>> we will look to the ntsb and some of their recommendations and we will in view -- review the entire process. >> thank you, everyone. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse through our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor and accessories. there's something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit t c-spanshop.org. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these

television companies and more, including buckeye broadband. ♪ buckeyeg withgiving >> welcome back to washington journalt johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health. natalie, welcome. guest: thanks for having me. host: how bad of a problem is lead exposure in the united states? guest: yeah. this is, you know, a big problem many years ago and so i would say that as a society we'veone a lot to get lead out of our population. we took it out of gasoline, we took it out of paint. one of the things that we have not dealt with yet is taking king water. because it actually means digging up a lot of old pipes.

host: because it's too expensive? guest: it's too expensive, it's underground, we don't know where they are. we're living with a legacy of lead pipes under our streets. host: so how -- what are the actualng lead in your drinking water? guest: yeah. well, if you think about it just as a low-dose chronic exposure over time. that in raood. but we're concerned about -- it's a neuro toxin so we're concerned about development of our children, we're also concerned abour t oude how we're seeing lead maybe be linked to dementia and such. we're concerned now. it's not a problem for the whole population but we're concerned about the vulnerable populations, meaning kids living in urban cities, right, where a lot of these lead lines were laid in the early 1900's. host: speaking of children, this is an article from "the washington post" about the flint water crisis. it says how the flint water crisis sets schoolchildren back. now, that was remind us about what happened and what do we know now that we've got 10 years to look at the actual impacts? guest: yeah. so this hits home because i had

a baby right at that same time and so this is about 10 years ago. we saw that lead levels in kids were spiking. and then we saw also that there was elevated lead in the drinking water so we brought those two together to say that a large number of childre so a lot has been done since then but now those kids are in elementally school and what we're seeing in flint is that maybe a doubling of the children that need special education right? so this is linked to adhd, behavioral issues, and so kids, not being able to sit in their chairs and learn and needing special programs that schools need to be very well resourced for in order to take care of. host: we'll take your calls about lead in the drinking water as well as forever chemicals. if you have a question for our guest, natalie exum, you can call us. our lines are regional. so it is (202) 748-8000 here in the eastern or central time zone. mountain or pacific, (202) 748-8001.

last year the biden administration announced the proposal to replace all lead water service lines in the u.s. within 10 years. we started the conversation by you telling us re, it's extremely expensive. they're underground. how possible is this get tm all switched out in 10 years? guest: so, money needs to be allocated to be able to do this as well. the -- host: how much? guest: the bipartisan infrastructure law put $15 billion in for lead pipe finding and replacing. so that is a shot in the arm to get this started. but by no means is it going to be ae to fund all of the lead pipe replacements for the 9.2 million pipes that the e.p.a. is estimating is underground. host: when you said earlier, we're not quite sure where they are, so how do we know that we're, like our drinking water isn't coming out of lead pipes? can do after this show is go and look for their lead service lines. it's most likely coming from

your -- in your basement. and yo scratch test where you scratch the pipe and look to see if it's lead or copper or galvanized or p.v.c. host: if it is not lead, then you're good? guest: then we're good. there are other sources that could be in your home, but the s contributing the most lead into your drinking water. host: what do we do if we find out it is lead? guest: first, don't panic because there are ways you can re yduce i wake up is i always flush my pipes. i live in an old home. because whatever water sits overnight in pipes, there's even lead inned soar use sodder use until 1986. host: how? guest: turn on the cold water i know it's wasteful but you can water your plants with the water. you can also use filters that can be -- that say that they are -- will treat lead. so even something that you can go to the store and buy. host: the idea of water getting into -- lead getting into the drinking water, how does that actually happen?

is it an old pipe? are new lead pipes better? it -- you mentioned cold water. is it hot water that will increase the amount of lead? guest: yeah, you're onto it. so, it's hot water. it's the chemistry of the water. so the p.h. and the corrosivity of the water. if the water is flowing -- it flushing through your pipes also just stagnant water and water sitting in lead pipes, especially in that overnighttime we're most concerned about it getting into the water and that hot water will kind of induce the lead to be more likely to come out of the pipes. so that's why preparing baby formula, always use cold water. host: you said this, the $15 billion was already allocated. it's in the bipartisan infrastructure law. how easily can that be reversed with the possibility of a new administ could all that work stop? guest: so, those moneys have gone down to local levels by now.

the federal money goes to the state revolving funds which goes -- the state decides which water utilities get those funds. those funds have been allocated so as far as i know, that money can't be taken back with a change of administration. host: so skwr*eups jim has a question for you on x. he says, if we've had lead pipese alive? and capable of somewhat rational thought? guest: that is a great point. but, you know, we that zero -- that no amount of lead in our blood is good for us. the c.d.c. over time has been moving the limit down and down furt 3.5. when i was growing up the average population lead level was 15. so as a population, we've gotten lead o of our blood progressively. it really is related to i.q.'s, right? so essentially our children are sphrarter than us -- smarter than've been exposed to less lead than we were when we were children. host: is there a blood test, if you're concerned, you or your kids can get tested? guest: yeah. so i have a 1-year-old. i just brought her in for her blood lead test.

c.c. recommends that ages 1 and 2 we test our children for lead. that's our most vulnerable population. when lead in our blood can get into our brains most easily. there's no reason for anyone to get their blood lead -- you're not going to be -- there's no reason to go and do that but i would say if you're concerned,ctwe're going to take calls but before i do, i want to ask you about pfas. there was another action by the e.p.a. that proposed that nine pfas, these are call forever chemical, be considered hazardous substances. first, start by explaining what they are w forever. guest: so they're called forever chemicals because these compounds have these carbon we have used them for decades in testify hropb, -- teflon, gortex, anything that's stain repellent, grease repellent, has

these we've used them for a long time. they're now in our drinking water systems, our ground water our surface water. they're everywhere. hazardous chemicals is now essentially asking the polluters to pay because we as a society right now are trying to get them out of ourlities to do their work. our water utilities. there are new regulations going in place that's going to reduce the amount of these chemicals in our drinking water. that's extremely expensive to do. and the taxpayer shouldn't be the one paying for all of this contamination. host: we've got a question for iulurification are responsibilities that should not have to be paid for to pay for it. guest: somebody has to pay. we're talking about chemicals especially right now, somebody has to pay for this. it is not going to be cheap. and the e.p.a.'s action gives them a little more leverage to be able to say, these hazardous chemicals that areplant or that a certain

company put in the ground when they were doing their processing that the responsibility could now be put on the company or the industry rather than on the taxpayer. host: the companies, you could say that that does trickle down to the consumer. guest: true. though not every company has done this, right? so if -- a lot of process has been made over t by using these chemicals. host: judeish in virginia -- judith in virginia. caller: thanks for taking my call.r chemist for d.p.u., department of public utilities for the city of richmond. we started a lead and copper project back in the 1980's. and then the 1990's. we are coordinating with the state of virginia and also the e.p.a. on our tests and our analysis. i started off as a water quality

techniciant= where i went into homes and tested for lead and copper. also, after i became a senioremll doing the same process. we check and we analyze. we check and we analyze. and we've been doing this for a number of years and we are still doing this. because i contacted my boss and he indicated to me that we are still with that process. front mind with this. welines with this. we are also coordinating with the individuals that are working in the city underground. they have replaced pipes. we also have a process to contact people if it came up positive that they had lead and copper in their lead pipes. so we have been in this process

for a very long time. gov. gianforte: -- a public health hero for all the work you've been doing for decades. i think what was done in the 80's and 90's and what's continuing today set the stage for the program we are trying to supercharge in other cities that may not have had those programs in place. thank you for doing that. xt contacts for years. this goes way b guest: absolutely right. these chemicals are everywhere in our environment, food can be another how they get into our bodies so there are many courses for these chemicals. 97%as a population we are -- it's hard to say which sources the most dangerous source but right now we are just kind of getting

a handle on how to reduce these levels across the sources. host: it is in makeup, dental floss, is there something the normal member of the public and do to reduce exposure or to know which products have been in it or don't, or is it a losing battle? >> you can be smart about it. eating a lot of take-out food means there's a lot of packaging and a lot of packaging has it because they are grease resistance. a pizza box and the play are of paper. but i think you can begin to be a smart consumer and say maybe i do not want to use as much take-out. host: chicago, illinois, good

morning. caller: i've been studying what's been going on around the country with fracking like for instance the public harold recently had a piece i turned blue, workers shareeating fracking wastewater. i understand the fracking wastewater is going into our water supplies and it's also going into public lands and i was wondering if you had anything to say about fracking wastewater? thank you. guest: that is a great point. one of the ways the epa could go after the industry with this new hazardous chemicals is through injection wells. a lot of what you're talking about with fracking wastewater is the water is injected deep down into the ground and it often gets into groundwater. that's a concern because the only way that will be taken out is through being treated, so

having these be classified as hazardous chemicals would then allow chemicals in the ground to have to clean it up. host: been replaced. if so about what percentage and how much has been spent? guest: as of today as i was reading there were about 30,000 lead service lines that were replaced. there's only about 30 left. ther ruling that a lot of repairs and sidewalks have not been repaired. so that is still left to be done at it's meaningful to say almost all of them have been replaced at this point. how much money has been spent on that i am not very clear but it was a lot. it's hundreds of millions of dollars that have gone into just replacing that. >> can you talk about how long we knew these forever chemicals were detrimental to health.

who found out about it, why this has not been an issue earlier guest: in the 40's the chemical industry develop these compounds and saw what were and how they were able to prevent your couch from getting wine stains on them. these chemicals have been used for many ways and evolved over time. so we have known for a long time and the chemical industry new that they were causing problems. host: how did they know? guest: through smaller studies done on animals and even you know when your workers are getting sick over time when they're exposed to high levels of these chemicals. so you know there is extreme danger but what was said over time in the 80's and 90's is it's not getting released, this is not going to affect the population. it's doing all these things for

humanity this making lives more convenient. it's not to get out to the environment. over time those wishes, of promises get broken and those chemicals get released. host: have the chemical companies the new these were a problem released him into the air, have they been held accountable, will they be held accountable? host: many -- guest: many utilities are bringing legislation to these companies because of the huge price tag they will need to be paying at the treatment plant level. they are trying but again this is not a one and done thing like it is. we will need continual operational and maintenance of because you have to redo your filters, it is very expensive to do. host:ádare you there? caller: can you hear me ok? host: yes, go ahead.

caller: our milk cartons considered a forever chemical? our government needs to put a deposit on milk and fruit, all the polyethylene jugs it's really easy to clean them if they put the label on the top rather than on the side of the carton it would be 100% recyclable. thank you. guest: this is a great point. we talk about how we've become a plastic society and we need to begin to reduce our use of , plastics are closely linked to contamination. host: tim in raleigh, north carolina, good morning. caller: thank you for a wonderful show and a wonderful guest. i am an architect and i just finished renovating an elementary school in north

carolina. we had to use a reverse osmosis filter under the new water bottle drinking fountain fillers and my question is isn't water quality the same problem lore bridges and with the other caller was mentioning. where we have a value basic human needs like clean water. i'm wondering what can we do when we have this capitalist system that requires cheap labor and cheap material to return investments for shareholders while our commonwealth of health suffers. what can we do to change that? one that i say as a public health person, one of the equalizing forces in our society is w tap and

all of us can be assured from our safe drinking water act we are taking a clean sip of water. continuing to invest in those public systems is one of the most important things we can do because it is showing value that we valif we are not going to abandon the public system because it's for everyone. >> related to that, steveas will never care well-being. is it a bigger problem important areas? guest: often times are criminal justice communicating -- are located to areas producing these materials so there is runoff or impact around the communities at these plants. this is not just a low income issue because of the way it's gotten into our drinking water and often times you are more at risk if you buy a new carpet. if you can your home often these chemicals are in

carpets or couches or other things so it's one of these issues that is kind of affecting all levels of the population. hoe water that would bind with lead? guest: now we good question but the way utilities manage lead in the drinking water is by adding anti-corrosion agents. you can add certain chemicals into the drinking water to ensure it doesn't get in. but that leadpipe is actually replaced, the risk of it getting it is always there. all that lead came out of the pipes in flint becse of the corrosive plant river water that was switched over for a cost-saving measure. caller: good morning. >> go right ahead. caller: iave a comment about lead.

i'm 88 years old. i was raised in the allegheny mountains of west virginia. i was a young kid and my father 90% of our meat was from wild game but my father shot with a shotgun. with deer and squirrels and fed us. they were lead bullets we were using. i blame led a lot of ability -- inability and a lot of problems and i was younger. i blame that on the lead in our meat that we ate. i don't know what we can do about that today but that was one of thes. a lot of meat shot by led and contaminated the food.

guest: this is a great point because there is something you can do today if you are a hunter and use -- you can use copper plated bullets. venison is a very good source of meat and a very sustainable source and many people in the united states eat it. i appreciate the caller's comments because this is one of those waysvulnerable to lead getting into our bodies and we have to think about every single source of thank you for that comment. host: louis in new jersey, good morning. caller: i think our water is bad and i will give you the reasons why. all the animals died of cancer here, we have had three women just on my that have cancer, the young lady next door is get a pass away within the next few months. that's all it got to say.

guest: if you have about your community's water system you should be reaching out to your councilmembers and representatives, to people who are there who are voted inthat's what i would give to that caller. >> my family and friends what type of filters do you recommend for home usage? guest: i never make recommendations because if you don't have service lines and you're sure you tested your water and there is no lead or issues you can turn on the tap. some places are not affected byyou could actually call your water utility and ask if they have tested for perform eight chemicals and they may say we

have very low levels and there is no concern here. there is information you can get to assure you that you don't necessarily need a filter. host: this is a usa today article drink water from systems reporting to the epa. it has an interactive map on that that you can take a look at. brian is in pennsylvania. >> i was interested in the flint case and i went online and looked up washington dc had a much bigger lead problem probably five or six years before flint, does the guest know anything about that? host: how was the water in d.c.. >> in the late 90's into thousands it was about 15 years before flint the same issue

happened where the corrosion of the drinking water had led out of the pipes and theels were higher than in flint michigan. it just did not get the news that flint michigan dock. what thatof its leadpipe's. washington d.c. and the map for the lead lines is very well documented and its many years ahead of other cities in knowing where the lead service lines are and getting them replaced. that's what we are trying to bring every city up to to say let's find them and replace them. host: is next in laramie, wyoming. caller: good morning, i've been drinking distilledat w years, what can be said for against using water distilled or otherwise purified or filtered at home and what about buying bottled water

from the supermarket? guest: sure. so distilled water is highly purified but often there certain minerals in water that are good for us so you don't want to necessarily you don't want to miss early drink highly purified water because some of those are good. bottled water to me is a good option if you are traveling or not your tap for certain reasons. ultimately bottled water is not regulated the same way public drinking water is regulated. as a public health scientist i prefer tap water because i know it's being checked all the time for lots of different contaminants wears bottled water you are depending on the company's who either purified it and we did a study at johns hopkins university that showe certain bottled water companies have higher levels than others. host: you also have the plastic for bottles of water. guest: we want to move away from

plastics. host:contoked a water supply, trench a new pipe and abandon the lead pipes so they do not have to look for it? guest: there's a lot of digging involved in that solution as well and what we aryre tdo is avoid doing that digging at all. the problem is records. often, utilities to first make may try to look for the files those records only go back so long and these lead lines were late in the 20's. what's the best way to find them? everybody going down look to see if they have them. they may have gotten their lead line replaced in the 80's and they didn't know about that. you may still have led. >> danger of the plastic leaking particles in the drinking water? es is. we do not know a lot about of

rom aermaned eendors p the bipartisan no labels organization. >> c-span has a number nonfiction levers. listen to influential interviewers on the afterwords podcast, and on q&a, hear wide-ranging conversations with nonfiction offers and others who are making things happen. it regularly features fascinatinorde variety of topics. the about books podcast takes you behind-the-scenes with insider interviews, industry updates and bestseller list. find all of our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now app. and on her website c-span.org/ podcasts. clicyored view of government. we are funded by these

television companies and more. including comcast. >> comcast is partnering one -- with 1002 media centers so low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> sders giving you a front row seat to democracy. (7

♪