travel book pam and savings. exclusively on the air of our channel. greetings, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: russia's war against ukraine, the war in the middle east, the crisis on the border between ukraine and poland. topics that resonate in our society. drone attack on kyiv and other cities of ukraine, drone attack on moscow and other russian cities. analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us. the country should get the right to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and guests of the project: we are bored, that's why that there is nothing to fight about. let's make it up. they help to understand the present. a project for those who care and

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political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club, every saturday on espresso. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in program minus 6 enemy planes, massive drone attack in rostov. oblast has achieved

its goal. why is the west still against strikes on the territory of the russian federation? in search of the patriots, allies will try to recruit additional air defense systems for ukraine around the world. what other help can be expected from nato. alternative formulas for peace. russia is promoting the chinese format of transition, and nato is discussing the accession of ukraine in return for the relinquishment of the occupied territories. are compromises possible? we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, a major of the armed forces of ukraine special officer ihor lapin and oleg rybachuk, the former head of yushchenko's presidential office. in the second part of our program , my colleagues, the journalism club, will be oleksiy mustafin and andriy yanitskyi. but before we start our big talk, let's watch a video like last night. ukrainian

drones attacked three russian military airfields at once in morozovsk, yesk and engels, let's see how it happened.

friends, during our program we conduct a survey, today we ask you about the following: do you consider mykhailo bulgakov a ukrainophobe, yes no, please vote on our youtube, everything is quite simple there, either yes or no, write your comment under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you consider bulgakov a ukrainophobe, 0800 211 381, no, 0800 2113 82, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, and we have our first guest on the line, this is igor lapin, major of the armed forces of ukraine, special appointee, people's deputy of the eighth convocation, mr. major, i congratulate you, thank you

for being with us today, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, mr. major, let's start our conversation with today's strike, a large-scale drone strike on russian airfields, the main thing in... the intelligence directorate, together with the armed forces of ukraine , organized an operation on the night of april 5, in the framework of which strikes were carried out on three airfields of the russians, in particular in morozovsk, yeysk and engels. it is reported that serious damage received at least three tu-95ms strategic bombers to engels-2 airfields, seven occupants have already died there, among them may be bomber pilots. well, two enemy su-25s were completely burned in yeysk, and there is still talk of destroying another airfield in kursk, the results of this large-scale attack are still being clarified,

do you think the pace of ukraine's transfer of the war to the territory of russia is sufficient? oh, well , of course, you know, like all ukrainians, i... say, well, of course, i want more, more, more, because, well, frankly speaking, we ukraine is being dismantled into molecules, a large number of territories and infrastructural facilities have been destroyed, recently we also know about dniproges and everything, well, that is , the russians are engaged in such terrorist attacks on civilian infrastructure, we, in turn, take out, try to extract what we can get it, thank god, i am pleased with the range. these injuries, it makes me very happy, i am happy that our drones are working accurately, so there is to some extent the possibility of countering the russian e-e means of rebu, and therefore, it means that we are on the right track development, yes, it is not yet, so to speak, this

magical silver bullet for that vulture, the russian military, but nevertheless, these are the first signs that we can work, of course... well, chasing planes on airfields - these are super topics, especially if they accumulate there, well, until the last they were, so to speak, relaxed, but now of course the russians will try to counter such attacks, and we must also understand this, so we can in this story to improvise, then we worked at oil refineries, now we went to airfields, well, ihor lapin has been sitting here and dreaming for several months about the novorossiysk transshipment base for russian... petroleum products and the port infrastructure of russia, because that's where the money goes, and if that's where the oil goes from there, and that's where the money goes in russia , and if there is money, then they can rebuild, they can purchase, and again attack ukraine, the most important thing is that

the transfer of the war to the territory of the aggressor's country is a priority task, which we should have today to achieve as much as possible, and second moment, us we need a harvest. well, let's say so, the carriers, well, if we're talking about the planes now, that's great, but in general, we need to think about how we can hit their launchers, from where they fire such missiles like the s-300, at the border areas, kharkiv region or zaporozhye, there or the same dnipro and so on, that is, we need to try to achieve further results and also develop our missile program, because the drone flies for a very long time, and of course. no launcher will stand there for a day and wait for it to come a drone will fly, so we need to work on the development of the missile program and on the release of additional missiles, well, we have a good analogue of hymers, the same vilha missile,

well, of course, the range there is not so great, but scientists said that it is possible to increase it, i remember i'm talking about these conversations, we also have the capabilities of the neptune missile, which can be reconfigured to work not only on... the peregrine that can beat program very far, and this also needs to be completed. because it was ready, well, it was already 75% ready for a long time, well, time goes by, the war continues and it should not be abandoned either, that is why today's successes, i congratulate, sincere thanks, i sincerely say, when it is necessary to criticize, we criticize, but when it is necessary i would like to thank the main directorate of intelligence, the security service of ukraine, they did a great job here. the president of estonia, alar karis, considers ukraine's attacks on military targets on the territory of the russian federation to be legal, if they are. with strikes on ukrainian civilians and energy facilities, he said this

during a meeting with the prime minister of ukraine denys shmyhal, the press service of the estonian leader reports that alar karis says: russia does not set limits for itself during attacks on ukraine, so we do not should limit themselves in providing assistance to ukraine, i consider it completely legitimate strikes by ukraine against the military and other important targets for the conduct of war in the russian body, which... slow down the work of the russian military machine, mr. major, which is necessary in order for ukraine's right to lawful attacks, as said alar karis po of russia, was recognized not only by one state, or there only by the baltic states, or there by poland, but also by the whole world, well, you know, probably experts in the field of diplomacy should say here, but i will say it as a military person, a military person on... a person can say yes, we fight honestly, we fight against the military of russia, we do not fight with civilians,

we are not interested in hospitals, kindergartens, schools there, as a whole, it is true, that is, but we must be interested in the infrastructural facilities of the russian federation , because they are all tied on the russian military-industrial complex, no matter what we do here , in order for the western world to understand our righteousness, they must stop questioning the notion of a legitimate or... illegal goal, which can be i will explain the logic of my, my sentence: our war is just, just, the destruction of the infrastructure that is connected with russian aggression is just, well, since the war is just, then everything is just, because you know, that's how it turns out, yes, if there are legal goals, so then there can be some illegal goals, and let's dance, as he says dances with tambourine around the discussion already, and which of them... can be considered and which cannot be considered, there is a concept of the justice of war. ukraine is defending itself as best it can,

russia is not fighting putin against us, but the russian people are fighting against us. zumbed, not zumbed, this is generally a lyric, the question of who is fighting, putin, putin's regime, or the russian people. the russian people, governed by the putin regime headed by putin, are fighting against us. everything, that is, everything that is on the territory of russia, which can...be used, not what is used there, but can be used for their military-industrial potential or their service to the military and so on, it's starting from wormwood, oil, gas, it doesn't matter, anything, who allows them to bring money into the budget for the manufacture of weapons of ukraine, anything that allows them to give electricity to the factory, also for the manufacture of weapons of ukraine, these are all already legitimate goals, so i believe that the discussion here should stand on the plane, ukraine . has the right to defend himself by all methods or not, so if we transfer this discussion to such a plane

in international politics, then no clerk from the organization of the united nations will tell us about the concern about an attack on russian oil refineries or anything else, well, for example, you understand, otherwise, otherwise nothing it won't happen, well, you all saw that shaheds are made there, the russians themselves said that these students are involved... in the production of shaheds, russian propaganda boasted that they have that factory for the production of shaheds there, please tell me the personnel, dormitories, factory, warehouses with components, is this a legitimate goal for ukraine or not? that's all, if this is a legitimate goal, then we should stop these discussions in the international arena, and talk only not about legality, but talk only about the justice of waging war on the territory of the aggressor, period, war, this is exactly what ... we destroy the manpower of the enemy, and whether it is a technician who

maintains an aircraft, or whether it is a designer who assembles chess pieces, it does not matter, well, i think so, by the way, as reported by reuters, with reference to the conditions of anonymity official representative of nato, ukrainian strikes on oil refineries in russia could disable about 15% of russian oil production capacity. processing, while pentagon spokesman pat ryder said that the united states of america did not supply ukraine with the means with which the defense forces hit oil refineries and other facilities on the territory. russia, let's listen to what he said. the aid we provide to ukraine is intended to help it defend its sovereign territory and regain its territory. we do not provide any assistance for use by beyond that. i would advise you to visit ukraine to learn about these operations.

of course, our focus is on them being able to protect themselves. mr. major. and why is the united states of america so afraid that russia's oil refining industry will stop? well, look, i didn’t hear that they were afraid there, even specialists already understood that the russian oil refining industry in no way affects the global trend of energy prices, that is, that this is a drop in the ocean on the scale of, as they say, the world ocean of fuel. why are they afraid, why they are not afraid, well, everything goes on, everything... then we hear the voices of the so-called peace-loving people, who sometimes say that there is no need to irritate putin, there is no need to escalate the conflict, it is necessary to put ukraine at the negotiating table, well, and further on in the text, well these doves of peace are also among the advisers of president biden, who also said that not everything is so clear-cut with russia and ukraine, but i want to say that

the question is not whether the military is afraid or not and whether putin will do something or putin or rhetoric will not do anything. is that what he said, he does. he said that he would transfer nuclear weapons to brest, to belarus, to minsk. he said, handed over - handed over, lukashenko confirmed, confirmed. and what? so, where else should we not escalate or escalate? if it decided to blow up kakhovskaya, it blew it up. if it brought tnt to the zaporizhzhya nuclear power station, sooner or later it will blow it up. if it says that i transferred tactical nuclear weapons for lukashenka, sooner or later he will ... transfer them to anyone, because in principle the system of collective security has stopped working, and putin goes around and, i'm sorry, scares the whole world with a nuclear club. i emphasize once again, the world must understand that the sooner ukraine deals with putin, the less likely putin will do anything. in order for ukraine to deal with putin, i mean with the russian army,

everything on the territory of ukraine must be completely destroyed. then putin won't have it. only the potential that he would be able to restore, and if the russian army on the territory of ukraine will hold its borders and also seize new ones, then at this time, when the world will to think about whether to give ukraine the good or not, that's why they don't give ukraine, for example, missile systems there for attacks to destroy the crimean bridge, that's why, i can't understand why, so that the crimean bridge continues to drive crap, which is then launched from crimea on the territory of odesa, for example, yes, well, this is not normal, and there are a lot of such things, here are taurus missiles, then scholz said that they do not have enough taurus missiles, the manufacturers say, but we will slander them to you overnight , you place the order, by the way, taurus manufacturers have stopped the production of rockets, because there's no order, that's all, so when he says something's missing, it's not true, and when american so-called friends like lynsey graham come and say

he's quiet about guns, but you have to mobilize the kids at the prom in school, as he said, since the age of 18. well, if you consider that our children study at school, as they say, in fact some boys are up to the age of 18, if we take, well , depending on when he went to school there, then that summonses should be distributed already at the school graduation, and in at the same time is very modestly silent about the fact that the united states, of course, are with us until the end, that is, of course, up to ours as much as necessary and so on, but american aid has not been coming since november, and all these statements are related. of course with their internal political discussions, maybe sometimes fearing their own population that putin will attack, they incite in this way not to criticize their decisions regarding aid to ukraine, well, for example, is it happening there in germany or in poland, maybe here is the question, you know, let's say this , diplomats should speak more here, and not military, so i am not an expert in the field

of diplomacy, i can only express my point of view as a citizen, well, at the level of my knowledge, well, but you are definitely a specialist in the question of whether we need foreign troops on the territory of ukraine or not, because nato secretary general jen stoltenberg, after the meeting of the ukraine-nato council, once again stated that the alliance has no plans to send troops to ukraine, and kyiv did not ask for it, let's hear what stoltenberg said. nato is not a party to the conflict, and nato will not be a party to the conflict. but nato supports ukraine, to help her protect herself. there are no nato combat units in ukraine and we have no plans to do so. we will also not receive... any requests for this, but the ukrainians ask for equipment, ammunition, weapons, and we provide them to ukraine, this does not make nato members a party to the conflict, but we support

ukraine's legitimate right to self-defense. mr. major, is it still possible to ask for the help of nato troops in addition to weapons? to this day, i cannot understand why president zelensky does not... ask for the help of nato troops, why the parliament of ukraine does not vote for such an appeal, i cannot understand, well, you understand, if we are talking now about an appeal to nato, it is possible one story, okay, let’s not appeal to nato, so that nato troops, but there is a position of each country separately, namely , for example, the position of france, denmark, the baltic countries, finland, canada, they said that they are considering such an issue, but again sooner or later they will. but i think they will consider it more actively if there is an official appeal from ukraine, i can't understand why no, i’m sorry, well, i’m just blown away by

this lack of action in the context, well , president zelensky doesn’t need, unnecessary help, well, look, let’s be frank, for example, the patriot systems together with the specialists, with the units that serve them, could would occupy the territory of lviv oblast. and hold the lines, and there are also some french specialists there together with sampty, for example, they would go to the kharkiv region, well, kharkiv is shooting there, they are flying in, well , let's go, okay, not to the kharkiv region, let's go to zaporizhzhia, a little further they would become zaporozhye and make an umbrella over the city, it would be a god-pleasing thing, odesa, please, well, there is, there is somewhere to go, well, and it could go to some unit, roughly speaking, to france, then, i... saw the problems in nato at the time when the french legion entered africa, there are 10,000 personnel there , we have already discussed with you, their commander is general kyrylo yushchenko, here i am, i

would not mind if they strengthened our western, our the northern border with belarus, and thus freed our units sitting at the border there, so that they could rotate the guys around the time of yar, for example, it would be a god-pleasing thing, i can't... i can't understand why president zelensky doesn't make such an appeal, not only that, in his interviews he says, as he said there, that ukraine fight and don't worry, french people, your children won't fight with us as long as we fight, well, okay, and we can fight forever, well, you understand, we have problems with mobilization, we have problems with personnel, with equipment , and again, problems with trained personnel, if we are talking about planes, relatively speaking, which should be given to us by f-16, then for each one of these... there needs to be at least 10-20 service people there, why couldn’t some aircraft maintenance unit come here, it’s not the front line, it’s

the rear the unit would be, he would sit in the rear somewhere at the airfield and so on, he could serve with his specialists, service f-16 aircraft. no, well, there is an option, we can send ours to study abroad for another six months, and in this way we will have fewer specialists in other fields, well, this is wrong. so i i believe that president zelenskyy should make such an official appeal personally to each country that has expressed support on this matter, or at least started a discussion, or to all countries, not at once, as to the nato bloc, but simply in a separate appeal, and let someone support us, and it will make our struggle easier, because, sorry, we already have a war, it is already going on, already, well, i'm sorry, the 11th year, well, we, we, we already live in a war, we already have those children, who went to... school there in the 14th year, went to some fifth grade there, already today are fighting in the war, well, this is the same generation, you understand, yes, and in the future, well, there will be several more

years of war, there will still be refugees, and the most terrible thing is that our women, who went there with their children, the children there study in school, if the war drags on for longer, they will finish school there, enter college there, and then mom will say: that's it, so many years have passed, son, yes... come on, take your wife, take your children, my grandchildren, and we are going to ukraine, to restore it, my mother will say, our, why, i will go there, i am temporarily here in spain, in i'm fine, i'm a woman, i have a child, i work for a company, why am i going to ukraine now, i've lived here for 15 years or 10 years, you understand, that is, this discussion can develop in this context, that we need to break that crap faster , which we have gathered here, and then our children will return faster, because we are losing. you understand, we can be so humble, well, i don't know how to call it in other words, that we will be able to restore the state, and restore the nation... it may

happen that there will be no possibility, therefore that the average life expectancy in ukraine used to be 67 years before the war, in my opinion, before the full scale, and now it is 57 years, well, let's go to war a little more, and our demographic crisis will be very serious, so how will we save the nation, if we we will prolong that war, well, of course, not everything depends on us, but i did not hear that anyone during the second world war refused to open the second one. was under the soviet union , there was the same normandy neman, the pilots worked and so on, i did not hear that anyone refused, i cannot understand why the president still hasn't appealed, we remember the president's appeals, the sky over ukraine is closed, we all said about it, well , well, it's one thing to appeal, there must be an official paper of appeal, please send it la-la-la , so much, so much of this and

that, so... such and such specialists, such and such equipment, well, for example, there is already a whole office in yermak, who can correctly compile this paper in that language , on which it is necessary, well, i’m already saying this by way of example, so as not to ruminate in more detail in the details, well, in the background of this, the head of the president’s office ukraine's andriy yeermak said that the blow that ukraine has suffered in the past three weeks is part of russia's campaign to prepare for a major offensive, politics, referring to yeermak. writes, or rather quotes him: we know that putin is preparing a new wave of mobilization, we believe that new russian counteroffensive operations may begin at the end of may or the beginning of june. of course, we should be ready for it. we still critically need additional air defense systems, because without them we will not be able to protect our own city ​​- he said. at the same time, denys shmyhal in an interview with the estonian tv channel irr said

that - the army does not need to mobilize 500,000 people now, the mobilization in ukraine will be much milder. let's hear what shmigel said. the president and i are monitoring the situation, we have changed the commander in chief, he has conducted an audit of the defense forces, rotations have begun on the front line for the first time since the start of the full-scale invasion. we understand that not so many people are needed now, so the mobilization will be much softer. i think during this year we will complete all the necessary tasks for the mobilization of ukrainians. we have new brigades, they are manned, but we are waiting for equipment, military equipment and ammunition from partners. when these all arrive, new brigades will be manned and we will significantly increase our combat power. mr. major, zelenskyi and yarma are talking about the fact that

the russian offensive is inevitable, it is june. may, they emphasize this, what do you think the actions of the ukrainian authorities should be, why do they say, some say that the offensive is inevitable, the prime minister says, well in general, 500,000 people do not need to be mobilized, we will get by with a smaller number, and in general, well, this is not what we are talking about, well, look, zelenskyi, by the way, also said at the press conference that 5,000 military personnel were invited, but for us, let me justify, i so... i understood that the military led by syrsky did not justify the need for 500,000, well, that's it, if you believe the words that shmyhal says, that president zelensky says, that irmak says and everyone else says. look, i want to tell you without any complaints, but nevertheless, today the battles are already taking place near the eastern part of the town of chasivya. and...

i kept to the verbs, then if everything is so good with us, well, then i can't understand why everything is so bad with us. the second point is that there are brigades that are already rotating, and of course there is, well, 110 there, for example, was lying in avdiivka without an exit, impassable, with no way out, for several years, and it was torn to shreds there , so they are now on rotation, of course, but what was there to leave, you don't remember how many people were left in the units we... you have said this many times, the staffing needs to be better, if shmyhal has people, but no weapons, then i will tell you a few units where there are no people, but there are weapons, well, everyone has kalash, the infantry is quiet in the trenches, we need shells, shells go, so there are shells.