[000:00:00;00] press, please take part in our voting, and we have two options, if you think that it is necessary to hold elections for the president of ukraine on the 24th, please vote by phone 0800, 211-381, no, 0800 211- 382, you can now see on the screen that 93% of those who took part in our survey on espresso telelek do not want the presidential elections of ukraine to take place in 2024 , well, because of the war, of course, so keep voting, at the end of the program we will the results of this vote, further on communications roman bezsmertny, politician, diplomat, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the republic of belarus in 2010-11. mr. roman, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on

our air. good mr. serhiu. sir, mr. roman, quite such a broad discussion has been taking place during the last week in the international media about what is happening now on the russian-ukrainian front, about the state of affairs in ukraine, about what is happening in the higher echelons of power. first, an article in time, where the author was the american journalist simon schuster, and this journalistic text was, further, valery zaluzhny's column in zaeconomist, where he clearly emphasized where ukraine is now and what ukraine's needs are and what ukraine expects from the west, and the washington post also wrote, wrote a text in which it is said that ukraine is in a worse position today , than last november, the troops are exhausted and exhausted, the weapons stockpile is depleting, and western society is more

polarized about providing further support, ukraine's supporters now need to rethink their theory of victory, well, there are very, very many different points, but they are in unison because the same general zal zaluzhnyi wrote them, are they understandable, mr. roman, in your opinion, here are the explanations, which we are witnesses and readers of which we are, are these explanations understandable of the west, do they have no illusions about... about what is happening on the russian-ukrainian front, well, first of all, it is very important that when we go we talk about these informational statements, and that they are presented in the form in which they were, this is firstly important, and secondly, so that we do not get attached to certain sources and do not see

others, because there are other sources. who write about completely different matters, and yes, if mr. sergey , we have known each other for a long time, allow me to clarify something, and yes, the first is, ah, an article by simon shuster, which, from my point of view , to the question about we say, in principle, it is not, there is no relation, because this is such a public, artistic-public thing, and i am literally analyzing today... the situation, why it was necessary to write it in such a way, i realized that it is all- all the promotion and preparation of the reader for the release of the book in december, under the conditional name of zelenskyi, i have not spoken to anyone but you about this topic, because you are the author of a similar book, which, well, it is rare today in the world to find a language into which

your book about zelenskyi is not translated, i am just saying that we understand , that simon shuster solved his questions, besides, and there are a number of things, ah, which, well, let's say this , made up, fantasized, ah, well, although, if desired, ah, ukrainian journalists are much more accurate wrote about the same things, and i would recommend paying attention to them, because everything is laid out there with documents, with evidence, with surnames, and so on, so if we talk about this topic, i would leave this part of the conversation there, on the side, and let it lie to itself, because from my point of view, its the purpose was completely different, now, as regards the economist and the whole epic, the first thing i want to draw the attention of our viewers and

listeners to is the so-called according to the economist of the eu, the industrious general zaluzhnyi, it was presented in the content of two short articles, which in styles of the american, british, european press, as if based on an interview is being written about some material, i have had to give interviews to western journalists many times in my life, you can talk for an hour and a half and then there will be no interview, just two or three references will be in the article, and those are highlighted in quotation marks. that this is like a fragment of a conversation with you, so what you see now has spread around the world , the whole conversation is at a dead end, they are actually taken from these two previous articles, they

are even now on the economist, and there all the way down, down under these articles are links to the so-called new the essay of the general, general zaluzhny, although if you read ... the scientific article of general zaluzhny, because it is a completely different genre, and i draw the attention of everyone who will read this material about it, compare it with something else, and even from above, if you open this full essay, there is even a classifier, udc, there is 355, if i am not mistaken, this is the number of the so-called scientific classifier. work, which indicates a priori what it is about, in the topic of this, this material, that is why it is very important to understand when we talk about this topic, but if we take today, especially the ukrainian media,

to analyze, then their messages are not based on the report of the scientific general zaluzhnyi, actually on these two eyes, well , remember, in soviet times they called peredovitsy. yes, these are the pioneers who set the appropriate tone that part of the western world wants to see , while, let's say, others write about something completely, completely different, and one more thing that must be understood when we come to prepare this topic is an article by general zaluzhnaya and general zabrodsky in september 2022. year with the same plot, relatively speaking, the current situation, what we planned, what we achieved, what are the advantages, what are the disadvantages, how should we deal with these disadvantages and what is

the strategic plan in the future, i am not talking about the fact that the very title of the scientific report of general zaluzhnyi, it clearly indicates that it's not about any impasse, it's about... how to work further to defeat the enemy, you know, i read, i think that this material reminds me, i remembered, i remembered the book, academician gorbulin, how you remember how to defeat russia in the future war, and here we are actually talking about a positional war, as to win in such a war, and in the current ukraine, these things are essential. which must be understood, now, actually, and why is this tonality picked up on, which today dominates the mass media, especially the ukrainian ones, because if you take the entire spectrum

of the western press, and i will not list them, there is everything, there is everything from genre, ala simon schuster to academic publications, to such academic publications that try to combine one and the other style so that it is readable, which now concerns the answer to the question, why actually, why exactly, zaluzhnyi's article is devoted to why such a trend was chosen, the fact is that the current one is political. and the global political conjuncture, it falls somewhere on the election campaign, close to the election campaign to what is happening today in the united states of america, and this, in fact, leaves

an imprint on itself, on any processes, plus the elections in the congress of the speaker, the congress of the united states america's house of commons, the speaker, which is understandable . moreover, all this is given a completely different character, because if we talk about it, the accusations are certain in the article and simon shuster, then the ambassador of the united states of america clearly and absolutely indicated that there were no abuses, there were and are not any funds coming from the united states of america, and what funds, 2/3 of these funds, in principle, never go to any the ukrainian budget, not to the ukrainian consumer, they are distributed there directly in the united states of america, between producers, among competitors, by the way, lobbyists, who from... on the one hand there are republicans, on the other hand democrats, and it is

their business to understand these things now, as for the fragments that fell, the sensible, scientific things that fell, this is on this ground, and corruption, anti-corruption scandals, international politesse and so on, they have absolutely nothing to do with it, because technical-tactical, scientific, strategic things which are mentioned in general zaluzhnyi's article, have absolutely nothing to do with all of this, but the problem is that they precisely set the tools for the preparation of this article, which is, i say again, written in a different genre for a different purpose, and on the surface, the thesis about some kind of discussion or some kind of confrontation between zalognyi and zelskyi is completely incomprehensible, because it is nowhere here and

cannot be anywhere, i am not saying there, tonality, or any countertheses from both sides, they cannot be in principle, because the nature of the report is one thing and the public material is completely different. mr. roman, we are joined by the spokeswoman of the ministry of internal affairs, maryana reva , the connection was lost, the editor tells me, today near kyiv, in the village of chayki in the kyiv region , zaluzhny's assistant was killed, it happened around 5:15 p.m. zaluzhnyi has already responded on his page in the telegram channel, he writes that today , under tragic circumstances, on his birthday , my assistant and close friend, major gennadiy chastyakov, died in the family circle. in one of the gifts. an unknown explosive device went off. gennady is survived by

his wife and four children. my deepest condolences to the family, the commander-in-chief wrote. from the beginning of the large-scale invasion , gennady was a reliable shoulder for me, completely devoting his life to the armed forces of ukraine and the fight against russia aggression the reasons and circumstances will be established during the pre-trial investigation. maryana reva is in touch with us. madam, mrs. marjana, you are kind. i congratulate you, please tell me what happened in the village of seagulls, here it is reported in the village of seagulls, alone, alone in the suburbs of kyiv region, kyiv, what happened to this gift, did the gift explode, at first there was information that grenades some were in the hands of major chastyakovov, according to the information that came from the police, from... the operative group that arrived at the place

of the call, it was, there was an explosion due to careless handling of ammunition, which really, further on, the situation will already be determined, the investigators will determine, for this purpose, a pre-trial investigation should be started, based on the fact of the death of a person, as well as article 263 of the criminal code of ukraine, this is illegal handling of ammunition, all the circumstances, they will have been studied carefully and objectively, now the information that comes in, you understand , it comes in military mode, i apologize, in real time, so it is necessary to give the investigators a little opportunity to work, collect the evidence base, conduct all the examinations, conduct a survey as part of the pre-trial investigation, and then we will have

an objective picture. mrs. marryano, in the initial information that appeared in the media, it was also mentioned about the 13-year-old son of the deceased major, do you know what is happening to the boy now? according to our data, the boy was seriously injured, he is under the supervision of doctors. thank you, ms. marino, this was mariana reva, spokeswoman for the ministry of internal affairs. we follow what is happening with the story of the death of a close friend, major general zaluzhnyi gennadiya chastyakova, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, has already reacted to what happened, according to zaluzhno, on his birthday in the family circle, the major was opening one of the gifts, and an unknown explosive device went off, so far the law enforcement officers do not

give an exact answer, whether it is in the gift box was this explosive device, was it some other explosive device, the investigation is ongoing, and we continue to our conversation with roman the immortal, and mr. roman, well, you see, tragic news related to the general zaluzhnym, during the war, nothing can be ruled out, of course, but you said that these are all conjectures, or some, some stories about the fact that there are some misunderstandings between zaluzhnym and zelsky, that this is at the level of fiction, that there is no such thing, as in this case, well, to react to what appears in the publications in the western press, they are specially heating up this topic, or in principle, the employees of the office of the president of ukraine are provoking it, who are starting to comment on

the meritorious, although in principles, well, probably the deputy head of the president's office during war should definitely not comment on the actions or statements of the main: the commander of the armed forces of ukraine? well, mr. serhiy, there is one fundamental thing about which i keep saying, unfortunately, i don't know for what reasons, but in ukraine, well, i don't know, there are five or six trained military personnel who can, for example, such as, representatives of the press offices of the relevant there , the pentagon or the israeli army, any materials that come out there from the supreme commander, from the commander-in-chief, from the commanders of the military branches there, and so on, and in fact, due to the non-professional approach to these things, it creates a huge number of problems

, remember three or four years ago, well , it was very difficult to determine what we were talking about, well, now at the level of the situation there are people who are enough they expertly comment on the events at the front, there with shelling, everything, similar things, they are open to interpretation, well , at the level of arrest from a small letter, and actually this gives rise to an infinite number of various kinds of rumors, it is clear that everything is instantly caught by mass media, especially western ones , under this they are looking for, under it's looking for different kinds of fragments, well, you and i both know what syllogism is, so whenever there is a quote there, it's also here, and if

you read all these things, they're broken phrases, broken phrases out of context, the actual scientific report, and general zaluzhnyi, well, it is clear that in such a case, when a person objectively and holistically examines any process, it is always possible to sneer at any fragments, now you have asked an absolutely correct question, and why is this so playing in the west? well, because the west is democratic society and where there is power, there is opposition, and everyone uses the moment to get a medal in the form of votes for... to serve, but please look at how the situation in the congress is developing now, and the speaker has already said more than once, we are ready to vote on the aid package for ukraine, but there is such a song going around that it seems that in principle this

package will never be voted, and actually what ukraine needs, what the ukrainian side is saying, that with these funds control is needed, moreover once again, i emphasize this, it is necessary to understand that by suppressing most of this money, it never entered and does not enter ukraine, these are funds that are distributed among the manufacturers of weapons, because most of the weapons come from warehouses, and for the funds that produced, which are allocated, new weapons are made to replace them, it was like that and it remains like that and it will be like that, because the reserves are huge, they are only spent on them... funds to bring them into order so that they can be used , and that, it is not done in ukraine, by the way, it is not only advantage, this is also a big problem. from the point of view of service and maintenance of military equipment, well, we are not talking about it now, in fact, this is the reason that allows,

let's say, to tear out these fragments, but if you look at today, from the washington post to fox news, because i take two, let's say things, two positions, one if the democrats, the other the republicans, then there are all kinds of different things, from such... phantasmagoric things like ramaswamitse, who says that yes, sign, take away the territories there, divide everything, and so on further, to those who really understands that russia's aggression against ukraine is something that affects the security of both the united states of america and europe, and here it is necessary to consolidate efforts, to help ukraine, well, you have heard my position more than once. this is good, but this is not enough in order to win a victory over such evil

as muscovite and führer putin, the creation of a joint military association and a joint headquarters for managing these processes is also necessary here, and it is necessary to talk not only about the two , three or four fronts and so on, because in fact the fuhrer regime, today, it would create many points of tension, just like the current war between iran and israel, because it is already evident there and it is in the evidence , how much russia tried to make hezbollah and hamas attack israel , and a few statements, mr. roman, by zelenskyi of the nbc news tv channel, because obviously both the publication in time and the publication in the law required some additional interpretation by president

zelskyi, what zelenskyi said about the change of strategy in ukraine, let's listen. to fight all our lives, because the price is high, like i said, because the war takes the best of us, the best heroes, the best men, women, children, that's it, but we are not ready to give our freedom to this terrorist putin, that's it, that's why we are fighting, well, it was very finely written there, maybe not everyone understood what zelensky said, he said that he has a lot of strength, but even if we feel strong and have a lot of energy, it does not mean that we want

to manifest all our lives, because the price is high, because war takes the best of us, the best heroes, the best men, women and children, but we are not ready to give our freedom to this fucking terrorist putin, that 's why we fight, well, about the actual change of strategy, he said that we , we do not have a stalemate situation, and that we are moving forward, moving forward and striking unexpected blows at the russian federation, quite undiplomatically, zelskyi said about putin, there was obscene language about the terrorist putin, is this clear to the western audience and western politicians, western voters, if, well, zelensky is trying to convey in this way. information about what is happening in ukraine, and reinforcing it with certain words, and you know, if you take

politicians, analysts, advisers, ministers, generals there, they should have, each of them has their own rhetoric, so let me, i will use the rhetoric that belongs to a person who does not work in the authorities today, who knows what was done there, and who has experience and who analyzes the situation, the world, europe and the united states of america, today, in relation to ukrainians, they act unscrupulously and it is unfair, this is how aid is provided to ukraine, but starting from that budapest memorandum, cursed by all, it is not ukraine that should provide aid to the west and the united states. of america, and ukraine did not sign that it will defend

the west and the united states of america, there are signatures of the political leadership. of the united states, great britain, france, china, that they will provide assistance in the event of a threat and waging war against territorial integrity and sovereignty. i will add other international documents to this, which oblige the civilized world to defend ukraine, to stand by its side. it was ukraine with its military contingent that was in iraq, in africa, in lebanon, in angola, in other places, it was ukraine that helped protect peace and tranquility in many peacekeeping continents. and when i hear today that there are political forces that want to stop aid, to limit it, i want

to tell them that it was not ukraine that put... the signature for aid, it was you that put the signature on aid, and at least if you have there is a lack of morals and understanding of what ukraine is defending today democracy, a civilized world, then please be law-abiding and fulfill the obligations that you have all assumed. why am i talking like this now, because these are the things that are now after this discussion. have arisen, they have made the situation so tense now that, as you can see, the tone of the president has changed, because even president zelenskyi understands this very well, and this was said in the report and in president biden’s address to the nation, so that putin does not stop ,

if he defeats ukraine. and that's why the task of the whole world today is to unite and together - this evil must be overcome, because it will go further, it will destroy the world, the world order is already broken, and this is said in the words of the same president biden during the address to the nation, from this it must be understood that what is happening now in ukraine, what is happening in israel. this is evidence that evil unites, if this evil is not opposed by the unity of the democratic civilized camp, there will be trouble, and these conversations, what tactics, how much they gave, how much they didn't give, they, they just from my point of view, they harm the sit down,

analyze all these things as general zaluzhnyi does and says: there are such problems, because i will remind you that under zaborodskyi and general zaluzhnyi it was said that by the end of 2023, ukraine would reach the state border in crimea, but for this it is necessary was and it was listed there that it was necessary, one of the points, the first point there were the atakams when they came to ukraine? mr. roman, we have to roll up, sorry, the regulations force me. already stop the program and go off the air. thank you for joining, this is roman bezsmertny, a politician, diplomat and former ambassador of ukraine to the republic of belarus. during the program, we conducted a poll, asking you whether it is necessary to hold elections for the president of ukraine on the 24th. so, 96% said no,

four - yes. friends, we are taking a short break, and literally in 15 minutes. back on air, don't switch, watch the bbc news, then we'll be back in the studio again. bbc news ukraine broadcasts. olga palomaryuk works in the studio, and in today's program we will talk about what ukrainian society has been actively discussing in recent days, whether in fact, there was a split in the leadership of ukraine. the western media are already openly talking about the alleged conflict between president zelsky and commander-in-chief zaluzhny, what do experts say and are there reasons for concern? and to find out, has there really been a split in the leadership of ukraine and is