certain fluctuations, as a certain weakness, and on which mr. putin would like to make money. in response , i will say two things. first, when ukraine becomes a member of nato, ukraine should expect that the fifth article fully applies to it, that any future, potential threat to ukrainian territory will mean a military response. this is the first. that's why i didn't talk about what the emasculation of the fifth article could mean, it will be bad for ukraine and for those members of the alliance that are closer to russia. first, the test of the fifth article, we have already seen that there are countries that are ready to stand side by side with ukraine for real, and there are those that are not ready to send their troops today. that's what it's about. actually in the fifth article, the fifth

article doesn't really specifically call for this deployment of troops, but i would like our enemies to know what the actual deployment of troops would mean. this article has already played its role from the point of view of deterrence, but from the point of view of defense, has it played its role, or all members of the alliance must understand that... what the potential russian threat will be will see the introduction of troops. first of all, thank you for this realistic assessment, for talking about alternative possibilities, what we did not see in vilnius, except promises. for now, we can say that there was no offer of membership then.

i would like to ask all the members of our panel the following question: concrete steps that ukraine can plan, whether ukraine will receive a consensus from the washington summit, this will be a strong signal for moscow. ambassador braje, you wanted to start, i wanted to go back to that and to comment previous thoughts is a huge change for nato, and i think it is important that this is required to understand the new nato strategy, we are talking about more military training of command and control, because traditionally we understood that the cycle of peace, conflict and war has changed, risk assessment.

assessment of the possibility of war, today we hear that the alliance has allowed its colleagues to consider the possibility of deploying troops and providing security agencies with appropriate means of response. it indicates what we can and must do, but today we don't start a defense when... the whole context of article 5 starts to talk, the context has completely changed, we have to make article 5 not apply, you remember the context of our history, when actually the fifth article, so to speak, has been applied, although the actual application has never been, so we see that the whole position, philosophy and strategy of nato ...

readiness to prevent, early warning and the ability and ability to defend and deter, right here for ukraine, i think lies the heart of this position, actually, ukraine is not a member of nato, but as such our defense plans also apply to ukraine, but our decisions are always based on consensus... this is a completely new reality and a new decision-making structure, less so, today what ukraine, how it cooperates with the nato command, with the military, with civilian structures, from the point of view of complexly different problems. we know that there will come a time in the future when the geopolitical the situation

will require our intervention, we do not know when will remain, we have done everything that depends on us, in order to be ready, we are always ready. the center of gravity belongs to nato, but it is also important for ukraine to show dignity. we have already seen such an active discussion about what dignity is, what democracy is for ukraine. and at the same time maintaining unity, we must understand that it is important to achieve this in ukraine as well, it will help ukraine to keep pace with nato. we saw on the flags presented here that ukraine is located

between the european union and nato. we must remember that our civil society should know everything that russia is always looking at us. common interests, and this lies at the heart of unity and democratic society in ukraine, we will not give in to russian temptations of internal strife, we must remember that european security and peace are at the heart of our vision for the future. thank you. ambassador shcherba, i would like to address you. we talked about the... aspect that can prevent war, but we have to be prepared for the deterrence mechanisms to fail, and then we will talk about the actual introduction of troops,

in accordance with the fifth article of nato. you, as a citizen of poland and as a politician, you understand... the unwillingness to speak about the will of the alliance to fulfill its obligations under the fifth article, you as a representative of poland, as a representative of the eastern flank of the alliance, do you think that this is undermined aspect? the fifth article is, we want it to be the heart of the meeting in washington, during our... this is the idea to hold political, parliamentary talks before

the summit, where the leaders of the alliance will meet, for it is self-evident to me, ukraine needs without... at the same time, we must emphasize that since the vilnius summit we have seen a lot that has happened, ukraine is getting closer to nato every day, we cooperate in various formats, but i emphasize once again that the priority of ukraine there should be that... the path of reforms, that's why we also propose to start a center of democratic stability to help the candidate countries, bosnia and herzegovina, ukraine, georgia, and in order for

them to walk confidently on this path, we want , so that the leaders of the states, leaders parliaments and governments. decided whether they are interested in such a development, we once again emphasize our desire to redouble our efforts to help ukraine become a member of the alliance, agree with all those who spoke today and emphasized the importance of consensus: our organization is based on the basis of consensus, such a consensus cannot easy to achieve, we are aware that we have been witness... the ratification problems when it came to the membership of finland, sweden, we have to do our homework, we have to explain our problems, we have to to push their partners, such as

hungary, for example, to do, to complete their homework. the main thing, the washington summit should emphasize. the progress ukraine has made since vilnius, and ukraine must be ready for what the membership negotiations will offer, is the most important thing. what we can reach a consensus on, for me personally, as a parliamentarian, for the nato parliamentary assembly, we have to take a more significant step, namely, as i said, 110 days before the start of the washington summit, we still have an opportunity develop a political consensus. glory to ukraine,

this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. during the next hour, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war and our victory, today in the program. russian missile terror continues, zelenskyy asks to strengthen ukrainian air defense and promises retaliatory strikes, whatever capabilities the armed forces have for this. for ukraine and the strengthening of european defense, are the eu leaders holding a security summit in brussels, are they talking about the introduction of troops into ukraine, the formula for victory: world leaders offer different ways to end the war in ukraine, is the west ready to end putin's regime? we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, people's deputy of ukraine oleksiy honcharenko, general igor roman'. and political expert ihor reiterovych. however, before starting our big

conversation, i suggest you watch a video of how the russians attacked kyiv tonight with two ballistic and 209 cruise missiles. they were all destroyed, the air force said of the armed forces of ukraine, but the debris caused fires in residential buildings. let's see how it all turned out. the merciless destruction of ukrainians and the attack

on the civilian population, which was simply sleeping, thanks to our air defense forces, which ensured that the rocket did not hit the house, but only its downed part, so it is thanks to this that we are alive. there were cars on fire, it exploded, everything , cars were on fire, i came back again, took carriers, tried to find cats, but did not find them, many thanks to those who shot down these rockets. glory to the anti-aircraft forces of ukraine, well

those who helped eliminate the consequences of this missile attack. friends, we are live on the channel and also on our platforms on youtube and facebook, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, do not forget to subscribe to our channel and vote in our poll, today we ask you about , whether the peace summit in switzerland will bring the end of the war in ukraine closer. yes, no, please vote on youtube with the appropriate button. if you have your own opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video. if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you think that the peace summit in switzerland will bring an end to the war in ukraine (0800-211-381), no (0800-211-3822). all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will summarize it. voting, and we are in touch with oleksiy goncharenko, people's deputy of ukraine, president of the pare committee on

migration and refugees. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. i congratulate you. i know you are in france, where the pare migration committee is currently meeting, preparing a major report for the pare summer session. briefly, if possible, what is discussed at the meeting. migration committee, well, and then we will move on to what is actually being said in france about the war in ukraine and about macron's statements regarding french troops in ukraine, yes. i congratulate you, indeed, now, as the president of the committee on migration of refugees, i conduct this committee, and in france, and therefore this week i work here, and it is very important, on this committee, that's how i for the first time in history, a ukrainian headed it, and i raised the issue, and

a special report of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe on ukrainians will be prepared for the summer session. refugees abroad about what it is called, about their long-term, short-term, long-term support, this is very important, because you and i understand that the issue of millions of ukrainians, unfortunately, has turned out like this today, our fate of ukraine and the fate of millions of people, who were forced to leave ukraine, they, their lives depend very much on how they are supported borders decisions are made, in addition, we see periodically, unfortunately, tragic stories that take place there, so our task is to help ukrainians when they are there, and precisely the parade is one of such tools, and my position as the president of the committee allows these issues raise, which i am actually doing, and indeed now at the june session there should be a response to the report with

such a roadmap for all countries, and of course i will promote there from one side. the issue of continued support for ukraine, ukrainians abroad, this is very important today, remains important, but on the other hand , tools should be developed to help those ukrainians who decide to return home, and this is also a very important topic that we should raise. mr. oleksiy, yesterday you stated that a french military contingent may soon appear in ukraine, in the near future and... and preparations for its dispatch are already being conducted by the french ministry of defense, and france is creating a coalition of allies, which may include poland and the baltic countries, who are talking about such a possibility in france, because in ukraine they are somewhat skeptical about such prospects and believe that, at least the political scientists there and

the political experts who are on our airwaves, that this is macron's struggle for leadership. europe, what are they saying in france itself about this? in fact, this is a super important story and really quite sensational information, because many people in ukraine really did not understand macron’s plan, let’s say this, or in general there they decided yes, that macron said something there, or that, well, okay, something is being said there important, but these are some ideas, by the way. the implementation of which is very far away and it is not at all known whether they will be implemented, whether it is just politics, or it is before the elections to the european parliament, and so on, and i can tell you that in parallel with my main work, let's say that we just spoke, i am meeting here with colleagues, deputies, french politicians, and i came to, well, not an understanding, but i received

very serious information that these are not just conversations, that macron is not just... something said, and this is a concrete plan the creation of a french military contingent that will be stationed in ukraine on a permanent basis, and yes, today there is no question of this contingent entering the war with russia, well, that would simply mean the entry of france into the war, of course we would not be against it, to put it mildly, but it is obvious that there is no question about this today, but it is very serious, all the same, because this, well , first of all, this will be the first such example, we understand with you that certain nato military countries in ukraine appear, performing certain functions, roles , but no country has a permanent contingent, it will be a completely new reality when such a contingent, no matter how many people there will be, 500, 1000, i don’t know, and i don’t have any numbers and at the moment

there aren’t any, but when it appears on a permanent basis and formally already, that is, legally, it... will be very important, firstly, as a definitely symbolic step and a signal for putin, secondly, it will be an absolutely practical thing, because this contingent , according to macron's plan, should be engaged in the training of ukrainians military, and it is obvious that today, when we send our military abroad , to train is a very complicated procedure, time, limited, resources, and when these instructors appear in ukraine, everything will speed up significantly, and for us air defense. well, this is generally important for every ukrainian every day with these constant attacks, so it can have quite practical consequences, moreover, well, this is already a separate topic, here, but that too. with the participation of france, this is being discussed, and the creation of the so-called police mission on the border of ukraine and belarus, which will in fact guard our border with belarus, which is actually

occupied by russia, thereby freeing significant ukrainian forces that are forced there today on the border, well, we are forced to keep them there in order, god forbid, not to miss allow the development scenario. february 22, well, well, this is already a little separate topic, but even like this topic with the french contingent and these four directions, they are already very practical, and will have concrete practical help for the ukrainian military, and how is it see macron? two ways: the first way is the creation of a separate base, well, that is, actually a military base, of nato countries, where there is also a whole coalition, as you correctly said, the baltic countries, scandinavia and some other countries can join it, or the second option is not to create there is a separate location allocated there, but simply this contingent will

be placed where necessary, directly, if training, then at ukrainian military training grounds, in cyber security centers, where air defense is, especially where french is and so on, well, i repeat, it is very important , this cardinal, well, this is the next step , you know, as in the past... there were fairy tales, then behind the fairy tales there were artillery, they followed it up to the missiles, then this will be the next step, when nato troops appear on the territory of ukraine, we need is to cling hand and foot to this idea, to support it, to help it become a reality, because it can have a very serious meaning, without a doubt, meanwhile, national security advisor to the president of the united states of america, jake sullivan, who was there. in kyiv assured that the package american aid in the amount of 60 billion dollars will be broken by the congress. let's hear what sullivan said. i know

there are questions here because of the delay in congress passing the bill that contains the relief package that you rightfully deserve and that president biden fights for every day. the senate has already approved 60 million dollars, now we are working with representatives to approve the aid package. we are sure that we will manage to do it. well, the speaker of the house of representatives of the united states of america, mike johnson, without delay, promised to bring to a vote assistance to ukraine after the resolution of budgetary issues. he did not name the exact terms. we will also listen to mike johnson. it was a very tough negotiation, but now that this process is over, i... as i said before, our focus will shift to the issue of additional funding. there are several avenues we are considering to address this issue. i will not say today what exactly it is about,

but i want you to know that this work was carried out in parallel. however, first we had to agree on an appropriation for the government. having done that, now we we will turn our attention to additional help, and we will not delay it. mr. oleksiyu, when the americans and not. they are talking about the fact that it is necessary, it is necessary to restore this aid and the united states of america, and we will think about the tauruses, what arguments are they lacking, for example, after today's morning rocket attack in kyiv? well, first of all, i want to add, i wrote about that meeting of advisers there a few days ago, i reported that this meeting was going to take place, because you said about sullivan, there was not only sullivan, there were, it was that itself... the format of national security advisers, advisers to the presidents or leaders of governments, states, countries, partners of ukraine, and this is an important

format, and it was held for the first time in kyiv , and indeed the fact that sullivan was there is very necessary, and we are waiting for the decision as to the arguments, well, let's talk about taurus - this is a separate story, and there is a situation that germany... is ready to be a leader in this supply of weapons, in fact, germany is not either, we have to say thank you, because germany has already confidently long ago became the second country in terms of support for ukraine after the united states, and in fact the aid from germany is very large, but as we all remember, every time for germany there is a transition from giving ukraine physical weapons, not fairy tales, to the fact that these weapons include. tanks, then now that these weapons include long-range missiles, well, this is such a very painful process every time, it is connected with many things, with the injuries

of the second world war, but heads. not with the personality of chancellor scholz, he is very himself, you know, he recently gave an interview the cide podcast, so he said everything there, basically, when he compared it , which means we're not the one, well he says someone climbed a tree there, and there are those people who sit below and shout jump, he still , so he will not do it, and there is no need to break his legs, this is his life... philosophy: quietly, quietly following others, not without extra steps and without showing leadership, unfortunately, we will not do anything about it, we can here only to understand, well, that this is the situation, so we will not have from germany, the tauris, until the united states of america gives us long-range attacks, and this is a separate conversation about taurus, well, we have finished it, and as for other countries, well, let's face it, the problem

is big for us now. with only one country, well , of the allies we have, but this is the main country, this is the united states of america, and it is very good that sullivan says this, there are certain, by the way, back in december and er january - i gave such are my predictions and comments, because i was invited to the united states of america, met with congressmen and senators, and i said that a window of opportunity would open for ukraine, and that we should not wait. let me remind you that everyone said in december that everything would be fine by christmas, then in january they said that everything would be fine by the end of january, i then went and said that you know, friends, alas , let's be frank and say that the chances of this are small, and the milestone of importance for ukraine in terms of aid will open at the end of march, at the beginning of april, and it is connected with one thing, only one thing, and

now you are showing the congress of the united states america, with him, the fact is that there are also elections in the usa, or rather, we all know about presidential elections, but there are also elections for congressmen and a third of senators, that is why everything is much better in the senate than in the congress, because only a third of the senate is elected this year, and the entire congress is re-elected this year, and the congressmen, and they also have peculiarities of the american electoral system are such that for 70% of congressmen the main election is not their own national election. when these elections formally take place, and the elections within the party, primaries are so called, i think that many ukrainians have already understood this system, but it also works for congressmen, roughly speaking, if you are a republican in texas, then the elections within the republican party itself are much more important to you, because if you are elected there, then there is no way a democrat will beat you there in most counties in texas, or vice versa, if you're a democrat in

new york, for you too... elections are elections within your party, not what 's next, and that's what it's all about now, and finally in march , these primaries have been held since the beginning of march, and they have already gone through a certain process part of the american states, they will last until august, so finally these primaries are over and some of the congressmen, republicans have finally become, well, let's say, exhaled, because of trump's position as a presidential candidate, which absolutely already is.. . a precisely defined candidate, they were even afraid to ask questions and support ukraine, as one of my comrades, such an influential republican, told me: well, i understand everything, i am very sorry, but until i pass my primaries, i will not do anything for ukraine, because one tweet from trump and the election is over for me, and there were many of them, and now they are gradually starting from this, some of them are coming out, i'm sorry it's taking a long time, but you have to understand this when people are waiting for

tomorrow, here day after tomorrow. there won't be those the day after tomorrow, but really in early april, because now congress is going to break up, they 've voted on their own domestic funding for the united states, and in early april, when they go back to work, that's a real opportunity for us to finally vote on a package aid, there is still a big question as to what it will be, whether all 60 billion or 47 billion will be military aid, or whether there will be credit, because before that, the united states of america, by the way, is a single country. well, not the only one, but well, the biggest one, they gave us money, and they gave us weapons anyway without return, and they also gave us money as a gift, for example, europe gives us money on credit, we have to understand this, it’s real, well, today it’s almost for us it doesn't matter, but in general it's a big difference, as you and i understand, so what and how will we still be there we'll see, and maybe there will be some changes, well , not in our favor, but in general, it's really about...