[000:00:00;00] situation, today i want to casually say that today is andrew's day, so of course i congratulate all andrews on this holiday, and i also want to remember that today is november 30, when students were brutally beaten and dispersed on the maidan, so let's celebrate the holidays, but don't forget -what pages of our history, of course everyone have a good comfortable weather on the espresso channel. this is the best, goodbye for tomorrow, then the verdict, let's watch together, good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine,

this. the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, our victory, and everything that interests you, our dear viewers, in today's program. burnt on bribes, four judges of the kyiv court of appeal were exposed by nabu at once, what to do with officials with dirty hands? is it a planned campaign or not? the conflict that is actually happening between zelsky and zaluzhny, and why won't the president put an end to it? ukraine's path to nato, how to move closer to joining the alliance? about this and about we will talk about the rest over the next hour with people's deputy of ukraine iryna herashchenko, american diplomat kurt walker and ukrainian diplomat oleksandr khara. in the second part of our program, which

will start literally in an hour, there will be... maria ionova, andriy osadchuk and serhiy taran. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of the destruction of the location of the deployment of drone operators of russian troops on the left bank of the kherson region, let's watch. friends, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube, please subscribe to our channel page, like this video, and also take part in our survey, over the next two hours, we ask you this, are the ukrainian authorities demonstrating

today? unity yes no please vote on youtube it's very easy there if you have an opinion about this please leave it in the comments below this video if you are sitting in front of the tv pick up your phone and vote on 0800 211 381 if you see the unity the government is showing today, if not 0800 211.28 382, call, all calls to these numbers are free, and we have: people 's deputy of ukraine iryna gerashchenko on call, ms. iryna, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our conversation. good evening to all viewers of espresso. mrs. iryna, it is not for nothing that we ask today about the unity of the ukrainian government, and we will ask you too, because we ask our tv viewers what they think, and what does the person who is in power himself think, is there

unity in the ukrainian government today? i don't want to scare the viewers of espress and i would really like it to be, but yesterday on the long-awaited ukraine nato ministerial council, when high-ranking nato officials come out to the briefing and say, yes, we know that ukraine has a military plan, refuting the nonsense of some people's deputies, it is of course very shameful for everything, and it seems that today we all have to do ... you know, stop, and do everything so that there is not a facade , there is real unity both in the government and between the military, military-political leadership, you know, it is not in vain that i ask about what is happening now in the ukrainian government, because literally for today, colleagues from tokyo called me twice from brussels, and a japanese journalist took my comment, and

my colleague from brussels called and asked. what is happening in your ukraine and the questions both there and there, what just struck me was what is happening now between zaluzhny and zelsky, i was honestly very surprised by the set of questions from one journalist and another, but it honestly struck me that is now happening between the supreme commander and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine? i'm not a gossip you know, unlike some of the deputies there, who allow themselves, like diarrhea from morning to night, to rant on social networks, like some kind of gossip, but i am very alarmed by such questions and information, and you know, i read, just like you, well, i look at the international media, and i am afraid that there is less information about ukraine, we see that due to the events in israel in the gaza strip, the world situation has changed and the attention of the world

is shifting there a lot, and it seems that we need to make maximum efforts to to keep ukraine's attention to russian aggression federation, their crimes in ukraine in order to keep this support together. and at the same time, as you can see, in recent weeks, yes, on the contrary, the articles refer not so much to russian aggression as to possible strife within ukraine itself, it seems to me that this is very dangerous, i believe that we should not play along with it all together, and i i am convinced that in your comments to colleagues, you also switched your attention to key issues, these are security issues, and this is how i hold the frame when foreign colleagues or journalists ask such questions, i emphasize that, sorry, ours is now key the problem is russia, the conflict exists and the war is real, not imaginary , there between ukraine and russia, or rather russian aggression against ukraine, and this is how he answers these questions,

although we realize that there is no smoke without fire, and that , that this diarrhea of ​​deputies, some of the servants of the people, when they attack the military leadership so aggressively, remains without... the reaction of the leadership of the servant of the people, the office of the president, of course shows that this is not self-activity, and it is unpleasant, i think , it is very important for all parties to put a stop here, to say break, break up in this ring, and let's not do boxing, but work together for victory, because we still have a long sprint distance to this victory, oksana moroz is the author of the book in the nation, how not to become a vegetable, the fight for the truth, and she works with communication issues, how the government communicates with society, how society communicates with the government, and here she says that what is happening is a communication failure of the presidential team and that they

simply did not communicate in time, or is it enough in your opinion , as yours is large enough there was experience in communication between the government and society, would it be enough for zelenskyi to appear on... for example, during the evening tv, his broadcast, a video address, and said: there are no problems, we, we have no problems, we are one team , we work to win. well, actually, this is what the positive bloggers out there are saying right now, whether it's freelance advisers, i've seen some such statements come out, but of course it sounds unconvincing as long as high-ranking servants of the people allow themselves to continue this rhetoric of theirs, i let me remind you... that the same mariana b, she positions herself, here in her posts, her social networks , all these daily statements, not just as a representative of the servant of the people, but specifically as a representative of the national security committee, in order to add to her positions, her words about this flood

of greater weight, greater expertise, and evaluates the activities of the military there from the position of the head of the subcommittee on civil control, it seems to me that it would be correct here, well, some responsibility. for such actions, if ukraine today is splashed in the international media in the context of some kind conflicts, this should be stopped very harshly and such people should be dismissed from the positions they hold, because there is some sensitive and closed information in the military posts, i think this is wrong, and as for communications with society, it seems to me that the question here is even it's not about coming out and saying, we're all fine there, but more seriously and communicating with what's happening on the front, here's a small example, two days ago president zelensky

made an important statement in his daily video, i really like it congratulations, carefully listened to the fact that at the last rate not only the issue of the front was discussed, but also fortifications, he said such a phrase that we paid special attention to fortifications, and believe me, there will be enough concrete and mines in the state, he said and who understood, he understood, the society was fed by the marathon , i think they did not understand anything, but between the lines there sounded a very serious truth about the situation at the front, about the fact that there we are now paying special attention... to the defense, that it will require us to strengthen there defenses, fortifications, this is really very important, the russians go everywhere, mine everything, build these fortifications, and ukraine must do the same in order to get our borders there, and this must be communicated to the society, so that the society is not frightened when suddenly a true article appears that the counteroffensive is not such that tomorrow we will be there in the borders of 1991, and that is why it seems to me that there is a lack of communication. and you see, the government is only ready for such a very complimentary, even

now, applause, some kind of communication, well, this is wrong, we need an adult conversation, ms. iryna, david arahami, the leader of the servant of the people parliamentary faction, said that the heads of parliamentary factions signed a memorandum on holding the next elections in closed session only after the end of martial law, that is, six months after, six months from now rather. after the end of martial law is announced, you also signed this memorandum, can you tell me what kind of document it is? yes, for many years in the ukrainian parliament, with support the european parliament is conducting such an important dialogue, it is said, it is about converging the positions of the majority of the opposition factions, about the reform of the parliament, bringing us closer to the union, well, that is, it is such an important platform,

it takes place in the mode of records, but every time we agree on such final document, and during the last such dialogue with me, which took place two weeks ago , we talked not only about the situation in the parliament, about the fact that there is little democracy there, unfortunately, today there are problems with inter-parliamentary diplomacy, with freedom words, and we discussed the issue of elections, and indeed, we all agree that the world will pay a lot of attention to the post-war elections in ukraine, they must be definitely recognized as legitimate, and therefore they must be held democratically. a priori there cannot be democratic elections during wartime, because we cannot ensure the participation of all participants in the process, including displaced persons, refugees forced out of war, and military personnel, and therefore democratic elections can only be held after the war, and indeed there were. ..

such a discussion took place long enough to prepare even electoral registers, it also takes several months, and these documents were signed, unfortunately, due to objective reasons , the head of the verkhovna rada was not present, he was ill at the time, and the heads of all factions, the leadership of the parliament, as you can see, signed by the fact that the post-war elections should be held after the end of martial law and in six months, but you know, i would like those documents, by the way, we... everyone paid attention to the fact that davyd already said this in an interview with the propagandist mosiychuk, but after the dialogues, all the leaders of the faction unfollowed me and we posted this document, it has been there for a long time in the social network, but i would like the documents signed by the leaders of the parliament and the leaders of the factions to be not pieces of paper, like those stolen from the russian federation and they are worthless, but still have weight and are implemented, but in these documents there are other important norms, for example, about respect for freedom of speech. that parliamentary factions, for example, on communication

platforms, parliamentary factions should be represented transparently and proportionally, that inter-parliamentary diplomacy should take place, but nothing has changed in these directions, but after signing these documents, i have already been blocked from four business trips, including an official one to the osce parliamentary assembly, the only one from the official delegation, we do not issue international business trips, we do not have... on rada channel, we are not in the marathon, so i would really like the same fate of non-fulfilment of this document not to befall the position regarding the elections, by the way, i wanted to ask you if there is such unity regarding the next elections, then perhaps this unity could see each other in cooperation for the future, because it is clear that now is a rather difficult time and it is obvious that what will happen in ukraine, the government will be responsible for it, the government in the broadest sense of the

word. but, of course, the monomajority government is more responsible for this, and whether in the dialogues or not, the representatives of the servant of the people said that they are ready to share responsibility with the parties that are, were in the opposition, now, in principle, power is power and to share there is a government and a mono-majority opposition, probably not quite correct, but at least among all political parties that are represented, for example, in the parliament, and this is the story with the unity government, that it should return to this again, because zelsky would only gain the obvious. if this was a government of national unity, because this is how he will have to be in conflict with the industrious one, if he really is, then he will have to be responsible for absolutely everything, and you know, i have never heard anything from the representatives of the majority about the government of national unity, we

repeatedly emphasized this position to them, that in order for the government to finally become professional, well, all of us we see with the naked eye. the problems of the current government, it is not a subject, half of them no longer have ministers, but some acting, unprofessional, not ready to rebuild the economy after two years of the already great war on military rails, and obviously, the statist political forces consider how you you are right, the government of national unity, this is not a division of portfolios, there is nothing to divide now, and being in power now is really not honey, it is a division of you. responsibility, that is, to take responsibility for very difficult strategic solution, but i see that the current government does not realize the scale of the problems that are facing , and i have never heard anything like that from them, they are satisfied with everything, moreover, the votes in

the parliament, you know, the parliament is closed to journalists , you would be surprised, i think, for a year now there has not been a single law voted , where there would be 22... 26 servants, they are not there, 226, the maximum that the servants give is about 200 votes, well, let it be 205 and the rest are either satellites with opzzh, if we are talking about some nonsense, well, if these are laws aimed at protection of territorial integrity, sovereignty, support of the army, european integration laws, then they gain a constitutional majority when the entire parliament votes, and of course also opposition factions, about one more... communication issue that ruslan should have, should pay attention to stefanchuk, the speaker of the parliament, these are the signatures that are being collected for the submission to the venice commission of a draft law that concerns religious organizations, and more simply, regarding the restriction of the activities of the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, but stefanchuk does not articulate how he

regards this, although he has to submit this document, and these more than 50 people's deputies, including 20 servants, they basically apply. it is to him in order for them to do it, why, in your opinion, does the government not give any unequivocal signal that there should not be a foreign church in ukraine, and this branch of the russian orthodox church should cease to exist, well, you brought in because such letters of the servants of the people and the opzh reach the head of the verkhovna rada against the background, for example, of the searches of the security service of ukraine in the pochaiv lavra, where there were known screamingly again. information about the fact that the moscow representatives are telling the people that there cannot be a single state of ukraine separate from russia, where they simply use hostile language or insult representatives of other faiths and so on, and all of this is absolutely somehow presented, yes, this law is religious,

although we are talking about national security, i am also very surprised by the lack of any communication here, not only with society, but also with the parliament, because mr. stefanchuk did not say, for example, to the leaders of the faction what he thinks about this matter, which there will be his actions, and of course, already at the conciliation council, which will be held at the beginning of next week, we will ask all these questions, and you know, a small example, two days ago in brussels, an important conference was held in the european parliament, where, among other things, they discussed the government's draft law on national minorities, which has now been submitted to the parliament, and here is our colleague, volodymyrovych, there is his opinion that this draft law has certain shortcomings, that it needs to be revised, well , actually, a very moderate opinion, there are no such sharp statements, taking into account the fact that it indeed, there is a draft law that the european commission expects from us in order to receive a positive decision on december 15 regarding the start

of ukraine's negotiations with the eu, our faction and representatives certainly do not do it, that is, it is so completely technical, talking about the pros and cons of the draft law and literally hour appears the reaction of the head of the verkhovna rada and the vice-prime minister on the question of european integration, that is, they react to every sneeze of european solidarity. no one reacts to marianna bezugla for a month, neither david arahamia nor ruslan stefanchuk, nor kornihenko, nor the government, nor the minister of defense, sorry, not the president's office, everyone is silent, well, this is madness, friends, so no one reacts, as you rightly noted, we do not understand the position on this collection of signatures, as i see the development of the situation, of course, this is an attempt to block consideration of the issue in the second reading and of course, if mr. stefanchuk sends this bill to the venice commission, please, and i can name thousands of examples when laws

were sent for examination by the venice commission, but in parallel voted in the hall, the same law on oligarchs, and then, you know, certain conclusions of the venice commission were not even taken into account, i believe that we should now consider a draft law, the so-called church bill, and if there are any recommendations of the venice commission, we can always implement them, but under the guise of this the appeal to block consideration of the law that concerns national security is incorrect, thank you, ms. iryna, it was iryna gerashchenko, people's deputy of ukraine, co-chair of the european solidarity parliamentary faction. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook platforms, please like this. video in order for it to be promoted in youtube trends and subscribe to our pages.

in addition, during the current broadcast, we are conducting a survey, we are asking you today whether the ukrainian government is showing unity today, yes, no, everything is quite simple to vote on youtube, two functions, yes or no, or your comment, please write under this video. if you are sitting now in front of the tv screen, pick up the phone and dial the numbers. if... you think that the ukrainian authorities are showing unity, then vote on the number 0800, 211-381, no 0800-21-382. all calls are free for you, at the end of the program we will sum up the voting results, and we will do it both in the first part of the program and in the second part of the program, where we will have deputies, maria ionova, andriy osadchuk and serhiy taran, we will speak : about political stability and what

is happening in ukraine and in what way to present those trends that the western press for some reason considers to be political discord, it was not for nothing that i mentioned in a dialogue with iryna gerashchenko that today two journalists from tokyo and brussels called me and asked what was happening in ukraine, i gave them comments, explained that the office the president of ukraine denies that there is a conflict between volodymyr zelskyi and valery zaluzhny, that there are no signs of a crisis or conflict between the supreme commander-in-chief and the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, at least that's what the official representative says of the office of the president of ukraine mykhailo podalyak, and of course, when officials or official spokespeople have just such information, we also should not talk about what really exists, but

you see, they flew to japan and brussels , and they flew to belgium these messages about the fact that there is some kind of conflict, and now the whole world is starting to discuss what this means for us, it means that the world is starting to doubt that the authorities in ukraine are working exclusively for victory, and that the main task - it is to defeat the russian federation, because they appeared signs of political struggle, or political competition, zaikonmist writes that this competition is connected with the fact that the latest measurements of zelenskyi's rating indicate that zelskyi's rating is falling, while zaluzhnyi's , on the contrary, is increasing, although we understand that zaluzhnyi is not political the player, now, he is the person who speaks on behalf of. ukrainian army from the armed forces of ukraine. and of course he talks about what is happening, he does not speak, rather, he acts in

the situation that is currently developing on the russian-ukrainian front. no statements that he wants to enter politics, there are no statements by zaluzhnyi that he wants to become the president of ukraine. there are no statements that he is ready to enter into any kind of competition with zelenskyi. instead, we see some kind of nervous reaction from the representatives. of the office of the president of ukraine for publication in zekonomist, namely, the commander -in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, we see the unworthy comments of the people's deputy of ukraine and deputy head of the parliamentary committee on national security and defense maryana bezuglloya, who demands the resignation zaluzhnyi, the office of the president of ukraine is silent so far, and since mariana bezugla is a representative of monobish. it is perceived as the position of the monomajority as it is perceived as the position of president zelsky, and as long as this

people's deputy of ukraine is in this faction, it will be perceived. as the position of the president's office, that's why the world is actually talking about it, well, what else is the world talking about, let's talk today with the american diplomat, former special representative of the united states of america in ukraine, kurt walker. mr. walker, congratulations you, thank you for being with us today. we have certain problems with the connection with kurt walker, yes. i hope that we will reconnect with the former special representative of the united states of america to ukraine, we know that he was the ambassador of the united states of america, but that's actually what i wanted to talk to kurt walker about, because he said that ukraine can and should become a member of nato even before the end of the war, and that in no way does this prevent

the north atlantic alliance from making a decision. on ukraine's accession to nato. sir walker, i welcome you, thank you for being with us today. we are in touch with mr. walker. well, while we're on the phone with mr. volker, i'll say that the other day , the former special representative of the united states of america to ukraine said that delaying ukraine's accession to nato only encourages the putin regime to continue the war indefinitely. and, he says that while putin sees that the north atlantic alliance does not want to open the door to the ukrainian state, until nato dares

on the adoption of such a decision, until then putin will attack... ukraine, and this threatens not only ukraine, but also the whole world. of course, of course, we are talking about the fact that ukraine should receive a clear signal, as kurt volker believes, about access to the north atlantic alliance. well, and of course, against this background, we see how the meeting of the council of nato and ukraine takes place in brussels, dmytro is there. kuleba, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine receives good feedback about ukraine's move to nato, and representatives of the north atlantic alliance say that ukraine has done very a lot in order to become a member of the north atlantic alliance, and the reforms carried out in ukraine during the war, they are also welcome, but there is a procedure that

must be carried out by the north of ukraine in order to join the north atlantic alliance and this plan reforms, after all, ukraine must deploy and start implementing them, because next year the nato washington summit is to be held, and during this summit there will be, well, as we expect, there will be some decision on the adoption of a decision on ukraine's accession to nato, and in us there is already on the line...' mr. volker, mr. volker, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. mr. volker, you stated that delaying ukraine's admission to nato only encourages the putin regime to continue the war indefinitely. but, i

understand that you are in favor of ukraine becoming a member of the alliance. even before the end of the war. the majority of ukrainians support you and we believe that we are also already worthy of being a member of the north atlantic alliance. what, in your opinion, prevents nato from making such a decision and a fateful decision not only for ukraine, but for the whole world. i think that nato leaders, in this decision, because they are worried about themselves, and about escalation, but unfortunately,