he's expected to pro moat the tax reform law. we'll take you there live at a few minutes past 4:00 p.m. eastern time. after the speech, the president will head to atlanta for the college football championship ame. deadline for c-span's student cam 201 video documentary competition is right around the corner. it's january 18. we're asking students to choose a provision of the u.s. constitution and create a video illustrating why it's important to you. students across the country are in final stretch and sharing their experience with us through twitter. these students participated in a student cam film festival. this was an interview on climate change. and this student learning a lot and having fun while editing. our competition is open to all middle school and high school students. grades 6 through 12. $100,000 will be awarded in cash prizes and the grand prize, a $5,000 will go to the student or team with the best overall entry.

for more information go to our website, studentcam.org. >> this week on q and a, meijer inc chairman, hendrik meijer, talks about arthur vandenberg, the man in the middle in the -- of the american century. brian: hendrik meijer, author of of the man in the middle of the american century. when was the first time you ever thought about writing a book this -- about this man? in 1989 i thought of a biography. but i was casting about for another idea. i'll a failed fiction writer

and poet looking for a character i wouldn't have to create but could explore and explain. was talking to freand of mine historian in grand rapids, saying arthur vandenberg, i am intrigued by him. i love foreignpolicy. i kept running across his name. but some professor back in 1970 published the first of what was supposed to be a two-volume biography and i thought the world doesn't need two biographies. that year my friend was responsible for the local state historical society's annual meeting. he was putting together the program. he said i have to fill out my agenda. why don't you come and talk about some episode in arthur vandenberg's life. i gave a little lecture on the debate over the repeal of the arms embargo in 1939 before world war ii. and the eight weeks later i get a call from the daughter of this professor who was said to

be working on the second volume of his biography. turns out he had a very difficult life, had been very ill. had died and his adult daughter was responsible for selling his house and he was teaching in chicago and didn't know what to do with all of his research for arthur vandenberg. it had no monetary value. this is back in 1990. their door rocks copies of things from the truman library, roosevelt. which she hated to cast her father's life's work research out on the street. she calls the historical society of michigan says do you know of anybody who has any interest in arthur vandenberg. the only person they knew was me because i had spoken at their conference eight weeks before. and i ended up bringing a vanload of papers back from chicago to my home in grand rapids and went from thinking the world doesn't need two biographies to having a sense of mission f. you don't do t.

who is going to? brian: 1989 was about 27-28 years ago. why did it take so long? henry: somebody said, where did you find the time with your day job snim' also involved with our family business. i said, well, it only took me 26 years. maybe i wasn't an efficient writer. i know that i had the biographers' weakness for research and spent a great deal of time interviewing people working in the vandenberg papers at the university of michigan. ending up with 1,000-page manuscript that wouldn't be publishible. -- publishable. spent years bringing that down to 900, 800, taking out a paragraph here and sentence there. then finally getting some editorial advice that said, no. take out chapter 3. combine chapter 7 and chapter 8. finally two decades later i had a publishedable manuscript. brian: meanwhile, the last number i read was 72,000 employees in the meijer.

you're c.e.o.? henry: executive chairman. brian: you were c.e.o.? henry: briefly. meijer for the those of us that live on the east coast? henry: my grandfather was a dutch immigrant who meijer for opened a grocery store in the great depression. subsequently with my dad's leadership that small, what became a small chain of super markets evolved into what became super centers. we call them the self-service discount department store with the hometown touch opened a bec didn't know what else to call t it was a combination of a super market and a discount department store behind one set of checkouts. brian: how many different stores? henry: we have 235 now. brian: let me put on the screen a photograph of arthur vandenberg. i want to you tell us who he is. henry: arthur vandenberg was united states senator from michigan from 1928 until his death in 1951.

he he had come from a background as a reporter, editor, and publisher of the local republican paper, the grand rapids herald. he had come from a background of what we now call isolationism. he was of that generation that came out of world war sr. very -- i very disillusioned with the experience there and the peace conference at versailles that ended up to the viktor go the poils -- victor go the spoils. nd sewed the seeds of discon-- discontent that would lead to world war ii. after world war ii that position of american isolating itself, retreating from the world, was no longer tenable. we were the most powerful nation on earth and had to assume responsibility for global leadership. brian: i wrote down some of the words you used to describe hifment one is pompous. vest, if we can see in the picture, had he a vest.

spats, did he wear spats all the time? henry: no. in his early days. brianon pinky ring. cigar in his hand. how many cigars? henry: he finally switched later in life to denicotine cigars. he called them sexless. he smoked cigars throughout his life. he was notorious in the newspaper for the ashes that would heap behind the radiator. notorious for never carrying a match and always needing someone with a cigar. but he has one in virtually every picture you see. brian: beau ties, congressiness. any other ways to describe him? henry: i think it was "the new york times" columnist reston or walter litman who described him as the only senator who could strut sitting down. he was almost a cake ture in that way of the -- kerik ture in that way.

he was over six feet tall and large with a big head and very eyes. ting so he -- way he carried himself also suggested someone a little larger than life. brian: let's listen to him and look at him on video. this is from 1936. eyes. so he -- way he carried > i think that sums it up. this is the most important campaign since the civil war. it is a campaign against various brands of socialism, fascism, communism, bureaucracy, and bankruptcy. it is -- brupcy. it is -- bankruptcy. it is a campaign to save the republic. that's what it is. brian: 1936. henry: this is in the middle of the new deal. this is after franklin roosevelt is elected in 1932. vandenberg coming from michigan

wishing -- understanding how dire conditions had become in the depression joined with franklin roosevelt, supported some of his early new deal measures. in fact, against roosevelt's resistance, pushed through the legislation to create the fdic. federal deposit insurance corporation. that was his babey. even though roosevelt came to claim it and it was arguably one of the very most important new deal reforms. but in 1936, things were beginning to turn. of course this is election year rhetoric. but we also see roosevelt becoming much more aggressive with the national recovery act and some of his measures that republicans, conservatives, like vandenberg viewed as centralization of power. and a growth of federalism that was a step on the road to the distinction he always made was it was important to be social minded but not socialistic. this smacked to him of moving down that road.

of course right after that election is when roosevelt proposed the court packing measures on the supreme court that lit up vandenberg and all the conservatives like crazy with fear of where roosevelt was taking the country. henry: to the extents we can attribute a connection, it didn't help him. brian: you list everything else he was involved nsm the household words. tell us what they are. things like the u.n. and all that. what did he play a role in? henry: he played a role after world war ii, first of all franklin roosevelt, come interesting that post-world war i generation of leaders, recognized -- he and vandenberg had a bitter relationship. vandenberg was such a critic of the late new deal measures, he

called it the new ordeal, that roosevelt hated to do it, but he recognized that as vandenberg emerged as the leading republican voice on foreign policy, he would have o name vandenberg to the american delegation to the founding of the u.n. to write the charter in san francisco in 1945. then roosevelt dies. harry truman becomes president. he had famously had lunch with president roosevelt once in their few months in office together. and so really came in as a decisive figure, but unschooled in foreign policy. roosevelt had always been his own secretary of state in effect, and had used harry hopkins rather than the state department to carry out a lot of his foreign policy plans. dead and a velt weak secretary of state, vandenberg goes to san francisco as the strongest

american delegate at the founding of the u.n. 's facing off with the russian foreign secretary russian foreign secretary across the table in san francisco, setting the groundwork for the united nations. and then soon after that, truman asks vandenberg and his democratic counterpart, senator tom connolly of texas, with whom vandenberg alternated chairing the foreign relations committee, he asked them both to be delegates to the post-war peace conferences where the foreign ministers were meeting in paris at the luxembourg palace to settle peace agreements with italy, with romania, all the countries that had fought on the side of germany. vandenberg spent the year, 1946, in a diplomatic role that was unprecedented and still is for a united states senator. and then he's chairman of the foreign relations committee when george marshall proposes a very ambitious campaign to help

rebuild europe. becomes the marshall plan. vandenberg is the legislative engineer who puts that through the congress. and then economic security isn't enough to rebuild europe, there's also the increasing threat of the red army occupying central europe and a new society behind, a phrase vandenberg used, the iron a ne curtain. so the western european democracies come to the u.s. and say we need a security agreement. we need a military alliance. and vandenberg, wrote the vandenberg resolution that was the enabling legislation for the us to us join nato. brian: how about some personal stuff. how much education did he have? henry: he was high school graduate in 1900. he spent one year in what they then called the law department at the university of michigan. and then dropped out of the university of michigan.

ran out of money. and came back and got a job as a reporter. brian: where did he live all of his adult life? henry: at the age of 21, just before his 22nd birthday, he became the editor of the grand rapids herald. he was a bit of a wunderkind in midwestern journalism. the year later, in 1906, in 190 he built a house in grand rapids where he lived the rest of his life and died in 1951. brian: how often was he married? henry: he was married to his high school sweetheart who died of a brain tumor quite young, her early 30's, 1918, left him with three small children. the following year he remarried. an acquaintance he became reacquainted with from his year at the university of michigan, hazel. he remarried. married her. and was married until her death in 1950.

he was twice widowed. brian: here's some video showing his wife, hazel, and the daughter. and it's only 35 seconds. we'll ask you more about this. >> certainly sound like more war in europe. i hope america has sense enough to mind her own business and stay out of these foreign troubles. if we create a strong neutrality policy and if we make it mandatory, and if we decline all entangling alliances, we ought to be able to keep america in honorable peace. that is what our people want. and so far as i am concerned, that is what they are going to get. brian: you did a documentary back in 2011. why? why the documentary before the book? henry: i had a friend who was a filmmaker in grand rapids, and

said you have nd all this material. are you working on a book. had he said you have all this material. are you working on a book. had he done a documentary on president ford, another grand rapids boy, said let's work together on vandenberg. it helped energize me, frankly. was a great opportunity to do additional interviews. and take advantage of some of the work that i had done to do something that would be a little more immediate than the book. because at that time i still ad years to go to edit the book. brian: that scene where you saw the wife and daughter, what was the relationship between him -- senator vandenberg and his wife? henry: they were -- i called them boone companions. they were very good friends. i think there was an element when he remarried of needing, wanting a mother for his three small children. but they were also very good friends. i want to say it was close. at the same time i would be remiss not to point out that he had what was for the time a rather high profile affair in

1939, 1940 with a woman named minutesy, the danish born wife of a canadian diplomat attached to the british embacy. it became controversial because -- embassy. it became controversial because alter wentzel, went on air and referred to the senator from mitz-igan, and her husband, harold simms, was reputed to at the ode room british embassy. very good friend of william stevenson who ran the british intelligence operation in the u.s. they were also neighbors at the hotel which was the premiere residence thole on connecticut avenue. so that provoked a crisis in their marriage. the daughter, betsy, who you saw there, i think she almost -- she married and divorced soon after, but i think it was almost in reaction to the

crisis in the household. where she talked about her father having to decide whether to stay or to go. and hazel never quite feeling the same, of course, after that traumatic situation. brian: how public was the mitzi simms affair back in those days? henry: it was -- again when you ve someone like walter wentzel talking about it. it was quite. an wentzel talking about it. it was quite public. there were rumors that she was the d been planted on him eldek "chicago tribune" correspondent said to me, of course theyaid t planted mitzi simms on vandenberg just like kate summers on ike. these are contentious issues that have never been resolved. the affair was clear. the love was sincere. i think it would have been logical that the british, since

vandenberg was plotting with fellow republicans and democratic isolationists to keep us out of world war ii, this is in 1939, to keep us from aiding britain, that they would want to know what was going on among these opponents of their future. brian: hazel and the senator died close to each other? henry: yes. she died in 1950. in georgetown hospital here in washington. he died in 1951. in fact, they were -- side by side rooms for a while here in washington. he had half of his left lung removed in 1949 in ann arbor at the university of michigan. then came back to washington briefly in 1950. but was never -- and hazel did as well. she died here and he was never strong enough to resume his seat in the senate. brian: here's some video from 1945. i want to ask you about the

famous speech in january of that year. that was the big year when v.e. day, v.j. day. this is from detroit. how far is grand rapids from detroit? henry: about 160 miles. brian: he's talking about the importance of collective security here. >> no nation here after can immunize itself by its own exclusive action. only collective security can stop the next great war before it starts. i propose that no other nation shall have any chance to use ur silence as an alibi for ulterior designs if such there be. i propose action instead of words. i propose action now before it is too late. i propose it for the sake of a better world, but i say again and again and again, but i propose it for our own american self-interest. brian: you point out that january 10 speech, 1945, same

year as this, in the united states senate that 59 senators present on the floor at that time. what was the point of the speech? henry: the point of the speech just anklin roosevelt had won the 1944 election. he's about to be sworn in once again. and he is about to leave a few weeks later for his summit conference at yalta with winston churchill and joseph stalin. there are earlier conferences during the war have been about wartime strategy. the war is almost over in january of 1945. the germans are on the run. e're approaching the rind. we're island hopping. island by budding island against the japanese. and so this conference at yalta is to talk about what's going to happen with the peace and to create something called the

nited nations. vandenberg and certainly fellow republicans, but a lot of mocrats as well, know that roosevelt's health is weak. nobody knows how weak it is. he die as couple months later. they don't know what the americans are going to be negotiating. so he stands up in the senate, you saw that speech there where he talks about working together. he had been known throughout his career in the senate as an advocate of american neutrality, talking in that earlier speech about no entangling alliances. that's a line that alexander hamilton his great hero wrote for george washington in his farewell address. now vandenberg stands up and says the time has come for collective action. as he talks about there. for, he propose as post-war

treaty between the allies, the the h, the russians, to guarantee that germany and japan will never again become military threats as they had been in -- twice in the previous 30 years. so here we have the advocate of and japan will no entangling alliances reversing field. some said it was a suggestion of james reston, vandenberg as an old newspaper man was always sharing drafts of his speech with some of his friends in the newspaper business. brian: who was reston? henry: he was "the new york times" washington correspondent, later bureau chief. here's vandenberg proposing a peacetime alliance. and that was -- that marked his reversal of field, his coming out in public now for an american role that had he always shied away from.

and roosevelt was a little bit dismissive of his rival, just before he left for yalta, the white house called and asked for 50 copies of the speech to take a-- along. brian: you quote a loft people. how many of those people did you talk to about vandenberg? henry: didn't get a chance -- i correspondented with allen drury and reston, but didn't get a chance to talk with them. i had the good fortune of being able to catch a lot of people who are still alive who had known vandenberg. from william full bright to former senator to walter, who had been the "chicago tribune" bureau chief. to a number of newspaper reporters. liz car pernt, who had been a press aide to lyndon johnson had been -- carpenter, who had been a press aide to lyndon johnson, had been there when

the republicans agreed on a support. harold, who had been a delegate to the founding of the united nations and later became a perennial presidential candidate but at the time was a rising young republican. brian: you also mentioned james tobin in this book. what role did he play? henry: he was the consultant, i asked him -- was the one who said take out chapter 3, combine chapter 7 and . he gave me a direction on making major cuts to the book. jim's a wonderful writer. he did a biography of ernie yle that won a national book award. and later f.d.r. as he polio. d with he said you need to chop this section. you need to condense this section. he really helped me go from taking out sentences and paragraphs to taking out pages

and chapters to get that manuscript down from 1,000 pages to a manageable size. brian: how did you get polio. he said you need to chop this section. you need to condense this section. your lly hands around who vandenberg was? at what point in this cost sess over the last almost 30 years say i got it? henry: i don't if you ever feel you got t i don't want to speak with that degree of confidence. i lived with him so long i find myself internalizing, i probably bore my friend and family because every time someone has an anecdotes i have a vandenberg-related anecdote to talk about. his younger daughter, elizabeth, who you saw in that brief video, she was still alive in her 80's in connecticut. we became close in her last years. talking with her you could see her father. certainly watching those old news reels, reading his editorials. he wrote 20 years' worth of editorials for the grand rapids herald. where he's not only influencing the league of nations debate

after world war i by sending editorials to henry cab bot lodge who is leading the fight against woodrow wilson over the lead editorials convenant. he also writing about when his first wife dies. writing about some very personal experiences in his papers. it's that exposure that i think helps you internalize the character. brian: that video we looked at where he's sitting with his wife and daughter, how much of that was available? henry: probably more than i looked at. you could go to the national archives to the news reels and keep hunting for him. and see him here and there for these brief clips. brian: that looked like had he done that himself. henry: i'm not sure how that originated. i don't know. brian: that speech in january, at impact did that have on

the senate, the country, the press? what difference did it make? henry: there was a great line one of vandenberg's senate colleagues used where he said, van changes his mind about as often as the average american. just a little earlier. i think what that meant was, he was understanding the need for the united states to change for him to change from his earlier positions. and he had a little bit of credibility that goes with the sinner and became the saint where he's carrying public opinion with him. people say if vandenberg is comfortable with us joining the united nations, and i know where he stood before, he was very wary of these foreign entanglements, it must be the right direction for us. he had that kind of credibility. brian: his 1947 video of him talking about the united nations. before we run that, would you have been surprised back in

those days if he had come out for the united nations? henry: defends how close you were. i think for. so newspaper columnists, they weren't surprised because they saw his evolution from pearl harbor and through the war. we can talk about that as well. if would you have been a kid growing up in grand rapids, you would have been raised on the speeches that called for no entangling alliances, and then, boom, in 1945 you've got this isolationist senator saying, no, we need a post-war treaty and our future is in collective security. brian: watch this 1947 video. >> it took five years to take the world apart. it would not be surprising if it took at least that long to put it together again. the remarkable thing is that the united nations has done so well, so soon. brian: why was he -- i noticed all the quotes in here from the

media. why was he right when he to being internationalist than when he was an isolationist? henry: why was he right? brian: in other words. he flipped. today we'd say -- media's constantly criticizing people who change their minds. henry: there is a wonderful quote that i used from emerson, he was a fan of ralph waldo -- his rom his essay q. essay "self-reliance. speak in hard words what you believe tomorrow even if it contradict everything you say today. conditions change. the u.s. retreating to isolation after world war sr. ad clearly not helped secure the world against the rise of totalitarians in germany, italy, japan. who knows what might -- would have happened if the league of

nations had been funging otherwise. there is no guarantees. clearly it hadn't worked. so something new had to be tried. in that intervening time, after the war, the u.s. was so clearly the dominant global power that even from an economic standpoint our trading relations were too important. vandenberg would say, he would say he was always a nationalist. he had gone from isolation to internationalism, sure. he had always been looking out for america's enlightened self-interest. and that meant we needed other democracies. it was quickly becoming apparent after the war that the nassy and fascist threat -- nazi and fascist threat that created world war ii was being related by a threat from the oviet union. historians can disagree on how dire that threat was, there was

no disagreement an iron curtain had descended across central europe, and suddenly there was only one european power. it was the soviet union. its aspirations appear to be in direct conflict with ours. and we couldn't afford to see democracies fail in western europe. brian: the makeup of the united states senate from the time he came in, 1928, we show 29 on the screen there, and if you look, under the democrats, that's the number that were in the senate. 96 members of the senate during these years. hawaii and alaska had not come in. they didn't come in until late 1959 and 1960. you can see on the screen there that the numbers, for instance, in 1939, there were 69 democrats. right before that there was 75. that there were only -- the early part of his time anti-last part of his time where the republicans were even

close to having any kind of control, what impact did that have him on as a republican in the senate? henry: he had come of age in a city, state, even in a country that was generally voting republican. woodrow wilson became president when there was a three-way split with the boo moose party in taft and teddy roosevelt. vandenberg goes to the senate looking forward to working with herber hoover. hoover really lacked finesse, to state least, with the legislature. he was a brilliant guy who never held elected office. then the stock market crashes in his second year, late in his first year and dooms his presidency. so vandenberg finds himself in opposition when f.d.r. is elected and the democrats in the early 1930's take majority in the senate. he's in opposition for the next dozen years. that means that to get anything done, which often meant

resisting some of franklin roosevelt's initiatives, there needed to be a coalition. he had to reach across the aisle. he really came of age in such a minority that to be effective, whether it's creating a neutrality act or resisting of ship canal going across the peninsula of florida, he needs republican votes and democratic votes. so that gave him an early experience in compromise and coalition building to get anything done. brian: here's some video of a senate hearing. we have covered a lot over the last 40 years. this is a viewpoint behind vandenberg looking at dean acheson, who at the time was secretary of state, 1949. he would have been a democrat. let's watch this and see if there is any -- if it looks like anything we see today. need does t place no

the fact of this treaty unless it nominates itself as an armed aggressor by its own armed aggressor, is that right? >> yes, sir, that is correct. >> secondly, if it's effective only so long as the security council fails to take measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. >> that is repeatedly clear in the treaty itself. >> therefore, if the general membership of the united nations is faithful to its obligations, to the treaty of treaty ed nations, this never becomes op prayive in action at all. >> that is entirely true. brian: how close were they off screen? henry: they worked together over many years. they were not close.

vandenberg forged a very close relationship with george marshall, who was acheson's predecessor as secretary of state. and with marshall's under secretary, robert lovett. when acheson came in, they had a mutual respect, but they were -- acheson became secretary of state, you mentioned this is in 1949, that's after president truman has been elected in his own right, surprising everyone in 1948. and after the democrats have retaken the majority in the senate and the congress. and so there is a sense on the administration's part that we don't need vandenberg quite so much anymore. and so where marshall and lovett had worked closely with vandenberg and needed his support all the way through, when it came to a treaty, talking about nato in this hearing, they still needed vandenberg.

but acheson never developed the same warmth. in fact, lovett had famously stopped by the hotel, vandenberg's home, for a martini after work as they the nato treaty. and in 1949, vandenberg writes to his wife and says dean acheson stopped by and -- as th. and in 1949, though he were trying to rescind kindle some of that same old spirit. it's just not there. these were also two very large egos. in fact, i interviewed clark clifford, harry truman's long-time aide. he said part of truman's genius was being willing to sort of stand aside and let these two big egos hash things out and setpolicy. -- set-spolicy. they were forced by circumstance to work together but they never had the warmth

vandenberg had. brian: you went to the university of michigan. when you got out what did do you right away? henry: about five years in the newspaper business. i was a reporter and then editor for a weekly newspaper in plymouth, michigan, between detroit and ann arbor. brian: what year did you with go to work for the meijer corporation? henry: 1978. brian: you have been active ever since? henry: we don't have a a at that timical in our business. but hi the freedom in early stages to do research both whendy a biography of my grandfather, and when i was working in the vandenberg papers. brian: how did you get somebody to publish this book? henry: i was -- i operated during all those years with the confidence that it was a story that had to be told. and that it wouldlike end up with the university press. commercial appeal would be limited. but it -- people would recognize the value of it. and so i had some preliminary

discussions with the university of press over the years -- with the university press over the years. and then became acquainted with an agent here in washington who submitted it to some other presses, including university of chicago. d university of chicago -- brian: how anxious were they to buy the book? what year did you have the contract? henry: had the contract in 2016. and how do we measure how eagle' publisher is to publish a book? i think they recognized merit in it. they understood as a university press that they publish a lot of things they hope will reach a general audience. chicago probably does more titles for general audiences than most university presses. but they recognize that the -- there would be some market for it. if i could do my part to help

promote that, we might have something that would work. brian: how much of the research did you do yourself? henry: didn't have any research assistants. i had these papers that i inherited that would have saved me weeks. so i visited the truman library but didn't have to go there for a week's worth of research. this is in an age before digitalization. i had that base of materials to work with. and then of course did all of the work in vandenberg's primary papers. and all of the interviews my sefment brian: have you collected vandenberg things? henry: i have come into a few things. i have his binder. it has nothing in it. but his binder marked confidential from the united nations conference. i have the ashtray and campaign button and things like that. then one that i really cherish, i was interviewing his -- one of his grandsons who had

retired and was raising flowers n maui and the -- and he and his -- he and his wife are both ceased now, but he was interested in talking with me about his grandfather with whom he had lived briefly when his mother went through a divorce and they were in washington. as the grandson and i are alking, his wife excuses herself to make some sandwiches, and he excuses himself. i'm not sure where he's gone. but when we conclude our herself to make some sandwiches, and he interview an hour later, i find a parpe bag on the seat of my rental car, and in it is a bronze plaque that had sat on vandenberg's desk throughout his time in the senate that said this too shall pass. harry truman had, the buck stops here.

vandenberg had this too shall pass that consoled him and reminded him of things that went beyond the political strife of the mom. brian: if you went to grand there right now, are public opportunities to see-duve a statue there or anything? since you have been involved in this? you made a bigger issue for the community? henry: a friend approached me a few years ago and we raised the money to put a statue in downtown grand rapids. that helped a little bit with visibility. the ford there public opportunities to see-duve a statue museum, the g ford presidential museum has had temporary exhibits where they used the vandenberg material. but there is still no home. brian: want to show you a photograph that we have that is in your book. two people, first one is vandenberg. the second one is young man named -- henry: gerry ford ford. brian: how old would he have been? henry: 30 years old.

brian: are you on the board of the ford foundation there in grand rapids. if i read right you are currently vice chairman? henry: correct. brian: were you chairman at one point? henry: i was not. that was in the family for many years. now the chairman is red, who is a person here in washington. brian: how big an impact is it that jerry ford is from grand rapids and you have this museum there? henry: for people of middle age and older, of my generation, we grew up with jerry ford as our congressman. the only congressman we ever knew. he went to congress before i was born. then became president in 1974. so he -- he's one of these figures that we almost risk taking for granted until he became president. and we realized how momentous his brief administration was as a point in american history.

but he got his start through the offices of arthur vandenberg. brian: historian we have had on here moved to grand rapids recently to do a book on gerald r. ford. have you been involved in that at all? henry: richard and i have a chance to get together occasionally. so he tantalizings me with some of the research he's uncovering on president ford. i have been privileged to be privy to some of that. and it promises to be a terrific book. brian: how much does gerald ford and vandenberg represent your own feelings in politics? henry: i grew up in an age where my political awareness i trace back to 1966. because that was the year hi a student teacher very interested in politics and we went down to our local tv station as election results were coming in. it was a big thrill for a 14-year-old junior high school student. that was the -- what may have

been the peak year for what we would today call liberal republicans. there was scranton in pennsylvania. our own george romney in michigan. percy in illinois. brook in massachusetts. all these names that people may or may not remember were all -- most of them were elected or all in office that year. that, i think, was part of my conditioning as an adolescent from a republican part of the world but admire people, be aware of people who had really broad ranging and from a of the world generally moderate outlooks on public interest. brian: i don't know this can be done, i want to go down the list of things that you say that vandenberg was involved in. and ask you if he hadn't been involved what would the difference have been, and directly how much did he impact it. the federal deposit insurance

corporation you talked about earlier. what if he hadn't been involved at all. would that have come along? henry: i think eventually it would have. because the idea has such simplemarlte. he prosed it -- simple merit. he proposed it -- there was banking crisis in detroit right after the stock market crashed. detroit was ground zero for bank holding companies facing collapse. vandenberg as the senator from michigan was working with andrew mellon, secretary of the treasury in the hoover administration, trying to keep those banks from collapsing. that meant avoiding a run on the banks. how do you avoid a run on the banks? you insure deposits so people don't worry their money is in jeopardy. he pushed that. whoever and mellon resisted t then roosevelt resisted it. it would not have happened when without 1933

vandenberg pushing it. i think it would have happened eventually. but vandenberg was the catalyst and spark in overcoming roosevelt's resistance at that time. brian: how about nato? henry: nato i think would have happened. again these are all suppositions. but the -- there were two parts to nato. one agreeing to participation. and vandenberg we have to back up a little bit. vandenberg had been -- when the united nations was formed, vandenberg was very protective of the idea of a pan american union. of mutual security among -- descending from the monroe doctrine of mutual security among the western hemisphere nations. he and george marshall went to a conference in rio where they created that treaty that became a template a couple years later for the nato treaty. so vandenberg set the stage for

it even though i think it probably would have come. his stamp of approval was crew shafment the second part of nato was -- was crucial. the second part of nato was of ng the appropriation funds to help the pure peaans rebuild their -- the europeans rebuild their militaries. these are countries who had been occupied, in the case of britain, devastated, during world war ii, and their militaries were in of dire to straits. vandenberg not only got nato approval, but the last thing he did before -- as he was facing surgery in 1949, was to push through the military appropriations plan for nato. and that would not have been as effective had he not been there. brian: in the senate 1928 to 1951, what about the marshall plan? what kind of impact did he have on the marshall plan? if he hadn't been there, would it still have happened?

henry: something would have happened because there was a general recognition, again, that the united states had to be -- it was in our interest to be helpful in rebuilding the european economies. state denberg took department proposal that called for many more billions of dollars in appropriations and scaled it down enough to make it sailable to the congress and the american people. and it might have floundered for some time had he not had the skill to set stage for it. the marshall plan hearings may still have been the longest, most extensive in the history of the senate. his idea was, you get people onboard by listening to everybody. wearing down the opposition. and so he was tinkering all the way through there with a the particulars of the bill. he made it more digestable. i think these things probably would have happened, but in a

watereddown way that may not have been as effective as it was with his leadership. brian: did you try to translate $17 billion of the marshall plan spent back there to today's dollars? henry: i did and i have forgotten what that looks like. brian: it's $100-some billion. henry: it was a significant portion of our -- it was a noticeable portion of our of th plan spent back there to today's dollars? henry: i did and i have forgotten g.d.p. at the time. brian: you have a quote in the book, a lot of presidents have said things like this, this is from 1936, it was f.d.r., your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign war. why do presidents say that so often and violate it? henry: they say it because when we're anxious as an american people about our future, we want an assurance that we're going to elect somebody who is going to keep us at peace. brian: that was in 1936 during the election. henry: right. hitler hen you've got

and mussolini already in hitler and mussolini already in power. mussolini has gone to -- has invaded ethiopia. japanese have invaded china, japanese have invaded china, manchuria, set up a puppet regime there. hitler is re-arming and threatening his neighbors. his march into the rhineland at that point. o there is war in the air. everyone conscious of world war r. and what a -- world war i and now roosevelt is aiming for a repeal of the neutrality act. he's the president. doesn't want his arms tied if something should happen. vandenberg wants to resist that which forces roosevelt into a corner. and says no, no, we may come to the aide of some future point allies, but we're not 2011 doc.

can people allies, but we're no going to send our boys over to the foreign war. brian: here's more video from the year buy that today? henry: great question. we'll make sure it's available. ian: let's go to a clip from america's senator, as you call this. >> i want the republican party to be liberal enough to box with the time, dare new answers to new problems, and to use the power and strength and initiative of government to help citizens to help themselves when they confront problems beyond their own resources and their own control. drop. the prices to brian: what do you think he would have thought of him as a person if had you to deal with him on a day-to-day basis living in grand rapids? henry: it's a great question. i think if i were a young man

in the street, i would come to that conclusion. we started out with about this pompous character. doesn't want to give me the time of day. i talked to an elderly gentleman who in his youth had been city editor of the grand rapids herald after vandenberg went to washington. he said vandenberg would come back a couple times a year to the old newspaper office and put his feet up on somebody's desk and pontificate what what was happening in the world. he didn't suffer fools gladly. he might not have give me the time of day. yet if i were old enough to develop an acquaintance, i would get past that veneer. he had a lot of friends in the newspaper community and in the congress who he was almost beloved in a sense because he was -- he was one of them. so it would almost be a matter

of perspective. i caught that even interviewing journalists. the ones who had gotten to know him almost revered him. the others who had more glancing context saying, geez, he wouldn't tell me anything. he wouldn't give me the time of day. i don't know where i would have fit in in that relationship. brian: here's something that you don't expect. you didn't know this was coming. i just want to run it for the fun of t it's only 30 seconds. let's go. ♪ [dog barking] >> with more selection. puppies are even more lovable. at meijer.

brian: did you have anything to do with that commercial? henry: i saw it before it was broadcast. i can't take any creative credit for it. brian: how does someone like you, it's rare we see somebody that's been a c.e.o. and executive chairman, write a book in the middle of running a corporation, how did you do it? how did you figure out how to do it? henry: it took me 26 years. tolerant family. and colleagues at work who understood that this was a part of my life. i don't play golf. i have had more than a few vacations that involved little side trips to talk to somebody who knew vandenberg. ut literally it's also a reflection on how unproductive i have been as an author. brian: where did you set up your operation and how did you

catalog everything? henry: that's a great question. i work at both a home office and then the -- all those -- my vandenberg papers and a urgeoning library of american foreign policy in the 20th century is in a windowless storage room at our corporate office. and then because i started at an age before digitalization, before google, all of my -- most of my research was on index cards and recipe boxes. so i can't wait to write another book where it's not going to be quite such a primitive method. brian: your own family. how kids, where did you meet your wife? henry: i have five children. 32 to ge in age from 10. -- second is marriage. my wife is a fiction writer.

we met when -- as western michigan university where she was reading from her collection of short stories. it was published about 16 years ago. brian: what's the most important thing we need to know about arthur vandenberg? henry: two things. we want one, we want our politicians to change as circumstances change. he was capable of doing that. and two, how critical it is to a democracy that we compromise. and for him, compromise was almost an art form. he saw that as fundamental to the kind of government we need. brian: anybody that you met in your research that you want to

write a book about? hendrik: it would be a lot of people that i won't write a book about, but i would love to. william fulbright. rian: why? hendrik: he was, very early as a congressman and senator, coming-of-age after world war ii in public office and helping try to define america's role in the world and, famously, in my own youth, became the most important critic of the war in vietnam and really saw the consequences of the building blocks that he and vandenberg had been a part of, being in a sense perhaps misinterpreted in getting us into a quagmire. brian: our guest hendrik meijer, the man in the middle of the american century. thank you very much for joining us. hendrik: thank you. it has been a pleasure. >> for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org.

q&a programs are also available as c-span podcasts. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. isit ncicap.org] >> if you enjoyed this week's "q&a" interview, here are some like.programs you may chuck hagel. ami horowitz on the united nations. and betty about her key moments in senate history. watch these anytime or search our video library at c-span.org. >> president trump will be attending the farm bureau convention this afternoon. we will have live coverage on c-span in just over an hour. a look at a tweet and a picture by congresswoman marsha blackburn showing members of the tennessee congressional delegation on their way to

board air force one with the president. she writes, american farmers are the backbone of this nation and i look forward to hearing how he will help with health care, broadband expansion and regulatory reform. the first time in 25 years the sitting president has attended the farm bureau annual meeting. chuck ft to right we see diane black, marsha blackburn. we'll take you to nashville at 4:10 p.m. eastern time. after the speech the president will head to atlanta to attend the college football championship game. and on capitol hill, the house meeting at 6:30 p.m. eastern to begin the quorum call to bring house members to the floor to start the second session of the 115th congress. legislative work is expected to start tomorrow when the house takes up a resolution related to the protests in iran. and on thursday, the house will

debate whether to continue the foreign intelligence surveillance act which is about to run out. we will have live coverage of the house here on c-span. >> tonight on "the communicators" we're on location at bell labs in new jersey for the first of two part interview series. bell labs is one of the premiere research facilities in the world providing work in radio astronomy, lasers. bell labs president talks about what's new in communications technology and research. >> the problem we have is we presented with you a ton of data and not knowledge -- to think better. and so in the next era we will connect everything, your environment, you, infrastructure, buildings, bridges, cities. so we can actually see what's going on and automate that. think of your house will be jetson-like, automatically clean for you. energy will be automatically managed for you. your car may automatically

driven for you. all that requires a change how you build networks. the cloud has to build into the network to make that work. cloud will come of age. the network will become valued again and the devices will be everywhere. on you, in you, your car, infrastructure. so it's a big change coming. i think we will see the increase in productivity. >> watch "the communicators" tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> next, a discussion about ideas for countering terrorist recruitment and how cities can avoid violent extremism. the communication and leadership in policy hosted this discussion. it's an hour and 20 minutes.