what would happen? 94% of people believe that some sort of undesirable behavior will occur at a conference. all right, that's all we have for tonight. we will see tomorrow. "the willis report" is next. thank you to ashley and carol. good night. gerri: tonight, the epa puts on the pressure to drop the ethanol mandate for gasoline. we have the latest on how this may affect gas prices. some on the left say the problem of voter fraud is overblown. we have the facts you need to know. welcome to "the willis report." >> hello, everybody, i am gerri willis. the national debt on ticking

closer to $60 billion. by the time the show was over, we will add $133 million to our deeper hole. some economists say the best way to dig ourselves out is more stimulus. joining me now is richard duncan, author of the book, 10 q., and stephen walter. you say that a new great depression is on the horizon. why are we at the printer jammed? >> welcome i think we have never been off the brink. the group in 1964, 250 cholla dollars in 2007. this created a great deal prosperity. but in 2008 come it couldn't be repaired. and now the credit begins to contract. there is a danger that we will collapse into a depression.

>> do you agree? is there too much credit as and is it causing a problem for the economy? >> there certainly was in 2008. i totally agree with that. but i think most of it has been drained out of the system. right now, the problem is just the opposite. it is really difficult for small businesses to get loans to expand their businesses. but i am actually not a pessimist. i actually think that we are very close to a big boom in the economy. if you do tax reform next year or something like entitlement reform that you can could get the economy growing at four or 5%. very capable to do. gerri: two totally different views of the economy and where we are going. richard, you said that if we stopped spending and you say that austerity brings class. >> well, we have a 16 trillion-dollar economy. the budget deficit is about $1.3 trillion. if you balance the budget,

immediately our economy shrinks to $14.7 trillion. if the government spends a chilly in dollars less, millions of americans will lose their jobs, consumption will collapse. we will fall into depression. it is only the government life-support, these trillion dollar budget deficits that are keeping us from collapse. gerri: what you think? >> i think just the opposite. it is holding back the economy. we had a huge experiment, gerri come over the last three years. maybe the most expensive experiment in the world. in keynesian economics. the idea that that stimulates the economy. it certainly did not work very well in 2009, 2010, or 2011. by the way, nobody is talking about balancing the budget in one to four years. it will take a long time to undo the damage we have done. where i think you are wrong on the arithmetic is if we get this

economy growing like i'm talking about, or 5%, we are going to get a lot of new revenue sent. this is what happened in the 80s and 90s. the way we balance the budget, we have so much growth. we created a tidal wave of tax receipts. >> we should follow the example of president reagan. president reagan erratically increased military spending. that caused the country's debt to increase by 188%. he interested in the military very aggressively. it now gives us global military dominance. it is time to apply this basic government investment strategy and apply to american industry and american power generation. if we do, we will have dominance in those areas as well. gerri: you talked before about solar energy and the importance of that. obama has been in office, he has spent some hundred some billion dollars on energy with mixed results. stephen, isn't spending? government spending that we need? is a dickensian push, you know, on some kind of big federal

thing? more spending on military, will disclose out a recession. >> don't forget that we cut the tax rate back in the 80s from 70% to 20%. it is a huge private sector supply-side expansion that explains what happened in the 80s. it is true that big military buildup was financed by debt. but it was a pretty good investment in the long term. it led to new technologies. but because of a lemonade illuminated the enormous breadth of the. gerri: has grown tyrannically already. why would more money make it better? >> had we not had the stimulus,

we would've collapsed into a 1930s style depression. it has been affected. i'm not talking about stimulus. i'm talking about aggressive investments red we have once in history opportunity for our government to borrow trillions of dollars at 1.8% interest. if we borrow this and invest in transformative technologies like solar, nano tech, genetic engineering and biotech, the united states will have an unassailable lead in the 21st 2t 21st century industries, and we can lock in. gerri: are you talking about what president obama did when he picked winners and losers? >> i'm talking about the manhattan project. but the geniuses in mexico and threw money at them and they created a miracle weapon that won the war in the pacific. gerri: steve, you have the last word. >> i do just don't think that works very well. there has never been an example of industrial example of bring the greatest minds together works very well. i want them as far away from washington is possible.

gerri: they already are, steve, they already are my friend. >> you are in oklahoma city and richard is right beside me. thank you both so much. now, we want to know what you think. here's our question tonight. are you better off than you were $5 trillion ago? blog onto gerriwillis.com, vote on the right-hand side of the screen. i will share the results of the end of the show. coming up next, we pose the question to a political expert, rich lowry. in why many of the country says no and what it would take for them to feel good again. how much is president obama to blame? that is coming up next everyone has goals.

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gerri: president obama promised hope and change into custody. according to a new poll, voters in swing states are feeling little of either. the majority say they are not better off than they were four years ago. with more on this is rich lowry with the national review. here is what the voters said. 56% and 10% said we are not better off. the rest of the we are better off. >> the numbers are a little worse than they were a year or so ago. this is just a fundamental driver of the election. it is what is pushing the obama campaign into the strategy they have had all year, which is they can't run america again -- instead, they have to destroy with a capital gentry and make mitt romney look with a radioactive full. gerri: the unemployment rate

come you think it would reflect the president -- the president is still leading 47 to 44. why is that? >> it is a close race. they like president obama. they cut him a break because as paul ryan says, he did legitimately inherit an awful situation. he is getting graded on a curve there. what he needs is a great to be just high enough on a curve and make mitt romney unacceptable. >> is the problem that rummy has impressed his case in a? >> yes, i think a lot of the polls show people are very dissatisfied by the economy, but they don't believe either guy can make a difference. that is very corrosive to the romney campaign. that is why i think that the paul ryan chick is so important. it will help carry the argument forward on mitt romney's part. gerri: let's talk about paul

ryan for a second. juan williams saying it was the worst possible situation, if you had to pick somebody come it shouldn't be ryan. because now you have to make the case for the conservative view of medicare. would you say that? >> a couple of things. first, i was down in virginia at the end of last week. 2000 people jammed into this gym intertel county in virginia. the crowd and overflow is actually pretty good. he would not gotten that kind of enthusiasm if romney had gone with a safer pick. medicare was going to be litigated in one way or the other. mitt romney, on his own, has endorsed premium support. they're probably going to do a little later. now, just litigating it earlier, and i think that paul ryan helped romney go on the offense on medicare, which i think is the best possible defense. gerri: a new e-book out today talking about the discord in the campaign. is it a little early for that,

do you think? >> it doesn't surprise me. when they were running in 2008, they were running against a party whose incumbent president was leaving office with approval ratings in the '30s. in the midst of a massive financial crisis. if you are a team running a campaign, you are inherently geniuses. he also had exactly the right theme, hope and change. that energize and infuse the whole effort. this is just trench warfare to destroy a guy. that is not so much fun. >> do think that a american voters look at this race and get turned off by it? because we have a ton of campaign ads coming on tv this fall. do you think people will just burn out? >> a lot of the swing voters don't pay attention until a few key moments. the big moments are the conventions and presidential debates, and there are a lot of

voters who matter a lot in swing states who are just going to form a few key impressions from those debates. gerri: rich lowry, thank you so much for coming on. we appreciate you coming on. coming up, the blame game is on between president obama and mitt romney. that coming up after the break ♪ the one and only, cheerios with the fidelity stock screener, you can try strategies from independent experts and see wh criteria they use. such as a 5% yield on dividend-paying stocks.

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or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing, ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. gerri: mitt romney is accusing the president of distorting his position on medicare. i will break it down and 67 seconds

>> president obama is saying it will cost $64,000 per year more for health care. >> it was estimated that governor romney's running mate, his original plan would force seniors to pay an extra $6400 per year. gerri: but as wall street journal says this morning, no. the president's claim is based on the congressional budget office estimates of the gap between the cost of health care a decade from now and 2022, and the house budgets premium sports subsidy for a typical 65-year-old in 2022. premiums in the out-of-pocket cost with the singer might face

bashed this report is old. in the meantime, paul ryan has rewritten his plan, changed his assumptions. maybe when more moderate. in a more up-to-date report, cbs says it really doesn't have the capability to estimate the plan. no kidding. it is nearly impossible because ryan's plan would introduce a wildcard -- the free market. seniors would have the option of choosing private insurance to carry their health coverage. this would drive costs lower. how do we know? that is exactly what happened in medicare advantage on the drug plan the president george w. bush put in place. this all happened before when obamacare was being practiced. the cost should drop from productivity gains in the health care industry, that would naturally occur over time. but centers for medicare and medicaid services recently said no.

health care costs are dominated by labor costs. specialists, doctors, nurses you have to pay. it is hard to get productivity gains on the floor. go back to econ 101. negligible lead content levels on average. that is from the title government. this is just a magical thinking that occurs in washington where people are focused on bureaucratic solution but have no experience with the private sector. by the way, cms also projects that by 2016, obamacare will result in 15% of all health care institutions. i am talking hospitals, nursing facilities and the like. becoming unprofitable. by 2030, that proportion reaches 25%. by 2050, it is 40%. can you imagine that? those, my friends, are the kinds of statistics that you look up and not make out. if you are fired up about this or any issues on the program, drop me an e-mail at

gerri@foxbussiness.com. >> coming up on "the willis report", you need a photo id to even cash a check or why or why is showing id at the polls such a big idea? the american spectator joins us for his take is the voter id argument continues. and this labor day weekend, pain at the pump is expected to rise. we will break down the details. also, there is a whole new world out there for investors. when it comes to dividend stocks. are these good investment right now? the expert we have ways and next on "the willis report."

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gerri: civil rights groups are appealing a recent ruling in pennsylvania. upholding the state's controversial voter id law. they claim it will stop over a million voters in the

battleground state from voting. they also say that the whole idea of voter fraud is a nonissue, because so few cases ever get uncovered. joining me now is john fund, and the author of the new book, "who's counting." >> it used to be until a few years ago, philadelphia had more registered voters than they had adults over the age of 18. we call that a clue. it's the one that might give you a clue that something is wrong. >> in the 1990s, the election was thrown out by a federal judge. al schmitt, a city election commissioner, issued a report on the city that he sampled on hundreds of irregularities. yes, there is a problem. gerri: that was something like a 27 page report of county double

voting voter impersonation and voting by noncitizens. as well as ineligible voters. >> pittsburgh has the had the same problem. detroit, milwaukee, st. louis, order places in texas. there are lots of places where the tradition is that dead people the people may vote, but that doesn't mean that they lead politics. the pew research center found that 2 million people are voting even though they are dead. i believe we should honor our dead, but not representation without respiration. gerri: yes, i agree. let's talk about these complaints from civil rights groups. there is really an effort to disenfranchise blacks in this country and possibly poor americans. and keep them from getting to the polls. is this true or false? >> many african-american leaders to support voter id.

65% of the "washington post" poll this month support voter id. the left, when critics will say, 25% of african-americans lacking proper id. does anyone believe that? that is just poppycock. it's really patronizing. here is what pennsylvania's law day. you have several ideas that you can use. you can use a government issued id from the dmv. you can use a passport, military id, student id. if you don't have any of those -- you go to the polls and you can vote a provisional ballot and within six days you have to send in your proof of id by mail or by fax or in person. okay. gerri: what if i can't afford to mail that? >> guesswork when i sign an affidavit to say that i'm too poor to get an id and they will still count your vote. you can always vote absentee. so the judge who rules pennsylvania's washington that thrown out. because you can't find anybody who can be disenfranchise. gerri: i've read that it is a quarter of the voters who don't have an idea. >> or is the bottom line.

what they spend a small fraction of that getting ids and solve the problem. instead, they're spending it on lawyers. gerri: a quote from someone in pennsylvania -- the voter id card will allow governor romney to win the state of pennsylvania. that is done. >> philadelphia is going to -- it's going to redo some democratic votes. so that part -- announcing that are part isn't taking some considerations here. in kentucky, they don't buy your vote with dollars. if either with urban. gerri: that is not such a bad thing. well, it's interesting that you say that. and looking at your story on pennsylvania, you basically

outline how republicans control this for a long time. now, the democrats are controlling and. >> i don't think any one party is more honest than the other. one has an opportunity to cheat more. they used to steal votes. but the machines that are left, chicago, philadelphia, detroit -- those are democratic machines. the biggest victims of voter fraud are minority performers who want better public schools and services. they constantly see their hopes squashed because when they run reform candidates against the machine, the elections are stolen from under them. gerri: 74% of americans say yes, we support voter id. you are in the majority, my friend. good to see you, john fund red coming up, gas prices continue record climb. and california continues to struggle financially. more bankruptcy on the way.

gerri: citibank raising concern.

we are talking about california, of course. three in california bankruptcies, dozens of those cities in that state. cities are facing serious financial distress things to a booming real estate market and lack of state oversight. joining me now is tim cavanaugh, and former editor of the l.a. times. it is great to have you here. it is like an epidemic out there in california. what is going on. why are all these cities going bust? >> because of their pension obligations. it is a familiar story that got a lot of attention in 2010. a little less than 2011, unfortunately. we have all of these cities, they are on the hook for paying for pension and health benefits for state and public employers more generally. that is across the board. teachers and etc. the one here is what movies had to say. the risk bonbons there is

rising. additional negative rating actions also possible for individual cities. what is this going to mean for california, and also for investors? >> it could mean a lot of things. california, i don't think you are seeing the last of them. these are not small cities. they are fairly large cities. it is also happening in small towns in california, too. also, unfortunately come in the state has been moving to make it harder for cities to declare bankruptcy. it would make it harder to discharge pensions and other debts to public workers in a bankruptcy filing. there is a lot of jurisprudence on a cornerback. it is hard to get out of it. those are the deaths are really crushing all of these cities and many other states. gerri: tom grassley, the california treasurer spokesman said this to say. there is the notion that there

is a willingness to step bondholders. it's not accurate. nobody wants to have the reputation. it closes the mark you for a long time. i guess that is true. on the other hand, if you are the poor guy who has raised taxes on a bunch of the people in your city, you just may not want to go down that road. >> yes, this is one of those things that we have nothing to fear, really. bankruptcy is a long recognize an honorable -- recognized way to get out of the crush of situation. gerri: we are talking about california, my friend he met donald trump is not a californian. the problem at hand -- we are seeing the same thing in scranton, pennsylvania, edging towards vagrancy, jefferson county, alabama, a landmark court case over it.

only 24 states allow cities to go bankrupt at all. interestingly enough, another rating agency has stopped drawing a distinction between states that illegally allow municipal bankruptcy and those who do not. one way or the other, you have to go bankrupt, it's going to happen. >> you are absolutely right. the truth is that it's happening all over the country and now we are starting to see the real picture of what is going on. those involved are reporting that there is actually a lot of the serious financial problems flying under the radar. take a look at this. this is a federal reserve report. the bank of new york. literally thousands of municipalities having real troubles here. when you make of that? at the end of the day cometh, do you think we will be over to overcome this anytime soon? without some kind of major change in a funding mechanism for the cities and townships and states? >> well, i worry about the major

changes. jefferson county, alabama, suing to restore a local tax that they say will get them back into balance. california has just come in the beginning of the new fiscal year, it is short by tens of millions of dollars in how much it is collection in taxes. so i don't think that raising taxes is going to get us out of this. we will leave aside the question of honor for a minute and say that bankruptcy is the best way out. gerri: i don't know about that. >> i think you should pay your debt. i think that some of these agreements with unions should be renegotiated. you can't retire at 50 with 90% of your pay. come on red nobody in the private sector does not. >> if you want to renegotiate the contracts, bankruptcy is the only way to do it. even bankruptcy might not work because of the way the laws are written. these are very tough contracts

that we have. >> we will find a way. tim, thank you for coming on tonight. >> also today from another distinction for the state of california. they're probably not too proud of that. the golden state is also the worst state to get a loan and. what are the best credit states? tonight's top five. number five is iowa. thanks to an unemployment rate that is under 5%. number four is montana. number three is south dakota. the state has an unemployment rate under 4.5%. can you imagine? plus, it has better than average credit scores. number two is vermont. this state was the second-best in the country when it comes to personal bankruptcies and foreclosures. and the number one state for credit, go to north dakota. the state frequently tops the list of beth in 10 best states red rate there is only 3%.

>> interesting stuff. some good news on gas prices. the price at the pump slipped actions of a penny to an average of $3.72 per gallon nationwide. prices still 26 cents higher than they were a month ago. they won't come down until at least after labor day as the summer season draws to a close. joining me now is the author of that report. avery, telling how high these prices will get by labor day? >> we make these prices rise a little bit further as we get closer to labor day. as you mentioned, today was the first time we saw a decline overnight in august. in some ways we will expect the prices remain relatively flat over labor day. we might pull back after that. gerri: that would be big news. it is interesting to watch these prices because it is unseasonable for them to go up at this time year. typically they do not. what accounts for that? >> you are correct. we have seen prices increase --

we have actually seen a series of refinery disruptions. first, in the midwest at the end of july, and now in california with the richmond refinery, which is raising prices on the west coast. underneath all of this, we have seen global crude oil prices, rising prices with crude oil at. gerri: refineries, they are not increasing, they are actually going down. is that why we are having so much problems? >> over the last month, we have seen refinery issues and pipeline issues. first, in the midwest, then on the west coast. that has meant that motorists in those regions have seen significantly higher prices at the pump. underneath all of this is the rising price of crude oil on the global market as well.

gerri: absolutely. the president is talking about opening up the strategic petroleum reserve. would that make a big difference? >> we have seen that opening this up can have a temper impact on price at the pump. aaa -- the creation of strategic petroleum reserve was an emergency peace in place, should there be an actual disruptions in supply. what we are seeing here, we are seeing prices move higher, as i mentioned, some refinery distributions. this is not an issue of supply or distribution being disrupted. this juncture would not be an appropriate use of the strategic oil reserve. >> the one i want to also ask about ethanol. federal government disaster for public comment on getting rid of this at the mobile crime and. what would happen if the federal government will back its support of no? >> you know, i think the impact of this -- we have certainly

heard a lot about ethanol and prices rising in the midwest and west on. it contains about 10% ethanol, gasoline sold in the midwest. ethanol prices of the last several months, that translates to about a three or 4-cent increase in the overall price at the pump. when you are talking about prices that have risen to $3.72 now, nearly 40 cents, only about three or 4 cents of that is actually due to increased ethanol prices. gerri: to the minimal impact is at best. still to come, my "two cents more" it and apple store are becoming the biggest company ever. should you make your decision based on dividends? devices coming up after the break

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gerri: tech stocks. should they be a major factor in your money move

gerri: apple is now the world's most valuable company ever. surging in stock, propelling the company to over $620 billion. beating the record set by microsoft back in the '90s. however, that number does not account for inflation. apple shareholders have reason to celebrate. optimism surrounding the impending iphone five and the new smaller ipod. >> interesting stuff. in focus tonight, getting paid to invest. what s&p 500 companies paying

dividends now than in any other point in the past 13 years. it is not just the old stodgy industrial stocks that opinion. tech stocks like apple or giving investors back some of their money. gary, it seems that everybody's new favorite thing to play, make sure that you buy the dividends. why is that? >> well, it gives you a stream of income and it takes away a little bit of the rest. which is realizing that most dividends are paying two and 3% if something drops 20%, you are losing a lot. be careful regardless of the dividends. gerri: have tech company operators enforcing playing this game? >> i think that a lot of these bigger tech companies were buying back their own sure throughout 2000. and they were getting creamed on it and wasting their own money. and they then they realized that they could do something better. there is a clamoring from investors.

you've heard the buzz. first off with microsoft coming out, then intel, and i expect more to show up. once you start doing it, the rest usually follow suit the one usually when you see a dividend paying stock you have certain expectations of the performance over time. you can't play that game with tech stocks continue? >> i think overall you can't. but in the case of some of the mega-names, you can. microsoft, cisco, they almost read like utility stocks. that is because gargantuan companies with a lot of shares outstanding. so yes, i think with those. but with apple, that is a little bit on the crazy side, you have to be a little bit more careful with things like that to 14% of tech stocks in the s&p 500 are paying dividends today. those dividends tend to be an

average of, 2.02%, compared to the s&p 5002.54%. they are not paying quite as much as the overall s&p. they are doing pretty well. is this going to be sustainable, will or will this turn out to be that? >> i think it will be sustainable. realize that they won't investors. in the past and they were not able to do so. the same thing goes for big pensions and things like that it cannot find something that have no dividends. there is a method to the madness here. and it is somewhat working. 3.4% -- if you buy into intel right now, pretty good compared to getting zero. everything is adjusted. when you have money market rates, 3.4% is a lot higher we want exactly. is anyone paying attention to

taxmageddon? performance is all you got. >> somewhere, somehow, try to be positive that they're going to do something about it. nothing gets done, i believe capital gains on dividends are going to triple. that is for next year and we will have plenty of time to work this out, and i'm 100% sure that they will or else. the economy will go right into the crapper and the marco content market will get hard. gerri: by the way, bill gross, repeating his statement. the market just keeps going up and up. when you say? >> well, far be it from me to say something bad about somebody who has been worth billions. maybe he should stick to bonds. over time, equities will be better. just remember something. i think you have the secular

market -- but i have news. the started in the year 2000 and the secular markets usually last 12 to seniors. i think we are in the late stages of the secular market, and if we can work up the deficits and some of this other stuff that is going on, i think we are headed to another secular bull market on the wrong side of the tracks are now. gerri: jerry, i love your bullish ways. well, time for tomorrow's news. tonight, continue to rush chairs of facebook. an afternoon boost after hitting the lowest levels ever earlier today. facebook hit a new low of $18.75. bouncing back at 5% for the day. also, investors lachance over minutes from the latest meeting of the fomc.

the president and vice president will be back out on the campaign trail. they can't get enough of it. president obama will hit the state of ohio and nevada. joe biden will head to minnesota and michigan. mitt romney will be in texas. we will be right back with my "two cents more" on a major milestone. and a victory for women golfers. are you better off than they were $5 trillion ago? stay with us. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's anothereason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.

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energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy development comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing generations of cleaner-burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self-contained well systems. and, using state-of-the-art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment. we're america's natural gas. gerri: and new polls shows most americans say they are not better off than they were four years ago. in those four years president obama has added nearly 5 trillion to the national debt which is set to cross the 16 chilean dollar mark this week. so are you better off? here is a sum of your posting. added chance. deeper in debt.

the ship is weather -less and sinking fast. if let me think about that. no, no. not 1 penny of that came my way. if i ran up my credit card debt with the police would be knocking on my door to take me away. amen to that off. we talked about this on gerriwillis.com. 3 percent as you said yes : 97 percent said no. here are some of your e-mails. this government is so corrupt it makes me sick. the obama administration is the worst i have seen in my 74 years. how many times as congress have to investigate the gsa? they should have been fired. in congress only knows how to spend, not cat, not audit the multiple departments of this government. it is the height of hypocrisy for them to criticize the gsa. they have helped spend us into this fiscal cliff. way to go, stephanie. send me an e-mail. and here is my "2 cents."

good news. i guess to national golf club, the home of the masters tournament has just added women members for the first time in the 75-year history. national chairman announced earlier today that former secretary of state price and business executive more will be the first female members ever. augusta was the center of controversy earlier this year when ibm, one of the masters sponsors recently promoted virginia as its first female ceo. the odessa had traditionally offer memberships to the ceos of ibm, it did not extend one. it was not the first time there were in the headlines for declining to offer to women. the club had only admitted its first black member in 1990. today it is a different story. the famous winningest golf professional