for two years now, our state has been moving in the opposite direction from democracy and freedom of speech. we are doing our best to bring our victory closer and believe that we will definitely win. but if the authorities do not admit their mistake and return us to the digital air, there is a great risk that in the future we may turn into russia, because the attack on freedom of speech in russia began precisely with the restriction or elimination of the media. due to disconnection. t2 our channel lost about 40% of the audience, but espresso continues to speak on the internet, in cable networks, on two satellites in ukraine and abroad. we are actively developing on youtube and social networks. this audience already exceeds the figure we lost then, but still we continue to call on the authorities, all the officials who are responsible for this, to return us to the digital network, because ah... not all

ukrainians today have the opportunity to watch us thanks to cable networks, satellite and the internet, they are still waiting for us in the t2 network, so it is important to return the espresso tv channel to t2 with the simple goal that a is democracy, b is freedom of speech, in this european values, the most important thing is that people have the right to have access to various information, not always convenient for someone, for a certain policy, i am not saying for the authorities, not convenient for some certain people, but this is the information that is... just journalism , and we give what is reality, we prepare people for certain things that are inevitable, we talk about what is happening and what can happen, we asked ukrainians what they think about the shutdown of espresso and their attitude to of a single marathon, the popularity is falling, and that's it everything has been said, everything must be, a person must have a choice, he must choose, i have a negative attitude, this is an alternative. different

channels, different views, that's why i don't see any problem not to show them on t2, especially since i know rural, especially the area, there were a lot of users, they watched expresso, i don't like it, but why? well, because there are channels that cover news from all sides, including, despite the disconnection from the digital network, the espressu tv channel continues to make headlines in information broadcasting. team. informs viewers about all important events, and war correspondents, risking their lives, document the crimes of russia, and we are still waiting for the channel with a ukrainian perspective to return to digital espresso to digital air. welcome to the espresso channel. today, in our military program, we will talk about how ukraine can. and wants to strengthen its

air defense system. ukraine's need to increase air defense has become so obvious that, for example, the european parliament refused to vote this week for the budgetary issues of the council of the eu, until ukraine receives additional patriot systems, because the meps themselves believe that there are as many as 100 patriot systems in europe and that it is quite possible and quite logical to transfer to ukraine at least... all for the protection of our cities, but these are the words politicians, and this does not really mean that the governments of european countries are about to make a decision to share patriots with ukraine, so what is the reality and what can ukraine do to really strengthen its anti-aircraft capabilities both on the battlefield and in skies over our civilian cities in view of... russian threats, which are still not

abating. we will talk about this in the next issue of our military program war and weapons. my name is serhiy sgurets, i am the director of the information and consulting company defense express, which is currently working together with the espresso channel to highlight the most relevant trends in the life of our defense-industrial complex and our armed forces. and now we are joined by valentyn badrak, director of the center for army research, conversion and armament, military analyst. writer, mr. valentino, i congratulate you, glad to see and hear. congratulations, mr. sergey, as always, i am very glad of the invitation. just before the program, you and i discussed the fact that now the war is changing and each side is trying to use the advantages of technology in one way or another, and the one who adapts faster, in principle, he really, well, has a certain opportunity to overtake the enemy and the one who who does the work faster on... mistakes

also has a profit from this work, but i would like you to evaluate it so generally now modern battlefield, what is crucial on it ? and as an additional question with our air defense, is this pursuit of technologies also taking place there, where each side is trying to find the weaknesses of the other, well, i will probably start with the general, from the battlefield, yes, sometime since september, the military actually signaled from the front, that the war of drones began, and this from one... year was caused by the insufficiency both in ukraine and in the country itself of the aggressors in russia, precisely of modern and very artillery systems, i would i would say, those smart munitions that

could be used very actively, and in fact, immediately there was a competition in how these drones would be... modernized, and we saw very serious things that were happening, that is, the dynamics of technological change increased since september 23rd, well , just a few times, we have also seen the creation of drones, fpv drones by self-capture of targets, targets, we have also seen drones with thermal imagers, which was not the case before, but in the mass now you... we now see literally yesterday there was an interesting message about the fact that in russia they seem to have developed a communication system and are moving from pprf to dynamic frequency changes, and this seems to make

the situation with drones very difficult, but at the same time, at the same time, the effectiveness of fpv drones, military eyes ... from about 10 to 40% and they say that somewhere you need somewhere up to 10 drones to destroy, for example, a tank, and many drones are lost, rap influences very actively, and this is in new, even old, new technologies, for example, from hunting handguns, which shoot down small drones, let's say guns. rebovskyi, very diverse technologies, interceptors are now developing very actively, the americans have already purchased as many as 600 coyotes, and such interceptors, and all this prompts experts

to talk about certain changes. now there are opinions that, firstly, rep will have a greater influence, and secondly, there will be changes in the sense that... for example, ground operations will make up, well, the main or core of capabilities on the battlefield, and already at the beginning of january, ukrainians demonstrated several such interesting things, well, in particular, the kamikaze drone went as far as 4 km to the enemy and destroyed the bridge, this is a very similar trend, very interesting, showed the deminers who... literally in front of the enemy 100 m and even to the enemy can demine unmanned platforms, these are very serious things, then the development of underwater drones, minis, even mini- submarines, these are all moments, and of course development

and aerial systems, for example, china created, interestingly, created a drone, it was literally... it was reported in march that a drone can be divided into three, six other drones and create a controlled swarm of drones, that is, these are very powerful ideas , powerful systems, but mainly what we have, what we have to conclude, the conclusion is, we are fighting a combined war, in a combined war is when very expensive things collide with very cheap but massive... technologies, and we see that, we see that cheap mass technologies, in the war of attrition are beginning to dominate, we see the exhaustion of the ukrainian air defense system, we see the exhaustion of the russian artillery, in fact,

when drones surpass and increase the effect of work efficiency and perform, well, yes, of course, they do not perform the full range, but only about three... 40% of artillery functions, but due to dynamics, due to cheapness, one projectile, well, certainly on the russian market, it costs about 600-700 for itself there. but we now have one munition costing up to 8,000 dollars, recently the namo company reported that it had increased tenfold to 800 dollars, at the beginning of the year nato signed a contract, which was already 5,500 dollars for one munition, i am not talking about smart ammo that costs over 60k dollars for one ammunition, and a drone. one costs 600 dollars, there, if it is more

technological, it will still cost no more than 2-3 thousand dollars, and how this dynamic affects precisely the confrontation of air defense systems, you mentioned that ukrainian air defense is slowly being depleted, probably due to the fact that the enemy uses shaheds or cheaper missiles there, more expensive missiles are used for strikes for such important targets, as this dynamic affects the formation of the russian strategy there offensive, our defense, and when it comes to air defense systems, a very important point is related to the creation of echeloned air defense and the creation of a sequence of targets, so to speak, but literally today we read such and such an insider's report about yesterday's. day, and that a ukrainian s-300 was shot down in odesa,

hit by a drone, and according to the ukrainian military, this happened because they were not allowed to shoot down a drone that was above them, formally, everything is true, this reflects the essence of the problem, now ukraine has focused on the fact that the world is looking for patriots, patriot systems, we know that the patriot missile costs from... , collect a significant number of systems, say, the same sky ranger, sky next with programmable ammunition, then in fact they would take over all the issues of enemy drones and a significant part of missiles, and then only ballistics would be dealt with, say, the same patriot, and, for example, by planes on

long distances, there 50, 70 km from the front line, this is such an important point, the second important point is that you need to look more broadly at the market than only at the market of patriots, well, for example, let me remind you that saudi arabia in february... this year , during the exhibition, concluded a new contract with south korea for 10 batteries of a new, well, not quite the same new system, but a medium-range system, as it is called, yes, which can reliably shoot down missiles at a distance of 40 km, and such a system would take also take on part of the tasks, if, for example, the european union, europe could have been bought off, but the main issue with the patriots and with other

issues, with other systems, is that we faced a great, great egoism of the european countries, because they are now already each of the countries thinking that they have to defend myself, and ukraine, well, let it be, yes, it is telling that the president of moldova called. the netherlands yesterday had this information to transfer their batteries to ukraine, they have three batteries of patriots, and not so, really not so, vulnerable now right now, but today and now we must protect ukraine, i i am not talking about such countries as greece, yes, which are under the great influence of moscow, and they are unlikely to hand over their batteries, but let's say. the same germany out of ten of its batteries, well, it could hand over a couple of three,

the same poland or romania, which have just purchased patriot systems, could well share the queue, and become, so to speak, second in line, why, why is it important to prove europe, because otherwise they themselves will have to use these systems to fight against hostile russia when it attacks... attacks european nato countries, well, of course, and of course, the purchase of patriot systems outside the european union, outside europe, it can also be... and, well, again yesterday, yesterday's speech by the prime minister of japan, mr. kishida in the congress of the united states of america, where he urged not to give up the leadership of the united states, and apparently he hinted that the united states could also sell to the europeans, say,

5-10 batteries of its 60 patriot batteries there, but ... tellingly, this a very brave performance by the japanese, who are becoming now, well, very strongly, so to speak, they are putting pressure on ukraine, yes, i understand that theirs are there, how many 24 petrio batteries they have, they are unlikely to share theirs due primarily to the very powerful danger from china, which has now increased many times, but to influence partners, now there is such a regrouping of forces in the world, and really, whichever side regroups faster, that side will have the advantages, and actually speaking, all strategic matters will probably be decided by september 24th, maybe by october, and this requires a lot dynamic changes

in decision-making and their implementation, i.e.... changing these systems, which we are talking about now. so, the conclusion is to divide not only patriot, but also other systems, and secondly, to persuade, to transfer not only what is there somewhere in warehouses, conditionally, storage, but to transfer what is currently in the troops, to share. then there is another proposition to discuss when russia struck gas storage facilities. daggers, other systems, then this gave rise to such an idea, perhaps in some way to integrate the interaction of our air defense system and the defense system of poland, perhaps this can be another such step to make the air defense shield over our country more powerful, what do you think about such initiatives, decisions, proposals? the idea is certainly

interesting, but i do not believe that nato will agree to such a move. because in fact, if we are talking about the use of polish patriot systems, directly from the territory of poland, then this will create a situation where in russia they will call what general mili, the former, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, who is still being listened to , warned about very much, he said, at first the turn will not reach... a kinetic collision between the nato systems and the russian ones, here exactly this will happen, so to speak, a violation of this and this situation and de facto it will be considered that poland has entered the war, it would certainly be much better if there were quickly transferred,

well, a certain number of patriot systems to the territory of ukraine and... then this would allow to avoid exactly such a threat to nato, although i say this from the position of the general panorama of the war. undoubtedly, it would be a much better decision for ukraine, if it were the polish ones systems began to be knocked down, yes, and then we would feel more protected, and... and actually, we would feel that nato, well, actually supports us not only with weapons, but also with very specific actions, then intelligence data would be added, the protection of the ukrainian sky would be added, of course, this step would be revolutionary, but so far i do not really believe in it, as regards the strikes on our

underground gas storages and... on power plants, and as regards our strikes on russian refineries, about the systems that process oil, in fact now the situation looks like a certain initial stage, and the result will depend on who will stop this scaling, i want to say that at the beginning of april... well, western analysts drew attention to the fact that russia began to strike more precisely, and uses not , no,... keeps and uses very expensive high-precision ballistic missiles for such purposes and at the same time aims at weakly defended areas where

it has not previously aimed, in fact ukraine does the same, chooses such fan attacks, high-precision, well, there are a lot of targets for ukraine there is already drones that fly for 1,500 kilometers and ukraine is doing the same, but the question now is scaling, who will have time to scale these attacks and, let's say it like this, exhaustion, exhaustion of the enemy, because there are these completely justified positions that russia is also operates on the border, and the task that the kremlin is now setting, it concerns... today, literally today, and the calculation is definitely on a swiss- to-swiss dialogue, on the fact that

a serious conversation about freezing the war will begin in switzerland, and there are great hopes that , that participation in this, in this part of china , can lead to positional gains for the kremlin. yes, this is definitely a danger for us, and that is why this political part of the war is extremely connected with what is happening on the battlefield, and therefore the fact that ukraine is accelerating the scaling of high-tech means of destruction and intelligence is definitely gives a certain impetus and certain hopes that at some stage ukraine. the defense forces will be able, even without the powerful participation of the western coalition, to hold the front and to some extent destroy it

russian defense potential, but the exhaustion of our infrastructure remains a really big problem, because we know that only the strikes from march 22 to today caused more damage in... than the whole winter before that, yes, until march 22. mr. valentin, thank you very much for your explanations, for those accents that relate to the directions of changes in our air defense system, thank you very much for your important comments. let me remind you that it was valentyn badrak, director of the army, conversion and disarmament research center, military analyst and writer. and then we will talk about where ukraine can find the patriot air defense system. we know about the initiative of britain and germany to find such air defense systems for ukraine. we will talk about this in the second part of our program after the advertising and information block.

events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives, of course, the news channel reports about them. however, it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, simulating ours future. every saturday at 13:10 with a repeat at 22:00. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. we continue our program "war and weapons" and talk about the fact that ukraine needs to strengthen air defense systems and... countries, in particular germany and great britain , volunteered to help with the search for the patriot air defense system, and before that, the president of ukraine and the minister

for... them they talked about a certain number of air defense systems, which is at least necessary to cover our cities from russian attacks. and now we are joined by a military expert, chief editor of the defense express information and consulting company, oleg katkov. mr. oleg, i welcome you to the espresso channel. good afternoon, thank you for the invitation. i'll start with the president's statement made a few days ago, where it was said that ukraine needs at least 25 patriot systems, then the minister of foreign affairs talked about at least seven patriot air defense systems. explain to our viewers how many we have now, and this seven and 25, are these significant numbers compared to what other countries in europe have that own this weapon? regarding the number of patriots in ukraine, you can rely on

exclusively public information, which has been repeatedly published. were announced , it is about the fact that ukraine received one patriot from the usa, another from germany, germany and the netherlands were also brought together for two, and from that we are already talking about three, but the president of ukraine volodymyr zelensky also said a few months ago that ukraine received two more anti-aircraft defense systems that can shoot down anything that wasn't meant to be, but the point is that when it comes to co'. air defense complex, which can shoot down everything, this means that it can effectively counter both direct ballistic missiles and aerodynamic targets such as aircraft, under this category falls only from the available and from the available only two complexes, this is the patriot itself, because it is effectively works both against such things as the iskander and against aircraft, which has been proven many times by the so-called blocking patriot, and the samps, but in relation to the samps, the fact is that during all this time, after

quite long talks, italy with these two big countries were only able to beat france single out one complex, and therefore, and it was quite public, so it is unlikely that they would do it again, much less two at once, and it certainly would not be a secret, given the position and publicity of rome and paris in this matter, so rather after all, ukraine still has a little more than three patriot batteries, and the question of which patriots themselves are very, very important questions, because... there are objectively now in service in nato countries, including and and there are generally two types of patriot around the world: patriot pak-2, which uses only james missiles, which are effective it fights precisely with aircraft, high-altitude aerodynamic targets, the range is 160 km, and there is a third pak, which has anti-missile capabilities and allows you to shoot down ballistic missiles such as iskander, shoot down kenjals and even with a circus, that is, this is

the third pak, and it can also of course work . therefore, while we can only say approximately that ukraine has three tere five, probably, patriot systems, not all of them may be paktret, we know exactly 100% about three, but relative to the number of patriots in, for example, nato countries, then recently joseph borel at the summit of the forum of europe, he directly said that the western armies, i.e. the western world, are nato and the usa. plus the european segment of nato, then we are talking about the fact that in general there are about 100 batteries, batteries per khatayu, this is actually an anti-aircraft missile complex, because batteries are such an organizational staff structure, but if you take exactly how many batteries of patriots, then there is one, which usually consists of a unit, one command post, six or eight launchers, again , this configuration is rather vague, we we are talking about a modern digital anti-aircraft missile complex, so the number

of launchers can be changed, as well as... usually on the smaller side, some countries cannot afford such a number of launchers in one patriot battery, there, for example, sweden, it orders only from a limited number of launchers, a third or four, and japan is also far from a poor country, it has five launchers per battery, but if we talk about nato countries, we are talking about about 100 batteries, to be more precise according to the available information , then we are talking about 95, of them, 60 is without... the average in the us and 35 to 35 is what europe has, and these 35, they are quite conditional, so it's better to talk more about 30, because now some countries are just in permanent acquisition of additional patriot systems, for example, such as sweden, such as romania, poland, but there it is too, let's say so, it has a plan to increase the number of fronts, we already

have two, two'. a strong team, they are about...