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vakalyuk, andriy saichuk, this is our final half hour, you can still make a donation during this half hour, a qr code and card number will appear in the corner, and in this half hour we will speak with bohdan raichenets, president of the european congress of ukrainians, head of the ukrainian initiative in the czech republic and zenon koval, a member of the executive board of the european congress of ukrainians, the board of directors of the world congress of ukrainians, political adviser of the ukrainian society of belgium. glad for you. to see, actually, thank you, your case is this, then, then that the case when the descendants of ukrainians who once had to escape from ukraine because of the russian occupiers, now you, their descendants, do a lot of necessary things for ukraine, and we now have such discussions about how those ukrainians who are now fleeing from the russian...occupation, whether they,

or their children, their descendants, will be just as concerned about the fate of ukraine, but now we have a survey that is a bit sad for us that 34% of ukrainians who ended up abroad because of the war are not interested in the news with of ukraine. why are you interested in news from ukraine, although your passport no longer says citizen of ukraine, mr. zenon was actually born in belgium. and mr. bohdan was born in prague or in the czech republic, why? well, i can say one word, first of all, my father never ran away from ukraine, ugh, but the germans arrested him, yes, and took him away, in the 41st year after the proclamation of the restoration of ukrainian statehood, the act of june 30, and he was taken away then to poland, and he was in the auschwitz concentration camp, so he is not a refugee, not an immigrant, he was arrested for political motives, well... he ended up in

refugee camps in germany, there were such large camps in bavaria, mainly augsburg, regensburg, so that he was in those camps, well , then he had the opportunity... because he got a scholarship through our bishop, who was then in the vatican, bishop ivan buchka, had the opportunity to enter a catholic university in belgium, the university of louvain, he completed his studies there, then he stayed where he was and that's how he started, he started dealing with the ukrainian community, but i can give the word to bohdan, because he also has an interesting story, i won't to take time, the ancestors through my mother left in 1947, it was... a very important year from the point of view of history, it was the last transportation from volyn and also the magnitude, you all know the vistula campaign, and there was another campaign when it was already clear who was a bit of a patriot and had to run away from the red

force, let's say it was successful, they left for the czech republic, and many classmates of my ancestors had already gone even further, to germany, canada. roman vashchuk, by the way, is the ambassador of canada, and now the former in ukraine, and now the ombudsman, by the way, business, ombudsman in ukraine, he also that story, how his father was leaving somewhere from lviv, and even then his colleague told him to buy a cheap car from me, so that you would have something to drive now, because he says, as he says, the soviets will come, i don't know, will they see that i have a car, he says, go with me, he says, and what will they do to me, i am a small businessman, why did they think that you are a political activist there? shouted ukraine, and i'll sit down, and he says, he was shot, the soviets shot him and completely took away his business, it was obvious but not for everyone, mr. kusan, you said that your father did not run away, but i was a little interested in this topic of deep camps, ugh, in which ukrainians who were actually escaping from

the red influx found themselves, and i know that some of the people from there were soviet the union terribly tempted to return back, lured all kinds of people there... they wrote letters that it is so good here, in this country of the soviets, come back, but there was a part of people who said no reason, because they also had to go through such a filtering, the americans or the germans said : return, or french, return there, but there was a part of ukrainians who believed, returned and then found themselves already in soviet camps as traitors, so your father did not run away, but he could not return home because the house was occupied. absolutely, you know, there were special ones created then, they were called repatriation commissions, which traveled around those camps, recruited people, you know, and how after the first world war, after the vesual competitions, many ukrainians returned, hrushevsky himself returned, we know that later not for a long time lived, so

that they in every possible way and tried to return ukrainian, say, refugees or displaced persons. to ukraine, well then, obviously it was not beneficial for them that those ukrainians who were returning were witnesses and started talking and telling what they saw about the outside world, it was a taboo, it was a danger, because they would start spreading some information , which they do not need, so instead of ending up in ukraine, they ended up in siberia, indeed, but a large part of our emigrants also belonged to patriotic and nationalist groups. organizations, they were aware that they knew what happened when the soviet union began to occupy that part of ukraine that belonged to poland between the two wars, and they saw what kind of order they began to impose on those western ukrainian lands, so

they knew what was going on , and they really defended their positions and told people, don't be, you know, deceived, and because you really don't know what the... i would also like to say about the fact that even today we still have a historical connection of our because 75 years was created, not that it was created, because it was there was a coordinating association, a coordinating center of central public institutions in europe, a group of ukrainians who are opin. it was renamed the european congress of ukrainians, which later became the founder of the world congress of ukrainians. i am correct here, nothing is wrong, so thank god that

this name was changed, it was very difficult, but it proves that, you see, this kooktsu, which today is called eku, the european congress of ukrainians, was created in the year 49, which means that already existed then whether there were a number of organizations in different countries of europe, it was created in london, so in england there was... this organization was the union of ukrainians of great britain, in france there was also an organization of ukrainians, in belgium there was one, in germany there was one, it was called ppun. and so on, and so on. and those organizations felt that they had common goals, what were the main goals then? to prevent the assimilation of ukrainians, to take care of the good integration of ukrainians into the environments and regions in which they live. to protect the rights of ukrainians, human rights, as such before those governments where they live, or the rights of

ukrainian minorities. and also, to work with those, with the governments or with the parliaments of those countries, so that they know what is happening in ukraine, what is the actual situation, but bohdan also knows a lot about this, because his mother was also a member of the european congress of ukrainians of the first, you know, in 1994-5, this... su or eku, which then changed its name, actually attracted all the countries of central europe that were under moscow's influence until 1990 or 1989, 1990 . we know what fell into in 1989 and the iron curtain that divided europe into two zones of influence, one euro-atlantic, and the other moscow, kremlin, and then, uh... the management of this collective of the european congress itself began to organize relations with its fraternal

organizations in other countries, in poland, in czechoslovakia, then there were boshins in both the czech republic and slovakia, or there you can talk about the role of your mother, because she was also very active in this, but this is the story, i would say so, everything from seven education comes to her, and this patriotism... is not born automatically, you grow up in that environment, unless it's passed on by your parents or some closer environment, it's actually hard to influence that in sabbath school, but when you're already in sabbath school, it means you got there because your parents sent you, that is, this is an important heritage, and there are still many ukrainians who were born outside of ukraine, like us, well, i would jump to the present. and they understand that these are simply not bubbles, they are all separate, and now the war has been going on for 2 years and

before that, what we need to do and what we are trying to do, maybe there will be more talk about it, that is, assimilation is a natural process, it will happen, and considering what happened in ukraine historically, the strengthening of the new foreign ukrainianism was always a new wave of emigration, well, today we... see that such a number is actually new for everyone, for the whole of europe, we will speak for europe, because we are the european congress, yes, and these 5-6 to 7 million ukrainians who are currently visiting europe for a long time or on a rotating basis, time will tell how and we and everyone else managed to draw the attention of europe and ours to what is organized ukrainianism, it will definitely remain and will definitely be. on ukrainianness, it will definitely remain and there will definitely be, as we call, the rotational life of these people, that is,

even those who are now many percent already say, this is how we will live here, they will bring their potential, both human and financial, back to ukraine, even those that will remain in europe, we know this from experience and will support that it makes sense bilaterally, you see, you have such a difficult task, because first of all, to remind europe, and, if we are talking about the european congress of ukrainians, to remind europe that the war continues, it is not over and is needed, ukraine needs help, and on the other hand, you, as descendants of ukrainians, because that is the difference, you know , because between those previous waves of emigration, there were such refined ukrainians who found it dangerous to stay in occupied ukraine, and now we have a slightly different diaspora, and you , in fact, being born abroad, having an entry in your passport that you are not a citizen of ukraine, have

to teach those ukrainians who emigrated, part of ukrainians who emigrated, how to be ukrainian, and what it is to be ukrainian? you are right, and above all, ukraine, ukrainianness in ukraine, i might say, the state or institutions of ukraine are asking and demanding from europe, including from organizations like us, to facilitate... the return of all those ukrainians, there is such a desire, but the reality is more complicated. yes, at some point there is a crossroads, and first of all we support the fact that... about the war should be known as much as possible in the public sector of the european space in general and in the political and political and i will briefly say about this, where is the border beyond, this is nothing new, italy, portugal, greece and so on, further to the west, of course this question of war does not ring,

it is simply too far, this is our task of our organizations to constantly remind , because of these... manifestations, you said vyshyvanka day is very important, as a message for the majority population of these countries, that ukrainians are here, and people are dying every day, so we have to do this, this, this, this, this, this is important our task, while helping refugees, yes, first of all, in the first year, a number of integration centers, support centers, language courses of the countries where they are located, finances were created. aid and so on, there is also our activity, these are the people, we need to help them, this would be such a definite crossroads, at the same time, the priority is the aid of ukraine, this is the priority, you know, we are talking, and you, mr. bohdan, and mr. zenon, of course, is impressed by how good,

perfect ukrainian language you have, although they were born in ukraine, and now, and this means that you were in some environment, then there was... the position of yours, your parents in the first place, right? but we are now faced with the fact that, for example, our friend dobra, who is in warsaw, not far away, is not in portugal, and she is now there not because she also ran away, even because she is from lviv, but because that she now works in warsaw officially, a journalist, she was simply called to that bureau , and her child went to school, and there are now a bunch of ukrainian schools and classes, well , where is the child, the ukrainian class, well... what will go into polish, it would seem. and suddenly, there, there are mixed classes, but in those mixed classes there are children from ukraine from different regions, and here her daughter, who never spoke russian and does not know it, in warsaw, started to speak russian, because her environment, the children from ukraine, they are from russian-speaking regions, and she, under pressure,

due to the fact that they are the majority, simply began to switch to russian for them and that... actually, our friend noticed and started talking to her, why are you doing this? another example is our teresa, who has basically left now simply, using the opportunity to save and earn money for myself, and i will say this frankly, for example, for further studies here in lviv, well , because there is now such an opportunity to go for that student visa, it has become freer, and she is now in ireland, and she, for example, i was surprised in a small irish town, a third now... the population is ukrainian immigrants, a third, they did nothing at all in the city on august 24, and i don't know that today is vyshyvanka day, but for example, may 9 she was congratulated on victory day, and she, i don't know how to react, they continue to listen to russian music, they all speak russian, and she simply does not know, some

bubbles are formed where even people do not pass, they do not even want to read irish, irish or english, god irish gaelic. and accordingly, what turns out to be the formation of some new such closed communities of these immigrants who do not even go through the process of transformation, ukrainization, which russian-speaking ukrainians go through here under bombs and missiles, if i can comment on it, i have two children, they also of school age, there are ukrainians from ukraine in their classes, well, they identify themselves as ukrainians in the czech republic, the social element is very difficult, and many children actually have... frankly, psychological problems, and they, of course, if they get into some kind of environment others, russian-speaking, just so that they are not lonely, maybe they will go for it, this is one element, what we do with it is a separate long tale, the second element, ireland, we have a direct connection there with our colleague,

the situation there is very difficult, and it was before the war, and also must... say that ireland treated refugees relatively almost the best in all of europe, the support there was very good, maybe i don't want to invent more, but still maybe someone knew that such support is better in ireland than in other countries , and that's why he chose it, not because he had to go there, but simply because there are better conditions, just not to work, that's how you said it exactly, i can also add two small ... which are interesting to that conversations, how to do with language, you see, when i was small, i already told it more than once acquaintances and as there was an opportunity. i have an older sister, so there is almost two years of difference, and we were four, five or six years old, and we started to speak something in french at home, environment, assimilation, integration, yes, and

my father heard that we were speaking french, he said no, what i hear, we are frozen, here at home only ukrainian is spoken, behind the door there on the street they say "lyuba", we have to start from that principle, the second thing. how do your surroundings communicate, we were at ukrainian youth camps, summer camps, holiday camps, so there were also a lot of all kinds of children coming there, and they had to speak to each other in french, ugh, ugh, but we took it upon ourselves, no, we will exclusively communicate in ukrainian, and then it depends on us how our surroundings will be.' . some people knew this, i am my oldest friend, he speaks only ukrainian with me to this day, and his own, he is 60, yes 65, and with

his peers he speaks french, although they are of ukrainian origin, but with me he knows , which cannot be said otherwise, so a lot depends on us, and if we will be carriers of that ukrainian word, then people will know that they should speak to us in ukrainian, and not in russian or any other. this is very important, we have to be on top of it, there are a few minutes left, mr. bohdan, your children, what kind of generation is this, which was born outside of ukraine? through my mother, actually, well, for the fourth time, for the fourth time, they know ukrainian, yes, what is your experience with them, tell our viewers, two minutes, i hope you will invest, my children, i said, we will speak ukrainian at home, because it is necessary. my wife was born in uzhhorod, but she was taken away when she was little, four or five years old, too, i say, this is the basis, i say, this is our future, this, and without this we

will not proceed further, everything, of course, czech words are thrown there, where it's a bit difficult, and unfortunately, when there's a war, they don't visit ukraine much, that's a minus, that's a little bit because the kremlin ruined our plans, because we wanted to spend more time in ukraine with our children, so that they learn ukrainian properly, you know , literally a minute it remains, i asked... as always, a long, difficult question, and the ukrainian language and vyshyvanka, that is enough to be ukrainian, what is it like to be ukrainian, for me these are the most interesting answers to hear from people who have lived life not in ukraine, this is a good start, but it is necessary to work on it and develop it, to know where the ukrainian language comes from, where that vyshyvanka comes from, what it represents today, what it can do, what values ​​the language carries, what values, what history, sir bohdan, it is very important that we took the t-shirts that we had, although we were traveling by train and could not do everything brothers and said: yes, we are taking vyshyvanka day,

a very important message in europe, eh, europeans are getting used to this holiday, let's get, not only ukraine, an important message, today in many european cities there will be a march for ukraine in vyshyvanka, and that we could explain where that embroidered shirt is from and why it is worn, we thank you very much. thank you for the conversation and for your thoughts and for your personal experience, i hope that it will inspire and push someone. bohdan raichynets, president of the european congress of ukrainians, chairman of the public organization ukrainian initiative in the czech republic, born in the czech republic, and zenon koval, member of the executive board of the european congress of ukrainians, board of directors of the world congress of ukrainians, political advisor of the ukrainian society in belgium, born in belgium, but who feel and consider themselves ukrainians and that. teach all ukrainians who may not yet feel it, dear friends, thank you for being with us, lesya vakulyuk, andriy saichuk, worked in this studio for you, thank you for your donations, you today, for 41 00 hryvnias were collected this morning, but

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