♪ host: good morning. president biden and former president trump agreed to at least two debates but with

different rules and conditions from previous election cycles. more ethics questions for the supreme court following a new york times report of the upside down american flag outside the home of justice samuel alito junior in 2021. we want to know your top news story of the week. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents can reach us at (202) 748-8002. if you would like to text us, the number is (202) 748-8003. include your name and where you are writing in from. on social media, facebook.com/cspan. on x at @cspanwj. let's start with the news about the debates. here's the story in politico. having spent months avoiding engagement on an and where,

donald trump and joe biden seemed to agree on a time and place in a matter of minutes on wednesday, setting of high-stakes showdowns in late june and mid september. the former president's campaign expected an invitation to the debate. the current president -- expects to debate the current president. biden said he had received and accepted an invitation from cnn, then agreed to participate in abc's. here is president biden's initial challenge the donald trump via x. [video] >> donald trump lost two debates to meet in 2020. now he's acting like he was to debate me again. make my day, pal. let's pick the dates, donald. host: here is former president trump talking about the upcoming debates at a political event last night. [video] >> i just want to debate this

guy. i'm going to demand a drug test either way -- test, by the way. i really am. i don't want him coming in like the state of the union. he was high as a kite. is that joe up there? by the end of the evening he's like -- he was exhausted, right? we will demand a drug test. they are going to be fair. you have to deal with it, right? host: former president trump will speak at the 2020 for an ra leadership forum in dallas today -- nra leadership forum in dallas today. you can watch that on c-span now or online at c-span.org. those debates have different rules than years past. that includes qualification candidate be constitutye

eligible to serve as president, with the federal electionkanas e commission, they have the name appear on enough state ballots to reach the threshold0 electoral ballot -- electoral votes neededo win the presidency. the at the agreed to the rules and formats, and that they receive at least 15% in four separate national polls of registered or likely voters that meet cnn and abc standards. that does exclude presidential candidate rfk junior, who said on x, president trump and president biden are colluding to lock america in a head-to-head matchup that 70% say they do not want. they are trying to exclude me from their debate -- excuse me.

trying to exclude me from their debate because they are afraid i would win. keeping viable candidates off the debate stage undermines democracy. 43% of americans identify as independents. if americans are ever going to escape the hammerlock of the two party system now is the time to do it. these are the two most unpopular candidates in living memory. by excluding me from the stage president biden and trump seek to avoid discussion of their eight years of mutual failures, including deficits, wars, lockdowns, chronic disease, and inflation. that is just one of the several stories we are following today. you can call in at (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8002 for independents.

a recap of some top news stories we have been watching, concluding biden and trump agreeing to that debate. justice alito and the stop the steal ag ror the common association for the upside down american flag. the house gop has voted to reverse the israel weapons block president biden enacd. biden blocked the release of special counl pes this week. there has been quite a bit of soaledia traffic about harrison butker, the nfllar and his commencement speech at a catholic university and the reactions to that online. let's get to your calls. duke in maine on the line for independents. caller: good morning c-span. my top news item was about trump and the sideshow soap opera

thing he's doing in court. after i saw that thing about alito, his wife flying the american flag upside down, it's a total disgrace. i have no respect for that supreme court. they are a disgrace to themselves, a disgrace to this country. i'm so fed up with the whole thing. if donald trump stops short, they would go right out of sight. player of his rear end and i don't think it's right. host: more about that story from the new york times. justice alito's house, a stop the steal symbol on display. an upside down flag adopted by trump supporters contesting the biden victory flew over the justice's front lawn as the supreme court was considering an election case. after the 2020 presidential election, some trump supporters

falsely claimed president biden had stolen the office. many displayed a startling symbol outside their homes, on cars and on the light posts. an upside down american flag. one of the homes flying in flag during that time was the residence of samuel alito in alexandria, virginia, according to photographs and interviews with neighbors. it was a loft on january 17, 2021. president trump supporters brandishing the same symbol had rioted at the capitol a little over a week before. alarmed neighbors snapped photographs, some of which were obtained by the new york times. word of the flag filtered back to the court. people who work there said in interviews. "i had no involvement whatsoever in the flying of the flag," justice alito said to the times.

"it was briefly placed by mrs. alito in response to a neighbor's use of it of an personally insulting language on yard signs." let's get back to your calls. your top news story of the week. matt in new york on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. a quick response to the first caller. it's a disgrace for the flag to be flown upside down by a supreme court justice's wife, but it is free speech when college campuses are burning and stomping on the american flag? that's an amazing statement. my story of the week is joe biden trying to shore up his black support by going to the college but also showing up at the white house celebrating brown versus the board of education. i want to remind everybody that

back in the day joe biden was against busing. he actually said he would not want his kids to end up going to a school that looked like a jungle. on top of that, i remember him saying or implying barack obama could speak intelligently. the location there was that for a black man. this guy is a total hypocrite. i can't believe people actually fall for this crap. host: in regards to biden attending to shore up his support with black voters, he is speaking today at morehouse -- i'm sorry, tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. eastern he will deliver the commencement address at morehouse college in atlanta. that has attracted some controversy. here is the story we saw from the associated press. biden's upcoming speech roils

morehouse college. when he gives the commencement address at morehouse college, president biden will have his most direct engagement with college students since the start of the israel-hamas war at a center of black politics and culture. morehouse is in the largest city in the swing state of georgia, which biden flipped from then president trump four years ago. biden's speech comes as the democrat tries to make inroads with the key and symbolic constituency young black men and repair the diverse coalition that elected him to the white house. as a reminder, tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. eastern when president biden delivers that commencement address at morehouse college in atlanta, georgia, you can watch that on c-span now, or online at c-span.org. let's go to ralph in new york on the line for democrats. caller: good morning.

i am a uaw worker. my top news story is the debates. i stand with president biden. i don't need to listen to the debates. all the debates are about is who gets the best knockout punch or has the best one-liner. i'm an issue voter, as most union voters are. president biden is supportive of raising the federal minimum wage, the right of workers to organize unions, equal pay for equal work, and the economy from the bottom up in the middle out. the debates are about nothing and i thank you for your time. host: thanks for your call. john in dearborn, michigan. caller: good morning. joe biden has been the senator and president for mbna and the delaware corporations. like the previous caller, he's

always been kind of a questionable on topics of race and things like that. that is not the point. i don't know how the top story couldn't be -- i go on social media. i see disemboweled children and children with their skulls blown out in gaza. i can't help but think this is what all of our congressmen want. i don't know they see it. you don't see it on mainstream media. it is disgusting. i see videos on social media of ukraine, of their conscripting young men. they are beating them into a van trying to conscripting. between ukraine and gaza the united states is lost. host: thank you for your call. a bit more news this week on israel. the u.s. house voted to force weapons shipments to israel, rebuking biden this week. here's a story about that in reuters. "the republican led u.s. house of representatives passed a bill

on thursday that would force president joe biden to send weapons to israel, seeking to rebuke the democrat for delaying bomb shipments as he urges israel to do more to protect civilians during its war with hamas. the israel security assistance support act was approved 224-187 , largely along party lines. 16 democrats joined most republicans in voting yes. three republicans joined most democrats in opposing the measure. foreign affairs committee chair michael mccaul was on the house floor on thursday speaking about why that legislation to push military aid to israel." [video] >> i'm deeply disappointed for some in this country and for the administration that the moral clarity has faded. that their ironclad commitment apparently is not in fact ironclad. in an about-face the biden

administration is now withholding critical arms necessary for israel to win the war. this administration wants to dictate how israel executes the war that they were thrust into. they did not ask for this work. they did not start this war. hamas started this work. -- war. president biden said, "if they go into rafah, i'm not supplying the weapons, period." that would be similar for us to say during world war ii, "you can invade all the way up to berlin but you cannot go into berlin to finish the job." imagine if we had done that with our allies back then. israel is in a fight for its very existence. this administration's public break with israel has only made negotiations and victory more

difficult. host: gene in chesapeake, virginia. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. goodness. i hear all the comments. i'm going to stick to what i wanted to talk about. the flag upside down. i'm a veteran. i served in the u.s. army. i'm proud of my service to my country. i'm proud of my country. i could not help but be disheartened by seeing the protests at columbia university when they took down the u.s. flag and put of the palestinian flag. let's go back to january 6, when we first started seeing this disregard for our flag. i don't vote party. i vote issues.

i am for democracy over dictatorship. if we also roll it back, we want to see why the military is suffering with military recruitment. look at what our justice did. let's go back to january 6. now let's go forward to the flag being taken down and the palestinian flag raised over a building. people need to do their history on the u.s. flag. now what justice with the flag upside down. my heart broke for a third time. we have got to unite these states of america. the one caller talked about what joe did. who feels the same with a felt 40 years ago? if that was the case, we would look at 45, trump. trump never served the military. he has no ancestry of service in

the united states of america. nothing against the young man, he's 18, but his people -- is he registered for selective service? we must come back to one united states of america. those young people, we can't fight the war. yes, we feel for palestine and israel. there are other ways you can help out. we can't tear down our democracy and our united states of america. we have got to stand together. we have got individuals that are supposed to be representing their constituents going up to new york. do the business of the united states. we are also distracted here now. please people. we have got to be united. host: speaking of members of congress going up to new york, there's a story about that in axios from this week. house republicans have been working to carry favor with

former president trump with trump trial visit. nearly a dozen house republicans , the largest attendance yet by gop lawmakers. the trial is rapidly becoming the essential trump loyalty test for republican members of congress, to the point where it appears to have appeared with official business. several republicans on the house oversight committee, which rescheduled upland market from -- markup. next up, henrietta in fort pierce, florida. the line for republicans. caller: hi. good morning. two things. you were not real clear with regard to the flag. i find it very interesting that when the the supreme court was cluttered with democrat appointees, they were the greatest thing in the entire

world. now they are conservative. they are such terrible problems. january 6 was not the first time that flag was flown upside down. the symbolism of that is distress. the supreme court -- toledo's -- alito's wife was in distress. her neighbor was going up to her face, like the congresswoman from california, waters, all good democrats should do. secondly, donald trump -- host: i want to come back in a moment. i will read more the new york times article referencing what you were talking about before i let you continue. "interviews show that justice's wife had been in a dispute with another family on the block over

an trump sign on their lawn. given the timing and starkness of the symbol, neighbors interpreted the inverted flag is a clinical statement by the couple -- political statement by the couple. that particular sign that the neighbor had put up included an expletive related to former president trump." go ahead. caller: who cares what the neighbors thought? you are making this out like it is a new york times let's beat up conservatives because they are not our cup of tea. secondly, trump was the one who called for the debates, not biden. not biden. trump did. he said anytime, anyplace, anywhere. biden thought he would be smart by saying yes. they thought donald would say we need this, we need that, we need

this. no, he called biden's bluff. drug testing biden would be a good thing. it truly would. so we can see what the heck he is on. we know this meant ain't able to stand. host: thanks for your call. 's go to a post we saw on social media for james hopkins on facebook. " i would save mr.butker's commencement speech. misogyny and homophobia was on full display and an overview of how otherouthere think. the w hlaced his talk with disinformation and misinformation were out of place on the occasion. the ones who agree with him probably wear red hats and will affect the election in november." here's an article from cnn about that particular speech. the nfl is distancing itself

from controversial comments from kansas city chiefs kicker harrison butker during a recent commencement address. in addition to calling pride month eight deadly sin, he set off waves of criticism when he suggested women find more fulfillment they're getting married and having children than by pursuing careers directly after quoting a song by taylor swift. here is a portion of that speech at benedictine college's commitment ceremonies. [video] >> congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. you should be proud of all you have achieved to this point in your young lives. i want to speak to you briefly because it is you, the women, who had the most diabolical lies told you. how many are sitting here now about to cross the stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to getting your career?

some of you make a want to lead successful careers in the world. i would venture to guess the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. i can tell you my beautiful wife isabel would be the first to say her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and mother. i'm on the stage because i have a wife who leans into her vocation. i am beyond blessed with the many talents god has given me. it cannot be overstated that all my success is made possible because a girl i met back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all. homemaker. host: another comment on that speech from social media, from a text message we received from joseph in fayetteville, rt your line.

"harrison butker was voicing inions at a commencement. he w more concerned about his personal feelings and encoagg the graduates. i'm not sure what is me disturbing, feelings -- feelings over logic or fear of her courage." -- over courage." "for these words, democrats have set petitions to get him fired. one sportswriter in san francisco is calling the nfl hypocrites for not treating biker -- butker like calling cap her neck was treated." "cap are nick -- kappernick pushed an agenda for months and no one cared. it was only when he decided to dishonor the flag by sitting during the national anthem that people became upset. if harrison butker's catholic views expressed that a catholic college offend you, don't listen

to them and don't go to a catholic school. it is a free country." this was in an opinion piece in the washington examiner by collin carroll. let's go to more calls, including kenny in dunlap, tennessee. good morning. caller: yes. the supreme court gives absolute immunity the bud needs to invite trump to the office, the oval office. if biden shoots him and kamala harris pardons him, and of story. end of problem. thank you very much. host: elizabeth in randall's town, marilyn. -- maryland. caller: i want to talk about gaza. the biden admistration has been reprehensible towards palestine and gaza.

from the beginning, gaza is under siege by israel. israel is killing palestinians right and left every day. the biden administration did not call for a cease-fire until seven months into the war. palestine was voted by the human -- un security council to make palestine estate. the u.s. was only one of two countries to veto that. palestine needs to be made a state. hamas has put forward a peace agreement towards israel releasing the hostages and stopping all the war, stopping all the fighting. israel has turned it down. it's up to israel to stop the fighting and they are not going to with the biden administration sending more arms to israel every day. the only good thing biden has done is to set up a pier on the gaza coast to send supplies and

humanitarian aid to the gaza people. the administration could have stopped israel way back in october if they called for a cease-fire. biden has been reprehensible and that's all they want to say. host: christian in phoenix, arizona, on the line for republicans. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i want to say the 2020 election was stolen. i don't care how much the media denies it. i don't care how much they talk about court cases that were not heard, which courts don't decide elections. the state legislatures decide our elections. the 2020 election was stolen. the top news stories talked about how the georgia state legislature, despite hearing all the things said about the way fulton county failed the

election, has done nothing to secure or protect the elections in georgia. the republican state legislature in arizona has done nothing to secure or protect the 2024 election despite the things we have heard, the signature verification not followed or the chain of custody not followed or the problems on election day. another top story is how we have all these members of the u.s. congress that want to be seen, particularly republicans that want to be seen on the television screen down at the courthouse. there is no talk from anybody about prosecutor misconduct. no talk about humphrey that needs to be repealed or overturned. no talk about biden's 1994 clinton crime feel that needs to be repealed or the provision that needs to be revealed -- repealed.

no talk about the major or minor crime bills joe biden took credit for or was responsible for. we have all these republicans that want to go on television and portray and act as if they are the ones that are defending president trump. a lot of these republicans you see on the television screen, all over the media, they don't want trump in office. if they did they would be working tirelessly to ensure the 2024 election is protected. we are going to see a repeat of that across several states. that's one of the reasons why you see trump campaigning in other states such as new jersey. he's been talking about virginia and minnesota. he was just in minnesota less than 24 hours or so ago. you have several states that are not following their election

law. this will rear its ugly head. host: let's go to sandy and columbus, ohio, on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. i am really tired of hearing about the election that was stolen from trump. i am tired of seeing all the republicans on my tax time up in court, sitting up there. they think this man is some kind of god. what i will say, my top story is that something has got to give. it's almost going back to the 1800s and early 1900s with whatever certain group wants to do is ok. what anybody else thinks is not. as far as the supreme court, the lady in virginia stole my thunder. i agree with her 100%.

i have a grandnephew and grandniece in the military right now. all the things they are talking about and wanting women to stay at home and have babies and all of that when they walk off and leave the women back in those days they had to go on welfare to try to take care of the kids or kill themselves working. this is getting a little bit redundant. everybody else that goes the trial for any kind of crime in america, they go and they have a jury of their peers to decide whether they are guilty or not. it is no different than what i think it should be such a big difference about this man. everybody has opinions. just like my father used the say, everybody has opinions like they have behind holes.

i will not be vulgar. it is getting on my nerves propping this man up. i felt like when hillary and trump ran in 2016 the election was stolen from her. we did not go to the streets and tear up the capitol and make a martyr out of this man. we went and let him do what he does best in the country. as far as palestine, i feel sorry for palestine. israel. if you put bibi and trump and a bottle, i't know who will come out first. he's trying to keep from be uted and trump is trying to get empower -- into power so he don't go to jail and bibi is tryi tstay so he doesn't. host: randall and michigan on the line for independents. caller: good and thank you

c-span. this deals with the f-16 jets about to be received in ukraine. the story that got m attention was and i news. striking russia with u.s. arms is a decision for ukraine says blinken. this comes on the heels -- you have to take it back to february. nato made a statement that ukraine will have the right to strike with f-16s on legitimate targets in russia. all that was followed up on the 17th of this month where the pentagon clarified the u.s. weapons policy. we believe the equipment capabilities we provide to ukraine, that their countries provide to ukraine should be used to return ukrainian

sovereignty. within that mix the f-16s, that is a batch coming from non-usa -- we did not provide any of the f-16s. we have been ambivalent about that. we are allowing other country -- other nato countries to do that. when they arrived there is an appearance ukraine will have the right to use those f-16s to go into russia. russia has responded by seeing that as an imminent threat to the sovereignty of russia. if you go back to the bush doctrine under those conditions it is arguable that russia would have the right to a preemptive strike. i think the pentagon needs further clarifications.

host: i will stop you there so i can give the rest of the folks listening more information. the most recent story regarding the f-16s and ukraine comes from reuters on may 10. ukraine to get its first f-16 jet in june to july, says a key military source. it sounded like he may have seen something a bit more recent. this is what i could have found. kyiv expects to receive its first f-16 fighter jets from western allies in june to july, the high-ranking ukrainian military source at on friday. ukraine has sought u.s.-made f-16 fighter just to help it counter russia air superiority for more than two years of work. the source did not say which country would supply the jets. denmark, the netherlands, norway and belgium have committed to sending f-16s to ukraine. let's move on to james in sebring, florida, on the line for democrats. caller: good morning.

thank you for the privilege of being able to talk to everyone. this country was founded by we the people. we the people is not one race, one religion, one party. it's all races and all religions and all parties. it's a crying shame that i am a democrat and i'm proud of it. it is the party for all. the republicans say -- host: how does this tie into your top new story? caller: drop said he wants biden to take a drug test. why don't you take a drug test? host: former president trump said he would be willing to take a drug test ahead of the debate. caller: i would like to see that

come true. the other thing is that this country needs serious help. biden is doing the best he can. unemployment is at 3.8%. republicans say we are doing horribly because of inflation. inflation is worldwide. it had nothing to do with the headlines this week but i want to speak my piece. we all need to get along. host: thanks for your call. speaking of inflation, the economy, we will be speaking with the trump campaign senior economic advisor stephen moore to talk about various economic issues, including inflation. next up we have glenn in corpus christi, texas, on the line for independents. caller: good morning c-span. i have two items i want to talk

about. host: ok. caller: the first item is, we cannot have politicians in war. joe biden needs to keep his nose out of israel's conflict over the. -- over there. they have to take care of their own business and defeating hamas. -- in defeating hamas. lincoln riley's parents filed a class-action lawsuit against alvin bragg in new york. alvin bragg let this illegal criminal go out of new york on two separate felony charges. he let this criminal go kill lincoln riley, an innocent girl with his bare hands. alvin bragg is an accessory to murder right there.

there is no way you can deny that. throw in joe biden on the accessory to murder, because he let the illegals come into texas. free will. host: al in plymouth, massachusetts. what is your top news story? caller: the big story is the biden-trump debate. you think about that was an impossible feat from the former president. don't forget the desantis mood by the democrats. nikki haley was going to block trump. a lot of this goes back because the whole atmosphere everyone is talking about goes back to 2016 when trump beat hillary clinton. the establishment left-wing media did not like it. trump's path to the presidency

is the big story. you talk about election fraud. we never heard about the bridgeport, connecticut democratic operative stuffing the ballot box. whatever happened to her? does she still have her job? there was a former democratic congressman in philadelphia convicted, served time in federal jail for stuffing the ballot box in democratic philadelphia. why are they doing that in blue districts? this is the culture of the democrats. they feel they own d.c. donald trump is the reformer. what do you think they are going to do to the reformer? they don't want the reformer there. wake up. i want to say that bernie sanders would have won the democratic primary. the party bosses blocked him with hillary. donald trump and the republicans prove it is the party and the

people can have a donald emerged out of nowhere. that is the democracy. host: carol in st. louis on the lines for democrats. what is your top new story? caller: my top new story -- i only followed one and it was on a local channel here. it shows that settlers of israel setting fire to one of the trucks coming in with food. then it showed them sending firebombs into a garage in palestine. it showed the israeli army people just any back doing nothing. how come i only saw that once? is it true? host: i am trying to find something about this. i am not seeing anything very quickly.

did you have another top new story and we can see we can find something on that? caller: the other top new story is what they did in texas, giving that guy a pardon that killed that man. that's it. host: we will see if we can find more about that story you referenced. let's hear from reno in phoenix, arizona. caller: good morning. a couple of stories. i had not heard them yet. i watched c-span yesterday. the first was billions of dollars going to ukraine going into shell companies. russia just walked in through the border and billions of dollars are supposed to be fortifying. it's tax money going to corrupt politicians, not even helping the war effort which is set for ukraine.

their troops are actually doing stuff. when you look that up? those are our tax dollars. the money is not going for the war. is going to corrupt politicians. number two, being ghastly everyday by biden. when he took office he said inflation was at 9%. he just repeats it over and over. . a lot of people believe everything biden says like it is a cult of personality. republicans are not much better. trump will be getting my vote. it is nonsense listening to these people with the per year eddies and the nonsense. we need to quit being ghastly and take our country back. this is ridiculous. if you have any info, i would like to hear it. host: thank you.

i am not seeing that particular story you mentioned about the ukraine funding and the corruption. if we are able to pull anything up we will circle back. elaine in south glastonbury on the line for republicans. caller: it might not be a top story but i watched tv at 7:00 in the morning, the news. she said shut the door. i had my nine-year-old granddaughter. grandma, they are saying bad words. why don't they clean up their act to be on tv? i am 87. this is the biggest story. inflation. the first time in my life. when trump was in, everything was great and i loved trump. i go to the grocery store. should i pay for my groceries or

finished paying my bills? everything went up skyhigh. not $20. $50 or $100 it went up. i don't know what. biden should be were trump is now. host: can you turn down the volume on your tv and i will let you finish your point? caller: i said biden should be were trump is now. you can see all the dirty things him and his son done. he is still on. i hate when they say, you know, no one is above the law. obama, biden and hillary clinton are all above the law. we had somebody that was really good, trump. they messed him up. when i watched pennsylvania that night, trump was way ahead. then you turn on the news the next day and biden got it. there is no way. that is all i have to say.

the world is in an awful mess. host: thank you, elaine. one of the earlier collars mentioned in attack on an eight convoy in gaza. -- aid convoy in gaza. total outrage. white house condemns israeli settlers' attack on gaza aid trucks. protesters set fire to vehicles at the checkpoint near habron -- hebron. they threw packages of food into the road and. set fire to the vehicles video of the incident on monday at the checkpoint west of hebron in the west bank showed settlers blocking the trucks and throwing boxes of much-needed supplies on the ground. photographs on the scene showed piles of damaged packages and rice and flour on the road.

photos begin circulating on social media showing the trucks on fire. it's a total outrage they are people losing these convoys coming from jordan and going to gaza to deliver humanitarian assistance, u.s. national secured advisor jake sullivan told reporters. mike in east lansing michigan -- east lansing, michigan. caller: good morning. my top story is the justice alito flying the american flag upside down. i wish washington journal would cut the people off who call in and go on and on about how the election was stolen. i would encourage those people, and i would hope washington journal would do the same after the cut these people off, to tell them to go and volunteer as an election worker. they would see it is impossible to create this conspiracy theory that they have.

secondly, if you going to cite all these democrat operatives who have attempted to steal the election, think about it more deeply please. realize these people were caught. there are systems in place to negate these types of activities. i don't understand how anybody could vote for donald j. trump given the fact he was caught and would not turn over boxes and boxes and boxes of top-secret information. he had it in the presence of foreign people from saudi arabia. i would like to say how could you vote for a guy who incited an insurrection? thank you very much for taking my call. host: mike suggested folks who might be interested in learning more about how elections are run

volunteer as poll workers. the election assistance commission has a website for poll worker resources for voters, including the help america vote system to direct you to resources to sign up to be a poll worker if that is something you would like to do. james in ohio on the line for independents. caller: yes. i would like to know why they are not letting rfk junior into the debates. the reason to meet his america is afraid -- me is america's afraid. for the last four elections i have not voted for either guys. he's on our ballot and that's who i'm voting for. host: thank you, james. the story of a that specifically from the hill.

the debated solution undermines moxie. here he says robert f. kennedy, jr. unleashed fury over being left out of the debate conversation after former president trump agreed to go up against president biden on stage. the independent candidate suggested denying him access to the debate is a knock against democracy in a country that values free speech and the exchange of political ideas. he said the democratic and republican nominees are colluding against him for the june 27 debate hosted by cnn. next up we have marty in newport news, virginia. what is your top new story? caller: my top news story is about the college, you know, protests. it is the whole idea that biden is conducting this war. president biden is not conducting this war. it is bibi netanyahu.

pisa right-wing fascist just like trump that he is a right-wing fascist just like trump. he did hold back on the bunker busting bombs but it seems like this whole country is blaming him for the war and the conduction of it in gaza when it is not in yahoo! -- netanyahu conducting this work. that is all i got to say. thank you very much. host: president biden put a hold on a particular shipment of bombs this week. he moved forward on a $1 billion package in the arms for israel. administration notified congress of a large arms package after withholding shipment of bombs last week. the administration notified

congress on tuesday it was moving forward with more than $1 billion in new weapons deals for israel. a massive arms package less than a week after the white house paused a shipment of bombs over plan israeli assault on rafah. it includes the potential transfer of $700 billion in ammunition, tactical vehicles and $60 million in mortar rounds. there are still additional steps before the weapons would be approved and delivered. robin in michigan on the line for democrats. what is your top new story? caller: my top story is the ethics of trump or the republicans and the republican party. where is the ethics committee for trump? trump was graced with the responsibility to be our president.

he was impeached twice. now he's on trial for being a liar, cheat, and a thief. i don't understand when support him -- they support him when in our history when people have done the things he's accused of you could not run to be president. he is saying these horrible things about how our country is being ran. they want him to support it. yes, we are in a crisis inflation. everybody is making. a lot of people are still making it, even a welfare people are still making it. they are able to pay their rent. they are able to drive their car, go to the grocery store. i don't see anybody really suffering. host: dan in south wales, new

york. caller: good morning. my top story is the stock market reaching record highs this week. prices are determined by the supply and demand, people. get educated. you might do well in the market. have a good day. host: coverage of that is on the front page of the wall street journal today. broad-based power dow rally. it was sent to a new milestone, example phis the strength of the u.s. economy across industries. they closed above 40,000 for the first time on friday, a day after eclipsing the mark on an intraday basis. goldman sachs, microsoft, united health group and caterpillar where the top contributors to the ascent from 30,000. was a two thirds of the dow components have notched gains since crossing that mark on november 24, 2020. the movement is not driven by one sector or one stock, says

the president of bolvin wealth management group. it is a broad-based rally. ray in pleasant view, tennessee. what is your top new story? caller: the law and order in this country. you are innocent until proven guilty. they have not proven that donald trump is guilty of anything. it is a farce. they are trying to keep them off the campaign trail. everybody can see that. the way this country is going, the things that happen in our society, law and order, criminals and all this, it's a mess. it is because of joe biden. nobody else besides him. things were going right under donald trump. as far as donald trump being a liar, the economy was at 9.4%

when he took office. host: what do you mean at 9.4? you mean the inflation rate? do you mean the inflation rate was a one -- 9.4%? caller: the inflation rate was at 1.4% when he took office. they got as high as 9%. they came down a little bit. you talk about somebody being a liar? his nose is so long he cannot get around. people have got to wake up. host: hector in point st. lucie, florida -- port st. lucie, florida. caller: i am calling in about the folks calling and talking about what it was like four years ago. you showed the newspaper clippings that people were lining up to get food because of shortages.

look at all that was happening four years ago. when they tell you these how things were four years ago, show them the shortages they were suffering. find out if any of them were taking bleach as recommended by donald trump. wall street reported its best ever record. unemployment for biden has been under 4% for the past two and a half years. these are facts. a lot of folks call and tell things off the top of their head. you have documents you can show to them what is really happening. if you can correct them as you go along. another thing is that somebody called in yesterday and talked about biden being weak and feeble and cannot walk. look at trump last night. he could not keep the pulpit.

biden stood for the state of the union for one hour and nine minutes talking and standing up. when he was finished he walked around and shake hands for another 25 minutes. the other day i was washing dishes at the sink and i was standing for about -- host: i'm going to stop you there and go to georgia on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i actually wanted to call today. our granddaughter had something -- using the backward. host: i'm sorry. your line is breaking up pretty badly. i will have to cut you off.

that is all the time we have recalls this segment. we will be coming back to the people's top new stories later in the show. we have trump campaign senior economic advisor stephen moore who will be here to discuss president biden's economic record and the role the economy is playing in campaign 2024. later, michelle deutchman of the university of california's national center for free-speech and civic engagement will be here to discuss her podcast “speech matters," about free-speech issues on campus and beyond. we will be right back. ♪ >> we will be right back. >> american history tv. exploring the people and events that tell the american story. our series congress investigates looks at historic and congressional investigations that led to changes in policy and law. this week, house committees in

1993 and 1995 examining the seas carried out by the federal government and other law enforcement disease at the branch davidian compound near waco, texas. on lectures with history, the evolution of civil rights law and efforts to dismantle jim crow and racial segregation, including the 1954 brown v. board of education decision. on the presidency, the new york times chief white house correspondent on the evolution of the american vice presidency. he has observed the tenures of al gore to kamala harris. watch american history tv every weekend and find it. yr program guide, or watch onli anytime at c-span.org/history.

next week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are in session. the house will take up legislation clarifying the securities and exchange commission and the commodities futures trading commission's ability to regulate digital assets and cryptocurrency. the senate will take a procedural re-vote on a bill blocked earlier this year. secretary of state antony blinken will testify before two congressional committees to discuss his department's proped budget, and the state of global security. wednesday, before the house foreign affairs committee. thursday, northwestern university's presint and the ucla chancellor, and rutgers university -- give an account of the anti-semitic protests on their campus. beginning friday, live coverage of the three day libertarian party convention. friday's speakers include 2024

independent candidate robert f. kennedy, jr. watch next week live on the c-span networks, or on c-span now, our free mobile video app. also, head to c-span.org for scheduling information. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are joined now by stephen moore. he is the trump 2024 campaign senior economic advisor, also a former trump economic task force advisor from 2020 and the current founder of the committee to unleash posterity. welcome to "washington journal." can you hear me, mr. moore? guest: good. super to be with you. i so much appreciate what you do at c-span for public dialogue on these important policy issues,

so i am honored to be with you. host: wonderful. looking forward to hearing what our callers have for you later on in the show. first, can you talk about the committee to unleash prosperity, your point of view, and who funds your organization? guest: so this was an organization we founded -- i think it was about six or seven years ago. it was four of us. larry kudlow -- steve forbes, and myself. those three are icons in the economic movement. we wanted a platform to have the four of us be able to speak out with one voice about the important issues of the day, and we all got involved with trump in 2016. of course, larry kudlow became the chief economist for the trump administration. so we all are still very

involved on helping any candidate, whether for senator or governor, to provide the best economic advice. host: can you talk about the advice you are giving the current trump campaign and your role in this election? guest: i am kind of one of the advisors with people like kevin hassett and people like larry kudlow and others. we provide donald trump with policy proposals. one thing about donald trump is he is a businessman. he understands the economy about as well as anyone. i think one of the major differences between these two candidates is joe biden has never really had a job in his life. in fact, he said that recently, that he had never gotten a paycheck from a private company, and trump has been a very from perspective. one man is a lifelong politician, the other has been in business. my point is, when i see donald

trump, we talk about the economy, but he gets it. he understands it, because he has done it. he has created jobs, created businesses. he has really good instincts about how to make the economy work. host: a recent piece on foxnews.com, biden 2.0, five ways the president plans to mess up the economy in his second term. without reading the whole thing, can you give us a highlight of what you think those are? guest: when you look at what joe biden has proposed -- by the way, i've been in politics 40 years. i've been doing c-span now three decades. most of the time, when an election comes up, the democrats will try to move to the middle and say we are moderate, you know, we have centrist positions. to joe biden's credit, he is not saying i am moderate, he is not saying i am for sensible middle positions. he has embraced a very radical left-wing agenda.

maybe that is what america wants, but he proposed the biggest tax increase in american history, including doubling the capital gains tax, including raising our tax on businesses to a higher tax rate than even russia and china have. it would increase the death tax and destroy investment in this country. on top of the massive deficits he has already imposed on the country, he has imposed another $2 trillion of spending. one of the things that makes me nervous, as a conservative, is i do believe there will be an attempt by biden and a democratic congress, if that is what happens in the election, that there will be a move to tax the supreme court with more liberal judges, in other words, at that is so they have a majority. i am worried about the filibuster in the senate, one of the safeguards that protects the interests of the minority, that they may try to get rid of that filibuster.

there was an attempt to do that in the last couple years. those things would be dangerous to our representative of government. host:host: you mentioned taxes, one of those things you brought up just now, and i want to pull up something from the brookings. william gale, who is a fellow at the brs initution, said many of the household tax reforms included in the 2017 billtax bill, expire in 2025, meaning thawhoever wins the election -- excuse me -- whoever wins the election will have the opportunity to either fight to extend the legislation et it lapse. an important eff extending the 2017 tax cuts is it is estimatedst a extra $3.8 trilver e next dece without significantly cutting services. federal debt would balloon to 211% of gdp by 1154, compared to about 11% of gdp right now.

by this argument, extending the existing tax cuts would be damaging to the debt and deficits, while you are arguing in your piece that biden would damage to that and deficits. guest: this is incredibly important. you have two diametrically opposite views of what we should do with the american economy. what trump believes is we have to unleash american businesses and workers. we have to have the best economy in the world. we have to grow the economy -- by the way, people know he can do it, because he did it when he was president. before covid, we had the best economy in american history, with the lowest poverty rate for every group. we had the lowest unemployment, a booming economy, then, of course, covid hit, and everything changed. it is really interesting, because you talk about the debt -- i think it is safe to say there is no president, at least

in my lifetime, and i've been doing policy for 40 years, that has been as financially reckless as this president. he increased the debt projection over the next 10 years by almost $10 trillion. he came in and spent $6 trillion. most people know that $6 trillion of spending, borrowing, and printing of money created the inflation that has been such a damage to the american worker and the american family. the bottom line people have to understand is, -- the middle class saw a $6,200 again in their purchasing power and income. that is a big game, maybe the biggest ever under any president. biden has come in, in his first three years, about three and a half years, in office, the average family has lost $2000

because of high inflation. in other words, when people say, why are people angry? because the average family in america today is poorer than three and half years ago. i remember the first campaign i ever paid attention to is when ronald reagan ran against rumi carter in 1980, in that very famous election. you may recall that, at the end of the debate that jimmy carter and ronald reagan had, reagan looked right at the camera and asked the american people, are you better off than you were four years ago? of course, at that time, americans said no, we are not worse off, and reagan won the election. i think that is the same question donald trump will ask the american people when they debate in june and later in the fall. are you better off financially than you were four years ago, and for the vast majority of americans, that answer is no. host: i want to follow-up on the point you made about purchasing power, because there is a report out from the congressional

budget office this week about how inflation has affected household at different income levels since 2019, right before biden came into office. the cbo says, on average, purchasing power increase, but the effect varied by income group. in particular, for households in every point i'll, or fifth, of the income situation, their share of income required to pay for their consumption bundle decreased on average, because income grew faster than prices did over that four-year period. houses in the top quintile had the largest decline on average -- although it was decreasing across the board. how does that line up with what you are saying about purchasing power decreasing over time? guest: because that number started in 2019, guess who was president in 2019?

it was donald trump. trump was president in 2019 and 2020. 2019 was the best year ever for increases because tax cuts kicked in and we have the booming economy. what you had was a huge increase in income in 2019, then you had covid, then biden came in. remember, inflation, which had been at about 1.5% when trump was president, immediately skyrocketed to 9.1%. i want to make your people understand that when joe biden keep saying the inflation rate was 9.1% when he came into office, that was a lie. you can look up the statistics. inflation was at 1.5% throughout most of trump's presidency, then immediately went up to the highest rates since jimmy carter was president, and that is what ruined family incomes. that is why people are so angry. when i go to the gas pump, the cash register at grocery stores -- in fact, most people who i talk to, when i just need normal people, they will say, inflation

is up only 20%. but food prices are up 25%, gas prices are up 50%. mortgage payments are up 30% or 40%. people are really suffering from these higher prices. i know that you know that, because you talk to people every day at c-span. the bottom line is the really big gains in income under trump and really swift declines in income under biden. host: i want to talk about the stock market here, back to the wall street journal, highlighting the dow jones industrial top 40,000 for the first time -- a little bit more on that. it was a milestone that appeared implausible a little more than two years ago, when the federal reserve began raising interest rates to cool an overheated economy, the gloom and doom forecast ended the era of ultralow rates. but employers kept adding jobs, people kept spending, splurging on big ticket items.

and the recession predicted by so many economists has not materialized, giving investors hope that stocks might keep climbing. the biden campaign communications director there spotted to this news about tao crossing 40,000, saying this -- t dowrossg 40,000, saying this is the toughest time yet for the guy rooting for the stock market crashed because it would help him politically. joe biden instead has broken economic records across the board. your reaction to that? guest: i want to make two points. first of all, the fact that we reached the dow, 40,000 is an amazing achievement for america. by the way, we have 150 million americans who own stock, either individually through their own purchases of a stock or through their pension funds or their

401(k) plans. so this benefits everybody, when you have a great stock market. it is fantastic. i want to go back to the early 1980's, to adjust highlight what an achievement this is. if you go back to the summer of 1982, about the time ronald reagan entered office, the dow jones industrial average -- are you ready for this? i know this is going to astound people. the dow jones industrial average was at 800. at 800. now, today, 40 years later, we're at 40,000? this is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of civilization. no country has ever lived through anything like what we have seen in america. it is a tribute to our companies, our workers, our economic policies. it is fantastic. by the way, one of the things i've been saying on c-span for 30 years -- it's so sinister we did not do this. we should have allowed workers,

and this is something people like steve forbes and i and others happen arguing for for decades -- we should allow every single worker, instead of having to take 10% of their paycheck and send it into the black hole of social security, they should be able to voluntarily, instead, put that into a 401(k) plan, put it into the stock market and index funds. if we had done that -- i just turned 64. i've been paying social security for the past 40 years. if i had been able to put 10% of my paycheck into an index fund today, when i retire -- next year, i will be eligible for social security. instead of getting a check for $2500 a month, i would be getting a check for $10,000 a month. so let's reform social security, let every single young person take that money voluntarily, if they choose to do it, and put it into an index fund rather than have it go into social security.

every single american would be a pension millionaire if we had done that. that is point number one. the second point i want to make is it is true that the dow jones is up to 40,000, but remember, you have to account for inflation. if you take into account inflation, the stock market is barely up at all, because, yeah, the stock market is up 22 percent, but inflation is up 20%, so it is not that great of an achievement -- host: but the rate of inflation has been inclining -- has been declining, now closer to historical averages. guest: yeah, that is good news. that is right. the stock market, over the last -- since biden came into office, the stock market is up about 24%, 25 percent, and inflation is up 20%, so the real gain in the stock market is only about 4% or 5%, much, much lower. the real gain in stocks under trump was about 25%, so much, much higher.

there is no question people did much better in the market under trump, because, remember, there was not any inflation under trump. that 9% inflation you're talking about did not go away. the prices are still -- just ask anybody at the grocery store pure look at what cost to buy a box of wheaties -- host: there are a bunch of folks who want to talk to you, so i have one more question before we get to the callers. there was a story in the wall street journal i wanted to flag for you. at the end of april, an exclusive said trump allies draw plans to blunt the fed's independence, that trump's allies are drafting proposals that would attempt to erode the federal reserve's independence if trump wins a second term. is this true? guest: no, it isn't. i've been telling reporters that is just a false story. there is no truth to it whatsoever. we do believe in the independence of the fed.

we would like to see more transparency at the fed. we would like to see a more rules-based monetary policy, so investors and americans know what the fed is going to do. but, no, the fed should be independent and will resume its independence when trump wins next year. there will be a new fed chairman. i do not know who that will be. but i will assure people that the independence of the fed from the white house and from politics will be preserved specifically on two of the points brought up in this article, it says -- the white house should be able to review and more forcefully use the treasury department as a check on the central bank. none of those things are true? guest: it is true that we think the president should be informed

about what is happening with the fed and what decisions they are making in terms of when they are going to raise rates and lower rates and many of the other decisions the fed makes. the fact that you have a federal reserve board that is completely divorced from any clinical accountability i do think is a problem. -- from any political accountability i do think is a problem. the other is it is an open question about whether or not the president would have the authority to remove the fed chairman. i am not a constitutional scholar, so i cannot answer that question. i've asked some people who are constitutional scholars, who say the president should have the authority to do it. others say the president doesn't, so i am probably not the right person to ask whether the president has the authority. host: do you think he should? guest: look, jerome powell will have one more year as chairman

if trump wins the election. i would advise the president to keep jerome powell as the fed chairman for another year, then, when he is up for renomination, to nominate someone else other than jerome powell. i think jerome powell has been, on balance, a pretty poor fed chairman. he is the one who was also responsible for allowing the inflation rate to go up to 9.1%, the highest rate in 40 years. the has done great damage to american families. inflation is a killer. it's like a sales tax you pay every time you go to the store. host: we have tons of folks with questions for you. democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. just because we have a lot of folks with questions, i will ask everyone to keep it a little concise, starting with jean in

michigan with our line for republicans. caller: good morning. my question is about discretionary spending. if the congress holds the purse strings, then how does president biden, how is he able to forgive student loans and give cellphones to illegals and all the things he's doing. does he have an unlimited amount of discretionary spending? host: thank you for the question . guest: that is a great question. i do not think there is any doubt about it that the president has overstepped his authority. jean is exactly right. if you look at the constitution, it says the spending happens by congress. it has to be authorized and appropriated by congress. there was never any appropriation of money for student loan bailouts.

i happen to think student loan bailouts are one of the craziest things i've ever heard of -- why a middle-class worker who never went to college should have to pay higher taxes for people who did go to college i think is crazy. but even if you agree with the policy, the president does not have unilateral authority to spend money like this. by the way, it is amazing, because the supreme court has told joe biden, you do not have the authority to do this. so it has not been approved by congress, the supreme court says you cannot do it, and biden is doing it anyway. then they say donald trump is the threat to democracy. i think this is an outrageous breach of power by the presidency, and i think it should be grounds for impeachment, that he feels like he can just spend money without the authority of congress and when the supreme court says you do not have the power to do it. host: john in michigan on our line for democrats. go ahead, and can you turn down

the volume on your tv, please. caller: good morning. host: we need you to turn down the volume on your tv and then ask your question. all right, while we wait for you to get that together, let's go to joe on our line for republicans. good -- caller: good morning. i want to say i love you very much come along with thomas paine and larry kudlow. i want to give my democrat friends some facts. -- host: mr. moore has already given us quite a few facts. can you ask your question, please? caller: i just wanted to tell you, i cannot wait until trump gets into office. your economy is a disaster. it is 19% under joe biden.

also, joe biden lied about reducing the deficit by $1.7 trillion. he had bottomless pinocchios by the washington post on that comment. also, our interest rates -- host: what is your question for mr. moore? caller: that is it, that is my point. thank you, ma'am. host: thank you. nikki on our line for independents. caller: good morning. i have one quick question. why did you avoid answering the moderator's question about where you receive your funding from? second question, why is it that the only time i ever see you is on fox news spreading propaganda -- host: he is on c-span right now. he is currently on c-span.

ok. mr. moore, could you address the question on funding for your organization? guest: yeah, sure. by the way, i do fox news, but for two years, i was with cnn, which is obviously a more liberal station. by the way, this is, in my life, probably my 40th parents on c-span. i love coming on your show and talking to people of all political persuasions. our committee on press rarity is a 501(c)(3), charitable educational organization. we get money from our contributors, who voluntarily donate. by the way, we do not get one single penny -- not one penny -- from government. we are totally rapidly funded, so we do not have a bias in favor of government because we are taking funding from government agencies. host: next up is joe in maine on

our line for independents. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: i got to be brief, so that is you, stephen moore, who is lying about being an economic advisor to donald trump. you were never an economic reviser to donald trump. you had an application in and it got thrown out, because you had a bankruptcy, and a very messy divorce -- host: all right. would you like to address whether or not you were ever an economic advisor for donald trump? guest: was i an economic advisor for trump? is that the question? host: that was the question. guest: yes. i served on the president's economic recovery task force for covid. it is true i was nominated to be on the federal reserve board and it is true i did not make it, and it is true i had to withdraw. and it is true i had a messy

divorce. those things are true. but it is not true -- by the way, i will tell you a quick story, and it tells you about how sinister the irs is pay one of the reasons i had to withdraw was i had a tax lien. the irs claimed i owed the irs $50,000 in unpaid taxes came my wife and i said, wait a minute, we actually think we overpaid our taxes by $50,000. either this will relate to a lot of people, because you get the notices from the irs. they do not even tell you why you owe it. to make a long story short, this -- the new york times put it on the front page of their newspaper that steve moore owed $50,000 in taxes. after the whole thing was over, we get a letter from the irs that says, whoopsie-daisy, you made a mistake and overpaid, not

underpaid. the point is, it is so unfair. the irs is a really dangerous organization, because they go after people for political purposes. you are literally guilty until you prove yourself innocent. that is why hiring 80,000 new irs agents, like biden wants to do, is dangerous for our country. host: stan is on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i have a question. i want to find out where he gets his funding. he says he does not get it from the government, but who is funding the? host: you did mention you get your contributions from private donors for the committee to unleash prosperity. are there pollute -- are there particular donors who are significant donors to your group? guest: by the way, we have about a $4 million or $5 million budget. we are not a huge organization.

we have a lot of impact for that amount of money, but it is basically individual private donors. host: no names you want to give out? guest: those are not disposable, and the donors -- those are not discloseable, and the donors - by the way, any 501(c)(3) is not required to disclose who their donors are. basically, we got most of it from individuals and not lobbyists or government. host: cindy is on. make sure you turn down the volume on your tv. caller: good morning. my question, since he thinks donald trump is the greatest president and biden is the worst, i need him to be very specific as to what donald trump is going to do if -- and i hope not -- he becomes president. thank you, have a great day. guest: well, that is a great question. the first thing we are going to

do -- and donald trump has said this -- we will produce american energy. we will produce our oil, our gas, our clean coal, we will use nuclear power. we will return to being the number one producer of energy in the world, as we were under donald trump. it is important for people to understand, under trump, his policy was to produce every single drop of oil we could, both because it is good for the american economy, it an incredible amount of american jobs, and we want to be independent -- we do not want to be dependent on opec or iran or china or russia. we want to get it from west virginia. for the first time under my lifetime, under trump, we were completely energy independent. i want to make sure people understand this. that is not just good for our economy. obviously, it is. but it is also really important for american national security. my gosh, i do not think you

would have soviet tanks in ukraine today if biden hadn't come in and stopped american production of oil and gas paid i do not think you would have the problems we are seeing in the middle east. who do you think is the biggest beneficiary of joe biden's war on american energy? china, russia, iran, venezuela, our enemies. that will be our priority. we will make our tax cuts permanent, so we will get the economy moving again. we will get rid of some of these onerous regulations on the american economy, and we will try to reduce taxes on middle-class families and small businesses. host: speaking of those tax cuts again, there is a headline from your former employer, cnn, that, in april fundraiser in palm beach, florida, trump told wealthy donors he wants to extend to his 2017 tax cuts and

specifically that trump reportedly told wealthy donors to his campaign that he would keep their taxes low and extend the 2017 tax cuts. is that the campaign policy? guest: yes, absolutely. i want to make sure people understand this. and i helped write that tax cuts, with larry kudlow and some of the best economists. by the way, none of the democrats voted for this, not one of them. it was an incredible success. one of the things we did was took the american -- the u.s. tax on american businesses, which was the highest in the world -- in other words, we were putting our american companies at a huge disadvantage when they competed against the europeans, the mexicans, the chinese, the japanese. we took them from the highest in the world -- host: the feist effect of -- the highest effective rate? guest: the highest statutory rate -- host: but not the highest --

guest: we had a system we had all these loopholes. we lowered the rate, got rid of these loopholes. i want to make sure people understand this. after trump's tax cuts, the share of taxes paid by the rich dramatically increased, and the share of taxes paid by the middle class and lower income people fell. that is just a fact. the idea that this was just a big tax cut for rich people is wrong. these are important facts people have to understand. we are, today, we are raising the most revenue for the united states government ever. ever. so we do not have a tax problem. we have plenty of tax money. the problem is we are spending trillions and trillions of dollars too much money. we have got to get control of this budget, and i hope trump will do that. i know this. joe biden has no interest in cutting spending. in fact, he proposed another $2

trillion more spending on top of the $6 trillion he has already put in place. what is so sinister about our economy right now, and the reason why a two thirds of americans think of the economy is headed in the wrong direction, is because we have this giant debt. it is consumer debt, the federal debt. we cannot continue. this is like the titanic -- host: very quickly, speaking on the national debt, the biggest drivers of the debt and deficit tended to be the entitlement programs, some of the biggest drivers, like medicare and social security. what is the trump campaign strategy to tackle the debt and deficit related to that? guest: donald trump has promised he will not cut social security, so social security benefits -- social security is not the problem. as i said earlier, i actually think the social security benefits are too low, given how much money we paid into the system. the reason you have a deficit in social security is congress

stole $2 trillion from its social security trust fund and spent it on other programs. both republicans and democrats did that. on health care, what trump is saying, why don't we have more health care transparency on what things cost, so you go to the hospital, go for a medical service, you actually know what these things cost. what are the industry where you go to a store and they do not tell you what the price tag is? i think more transparency in terms of what things cost would be a substantial benefit in terms of bringing down the costs of health care and making sure we still have the best health care in the world. host: barry in ohio on our line for independents. caller: ok. the problem i have with what is being said is, first of all, covid caused a lot of the rises. and donald trump did absolutely

nothing to help. and it takes time for those kinds of effects to affect the economy. and it did. and it did. then joe biden comes in and he's dealing with covid, which donald trump did nothing about. if you remember -- host: is your question what mr. moore thinks about the impact of covid on the inflation we have been seeing? is that the question? caller: yes, that is a good way to put it. host: let's let him respond to that. guest: basically, covid hit in march of 2020. so what happened was -- by the way, we just did a big report on it from the committee for prosperity. i believe, and i think the evidence is crystal clear on this, that locking down the u.s.

economy, shutting down our schools, that was one of the most catastrophic policies in american history. we never, never, never again can allow the government to shut down our schools, our businesses, our churches. it did not work. in fact, more people died from covid lockdowns then died from covid. we estimate about 30,000 people's lives were saved by lockdowns but about 300,000 people died from lockdowns because of delayed health care, because of depression, suicide, because of things like alcoholism and drug abuse and things like that. lockdowns were a disaster. by the way, i love donald trump, but i think they made a big mistake in locking down the economy. here is the thing. when joe biden came into office, guess what? covid was coming to an end. the economy was starting to make a big recovery in the last six months of trump's presidency. was -- what was the first thing

joe biden did when he came into office? he spent another $1 trillion, then another $1 trillion and another $1 trillion. this is not complicated. if you're going to spend $6 trillion and you will spend that money by printing money, you will have inflation. it was so obvious that was going to happen. so the inflation rate went from 1.5% when trump left office, 18 months later, it was at 9%, and it was because of the massive spending spree that did so much damage to the american economy. we have got to get control of government spending if we are going to get inflation under control. by the way, inflation is ticking up again. it is back over 4% in the last few months. we have to get inflation below 2%. host: kyle on our line for republicans. caller: hey, i am going to be honest. i am super disappointed in c-span -- host: we do not like ad hominem attacks.

next, our line for democrats. caller: good morning kate how is anybody today? host: good. caller: in 2020, trump saw an opportunity to invest in the black community. he was talking about the platinum plan, and a fusion of cash to build the economy. where are we with that right now? guest: i am not exactly sure -- what did you call that plan again? host: he called at the platinum plan. guest: i am not familiar with that. all i can say is one of the things we did in the trump administration was we did the enterprise -- to help bring capital and investment into depressed areas and inner cities. that is going to be a big priority. i've talked to president trump any times about this. he wants to do anything he can to bring investment into areas that have been neglected. but i've got to tell you this, under donald trump -- if you are

a minority, hispanic or black, we have the lowest unemployment rate ever in the history of the country for black and hispanic americans. we have the lowest poverty rate ever in the history of the united states under donald trump for blacks and hispanics. we had the biggest gain in income and family income for blacks and hispanics ever under the history of the country under donald trump. the idea that trump is a racist -- if you look at his policies, minorities were the biggest beneficiaries of some of -- of many of these policies. host: this seems to be related to a document that came out in the 2020 campaign, which was the platinum plan, donald trump's pillars for black americans, including a promise that, over four years, there would be 3 million new jobs for the black community, new black owned businesses, an increase in

capital for black amenities by 500 billion dollars, and a variety of other things. i think that is what they were referencing. guest: we want to do that, yet. host: that was in the 2020 campaign. so how do you think the administration made progress on those goals while trump was in office? guest: that is exactly what trump wants to do. obviously, he did not win -- host: excuse me, 2016. guest: all i was going to say is we hope to put in place a program like that for 2024. donald trump wants to help people at the bottom of the economic ladder. the people at the top are doing just fine. people who have been hurt by biden's policies are not rich people. the people really hurt by inflation are middle-class people who do the shopping, the lower income people who cannot afford to pay a 22% increase in groceries and 40% more for gas and 50% more for rental

payments. they are the people getting financially crushed by these biden inflation numbers. host: next is ken on our line for independents. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: mr. moore, when i sit and listen to c-span and i hear an individual like you coming to talk, i wonder who you are talking to? are you talking to people who are simply uneducated? are you talking to black people who gave up on the american dream? are you talking to the hispanics working out all day on the fields? when you talk about donald trump and how great he is in this and that, especially now that you said something about blacks and minorities did well under donald trump, but you never answered how many of those jobs or this and that that he created in the black community? yes, trump is a racist, let's just be real about it -- host: let's respond to the point about who do you think your

target audience is, especially about the economy in the second -- in this campaign? guest: great question. sometimes we put too much currency in polls/. -- in polls. but what the polls are showing, at least in terms of the polling, black americans, it is quite possible that, if trump wins this election, he could win it with a record number of lack voters, because blacks are the ones -- he could win it with a record number of black voters. when i am saying is inflation is the worst tax of all, because it hurts the lowest income people the most. it is regressive. if you want to help solve the problems of lower income families -- hispanics and blacks are working hard. they are working hard. they're doing a lot of the great

, important jobs in this country. the country would nonfiction without them. but if you are making $12 an hour but your prices are going up and up, you are really financially strained. host: miriam in texas on our line for democrats. caller: ok, so i hear that blacks have been hit the most. but yet, you are not giving us any details. you're not giving us solutions. higher minimum wage, a child tax credit, cuts for the poor, those are the things we want to he ar. but you're not telling us. you are saying trump will come in and reinstate the trump tax cuts, and you know, because you are a smart guy, you know those trump tax cuts were only for the rich -- host: let's give mr. moore a chance to respond.

what is the campaign's stance on potentially raising the federal minimum wage? guest: well, wages went up faster under trump than any under president -- host: right, but the federal minimum wage. would you be in favor of raising it? guest: look, my own view is we should let the states decide their own policy on what their minimum wage is. here something that is really important. one of the most important issues for minorities, especially black and hispanic families, is school choice, so every single child in america can go to the best possible school, whether it is a public school, a charter school, a catholic school -- host: the other issue miriam mentioned was the child tax credit. what about that one? guest: the average family today, if you have a middle income, you said about $1500 to $2000 a year

in your taxes. when biden said he will repeal the trump tax cut, he said i will raise your taxes in the middle classes. the most important thing right now for minorities is to make sure kids have access to a great school. donald trump is saying every single child in america should be able to go to whatever school they want to, and joe biden is saying, no, i oppose that. even if you have a lousy, failing schools in baltimore and new york and chicago and milwaukee, you have to send your kid to a failing school. how are minority kids going to be able to compete when they go to schools who do not even teach them how to read or write or do arithmetic? it is outrageous joe biden says he cares about minorities but will not let minority kids go to great schools. host: last caller, mike. caller: thanks, steve, for all you do.

i wish you would explain to the viewers, listeners, when joe biden leans into the microphone and whispers that he cut the deficit by 1.7 trillion dollars, please explain to everybody the difference between the national debt and the yearly deficit. thanks. host: let's get an explanation. guest: i am glad you mentioned that, because we happen talking about the economy, and we really have not mentioned what joe biden has done to blow up our debt. by the way, this is something our children, our ran children, our great -- our grandchildren, our great grandchildren will be paying off. i am not just blaming democrats. republicans share the response ability for this. but go over the last 250 years in our country, there has been no president in the history of the country that has been more financially reckless than joe biden. justin the first six months of this year alone, we are supposed

to be in a recovery, and we borrowed another $1 trillion. it is mindnumbing the insanity of these policies. if we had four more years of this, where they add another $6 trillion to our debt, i think the economy is going to absolutely collapse. we have got to grow the economy, brings bending down, and we are not going to deal with this by raising taxes. everyone knows the problem is too much spending in washington, not too much revenue. host: thank you for your time. stephen moore is the 2024 trump campaign's senior economic advisor and the founder of the committee for prosperity. we appreciate your time. guest: thank you. love c-span. you guys are the voice of reason in america. host: in about 30 minutes, we will the joint about michelle deutchman of the university of california national center for free speech and civic engagement. we will talk about her podcast

"speech matters" about free speech issues on campus and beyond. first, we are returning to the question we asked at the start of today's program, what is your top news story of the week? the numbers are on your screen. we will be right back. ♪ >> do you solemnly swear that, in the testimony you are about to give, it will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> saturday, watch american history tv's congress investigates as we explore major investigations in our history. also, see historic footage from these periods and examined the impacts from key congressional hearings. today, we look at the investigations that follow the deadly 1993 siege at the branch davidian compound near waco, te

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c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, live and on amanda. keep up with the date's biggest events of floor proceedings, white house events, the courts, campaigns, and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episode of washington journal and via scheduling information for the tv networks. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it for free today or visit our website, c-span.org/cspannow. c-span now, your front row seat to washington, anytime, anywhere. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back.

we are looking for your top ws story of the week. some of the biggest stories we have been following here on c-span includes the news that biden and trump agreed to debate. also news from the new york times that a stop the steel flag was hanging outside of surf cream court judge alito's house -- was hanging ouide of supreme court judge alito's house -- d e news about nfl player harrison --speaking at the commencement speech and the reaction to the comments that he made there. high lysing -- highlighting the news about the presidential debate, here is the reaction from the commission on presidential debates, who said the news about these debates was a shocker to everyone, because the commission on presidential

debates, which traditionally manages these things, was not included in this process. [video clip] >> this was the shock of the day for everybody. there was no news anywhere that this was going to happen. we normally do not have contact with the candidates until after their convention, when they become, officially, nominees of the parties that are on the ballots in every state, so this was interesting, particularly because, at the time the first debate is scheduled, i think it is june 27, only about seven states will have completed their ballot questions of who will appear on their ballot. i think what happened here is -- you said it correctly. both are trying to get leverage against each other, and they may be successful, they may not. when they have to sit around the table, i wish i could be a fly on the -- in the office about they will have to answer who will sit where, how long they will have to answer questions,

and so forth. the reason the commission was created, back in 1987, was to have neutral people making the decisions. that is the commission. we will see if they will be able to do it. that will be a long shot. host: more news on that from politico. biden and trump said they would not participate in the commission on presidential debate's proposed schedule, placing doubt on whether any debates would take place at all. whenever back channeling took place burst out when the biden campaign cited several reasons for pulling out of the cpd's de bate, that it would take place too late, that the model was integrated, and the commission was unable or unwilling to enforce the rules in the 2020 debate when trump famously talked over biden and the moderator. trump had previously had heavy criticism for the cpd.

now, those debates will be happening on cnn and abc but will leave out rfk junior, at least as it appears now. -- pointing out he had recently achieved enough signatures to get on the ballot in texas. [video clip] >> texas only gave us 45 days to collect 113 thousand signatures. we got more than double that. i was talking to the team who completed the signatures, and they said we are on the way to new york tonight. new york is the next one for us. we have 10 days to complete. the two hardest states are new york and texas. we already got more than we need in new york.

[cheers] [applause] the dnc has done everything in their power to stop us and will continue to do that, but we are going to get on the ballot in every single state. i want to thank all of you who are part of this. [cheers] [applause] host: the reason rfk seems to be left -- rfk junior seems to be left out of the debates at this pot because of the criteria cnn and abc have laid out, the constitutionally eligible to serve as president, file a statement of candidacy with federal election commission, have tame appear on enough states' ballots to reach the threshold of 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency, and even with texas, at this pot, it does not appear rfk

junior has meant that threshold yet. let's go to your calls for your top news story of the week, starting with russell in south carolina on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: hey, good morning. i wante dto say that public education is my top story, because the republicans keep saying that school choice should be black and brown people's primary concern, but in south carolina, senate bill 39 is already in effect. it's defunding public schools. it's also -- the associated press actually said that this bill is actually re-segregating public schools by moving people out of public schools, and their federal and state dollars follow them. when trump's financial advisor

just screamed about black and brown people want school choice, we want public education. we want public schools to be funded equally. what they are doing, it goes right back to brown v. the boar d, and how re-segregated schools are defunded in america at an extremely high rate. that is my top news story of the week. host: thanks for your call. john in arkansas on our line for republicans. caller: i'd have to say the top story of the week is joe biden coming out of the closet and saying he will actually do a debate. however, you have to watch out that it is not going to be with jake trapper. host: do you mean jake tapper, one of the moderators? caller: did i say trapper? my mistake. host: sabrina is on our line for

independents. caller: yeah, i was actually trying to talk with -- about what that gentleman was talking about with the economy, but if i had to pick one thing to say about the current events, technically, biden is not physically capable of being our president. he is over his term limits. i have no idea why the democratic party did not field another candidate -- host: what do you mean his term limits? caller: term limits in the white house. you can only serve eight years in the white house -- host: as president. caller: altogether. that includes vice president and president. you can serve either four years as a president or you can serve four more years as a president -- host: i do not believe that is -- caller: c, you are forgetting the constitution. i am so sorry you have.

we have a dangerous -- we have biologics forced on us. you have completely forgotten the constitution. but there are term limits on the white house, and biden is over his. anyway, he is not physically able to do it, so why didn't the democratic party put forth a candidate? host: so here is the relevant clause from the president -- constitution of the nine. no person should be elected to the office of the president more than twice, and no one who has acted as president for more than two years of a term to which one person was elected as president should be elected to the office of the president more than once. kerry in texas on our line for democrats. go ahead. caller: yeah. the debate coming up. i've questions i would love for you to ask trump. why did we sell the largest

refinery in the united states to saudi arabia? that is one question. the second question is why did we let china control of the -- market? third, why did we give japan control of our -- next, why is south america, brazil, in charge of the -- why did we sell that? why are they controlling that? if he can answer those questions in the debate, i want to hear that. host: todd in florida on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: thank you very much.

my question is about the maga supreme court justice, samuel alito, flying an american flag -- host: you called in on the republican line. are you a republican? caller: yes. host: go ahead. caller: well, yes, i am. thank you. my question is why did samuel alito fly an american flag upside down outside of his house as a symbol of "stop the steal"? he's signaling that he is a supporter of the january 6 insurrection and donald trump's attempt to overturn a legal election. can samuel alito be impeached, along with clarence thomas, whose wife was one of the architects was the -- whose wife was one of the architects of the insurrection? host: you would have to ask a

lawyer or constitutional law person that question, but thank you for that question. next, our -- caller: can you hear me? host: yes,. -- yes. caller: thanks for taking my call. my top story of the week is the trump trial. i do not know if people are following, it is absolutely disgusting to see the conspiracy to try to payoff a porn star, and everybody around, donald trump, equally donald trump, everybody was involved. so we had a candidate for president, back then, who was using mafia-like codes to direct people to commit this crime,

talk on text messages like, that is fine, if he wins, he will pardon us. when he was caught on tape bragging that he likes to assault women, his wife. that locker room topic. if you stop to listen, just a little bit, the evidence against donald trump is overwhelming. it is overwhelming. it is disgustin. host: ok. circling back to that previous caller who asked about impeaching a supreme court justice, i found an article in politico, an opinion piece on how to impeach a supreme court justice, pointing out it has never been done successfully, saying that lawmakers should

investigate whether it clarence thomas, in this case, his behavior merits and attempt. this is a piece back from 23 to about revelations that virginia thomas exchanged text messages leading up to the january 6 attack on the capital. moving down, in the article, it says 15 federal judges have been impeached, 8 removed from office. others resigned in the wake of the scandal instead. one thing is clear. unlike for presidents, there is ample precedence for firing federal judges by impeachment, though no supreme court judge has been fired this way. moreover, the standard governing judge's removal is arguably lower than that for president. -- govern judges and presidents alike, as does the two step

procedure outlined in the constitution, whereby articles of impeachment past the house of representatives on a bare majority vote and conviction in the senate occurs by trial by a two thirds majority. the super majority threshold ensures thomas would almost never be removed from office, however ugly the facts are on investigation, because it is inconceivable republicans would vote against thomas and give biden another supreme court pick. moving back to your calls, patrick in virginia on our line for independents. go ahead. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i'm going to i am going to suggest a big story in the future. my concern is that robert kennedy, jr. is not being allowed to receive any secret service protection. president biden has denied him

secret service protection. he is a legitimate candidate. i know there are a lot of independent candidates who have not really shown much in the percentages, but robert kennedy, jr. is going to be a third-party candidate. i think he should be given secret service protection. i hate to think of another kennedy dying by assassination. thank you. host: thank you for your call. there's a story about that in usa today from april 11. the headline "an abuse of discretion: robert kennedy jr. response to the latest secret service denial. the department secretary denied

kennedy's fifth request for secret service protection. in a march 28 letter to the campaign, it was determined to protection is not warranted after consulting with an advisory committee comprising of top congressional leaders and the senate sergeant at arms. " joe is on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: i love the show. i think the big story of the week is the trump-biden debate and i want to predict that trump will win the debate and will win in a landslide. we are having a meeting to discuss how trump will win in a landslide. c-span does a great job. i think trump will wind in a

huge landslide. host: what kind of barbecue will you have? caller: oh, gosh. it is one of the famous places in the country. we meet there, it is a republican barbecue. we are having top speakers come from all over the country. we meet there and we get fired up about republican candidates like trump. trump will carry my county by 85%, 90%. we love c-span and just want to say you all do an incredible job. please keep up the great work you do. host: thank you. jeremy is in terre haute, indiana on our line for independents. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to speak up on the behalf of independents.

my bloodline has a heritage of ronald reagan, john adams, john quincy adams. i understand political royalty. i understand what comes along with political royalty, like royal families. with our country that is a divided nation, under one god, and we swear by oath on the bible which is the new law of christ -- host: what is your top news story this week? caller: we should not be so divided. the political debates between republican and democrat is a division of what is written in the bible. in my personal opinion, and trying to be loyal to my country, my state was not very well to me. they took my rights away with the religious freedom act. they forced me onto suicidal

drugs, pharmaceutical drugs. it is a big influence in indiana . big political gains come from those organizations. can't find a human rights lawyer that would take a case like that. it is a bigger message. that christ consciousness is a real thing. with that comes supernatural powers that most people do not understand. host: thank you. gary is in florida for democrats. caller: yes, i want to talk about inflation. your previous guest kept talking about biden's inflation. i remember in the summer of 2022, foxbusiness was talking about how inflation will be a problem next year due to the trump lockdowns, regardless of who won the presidency. they were thinking trump was going to win. as soon as biden won, the narrative changed to inflation is all biden's fault.

inflation was due to the lockdowns and biden has spent four years dealing with it and he's got it under control. thank you. host: tom is in woodbridge, virginia and on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. this is tom, i call in pretty regularly. i want to remind everybody, in particular your democrat audience, that they lied to you. they lied to you about everything. when i say they, i mean the political elites in the country. they lied to you about russian collusion. that has proven to be a hoax. they lied to you about the hunter biden laptop. they unconstitutionally influenced free-speech -- host: who is they, tom? caller: the political elites

have basically -- when i say that, i may like the supreme elites within the democratic and republican party both. they are trying to control the narrative to essentially keep their own people, the people they choose in power. this is why they hate trump so much and have trumped up all these criminal charges against him because he's not controlled by the party. so, trump -- he's a republican, but he's really a conservative first. he's an american candidate. that is why you have latinos for trump, blacks for trump, law enforcement for trump because the american people are sick of this hyperbolic, political rhetoric that is ripping her country apart. host: that is all the time we have for calls right now but

coming up after the break, we will be joined by michelle deutsch meant of the university of california national center for free-speech and civic engagement. we will talk about her podcast and free-speech issues on campus and beyond. it is our spotlight on podcast segment and it is coming up next. ♪ >> american history tv, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. our american history tv series looks at historic congressional investigations that led to changes in policy and law. this week, 1993 and 1995, examining the deadly 1993 siege carried out by the federal government and other law enforcement agencies near waco, texas. texas a&m history professor malakai crawford talks about the

evolution of dismantling jim crow and racial segregation, including the brown v. education supreme court decision which declared public education segregation to be unconstitutional. peter baker on the evolution of the american presidency. he's observed the vice president cies. exploring the american story. watch american history tv every weekend and tch a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime that he spent.org -- c-span.org. ♪ >> sunday on q&a, the president emeritus of the university of maryland baltimore county and author of "the brazilian university" talks about the role of college president and

political involvement in higher education. >> people think is education is where they have expertise because we all graduated from high school and college. that is not true. there is something called expertise in this world of education. we need to ask questions and make suggestions, but never should people have the kind of influence that says you have to do what i tell you to do, no. >> freeman hrabowski, sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast on our free c-span now app. ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> this year, c-span celebrates 45 years of celebrant in congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your primary course for capitol hill. providing balanced, unfiltered

coverage of government. taking you to where the policies and debates are decided come all with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by michelle deutschman, executive director of the university of california's national center for r free-speech and civic engagement, and host of the podcast "speech matters." guest: thank you for having me. host: tell us a little bit about the center for free-speech and civic engagement. how did it start and why was this an important thing to get going? guest: let's go back to 2017, like a million years ago in some ways, pre-pandemic. that was the year when there was a lot of controversial speakers coming to campuses, in

particular berkeley. one of them was milo yianno polis. there was a lot of anxiety whether someone who had certain types of ideologies should be able to come to campus. of course, the answer is yes as dictated by the first amendment. there was unrest at berkeley. members of antifa came onto campus. there ended up being violence and property damage and cancellations. the national spotlight was back on berkeley and the uc system which has the legacy of the free-speech movement. then, the uc president decided it was time to invest additional energy and time and resources into a center. that is the national center for free-speech and civic engagement. the name is a mouthful. always looking for and anchored n acronym. the roots are in the uc

community and campuses but the word national is in the center name because we want to be part of that national conversation about how what's happening on campus is impacts what's happening in the greater society. host: how is the center funded? guest: we are funded by the uc system. we get small donations from individuals and are working on getting grants to do programming, but largely we are funded by the university. host: before we get to the podcast, i want to ask you about these campus protests that have been going on for several weeks across the country. there's a story in the washington post from this -- from last week about despite warnings of violence, ucla police did not step in for over three hours. that is part of the system year center is in. and that faculty raise alarms the days before the attack on pro-palestinian protesters. witnesses called 911 11 times

before police intervened. what, if anything, is the center's views on these campus protests so far? guest: i cannot really speak specifically to what happened to ucla. i am not embedded on that campus. what i do know is there's an investigation going on through the uc system. the chancellor will be speaking to congress this coming week. what i can say about the protest is obviously this is a very unique moment in history but it is important to remember that these issues about expression on campus, they are not new. these questions about what is protected, was not protected, how do public universities in particular safeguard expression, but also make sure not to allow the creation of a hostile education environment. this sort of push-pull, speech that is protected but many people may find offensive or

ugly or mean-spirited, and as long as those things do not cross the line to threats or incitement of violence, they will be protected. but that is another question of how community leaders respond to those, that type of expression without stopping it. that push-pull. i think we have to remember the environment we are in right now, which is an incredibly polarized society. pew talks about how this is the largest differences we have seen between republicans and democrats in many years. we have seen loss of faith in higher education generally. the public questioning the value of higher education. so, all of these things are sort of an important backdrop for these protests, which are happening across campuses and which are raising questions about what are appropriate ways to respond? how do we have appropriate

policies? how do we consistently enforce them? and this larger question of if and when you use law enforcement. i don't think that there's any one-size-fits-all, as you are seeing from the different kinds of responses we are seeing across the country. host: what kind of work does the center do? have you all been counseling administrators and students on issues related to these protests? guest: i would say our work has been happening all consistently throughout. my whole goal is education. our goal is that hopefully, we will help educate people about the basics about the first amendment. you might be surprised, i do these trainings all the time for staff, faculty, administrators, law enforcement for students. i never go in a room where everyone knows the answers to some basic questions about the first amendment. i think one of the key issues, and it is hard to talk about that right now because everyone

is so consumed by what's happening in this moment, is to understand that the foundation is really weak. that if people don't understand, for instance, that hateful speech is protected on a college campus, then how can you understand what's going to happen when you protest, or what you can expect? simultaneously, people don't understand that civil disobedience, which is deciding to break a law and being nonviolent means there will be consequences. that is part of it. without some of these basics. a lot of what the center does to our programming, our research, our podcast is to help people explore the issues. the other thing i would say about the center, and that is why i am so grateful to be on today's show, is really believe in nuance. this is like we are not doing soundbites, not doing snappy social media.

this is about really digging deep into these complex and layered issues. i think one of the challenges with these protests, there is this mentality of you are either with us or against us. i see our work at this moment, it is not so much we are counseling universities, but really helping people be in a position to think through what some of the consequences of their decisions will be. certainly, moving forward, i have been invited to do lots of talking about what we can do to help our communities better understand the first amendment and try to create spaces for dialogue so we don't get to this moment of crisis. host: let's talk about your podcast. what sorts of topics do you cover? guest: i think that is the great thing. it is trying to talk about what's timely. just this season, one of the things we talked about was restorative justice practices, not in criminal situations but

higher education. that was in january before the encampments. thinking about how we will start to think about healing and repair. talking about civic engagement in voting in college aged students. talking about the legislative assault on higher education. i would argue it is probably the greatest one since mccarthyism in terms of anti-dei, divisive concept legislation. we have talked about ai in higher education. we have talked about court cases that are happening at the supreme court. really one of the things we are trying to pick things that are of the moment and do a deeper dive. always with the lens though of what's happening on campuses and how we can extrapolate campus life to life at large.

host: you mentioned divisive concept legislation. maybe a new language for people. can you talk about what that is? guest: there are lots of different ways people refer to these bills. people might be familiar with the florida anti-woke act. it is state legislators deciding there are certain concepts or ideas. it might be that one race is better than another race. it might be just talk about issues like gender or gender identity or certain forms of history. the way we talk about race in america. basically, trying to censor what can be taught and how it can be taught. while it may be well intended, i am sure many would argue, the reality is that kind of impingement on the autonomy of the university really restricts the heart of what higher education is about, which is there is this academic freedom.

i think there is this idea, this narrative, and so much of it and how it is all about narrative and whose narrative will you listen to. one narrative is largely coming from red states is we are indoctrinating students. we are trying to make them think a certain way. i think the response from higher education and others like the center is no, this is about exploration of ideas. if you can explore different ideas and different perspectives, you will not be ready to be a member of our citizenry. what we are seeing is a lot of legislation being passed both about divisive concepts, but also about diversity, equity and inclusion. not just about that being taught, but about offices. in texas, s.b. 17 ended up in the closing of dei offices. we are seeing people losing their jobs. we've had some episodes about that. one of the things we try to do

in speech matters -- i do this work every day and sometimes i feel overwhelmed by the gravity and depth of the problems we are facing in higher ed. try to give our listeners really discrete pieces of advice from our guest about action items they can take so that they can be contributing to solving the problem, but really trying to break it down. host: how do you think about the line, if there is one, between free speech and hate speech, especially on college campuses? guest: that is such an important question and one that a lot of people understand -- misunderstand. hateful speech is protected by the first amendment. it is not even a legal concept. there's no legal definition of hate speech. i ask people why don't we have a definition of hate speech? the first amendment is about the government, precluding the

government from punishing somebody from what they are saying. the answer i give is there's no definition of hateful speech because it is very subjective. we have to remember we don't want to give the government the power to subjectively decide what words should be punished and what words should be elevated. i think the line is really ugly speech, if it does not cross the line to a threat or incitement and violence, obscenity, defamation. some of these very discrete categories of speech, it will be protected. i sometimes feel the harder question is not which speech is protected, rather the harder question is how do we respond when speech is protected that is really harmful, hurtful, demeaning and divisive? host: want to get to some calls in a bit. we also have a special line.

for democrats, the number is still (202) 748-8000. republicans on (202) 748-8001. independents on (202) 748-8002. if you are a college student or administrator, the special line for you is (202) 648-8003. there was quite a bit of reaction this week to nfl player harrison butker speaking at a commencement speech. i want to play a clip of that and then get your response. [video clip] >> for the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. you should be proud of all you have achieved to this point. i want to speak directly to you briefly because i think it is you, the women, who had the most diabolical lies told to you. how many of you are sitting here now and thinking about all the promotions and titles you will get in your career. some of you may go on to lead

successful careers in the world, but i would venture to guess the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. i can tell you my beautiful wife would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. i'm on this stage today and able to be the man i am because i have a wife who leans into her vocation. i'm beyond blessed with the many talents god has giving me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl i met in band class back in middle school became my wife and embraced one of the most important titles of all, homemaker. host: that speech elicited quite a bit of negative reaction and included this response from the nfl. nfl senior vicedent jonathan being said "harrison

personal capacity.ch in his his views are not those of the nfl as an organization. the nfl is steadfast in our commitment to inclusion which makes our lease stronger." i'm wondering if you can get your response to that speech and the backlash that it has engendered. guest: i had not been familiar with that speech. obviously, there are so many things going on. listen, he's entitled to his personal views. it is important to remember that the first amendment does not apply to the nfl so they can respond how they want or even if they wanted to have the rights to sanction him or condemn him. those are not my particular views as someone who is sitting here as a head of a center who also has kids. not my perspective and certainly not the message i would have had recommended for a graduating class of women.

i don't really have more to say about it. the first amendment is not implicated in this one. so, hopefully, the college will choose better in the future? host: let's get to some calls. richard is on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: i was going to talk about that kicker from kansas city. host: yes. caller: that is his opinion. not stay things that are fact. like the quarterback that got the dealing over the flag -- host: colin kaepernick. caller: i think trump should be able to prove it if he says that. this guy flying the flag upside down, the supreme court justice,

i guess that is his opinion. they should state his opinions and then flunkies speaking for him about that judge's dau ghter. let's see what happens. thank you. host: any follow-up to richard's comments? guest: i think it is interesting we mentioned kaepernick. that is an interesting example where people might be confused about the first amendment. everyone said his first amendment rights were violated when the nfl sanctioned him. it is important to remember the nfl as a private company so the first amendment does not apply. now, if that person had been on a college campus and had kneeled during something like that and there was a sanction, then that would be a different issue because one is the government, which is a public university, and one is a private company.

host: if you could actually get into a bit more detail about the difference between when protests are happening on a public university versus a private university campus. guest: thanks for asking that. like i said, the constitution applies to the government and that is where congress has been interpreted to mean any arm of the government. that can be your library, your post office. your community college, state, regional colleges. absolutely, because edition applies -- the constitution applies there. when it comes to private colleges, technically they are not bound the same way to the first amendment, but my experience is most often, these private colleges will abide by the norms and rules of the first amendment because it is really hard to say we will uphold the mission of higher education in terms of letting in all

these different ideas and debating and discussing if we will not allow those ideas in. really, i think the difference is that private universities can sanction speech more. they can have different kinds of rules, but my experience has been more often than not, they do not. though the last couple of weeks has sort of seen a free-for-all in terms of policies and changes the policy. host: jesse is in albuquerque, new mexico on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: good morning, michelle from california. i am glad we are having people from the west coast talking. i just wanted to ask you, do you think that -- did i get it clear that you don't think any hateful kind of language that does not include threats is constitutional? guest: threats are not constitutional, absolutely not.

but, language that does not reach the level of a threat is constitutionally protected. now, i want to be clear, just because something is protected does not mean that it is beneficial to the community. it does not mean it is valuable. if anything, i spent most of my career talk about what it is so important as individuals and institutions that they need to use their institutional voice to respond to really ugly speech. but, it is not punishable saying mean-spirited, hateful things about individuals or groups, again, as long as it does not reach the level of a legal threat. host: earl is in kissimmee, florida on our line for independents. caller: i want to preface my call by saying that brian's rule is as weak as his arguments for cameras in the court.

it is amazing how the conversation about the young football player, he also mentioned that congress is making a law that the government -- that you cannot say that jesus christ was murdered or killed by the jews. events the case -- if that is the case, that is the subject you should be dealing with. instead you are dealing with freedom of speech, lgb, or all this antisemitic. the main part of the conversation was that congress is making a law that you cannot say that jesus was murdered by the jewish nation at the time, and not actually the truth. congress cannot make a lot of that affect. he was at a catholic school and they do believe the jewish nation at the time was responsible for jesus' death. so, please deal with that subject for me. host: we have covered that

particular piece of legislation here on c-span. i encourage you to look back at some previous episodes for a discussion on that. michelle, if you would like to address that comment. guest: first of all, i am happy that someone referred to me as a young lady. no, i am actually not familiar with that piece of legislation. host: i will pause and give a little more explanation. in may, the house passed an antisemitism bill with broad bipartisan support amid the campus arrests. the antisemitism awareness act requires the education department to adopt the international holocaust remembrance alliance's definition of antisemitism. and the bill would mandate that the education department adopt that broad definition. the group defines antisemitism as a certain perception of jews which may be expressed as hatred

towards jews. the group adds rhetorical antisemitism includes things such as calling for the killing or harming of jews, or holding jews responsible for actions taken by israel. i do believe in the debate for that bill, it came up, several members expressed concern about whether or not this would cover language blaming jewish people for the death of jesus. guest: i am familiar with the e antisemitism act, but i did not get the connection to jesus' death. i think this is discretion about this piece of legislation. i think it highlights some of these really complex and layered issues about what these words mean and definitions and how it

is hard to have people come together to discuss things when people have very different definitions of what's happening. again, this goes back to this idea of foundation. i don't think that the goal of that act -- the high-level goal, although the things that are happening is to make sure that our campuses are safe for all students and inclusive and welcoming communities. whether or not this passes, i think that is the high-level goal. host: a question received via xt from irwin in medicine. would it help if colleges set up designated free-speech/protest areas away from interfering with classes, studies and athletics, etc.? guest: thanks for that question. one of the concerns that the first amendment has is about the ability for messages to be heard. as i had shared before, the way

it works is that universities are not allowed -- let's say you have your quad where people can come and rally and protest and hand out flyers. once you open that up, public universities cannot make decisions based on the content of the speech. you cannot say we are opening up the quad to anyone who wants to talk about immigration, the middle east, was happening with russia and ukraine, but nobody can talk about abortion. that is going to be unconstitutional. once you open things up, the only thing universities can do or what are called time, place and manner restrictions. you can only use amplified sounds between 12:00 and 1:00 in the quad. the idea being we don't want to disrupt the goings-on of the university. the issue and one of the things about time, place and manner restrictions are you have to make sure the message can be heard.

one of the things that has happened in past when university have tried to make free-speech zones or designated areas and put them really far away is even though it is well-intentioned, if the idea of protesting or sharing your political views is so that the community can hear it and potentially respond and learn from you, and you are way off in a small gazebo on the edge of campus, probably a court will say that is not constitutional because what it seems like as you are putting the message so far away from the audience that it is intended to hear. in general, free-speech zones and designated areas that are really removed from things have not fared very well even though i understand the instinct. i do think there are ways to try to manage the protests with time, place and manner restrictions in terms of when

and how people are allowed to protest. i think one of the challenges we are seeing now is there are lots of universities that have policies on the books but perhaps they didn't enforce those policies before things started getting hot after october 7. one of the problems is if you have policies on the books that you have not used, and that all of a sudden you start to use them, again not in a nefarious way but because things are getting more hot and sensitive, you're now enforcing the rules because of the message of the protesters. so, it becomes very difficult. again, when we pull back from this moment, it will be important for universities to remember the need to be familiar with the policy and need to be enforcing them consistently so when we are in a moment like this, there is not any question about why the policy is being

enforced. it is a matter of this is what we've done before and will do in the future. host: lisa is in washington, d.c. caller: i just wanted to comment. i heard a little bit about the speech at the college, the football player. i didn't find it offensive at all. i'm also a mother and a working mother. generation of working mothers. i was not offended because having my children has been the highlight of my life and in my career. i didn't see anything wrong with what he said. i was disheartened that a lot of people were offended by it. thank you. guest: thanks for sharing that. having my kids has also been a highlight and i think that is the beauty of different people that can hear the same words and interpret them differently, and i appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

host: for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. for college students and administrators, (202) 748-8003. let's hear from chuck from gadsden, alabama. caller: over the last 20 something years, i have noticed that colleges are probably the worst offenders for denied free-speech. i think you all run on the model and most colleges that if there's a group of people that don't want somebody to speak, they can control what the colleges do. i think that is very sad. if a conservative wants to speak on a college, nine times out of 10, there will be a group of people that want to protest that and the college caves.

new kind of work on mob rule stuff. how can you explain that? guest: it sounds to me what you are talking about is sort of external pressures, which we are seeing a lot of, especially in this moment. whether it is donors or alumna or even congressional representatives with these hearings. i think you are right. i think the world would look inward to its internal stakeholders to make the decisions that it makes. unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world so i agree. again, as i was talking before with kimberly, this is one of those differences where private universities do have some more leeway to potentially say we don't think that that speaker or event is in keeping with our mission and maybe we will cave. in a public university

situation, if you were to cave because of the nature of the message, then you open yourself up to a lawsuit and time and time again, we have seen that is a loser. for the university. i agree but i think if you are going to have a speaker on campus, you have to be prepared for protesters and for counter protesters. one of the things our center doesn't have administrators think through what are different ways people can express disagreement with a speaker or idea coming to campus other than protest. that is a very important and protected way to do that but i think there are other ways to do it. you can use petitions, you can use letters, op-eds. one of the things we counsel is for people to do events at the same time as the speaker coming that you might not agree with. go do an event at the same time in a different location that

focuses on a different idea or uplifts values that you feel like maybe the speaker coming to campus is not uplifting. that think it is really important to remind people that shouting speakers down is not covered by the first amendment. that is antithetical. we are seeing that happen more and more frequently. where you up including not only the speaker from talking, but precluding the audience members who would like to hear the message from being heard. host: a little bit of time left but a bunch more callers. let's hear from william in cleveland. caller: good morning. first of all, i don't know how being a homemaker is a derogatory term, as in something that is not good. i don't understand. at a christian college, where they are very traditional

people, this is a very normal kind of speech that's not meant to harm anyone. myself, i believe the most important jobs we have as human beings are being parents if you choose to have children. my wife -- a homemaker becomes a wife, and mother, a caregiver. it is the highest stature in the family -- host: william, did you have a question about the free-speech issues around this? caller: we were talking about the speech that the gentleman gave at the college. host: it came up but in the context of us discussing free speech on college campuses. caller: am i on the air or no? host: you are, i just wanted to see if you had a question. caller: why would she say

they should have chosen someone outside aggression college, about how much he loves his wife and hu contributions to the familer -- her contributions to the family of the most important thing. guest: i don't think i realized it was a religion college. if that speaker upholds those values -- it is not really an issue for me or my center. religious colleges get to decide who they want their speakers to be and how people in the community and outside the community respond. it was not a message that resonated with me personally but that part is not important. host: renee is in washington on our line for independents. caller: i had a question. i live here in and i frequently drive past the university of washington where there has been a lot of protests and a lot of encampments.

one of the things i run into as someone that is jewish, at a lot of these protests, you see all of these speeches and slogans and rhetoric that many jewish americans have pointed at and said, hey, this is hate speech. yet, many of things have not been addressed or have not been called out by the university as being hate speech and being stopped. all of these jewish americans are feeling unsafe on campus. i am not sure how that has anything do with our right to free speech and feeling safe on campus and in our cities. host: thank you. guest: this is such an important question and speaks to one of the greatest challenges that universities face. wheat is really coming to the fore right now with these protests and in campus. the rhetoric they are using, the

slogans they are using are creating an environment that is not just uncomfortable, but potentially unsafe or hostile for jewish identified students. this is that push-pull. on the one hand, we have the first amendment which protects the right of the protesters to hold those signs and chant those slogans. on the other hand, there is something called title vi which is part of the civil rights act which basically prohibits discrimination based on ethnicity, national origin or race. the department of education office of civil rights has opened up over 50 investigations about allegations of anti-semitism and cases of islamophobia on campus is based on what you are saying. i think we are going to see how this plays out in real time as we see what kinds of things the

office of civil rights is going to say creates a hostile environment. i think you make a great point, which is to be thinking about and asking questions about what response ability does the leadership of universities have to speak out? not necessarily about what's happening geopolitically, not about necessarily what should happen in the middle east, but about making sure that everybody in their community understands that anti-semitism, islamophobia, any kind of hateful ideology does not have a place in that they will respond to it and they will condemn it and they will take actions to make sure those communities feel not only included, but also safe. i think there are different ways universities can do that. host: cory is on our line for independents. caller: thank you. i'm just wondering what she thinks about the incredibly small cohort of people that are

involved in these demonstrations. the 18 to 25-year-olds plus the liberal arts professors. i'm wondering what you thought about that. i'm just wondering why the student protests have not filtered down into the secondary schools of our nation. i will listen off the air. thank you. guest: thanks. i think you raise an important point which is that sometimes we can get so involved with the focus on what's happening on very small and select number of colleges that we can forget in most colleges around the country, students are going to class, they are working, they are providing for themselves and their families. nothing entire institution of higher education is rife with protests.

i think we can raise some good questions about why there is such intense scrutiny on what's happening at these very select schools and a very small number of them. now that i started i forget the second part of the question. kimberly? host: the secondary schools. guest: right. the protests not quite happening in the same way. i think there are other issues happening. i think about two weeks ago, there was a congressional hearing where they had a number of representatives from secondary schools talking about similar issues about anti-semitism and islamophobia. i think what's happening in k-12, not so much the protests, but a lot of angst about book banning and other things. that is really taking place at k12. i would urge everybody, if you have not been to a local school board meeting wherever you are, that suggest you do that just to have an idea of what happening

because so anything -- politics is very local. i think things happening at k-12 have more to do about books and curriculum. host: eric in duluth, minnesota on our line for democrats. caller: i think the issue at hand is the echo chamber nature of the two principal ideologies and how the populations of those ideologies are not cross talking at all. those who watch fox would never have listened to a january 6 committee, would never have watched which happening on the trump trials, and become funneled into an ideology that is becoming increasingly. their side the same is happening on the left but until we get rid of these echo chambers and have a uniform databank that everyone is compelled to listen to, we

will never come to an agreement. secondly, i think the other issue brought to hand is the importance of the separation of church and state. all one has to do is review the history of israel and the arab states to see they've never gotten along, and it has led to bloodied conflict over and over again. in our country, there is a similar far-right groups which is brewing hatred and using violence as a means to achieve their objectives. it has not ever worked out. host: we are just about out of time. did you want to add any thoughts to what eric was saying or any closing thoughts? guest: thanks, eric, for referencing the echo chamber. there has been a lot of similarities to the protests in the 1960's, but now we have social media and other ways to

share our messages and to make sure we only hear from people we agree with. disinformation and misinformation is something to focus on. i want to thank you for having me and featuring the center and say i appreciate the thoughtful questions. there's a lot to learn and i hope people will jump onto our website or subscribe to "speech matters" to learn more and think about different things and different perspectives. host: thank you, michelle deutschman, executive director of the university of california national center for free-speech and civic engagement and host of the podcast "speech matters." thank you to all of the callers and people of social media. we are done for today but please tune in tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern for another edition of "washington journal." have a great day. ♪