host: we are joined by francois pierre-louis from queens college from the city university of new york. he serves as a political science professor and studies the topic of haiti, pti as it's undergoing much turmoil these days. good morning and thank you for giving us your time. guest: you are welcome. host: when yous going on in haiti how would you say we get here -- we got here? guest: it is a long history. we shouldrt in the beginning of 2016 when -- left office. not having elections the country went into a chaotic situation. the provisional president had

elections. that wasopposition and the mains of the opposition. e large purchase of patient of electors. and the parliamentary elections. by the time of 2021, the country was running a without■ a legitimate government to administer things. in 2021, the united states supported the installation of the interim prime and us are. --he was supposed to hold elections within a short period but it's been three years and he has not held any elections. the gangs began to's capital of. they begin that effective rulers

of haiti. a lot of crimes have been committed, guns coming in. the officials are basically notherefore you end up in a very chaotic and nonfunctioning state in haiti. /w host: the united nations tells us 362,000 people are internally displaced within the country. 5.5 million needing humanitarian assistance. we talked about the gang issues in 2023. 5300 incidents, including 1200 kidnappings. tell us about the gangs. tell us about ke the gangs orige security guards, a protective force for many business in haiti. they protected their businesses. this is how they squashed any kind of opposition from the

population, from members of the civil society who wanted to have a better society in haiti. the gangs also came in and federated by the was government hoping that would control them. instead of controlling them, they went afters since no one could touch them anymore. between the gangs territory and the drug trafficking, more drugs are coming into haiti. many guns were coming directly from the united states. there was a lot of protests by the u.n., giving out reports and asking for the u.s. to take care of the gun trafficking in haiti. this did not happen.

eventually, because they were supported by politicians, they had the money to functiothey usd extortion to get money. no one has control over them anymore. that is how they ended up controlling the capital and the judicial system. it is veryyou end up having thes controlling the capital. host: there is a man at the center of that that is quoted often. he goes by the nickname barbecue. who is he? guest: barbecue was a police officer. he was closely allied with michelle martini. qth in.

barbecue was made by members of the government as a way to make sure he could keep the population in check. he controls alerts for the slu . many of the members in the gangs wereic people closely aligned with the police. the support he was getting where the official members of the government. it is not just one that came out of the slums. these were police officers working of behalf the martelly administration. they empoweredlu them to become the gang leader he is today. host: the discussion will continue with our guest francois pierre-louis.

if you have questions about what's going on in haiti and the role of the united states, (202) 748-8000. for those of you who are democrats (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you want to text us your questions or comments, do that at (202) 748-8003. it wast the secretary of state antony blinken spoke with reporters last week about the situation that was going on in haiti. the u.s. efforts to stabilize them. i want to play what he had to say and what that means for the u.s. going forward. [video] >> as you know, this has been a long unfolding story. the heart of the story is the suffering of the haitian people have a want to see that brought to an end.

that requires a few ■áth. it requires a more stable political system so that the country can and function democratically. for that we need to see a transition to we need assistance, humanitarian assistance, development assistance so the economy can gebuup and people can have opportunity. fundamentally, we need to see security. gets hard to do the first two things in an environment that is redominantly insecure. right now in haiti you have profound insecurity that is being driven largely gangs who e capital city, critical for structure, etc. we have been working on all these fronts. as you know, the united nations endorsed months ago a multinational security support missiono help the haitian

police regain control of security. as we are putting that together and can you stepped up to say it would lead to kenya stepped up to say it would lead to the mission, we are contribute resources. we have beenv with the caribbean countries and other interested countries to help the haitians get back on better political path. host: that is the desire of the united states. what is the reality as the days forward fo the reality is that e 2021 a the leaders into civil siting members -- and the civil society members have been a diafirst, hwa a governmeo

the country can be part of a legitimate state that can fu, ariel henry was doing nothing to curb gang violence or bring them to justice. it is unfortunate that haiti has gotten to that point. no matter what they are told about the situjion in unfortunately this has led to the current situation. it is up to society to choose other leaders that are more democratic in haiti and supported by the civil society population. they will force ariel henry to holdlections. there would have been other leaders in the situation.

unfortunately, it has gotten so bad now that the country has been shut down. even the u.s. has evacuated its personnel in haiti. all of these things could have been prevented if the u.s. had not supported ariel henry. university of new york doing us for this discussion. let's hear from sean and california, democrats line. you are on with our guest. caller: good morng. how is everybody? i have a comment and a question. my comment is, i have been watching hai f years now. i remember the young man barbecue when he was a citizen and his mother owned a and haiti was trying to feed their local community after a lot of the hurricanes they had. i want to break it to a

question. what happened to anyone haiti --'s president being assassinated? why is it that haiti was not at the table recently with all these other countries haiti? how is it we can bring kenya who is having their own issues? it reminds me of the vietnam war. why is it there is no haitian peopleth community that are at that table? i do not believe anything this man is sitting up here saying. e people gangs and thugs and criminals in so many words when i am seeing nothing but gangs and thugs and criminals that are causing this problem in haiti. when they are having hurricanes, no one is helpinghe sean from c.

we will let our guest respond. ng its own voice into resolving its problem and the degree to which it is listened to? guest: that's a good question. they have been asking for it since the beginning. let haitians decide their own fate. the proble haitians have with the u.s. is the u.s. put its big thumb on the scale in deciding the fate ofaitians. they have been doing this for a long time. the results have been terrible. they brought in other countries to figure out the future of haiti. they kept supporting the same leaders in haiti that have shown terrible results over and over for example, after the elections

lint she went personally to haiti to ask the president to choose michel martelly as president instead of the candidate officially declared the winner. his life was threatened and they would put sanctions on haiti in candidate. unless th r this is how much effort the u.s. has been doing in terms of pressuring haitian want so they can put in their own leaders. host: chrispendent line, washington, d.c. caller: hi. i am calling because we know the history ofwe know why they haven

treated. they were a black country that in the formation revolted against the slave trade. there is a big history there. i believe they were treated like a stepchild. then hung out to d.we have thish other countries trying to put leaders in plaetc. i get that. what is the solution? if you don't want outside interference, which i agree with, however internally you are dealing with major corruption. major poverty. when you say candlelitnside, i totally agree. what does that look like? how does that work? what is the solution? it is really sad. haiti deserves better. host: that is christine and washington, d.c. guest:; thank you for the

question and comments. first, haitians are not saying weon't want outside help. what they are saying is it is under conditions we want to set up. they are tli us what to do. just hava alogue with us. ask us what we want. secondly, given the freedom to the past two elections that took place in haiti, the u.s. and basically the u.n. supported those candidates. they managed to keep them in power. "martelly in 2011 and 2016 he was supported by the state department and the u.s. ambassador.

they did not hold interim elections for parliament and minas apologies. -- municipalities. when he was assassinated, the state department did not ask the viups and other citizens and organizations in haiti how a we have apartments or. minister. the state department supported ariel henry despite the opposition andthis is not the wd do it. you should have a conversation with us. the idea of treating haitians as en and knowing what is best for them has been a long history of the u.s. in haiti. this is what has created thissi. 1991, the haitian people -- within six months it was a

coup suppoedes. it took almost three years for him to come back in 1994. when he came back in 1994, the u.s. -- jesse helms was the chairman of the senate ford affairs committee. he decided to forgo help to haiti. there is definitely a history of punishing haiti or making haiti look bad in terms of u.s. foreign policy. it's not that haitians don't like americans. haitians want the support of t international community. when you treat them as children and you are deciding for them, anybody would not accept that. host: the current headlines out

of haiti say they are vigilantes involved in battling the gangs that are there currently. how does that complicate the situation? guest: it's very complicated. we are going into a civil war. the vigilantes in the gangs. the gangs arethey have heavy we. the vigilantes with maches we have a situation where there are civilians, children, people that are sick, elderly that are victimized in the situation. many hospitals have been closed in haiti.mb■m there are no flights out of haiti. the food shortage is getting worse and worse. the dominican republic has closed its borders with haiti.

this puts haiti in a situation of trying population. why is the international community asking that way -- acting that way? why haven't they been more forceful in the transition and setting up another government? ons the haitians are asking and why they're not trusting the international community. every time: francois pierre-loum city university of new york to any guess from this -- for thisonjohn on the republica. caller: thank you for taking my call. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller:don't understand though, my question is why can't the united states send some troops over least took well -- to quell the forces to

give security to the country so at least the haitian people can take it from there? all we need is security and ■]úepeace and then maybe the wet can work itself out so people can put their heads together and move forward from there. as long as the gangs keep going nonstop the■ count will still be what it is right now. they need to quell the gangs first. that is what i like to say. host: john in massauset, thank you. mr. pierre-louis? guest: i agree. the u.s. government and the international community, they have the means to control the gangs. there is no will on the part of the international community to do that.

the reason i'm saying there is no will is the u.s. knows through its intelligence who the gang leaders are, who contcomine to control the situation. so far they have not done that. we have been working with members of congress, meeting with the state, meeting with civil society groups and asking them for actions against the gangs. the gangs were not as powerful as they are now. if they had done that we would not be in the situation. ■j shut down the airports and shut down the country they could have done something different forcing the haitian government to

resign,minister, the head of the supreme court as interim president, and then you will have a national -- international community and seek support and not shut down the country. host: ed, good morning. you are on. caller: thank you for taking my call. like you to remind the viewers the role that haiti played in saving america from napoleon bonaparte. pretty much a love this country to go from east coast to west coast becausearte had to sell the louisiana territory which crossed over the mississippi and go west to thomas jefferson to recoup the money lost from getting hisutt kicked by the leaders of haiti. i would like to address several

bam bam. they call them morally repugnant elitesho aco miami. they are eating popcorn and looking through microscopes to see the c -- carnage because they are financing the gangs. they are behind this divide and conquer because they are upset the people did not want this guy henry. bigio bought i car from epstein and he has diplomatic immunity from israel. they came in to take over because there is gold, copper, even diamonds. offshore there is oil. they are there to take, like most of the people today are doing. they are takinnug the wealth of haiti and having the haitians who were standing up and he will

never let go, they will never give up their land to people coming in with diplomatic immunity all around the world. host: ed we, will let our guest respond to what you said. guest: thank you. you said a lot of things. one thing i would like to say is haiti has been contributing to the u.s. since the beginning. the slaves who fought for the independence got their training american revolution. haitians have been supporting the u.s. the u.s. has not been able to support haiti that way. we know that jefferson explicitly said the u.s. should never established if a medical relations with haiti because

that will support black people in power. the u.s. has not recognized haiti as a sovereign nation. it wasn't until the end of the cilar they sent an ambassador to haiti. they have about history between the u.s. and haiti in that sense. when the earthquake took place in was a lot of money to support haiti. they have been supporting haiti for a long time, the americans. the u.s. government, the playbook it has for haiti, this has not changed since the time of jefferson. they need to give haitians the right to have their own agency for themselves. there is this fear about haiti that is not well-founded.

elite in haiti have been and other influential members of the international committee. many would listen and hear better than they would hear the haitians and civil society. we know the eliten't want to pa. all he does is extract resources frominstead of investing for the betterment of the people. they an6■kol people hostage right now and that is why we have this crisis. host: customs and border people migrated out of the country in 2023.

that figure for so far is 85,000 people. what to the events in haiti mean for those leaving the country and migration issues into the united states? guest: every time haiti is in crisis people try to leave. land, or any way they can find to get out. this is accelerating. people do not want to leave their country but the fact they cannot go back home now. we are happy of the[[ program the biden administration started to rejoin their families here and to have an opportunity to better themselves. is something the was government can continue to support. more or less, many haitians have

protected status because of the crisis in haiti in 2010. the u.s. should continue to support giving that status to haitians in the u.s. who cannot go back. i think it is very good that years ago there was a reunificatio program where families in the u.s. could bring their loved ones from haiti, primarily spouses and children. it was a humanitarianthe vita ad encourage that. this is not a permanent solution . a permanent solution for the crisis in haiti isletting haitin representatives.

let haitians elect their own people. one someone else does it for yos it for you you have no agency or choice. a solution would having democratic and fair elections, having a package of economic investment in haiti.most of theg to the gangs are teenagers, people under 30 years old. if you have jobs, and economic package, you have security. he stopped the impurity that exists in haiti. you clean up the judicial system and no one would want to come to the u.s. as refugees and try to take all these risks. many times they end up losing their lives who come to the

u.s.. peace and security instability should start at home. having an economic package and a there is no way you can have 11 million people living in haiti to go somewhere else. that will not happen. that is why members -- haitians want to choose their own leaders. host: if i understand it correctly, you served on the private cabinet of the former haitian president aristide who was overthrown in 1991. did you learn from his overthrow? what lessons can be applied to whoever is going to be the next president of haiti? guest: the first lesson is that the u.s. is there. you cannot govern in haiti secondly, the u.s. should try to respect the will of the haitian

people. that w a shocker when you had 70% of the populationteconomic program and they did not like aristide because they did not with the pay taxes. they were able to go to washington and the administration --■r the second thing we learned is there are a lot of people who may not agree with you but you have to find a common ground to allow them to share power. you cannot take power by yourself and leave other peoplen to them then your friends. third, you should have a package of economic programs. education.

development. you can never rule the country well because it's all about the economy. it's about the people. it's about having families having peace and quiet so they can go about their business. it's about giving opportunities to young people so they don't see haiti as a place to have to leave. we have learned is you■lorganiz, and friends willing to help during the process. host: if a president is installed in the right way to what degree do you think the gangs will step back? guest: will step back if there's an economic program, a judicial program. in 2006, the president was elected and he had a program to

control the gangs. he rehabilitated the gang leaders by providing training program so they can get a job. some of them were put in jail. in 2006 through 2011, they were able to control the gang leaders. it could happen. ■7the judicial system, the economic package, the training for the young people, they will anymore because they will see for themselves a future. host: david from tennessee, independent line for our guest francois pierre-louis. caller: hello. thank you for taking my call. i am wondering if the united

states sending haiti and these other countries' governments, if were not finding the people the immigrants are running away from. funding the people the immigrants are running away from. feet are cold, starve a finish , david. caller: thank you. host: ok. let's go te in new york, republican line. hi. joe in staten island, good morning. we will try one more time for joe. ok. ask questions, (202) 748-8000 free democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. 02) 748-8002. you can post on our text at (202) 748-8003.

mr. pierre-louisback to migration. ron desantis talking about potential migrants coming to florida. he was quoted on fox news saying, "i don't necessarily expect to get the help we are entitled to. click coast guard do a good job. they are just way under resourced, saying president biden would not provide the number of vessels they needed to interdict all the ships that come." that was from florida's governor. what do you think about that response and how surprised i you bite? -- by it? guest:. florida has a large haitian american population. mr.'s of immigrant origin also. tino's full well -- he knows full wellre destitute and what y can go through. it is really n becoming of him

as a governor of florida. when you look at the situation of the haiti because they want to come to florida. patients are fleeing haiti because haitihole for them. there is no way they can survive their due to the lack of government support of u.s. government of bad leaders in haiti. the humanitarian aid, the money that goes to development of the u.s. government comes back to the u.s. a lot of the development projects have a lot of corruption. money siphoned off by political leaders who put it back in u.s. many leaders the u.s. supported have homes in florida and the united states.

the u.s. has not taken action to curb the corruption. when the governor does that, putting it back on the htian he does not care. we are all immigrants in the unitedwe came in one way or ano. it was not easy for us. what if we came in because of the famine in ireland or prosecution? somebody had a history. the u.s. welcome to them. we are a country of immigrants. we are a country of opportunities. gthey cannot find opportunities in other places. for a governor of one of the largest populations in the all over, south america, central america, the caribbean, he is not representing americans and

other immigrants in the country. this is unfortunate. host: james in north carolina, democrats caller: good morning. it's unfortunate to saying and e callers. i don't think the so-called gangs are gangs. i think they are freedom fighters, just like you have freedom fighters throughout the world. i think these people are sick and tired of the west robbing th land of all of its resources. everyone knows they don't need foreign aid. they have more resources than america does. we always prop up some civilian government we want so these rich billionaires in florida and

are sick of being robbed. they are sick of being living in poverty in a rich land. we all know haiti has natural resources way beyond his means. they don't have the investment to get it. imf are other gs of dollars and they would on the resources. and they sent troops from africa haitians are strong fighters. they will reject a white army comingrom africa to help rob them of their resources. whatever his name -- host: first time i will stop you but thank you for calling. mr. pierre-louis, if you want to respond to any of that. guest: i would notagree [dwith the caller that the gang leaders are freedom fighters.

freedom fighters do not burn down their homes. if they are freedom fighters, you have to be responsible to the people you want to free. when you go out there and burn their and loot businesses and kidnap people that have no money, you are rancking their homes, burning down their houses, displacing them, this is not the way freedom fighters fight. i cannot agree with the caller on this. the other question about resources, yes there are resources. y have the resource you don't have the right techniques and investments to extract those uryou have to have the right conditions where you have the political,sources to be

benefiting the population. if haitians have their own leaders, if other nations are free to invest, haitians or people you give the money and they turned it into thousands of dollars. if you allow them to do that i'm sure within e so there will be t haiti. first you have to allow them to choose their own leaders. host: mr. pierre-louis, what are you looking for in the days and weeks ahead that would suggest a result of what's going on? a hope that some kind of good will come out of it? guest: i would like to see a government in power. secondly, the international community should open the country. ■there is nowhere they can go fr

maladies without leaving the country. some people having condemned today becae lack -- condemned to die because of the lack of medical help and lack of supplies. weapons and bullets from outside haiti, where they getting their supplies? a provisional government. let haitians decide the provisional government. go f counsel in place so they can be free and fair elections. also, because of the economic disaster that took place in haiti in the past 10 years they should have an economic package from the international community so that the haitians can get themselves back on their feet again. thats what i hope happens with

haiti. host: francois pierre-louis at queens college at the city university of new york, political science professor. >> the u.s. house in recess. when lawmakers return they'll work on several foreign policy related bills, including legislation to block the sale of american sensitive personal data ■vata brokers to foreign■y adversaries. also today congressional leaders struck a deal to fund the department of homeland security through the rest of fiscal year 2024. congress six bills ahead of this friday's potential government shutdown. watch live coverage of the u.s. house here on c-span. >> get contact information for members of government right in the palm of your hand when you preorder your copy of c-span's 2024 congressional directory. with bioand contact information for every house and senate member of the 118th congress.

important information on congressional committees, the president's cabinet, federal agencies, and state governors. the congressional directoriry costs $3 2*s 95 plus shipping and handling. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. scan the■k code on the r or go to c-span shop.org to preorder your copy today for delivery this spring. >> u.s. and japanese offings discuss the impact, kebgivity, and reliability communications on national and economic security. the topics included the importance of trusted and secure infrastructure. artificial intelligence. and cybersecurity in the public and prat sectors. the event was hosted by the hudson institute. it runs an hour. it runs an hour. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] bk