[000:00:00;00] the discussion, that is, mariana and david, they are pushing these topics into the public sphere, such a discussion should be exclusively closed, this discussion can be extremely sharp, it can be very hot, but excuse me, it should be a discussion on the subject , well, at the very least, at very closed meetings of the committee, and judging by the behavior of our people's deputies, apparently with their taking official, legally binding, written commitments not to disclose what was said at these hearings, in no other way, that , what happened is already in itself very much, i understand that this is an artifact of the basically good phenomenon that we remain a democratic society even during a great war, well, well, well, well, democracy also involves a certain, well, own responsibility for what you say, what you do, where things, allow a little bit of such a tiny pin even, even to you with all my sincere

respect. it seems to me that even the very wording of the survey that you are currently conducting, whether you trust or not trust the head of the army, well, to be honest, even this is not about the war a little bit, but this is this too such a small artifact from a peaceful life, nevertheless, i understand that you would not have started it if some people's deputies had not fired like this first, but let's maybe not lead to this either, but i somehow have a bad idea of ​​a public opinion poll about trust beetle or eisenhowerov. well, we conduct such a survey solely because someone doubts that the head is performing correctly or all his powers, well, i mean marian bezugl, solely because of this. thank you, mr. yevgeny, for the conversation, it was yevhen dyky, a veteran russian-ukrainian war. friends, we are conducting a survey, now you see on your screens

, it sounds like this, do you trust the head of the armed forces of ukraine zaluzhny , if you are sitting in front of the tv, you can pick up the phone and call the number 080021381, you trust it, no 0800 2011-382 and all these calls are free for you, at the end of the program we will summarize this vote, those who are watching us live now on youtube, it's pretty simple, no, or your comment on as to whether they will trust you... you can write under this video. next, we have the major general of the security service of ukraine in the reserve, former deputy head of the security service of ukraine, viktor yagun. mr. general, i welcome you, thank you for joining our broadcast. yes, good health. with an interval of one week, president zelensky and secretary of the national security service of ukraine danilov announced that ukraine is at risk of internal destabilization. zelensky, referring to

intelligence data. spoke about the fact that the russians are developing a destabilizing campaign under with the conditional name maidan-3, danilo about the activation of russian spies in ukraine , who and how in your opinion is trying to destabilize the internal situation in ukraine, and which groups should be paid attention to by the special services, and since they are already starting to talk about it, which are the most threatening. groups of people, either by profession or by activity, who can influence internal stability in ukraine , well, first of all, these are the people who actively behave in the information field, that is, well, the so-called leaders of public opinion, and

those who receive, well, have received or have significant trust, i would now pay attention actively to those so-called bloggers or such active media persons who have significant subscriptions in youtube, somewhere in telegrams, in telegrams, and what they will talk, and their rhetoric will repeat the narrative of russia, in particular, in the direction of the fact that we have problems in three directions, i, i will always say now, was, my friend, published a very interesting such post, i do not want to name it , i don't want to repeat it words, but he divided them into three points, which are now actively , actively spreading, the first is the army, of course, this is what concerns the possible confrontation between the civilian and military

authorities in ukraine, this is faith. what concerns the church of the moscow patriarchate and , in particular, the activity of some deputies in the verkhovna rada to collect signatures on the possible referral of the draft law to the venetian commission, thus stirring up a part of society regarding the rejection of this law on the regulation of religious activities in the second reading organizations that are controlled from moscow, and the last one is language, this is what concerns the possibility of introducing certain correlations into the bill, laws that relate to language, some copper things, regarding... educational laws, this is all that is supposedly under

under the auspices of our european integration, i.e. these three processes are actively being pedaled from russia, certain contradictions are being pointed out, certain contradictions are being pointed out, statements, in particular, of the members of the verkhovna rada, and so on, are actively being spread, i.e. i mean that russia is actively trying enter into our information space and influence it, mr. general, are there enough opportunities and forces in the sbu to prejudice the work of such bloggers, such politicians, that is , in what way is this work conducted and how should it be properly structured so that, copper people do not influenced, or let's say, limit their influence so that they do not sway the information space. those topics that are irritating now, well, it is difficult to say, i think that this is not only the matter of the special services, it is the matter of every citizen of ukraine, to understand that in

such a period, against confrontation, one against the second, even if there are some political aspects, it is definitely not on time, but i think that the special services are actively working with the sources of the exit of this information, they are trying to block the channels to the kyds, they are working, here is the latest information on the fact that are actively neutralizing the so-called pro-moscow bloggers who are engaged in the dissemination of this information in ukraine, that is, the special services are not sitting idly by, but once again i emphasize that a significant part of stopping this confrontation lies personally with each of us, well, of course, in power, which should demonstrate unity, i don't know how, but this is one of those elements that will hinder the kremlin's plans, danilov, the secretary of the national security service of ukraine in an interview with the time, said that

russian agents intend to drive a wedge between the civilian and military leadership of ukraine, as they say, the main topic that is currently unfolding before our eyes is to kill the rift between the president and the commander -in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, but what we see now is that this topic is being actively pushed precisely in relation to the industrious, there representatives servants people, can they be perceived now as provocateurs in this situation, or people , or who do not understand what they are doing, or, they do it consciously, the same arachamia or bezugula, i think it belongs more... to such a stage as useful idiots, you know, this is not my expression, it was once used in the secret documents of the kgb, which believed that there is a category of people who do not

really understand their actions, but want to always be listened to, and they that's what they called and not, without hiding it in secret documents, that's why this term is so academic, roughly speaking, uh, that's why...' you have to look, not always, i 'm very afraid of everything, so that we don't get out of hand, and this is a little bit of such a danger in the hunt for something, as you know, as when it was after the second world war in the united states, when a congressional commission accused almost half of hollywood there of working for the communists, and it cost the united states significant image losses. i think that in ukraine there is also a bit of an excess now, when they start any,

no, misunderstanding, any, any kind of protest there are slurs or simply an attempt by a person to express his opinion to attract to state treason, this is also a mistake , there are many moments when you can simply talk to a person, explain the situation , you know, that is enough. to stop some of the contradictions that are pouring out, well or not... large-scale wars in social networks, well, and this ultimately affects the adoption of certain decisions, because one way or another, well, the current government, it looks at the reaction of social networks, looks on sociological ones polls, but the security service of ukraine still goes about its business, in response to danilov's accusations that there are russian agents or spies there, including in the security service of ukraine, the security service of ukraine denies this and says that over the course of

22-23 years it was exposed more than 2,000 traitors and more than 300 agents of foreign special services have been identified, in particular, among the exposed persons are former current people's deputies viktor medvedchuk, andriy derkach, oleksandr ponomav, oleksandr dubinsky, ex-head of the sbu main directorate in crimea, oleg kulinich and others. danilov said that he was misunderstood, let's face it, he had nothing against the sbu, because the sbu is sufficiently qualified now to work and works with agents of the russian federation, considering the list of agents that the security service of ukraine mentioned and did not mention, because here we are talking about about more than 300 agents of foreign special services who were kidnapped in 22-23. obviously, we do not know all cases, and many cases are closed. what percentage of spies or agents of influence do you think may still be in the. in the ukrainian government and

in what way they can be overcome, exposed, bring to justice, because it is clear that the russian federation did everything to ensure that there were as many of these agents of influence as possible, and obviously not all of them have been cleared yet, look, we are, there are several categories that can be graded very much, you know, on on any gradation, but i... i would name the three biggest, the first is the agency , which is disposable, that is, it is for some specific tasks and we see them, massively exposed by the security service, these are some, well, so-called ee so- called adjusters, there, some scouts, who can move from place to place there, these are people who, well, no, they are not very expensive

. you can find them very quickly, how to find them is another question, then there is a category of people who did not hide the fact that they are pro-russian, it is the same, the same deputies of the verkhovna rada from opzh, the ones you called medvedchuk and rabinovych and derkachi, who are you, or other people who actively promoted the so-called russian peace in our, in our ukraine, in our consciousness, saying that everything is normal, but there is the category of active or passive agents who are, no, no, you are not exposed and may be at the highest levels of power quite and quite hidden, that is

, they are persons who may have undergone special training, perhaps they do not actively manifest themselves, they can, i don’t know, there, roughly speaking, wear embroidered clothes in a good ukrainian language, tell how they love ukraine, actually work for the enemy, this is the most dangerous, the agents and, unfortunately, there may not be so many of them to to say that there are many, but they can be scattered to a great extent many branches of government, and we will have to work for more than a year to discover them, unfortunately, this is the kind of system that always works, always, because i always give the example of kim philby, who worked all his life in vinconca, the united kingdom , and at the same time he worked for moscow, so even such a specific service as mi-6, not this mi, is not protected from traitors, and we

just have to understand that we have to work without giving up, because life goes on, ukraine will always be, and traitors must be found, whether we want it or not, it's the same. mr. general, you have already mentioned the people's deputies of ukraine, who are now trying through the venice commission to block the adoption of a law on religious organizations , and to put it simply, that before the prohibition of the moscow patriarchate, and there are 44 deputies, my colleagues from the movement have honestly published 44 surnames , those people who on... appeal to the venice commission and there are quite a lot of surnames, yuriy boyko, serhiy lyovachkin, maksym buzhanskyi, artem dmytruk, yevgeny shevchenko, hryhoriy mazurashu, pavlo halimon, well, many, many, 44 people, that's enough, 1/10 of the supreme council

was against this law, publicly, and they are now trying to appeal, or let's say, they will explain that they want...' through the venice commission to get good for this law, but considering the fact that now, how , how people's deputies of ukraine oppose this law in ukraine, is this not an excuse for the same security service of ukraine, to look more closely at these people, and what are the motives of each person who it does, and how it will affect that internal stability in ukraine, because failure to adopt this law can lead to destabilization as well as adoption. well, here is such a specific situation, in order to send this document to the venice commission

, it is not necessary to collect signatures at all, this is more of a pr action, everything depends on the leadership of the verkhovna rada, whether they send it or not, they can send it ... before the second reading can be sent after the adoption of the law, it already depends on the leadership, there is a nuance, the bill was introduced personally by the president, he urgent, there are significant additions that the security service wants to make there, therefore, if someone wants to oppose this law, he, in fact, opposes first of all the president, then served... the security, well, and part, part, of the leadership of ukraine, which supported him, including the cabinet of ministers, through the relevant, relevant committee , i think that society will remember these names, although the vast majority of them are already so well-known, i think that the security service

has been watching these people for a long time, the problem in what, the problem is that we need evidence, we need evidence not of their activities, anti-ukrainian. and the fact that they do not perform these tasks at their own discretion, yes, actually on the instructions from moscow, unfortunately, the documentation of such things is quite difficult, the initiative of these people is clear, and, if they start to act, these actions will lead to stabilization of the situation in the state, there are other articles. which can be attributed to them, but, unfortunately, not treason, although there are definitely elements of a treasonous position and treasonous actions in them it appears that the settlement of this issue, mr. general, i mean, the situation around the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, what it threatens

for ukraine, destabilization, they continue their activities that destabilize the situation in ukraine, they continue... they continue to try to get in in these or other communities, to influence these communities , in particular the military, there is, there is relevant data that they, nemikrut, i don't know, dress in some kind of volunteer uniforms, try to show that they are all very good, and they climb the demarcation line in order to have communication, i don't know why they can contact people on the front, they can get some additional information about this or that activity, there are a lot of moments, and you have to understand that there are regions that, uh, actually remained in such a vacuum, and there are no such russian movements regarding

changing the situation in favor of the orthodox church of ukraine, primarily transcarpathia and bukovyna. thank you, mr. general, for the conversation, it was general viktor yagun. friends, we are working live on the tv channel espresso as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, feel free to like this video, don't be stingy, you 'll like this video and it will trend on youtube, and don't forget that we're hosting survey, today we are asking you about the following: do you trust the head of the armed forces of ukraine valery zaluzhny, if you vote by phone, then yes, 0800 2011-381, no, 0800 211-382. these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote, and besides,

we also conduct voting on youtube, there are two options, yes, no, or your option, please write in the comments under this video. next we will be in touch with yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics, mr. yevhen, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. i congratulate you, mr. serhiy, i congratulate you. happy 10th anniversary to espresso, glad to be with you these 10 years, because i think ukraine needs professional independent news. thank you, mr. yevgeny, thank you for being with us for all these 10 years, let's start with of our survey, how much do we ask about trust in the head of the armed forces of ukraine, and this is connected with several statements of the last few days by david arahami and mariyana bezugla, representatives of the servants of the people, do you trust the head of the armed forces of ukraine and if someone doubts and does not trust,

why doesn't he trust the industrious, i trust the industrious, immediately anticipating the question, i 'm not personally familiar with him, it's just that today is not my first broadcast where we talk about bezugling, and accordingly, i immediately put dots over and, that i don't... know zulazhny personally, but both the actions of this person, whose star rose after february 24, 2022, and the manner of public behavior inspire confidence in me. i do not think that zaluzhny is not trusted as the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, i think that they are afraid to see him as a competitor in the presidential elections. but i am deeply convinced that zaluzhny, who is currently waging the most important war of his

life, will not, i will use this verb, exchange for a presidential campaign during the war. i will explain why. he a professional military man, in my civilian understanding, military men are people who are taught by vidda. orders and obey orders. zaluzhny, as i have already said, met the war in the position of commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. it was a huge burden of responsibility, wasn't it? but i never heard a word in the more than 640 days of the large-scale invasion that zaluzhny wanted to resign, or that he wanted to become a minister. defense, remember these iterations about whether there could be something like this, or there couldn't be something

like this, but i see that nothing like no, and therefore, i am glad that ukraine has a whole cohort of generals who were formed already in independent ukraine, formed after 2004, russia greatly underestimated this factor and greatly underestimated it, and we now see that the situation is such that there is a military elite in ukraine, and why does it slander anyone except the kremlin, i honestly do not understand, mr. yevgeny, but from what bezugla says, from what arakhamia says, it follows that by 2024, they

did not see any plan of the luzhugny or the plan of the zsu, in your opinion, what, what are these objections go into the public domain, and those objections that probably concern such painstaking backroom work, because they are broad enough to be brought up for consideration. the plans of the zsu for the 24th year, even in the conditions of the entire parliamentary hall, it is probably completely unreasonable, and to demand from him that he explain to someone there to bezugli, chirahami, or dubinsky, god forbid, or buzhansky, the plans of the zsu, god forbid knew who was malvina, who was pinocchio while still in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, how dangerous it is during the war, let's go by the facts, let's try, at one time, maryana bezugla was very

indignant at the presence of serhii lyovachkin. committee on national security, although lyovochkin did not have access to secret documents, that is, certain materials could not reach him, accordingly the question arises, that is, a person, in this case, and mr. rahamiy and ms. bezugla, who call this, well, accuse the industrious because he did not present this plan to the parliament, they pretend that they do not understand that there is an admission to issues of secrecy, certain secrecy, there are certain restrictions and other things, it's one or two times , will you remember, and i know that you actively monitor the daily activities of ukrainian politicians, similar concerns

of maryana bezugla. in the previous years, in the 20th, in the 21st, when the state defense order was not fulfilled or not fulfilled in ukraine, but the minister of defense was different then, andrii taran, who is now the ambassador of slovenia, you will remember her angry speeches on this topic, calls for his resignation, of course she can talk about the fact that, well, this is a prerogative president, i... remind that the appointment and dismissal of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces is also the prerogative of the president, here i think that no one has any opinions, i will remind that ms. maryana even then worked in the committee on national security, defense and

intelligence, that's why it's called double standards, i don't like it when in wartime they try to use double... standards, it creates a situation where we willy-nilly think why it is like this and not otherwise, and who benefits from it, mar she doesn't give me the impression of being faceless independent people, independent politicians, the people behind it, they are pushing their own agenda, and that's bad. in my opinion, i would not like what is happening today in this situation in the conditions of war with russia. i get the impression that the people who promote maryana bezuglu in this way, they forgot about bucha, they forgot about mariupol, they forgot about izyum and

about many other war crimes of the russians, and those who pro... don't push david arahamia, because arahamia also spoke a lot, which in interview of nataliya mosiychuk, we will listen to a few of his statements, and then we will comment on the negotiations with the russian federation at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, since arkhamia was a member of this negotiating group, which conducted negotiations with the moscow delegation until april 22nd. in words, they were ready for much that, in words, we understood that everyone, each side has its own game, well, that is, the whole game directly depended on successes or defeats at the front, well, in words, they said that everything, let's go home to where, where were, you are there 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, accept, and that's it, and

then in the details that we stand until you accept everything. well, and about johnson, who came to kyiv and ruined almost everything, almost everything, they really, really hoped until almost the last that they would pressure us to sign such an agreement so that we would accept neutrality, this was the biggest thing for it's up to them that he, they are ready to end the war if we take, like finland once not there... we will give an undertaking that we will not join nato, just one point, well in fact, the key point was this, everything else is there, cosmetic political seasonings, such as denazification, the russian-speaking population and blah blah, why ukraine did not agree to this