was also adopted in kyrgyzstan, mr. vitaly, how do you assess such actions of the georgian authorities, why now, why is georgia sliding towards such postulates of russian authoritarianism? well, by the way, this is an interesting story, because in georgia this law has not yet been adopted, in kyrgyzstan it has already been adopted and signed by president zhaparov, and here we can clearly say that this is not just some kind of, you know, formal thing, because after when the law on kyrgyzstan was signed, president kasym japarov said that there would be no problems, that there would be no there are no difficulties with public organizations, and after he said that, public organizations began to close one after the other, but just a few days ago, despite all the assurances of sadyr japarov,

the soros foundation kyrgyzstan stopped... the work, and you understand, that for such a small country as kyrgyzstan, every such organization that allows the creation of public initiatives, independent media, is a huge story, and here we have a simple situation, here was kyrgyzstan, which was always considered just one of these exceptions from central asian politics, because the government changed, independent media appeared, there were different political parties in the parliament, whether it was some clan relations, of course... but people knew that when they went and voted, they could change the government, or or through a rebellion, and as you understand, in tajikistan, uzbekistan, turkmenistan and even in kazakhstan, you will not change the power in this way, that is, it was the only small country, yes, not like the others, in terms of the number of inhabited territories, but which showed that it is possible in central asia build democracy. as soon as kyrgyzstan began to drift towards russia under sadyr zhaparov. actions related to

the liquidation of this democracy immediately began, and you understand that in reality the regime of sadir japarov is not in danger, he is very popular, he came to power on the wave of popular protest, he may have real chances to to recommend deputies who are elected in the parliament. this is such a kyrgyz zelensky, you understand, but why did he take such steps, if he is so popular and a problem, i i think it's because you're getting closer to moscow, and when you get closer to moscow, they tell you in moscow, and somehow it's not very good, comrade zhaparov, if you have some incomprehensible public organizations that are funded by the americans, you don't think, do you? that these organizations are friendly to us, the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation.

came out with a statement that she believes that all these public organizations in the countries of central asia are anti-russian in nature, and this is an ordinary educational conversation, and it may not even be at the level of putin, on the level of some officials, here you have organizations financed by the americans, you have its publications, newspapers financed by the americans, one of the first measures of the new. the dagestan authorities tried to limit the activities of radio liberty's local services, which, by the way, happened earlier in uzbekistan, what happened in turkmenistan, that is, as soon as you think that you need to get closer to moscow, you are immediately told, or you with our enemies, or you are not with us, why do you allow our enemies to operate on your territory, it is not even a question of japarov, in the fact that these publications and these organizations, they can speak completely differently. about the russian-ukrainian war,

look how many kazakhs sympathize with ukraine, this is because this tradition, i would say pluralism in the media, no matter what, it is not lost in kazakhstan, there is russian television, but people, people who, let's say, watch the news there in kazakh or kyrgyz, they, as you understand, can have alternative sources of information, by the way, in kazakhstan, i want to say that part of russian television limited in other words, we are talking about the fact that such belarusianization is taking place in kyrgyzstan and already in georgia, to a certain extent. well, in any, i would say, authoritarianism, which wants to focus on russia, is forced to build a state based on the russian example, and as you remember... in ukraine

, it has always been like that, why were all our protests like that serious, or our government wanted to falsify the elections, or it refused european integration, and do you remember the example in armenia? where the russians really succeeded to convince the then president serzh sarkhsyan that it is necessary to abandon the european association agreement. and armenia was immediately brought to the eurasian union, to the csto. and then, when the real problem started, the war, it turned out that russia was not going to defend it. this is also a very good example. that is, the main thing for moscow is to separate, to separate the post-soviet space and the civilized world. that is an interesting moment, but if there will be any chinese funding of, say, public organizations in kyrgyzstan, this will also be limited, they will they also be under the strict supervision of president japarov's administration? i think not, because first of all, we understand that

russia and china are at least partners, and in fact, russia or china is a hegemon in relation to russia, at least, and... and by the way, countries such as kazakhstan gravitate towards china, we know it well that chinese money goes there, chinese money also goes to belarus, which we mentioned, yes, chinese money goes to mongolia, the same, for example, that is, we are the states, on which russia, in particular, would like to influence, it is clear that china is also strengthening its influence there, and in this case we are aware that chinese organizations, chinese businesses, chinese media projects, they will work in these states, which they want in that including exposing russia. by the way, kyrgyz law is great for you: organizations that are recognized as foreign representatives must

submit additional reports, report quarterly to state institutions on how they used the money, every six months report on your action. about their leaders, there may be unscheduled checks if the state authorities decide, leaders of organizations that try to influence citizens to refuse to fulfill their civic duties, what this means, we do not know, it is a fine, or they can be deprived of their freedom for a term of up to 5 years, if no information is provided, a fine can be imposed. or deprivation of liberty for 5 years, if repeated violations, an even greater fine, or deprivation of liberty for 10 years, for what, i wonder, imagine, this practically criminalizes public and journalistic activity, it criminalizes de facto any dissenting opinion,

that is, essentially one course, one party, yes, one jafarov, one jafarov, and in case. here from georgia, here we are coming back, we see a somewhat similar path, and unfortunately, the georgian authorities are choosing it now, but there is a difference, there is already our distinguished guest, i hope he will be with us now, there is, there is an important moment, that georgia is a candidate for membership of the european union, everything is possible with kyrgyzstan to understand, kazakhstan or kyrgyzstan, i'm sorry, like other central asian countries, some are members of the collective security treaty organization, he is a member of the eurasian. economic union, but georgia, it is a candidate for membership of the european union, and i am now reading from these representatives of the georgian government, from the prime minister, let's say what he says: if we are accepted into the european union, we will change this law or cancel it altogether , what problems, we will be guided by it while

we are not in the european union, well, this is a completely distorted idea of ​​the european integration, you know? and why is georgia going this way, what, what, what is wrong with the georgian language? authorities that they allow themselves to pass such laws, by the way, this is not the first bill, not the first attempt and not the first bill that actually moves georgia towards the russian scenario, by the way, the prime minister of georgia said this week , that they would not like to follow the path of ukrainization, but actually this is also a very interesting thing, what is wrong with the georgian government now? i think that this is the problem of any government that already has a monopoly in society, but fears that its monopoly will be taken away. by the way, our telethon has exactly the same genesis. so it would seem. benzina ivanishvili, like volodymyr zelenskyi, is not in danger. there is an obvious level of support, there is an obvious

rating of the georgian dream. we understand that in the next parliamentary elections, the georgian dream will most likely win, form a government, and elect a new president. the question arises, what? should be done, relatively speaking, by an independent media community or civil society organizations that threaten these people, but they begin to fear any criticism that they do not control this is an idea, you know, if we speak realistically, this is the idea of ​​sovereign democracy, but there is no sovereign democracy in russia anymore, it was invented by vladislav surkov. sovereign democracy is when you are in control and control the manifestations of the opposition along with it. that is, there are some other thoughts, but they are also controlled. this is how it was in russia, relatively speaking, until 2022. novaya gazeta was published. the echo of moscow radio station worked, there were some right-wing organizations, even

the memorial was working, but as soon as you go a little further, you are controlled, that's how i think they want to create a system. giorgii kandelaki, former georgian parliamentarian, representative of the sovlab organization, is in touch with us, congratulations, mr. giorgii, good evening, good evening, so please explain to us, i dare to understand with my colleague why your government goes and... goes in this strange way, why do they have a foreign influence law now, can you explain to us? in fact, no one fully understands the motivation of bedina ivanishvili, our version of yanukovych, our oligarch, not even the majority of the georgian dream, why he i was thinking about this adventure, on the eve of the elections, but it is not necessary. to really understand to the end, because we can reflect,

taking publicly announced things, it is known that this initiative is praised by the leaders of russia, lavrov, volodin, dugin, he likes this law very much, and at the same time this law is criticized by the leaders of the civilized world. the united states , etc., and this is enough for georgia, first of all, also for our friends, to draw conclusions about what we are talking about, what we are talking about is that this tree in georgia is in the orbit of the kremlin, which causes very sharp reaction of our society. and this situation is developing itself. mr. georgy, please tell me, you have already mentioned

the georgian society, whether your society, in opposition to the georgian one , has the opportunity to stop this process of actual belarusianization of the country. conclusion and subsections. of this process, it is difficult to predict this once, it was a year when the same law, the same law was proposed, due to the sharp reaction of society, it was withdrawn, stopped, fortunately, by the number of people on the streets, and the energy of the protests, and the guard outweighs my expectations, the expectations of others. it prevails, so three days have passed, there were no

planned protests, everyone was preparing for the second reading in the parliament, and the process was just beginning, but for the third day in a row , young people are blocking rustaveli avenue, today was a women's march, georgian women are spontaneous in the evenings. the protests of the younger generation, and the intensity and sharpness of these protests give reason for optimism, but it is very difficult to understand what the offspring will be, the determined society is very high, but on the other hand there is this fanatical, fanatical the position of the georgian dream of the ivanishvili regime of russia, have already warned that all this can significantly

worsen the situation, in principle, even disrupt the process of negotiations of georgia on joining the european union, why ivanishvili and his team? why this to ivanishvili and his team? again, it is difficult to analyze, i have already said about it, probably the logic of his actions is difficult to understand. on the one hand, he expresses strength, shows, shows strength, like last year, this is motivation, but the main reason lies in processes that are not very well known, in general, in my opinion in the opinion, in the opinion of many others, this is directly related to russia, and this is the government's game with

russia, that's why they do it, answering your question, why do they do it? the prime minister of georgia stated that he is very afraid of the threat of ukrainization, that is, it turns out that ukraine is like this, as they say, georgia was afraid of this, so to speak. please tell me why, why does the prime minister speak like that, and is the example of ukraine a bad one for georgia, well, from the point of view of the georgian authorities, and what is ukrainianization from their point of view. they mean war and bloodshed, and again they are playing on the fact that for georgia the 2008 war is a living memory and still are, and they are playing on insurance before the war, their platform is precisely that

we are bad, but if not us, it will be worse, there will be a war, do you want it? no, and in this vein , this propaganda is 100% coincident, synchronized, and it can even be said that it is coordinated from the kremlin by the russian authorities, and this is the understanding they put in, they have spoiled georgian-ukrainian relations for a long time, contrary to the sentiments of our society , what of course, supports ukraine as a whole, but this fear. before the war, what happened in 2008, when our country had to stand against russia alone, and this, this, what, what kremlin propaganda is playing on: the government of georgia, the georgian government, is 100% the conduit of russian propaganda , such a unique and tragic situation in quotes that fell

on us, on the other hand, you do not have diplomatic relations with russia, abkhazia and south ossetia continue to have. actually annexed by russia, because the russian state has a relationship with them agreement on joint military support. how can you be pro-russian on the one hand, and oppose russia's occupation of georgian territories on the other? how does it all happen in one head, if you will? in fact, the georgian dream does not really oppose the occupation, they just observe some kind of ritual. but from the point of view of politics, politics as such, they do nothing against the occupation, especially in the international arena, the main dimension and the main test for all this is whether georgia is active in the international arena, in terms of resistance, opposition to the occupation,

occupation, de-occupation, for example, the inclusion of the issue of georgia, the occupied territories. why not, why not, it's a very simple logic and a very simple georgian interest, that our issue should be in a package with ukraine on the diplomatic front. but the georgian government strongly opposes it. himself demonstrates that he is, de facto, already a satellite of russia, this is our authenticity, this is reality, and our society has only just realized this, and our partners in the west, unfortunately, not so much, mr. georgy, we sincerely thank you for your thoughts and for your peer review, egordelaki,

former georgian parliamentarian, and we already have the next one. guest on communication nataliya plaksienko butyrska, east asian expert, master of foreign policy, mrs. nataliya, good evening, good evening, well, let's try to understand with you what is happening now with chinese interest in the russian-ukrainian track, after all anyway, when the chinese say that they are ready to provide a platform for a russian-ukrainian conference, that there should be bilateral communication, that... that a conference in which russia will not be present makes no sense, practically is it the same as what the russians themselves say, what do they want to achieve? well, as a matter of fact, they voiced their position that... you said that, that, that what russia wants, we have a platform for negotiations, a global summit, which is offered by ukraine fairly, but

you see that even under the pressure of our partners , at the great request of china , we have not yet seen an agreement, that is , it has not yet agreed to participate in this global summit, because china, well, first of all, it is persecuting it. other purpose, china on in any case with his neutrality, he is on the side of russia, and what russia announced that it does not recognize this summit, well, it is obvious, because the peace formula is not about what russia wants, accordingly, china is trying with all its efforts to achieve not only the participation of russia and ukraine in this at the international summit, but they... i propose that this should be a platform recognized by both sides, that there should be equal conditions for both sides, and

different proposals, different peace proposals, should be discussed, well and china is obviously not against it also to push the negotiation table and those proposals that he had, especially since lavrov already talked about the fact that the chinese plan is not so bad, and in such a way. in this case, on the one hand , the interests of russia are preserved and advanced, on the other hand, china acts as a peacemaker, and this affects this process from its chinese side. ms. natalia, the question is: here is the secretary of state of the united states of america, anthony blinken, he actually warned china about russia. conventionally speaking, this warning sounded like china cannot, as they say, sit still. or stand with one foot in both shoes. please tell me whether the united states of america has any methods of influencing china

so that, relatively speaking, this great country at least maintains such a real neutrality. well, the united states is trying to use what it can, and that pressure is, on the one hand, damn. announced to the western partners during the nato summit at the level of foreign ministers that china is helping russia and named a whole list, how it is, what exactly it is helping with, it is quite a lot, this is so that the western partners also took into account during their summits, during their meetings, and there were already meetings, as, for example, scholz already met with chinese leaders, and the meeting. will there still be, because xi jinping is planning a visit to france, so that they will focus on this and that they will connect to the pressure that the united states of america is exerting,

there are not so many tools, no matter how much china talks about sanctions secondary, like he would not oppose them, but from my point of view this is still a method, because when financial the state of the united states began to really press. and threaten real sanctions against china's financial institutions, only then in all these transactions that took place between the two countries and even in yuan, they were very seriously affected, and this is not only acceptable information that the western press is talking about, these are real things, about which the russians themselves speak, it is really very difficult to conduct financial transactions between the two countries now, and the chinese are really very clear... they check everything that might even have some touch on the goods, for example, dual-use, or what may be on the sanctions lists, that is, from my

point of view, the method is just the whip in relation to china, it should work, and it should work very carefully and very seriously, and not only against china itself, because, for example, our group that monitors compliance with yermak mcfaul sanctions, it also... demonstrated a list of various microcircuits, elements used by the russian military, which are still being purchased by western companies, and it is clear that these exports go not only through china, because china was also an important place of re-export, but also through many other countries, and they must also be pressured, they must also be punished with sanctions, there is no other, other way, just conspiracy and appeals to conscience, well, they do not work. china, in particular, should know that russia's support, russia's cooperation with russia, has a very serious price for it. but these warnings that

sounded during the meeting of the g7 foreign ministers in capri about whether china should choose between the chinese and the smart or the beautiful, or the europeans or the russians, to what extent they can be taken seriously in beijing, from my point of view, they should be articulated separately by the leaders of european countries, for example, during the visit, scholz raised the issue of china's support for russia. but when china is given the cake, when china, for example, sees, in the case of let's say, with germany, that economic relations , including germany, are tied to china, and there may be certain manipulations, then obviously it will try to and sit in those two shoes. still blindin, when he raised his eyes to talk, he is obviously counting on a more serious approach.

partners, in particular scholz and in particular macron, and these conversations, they should not be through the prism of some kind of further interaction there, after all, they should be a certain condition, especially since for the european union, russia's war against ukraine is not about some kind of conflict, which does not concern them, is this clear awareness of their own threat, and accordingly, what... supports the military-industrial complex and the entire defense of russia, nato generals and military, european military, they say and realize that in the future this support is indirect to china, but it still exists, it can turn into military actions of russia against the european union, if now, for example, they fail, if ukraine

fails to stop, say. yes, russia, that is , it is important here that this awareness is supported by a clear articulation and clear such steps and signals in relation to china, then it, from my point of view, will at least have some such drawn red lines, what is possible, what is not. and can it happen, what china will move from the supply of such technological goods to a certain extent to direct supply. the issue of russian military goods, i.e. weapons, is china ready to actually take such actions? it seems to me that china is not yet ready for such a thing, because it will be associated with a serious complication of relations with the united states of america and with the european union, it will already mean that it has crossed a red line, but still that is why, or rather, blinken and others... are european

leaders talking about the inadmissibility of this help, for today this is a preventive conversation for china, so that he does not do this, for now, for now we will think that it is enough for china and its personal interests in the american market, in western technologies and in the desire to keep moderate relations with the western world, with the americans, as well as certain... their own personal risks, they will be such a serious deterrent, well, plus, obviously, it is also important that the world is really feeling the negative consequences of this war now, and china is among those countries that , as we we see, they are interested in stopping the conflict, that is another matter, we have already talked about the conditions on which they are not pro-ukrainian,

unfortunately, nevertheless not... comfort from the conflict, and china, in particular, emphasized scholz, because he after the visit said that many countries that are friends with russia, they are not satisfied with this war, they are not satisfied with this war, it is obvious that because of the global consequences, because of the impact on the economy and because of the general situation in education, as you think, this is a rivalry. of the united states and china in the asia-texas region, as affect the whole situation? after all, we see that the congress will deal with aid today not only to ukraine, israel, but also to taiwan, other asian-texan allies of the chinese people, and the united states. the people's republic of china, in its turn, is taking an obvious initiative in order to somehow drag us allies to its side, but the foreign minister was in indonesia, today he is in planned guinea, where the americans would like

to have their real ones. military capabilities, has already held talks there with...