. peter: we saw some news on tax reform and interest reduction from the republican party yesterday as it puts together its platform for the convention. you talk about potentially eliminating the mortgage reduction as part of tax reform for wealthier americans.

how to define "wealthy" americans. what would be the cut off for you? >> i have not said that we would eliminate, for instance, the home mortgage interest deduction. i do know for higher income americans, we will maintain the code. i am not looking for higher income people to pay a lower share of the total tax burden in the country. at the same time, i am going to make sure middle income families don't pay more in taxes and middle-class families don't pay a higher tax. in regards to making sure that is the case, there is no particular cut off. the top 1%, top 5%, top 10% just to look and see if we

inadvertently gave a big reduction. we need to take actions to ensure we do not change the productivity of the code. i am not looking to reduce taxes for wealthy people. i am looking instead to lower tax rates and limit deductions and exemptions in such a way we have enterprises, small businesses, able to keep more of their capital and at the same time simplify their code. peter: tropical storm isaac is gaining energy. will you let isaac tracy out of tampa? [laughter] i have no comment about isaac. i feel pretty good that we will

be in tampa and we will have a great convention. peter: governor mitt romney, thank you for joining us on fox business today. we will see you in tampa tonight thank you, peter. great to be with you. ashley: that was a great interview lasting some 12 minutes. he would appoint a new chairman of the federal reserve. what else stuck out for you? peter: that was one thing we wanted to ask him about. glenn hubbard did say that romney should reconsider that question and obviously governor romney has decided to reject that advice from his economic advisor hubbard who has been mentioned as a potential chairman of the fed in the romney administration. lori: peter, were you satisfied with governor romney's definition of who is wealthy? peter: no. [laughter] lori: he gave you a bit of a roundabout answer.

peter: he has been avoiding specifics, particularly the head of the fall campaign and debate. he does not want to give any ammo ahead. i think you will be asked that question quite a bit before november 6. lori: back to the energy policy, you asked about the keystone pipeline and then you followed up on it. why was it important if he had spoken with the canadian prime minister? peter: at least he or someone on his team may have reached out to the people he would have to work with in canada. i just wanted to see if we could break some news there. ashley: good effort. clearly he has not spoken to the canadians because i feel he would have told us that. good stuff, peter.

wealthy u.s. is not technically in a recession, it is not something americans from feeling that way. surprising result from the latest rasmussen survey. lori: the dow is down 120 points. there are some winners. we will show you some winners and losers on the s&p 500 as we head to break. back after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] the markets keep moving.

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are we down so much. he says because mitt romney just that he would not elect bernanke as fed chairman again and he does not think that qe3 would do any good. so that is the reason. looking at about 1% for the dow jones industrials. lori: that sums it right up. breaking news left and right. ashley: thank you very much. lori: let's talk about facebook now. sheryl sandberg launching -- what are they telling shareholders and are they buying it? charlie: they are telling something pretty interesting and it gets to the heart of why facebook is pretty feckless when it comes to this.

investors are not buying it. sheryl sandberg has had a meeting with at least one want alleged adult in the room. the person who kind of runs the company. mark zuckerberg thinks big thoughts and whatever. she had a meeting with one large institutional investor did you get to the heart of the problems with the ipo. it was also priced too high. obviously. it is down 50% since the ipo. i think it is below 20 as of right now. it is pretty scary decline and may go down further. why are they pressing so hard was the question she was asked? here is what she said. she is saying that, listen, we priced it hide because we did not want wall street traders to flip the stock and think a lot

of money at the open. what does that mean it's not you price it too low traders wait for the demand to go up as ipo progresses through the day. they do not want wall street to get a cheap and easy free ride on their stock and make a lot of money and now you have to ask yourself, why is that? there is really nothing wrong with it. that is a problem that they had. this is a silicon valley centered company that we do not want wall street to make money off of our back. the individual investor that she told this to basically shot back to her and said what is the difference between flippers making money and your d.c.'s cashing out and making the easy money? that is where she could not explain. there have been other meetings with other facebook officials. this is a company that has no

clue on how to be a public company. they need more than sheryl sandberg. lori: mark zuckerberg in over his head. charlie: it sound good to screw wall street. these are not traders who trade when ipo comes out and make a quick buck. when you price it too high, you do not just screw the flippers, you screw the small investors. they are average people. average people got into this stock. they priced it too high. the institutional investors knew it was too high so there was no floor on the stock and they gave it to the people that did not know better, the average joe, and they got screwed. i tell you, i do not think this company, this really hurts the market. small investors were not

necessarily in that capital. lori: especially since the ipo. thank you so much, charlie. always awesome reporting. ashley: the rasmussen reports. showing confidence on the decline. 64% of consumers think the united states is in a recession. joining us today scott rasmussen , president of rasmussen reports. scott, what i can tell from your data and you collected daily, you are seeing a trend downward in a absolutely. when we talk about investor confidence right now, it is down six points over the last week. down ten over the last three months. the only good news i can tell you about investor confidence overall is that it is not as bad as it was in 2009 and 2010. lori: scott, hi there. thank you for coming on. 64% of consumers say we are in

the recession. technically we are not. when you talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy and majority of people think we are already there and these are savvy investors, that is concerning the neck right. it is concerning. every single night for more than four years, coming up on close to five years now, majority of americans believe we are in a recession. they do not believe we are talking about a double dip. part of the reasons is the job crisis. part of the reason is what they see in the housing market. whatever it is, people have not believed we came out of the recession at all. i have never seen something like this carried on for so long. it is beginning to create a climate where people are saying it is no longer just a business cycle. ashley: against some of these other results here, scott, the

question are your personal finances getting better or worse these days is not some 49% of consumers think they are getting worse. 46% of investors. clearly, the mood is not optimistic. >> that is right. one of the indicators i look at very closely is the way people rate their own finances. right now 35% say they are in good shape. that is exactly the same they were on the day president obama took office. we are sort of in this low point. again, the mood is getting darker than it was earlier in 2012 by any measure. ashley: all right. fascinating stuff. scott rasmussen, thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. lori: they are not monthly rates. it is every single day. thanks again. the number of middle-class americans dropping over the last

40 years. is the lost middle-class is becoming more wealthy? lou dobbs will wait and. ashley: yes he will. let's take a look at the ten and 30 year treasuries as we head to break. the yield coming down again to basis points. we will be right back. ♪ ♪

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>> i am adam shapiro with their fox business brief. conveyors continue to call their way on wall street with the blue chip on their longest streak in three weeks. jobless claims, the federal reserve will provide swift stimulus action. right now the dow is down 123 points. qantas airways has canceled it $8.5 billion order for boeing b- after reporting its annual loss. it's the largest cancellation for the 787 program. following lengthy delays to roll out the fuel efficient aircraft. fixed mortgage rates climb. according to freddie mac, the average rate on a 30 year mortgage is now 3.66%. that is the latest from the fox business network. giving you the power to prosper. ♪

ashley: let's take a look at stocks for you. the dow is off 120 points. also looking at oil. oil down a buck 22 at $96. we've seen oil come down and seeing red across the board. nasdaq off 3 --/4 of a percent. lori: peter barnes interview with governor mitt romney and would replace ben bernanke and thinks qe3 would not be effective. ashley: qe3, forget it. lori: good chance that is affecting markets right now. are the middle class getting squeezed or getting wealthier? a new study by pew research center over the last 40 years the u.s. middle class has shrunk from 61 to 51% and wealthy risen from 14% to 20%. what is going on here? lou dobbs weighs in with his take.

are we getting richer or more poorer? >> the problem with a survey like this, lori, it doesn't take into account the fluidty and mobility of the american work place and workforce. it hints at it with a 4% increase in the lower income and a 5% increase in the higher income. ashley: yeah. >> but doesn't really get to the fact that typically we break these things into fifths quintiles. we watch their movement over the course after decade, in this case over 40 years. i would have much preferred to see something on mobility. the reality is this, the stark reality is this, net household income has fallen about 50%, just about 50% over the course of that time, really over 30 years. and that is something to be very concerned about but that is in large measure because of the 2008 financial crisis. the not as easy to explain is why wages have declined by 5% over the course of the past decade. that should be very

troubling to all. it is something that we've got to deal with. governor romney, by the way, i want to say this if i may. governor romney is saying exactly the right thing. this is a man speaking straightforwardly whether one agrees or doesn't agree. ashley: right. >> he has a choice to make with ben bernanke should he win. he is telling people precisely what he will do. he is telling people and investors precisely what he will do in terms of qe3, in terms of, his, to the degree that he can influence the direction of interest rates and easy money and the environment. this is a man talking seriously as a businessman, as potentially the chief executive of the country. i have to say, kudos to him for being straightforward. lori: i will say, if i can come in here with what peter, to echo peter barnes's sentiment, were you satisfied with romney's definition of wealth and who is wealthy? he quickly said no. there -- >> peter said no. lori: peter said he was not

satisfied. ashley: what is wealthy? governor romney said i look at one% and i look at 5%. what does that mean, i guess what peter's point was. >> to peter's point defining wealthy. let's be clear over the course of the five quintiles when we see upward mobility across our society we watch creation of wealth. when we see net household income rise it has less to do with income than it does with the amount of income that one can keep and build up over time. and, the degree to which the american people have faith that the next generation, their children, their grandchildren, will have better lives than they. for the first time in our country's history, people right now say they don't have the faith that their children will have better lives that is a demand and clear call for new leadership and in my judgment if ever there were one. ashley: right. >> this is not the america that we all have grown up in. and we certainly need to do

better by our children than to, to disappoint them, and further burden them with even more debt. which is precisely, i don't think we had a much clearer choice between two men for president in my lifetime. lori: thank you, lou. ashley: thank you very much. lori: join us back here tomorrow for another chat. of course as at 7:00 and 10:00 p.m. i love it when you get fired up. catch former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. >> speaking of fired up. lori: to talk about the race for the white house and on the campaign trail. >> thank you. ashley: bond yields dropping to the lowest level since early june after the fomc minutes revealed the fed may be willing to act and fairly soon. we've got moves to make ahead of the fed's meeting in jackson hole, wyoming next week. lori: let's look at some of the big winners and losers in an otherwise down market. the market is off 116 today. we have significant up side

movers. randgold is up. price of gold is up 2%. back with more after this.

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ashley: treasury prices rising on hopes the fed will print mo are money and my next guest thinks we will see the

stimulus as early as october. joining us january any capital chief income strategist. thanks for joining us. you are convinced the fed will open the spigot by october. going to say the economic data, while not anything to write home about is still improving but is it still weak enough to get the fed to take some action? >> i would agree with you there, particularly several weeks after the fed last met in early august. we've seen better pieces of economic data but there is one crucial component which appeared to be deteriorating, core inflation. core inflation is clearly on a downtrend right now and likely to remain so at least through the end of this year. that is the key metric the fed doesn't talk about all that much in the day-to-day data release that is driving decision making with potential qe. ashley: i read analysis view he said he could believe we're heading towards a bond bubble. he pointed the fact muni bond issuance up 70%

year-over-year but he believes that bubble could go on and on for a while. would you agree? >> i would not agree. let me take the first point about muni issuance or the analyst point. most of the muni issuance in 2012 to refinance old deals issued at higher cost. in reality there hasn't been new issuance. it is just replacing old debt. bond market extraordinarily tough to have a bubble exists, when a bond matures you know the terminal value. you can't have a tool of trends where with the things could be worth infinite amounts of money, when you look at bond market, fixed income, where do you like the most? what is the best, well, best option i guess for the investor right now? >> so in general, this is a concept we've been sort of putting out for a little over a year now, we like taking credit risk more than taking interest rate risk. which is to say we like corporate bonds and municipal sectors of the market more than the treasury and traditional safe haven areas of the market. you're simply paid better

for taking on additional risk at a time the world is relatively stable in terms of overall corporations credit quality. ashley: we're already out of time. guy, thanks for joining us. really appreciate it. >> thank you, ash. ashley: thank you. lori: much more of our exclusive interview with gop presidential hopeful mitt romney just ahead, including his thoughts on the fed, qe3 and the fiscal cliff. keep it here on fox business.

ashley: welcome back, everybody, i'm ashley webster. lori: i'm lori rothman. gop presidential hopeful mitt romney is not budging on bernanke. in a fox business, exclusive interview romney wants a new chairman of the federal reserve if he becomes president. that is despite the advice of his economic advisor glenn hubbard who says bernanke deserves another chance. we'll have much more of our

exclusive interview with governor romney just ahead. ashley: lots of interesting stuff to talk about there. so well, stocks posting some of the biggest losses of the week. the dow tumbling down 115 points at this moment. heading for its fourth down day. we're tracking the markets every move this hour. lori: stalled commerce on the mighty mississippi. dozens of ships are still stranded because of low water and drought conditions. with a live update from iowa ahead. stocks as we do every 15 minutes. down to the floor of the new york stock exchange with lauren simonetti. the dow is down 114 points. >> another down day. number four in a row. negative for the week indeed. we're continuing this downward trend. only one dow stock is higher, that is kraft. gaining half of 1% right now. we do have down arrows for the nasdaq and s&p 500 as well. the data today wasn't the best. jobless claims rose. new home sales came in solid but not enough to turn the market. overall theme at least what traders are talking about here, is that qe3 might not

be likely because the economy is not weak enough. back to you guys. lori: lauren, thank you. ashley: in an exclusive interview with fox business, republican presidential candidate mitt romney said if elected he would nominate a new chairman of the federal reserve. that is certainly not all he said. peter barnes talked with the governor just a few, about 20 minutes ago now, peter. it was a far-ranging interview and very interesting indeed. >> that's right, ashley. we wanted to clear up this question about ben bernanke and his future. not that ben bernanke is looking for a third term but governor romney hadn't indicated he would not want to reappoint chairman bernanke of the as you know there is precedent for multiple terms for fed chairman with gene gene, former fed chairman gene alan greenspan but economic advisor, glenn hubbard at columbia university urged him to reconsider. romney said, nah.

take a listen. you indicated you would not reappoint him to another term when his current term expires in early 2014 but one of your top economic advisors, glenn hubbard, is suggesting to you that you do reappoint him for a third term. would you consider that? >> well, i always listen to people who have counsel and advice. my view has been i want to select someone who was a new member, a excuse me a new person to that chairman's position, someone who shared my economic views. that i thought was sympathetic to the need of our nation. i want to make sure that the federal reserve focuses on maintaining the monetary stability that leads to a strong dollar, and confidence that america is not going to go down the road that other nations have gone gone down to their peril. >> yesterday we heard from the fed that it is in fact considering additional stimulus moves, additional

monetary policy easing, perhaps as early as its meeting next month. would you support that? >> you know, i don't think qe2 was terribly effective. i think a qe3, another federal stimulus is not going to help this economy. i think that is the wrong way to go. i think it also seeds the kind of potential for inflation down the road that would be harmful to the value of the dollar and you think harmful to the stability that our nation needs. >> so i asked him, well, you know, who might you appoint? glenn hubbard has been named in some quarters as a possible replacement for bernanke. and he said, well, i haven't really considered that. haven't given it any thought or deliberation at this point but he did say hubbard is a wonderful economic advisor. he went out of his way to praise greg mankiw, another advisor, economist from

harvard university. ashley and lori. ashley: he welcomes the advice but will not take it apparently in this case. lori: political response. surprise, surprise. ashley: peter, thanks very much. as republicans gather in tampa to officially nominate mitt romney as the republican nominee for president tropical storm isaac gaining strength in the caribbean and headed right toward florida. isaac expected to be upgraded to a hurricane tonight or tomorrow. if isaac remains on its path it may make one-two punch, one for the republican convention and the other for oil platforms in the gulf. isaac is kped you would to travel up the west side of the state, hitting the gulf coast late tuesday and wednesday. we're keeping an eye on isaac and we'll bring you developments as they occur. let's turn back to europe. angela merkel and francois holland meeting today. before they hope to persuade

europe's big powers to give greece breathing room, the response may not be cordial. joining me from germany, we have the economist from the cologne institute of economic research. by skype. thanks for joining us. you're critical the way the eurozone is carried on in the united states. you said it is questionable claims leading to overly skeptical conclusions but to be honest what we've seen out of the eurozone hasn't been that encouraging, has it? >> well which think indeed europe is selling undervalue in the u.s. currently. when you look at it closer into one of the most important issues which are the current account deficits and the periphery countries like spain, italy and portugal, you see a good bit of rebalancing already taking place. i think this is a very important point. italy says they have a

primary surplus and interest rates aren't too high currently if i compare it to the middle of the '90s. i think there is a lot of good news. of course there is some bad news but i think it is a bit biased in the u.s.. ashley: would you agree though that more fiscal union is needed if the eurozone project, the single currency, is to succeed? and will with, let me just follow that up with second part of that question, will the countries, individual member-states be willing to give up the kind of soverignty it may take to get the system to work? >> we don't think, we do need a much closer fiscal union. i think preparedness for this would not be there but we do not need it. we have done a lot of reforms here in europe. if you look at macroeconomics surveys since the fiscal compact and many other things. the institutional framework of the euro system has been strengthened a lot. and i think, it should have

been, it should be given time to see that we will see it working and what is more important is, that very many structural reforms in the southern countries of the euro are indeed producing what we want to see in the eurozone which is closer hom -- homogeity. with the reforms taking place they're becoming amenable to the euro. ashley: those reforms are absolutely steve he willing any economic expansion in greece, spain or italy. it is difficult to impose the economic measures applied bit eurozone. how do you get around of that? >> we have short term problems with growth. in the southern periphery countries. by i think it is important

to adjust the fiscal stance. you need structural fiscal reforms cutting budgets, improving, for instance, pension systems which do not bring down the economy in the short term. but you have to give these country as bit more time. this is what we are doing with spain currently and this is what is being discussed and i think it will also be implemented with greece. ashley: realisticly when you talk about greece, can repair ever repay the amount of money already been lent to it and is it inevitable that greece drops out of the eurozone? >> this of course is an open question and we're also not sure whether greece will stay in the eurozone but i politicalt we hear from arena is that i think greece will be helped in a way so it can stay in the eurozone and there are some ideas floating around that could lead to a much more

long-term health help or financial aid program for greece in exchange for much more control. we'll have to see how this develops, the troika report in mid-december will tell us more and we have to wait for this, but it is an open question, you're right about that. ashley: all right. thank you so much for joining us. 8:00, going on 8:00 in the evening in cologne, germany. lori: this jawboning by the european leaders are we tired of now? does it make a difference? ashley: he says the debate in the u.s. is unfair but to be honest i think it is fair. what we've seen and lack of coordination has been pretty stark and i think all he may disagree but --. lori: absolutely fair. look at the impact on our markets and interest rates. ashley: of course. lori: it is a global market and global economy. ashley: they need more integration. i still question whether european countries will go for it. the debate goes on and on and on. lori: and we're going on and on and on with you this afternoon. coming up a safe bet in solar. charles payne will bring us

one solar stock jumping nearly 5% today. will it continue to shine? ashley: american commerce artery is clogged. is that cholesterol? as the boats are trying to move through the sinking mississippi despite the low waters. as we do every day at this time we'll look how oil is moving. moving down, 96.43. down nearly 1% will hurricane or tropical storm isaac, soon to be hurricane isaac prove to be a problem for oil prices? we'll find out. we'll be right back. you know what i love about this country?

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lori: it is time to make some money with charles payne joining us this hour with a tech stock recommendation. >> i'm throwing a caveat up front. lori: no disclaimers. >> it is a solar play. ashley: oh. >> they do a lot of emitting diodes. nasdaq sign. led. lori: i had a visual. that helps. >> this is when you know a company is great and honest though. the last presentation to wall street said short-term solar is dirty word. in other words, listen, guys, we ain't making money on solar short term but they think they will be long term. ashley: they have been saying that about solar. >> i know. the key is there is a market for it. you can't ram it down people's throats. you shouldn't use taxpayer money but if you let the natural course -- they point out the fact it needs

another leap in the technology evolution. another leap. they think they're on the cusp of it. they reported numbers. 16 cents. street was looking 6 cents cents. that is huge beat, like 150%. a lot of things are down. this is $6 stocks and highs of 16 bucks. love the volume all. love the way it is acting. i throw a caveat. this is high-risk idea. billion dollar backlog. very little exposure of the backlog is to solar. they do other businesses. it might just be turning. might be at the bottom right now. lori: alternative energy, versus gosh we heard romney's plan to drill in the mid-atlantic. >> you know what guys? it is crazy for anyone who is against fossil fuels over the next 20 years, we need as much as possible to compete with russia, to compete with china, to compete with brazil. >> absolutely. >> you need power to power an economy that is growing. lori: we need to integrate. >> the solar stuff will come but will happen on its own. there is nothing the federal government can do to make it

happen to us. ashley: good discussion, charles, thank you. lori: as we do every 15. time to check the markets. lauren is on the floor for nicole these days. what do you have your eye on, lauren? >> hewlett-packard is the worst performer and has been all day on the dow jones industrial average, down about 8% right now and posted the worst loss in the company's 73 year history of nearly $9 billion. revenue fell. same store sales fell. pc business is a third of overall revenue and that is down by 10%. hp shares are crushed. ditto for dell. they were down yesterday, their pc business was down 14%. dell is down another 2.8% today. so really it is a rough road for pc-makers these days. they're waiting for windows refresh. tablet sales are strong. smartphone sales are strong. hard for h. and dell to figure out how to buy pcs, right? that's why the two stocks

are getting crushed today. lori: hewlett-packard and dell are old school tech names. ashley: they are. lori: characterize them that way? ashley: i would. i think these are going out obviously. lori: see you again in 15, lauren. coming up the coast guard is making progress clearing dozens of ships and barges from the drought-ravaged mississippi river. jeff flock is live from the scene. ashley: rolling, rolling on the river. no i'm not, clearly. take a look how the dollar is faring right now. we have the, mrs. merkel meeting with mr. hollande in berlin and so on. the dollar, have a look. down against the euro but up against the pound. we'll be right back.

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>> at 21 minutes past the hour i'm jamie colby, this is your fox news minute. puerto rico and virgin island bracing for torrential rains as tropical storm isaac whips up waves of high as 10 feet in the caribbean. it is packing winds of 40 miles an hour already. it is on track to take it to florida next week, just in time for the republican national convention. heavy rain is also causing problems in the southwest. there is a search resumed for missing las vegas teens. 17-year-old boy fell into a flood channel in henderson and quickly filled up after heavy rain.

phoenix driver and her disabled passenger had to be pulled from a van that became stranded in a flooded drainage wash. an indiana farmer whose cantaloupes are linked to a salmonella outbreak voluntarily ceased production. chamberlain stopped producing and selling melons after the fda alerted him to a possible health risk. two people have died and the fda is trying to track down the source of the problem. that is the news from the fox news network. back to ashley and lori. ashley: thank you very much, jamie in. authorities opening up the mississippi river to some ship traffic as the coast guard tries to clear barges backed up on the river. jeff flock has been on the story from the very beginning and in clinton, iowa, with more. jeff? >> just outside a archer daniels midland plant. look at all the barges. ashley, these are to be

loaded. these are box barges. they would hold grain. run down the line. you see how many have been lined up here. there were a lot lined up down to the south of the looks like that is beginning to clear. let's give you latest from greenville. tows traveling southbound trying to clear out the backlog, 38 waiting to go north. traffic goes up and down the river. northbound should open they tell us the coast guard in two or three hours. barges along here continue to go. we start to see activity here today. we hadn't seen any activity, very little activity in the last two or three days. that's because none of these barge captains wanted to take off and head toward a south part of the river they didn't know they could navigate. more activity and loading although the barges are still being loaded at low levels. they still have low water down there. they had a couple of grounding down by greenville. they don't want to get grounded again of the as i say all along here, this is archer daniels midland for a mile or so along this river.

you see that the facilities just go and go. they typically load all the time, transpour all the time but this low water level situation has really jeopardized that. they hope it is okay for the moment but i'll tell you, the army corps of engineers said yesterday, they think low water level could be the, the deal on the river probably until october. there you go. fun on the river. you don't have to load cargo. ashley: that's a long time of low water. the fast-moving jeff flock, he is flying down the mississippi but those barges aren't right now. jeff, thank you so much. appreciate it. lori: a warning this week by regulators. crowd funding topped the list of new investor scams. the capital-raising strategy lets investors take small steps in private startups over the internet. my next guest says it is a great opportunity to make money. joining me the founder and ceo of circle up. great to have you. >> thanks. lori: first tell me what

your company does. what does circle up do. >> they help connect small investors and private companies. lori: you represent the consumer companies and those are the props you brought. that are products think sell. how many companies you represent. >> we have 15 on the site and closed four deals last 3 1/2 months. lori: what does that mean that you closed deals? >> the companies met successfully the amount they were looking to raise. lori: how does this work in terms of, the sec raised flags about that. crowd funding. investor goes online and invests in company like you and you're sort of like the middleman for some of these companies, right? is it really, seems like a dark pool in a way? >> more the investor goes on to our site, find opportunity they want to invest in and invests in the business and receives equity in return. lori: does the investor get to specify which particular company he or she is most interested in. >> yes. lori: what is your role in that case? >> then we help connect them. we acts as a bulletin board where they find the opportunity, review

investment materials, sign legal documents online. lori: legal documents online. that is key, that is how you protect your investors? >> that is how they receive equity. there are a number of ways we help protect investors. more importantly we went through the process to partner with existing broker-dealer and do background checks and additional diligence. lori: what is typical investment and what is the likely return and over what time period? >> the average investment on our site is over $10,000. the average company is raising about $75,000. we have -- $750,000. we haven't been open long tough to talk about returns. we can point to the kaufman foundation returns. looked at seed investing by consumers. 3.6 times your money in 4.4%. lori: in this climate it is actually not too bad. what do you think about the allegations of fraud and the red flags being risen about fraud associated with crowd funding? fair? >> i think it is a very fair debate, i do. i think there is, it is right toncerns and for the sec to put in place

rules to protect both the investors and the companies. lori: and the companies that you're working with, how do they feel about getting their investment dollars this way v. -- via the internet? >> in this industry, consumer products. they are ecstatic. consumer 40% of the economy but. in other industry like tech it is less relevant. lori: interesting stuff. thank you, ryan. good luck to you. we'll check back into see how the returns are coming. >> thank you. ashley: we get to keep the goodies?. lori: i think so. i'm demanding. america's national debt fast approaching 16 trillion dollars. cue the clock. you how does it get so big and where does it go from here? gerri willis joins us next. ashley: a look at today's winners and losers. dow down 110 points. we do have some winners. first solar and federated

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♪ lori: welcome back. stocks are selling lower. the dow of 116 with 90 minutes to go until the close. down nearly 1%, headed for its fourth straight losing session. gop presidential candidate mitt romney says qe3 would do nothing to help the economy. in an exclusive interview with fox business, rodney also said he would appoint a new chairman to the federal reserve to replace ben bernanke. much more of our exclusive interview this afternoon. and knew home sales data rose more than three and a half percent last month in the latest bummer of hope for the housing market a 2-year high for wholesales said inmate. ashley: all right.

thirty minutes past the hour, laughter, let's get check on the markets as we get 15 minutes. the dow firmly in the red. >> reporter: down for a row. on joined by the senior vice president. you're telling me, you came in to work this morning thinking it would be pretty dull. then on he spoke. what do you make of that? >> it shows us what a schizophrenic market we are working in. pretty amazing to me. and did not think any of the economic it would move us out of the credit craze that we have been in for some time going back actually two or three weeks. all of a sudden mitt romney comes out, which i agree with. i don't think another round of cumulative anything for the broader economy because they've already pumps so much money into the economy and have not got the economic activity out of it. it is what economists call liquidity traps. the velocity money is in the care that i looked at quite frequently at its lowest level since 1958. that means the money is not getting into the economy. so back to your original

question. it's pretty amazing to me that when mitt romney speaks to people were listening. some credibility to what they think he could actually when november. >> reporter: the summer heat up, this multiple, if you will, six weeks of gains would probably break that streak. up on a question for you would be, when we get back to normal volume? >> i think it will see an uptick in volume when people come back from labor day and mr. to focus on the broader global events, but i don't think we're going to get back to any normal volume level until at least after the election and some clarity on what the policy issues will be. and we can assess from there. >> reporter: thank you so much for coming on. the. ashley: thank you. but check back in 15 minutes. low-volume through the presidential election. lori: will see if things pick up. ashley: and early september. lori: a lot of important events still ahead. don't write off the summer. well, the next big milestone for our nation's economy is not the fiscal plan for the election.

in fact, our national debt will hit $16 trillion. gerri willis is watching that. ashley: look at that. lori: i mean, how did we come so far so fast? gerri: you know, this number is so hard to tell people what it means. really, $16 trillion? what does that mean and how did we get there? we spent too much money and we don't pay enough for what we do with the federal government. let me try to put this into some perspective. ashley: please. lori: as this summer the last three months alone we spent something like $17 billion, monday we racked up over and above the money the government is making and what could have done with that? you could have bought and built tent space shuttles. or you could have bought the tom sullivan. all of them, most valuable sports franchises including the yankees. just to give you an idea, this is just this summer alone. we made a comparison recently on our show. four years ago in august 2008

the national debt stood at 96 trillion. this hill it goes up so far so fast. it's like your credit card. you get a little debt. 66 percent higher. 6 trillion additional dollars down the drain. so easy to write it up. so tough to bring it down. even the ryan plan, which was so aggressive. it just lowering the rate of the increase. it doesn't actually cut that number. gerri: your share of this, $50,000. pony up. we need some more doe for the federal government. ashley: per person. lori: that's more than most of us make a year. that's astronomical. i wish. these issues tonight at six and 9:00 p.m. gerri: actually, just 6:00 because it is thursday after all. we look forward to it. you have a great time.

join us then. ashley: thank you. tonight at 6:00 p.m. not at 9:00 p.m. lori: stossel will take over at 9:00 p.m. ashley: there you go. lori: copper prices rising again, but some are skeptical that gains can hold copper as a bellwether for the economy. one medical expert tells us why he is still bullish. ashley: all right. first, as we do every day -- lori: are you knocking me? ashley: no. you were very excited. let's take a look at the ten and 30 year treasurys. lori: interest rates. ashley: you love interest rates. down two basis points. lori: stocks are selling off some people are stepping up security because the economy, the debt that it was dismal. poor to buy back with more after this. copd makes it hard to breathe,

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ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. ♪ >> i'm adam shapiro with your fox business brief. another tough day for the market. expectations for a twisted -- swept stimulus action from the federal reserve begins to fade. the dow is on track for its longest losing streak in three weeks and right now is down triple digits, roughly 116 points. jobless claims unexpectedly rose last week assigned to the labor market recovery remains modest and uneven. 4,000 more american applied for first-time benefits bring in the zeroth 372,000. and facing some major static from the federal trade commission. the sec filed a lawsuit against that satellite tv company for allegedly calling millions of

people who ask to be left alone. the agency says those calls violated telemarketing rules that allow consumers to put themselves on the do not call registry. that is the latest from the fox business network, giving you the power to prosper. ♪

♪ lori: interesting trade in oil today. crude reversing earlier gains is ending the day down. oil settling in and $6.27, this with isaac threatening the gulf coast. we also heard this afternoon for mitt romney who laid out his energy plan. he wants to drill in the mid-atlantic states. ashley: carolina's. lori: illegal. very interesting play. ashley: well, talking of commodities, copper hitting a 1-month high for a third day on hopes there will be more stimulus in the u.s. and china and boost demand for metals. my next guest is bullish on

copper, even without any new measures. joining me now, managing director. thank you for being here. it seems to me that the chance for stimulus in the u.s. may have just dropped a little bit because of the economic data sets those federal minutes or released. a little more encouraging, but you believe that more stimulus is on the way. >> at think as far as copper is concerned we will be focused on china and china as the world's largest consumer of copper, 40 percent of global demand. it is really about china and the stimulus china puts in a global market that really counts. there is a belief that the economic data has shown a big slowdown in china, so you are fairly confident that the chinese government will put in more monetary easing and they have already allocated their spending over structure for the year, and it is a vast amount of money. already have a place -- they have to play a serious catch up. according to the numbers they spend less than half on number -- copper pbgc that being spent

throughout the year. ashley: government agencies need to spend the money allocated essentially is what you're saying. >> absolutely. it is a political football of the dow. so much so that they get the motion if they don't spend it. be a scene that spending surge of the end of the year. ashley: copper prices have dropped 12% down from its peak in february. rtc. a good grasp there. amelya along for awhile. >> looking for the end of the year. seasonably we see the local governments. really the last two months of the year we see that being heavily allocated. in the meantime, copper as a breakout. fairly hefty. ashley: you're a contrarian. there is a global slowdown. >> and you look. so that worries a lot of people about the general chinese economy, but if we look at the

numbers alone we see the infrastructure, 40 percent of copper demand should do the trick. ashley: sometimes the worst the numbers and data at the more chance for monetary easing. thank you. let's talk about platinum. a lot of eyes and attention on what is going on in south africa. a major platinum producer, of course. we have had a lot of unrest. what is that done to platinum prices? >> we have seen a surge. it has broken out dramatically. a lot of interest in the community, and technically it has taken off. i think the real risk is if the unrest spread to some of the bigger mines. we're already seeing signs of tension between the labor unions and the bigger mines. ashley: the biggest consumer of platinum. >> well, it is the car companies, the catalytic converters. mostly goes into diesel engines in europe. fairly -- the situation in europe that has been fairly conservative, so it is the supply side driving prices here.

ashley: if we see that unrest spread we could see prices going up on consumer goods ultimately. >> that is different the arrest. ashley: good stuff. thank you for joining us. lori: let's get some more info from our friend as we do every 15 minutes back down to the floor of the new york stock exchange. the dow of force levels, but still. >> reporter: up pretty bad day once again for stockmarkets. were going to talk about the material sector today. this was your best performing sector yesterday up nearly one full percentage. now it's the worst performing sector. one of the reasons would be a company called alcoa, the fourth worst performer on the dow up two 1/4%. pacing declines among material stocks. lots of other names popping up as being big losers today. u.s. steel, a national resources. this year out, has not done so badly. you can see the year to date chart is not as bad as the chart for today.

alcoa, definitely one of the big losers among other stocks on the day when the negative across the devastating tryout could affect prices. how to invest around what's going on in the midwest. ashley: all right. first among some of today's winners and losers. the dow still down triple digits , but trying to make a little bit of a comeback. here are some of the winners. of more than 1 percent today. we'll be right back. ♪ [ heart beating, monitor beeping ] woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ]

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♪ lori: the fiscal cliff front and center. gop presidential candidate mitt romney spoke exclusively with fox business network just about an hour or so ago. >> the immediate thing that needs to be done, is the president, as the leader of the nation, missed a call to the congress and make sure we do not have the kind of cliff that is being described. the estimates are that as much as a 2 percent reduction and gdp might occur if we go through the tax armageddon as they call it that the president has scheduled for the first of the year. we should, instead, put in place a holding timeframe, you're so, at least six months to allow the next president, whether obama or myself to put in place a spending plan, tax plan that makes sense. lori: the wheels are coming off. ashley: that was mitt romney speaking exclusively ted fox business. it really was of far ranging interview.

good stuff. gold getting a 4-month high and renewed hopes for further fed stimulus. $16,703 per troy ounce. sandra smith is here with all the details. >> reporter: actually very fascinating because gold went off of everybody's radar for a while because it went back below $1,600 an ounce. firmly above that level at 1672, up $302 this session, a gain of 2%. it is gone up six of the last seven trading days. professional traders like to look at that moment to. here is a bigger picture. year-to-date gold prices up 5%. important to keep in mind that if the branch this out one year we are still about 13 percent off of that record high of 1888 an ounce that we saw back in august of 2011. that is what is leading to a goldman, barclays, the 1700 or above by the end of the year. the trades, these gold stocks that a lot of analysts point out

are underperforming the metal itself. one area i want to show you. we just learned that john -- george soros and john paulson put a bunch of dough into the gold etf. underperforming gold prices. year-to-date chart. the trade would be to go into this. as part of the reason gold is going up. a record amount of holdings, a record amount of money is now sitting in the gold etf. this buys the gold, take it off of the market and physically stores it which in itself pushes up the price of gold. so the gold stocks have not quite kept up with the rise that we have seen in gold prices. ashley: 1700 by the end of the year. we will see. lori: you made a great point. it was off the radar for a little bit. not anymore. u.s. drug monitor, 51 percent of the u.s. corn crop is facing extreme or exceptional dry conditions, up two percentage points from just a week ago. what does this mean for investors in agriculture? joining me now is the ceo of

index iq. good to have you. >> thanks for having me. lori: what is your strategy? you look at the drought, this hurricane, hurricane isaac coming in and oil prices. just agriculture. let's start there. >> it is a scary situation. the drought now, the drought last year, the freeze last year, and a very unpleasant supply and demand equation with the rising middle class in emerging-market, rising population and a reduction in farm land. investors need to be looking at agrobusiness stock to not make money but insulate their portfolio. lori: these devastating stories. the corn crop and how it relates to the feeder cattle we saw jeff flock on the mississippi and the lowering levels and affecting that industry as well. so you want to be sensitive. to you see these types of investments rising because of these troubles? >> absolutely. the futures that are based on those crops have already come up. they have come up around

20 percent led by surging grain prices. it's already a bull market. the agribusiness talks are delayed and already moving up because it takes a little time for those prices to get through their supply chain and hit the consumer. lori: is it too late to get and how much higher do you think he's going? >> actually, now is the time you want to be getting into the agrobusiness stock because the move is just starting and can go quite a bit higher. lori: you recommend etf. >> well, a very efficient way to invest in a lot of different sectors. i have my favorites. lori: go on. >> crop. crop. easy to understand. the only way to get access to pure price small-cap agribusiness stocks around the world. a very efficient way to gain access and also to drive for a new portfolio. lori: interest in that etf in cr0 as well as qai. >> now you want to be hedging your portfolio because of all the uncertainty. hedge fund-like etf is that are

designed to dampen portfolio volatility while retaining upside potential. lori: recommendations against the backdrop of all this other risk. you believe there are important areas to remain bullish on to ride out all of these waves. >> you need to be cautious because of the macro overhang, but you need to remain invested because you might miss the upside which is very difficult to make up. lori: madcap emerging markets was also on your list. air in the midst of a global slowdown. >> absolutely. emer is the only one in the market for madcap emerging-market stocks. place on the u.s. and your. you want stocks that are capitalizing on the home economies of the emerging markets. those are growing very robustly if not as quickly as before. lori: still outpacing? >> absolutely. people are moving back in. lori: and want to get your take on the introduction. the small-cap oil etf. to you think that this hurricane or whenever it becomes, the

storm could actually give us a quick and dirty increase? >> already happening. already moving up and you have the unsettled and the middle east. i mean, whenever something like that happens you see an increase in oil prices. small-cap equities are the best with a play that. lori: interesting that you choose that asset class. >> thank you for having me. ashley: all right. always the most simple ideas that make use a white knight think of that. coffee, soda, sticky fingers, crumbs. it can handle them all. submergible and water, believe not. equipped with drainage holes. you can't put it in the dishwasher. the new keyboard will be available for sale in the u.s. letter this month. the cost, just $40. lori: that's pretty cute. lori: ashley: it would be an ugly mess. ashley: i'm still a fan of

compressed air. everything. interesting. ashley: ideas. all night. guess what. liz will be taking as did the last hour of trading. the portfolio manager will join her in a fox business exclusive. fixed income. countdown to a closing bell is next. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios

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♪ liz: good afternoon, everybody. i'm liz claman. it is the last hour of trade, last hour to make money in the u.s. stock market today. the major indexes in the red to now -- right now. investors are handicapping the chances that the federal reserve will take further action to help the u.s. economy. one fed official saying today that more stimulus is hardly a sure thing, but if you're looking to take your cues from somewhere to moloch's gold.