tf is wide spread races, depression, today, the screen. we need to talk about here, the stories, shadows of german colonialism. the expose and exhausted things are getting worse on ukraine's eastern front as russian troops advanced and airstrikes. humble cities, especially ukraine's. the 2nd biggest target air campaigns are knocking out ukrainian energy facilities and ukraine's top and military commander. warning the situation in the east has deteriorated significantly. 2 hours north of a cube and it can, you have the death toll rises again from russian missiles. ukraine is calling for more help from the west for aid from the united states and federal protection. as russia intensifies its air strikes campaign, we are asking how to strengthen ukraine's air defenses. the

hello and welcome to this week's edition of to the point time claire richardson in berlin and barrels. welcome our panel of guests. this week. we have a usually out of the demco, a visiting researcher at the, for university of berlin and associate professor at heart. he's national university, alexander sort of fellow at a center for international security at the heritage school in berlin, and military experts. both congress said joining us today from vienna a very warm welcome at to you all. thank you for taking the time. you will. let's begin with you. your home city is hard. see if i understand you even still have family who are living there. can you tell us a little bit what the situation is like at the moment? yeah, i have not done this time of that. i still work in the, at the university and we are teaching online and, uh,

and my students are also then hard to you. the situation is really critical, but i wouldn't say that the russian military of forces move closer to the seats. it in a significant way by precious to attack can ukrainian cities and these not on the hartfield bought those which have any here recently yesterday with the lease house and drones . and that is the system as of problem for the seats in the attic point that now all would be a significant tower. my power plants are destroyed. and so the analytics, the, in that number just have to says it's probably couldn't be a repeat this centralized heaton for the winter season for it's common. now most of people have no electricity at all for 20 or 12 hours of defense on the districts. and normally the electricity is available for consumers at night know a lot of people, they try not to sleep at all just to,

to make the, you know, they routine. so this is having a huge impact on daily life. and hark, you've already with these power outages. yeah. but for a while i mean that i have a positive message, not the sounds too much pessimistic a due to russia, attacked to raise your heart of human 2022 instead of 23. that are a lot of businesses so which is c will function in a lot of critical infrastructure to look at hospitals like are the services we are working in kind of the extreme o, but normal way to those cities to leave in. now i want to come to both kind of a to ask a little bit more about the strategic elements. your heart has been under missile and artillery fire for weeks. what you think does make it such an important target for russia. the 1st of all, the russian small to destroy the energy supply in the book right in the lab,

just. busy destroying the civilian needs to create a get interesting structure such but the long to have of cross and introduction of the electricity needed for running red road. which is very important for the supplier. after seeing the long transport lines from best bottles of. ready into the front lines in the east and in the south. and for that electricity is, of course, one of those are 1st things that is needed. and 2nd of all, the elements i mentioned lensky as a proposed order. it was approved increase or credit union and industries ago and they are relying on and that's your supply. and if that isn't the interrupt, it's this plan cannot be phone trip. and alex, what kind of impact do you think these attacks have on the civilian population and infrastructure in our case to? well, i think the situation is quite dire and i would also build on. but i was going to

said that the problem is of costs, but now that do you craniums don't have enough ammunition for their defense systems? the problem of cost is that they have to choose, what do they want to defend? and if the russians are hitting the energy infrastructure, the problem is it's sort of a vicious suck cycle. so, so the energy infrastructure is being destroyed. they can't produce the arms that they need. and with that of caustic cons, pushed back the russians. and if the rest are pushed back, the attacks will only increase. um, so this is really a problem here. so it pushes them into a place where they're having to make very difficult decisions about what you prioritize. let's come back to this conversation in just a moment. i do want to take a closer look at har keith itself, because we've been speaking about it so much with a pre war population of about 1500000 people. it is the 2nd biggest city in ukraine

after care of, and it lies just 40 kilometers south of the russian border, which makes it particularly vulnerable. it is, in fact, close enough. the russian missiles could reach it in less than a minute. caterina's allegiance was resting when an explosion shook her entire apartment block. a russian guided bomb exploded in the back yard. i covered my head with my hands, waited for the moment of exclusion. i felt the shockwave move down my body and everything was coming down to the one man was killed in the attack, and the residents are in shock. car chief has been under constant fire since mid march, ukraine's 2nd largest city is located only a few kilometers from the russian border, leaving residents with virtually no warning of attacks. system football unless we have a catastrophic shortage of air defense system site and not only in the car cave

region, but throughout the whole country, which especially in the car keep regional or on the heart of the senior. also, we will, the russian army has been targeting car keeps vital infrastructure in particular like power plants, without energy, water, and food polluting hopes to demoralize the people of ukraine and leave the country dry. how much longer can ukraine hold on to its cities in the east? i'll put that question straight to vall, sky and how long it can that ukraine hold onto its cities in the east, under circumstances like the ones that we've just seen. in our case, a one shuttle up, the actual distinguish between the colon company and also russians against the energy infrastructure, transport infrastructure, and the situation of the trunk. lots that the front lines. what can be 1st law was it would create an immediate terry to say something, or if you of the russians in terms of person that about those in terms of

immunization, awareness of what makes a big difference. it's the craniums can maybe still short to twos organized so that i speak of a attend rate was irrational as can have a 7 level $10000.00 per day. this can be phase now at the front lines. and that is the reason why they were cutting is have to do both. they have to look for a better supply. and this itself goes to the task of the rest. and the 2nd, they have to look at a more personnel at the front lines that are running short pause to allow that means that have to shop with different plans. and they cannot type it low at a higher cost for every village. so probably they have to give up here and they ask some villages to, to elect to flat down the, the trump lands and to safe house on their end to one shop, locked the leaf again in the rattle really, except there's a possibility to read it. and find territory to control. all right,

and i think this is not realistic. so you can locking in in multiple areas. and i do want to return to the issue of personnel shortly. but 1st you, we're looking at that report we just saw. it must be difficult to watch having students and family there as we've seen russia carrying out these huge attacks on russian energy facilities. can you tell us more about how people are experiencing these in ukraine and how dangerous of development it is? yeah, really, it was a hot breaking video for me because it was my neighborhood, some build them to which i destroyed that they addressed to residential ones, less than one kilometer for all my my own apartment there. but i wanted to probably a little bit that we asked what 12 concept because of course, so there is no sometimes when to applied for every village, but our kids law is 2nd largest c, 2 of ukraine. and now, even despite the what tool it is more than 1000000 and 3 hundreds of people,

the more oh wow. more than 5 hundreds of thousands of people who are in to, on the display as people are leaving there. and they displaced within the region about an hour ago. harkey may are eager to have said that they are not going to eval quaid, anyone from harv to forcibly. and also i bought 2 tickets for my mom who is visiting relatives in k u. and they are trained so ronnie and, and they're a sales seats available to buy. uh so yeah. as the see to twice, to leave normally. but the to be realistic. i have a bad for cost if pressure will continue to arise. people with this mess of at that's the most let alone she had to do it in the nights and early mornings and people civilians are not ready for this. and actually, i will agree to all other guest about the gap part in which ukraine is now,

because we definitely need to uh, what do you use? some men fall wow. on the front line. and from another point, the few people are running out of formula nation, and that is the way to bed just have to ukraine and society because even those who were thinking to, let's say, join you put in an army, a, b sup when they feel themselves less but at that, that, than the before, when it was reported that the and you, let's say do leave the referral, my west kind of allies to arrive to ukraine and the they, there's some successful operation on the front and, and they're also going into a situation where we're alex, we heard of the commander in chief, these remarkable comments, but he's saying that the eastern front has significantly deteriorated the situation there. what does that look like in practical terms? well, i think this duration is quite dire, but um, to maybe not depressed of us too much. um, let me start with uh, with uh, with

a positive note to you. and that is that it's still a very costly well for russia, russia, it's losing, in all of the specialists and the federal for of div car and so on. they're losing thousands of soldiers. they're losing um, with vehicles. um, so this is still the case. the problem all of costs is as boston has pointed out before in terms of attend or re, uh, ukraine's out gunned one to 5. it might be $1.00 to $10.00 in, in the coming weeks personnel. it's some areas on the front line, it's $1.00 to $7.00, right? so this is really a dire situation, but, and now ending with a positive note as well. we can change this, we have seen time. and again, if we ukraine, if we give it the weapons, it needs it can sustain to fight against russia. and so, so to put it simply because if the crane is losing, we're not doing enough. let's pick up on the personnel issue absence. it seems to

come up repeatedly of both kind of, we know that ukraine has now lowered the minimum age for military conscription from $27.00 to $25.00. in order to replenish troops. how helpful do you think these new recruits will be to ukraine's cos? uh yeah, the kids little uh, came live to i have to say of the chevy discussion on the length of discussion in the bottom of that it has the effect that was wished for discretion about it for the following reasons. it, i see read it and it's called the address 400 up 250-0000 people in d h. but these levels of costs will be that would be sufficient compounds actually it will credit union losses and causal no shortage and relief soldiers at the front line. so therefore, exhaustive of cost after 2 years ago. however, i think these figures of file from reality and it takes

a lot of time to implement the law because people have, i mean, recruit that recording system has to be organized. so people have to be solved and then they have to be try it. they should not be sent to the contents to valley. so their families may still wait until they ex austin. so address will be able to be rotated. and there's a lot of reasons which, like you can discuss what was why i feel that these figures unrealistic maybe because. busy of people try to evade and all that the new law is little increasing the punishment. so those who are going to evaluate a service that's the maybe a lot of people are often preaching, particularly those are residing in, in video contracts. so is that, does that cover you up? there is still the outcome ritual then after some months enables it will grow, union forces to fill the gaps, to rotate, and to release soldiers that are exhausted and is your hand tech. and this has been

a controversial law usually. can you tell us a little bit what you're hearing from ukraine about, about how it has divided society? yeah, it's really um, kind of problem i to question because a s to me is a political scientist. these issues, we aren't communicate to enough from political edits and ukraine. for example, mr. was a landscape president of ukraine. he didn't even mention this new legislation. dude . and he's a, let's say, every day we deal of appeal to, to nation. so he wants to be distance from these processes because he is a politician. and from the other point, a few that are a lack of clarity who will be conscripted, whether people will be train a in the good to manage. and then let's say here for what are the don't the front

line that a lot of city land says mission, male city labs or phrase to be just put on the front line of to, let's say they just updated their data. and i would say that the, uh, i can see some positive uh, norms in these the legislation because it gets smoke clarity of the box from another point of view. it's not a real good side. so we can just call that the assets of these selig installation. will be kind of what reasonable uh, closer to autumn. oh, probably winter because in the monster the lo will be enforced. then people a has a have 2 months to reduce their or to update the data. then it is said to 30 um commission who are deciding the capacity or 5 percent of the education level. the other reasons this house,

the condition of the particular person. and then we also need to moms you to this new legislation to, to the, for these people to train me. so it is not the immediate response of course. and then i load those stipulation uh, within your planning on society. and i would say there are a lot of russian information upside corporation with them ukraine both regarding the mobilization, lo and both of the guys in this edition and harkins yesterday they tried to widespread the information that there will be a recreation from the seats. if you must visit civilian personal leave the safety and the other target they tried to reach is the male population, especially young fonts. so they use take tool they use instead we down for that which was a small to them to rebuilding them before. yeah, it must that it's worth discussing though, isn't it alex, i mean, for the ukrainian soldiers who have been on the front line since the start of the

war. many of them are exhausted. they want to have an end date in mind of when they can go home and get on with their lives and make plans. when we look at the new recruits that might be called up under this new conscription law. how useful do you think they will be if they perhaps did not join as easy as quickly as at the start of the war? well, as i've pointed out before, um, there is of cause a problem, a personal problem, right? um so, so do you have um, as i said of some sections on the front line one to 7. so every recruit as needed and as um, as pointed out before, these soldiers on the front line of costs are getting exhausted so. so this will help. yes, but i know it's, it's sometimes more interesting if these discussions are more controversial, but i have to agree here with, with what you just said before am. and that is, that of cause moral is,

is tanking if you are losing battle off the battle. and also because you don't get the arms that you need right on. on the other side of the russian side process, recruiting a fraud to 1000 soldiers a month and they are just pulling them out of the prison system. basic the, it's good for us in society of costs, but put in doesn't care about this. um, so i think it's a, it's a complicated situation, but again, also depending on the items that we deliver to ukraine. so let's speak a little bit more about the defense that ukraine needs. of course, a key of was paying attention when we saw iran launched a retaliatory attack on israel. and a ukraine saw a international effort coming together very quickly to down hundreds of drones and missiles and prevent more serious damage from taking place. and also saw that even without this kind of, for, and health as well as iron dome, air defense system and action. so if you're seeing that response, a president's a landscape was very quick to point out that ukraine should also be afforded,

that kind of protection, its ways to be bought. so the whole world sees what real defenses it should say, and that it is possible ways to be footboards and the whole world has seen that is real is not alone in the defense. so, and there's also supported by its allies. so use equal to bring that and when you crane says that it's l as and it should not turn a blind item rushing. nichols and drones get it means that they must be accurate and act forcefully. at the end of the scene, julia does ukraine see it as hypocritical that the west was so quick to come to as well as defense? while it ukraine remains vulnerable to russian attacks? well, the where the rapids reaction among ukrainian website opinion makers, uh, what kinds of disciplines manned by the so double standard, it says that they called it then the social networks. because we were said that the not the can nothing to her up in any conflict. the outside nature,

but from the point of view of these relas is also not the nato member. and of course, uh that is kind of disappointment. but uh uh, i would say ukrainian societies know so easy to manipulate with this information. and they were a lot of voices saying let's compare our animals and the those who are attacking you kidding as politically. are they understanding that we apply it and with the kind of one of the largest, so they're buying the world. and of course, uh, of the, please stablish it added to use here in your mind you, for example, or in the west, the, to watch russia also playing a better role here. and of course, the, to the, to it factor is that we have in elections and the united states, a domestic policy is not plan in prayer for, you create and, but still it's

a huge task for our cultural expert at the end of shell diploma. so not to, let's say she gave off and the just to try to can we saw a product. notice that the, the word is still going on and that is not to, we're not losing that much as sometimes the rest of the right to portrays it to the west and the some commitments us to enforce and then needed to you're quoting and citizens and to ukraine engine to be fulfilled both kind of what kind of air defense systems would be best suited to the ukrainian case here and, and what is the best case scenario in which we could see those actually delivered to? yeah, so both cases, i mean your probably in a multiple competitor is causing the extra people to speak about iron door, then it will tell you about the needs many are in adults because the best

a separation of protection for a relatively small area. here we have, we have seen them attack from the wrong 2 of us is wrote this sweet home. that means like draws a mystic muscle screws my sons, et cetera, over a long range. that means stopping in the gods, but i love the american troops and the whole thing came after agreeable ending by the iranian side. so this is the big, the biggest difference of across it on is lot on not yet as much many believe and to get out. and there is a rest of, you will need to create a stripes from poland to the us. why a drama neutrons, etc, that natural states will not be come, members or part parties. those are contract in ok. however, what can be it up? what brought in as a much bigger territory needs many more al defense systems. and i might

say here that they're just delivered a lot of different systems, maybe not enough to cover their blo territory, but much more than many other states in particular from phones they get taught the system to patrick drilling. you just law, they live up to a certain model or is going to deliver. so, patented system, that's what we're right in the sky. next is to you as a and etc, etc. is all that. and i do have often, sometimes at the cost of the on a substance that means of their holdings, me, i'm foster. so one has to be careful on the well, the extra being shredded now is the get. the u. s. has left since uh, november last year because i was a locate but i have to say and then the majority of the public trans bucks, very popular level already. so that the big a package of $61000000000.00 that should be sent to me. it will create an inch and a quick look the deliver. this is a get bigger proteins will not be able to to,

to compensate so quickly because it takes a long time to change industries on them and the industries initial production of the tetra, from piece topical team to add, well production let's get some final thoughts from alex, i in just a few words picking up on what both kind of has said, what is the outlook for ukraine and support from its western allies like the us? well, i'm very helpful, although it's not upset that the 8 packets will be decided on and will pass on saturday. then you also will be much brighter. and apart from that, i hope that um, you know, the, the glad trust that has been promised to ukraine will just be delivered. and if that's the case, we look into a better future. and if you're watching this, you may already even know whether that has happened or not, depending on what day you are watching. that's all we have time for it. thank you so much to julia alex and both going for their time. and thank you for watching. if you liked the show,

let us know in the comments we'd love to hear from you the the,

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the you're watching dw used live from lynn vu waste. the tours full un membership for the palestinians. the united states as an independent palestinian state should be established through negotiations between israel and the palestinian authority. not 3 un action. also coming up german police arrest 2 suspected russian spies accused of planning to sabotage, german military support for you. crime, berlin. summit of the russian ambassador and germany advice, johns level of