consideration of the bill on mobilization, they will, unfortunately, objectively not contribute to the strengthening of ukraine's defense capability. well, tomorrow we are waiting for the actual adoption of the decision, as they say that it will obviously be april 11 tomorrow, let's see if the parliament will still vote, because there are committee amendments, and i understand that the committee amendments will be supported. all the other 400 amendments are now on the ballot, but they are not getting the required number of votes. let's talk more about the signal that arrived, which was sufficiently important, eloquent, as to me, from the united states of america, from the secretary of defense of the united states of america , lloyd austin, who has warned kyiv against strikes on russia's oil refining industry, he says that ukraine's attacks on oil refining...

inputs in russia could affect global energy markets and called on ukraine to focus on attacks on military targets, this statement, frankly, i think, gives a complete answer to why the congress does not vote to help ukraine, why everything is happening as it should happen, and why ukrainians do not receive enough weapons from our western partners, in particular from the americans, because they do not... consider the option of strikes by the ukrainian military on those enterprises that help the russian army to wage an aggressive war against ukraine. austin says to focus exclusively on military objectives, but again, that requires attackmen and some pretty serious weapons. is this statement of the minister of defense. of the united states of america,

well, it is iconic, and does it give an understanding, and what, what does the united states of america want next? of course, it is symbolic, and you know, i am glad that it was heard, although there later austin said that ukraine has a chance to preserve its independence and so on, but spare a word, our western partners stopped being idiots, they directly... called things their own names, is it not profitable for them, although the refineries produce gasoline, and ukraine does not have the opportunity to hit their oil production towers, right? but what is the matter here? i want to recall, i want to recall the words that sounded in relation to ukraine, ukrainian servicemen, earlier. when

the transfer of the patriot to ukraine was discussed, remember, we were told that the ukrainians are not sufficiently prepared to quickly master petry, the ukrainians are not sufficiently prepared to quickly master hyman. we're hearing now that ukrainian pilots, for a long time we've been hearing that ukrainian pilots are not trained enough to master the f-16. so we are returning to the times when... you can talk about the burden of an overseas person, well, i can't say white, because austin is black-skinned, that is, we again have first-class military men, american and lower-class all the others, well , the logic is roughly the same, the truth and that is, well, i think... that this shows that western

politicians did not draw conclusions from the lessons of the second world war and the front of the second world war, they did not draw conclusions from what was called the munich conspiracy, today is the anniversary of the hanschluss of austria, the annexation of austria. they did not draw conclusions from this, they think that appeasing the aggressor is appropriate. i do not idealize the state of ukraine. i live in this state like you and millions of others our fellow citizens and millions of our viewers, but this does not mean that we should be made into sycophants just because western politicians are simply afraid. putin, and are afraid

to even admit their fear. it is simply not fair to the thousands of ukrainians who died in the struggle. with the russian invasion, and this certainly does not mean that the ukrainians would stop in their struggle, i have not heard such conversations that ukraine wants to stop, and how come aristovych is predicting that we, together with russia , will strike in the western the world, but it is his private opinion of a person who is currently outside of ukraine. and i will say something else: in the western world, unfortunately, there is no awareness of one simple thing: the future accession of ukraine to nato will turn nato into a universal mechanism

for deterring war in europe, because the accession of the largest state of the continent with a unique military... experience is simple will create conditions under which a new war will, well, have absolutely no sense. i understand that in speaking with russians it is difficult to talk about there is some logic, some arguments, but this is reality, we are the largest country on the continent, without us there is no europe. the non -euro-atlantic project will not be complete, and instead of realizing this, and instead of the necessary help for the defense of ukraine, we are told that our military cannot master the technology, in our country, sorry,

civilians dragged away russian tanks almost with their bare hands, the first weeks of a large-scale invasion, in those days when... western aid consisted mainly of anti-tank and portable anti-aircraft missile systems, therefore not western for politicians to talk about how and where to hit ukraine, it is, you know, like suggesting to a victim of a robbery or a victim of a beating, to substitute the right cheek or the left side. liver so that it would be more convenient for the attacker to beat us, and against this background, the foreign ministers of france and great britain, stéphane sejournay and david cameron , wrote a joint column for the telegraph, in

honor of the 120th anniversary of the signing of the agreement between the two countries, which is known as the cordial the agreement, or the entente, however, the entente was just as well and e. russia was still in the entente, then, this the fourth, 7th year of the last century, the leaders in it, the exit from the first world war, yes, yes, here, here in this column, which was published, the leaders of the ministry of foreign affairs write that dark times have come in the world, so both countries should take take responsibility and do even more for ukraine's victory over the russian federation, i quote, we are both absolutely unequivocal, ukraine must win this... war, if ukraine loses, we all will lose, the price of not being able to support ukraine now will be much greater than the price of repelling to putin mr. yevgeny, it looks like france and great britain are taking the lead in supporting ukraine at the current stage, because scholz is afraid to attack

taurus, long-range missiles, the united states of america is still delaying allocating aid to ukraine in the amount. 51 billion dollars, and the french and the british are saying that we should give support to ukraine, and ukraine should win this war, but there is not another sentence here that russia must necessarily be defeated, because to fight back against putin and russia must feel or be defeated, that. or lose, these are completely different, in my opinion, concepts, or not? let us not expect from our western partners what they cannot say, at least according to the laws of diplomatic etiquette. neither france nor

great britain is at war with russia, so they can't talk about russia having to lose, well, that would cause a corresponding reaction, i understand. that now is such a time when no one reacts to diplomatic notes, but all the same, we have to promote the algorithm to the world. russia, it's us ukraine, we must talk about the fact that the russian empire, which pretends to be the russian federation, will definitely lose, and its peoples must receive the right to self-determination. this is our duty, because we bear the burden of the war with russia, and only in this way can we do something. to influence, accordingly, this is a situation that is not, it does not fit into

the formula, like honey, like a spoon, and do not forget that britain, mostly a maritime power, i am afraid that the british are now on the verge of their military assistance to us, in france more powerful military industry, she is gradually unfolding. but we need other countries and interaction with other countries, that's why we have to talk about loans with the united states, that's why we have to restore relations with poland and build cooperation with them in the military sphere, that's why we have to be grateful for the ammunition found for us and understand , that the war will not last for two or three weeks, no one can say today exactly when... for a long time, and we must

focus on our own national interests, comparing them, of course, with the position of our partners. thank you, mr. yevgeny, for the conversation, it was yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms. forms, please subscribe to our pages and take part in our survey, today we are asking you about mobilization, whether you support mass mobilization in ukraine, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you watch us on tv , pick up your smartphone or phone and vote, if so 0800 211 381, no, 0800-382, all calls. these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this

vote, and we will actually see whether you, our dear friends, are in favor of strengthening mobilization in ukraine. next, we have oleksandr khara, diplomat, expert on foreign policy and security policy of the center for defense strategies. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good. mr. sergey, thank you for the invitation. first of all, mr. oleksandr, what do you think about mobilization, about strengthening mobilization, since we are asking our tv viewers, so it would be absolutely logical to ask you too, what do you think in general about these, the process that is taking place in the verkhovna rada, regarding the adoption of the mobilization law, regarding how the mobilization system is being built in ukraine? well, of course, this is a difficult question. and there are hardly two answers, i support or do not support, because what other

options could there be, this is the first moment, the second moment, i understand, actually certain, let's say, skepticism in society, against the background of the fact that we see a delay in the help of our western partners, on the basis of the fact that by and large we do not understand a clear new strategy in such conditions, on the one hand europe has consolidated, supports us, on the other hand we ... hear about the crazy plans of the future, perhaps the future president of the united states, that is, for such general conditions, this is one story, and another story, of course, that russia is not going anywhere, and its goal remains the same, it is the destruction of ukraine as a state and, in fact, the ukrainian nation as such, so on the one hand there are no alternatives to strengthen mobilization, on the other hand, i understand that there are these issues, well, of course, that... there is criticism regarding the content of the draft law and

certain exceptions from it, and that is, in the eyes of the public, certain points may not look very fair and cause such criticism, that we simply do not have any options on how to defend the state further, but in what modality, it is clear that there can be a discussion here, and it seems that this discussion is already being developed by the secretary of defense of the united states. american lloyd austin, who is at a meeting of the united states senate committee on armed services forces, advised ukraine not to attack russian oil refineries, but to focus on military objectives. let's hear what... lloyd austin said. of course, these attacks could have consequences for the global energy situation. i think it is better for ukraine to focus on strikes on tactical and operational targets that can directly affect the current hostilities. mr. alexander, what is

lloyd dostin afraid of? i don't think that he personally, these theses that. were formed and agreed upon in the white house by strategists, actually lloyd austin was and remains one of the biggest, most powerful such engines in the administration, who understand the dangers of ukraine, want to help, and what he voiced, well, in principle, this is a truism, it is clear that russia is a quite important country for the global market in terms of energy, and of course any fluctuations in the price of oil globally can of course affect. on the ability or willingness of our partners to help us, and most importantly now during the elections in the united states, you can imagine that a few extra cents per gallon of gasoline in at american gas stations, they will certainly not add to the positives of the current administration, by and large he says such things, as part of the strategy, the failed strategy of

the biden administration, which is that you cannot push russia to escalate. the development of nuclear weapons or an attack on a nato member country, and then, accordingly, there may be, let's say, unforeseen consequences, and the second is the failure of russia, that is, the collapse of the regime and the possible disintegration of the russian federation, and all the forks are helping us to we are not could use western weapons on russian territory, this is the first point, and the second point, of course, is that we do not transfer the war to russian territory, but on the other hand, what can they do to us now? when we are fighting for our survival, and at a time when, on the one hand, the strategy of containing ukraine, it has failed, we see that, and most importantly, this administration is unable to provide ukraine with other things, such as air defense, to defend our sky, and well somehow continue the war, that's why he

he simply said, stated an absolutely understandable thing, but on the other hand, he would not stop. our right, in fact, from the point of view of international law, these refineries that supplied fuel for the armed forces of the russian federation, they are a legitimate target, that is, it is not a civilian, purely civilian object, well , by and large, you know that very intelligently our, our defense forces have chosen the targets, we do not destroy, well, actually the oil infrastructure, they can sell crude oil to the foreign market and... that way the price does not fluctuate much, but we destroy processing capabilities that can be used and are used specifically for the purpose of waging this aggressive war. i am not talking about the history of wars involving the united states, where they also attacked the oil infrastructure, and this is understandable, because without top fuel it is impossible to use

planes, tanks and cars, and it is clear that this is... problematic for continuation if not war, but at least in certain directions of some operations. can what lloyd austin said be one of the conditions for ukraine to open financing to ukraine, which do we expect from the congress of the united states of america? no, unfortunately, there is its own dynamics, and actually according to the visits, according to the results of the visit. secretary of foreign affairs of the united kingdom, mr. cameroon, he met with the possible president of the united states , donald trump. according to the results of this meeting, there was information from trump's office that they discussed the issue of ukraine and trump's plan or efforts to stop the killing in ukraine. that is, it is very consistent with what

we read in the washington post recently about his plan to put pressure on ukraine. that we gave up part of our territories, in exchange, it is not known what, and the second moment is also eloquent, it is that, so, cameron was going to meet with the speaker of the house of representatives in order to convince of the need, both for the united states and for europe , so that america would help ukraine, but such a meeting did not take place, and this is understandable, this is understandable, you know, a rather bold hint, i am not talking about coexistence. one of the key trumpians in the house of representatives, who is threatening the speaker with removal from office, and that very sabbath, which is happening now, if you read on twitter. the accounts of these mages, that is, these trumpians, how they oppose, by the way, a very good article by fensh all times, where

it is actually said that the republican party, well, is actually pro-russian, it has become not only simply broadcasts the propaganda theses of the kremlin, but actually protects the interests kremlin, therefore, in these conditions, it is not that the administration does not want, on the contrary, it wants to accept. to accept this bill and even try to find some kind of understanding, because it is clear that the congressmen do not are going to vote on the same law that was voted on in the senate a few months ago, and now we are waiting for the option, there is brian fitzpatrick's option, a little less defense aid, and there is no economic aid to ukraine, there are two competing bills that would make it possible to put it to a vote . the bill that was voted in the senate, and mike johnson himself says about trump's brilliant idea, about the loan to ukraine, and actually this means that

someone should write this bill, so far it has not been submitted for consideration or committees, or, of course, in the hall, this means that this process is delayed for an unknown amount of time, but on the other hand, well , in fact, time is running out for these with... well, and mike johnson will have to make a decision whether to hold on to his position and actually go down in history as a person who helped the country of the aggressor, who blocked aid, whose conscience is partly the death of ukrainians, will he find some compromise, fighting with part of the trumpians in the house of representatives in order to unblock this process, well for by and large, the majority of votes will be found there. of course, the democrats plus there are republicans who, despite the pressure of trump, the pressure of the trumpians, they support ukraine and are ready to vote for such

a bill. at the same time, mr. oleksandr, information appeared in the washington post about the details of trump's so-called peace plan, which allegedly provides for the transfer of crimea and donbas to russian control, trump's election campaign adviser, jason miller , called it fake. this news, but president zelensky criticized the policy in an interview the expression by the candidate for the presidency of the united states of america, donald trump, of the idea of ​​handing over ukrainian territories to russia in exchange for an end to the war. i will quote mr. zelenskyi. if the deal is that we just give up our territories, and that's the idea, it's a very primitive idea, i need a very strong argument, i don't need a fantastic idea, i need a real idea. because people's lives are at stake, at the same time zelensky noted that he seeks to build a constructive partnership with trump, and recalled that he invited him to

of ukraine, that he conveyed messages to trump, zelenskyi has a long history in communication with trump, we remember how in 2019 they talked by phone, the result of which was the investigation and the beginning of the impeachment procedure of the then president. trump, which did not come to a logical conclusion, but judging by today's rhetoric of both trump and zelenskyi's answers, is it possible to predict now what trump will be like in his second presidency, and whether they will find a common language with zelenskyi and whether the united states of america the trumps will find a common language with ukraine, which does not want to... dig into russia's territories? well, you know, i probably agree with trump officials that this is not trump's plan for the simple reason that i

'm sure trump doesn't have a plan, he has approaches, and we saw that in his first term, how he tried to solve the north korean issue, it seemed to him that with the power of his charisma, some, you know, tricks, he could lure kim chin-in away. and more precisely, to move away from the self-interest of the survival of this regime and the possibility of threats, well, to all neighbors, but also in the same the united states itself. and it seems to me that this is trump's plan, to press and be unpredictable. and of course, in the case of the russian federation, ukraine, it is unlikely that he can achieve any success by putting pressure on putin. therefore, in his mind, most likely he will try to do it with zelenskyi. but i don't think that it can work very well for him for a simple reason: well, first of all, zelenskyi constantly repeats his own formula for peace and the fact that we cannot give up

our own territories. it's perfectly clear but the second point is that the vast majority of ukrainians are not ready for such concessions, since we understand that this will be a pause before the next stage of the war, it will definitely not be any kind of peace, especially since we can get membership in exchange in nato and the european union, well, it is clear that this is impossible in the short term, if it will be in the long term, well, let's imagine it like this, i am not saying that we should agree to any territorial claims, but let's just imagine... . and what can give us, how can the united states guarantee us security, provide nuclear weapons for our own use so that we can deter russian aggression in the rest of the territories, give money, well, they don't want to give us aid and loans, and of course they won't be ready to support ukraine financially, that is, what can be in the form of gingerbread , if they prepare such a solid slide for us. i'm on the pill, so i don't

think it's realistic, i think that ukraine should prepare for pressure from trump if he becomes president, and then when he sees that on the one hand the ukrainians are not leaving to these so-called compromises, and that the europeans, i hope that eventually the europeans will wake up and understand that we are fighting for their interests as well, and so they will support us even if the united states stops adding t support, because there is the moment of ukraine as a principle, and the second moment is ukraine, as a country that destroys the aggressive potential of the russian federation, and gives time to the europeans to prepare for a possible war with the russian federation in order to prevent it, in conditions when trump can reduce american obligations to nato, that is, they may be left alone with the russian federation, under a possible trump administration, and therefore the importance of ukraine

grows even more, i understand. that there is a dilemma, how much to give ukraine ammunition, weapons and other things that we need to continue fighting and how much to invest in our own armed forces, here, but these two things are connected and we cannot say, give everything to ukraine and stay defenseless, and putin cannot be allowed to win in ukraine while trying to concentrate on his own own defense capabilities, well... especially since xi jinping and other authoritarian, totalitarian leaders in the world are watching and it is clear that the loss of ukraine will actually be a semi-loss for taiwan, it is not for nothing that the minister of foreign affairs of taiwan said that not supporting ukraine would be a mistake on the part of of the united states, and there they understand very well that our success is both the success of that and a guarantee that the west as a whole, the states,

in particular, will come to the rescue. thank you. thank you, mr. oleksandr, for the conversation, it was oleksandr khara, a diplomat, an expert on issues of foreign and security policy of the center for defense strategies, friends, during this broadcast we are conducting a poll, today we are asking you about whether you support mass mobilization in ukraine, yes no, now let's look at the interim results of our poll on tv, 66% support mass mobilization, 34% no, on youtube. dads are almost identical: 63% support mass mobilization, 37% do not, the same poll will be in the second part of our program, which starts in 15 minutes. political experts oleksaakyan and victor will be on our air boberenko, let's talk, including about mobilization, about who is trying to book from mobilization and in what way. next we have a newscast from the bbc,

stay tuned. with espresso, we're going back to the studio. after losses in the black sea, the russian military command changes its tactics. at a time when ukrainian forces are attacking the black sea fleet of the russian federation. so, what is ukraine doing and what are the new tactics of the russians, this is what follows. 15 minutes on the bbc from london in the chefemerov studio. the war in the black sea entered a new phase. actually underwater at the moment boats are the only type of vessels that the russians send to the open sea. and this is because of ukrainian strikes, drones and missiles. as reported, the russian authorities have changed the commander of the black sea fleet of the russian federation. according to british intelligence, after the destruction by the ukrainians.