■;

and inflation reduction. this is two hours.l

>> all right, let me call this hearing of the budget to order. i want to thank my colleagues we start it 10:00 o'clock today had a presentation to make. i thank you for indulging that.0 [inaudible] no on so let me first say good morning to our committee members esent in a special welcome to our witness shalanda young.

director young it's always a pleasure to have you here before the committee. there is simply no better communicator of a complicated budget procedure than you. presidentid have this you in this important position the president is fond of saying, a budget is a statement of values. that message is especially salient this year as president biden and maga republicans offer starkly different visions of our country's future. on the one hand president biden released a fiscally responsible budget that puts the middle class first, cuts the deficit by $3 trillion paves the way for a stronger, safer and more prosperous america. on■ the other hand to undo progrowth investments creating jobs, driving a clean energy boom and lowering costs for households across the country. all while calling to make the

trump tax cuts for the very wealthy permanent. today we'll hear about the values represented by the biden budget like fighting for that middle class, lowering costs for families, andnvesting in communities. for example president biden's budget guarantees 12 weeks of family medical leave. it would bring b child tax credit which cut child poverty nearly in half. it would increase funding for pell grants for higher education were acceptable andffble to all students. the biden budget lowers healthcare prescription drug costs for tens of millions of amic for example it would build on medicare's authority to negotiate the prices of prescription drugs and history making initiative and the inflation reduction active. medicare could negotiate the prices of at least 50 drugs a year reducing the cost of medicines in saving a medicare $200 billion over 10 years.

the biden budget reflects continued commitment to fighting climate change a danger to many republicans pretend is not even exist. ending unfair fossil fuel tax owners of private jets to pay fairly for the damages they cause. as we have heard in this committee and the internationald estimates fossil fuel subsidies at over 600 billion, with a b, billion dollars per year. by contrast house republicans value they value a tax code of billionaires big oil big pharma get massive handouts for the middle claoo bill. and which corporations contributions to america's fiscal health continues to dwindle and i refer you to this graphic that shows how much corporate tax revenues in her overall revenue picture they are less and less in balance.

maga republicans of value defundg tax cheats can keep cheating with impunity. and as we have seen they want secrecy they will not come clean with the american people about d actually cut to help the billionaire elite. that should tell you something. one thing we have learned and they say it's not going to bow the pockets of billionaires is going to come out of yours. they admit to wanting to extend the tax cuts skewed toward the wealthy and the 3.5 chili dollar costs. they rely on economic fairy dust numbers corporate giveaways will pay for themselves. eight magical tale rebutted in this committee by republican democratic witnesses alike. tax cuts simply do not pay for themselves. president biden's budget will a budget willreduce the deficitg big corporations can't get it with paying nothing in the billionaires don't pay lower tax

rates in teachers and■3óç firefighters. wood and write us or corporations at exorbitant compensation to executives close loopholes are big corporations and outsource jobs and shift profits off shore. it would make sure the irs can see to it weird in testimony save money have physical return fiscal return ashigh as 12 -- o. billionaire coddling tax code is good for its own sake. investments in the american amee when the wealthy contribute more to medicare and the fair share act. pay their fair share will protect social security, my bill does just that extending social

security solvency ind■;■nwpefin. work on these bills with the administration. republicans claimed that it no longer want to cut medicare and social security benefits. if that is true the only other way to ensure long-term solvency is making the wealthy chip and more. the biden budget is a proposal t deficits by investing in families and communities bid by demanding the taxes to be fair and actually enforcing our existing tax laws on the wealthy. the biden way is a declining debt to gdp ratio, sound marker of a responsible physical path. creating a safer prosperous and fair nation. those are our■ values house republicans would rather cut programs and services to help their rich donors get even richer. which path we take as a choice before us today. i look forward to today's conversation on the president's budget. i will not recognize my

distinguished ranking member, senator grassley and we will turn to our witness of office of management and budget. and just so everyone knows is obliged to preside this morning i'll be swapping positions with him. he'll have the opening round of questionshat i will go to the end of the line and take his. >> thank you, mr. chairman for holding this hearing. and thank you director young for coming to give the position of the administration on the budget. today's hearing is with the budget committee is supposed to do, budget issues. we spent a great deal of time over the past two years on climate, on abortion and a lot of other issues but this is what this committee should be doing so i complement the president or the chairman for having a day of budget hearings. i wish cautiously optimistic hearing president biden's call for bipartisanship and unity

during his inaugural address. but boy have i been disappointed. for thr years upon the agenda but he has taken a my way or highway approach to governing. whether those who disagree with him are attacked extremists. he taught that awful estimate but the most departed state of the union address i've ever heard. i have heard a lot of those presidential stated the unions. a partisan president i find is so different from bipartisan bipartisan senator biden i worked with 28 years the uted states senate. now comes his fourth budget agenda at a time when we need

real solution to put our fiscal house in order. this offers nothing but false promises in a far left wish list. you know, we all know this would never pass even this congress. just a few years ago, thistion m blowing up the deficit was the fiscally responsible thing to do. and the facts, they said at that time higher interest rates would be a good thing. barreling down the fiscal crisis that was started then. we are over $34 trillion in debt and still counting. even the media allies cannotqh >

his dishonest it deficit noting his policies and 'have had the overall effect of worsening the deficit thanks to irresponsible policies yet they doubled 2021. interest on the debt $870 billion this year exceeding number one responsible to the federal government. if that is not daunting enough, within 10 years social security

trust fund is projected to go broke putting benefits for over 50 million seniors at risk. what are the think is going to happen and 2033 just eight years down the road when we all know that if we don't do something about social security how everybody's benefits are going to go down7% of what they're getting now. if there was ever a time for a president to show leadership with his budget, this is instead he offers proposals so far out of the mainstream most have been rejected by congressional democrats. even if all of the fantasy proposals were enacted rain and

unprecedented death and deficit. under this and budget publicly held in debt as a share of the economy would rival the record set at the wake of world war ii. over the 10 years the presidents of budget racks up a disaster $16 trillion in cumulative it deficit. i think when i go to my 99 counties to have q&a with constituents, which i do every year, not every one of them but at most of them they yell at the back of the room what are you going to do, grassley, about the $33 trillion national debt? soon were going to be asked what we will be doing with a $50 trillion nationa debt. that is despite proposing

$5 trillio job. that's in addition to two chilean dollars tax hike for families earning under $40000. due to the president's shelving of the 2017 tax bill. how do you get around the fact the sunset under budget law you cannot enact criminal more than 10 years. without even a vote of congress we are going to have the highest tax increase in the history of the country. now unwittingly, the president's budget shows anyone who understands our fiscal situation to solve our budget woe i would remind even the chairman that just talked about taxing the rich that you could confiscate, not tax butnfiscatey

people in this country and you would run the government from just a few weeks or at most a few mon eventually your taxing people who are not written should do everything that was to be i think margaret thatcher said it best and i quote the problem with socialism eventually run out of other people's money." the presidents of budgets is case in point it includes no serious attempt to balloon spending that is the main driver over our recordt and deficits. moreover the largest expansion of the federal government in american history. now it is simple math, if you

want to implement european size government you will need to impose european-style taxes on everybody because that is what -- i cannot think across-the-board tax because they have for everybody that is similar to what we have called sales tax year i'm sorry cannot think of that word. but it is simple math if you want implement european size government you want to impose european-style taxes. that means higher taxes and higher prices for americans of all income levels. and that is what this budget does. ironically president biden likes to boast that our economy is doing better than europe's. that is been true this country is always rejected big policies envisioned by this

president. copying europe. unfortunately when it comes to the presidents budget, the president's proposal in the congress disposes and i see congress wasting no time before disposing of this budget. at the other side disagrees with me then i challenge them to set a date to market this budget. it won't happen because most democrats won't vote for this calamity. unfortunately this is another lost opportunity for the president to demonstrate leer challenges, leadership that's desperately needed if we are ever going to climb out of the fiscal hole that we have dug ourselves into. thank you, mr. chairman. she is director

we will hope to hear your opening conclusion we will recognize this step and in my place and i will swap and take his place further down the line in order to accommodate his responsibilities to preside in the senate for the order will therefore be senator ranking member grassley, chairman murray, senator romney, cetera stabenow, senator scott, et cetera border, senator johnson and then senators matt > holland, king, lujan, white house and merkley and in dispersing with those who appear. with that over to you direct or younger. >> thank you chairman white house current ranking member grassley, members of the committee. some people say they're happy to be or they don't mean it but i spent the majority of my adult career in this institution of congress. even though it might be a rough morning for me i am happy to bet

to talk about the president's fourth budget as you heard ranking member grassley say and from day won this administration, president biden has tackled challenges head on while delivering long-lasting results for the american people. over the past three years he has overseen strong economic recovery. amassed one of the most successful legislative records and generations. ron the economy from the middle out and the bottom up delivered important progress for the american people. are the president's leadership we have added almost 50 million jobs the unemployment rate has remained below 4% for two years a 50 year record. while inflation has fallen by two thirds. this administration has taken action to lower costs for n everything from prescription drug costs and health insurance premiums to everyday goods and services the president's top priority the

american people. at the same time restored leadership on the world stage while keeping america safe promoting democracy at home and abroad. the president has delivered the progress for the american people all while fulfilling his■÷ responsibility. the deficit is more than $1 trillion lower than when the president took office. thanks in large part to strong economic in addition the president has enacted another roughly $1 trillion in deficit savings over the next decade through the fiscal responsibility act. the president's 2025 budget details the president's vision for a more equitable, prosperous and powerful america with proposals for responsible probe growth investments in the american people. the budget protects and builds■v on the progress made over the last three years and proposes additional policies to lower costs for working families including health insurance, prescriptiongs, childcare,

utilities, housing college and more. these investments will help working families keep more of their hard-earned paychecksnden. it also invested in america working families. this president has shown us we can be both fiscallynvest in am. the budget will bolster manufacturing and industry across the nation. making our communities healthier and safer provide paid leave support research and deliver for our veterans, tech cut taxes from us as children, promote flexible dynamic workforce and more. the budget protects medicare and social security bedrock programs that generations of americans have counted on seniors have paid into their e lives. it extends medicare's solvency indefinitely. are quite wealthy people to pay their fair share towards medicare reducing prescription drug costs as the president's commitment to reject any benefit cuts to social security. extend solvency by highest income americans paying their fair share for improved

financial security for seniors and people disabilities and ensure americans can access the benefits they have earned. and what will be a decisive decade for america and the world the budget request the national disk strategy. by including robust and military readiness are diplomatic develop mental tools and honors a sacred commission to our veterans to building on the president's proven record of fiscal responsibility and honoring the president's promise that no one earning less than $40000 in this country a year it will pay a penny more in new taxes. his budget reduces the deficit■y by roughly $3 trillion over 10 years. on top of paying for all new investments in the budget. by cracking down on fraud, cutting wasteful spending including by reducing prescription drug costs. and making wealthy corporations began to pay their fair share.

federal workers who have worked on this budget my team at omb my team with me being here and alsr staff. i do what you do for a long time in my career but know this would not happen without your hard work so i want t who all helped to put this together today so thank you. >> thank you director younger. standing in for me, senator padilla. >> thank you appreciate the consideration. first question director young and five words or less how is the >> the baby went quietly and peacefully to daycare this morning. so the baby could not be better. she now had someplace to be. >> in my time there are two timely issues i like to cover with you and begin the conversation. colic household water and sewer bills have increased by more than 50% this last decade leaving one in three americans struggling to pay their bills.

during the pandemic we had a very successful low ie household water assistance program that was approved and serve it more than 1.4 million households and 49 states, five u.s. territories, the district of columbia 97 tribal communities but i appreciate the administration continued recognition of the successful program in the budget. by allowing its continuation under like heat.■4■■n i at least we can pass the solution would make it permanent. so in the meantime the authorization of the program. but unfortunately inappropriate and the funds congress failed to allow for■he set-aside they proposed in this and previous budget request. the question is the expansion od

the the assistance enacting appropriation bills. it saved a lot of families from water cutoffs in the middle of the pandemic her would have been had we not done something. we absolutely support the set-aside 2.7% believe that continue without eating into the program which is also incredibly important. >> okay, i assume we do not want to eat into one program they both have a significant marriage and it needed. i look forward to working with you on establishing the permanent program when the time

comes. the other issue i want to raise is -- let me say the call last week very much appreciate your recognition of the importance of following the science when it comes to the mars sample return mission prayer for the first time in history we were are launching spacecraft from the surface of mars. with the samples with detailed study. this being led by the incredible team at the jet propulsion laboratory in southern california. as you note congress was unequivocal bowl and the appropriations and many of us enacted last week in support of the mars sample return mission. and in the larger survey process that determines nasa's funding priorities. director young, could you reiterate for the record biden's commitment to supporting the independent review board assessments and theun profile resulting from its

conclusion? >> we are so committed to making decisions bedn the internal assessment that we held off on providing a 25 number while the assessment is being done so we can report a 24 number the appropriation bill asked us to take time and make sure he got that right in addition to a 25 number after the assessment is done to make sure that we get it right. >> and you show me omb and nasa are on the same page when it comes this commitment? >> we are both on the same page might come to this commitment. we are waiting for the internal review at nasa to clearly one of the things we will look at is the long-term viability, the cost of the project but lots of admissions nasa has to undertake. but we are committing to following the science. >> thank you very much. in closing mr. terry just want to thank director young for the inclusion of $38.5 million for

the river project to continue the important work safeguarding this historically underserved farming community in california. also for the increased funding for the boundary and water commission we've been working closely with your office to address critical infrastructure. >> you knoe that in the supplemental as well. >> thank you. >> ranking member grassley followed by chairman marie. >> president biden has repeatedly claimed he would not raise taxes on anyone over $400,000. the president's budget includes $5 trillion in new tax hikes which much of that targeted corporation and businesses of the 5 trillion approximate is targeted pri■$marily corporations. now i refer to the executive

branch of study on its website treasury office of tax analysis proprietor provides a distribution analysis for all taxes. that analysis shows household incomes below 300 10,000 dollars they are approximate 37% of the corporate tax under current law] using treasury's own analysis, is it inaccurate those earnings under 400,000 would see their ay least by hundreds of billions of dollars with a corporate tax proposal alone? i'm happy to look at that analysis. we took a lot of time working with treasury to make sure none of our proposals impacted making under 40000 of the assumptions corporation will pass on any tax increases that

asked for for hard-working americans are something we i se. all of his proposals are focusing on those people make over 400,000 and frankly mostly the top one and 2% earners in the country. >> this estimate is by treasury and you said you work with treasury. but then they are giving conflict and views compared to what i quoted. we have also data from the joint committee on taxation suggesting taxpayers under 400,000 would shoulder more than half president biden's corporate tax hike. and i think you keep forgetting that corporations are nothing but a sheet of paper. they are management. they are employees and they are customers. and yt pays is passed on to someone else. so you've got to get over this

he tax increases on corporations affect workers by 27%. or 37% as will your own treasury department says it. as part of his budget president biden fails to include an extension of the 2017 tax law based on informationupplied by the joint committee on taxation approximately 70% of the benefits of the tax law postherpetic taxpayers earning under 400,000. that equates to approximately $2 trillion tax hike on those earning under 400,000. so i want to make an important point that not extending these tax cuts would be a direct■ violation of the president's pledge. and that. until my next question is this the nonpartisan congressional

office has been providing congress with an independent analysis of the presence of budget since the 1970s. in recent years it has not been able to reestimate all of the proposals in the biden budget citing a lack of details from the administration on several multibillion-dollar proposals. so, would you commit to reviving cbo with the necessary information it needs to provide congress with an independent assessment of all of the policies and the president's budget? >> congress absolutely needs analysis and i've never heard this concern and i am happy to take that to senator grassley. we will provide with this assessment. ask my last question is the president budget estimates

obamacare for higher income earners. will cause 273 billion over 10 yes. this is 67% higher it's only only half ofthis increase subsie going four times greater compared to total national health expenditure. with the subsidies to high income earnersnd keeping in■> mind enrollment only swings about half of the increase? cost much more than overall healthcare costs progress want to think the senators fixing the premiums to americans were very proud of the fact enrollment has increased substantially under the affordable care act. happy took a look at the

analysis. i think the good ns story is more americans have access to healthcare through the affordable care act in some states will on medicaid is incredibly important we ensure americans have health insurance but it will cost us more in the healthcare system but we did not have this critical program at this juncture i'm happy to look at the analysis you have but frankly the good news story is we have more americans covered under this law we will continue to push to make these premiums permanent. but you cannot explain the $110 billion in other words is what you're telling me? >> i am saying enrollment is why the cost of gone up and i'm happy to work with your team to see if the difference in numbers are. i am not in the habit of answering analysis i've not seen but i'm happy to take that back. followed by cena romney. >> thank you very much chair white house. as they always say a budget is a statement of values president

biden's value tells working people and family very clearly and simply we have your back and will be building a stronger future together.president bidend strengthens the medicare medicaid and social securitye fp goes on to be to say he thanks you can quote do a lot in terms of cutting these programs. but while the leader of t partye rug out from under families and seniors president biden understands a source of her nation strength is our people investing and working families does pay off in a major way. this budget offers a roadmap for progress on tackling the housing crisis that is crunching america's pocketbooks and we are really feeling this in my home state of washington. tackling the childcare crisis like i've long challenge. nationwide can find that child care they need for about $10 a

day. continuing our historic work tackling the climate crisis rebuilding our nations infrastructure including the project in washington state which i thank you four. there is a lot more like critical investments to bolster national security by strengthening our military and our alliances which are so crucial. president budgetogabsolutely pon the american people and put our country on a more sustainable fiscal footing for this budget also lowers the deficit by simply closing ridiculous loopholes that billionaires count on to avoid paying the taxes theriault. ensuring ultra rich and largest corporations finally start paying their fair share. that should not be too much to ask. there's never any good reason billionaires should be pink less than firefighters were teachers

or nothing at all. so director young, good to have you here today. thank you for all of this work. as you well know we just passed the first which is the the agreement that accompanied them. those constraints made forfa tos is his head repeatedly. we didn't manage to hammer out serious bipartisan bills thatnoe rest. fy 25 we will be facing an even tougher set of adjustments to make use of from the outset. can you talk with us how tects and strengthens our core investments particularly on the non-defense side will working within the caps were the tools you employ■% to mixture your able to pass these strong set of funding bills?

>> gerry murray long defense discretionary trends funding grants these are critical userl programs in the federal government. we often find ourselves struggling you had to enact budget caps to make sure the critical programs for both parties have supported. in this budget because a lot of the debt deal make sure adequate make sure your 24 process can happen. have historically been used like changes and mandatory programs. an emergency spending where necessary congress has used both

of thoseools in the past appropriation bills is going to be needed more than ever at higher levels to ensure programs, nih and every other place that has bipartisan support is not cut unnecessarily. >> is the same tools we used? >> absolutely. we will need more of those most of the offset your committee typically uses sure non-defense programs are continued and members priorities are gone frankly we will have to do more changes in mandatory programs lovely notes as chips to those of us who work on this emergency spending will be necessary. >> okay, thank you very quickly onto thank you. you know how important that is to me and always ask for your continued work with us as we make sure the critical funding is there. i don't want to thank you for the howard hanson dam fish passage facility project.

i'm glad president heard me on how critical that is and appreciate working with us. >> thank you. quick senator romney followed by a sender stabenow. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it's appropriate this is being held during academy awards season. i'm afraid we do here is more barbie than it is oppenheimer. the public thanks we work on the budget. but we don't. a bit on this committee we have never met privately. we have never come together and negotiator given some give and take and come upit and get us cr to a balanced budget reveals a debt. frankly the only time we meet is in these hearings. if you have been watching over the 108 teen congress we have had 28 hearings due to how many of those hearings have been on the budget? now i am concerned about the climate. but 14 of our hearings have been on climate change.

for instance a cost of oil dependence in the low carbon world, how climate change is changing the insurance market. how the climate crisis threatens ocean industries. these are important topics they just don't belong in the budget committee. this is a committee that's about performing. getting on stage and acting like we care about these things but there's actually no work being done by this committee to deal with our budget. enter deal with federal spending. now, we pretend we are going to be bringing down the deficit. but the administration is comparing our spending to the covid years. an ae we spent a massive amount of money to deal with the covid crisis and help american families and pretending like work cutting the deficit when we are comparing a covid here is absurd. now, people on both sides of the

aisle including economist say the increase in debt is unsustainable. that raising debt as a percentage of the gdp cannot go on forever. we are apparently not in the position to do the job because we won't even meet to talk about it. so my question is, does the administration support the idea brought forth by senator manchin and myself and our chamber but also in the house by two leaders there, to put in place bipartisan bicameral commission to look at ways to hold the debt as a% of the gdp at a constant level does the administration support that legislation? >> that are lots of commissions has a budget committee passed a fiscal commission. i willngst commissions. >> you think it's a good idea? >> what i will say i will take bipartisan solutions. we are putting a path forward here i know you may not agree our revenue proposal.

>> in order to have a proposal that actually becomes a law that takes both sides to come together. i can put a proposal out there that i know has no chance of passing and pretend like i'm doing something responsible. the admits ration puts a proposal out it knows has no chance whatsoever of passing. we have republicans and democrats we have to come together and work together but we don't. so look it is the sleight of hand which is look at all of the things we do it we've got a proposal that makes it work. you don't have a proposal that would get accomplished because youan bring together both parties to do it. the sleight-of-hand, the president said the other night n tax. what he didn't say -- mickey was not talk about income tax. it was very disingenuous a sleight-of-hand again academy awards were they please not talk about the income tax they pay he knows the income tax is a very

high rate as it should be. he is talk about putting in place a tax on the increase in the value of their assets. so-called unrealized capitol gains. i do not know of any country in the world that does that, do you? >> if i can talk about this in a way. >> of the any countries in the world th unrealized capitol gains? >> of those unrealized gains are good enough to take to a bank to get hundreds of millions of dollars question. >> i'm sorry i get to ask the questions that i want and i hope to get a response from you. i do not believe there's any country in the world that taxes assets or unrealized capitol gains. i believe france tried it for a while and found it was a disaster and gave it up. and telling the american people there only paying 8%. you're not paying 8% in their income. that is disingenuous.

stupidest idea i've ever heard. it would devastate our economy but not where and how much money the billionaires are going to be paying a taxes parade that is not my concern. it's the idea it would be transferring everything for the public markets into public assets it cannot be valued easily. we need to work as a committee and as a congress start working for the american people to finally deal with the massive deficit and debt that we have and that's not happening that is what senator manchin and i have proposed a bipartisan bicameral commission to finally tackle this before become such a crisis that cannot be resolved without calamity. thank you, mr. chairman. proximity come minutes to commend the committee on three points.

october 2025. bicameral, bipartisan budget agreement. second about one third■)■ú crise were warned of and did not respond too. i have no hesitancy to do that work. repeatedly offered members of the committee to get together with healthcare bipartisan solutions i do think rather than senators talking at each other hearing right renewed commitment again right now. the massive cost of healthcare spending in ways that do not cut benefits. in the budget is under the rule of the bicameral bipartisan )agreement.

i think all of that we are talking about is invest as a country. it's important to note when we have a republican we all know $2 trillion in unpaid tax cuts to that wealthiest americans done under president trump put us in a situation 25% of all of the national debt of the country ever, ever created was in those four years. and i did not hear a lot that impact will hear it when those x cuts come up for should be extending. all this with the debt. what i appreciate young is changing the paradigm. for years we heard about trickle-down economics.

but it trickled down something different. were working by the numbers would look at the facts. for me too grow the middle class. lower costs for people, grow the middlass and we will see what happens you're coming out of the worst crisis we have had ever and covid and the mess everneded at that time but horrible situation for families but also for a new president. so three and half years later my mom would say proof is in the putting we have 15 million new jobs for three to 51000f those in michigan. we've got unemployment rules 4% for the longest stretch in 50 years. most of all businesses are being created which i love and i have to put a caveat in lead by black women entrepreneurs. so i am excited about all of what i see coming for small

businesses as well. i could go on and on in terms of what the numbers show us. we have not seen the crash that we keep hearing about from the other side. and the doom that has been expected we are seeing growth. we are cost beginning to come down and there is more to do. i went to first thank you for this budget. you are building on the progress that has been made of smart investments to grow the middle class. and to ensure frankly large corporations and the wealthy pay more of their fair share. which i think people certainly in michigan think it's a good idea to see happening. i appreciate this invest in affordable childcare. helping people by the first home. when i was talking to a coalition ofgm r commerce.

my top two priorities were childcare senator murray in affordable housing. of this are registered republicans and i love working with them. affordable childcare and affordable housing. that's what they want us to work on as folks in small communities across michigan. thist that lowers prescription drug costs again, thank goodness as we move forward would love to have bipartisan support for that. the first round, 35-dollar insulin cap are negotiable with medicare we did not get any of our republican colleagues. it would be wonderful to get some republican support for this. and of course restoring the child tax credit which, when we did it two years ago cut

child poverty in half which i think should be celebrated. so thank you for that. another three-point to trillion dollars. without harming social security and medicare. director young thank you for supporting so many things. all of the things that are important for us in. protecting our natural resources and growing our economy. we know we work together, the bin administration and in fact it's wonderful bipartisan effort around behavioral health. funding and supporting healthcare above the neck as aswell as healthcare below the neck. we have made dramatic steps forward, across the country right now to fund a comprehensive, certified

community behavioral health clinics which strongly supported by community and law enforcement and very bipartisan. several other proposals to strengthen and improve access to behavioral health. i wonder if you might speak for a moment about this. out in the real word these are very, very important issues. >> thank you for all the points you made. i could not have made them better. presidents and budgets are to show a vision. most budgets are not picked up a lock, stock, and passed. the president should put forwar. this the president believes we have to keep investing in the american people. grow the economy for the middle class. give working families a shot in

this country. and we can do that through a tax code. but that also means we need to do stuff like behavioral health. not adding to the deficit, but having $3 trillion in savings in th behavioral health budget $20 billion in discretionary resources over 2023 spending. we enable more americans with private insurance, medicare and medicaid to access mental health and substance abuse disorder care. the 988 crisis line, thank you all for helping get that started. we need more resources to make that more robust approach don't think anyone here thanks of wanting to do less for suicide prevention in this country. for civilians and our veterans. this budget makes those commitments to the american people we do is sell any fiscally responsible manner.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you center stabenow followed by senator warner he is here if not we'll go to senator van holland. senator scott? >> thanks chair. thanks for being here. we work as a whole different vision of how to grow an economy. we lost 800,000 jobs would not balance the budget in 20 years. we were going to default on our debts. budget we balance the budget every year 100 tim o skyrocketed. which gave me the ability to have record funding for education, transportation, environment of things people care about. our job growth was a faster our wage growth was faster because we stay within our means. i want to do two things. here is the way the american public looked at the budget and

here's what's actually happening to the american public. so at first, since 2008 the population is up 2%. your budget decreases spending by 66%. the american public says okay so to get for that? 66% increase in populations of 2%. if you look at the numbers you're spending per american it's not yours it's president biden's, spending is $21695. average american income is like 59000 4:30. you are expecting the american taxpayer to spend 36% income. 36% to pay for this budget. the increase per person in spending for every new person is $434,000. so, if you just look at what has happened as a result of the s a result of the spending and what is happened to

expensive. in 2022 ierest was projected 305 but ultimately end up forming 76 billion. your projection right now is 965. so far the projections have been dramatically off every year. place dramatically low every year. even with that, even with that let's say that is right. this year interest expense in excess of when anybody says they care about medicare, social security, when you see a budgeto balancing it does not make sense. there's no money there's not a dime here to improve social security trust fund there's not 1 penny. this is biden's a fourth year so let's see if it is working. the revenues are not up tshey'r. they're down 9% so that's not

working. i cut taxes 100 times my revenue went up. inflation both of us who grew up our families did not have a lot of money. you think about what's affecting families like ours? groceries upj 21% is up 40%, sh, car payments are up 26%. going to try to buy a house tha? the cost now is skyrocketed. with what has happen interest expense. median household incomes and 77800274,075 previous down so you look at its wages are down. you are projecting corporate tax rate not you, president biden is projecting a corporate tax rate i cut taxes when i was in governor because i want every company to come to florida. what we are telling people still come to america you should go to communist china has lower corporate tax rates. if our tax rates are higher we

are in a global economy with a company going to do they're going to cover the taxes are whether we like it or not. now let's look at jobs. and the last four months we have lost 1.78 million full-time jobs. we've only added part-time jobs we have 909,000 part-time jobs. just look at the employment numbers that just came out. immigrants, legal and illegal and 1 million jobs. people born in america lost 500,000 jobs. when i go back to florida, people don't think the economy is headed in the right direction. then you look at debts, jet debt to gdp since joe biden took office the debt has grown faster than gdp and f you look at the proposed budgets the debt is going to continue to grow faster than how is this ever sustainable? you cannot do it you can't do it

in business, and person, as a countr i know you're working for someone that has a totally different vision of the country than i do. but, if you look at the numbers been made work for three solid years. what i would hope is that at some point it would check, but thankyou for your hard work. >> you care to respond, director? >> i would just want to makepoi? nativeborn employment in the present took off a 6.5% unemployment. 4% unemployment january 2024. so if we are looking at facts for nativeborn employment which i hear is important and the senate brought up i thought that was it important data point that unemployment for the nativebornn in this country have come down by more than two percentage point since the president took

office. correct senator van holland. through see all covered. president took office. coming down on unemployment was all covid. isn't it a fact that around the time the president was sworn in, economists across the board weru projecting much deeper levels of unemployment and for longer than we have experienced? senator, iy five years to get to the economic scarring of the great■

global pandemic. >> i appreciate that in fact the nonpartisan congressional budget office projected that unemploymeat united states would last at a higher level for a lot longer, and as you say because the american rescue plan, we were able not only to address the covid health crisis but also the economic fallout from that crisis, and we didn't have any help from any of our republican colleagues in passing. let me just take a moment to some of the important priorities in the budget. in maryland for example continuing robust cleanup of the chesapeake bay, important support for the national asset, and a number of other priorities cl course benefit all americans who

have experienced health issues which just about every american family, so i want to thank you for some of those priorities. i do want to also command you with dealing with tax expenditures. special interests don't have to pay the same rate or under the same rules as everyone else. it's essentially a handout for the system by creating special exceptions, so i appreciate the fact that the president's budget goes after some of these tax breaks like corporate jets, the big tax breaks for the oil and gas industry. could you talk about why it's important that■e have a fair tax system that doesn't include carveouts for special-interest and how that also helps not only provide important investments for working families but the deficit?

>> look at the medicare proposal, senator. asking the we country to pay 1.2% more by closing loopholes by those that have chon to pay medicare taxes, we can save the medicare program indefinitely. that is a small example if you extrapolate to lots of different policies we can do more for middle-class and working families. 1.2% for medicare. you heard the president say he's not trying to keep rich people from being rich and may be maybg two boats instead of three by helping all americans. and it goes on and on and current contributions. all those things and sure we pay for every investment and make sure nih has the resources they need and we have a child care system that is affordable. i pay childcare every month. i don't know how families do it

other than leaving their children in places where they are nervous every day to leave their kids. the richest nation in the world, we can do better and we can pay for that. we can help families. >> i appreciate that, madame director and i would point out when it comes to medicare in addition to providing long-term stability and solvency, you talked about the president also said he wants to announce and willounce or wants to announce additional drugs that will be subject to negotiate so that we can reduce cost for medicare and extend its life and lower cost for seniors on medicare. he also said and i support the idea of trying to bring down the prescription drug costs for everybody. he did it for insulin on medicare and we are trying to do it for everybody. in my remaining time i was pleased to see the increase in resources for the social security administration which is based in maryland but can you

talk for a minute about how outdated of the technology is? this is something we should all support. we are not talking about the benefit side of the administration side. >> but we are talking aut ameris the benefits, we cannot continue to starve the social security administration of resources and that is what has happened. we asked for an increase every year, and we are frankly begging for your support to help fund thisannot starve an agency of funding and then question why phone calls are not getting answered. welace and thank you for making that happen. it's incredibly important to have the confirmed leadership there to make sure the nagement practices are up to date but there's only so much more you can do with a lot less. they've been starved of resources for far too long and people should have their phone calls answered and we are doing all we can with what we have in

the social security, but we need to the resources. >> i would just observe the social security administration is serving 50% more people than it was decades ago with less staff than were there. >> senator, you should see the . benefits, people needing benefits into staffing. thank you mr. chairman. do you know what a dollar in this administration is worth today? >> i'm sure you will let me know, senator. >> it is worth 85 cents. that is driving an awful lot of the members on your budget. it's causing an awful lot of

pick up wheree american public. senator scott left off without asking questions, but you take a look at what we were spending prior to the about $4.4 trillion. i personally think in 2020 we spend too much when we started talking about the act it was inw weeks it was up to 2.2 trillion. it wasn't money spent very efficiently but i thk wead to do something fast so the markets wouldn't collapse. but after 2020, because we spent another $2 trillion in 2020, we had so much money around the economy down 25 million for a few months we were up to about 8 million job losses but come january, 2021 when you have so much money around and so much pent-up demand, those jobs are going to be coming back

relatively soon, what do y befoh inflation? >> senator, we can also talk about inflation that's come down by two thirds. >> what caused the high inflation? >> most economists agree that coming out of a global pandemic, which is why weasel inflation across every major economy in this country, it was the supply chain issues economies turning back on coming out of a once in2 a generation pandemic which is why you saw inflation across the globe increase. >> you don't think that too few goods is the primary cost of inflation and when you spend $2,000,000,000,000.1 year over the next and then you don't readjust the baseline, how can you justify 4.4 trillion as the senator said, the population grew to presenter for this

timeframe, so 4.4 trillion to 6.5, 2021 when president biden comes into office we spent 6.8 into then 6.2. we haven't reset to the baseline. how are we ever going to recover from this? >> we put forth a proposal, a way to continue to invest in american people if we think we have adequate childcare and paid leave in this country, i welcome us to talk to hard-working americans. we can do that by asking the top one and to present to added more into the system, that way we not only pay for the investments, but we can bring down. we can't just talk about spending as if it only had those programs that had working families in this country. >> if you make the rich pay their fair share and by the way the top 1% garnered about 20% of income at some point in time you have to say that is a pretty

fair share. i remember when a couple hundred money, political process would be all upset if you're running a couple hundred billion out of the deficit, your plan to get us out of this, you're running deficits of 1.8, 1.5, 1.5, it never comes down. basically locking in at least $1.5 trillion deficits for the next ten years. that's what your budgeting. clearly this is unsustainable. you don't worry about■ again sparking massive infusion that further devalues the dollar from that is why we put forth a plan that would actually bring the deficits down. we care about the physical path

into this president has shown how you can still invest in the american people and achieve deficit reduction and by the way to sign a fiscal responsibility act tt a trillion dollars on the deficit. >> so you're proud of a ten year budget that never reduces the deficit, never brings it down below basically 1.5 trillion? >> i'm proud of a budget that reduces the deficit by over $3 trillion that continues its investments in american people. and by the way most economists will tell you the way to look at the affordability of the dead is to look at the debt and deficit as a percentage■■t of gdp the deficits are below 4.5%. >> i don't think the average take a look at $1.5 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see it i think this administration is bringing down the deficit. that is just fantasy talk. >> senator kane followed by senator marshall. >> good to be with you. budgets aren't about numbers,

they are about people. they've come out of covid was stronger than any economy in the world. jobs are up, unemployment is down, manufacturing jobs are dropped, inflation is coming down, people's 4o1 kays are up, the rate of people that have insurance in this country■q dramatically up. these are the measures i look at when i look at a budget in an economy, and i don't see a competing economy in the world that has done with the u.s. has done and we've exceeded our own expectations from the cbo and others as senator van holland stated. a couple of comments on some virginia prayer ready as i and i want to dig into childcare. first i appreciatet's budget hag to save the island in the chesapeake bay. i asked a question for the record in her confirmto invest n fighting sea level rising to promoting coastal resilience in the president's budget including

to make sure we save this island in the chesapeake bay that is lost about 70% landmass and is extremely vulnerable to climate change. i was not happy that the president's budget is zeroed out a program that i cared about, which is funding for the healthcare needs of our mental health care providers. the budget is strong with respect to behavioral health. but there's a particular program that i've worked on bipartisan that focuses upon the mental health nds of healthcare providers named after a virginia emergency room physician who died by suicide in april of 2020, and i will work with my colleagues to make sure we continue that funding. i know you are under title budget caps. let me ask about one right now. the president dissent is a supplemental that we have passed in the senate by 70 to 29 votes for national security and one ot

investment in the initiative of the framework to work together with australia and the uk to build out more deterrence in the indo pacific. one is construction of submarines and selling them tools julia in the 2030s eventually equipping australia with a capacity to build their own. the president strongly supports it and showed a great initiative with the president's budget that was reducing and we' budgeting it and the president suggested in this budget that we would only build one a year to get to our commitment level where we could meet what we committed to with australia we have to get to 2.3 so i view the two to one this budget is an unfortunate backslide with the president's request for refund

the iniative. can you tell us about some of the challenging trade-offs you had to make inputting the budget together to meet the budget caps? >> we felt it was important. the president makes a deal to stick with the deal for the responsibility act but i want you to know the president, the administration fully believe in the partnership with australia of 1.3 submarines a year and we need that number to go so it isn't just funding the submarines. i would ask you to look at this in concert with the supplemental. we need the supplemental to move out of the house for not just our partners in ukraine and israeli and humanitarian assistance, but we don't talk about the submarine and indo pacific part enough. that money is critical to n thek

for two, we can get to because right now the industrial base is not sufficient and doesn't have enough capacity to do that, so we need the supplemental to move in order to keep ourment intact, and we look forward to working with you and others to make sure that it remains in place and we get the money and of the industrial base to produce more submarines. >> other colleagues praised the president's budget in the childcarere i joined that. it's good for parents and kids and childcare workers and the economy. it will free up people that are out of the economy now. the next question how challenging is it to be six months into a fiscal year and not have appropriations bills? >> the old staff director is me, on the backseat in trouble.

i regret the late bill i may have worked on and it didn't didn't fullyappreciate how diffs to implement programs into the efficiency. a big fire drill,ing to pass in. activating lots of people seeing if we have to put stuff on hold+ it is no way to run a government. so we share your frustration and we want to look for ways speaking of bipartisanship ander on. one is on the process question and i'm one of the believers that believes that it will get a good product and we have to do something to work on the process of the appropriations process. someday they will think about and work on for the rest of my time working in this town since it is incredibly important. agencies depend on this and by

the way i would like. it's a good thing congress looks at 30% of the programs every year but unless we fix the process, that frustration is going to bubble up. you see the problems with it. >> you have many supporters including the chairman. i appreciate the service. thank you. senator marshall is next and then depending on who is here, senator lujan, graham, warner, berkeley. thank you mr. chairman. today i'm here fighting for my grandchildren's future, for your grandchildren's future, for our grandchildren's future. they have to live in a world spending more money on interest than we do on medicare, on the military because of our for spen

their children are going to school there will be less money for good schools and hospitals, high-speed internet, a strong military because of the spending we are doing today they will suffer the consequences of this interest. i want to quote something that you said and you've written as well, director. the president's budget reduces the deficit by $3 trillion over the next ten years. i think that is deceitfully disingenuous. you've repeated here multiple times to decrease it from what to what, 19 to $16 trillion. only in washington, d.c. do you make the claim that increasing the cumulative deficits by $16 trillion is a decrease. at the end of the day, you're adding $16 trillion that my grandchildren will be paying

in genuine end of the american public gets of that. my first question, how much money is the federal government going to spend this year? >> senator, the budget as many slides have shown is about $7 trillion. >> so the current fiscal year 2024 we are going to spend about 7 trillion and then in ttscal y? >> we haven't put out a budget for the next fiscal year but if you are talking about a baseline and nothing changes, the outlays will be about 7 trillion, 7.3 trillion. >> thank you. i would point out that from the last five years the government spending has went up or 50% with no end in sight. next i want to talk about budget deficits for the second.

a $2.8 trillion, we can blame that all on covid if you want to. we continue with of these budget deficits of approaching $2 trillion and perhaps more. i don't think anyone can argue that that is the future and then we look at the national debt of course that we are going to add another $2 trillion to the national debt. that is that end of the day budgetsñ be damned. i would ask about ukraine funding. they reported the department of defense sent $10 billion worth that it doesn't have the money to replace. is that reporting accurate? >> no one was officially quoted from that administration and i've read article. so i'm not going to comment on unauthorized people that speak on that background. what i will say is as our

ukraine . >> if we had the ukraine funding -- >> you're asking question based on sources. >> it's the value of them today so in reality this isn't a question. in reality we sent $121 billion. here's the question for you. it is the administration have the ability to provide any additional needed to ukraine in the absence of congressional action, yes or no? >> so, senator, we have to do the supplemental. >> weon anything.

that's your opinion. but answer my question is the administration provide any additional needed to ukraine in the absence, that is yes or no. >> if we have additional replenishment funds -- >> so you're not going to answer my question? >> i'm trying to. if we have additional replenishment funds and if materials come in cheaper than we thought, then that will give us th maybe do another drawdown package. we are looking at that. the department of defense goes and buys the equipment if some comes in cheaper. >> well this administration provide ukraine any additional aid in any form until congress passes the supplemental? >> if we believe we can do that to your question if we believe we can do that without affecting best readiness in a detrimental. it is the president's commitment we will not let vladimir putin marched through. >> we've been told over and over by the administration we need to spend another ten or $20 million

to replenish what we've given so we didn't properly account for what we already send them. senator markley. >> thank you, director. are you familiar with of the■d term greed to inflation? >> i think i know what it is. >> what i want to submit for the record if there is no objection an article entitled it causes more than half of lester's infla surge is corporate profits remain at an all-time high. if i could submit that for the record. >> without objection. >> it points out that a big source of the inflation we've been dealing with is the corporations doing huge increases on products and having an all-time high profit which is

a different explanation we might have heard earlier in this hearing. and then my colleague from utah was talking about unrealized gains, and we have in america a system of dynasty wealth protection, and it works like this. if you have stocks and bonds and you hold them then they receive the stepped-up basis which means they are never taxed for the increase as you bring it to the next valuation and if you have property, it's even better. use l1 property and by another and to use the exchange you are never taxed and it also receives a stepped-up basis. so essentially, the wealthy investing in property proceed to never taxed ever on their income from the growing value of assets, is that not correct? >> that is correct and it's time to do something about it. >> so this dynasty protection

has resulted in the united states having worse distribution of wealth, the most inequality of any of the developed countries. i just went through to give you a sense of this the top 1% of household wealth compared to canada and 20% in japan at 10%. if you look at t top 10% own 80f the household wealth and canada is 50% in japan 40%. so, we put laws in place that essentially create the very dynasty wealth of the warned us against, is that not right? >> senator, we share your concerns which is why this president speaks a lot about closing the wealth gaps in this country. that is why we do something about the real estate transactions and that is why we

do the billionaire tax. most americans have no idea of all these ways to get around ta. they get a paycheck and they get taxed. >> my father was a mechanic, and he said why is it that in america the laws mean that those that earn income by the sweat of their brow pay a higherax those that are in money through investments, and in your budget you have with $100 million a provision to help provide tax on some unrealized outcome, is that not correct? it's the first i've seen a proposal coming from the administration to try to help t. our system is enormously beneficial to the already wealthy, making them more and more wealthy while the burden of

this parent who strived to4? ofn feed zero and federal income taxes so they used a vast amount of the educational system because of the people they hired, a vast amount of the highway system for transportation, a vast amount of basically every stage paid to zero in taxes and in your effort the biden administration had

minimum corporate taxes that grew from the investments that need to pay a share towards it. that's the right thing to do, isn't it? >> we are already on the path, thanks to you and others that voted for the inflation reduction act, we have for the first time at 15% minimum and this budget would take that to to 21%. >> that is a terrific improvement. thank you. >> i wanted to let the senator go do his duty on the senate floor. my medicare and social security fair share act would implement the medicare tax proposal and the biden budget and medicare can pay out 100% of medicare benefits indefinitely. how would the medicare tax proposals and the biden budget

assure the programs solvency in a fair and equitable manner? >> i talked about this a little earlier. thank you for your work on this proposal, senator. it not only helps the medicare program stay around indefinitely. the prescription drug piece but an shorstein years pay less and the government pay less. it helps with our deficit reduction. the president's medicareú' proposal would ask those at the top one and 2% to pay 1.2% more into medicare.se loopholes the wealthy found not to pay medicare tax in this country. it would expand prescription drugs from that amount in the law now due to the reduction act to bring in more drugs that saves the cost to the american and frankly, these are common sense things if we want to do

something about the medicare solvency indefinitely, these are common sense ways to go about and to the president believes in them and this is the second time proposing the changes. >> and relatedly on social security, accornguary, the medicare and social security fair share act would extend social security solvency indefinitely also. and it would do so by making those earning thousand dollars contribute the same share that regular workers are obliged to the first levels of income and it would lift the cap essentially and kick in about $400,000. is that proposal in line with the principles that your budget is seeking to achieve? >> absolutely you heard the president to speak about this vy clearly. no benefit cuts asking higher income earners to pay their fair share to make sure social >> we had that wonderful moment in the previous state of the union when the president talked

about republicans who want medicare and social security cuts and they all rose and said we don't do that. we have a unanimity moment aboue cuts. now of course that was based in fact we had actually members of this committee say they want to take social security and pull it up by the roots and get rid of them. that is@ hardly in a position to benefit cuts. and just this week the former president said that as a part of the campaign he was looking at cuts to social security and medicare. so it is important that we get this done now while we have the ability to do this under president biden because otherwise all the signs are that there will be cuts to social security and medicare and let's look at healthcare savings. there's an enormous healthcare issue in the budget and we've

done a lot of good work i think most of the affordable care act proves in real practice that you can save on health care costs without cutting healthcare benefits. things like the organizations. will you work with us to in the federal healthcare that do not touch benefits? >> absolutely, senator. one, we have to bring down. we have seen improvements since the affordable care act was passed. we also know what the cost to the american people, to the government spending is if we don't do all can to bring down the cost of healthcare. we know also it costs a lot for the uninsured populations to exist. so, i am ou enrollment in the affordable care act. but we pledge to work with you

to make sure that we are continuing to bring at our disposal to bringing down the healthcare cost. >> we have seen in rhode island 32 of the best performing accountable care organizationsce per patient going down, the happiness and joy going up. they love the additional services that they get to help bring the cost down. and of course healthcare outcomes and improve and that is the path i intend to follow. one final point and then i will turn to the senator. the crime victims fund is largely sourced for criminal fines and penalties as a former prosecutor, i very well aware of how it enables the state and local communities to provide emergency services to crime victims like shelters, transportation. very often for victims of domestic violence and to support them seeking medical and mental

health care victims so often face and require in the aftermath of a crime. director, the president has proposed a plan for appropriations to help support the fund over the next five years. why are those appropriations so important for us to maintain separate for victims of crime? >> this is incredibly important. this would cause about 1.35 billion. we also restore the crime victims fund so that they can be maintained over the next decade and we would love to work with you on that proposal to make sure that it has the funding these victims rely on and need. >> thank you, mr. chairman. director, thank you for being here today and for your leadership. at the president's budget

mentioned the pending supplemental request to continue the affordable connectivity program through december of 2024. the budget also promises, quote, the ainistration will work with the congress to secure additional funding for this important need in 2025 and beyond. yes or no congress allows the affordable connectivity program to lapse, what it cut the productivity for low income families elinating access to work, to education and healthcare? >> yes, millions. i've been proud to work with senator food andthers in the house and the senate to move towards incorporating the universal service fund to ensure its long-term stability and improve the prog effectiveness. director, will you commit to working with me to secure additional funding not just in 2024 but the 2025 and beyond?

>> absolutely, senator. i will work very hard for the ukraine a supplemental. the president also asked for $6 billion for this very critical broadband connectivity program, and we hope congress will act soon so millions of americans don't lose access. >> i appreciate that very much.h system has pushed to its breaking point and i was just visiting with a few mayors that are in the nation's capital with of the league cities. they heard from the president just yesterday. over the past 25 years, new mexico has had the highest drug induced death rates in the nation into the consequences of the drug use continue to burden the communities and this is something that we have heard day in and day out from our mayors. that's why i'm proud they make investments not only individual and families impacted by the substance use but also across different communities that are especially highly at risk to

overdose and this includes pregnant and postpartum women and families, individuals with substantive disorders like those that experience housing instability or seeking services, even substance use disorder. director young, why is it important to find evidence-based harm reduction, treatment for the use disorder for all americans? >> we have seen american families stories and what it said on in the generational harm that it can cause is absolutely critical just like any other healthcare disorder that we have the resources needed. we have to make sure insurance companies cover the mental health and substance use disorder like any other ailment that might befall someone in a

physicalat we take this seriously. i've been hardened by the bipartisan interest in doing something about this. it's going to take both parties coming together. one more thing, we haven't talked about this a lot today is also stopping the flow of some of these dangerous drugs that have come across our borders and part of the presidents supplemental request is putting equipment in to make sure we can stop fentanyl crossing the borders. >> i appreciate that and if i could interject for a second for some procedural business and we will restart the clock for■lk te senator. but the staff have kindly agreed to gavel out the rest of the hearing, and i have to down for a voting rights act. let me just conclude by thanking you very mfo here today for the budget that we could all i think would be supportive and proud of and with

that, we will close out. thank you mr. chairman. >> i very much appreciate that response and especially the latter, tne complement, there'sy compliments that i have for the chairman, but one of the responsibilities also is chairing the counternarcotics group and the one area that i believe also needs more attention is looking at illicit financial markets. these lot of money moving around the country, and i don't hear a lot in that particular space. i look forward to working with your office and o■f course senator whitehouse as a team and others to make sure we put a dent in there as well. i appreciate the presidents continue to support for the department of energy and the departments national labs, but i'm concerned with the modest

investments requested by the presidt are the nation's scientc challenges. for example we must increase the energy security while at the same time address the global climate crisis. the international competitors are not waiting. i meet regularly with the leadership across the premier national laboratory systems including the national labs in new mexico, los alamos and i know the national labs are capable and eager to help the natind world solve the climate crisis but the president and congress need to provide them the resources to get the job done. director young, as you know on his first day in office president biden committed to reaching zero emissions and as you know this commitment requires a massive reinvestment of arana d and in the national labs, can i get a commitment from you today to work with me end of my colleagues to increase the ies the level needed to tackle the climate crisis?

>> you have my commitment to doing that. th contains 10.7 and i understand more is needed. you know this is our last year of budget caps, but i am committed to working with you and the president understands how vital the national labs are to reaching. you absolutely, we want to continue the partnerships to make sure the labs are robustly funded to meet at the moment. >> i appreciate that. i have other questions i will submit for the record of giving it a director, i just want to close and say thank you to you and your team. most recently the senate took a vote on the compensation act amendments. sixty-nine senators voted in favor of addressing this important policy, and of the statement of policye president f the united states i know how to be reviewed by your team extensively. i just want to say thank you and

i know the families across america tt will benefit from the program will also like to say thank you as well and with that i will yield my time. >> senator, you are recognized for your question. >> i can't get over being the stuff director. i'm very sorry. [laughter] >> thanks for getting recognized. [laughter] the witness into the sitting senator. >> it looks like i'm the last senator standing. we've had a lot of interesting discussions about the health of the government and financial trajectory. a question for you because a lot of the facts and figures i think have been covered by other senators. you think a balanced budget amendment or statute be helpful to keep both sides of the aisle in a where they have to do that a simple thing so that we do not borrow from our kids and grandkids. i know everybody has great ideas and intentions, but it■b looks

like the major result over the last probably since the bush administration to put two hours on the credit card ids been both sides of the aisle and that goes back to 200, and during three decades of it soon. where are you on the balanced balanced-budget amendment or statute? >> we were always thoughtful about these things and i think you for the way you approach them. i know we have a lot of disagreements but you're honest about your ideas and my concern about that type of amendment is what it would do to the programs like social security medicare. i do believe it is going to take bipartisan solutions, and i know senator romney talked about the commission. our concerns are always going to lie in what will dramatic cuts due to the benefits of programs. i think about my 95-year-old grandmother. if we did that, what happens,

what is her source of income and stability if we pull back dramatically in that fashion on social security and medicare? that is my concern. >> what about the crowding out effect year after year? and donk that we will ever get to a point i know in the president's budget that is assuming that stuff can get done that it doesn't tamper with economic growth and i think was set in place back with some of the stuff done in 2017, which probably disagreeut isn't there a point where i think it is called the modern monetary theory where deficits and cumulative debt don't make a difference anymore? do you believe that anymore? >> i believe we need toeebt anda percentage of gdp don't make the

debt sustainable, so there are measures we have to be very careful about. we have to make sure the interest stays well below 2%. the deficits the long run are about four and a half% of gdp. most economists believe those levels make our debt manageable. so we agree we need to manage the fiscal health phenomenal numbers tell one story. the more complex story is looking at a lot of these things as a share of gdp. going 50 years back, we've never other than two years generated revenues regardless of the tax rate. you raise taxes and flush a little more into the treasury

and start to lose economic growth over time. if you lower taxes, you take a little bit away from the treasury and raise economic growth over time. before covid, they were about ready to say that we were neutrs and jobs act and then of course all the wheels fell off and at some point we have do not defy statistics to keep social secuty medicare, medicaid defend the country, maybe we have to do fewer things but anymore the mandatory spending is getting to the point it's driving everything structurally. it sounds like you are willing to live with never reducing principal keep growing debt as long as the percentage of interest/f■gu■dh3 doesn't swamp.

>> i think the way to measure these things from sustainable it interest is a percentage of gdp and the debt. i don't think the principles should never be paid down, but i'm also a believer that revenues are the story to tell in this. i do believe especially with of theirs investments we have, thee is a different story we should be telling about bringing revenue in and of the last time we had surpluses have revenue higher. >> a couple of years out of the last 50. i want to make sure you don't try to generalize that because that has been harder to obtain. the other thing i would like to point out is with of the economy as it has been constructed the last three years i make the contention that government has benefited most. the only part of the economy that a■2ually brings prices

down, enables you to raise wages would be for more business investment. government is another form of consumption, and we are already a consumer driven economy based upon i think borrowing and spending as opposed to investing and saving. i'm about out of time here even though i'm of the last senator. 0÷ we are not going to get to any agreement there. i just want to put it on the record i think that we are headed in a direction that we have never been in before in the history of the country. i would a site coming out of world war ii where the last time we had the government as a percentage of gdp where it's at now and we are not in a war and we were savers of the investors, we paid it off to where we almost had no debt to build the interstate highway system. a lot of what you want to do through government i don't think is going to be sustainable when

we don't put more discipline into the configuration. so i think a lot of the things you talked about are in jeopardy because we just cannot over time when the facts and figures say we've never generated more than 17 to 18% of our gdp and federal revenues have any federal government now to 25% higher than what it was before covid and we are not involved in a war. think about that. i thk need to pay more attention to it. i think the country in the long run is going to be going through some really tough times living beyond our means. thank you for being here. >> thank you. you are no longer the last senator. >> thank you. welcome. i'm not going to ask you any questions. [laughter] i just want to make a statement here about the bge got problemse

budget with taxes and spending, but one thing about this budget that is not just unique, the defense side of the budget is not good for the country. it was the result of the deal negotiated with the former speaker of the house and the administration approved by the senate and i just want the american people to understand from my point of view for whatever it's worth, i've never seen this many threats at once. according to the fbi director, wherever you look you see blking red lights. isis is coming back into afghanistan. we have a land war in europe. everybody's running out of ammunition, russians are outperforming the west and you've got israel in a fight for its life. so the needs are the greatest i've ever seen quite frankly. literally, we are having to scramble to meet production

needs. hopefully the aid package will get out of the house. but our ability tos completely . there's no way to explain what's going on in the world other ts no longer a worthy opponent after the withdrawal from afghanistan it not only related to the rise of isis, which threat to us, a broken border on and on a combination for another 9/11 like i haven't before. but you see bad actors 21, the taliban take over afghanistan, 22 russia attacks ukraine, 23, hamas attacks israel, 24 american soldiers: jordan of al places. the world is literally on fire. it's being presented by the

administration and would take us to the lowest percentage of gdp spent likein world war ii, 37% s spent on a fight for our lives. at that generation rose to the occasion and 14% of gdp. the peak of the cold war about 9% of trying to make sure that we stood up to the soviet union. september 10, 2001 the day before 9/11, 2.9 during the global war on terror it was 1.7. gdp spent on defense. this budget in 2025 will be 3.2% by 2034 and we will be spending 2.4% of the gross domestic product on our defense.7q that makes zero sense given

what's going on in the world. everybody worries about china. we ought■es from 298, i think 292. the need for the navy according to combat china and others, 450 ships. so we are going backwards. what would it take to get to 45? 5% above inflation for a decade. we are spending below inflation we are actually cutting. at the number one job and goal of the federal government is to defend the nation. we are now having a defense budget enacted that would be 2.4% growth. we need to grow from three to 5% to match the threats. so this isn't your doing. it was negotiated by the people.

but i would say of all the times i've been here, and i've been here a while, i've never seen both parties lose its edge when it comes to making defense department has the resources to deal with increasing threats. this budge us on track to have the lowest spending on defense in modern history at a time the world is literally on fire. i will do everything i can to turn this train around. the supplemental has money not only for israel, taiwan and ukraine but money for our own defense needs so i am insisting that we pass that budget and hopefullye can note that supplemental land find a way to get it out of the house. i keep trying noninterest forgivable loans giving $34 trillion in debt may be the

key but when it comes to the defense needs, the budget is not only inadequate but it puts us on a pathway to reduce our capabilities when all of r capabilities. a nightmare in the making. thank you. thank you for appearing before the committee today. the full written statement will be included in the record. questions for the record are due by 12:00 noon tomorrow. we ask the director to respond to questions within seven days of receipt. with no further business bhe hes adjourned. >> thank you, mr. chairman. that is bipartisanship.

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