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>> this is really at its core a story about the politics of food and the food of politics. if viewed through the lens of the white house, which is a unique place. >> what inspired it? >> i grew up in a household of

foodies who like to talk politics around the dinner table, and so, it was kind of a combination of things. i wrote julia childs's memoir, my life with friends, and the subsequent books about julia. in my research i discovered that julia had attended the white house on numerous occasions and televised to state dinners there. the first was in 1967 with lyndon b. johnson, and then it's -- 9076 when gerald ford hosted queen elizabeth for her by some tech -- for the bicentennial. that notion intrigued me, the idea that she had was to show people, a side of the people's house that they had never seen before. her cameras for the first ones to go into the lighthouse kitchen and observe -- white house kitchen and observe the incredible effort it takes to prepare for a state dinner and pull it off. and then in 2016, i was giving a

little talk at the white house for mid-level staffers at the obama administration about freshwater and why i think it will be a defining resource in this century, based on my book, the ripple effect. and a friend of mine worked at the obama administration, and he offered to take me loved -- to lunch in the navy mass, a cafeteria on the ground floor. he took me on a quick private tour of the white house, which i had never seen up close and personal before. and, to my surprise, i was emotionally impacted by that tour. i mean, the white house looms large in our minds as a symbol, but it is also an actual functioning home, the nerve center of the united states, a decorative arts museum, and probably the most influential home in the world. so all of these ideas were swirling around in the back of my mind.

and without really realizing it, i -- the idea coalesced, my interest in food and politics came together in that moment, and i was in the mill of other things, two years later i returned, and in 2018i began to work on this book, which is coming out. >> readers will pick up that you had a lot of fun working on the project, where some places that your research tokyo? >> this was such a fun book to do, because i make history nerd and a foodie, and it was a combination of all of these things. covid intervened halfway through, but i was able to go to places like hyde park, monticello, mount vernon, the woodrow wilson house in washington, and see these places and, of course, the white house. and they really bring history alive. you see where these people live. you see fdr's kitchen, which is

enormous and well appointed compared to woodrow wilson's kitchen, which is dark and slightly odd looking, to my eye. and they have very different ideas about food, and it is physically we esented there. or you go to monticello and see the fantastic gardens. th a still functioning, in this wonderful warehouse that is like going inside of a dream. and you realize that this all functions on the backs of slaves, and there are many layers, and the subject of the food and politics is an umbrella that covers many different subjects. everything from the presidents personal tastes to local politics, global diplomacy, climate change, or religion, gender and so on. the hard thing for me was to decide what not to use. because i beget -- as i began to

research this, i realized every president has an interesting food story. and so i had to we know down, live a lot on the -- we know it down, leave a lot on the cutting room floor, and i really had a ball putting it together. and halfway through covid head, and i was not able to go to these places any longer. but i had the great fortune of meeting people at the smithsonian and the elected congress, and -- the library of congress and presidential libraries but we were twiddling our thumbs during the pandemic. eventually the book came out, we literally could not produce the book because of covid, i am not dealing one who had that problem. but here we are and i'm really happy to talk about. >> you say it covers many subjects, but did you find that certain themes came through pretty clearly through your research echo --?

>> of course, once on biases come through, but i was always fascinated by the role of enslaved people in the white house kitchen, and in the development of american cuisine as we know it today, i tried to highlight the role of first ladies and first families where appropriate. it turns out that the first ladies are not only important toward the domestic sphere of the white house, but also politically. some women really enjoyed the role, like dolly madison. or jackie kennedy. she had kind of mixed feelings eventually. or nancy reagan. others really did not like it. president truman's wife went back to missouri every chance she got. i thought that was interesting, and that's the way personal

dynamics within the first cap -- family can affect a much broader sphere. i won't say it impacted the world, but it can affect the administration, for better and for worse. you know of the role of indigenous people, the role of different cuisines coming together to form what we now think of as american cookery. in the early days our cooking was reliant on basically english recipes from books that were brought over. but those were compliant with indigenous ingredients, like venison, and corn, and wild turkey. ultimately, tomatoes, spices and herbs from some of the slaves and their cooks, the tools and techniques of the french. in this wonderful amalgam of cookery.

and you know, one of the people that really begin to codify all of this was thomas jefferson's slave james hamilton, i'm sorry, james hamilton -- james hemmings, who jefferson brought to paris when he was an 18-year-old boy, train him in some of the finest kitchens, brought him back to the states, and used him as a political tool, essentially. hemmings cooked for some people like george washington, and hamilton, and adams, and leading politicians of the day, and diplomats that came over for dinner. and he had -- he was a wonderful, intuitive cook. they cooked over an open fire, which is difficult, and he had a real technique. his story is kinda fascinating to me. you know, there is all of these

little strands. i love the way that jackie kennedy, for example, based her entertaining on that of king louis the 14th, the sun king. and very intentionally used delicious food and wonderful entertainment as a way of brokering diplomatic deals, or business deals, or even marriages, and it was a way of keeping his friends close and his enemies closer, and jackie use this probably better than any other first lady and was emulated by nancy reagan to a certain degree of success. and it is fascinating to me how certain administrations understand the value of food as a political tool, and others do not. and we can talk about that. >> you had to choose among the

presidents and pick 26, and we only have an hour so we will do a brief survey of individual presidents. i want to start thomas jefferson because you got him our founding epicurean, and he set a quality standard for food conversation that has rarely been matched. >> he was a born epicure, he was raised with a high level of food in virginia, he was a very inquisitive man, he was sent to france as an ambassador, right before the french revolution. while in france, he spent time at the world court and saw how the used food as a political tool, but he also saw the starving commie knives who were eventually -- they eventually revolted and began to guillotine the aristocracy there. he spent a lot of time tasting

what, what to him, foods and wines. he became a real wine expert. --. his cook large to mythic things like vanilla ice cream -- learned to make things like vanilla ice cream and macaroni. and jefferson traveled all over europe, sensibly doing diplomacy, but really, collecting recipes, and even foodstuffs like italian rights that he loved. and it was so prized that the italians threatened to arrest him if he took any home. he disregarded that and filled his pocket with rice. and then he later hired, i think some smugglers to bring some rice back over to america where he pointed it at monticello. he really appreciated food as like a political tool, but

appreciated it aesthetically, and his thing to do was to have a dinner party that began early, involve multiple courses, scintillating conversation, with people that he agreed and disagreed with. lots to drink, and talking late into the night. and some of his staff got weary of waiting for them to finish so that they could go home and at the end of the evening. he is the kind of guy that i would love to have hung out with. and he was very wise about using food to broker deals. >> we have a video that explains some of the inventions that he had in this dining room. we will watch this, just a minute long. >> at the monticello dining room, there are number of contractions and conveniences that the limit -- with the number of people required to be present at the dinners. so, the food would come in

through a side door with a low shelf, a way of bringing food from that can -- kitchen underneath the house without entering the room and exiting it nonstop. they could put it outside the room and the butler could turn the door and bring the food into the room. the wine cellar was located directly beneath the dining room, and thomas jefferson had winding dumbwaiter is built into the mantle so that wind could be delivered to the fireplace. so, he is using these contraptions to limit the coming and going of his slaves and servants, but at the same time, there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to make the dinner and the conversation go well. >> you say that he brought some of these techniques to the white house, among his goals was not to have loose lips reporting on

conversations in the dining rooms. >> that's right, he understood that breaking bread together was an opportunity for two talk outside of the normal political channels. so he would invite people over who would disagree with each other vehemently public, and they would break bread together, in private. and work out their differences, or at least agree to disagree and work around it and create some legislation that more or less satisfied doing. he did not want the slaves or anyone else listening in and misconstruing what was being said, or leaking what was being said because it was so sensitive and private, and these, you know, backroom deals really were efctive. d in the musical hamilton, lin-manu miranda has a whole

raft wrap -- a whole raft called the room where it happens, a reference to a famous dinner that took days before jefferson was president when he brokered a deal between madison and hamilton to essentially save the union, this young nation that we had which was really an idea more than a functioning democracy. george washington was president, at the warring factions were essentially north and south, north being represented by hamilton and the south by madison. the issues were how to structure the debt after the revolution, and essentially create a financial system using taxation, and where to build a better city, which came washington, d.c.. and the public dialogue had gotten so spread out that it was beyond the point of repair.

jefferson was concerned that the young nation would fall apart. so he invited hamilton and madison over for dinner, and they broke bread, and at first they would not talk to each other, but eventually the wind and the delicious food made by james hemmings softened them. and they began to actually talk frankly, and they hash out a deal, which became known as the dinner table barking. and that deal, you know, -- arguably save -- same to the republic. that is how jefferson used food politically. >> one last question esther percent on -- on jefferson as president, you write in this story that starting in 1801 he worked with his daughters to host three congressional dinners a week, and he kept notes of every legislator who attended. how did he use that information? >> isn't that great?

he affected this kind of carefree air, but underneath he was calculating, and would invite people from different parties, the federalists on one side, and the democrats, republicans on the other. and he would use these dinners to gather intelligence and figure out what they were really after, deals could be made and not made. to kind of keep a finger on the pulse of washington. at that time, it was just a small backwater city. so very much under construction information. and he understood that a lot of these congressmen came from far away. they were often alone, and did not have families or could not bring their families. they were living in orting houses. the kind of from very different backgrounds.

and so it was kind of a stroke of genius to bring them together over something to eat and drink, make them feel comfortable, make them feel heard, and then to extract information from them, that they know where he stood on things, and it was really effective. >> fast forwarding any years, to ulysses s grant. what interested me is that he came in as a meat and potatoes military man, and penned a statement that the expansion of the pallet and mirrored his own after the civil war. tell me about that. >> ulysses grant was famously a military man, you may recall that he was also an alcoholic, which was a demon that stood on his shoulder is his entire life and he fought against it before the civil war. his uncle -- alcoholism was

noticed by his commanding officers, he ended up selling firewood on a quarter, had a family and he was really down in the dumps, and the civil war ironically resurrected him, and he proved himself to be what they called unconditional surrender grant on the battlefield. and eventually became the head of the united states army and then was elected president. and he, as you said, was an beat and potatoes guy to begin with. he like to have david stewards -- rb stewards prepared giant slabs of roast beef and mashed potatoes, and turkey, and more turkey and cheese and apple pie. his wife was not thrilled with that. she aspired to the more like the washington swell that she saw going by their window onto lovely dinners and lunches. she did -- redid her wardrobe and the white house, and then

she redid the kitchen, and brought in a series of shafts. the best-known was a guy named valentina mala, -- valentina mala, born in sicily, came over to this country, a wonderful quote -- cook. he was known as the professor because not only was he technically a genius, but authoritative when he talked about food. and he would produce these 30-off course dinners, each more fabulous than the last. wind. -- paired with wine. and then ulysses grant came to really appreciate good food when he was in the army, he would have a breakfast of coffee and cucumbers, which does not sound very appetizing. and it eventually got into having bacon and eggs and lots of coffee, and he could see with this is going, ultimately he

embraced good cuisine, and in fact hosted the first ever state dinner for a foreign dignitary. that was the king of the sandwich islands, which we now call hawaii. this is important for many reasons, but back to the politics of food and the fruit of politics, the reason that the king was in washington was because he was trying to lower american tariffs on hawaiian sugar, and they did work out a deal for that, and sugar became hawaii's biggest export for a hundred years. it ultimately led to the sugar plantation owners taking over, and the capture of hawaii as an american state, many years

later. but it was -- the first time that a state dinner had been a foreign dignitary, and it was a big deal, thinking of hawaii -- the court created a famous menu that was fabulous and had many courses, and that got a lot of attention in the press. it was a moment when america was booming. there were gold and timber coming from the west coast, salmon railroads being built, factories being built, it was the mad rush financially and politically. and ulysses grant got himself in trouble with people in his administration being corrupt. he was a very trusting man. probably just intuitively, but also from his military career,

other people took advantage of him. and he used these dinners a little bit like jefferson, to bring people together, and broker-dealers. but he did not like getting dressed up and being fancy. he likes keeping things simple. one of my favorite anecdotes is that he began to shoot bread balls at his children at the dinner table at the thought that was hilarious. and he would sometimes forget where he was, and he shot a bright ball at the british ambassador's wife wants, and hit her in the head. i think he was a little startled. terrific, colorful character. >> moving into the 20th century, and somebody like being formal in a way that hoover did -- grant did, herbert hoover, he ate a seven course meal in formal wear alone. >> and he would rush through his meals. he had these wonderful dinners, but he would rush through them.

>> he became known to the world because of his work basically as the foods are and all that after the first world war. tell me about his philosophy of food when he came into the office. >> he understood that food was a political tool, and rather intentionally used it to break the back of bolshevism in europe, and millions of russians were starving and he helped supply them with food, and he made his mark during the first world war after the germans invaded and they would steal a local -- local food, and food riots would corrupt people were starving, and hoover and wilson, who was president at the time, began to shift food and material across the atlantic.

this was one of the things that led us into the war. there are posters at that said that wu -- food would win the war. and there's a whole fascinating history about that. the propaganda around food, and how that could be used to political and. there was some of the stuff i had to cut. if it believes interested there is plenty of research out there today. and, you know, ultimately it, it led to global food programs that still exist today, where we are the preeminent food donor even now. people don't really realize this, food is essential for life. we all need to eat. and it can be used for good and for ill. some electrical, or even hipper,

or solid, would use food as a weapon, if you can capture the enemy's food supplies and feature on people, you are denying it to your enemy. and churchill used to say that the stomach governs the world, and he used that in a very manichaean, harsh way. even though he himself was a great gourmet. >> before the start market crash changed everything, you say that he hired three full-time secretaries to build guest lists for meals at the white house, and insisted on serving the best food. so, insisted on this, that hoover's only dined alone once a year on their anniversary. >> must like jeffrey -- much like jefferson, he would bring people together, pick their brains, let them know he stood,

at the table is a place where people can let their guard down, and they can speak of the record and be frank. and he valued that. before he became president, he was a very successful global mining executive. he had lived all over the world, and had all sorts of adventures. he understood the value of breaking bread way that others did not. but, you know, ironically, he had to content with depression. that -- the depression when people were starving. and he had a bit of a tin ear at first, we do not realize that his fabulous meals were not playing out politically while people were starving on the reets. and people building hoover bills, so-called,nd uh, it became an ironic uh, appetite that he had that although he enjoyed good food, it ultimately worked against him. and people began to throw rotten

tomatoes and cauliflower at him. and he was -- it was sort of a sad ending to his ministration. >> roosevelt is the one you doubt is the second epicure of the white house. you can see that there was a big tug-of-war going on between him and eleanor roosevelt about white house food. what was that about? >> this is where the side of the white house that people are not always aware about comes to play. that domestic side. the relationship between eleanor and fdr was fraught. they had been brought up in wealthy mill you, they were actually distant cousins, they were both cousins of teddy roosevelt. they were both brought up on delicious food with cooks of the house and servants, but they had a very contrasting style. fdr was a real gourmet, and a gourmet is someone who loves

siliceous food, and a gourmand is someone who eats success. teddy roosevelt was a gourmand, but if was a gourmet. eleanor treated her food as fuel. she would just eat toast and bacon soup and did not realize what she was eating. fdr love exotic food, whether it was bison steak, or special fish floating just for him from all over the place. and, so, that was sort of uh, guaranteed to cause some marital tension. they had these different views of food. eleanor began to embrace feminism at domestic politics while fdr was contented with the nazis and their rising europe. so, she began to use the white house as a bully pulpit to

promote healthy, but economical eating. and in doing so she hired a woman named misses henrietta, who she had met in hyde park, over bread. and she was a wonderful baker. as she began to supply the political campaign with baked goods. and when they went to the white house, roosevelt hired her to come and work for them. the problem was that henrietta nesbitt was -- had no idea about food, and no idea about supplying the white house, which was a very active place with lots of people under a bright spotlight. she did not do the cooking, she was hired as a housekeeper. she was in charge of the kitchen and the procurement of food and when ashley came on, she began to use leftovers and served just

horrible dishes like spaghetti with boiled carrots on top. or a so-called salad made of jell-o and marshmallows and crushed candy canes. and so for fdr, this was kind of torture. she would also serve things like liver and beans five or six days in a row. or oatmeal, two weeks in a row for breakfast everyday. and would yell and scream, but he never fired her, which i thought was curious. it was the president, and he could not control his own diet. so i looked into this. it turned out that eleanor was protecting misses nesbitt. i think, in part, because when fdr was secretary of the navy, eleanor discovered he was having an affair with her former social secretary, lucy mercer. which she saw as a real betrayal

, it deeply wounded her. it turned out that fdr most likely had other affairs, at some historians concluded that eleanor used misses nesbitt as a weapon at domestic revenge, forcing fdr to pay penance for his peccadilloes. ernest hemingway and his wife visited the white house, and hemingway has a hilarious description of what he called the worst meal he had ever eaten. you know, a little bit of squad and some old salad, and a terrible cake that some unskilled amateur had made. he said that john would go back to the white house, but would never go back again. >> we are learning about presidential food, at the intersection of politics and presidential eating, and both

were relieved roosevelt i just wanted to get one more not domestic, but diplomacy story in. this is another clip that we have from kevin oldenburg, the site manager at top cottage. the story of hotdocs picnic. >> this included chang kai-shek of china, king george the second of greece, the crown prince of norway, prince giuliana of the netherlands, the prime minister of canada, king george the sixth, and queen elizabeth from great britain. trisha was on this porch, and probably the one remember -- people met the most was the hotdocs picnic, when the king of england arrived here in hyde park. the visit was a historic visit, as it was the first time that a senior british monarch had been to the united states. at that visit was caps off with the picnic on the porch here at

top cottage. and we always hear about the hotdocs that was served, but the venue -- many was much more vast. they had virginia ham, smoked turkey, hot sausages, hotdogs, mixed green salad, strawberry shortcake, but it was the hotdocs that really stole the show. and they were premium hotdogs. i don't believe the queen had ever seen a hotdog before. >> anything else on that story alex? >> if you got them into the bear. hot sausages beer. and the new york times was so impressed, they had a big headline saying king george eats hotdocs and shakespeare, and asked for seconds. [laughter] again, there was a political motive. this was before they entered the second world war. fdr strongly feared hitler's, and wanted to join the allies

against germany. but the united states was in an isolationist mood at that point, many americans were annoyed at great britain for not repaying their first world war debts. but he realized that the king and queen were a unique couple, and that if he could humanize them, and make them appealing to the american public, help to sway public mood. and so, this was kind of a coup d'etat, a theatrical moment orchestrated. much like jefferson, fdr was a guest, and understood how to use food in a very shrewd, political way. and he knew that giving the king and queen hotdogs and beer at a quote unquote simple picnic would cause a sensation, and create headlines and sure enough the day. and at the same time, behind the

scenes, he and king george conferred, and he quietly told the king that america has britain's back, and would start to send food across the atlantic, and convoys, and would sink any u-boats that attempted to attack them. and let the chips fall where they make, which was quite capable pulled move at that point. and it did not come to some, because shortly after that, the german street into poland and the second world war was off and running. by that point, he had helped to convince the american public that indeed we should support the allies in europe, and that picnic became known as the picnic that won the war. and i love that sort. >> fdr used top cottage as his place to bring people in, dwight

eisenhower at the farm in gettysburg where he did much the same thing. and then there is lyndon b. johnson and his branch of western texas, you visited it 74 times, and he was a practitioner barbecue diplomacy, you say. how did that work yet, >> -- july >> there is this great myth of the american cowboy, and he used that very shortly. he would get people out of washington or out of their embassy and out to his ranch in texas. in the texas panhandle. and the formula worked like this. he would show up to the ranch, and he would take you on that leisure -- leisurely horseback ride around the ranch and show you this and that. then he would give you a beer to quench your thirst, then you would have a dinner of barbecued ribs or perhaps seven chile,

which was created by his black coat, zephyr right. wonderful -- black cook, zephyr right, a wonderful dish. maybe a little bourbon or whiskey. and then he would move in and say now, i would like to do -- like you to do me a favor. whether it was a congressman, or a foreign dignitary, this was a very -- a very effective tool, because few people could resist his charms, the ranch, and the food and drink. >> but does he not also hold the record for the most state dinners, 55? what is that say that he was using the white house as a tool. >> right, he understood it, he was a man was very observant, he had a chip on his shoulder, he came from the wrong side of the tracks, he grew up near

starvation. his family occasionally ran out of food, and they would have to borrow meals, essentially, from neighbors, or ask for handouts. and food for handouts. and food and was in its effect. at once in position to create food legislation, and programs -- and once he was in position to create food legislation programs to help the poor, they were very personal for him. his personal cook, she helped to persuade him to write the civil rights act, and after he signed it, he gave her the pen. so, for him was a potent metaphor, and message. and he understood its power in a very visceral way. >> we have not gotten one point on the table, how is all of this paid for, this entertaining jacob --?

>> that's a good question, and it is still confusing today. the official answer is that state dinners, which can be very expensive, sometimes millions of dollars, which take months and months of planning, those are paid for by the united states government. however, the president and the first family are essentially employees of the government, and they have to pay their own way. they have to buy their own food, their own clothes, their own toiletries, whatever. and, so, this has been a sticking point for some presidents who do not come from meats, like harry truman, who was a haberdashery. he did not -- who was a haberdashery and did not have great fortune behind him. but if you or someone like jfk, he had his father's vast fortune to rely on, or if you are someone like jefferson, who had a slave plantation, you have plenty of money to educate in

the style, in the high style. and so, it's, it's a point of contention. >> fast forwarding to the 1980's and ronald reagan, 75700 and 61 people died at the white house during the first reagan term. what was he using those meals for? >>an reagan modeled her entertaining on jackie kennedy. she claims she did not, but she clearly did. and it was quite effective in reaching across the aisle and brokering deals. you may remember this, the reagan years were politically tense, but behind the scenes, nancy managed to orchestrate various dinners with the so-called opposition, democrats who held sway in washington at the time, even going into

so-called enemy territory, going into that graham housel, the people who read the washington post or the private clubs. but then she also understood pomp and circumstance. and so one of the first big events thathey did at the reagan whiteouse was a celebration of reagan's birthday, and that was a black tie affair, very fancy. but this was considered a private party. which -- their wealthy fans -- france help pay for. -- friends helped pay for. they could be a lot more fun and a little looser and were not constricted by protocol, and could simply be with their personal friends, their daughters, their political allies coming over. and you know, reagan, use food interestingly to connect with space.

he was famous for jellybeans. jellybeans are entered -- an interesting story, because they seem to be a trivial candy, but actually, the back story is that he started eating jellybeans because he was weaning himself off of tobacco. here's a pipe smoker. and then he was jelly -- used jellybeans to judge people's character. if some of came into his office and began to pick out certain color of beans and not eat them, he would take note of that. it meant something of that person to him. it was also awake of using food to relate to his voters. he would say well, i like this simple, sweet candy, you like it. therefore, vote for me. he did not even have to say that. he just use the jellybeans as a metaphor for his good-natured, folksy demeanor. he would hold up a big jar of jellybeans and show it to the cameras and smiled. and it did backfire at one point

when there was sort of a coming together of events where he was eating jellybeans, which are sugary candy, his administration declared, infamously, catch up to be a vegetable, and at the same moment, nancy reagan had just acquired a very expensive, large, and beautiful set of new white house china. that was paid for by private funds, by donors. but it got lost in the brouhaha that happened. and reagan cut back-to-school expenditures at the same time, and he was calling catch up a vegetable and it blew up in his face. that is the downside. if you're president, every bite you take matters. and that was an example of where

this seemingly simple situation spun out of control. >> he almost tied lg -- lbj's dinners, one became a medic of the 80, charles and diana at the white house. but the most significant was the dinner with mikael gorbachev. white? -- why? >> this was specifically the curtains being drawn over the report. gorbachev had realized that the ongoing cold war was destroying russia and europe, and reagan was forcing his hand. so after years of negotiations and dinners in europe, and all over the place, the gorbachev's came to washington and were hosted by the reagan's at a wonderful state dinner, it was

-- it was very emotional. and people in the audience were crying because the uh, the moment was historically significant, but you mentioned the -- lady diana and prince charles visit, that was a bit of theatrics orchestrated by nancy reagan. i'm not jackie kennedy, -- just like jackie kennedy, where this was a surprise where ronald reagan was dancing with diana, and nancy was dancing with prince charles, and then with a signal light nancy out steps john travolta, the sinuous dancer from saturday night fever who lady diana wanted to meet, and they had a very sexy dance together.

and it is one of those images that defines the reagan white house, this fabulous moment of food, entertaining, a combination of celebrity and royals, you know, to a certain extent, the nations mind was being blown seeing this, and the images of the kite went around the world and still come up to this day, our defining of that era. so, even though uh, raven -- megan was not a foodie person, nancy understood the value at -- of entertaining. >> we have 10 minutes left, and i will do a quick roster of the presidents. and so far between first century has been a time -- confusing time in the food of politics and the politics of food, you say. let's go through the list are quickly, i have one line from each free to comment on. george p. bush. how 9/11 changed presidential food, really, forever.

but was the chain? -- what was the change? >> the president could no longer accept food gifts from across the country, which was popular, we became so concerned about security and that really change things. the clampdown also returned us to simpler, more homey food, comfort food, because we were in a state of trauma, and relied priorities. >> barack obama, the most globally informed palette since herbert hoover, and food became part of a larger culture war during his administration. >> obama was criticized for being an elitist because he liked to eat a regular salad, he was a real foodie. and michelle obama was someone more focused on health, with her campaigns which were very popular and help people start

taking about obesity and diabetes, which can lead to all sorts of horrible diseases. and they use food in a shrewd way, but the problem was that barack obama tried to emulate teddy roosevelt, and he messed up some of the big food trusts at failed and the lobbyists and the food companies made that that did not work out. and ultimately michelle obama -- came more effective by planting her white house garden. which i think is a terrific story partly because it seems radical at the time to rip up this beautiful green lawn and plant a vegetable garden. but it was also very retro, the earliest of the white house, presidents often had gardens there, or chickens running around, and even a few of them had cows, some of whom lived in the white house. for the milk. and so, it was a return to tradition.

it was not only a message about healthy eating, it was also a message about the politics of food. and michelle understood that, and was a little tentative about jumping into that battle. but ultimately did. and that proved more effective in getting the message out, and the presidents legislation. >> donald trump you right he understood the politics of the dinner table that are than any other president since the kennedys. >> yet. people cannot believe it when i said that. but it is true. he used food in a very shrewd way. i am not sure how well thought out it was. he likes to say that he operated from his gut. literally and metaphorically. and when he would tweak pictures of his taco bowl, or his pizza hut, or his burgers, this directly appealed to his base. i talked to academics about this. you see someone wearing a

similar shirt to you, you say that is a nice shirt. it doesn't register too much. but if you see somebody eating the same kind of food that you like, it -- it triggers something in our primal brain. it always goes back to prehistory where food was a matter of life and death on a daily basis. if he saw someone eating the same kind of food you did, that meant you were of the same tribe. and it is true today, and it is not a conscious thought we had. , it is an emotional impulse. much like reagan and his jellybeans, trump was saying, if you like the same kind of food i do, both for me. he didn't have to say that, it was just the message of those images. and like reagan, when he hosted a football team for a so-called dining room, under the portrait of a blinken at the white house,

the images of that dinner went around the world instantly, and became defining ones. and people, traditionalists about sides of the isle were outraged by this. and that was the point. he made a statement, visually, about his values. and his voters. it was reminiscent of andrew jackson and other populists, who very intensely used symbols like that to appeal to his voters and it was a truly effective. >> joe biden came into office and lifted the covid restrictions to have only one steak dinner, any comments on his relationship with food? >> joe is a spaghetti and ice cream guy, he is not a big gourmand, but his wife jelly is a very accomplished cook. she grew up with italian grandparents would like to make homemade pastas, and homemade

bread and meat balls and she took up the mantle of cookery. and kamala harris is a break up -- accomplished cook and has some cooking videos you can see online, where she is brining a turkey, or she is schooling senator warner on ticket -- making a tuna melt, or is cooking with mindy kaling. her interests are very genuine too. again, this is the role of the first lady, if there is a blending of personal and political when it comes to food. >> on the note, you close with some observations about the pole of the president at the first family as eaters in chief. what are your thoughts about that, and what opportunities and responsibilities that will comes with? >> the public really pays attention to what the president and first family eat.

when trump was talking about his burgers, the consumption of fast food, particularly amongst republicans, went up. and it sort of gives people a to the president each. the accident reflect the nation take along with his own to screen looking back, the foods like possums or squirrels do, or torah soup, past presidents have eaten those that were trendy in their date that we consider weird or disgusting now, but when they would be those things, some presidents inspired the public. and so, my feeling is that the president ought to acknowledge this, openly. and it the best of american ingredients and techniques, and i think we up to showcase the cooks, and the kitchen is on the ground floor, kind of hidden

away. i think we ought to physically and metaphorically elevate the kitchen, put it in the sunlight, allow the public to have a peek at it from a safe distance, and see these wonderful meals there. by these very words. they are feeding the presidents and their first family on a daily basis, but also, congressman and dignitaries from -- congressman and dignitaries from abroad, and elevating the role. >> we have two minutes left, went to tell the story of the state can review went to? >> i managed to get it right before covid started, luckily enough. i have been trying to get invited to a steak dinner. and the trust administration only held two of them. and did not see fit to invite me. because i wanted to do what julia child had done way back,

which was to cover a steak dinner and show the american public a side of the white house they don't normally see. i was denied that opportunity. so i got creative and decided to create my own state dinner by hooking by crook, and i managed to convince a former white house cook to cook a wonderful dinner, each of the courses was based on a real recipe used at the white house or state dinner, and had a story behind it. we started with mushroom soup, moved onto a delicious salmon, salad, with amish cheese, and finished with a chocolate bob that was fabulous. and i invited 10 people who had either worked at the white house, or the washington post or work food historians, and we had a lively conversation about what it is like to be at a state dinner, and why it is still important and relevant, even in the era of the internet. and how human connection over

food is this seemingly hardwired impulse. we seem to need to get together whether we like each other or not. and it is a great way of brokering dialogue and moving things were. >> your book also has a few historical references include for the readers, titled dinner with the president, food, politics and breaking bread at the white house. thank you for spending an hour with us. >> thank you so much and let's all break bread together. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> all programs available on our website as a podcast on our c-span now app.

>> for two weeks in march 2023, former -- democratic commerce meant along with -- democratic congressman, along with a priest met with ukrainians who fled their homes since russia's invasion in 2022. sunday night on q&a, they join us to talk about their trip and share stories about the people and refugee organizations that they visited along the way. >> he and his mother knew they had to leave when they could lie in bed and cure russian troops torturing some of their numbers -- neighbors, and russian troops believe that they had given away their positions to the ukrainians. they said they are torturing our neighbors they are coming first -- are coming for us. >> he told us his home was firebombed and destroyed

completely. he had it on his phone and showed me. so i asked him what he wanted to do. he said i don't know. he didn't even hesitate. >> congressman and father, on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now at -- app. >> here is a look at what's coming up tonight on c-span. next on afterwards, depaul university professor kelly pope examines the rising cases of fraud in the u.s.. and then we will hear from 2024 gop residential home foals -- hopefuls as they speak at the leadership form in indianapolis. later, merrick garland talks with reporters about drug trafficking and enforcement. those programs and more tonight on c-span.

>>ongress returns monday for legislative work. the houses is back at 2:00 eastern. members will vote later in the week to do attempt to -- to attempt to override president biden's veto. they will also work 2:00 p.m. -- they will also work to ban trans gender athletes from women's sports. they will also provide local fire departments for grants -- with grants for training and staffing. also more votes on president biden's nominations for the justice department. watch live corage on c-span and c-span2. you can watch all of r congressional coverage on our free video app, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. c-span is your unfiltered view of government, we are funded by

these television companies and more. ♪ mid cove supports c-span as a public service, as a public service -- along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. next next on book tv's author interview program, afterwards. kelly pope examines the rising cases of fraud in the u.s. and explores them of the motivations for committing collar crimes. she is interviewed by former fcc commissioner kathleen casey. afterwards is a interview program with relevant guest hosts, interviewing top nonfiction