can get rid of that. and we can judge islam by the way muslims practice in america. how it to judge islam by is being practiced in iran and saudi arabia. because wherever it is a majority, it is different. when they are in the minority, even in the koran -- lie and slander and act like you like peace. a religionling with that teaches that lying is a virtue. >> islamists are notoriously hostile for people that renounce their ideology. you must be a real foreign their side. have you personally experienced violence or threats? i have been told i will die

if i go to egypt. the only country i can visit in the middle east is israel. this is the only country i can visit and stay alive. >> what should we do in syria? sense?king any side make >> they have huge armies. if they want to save the syrian people, let them do it. they are both bad. [applause] shiites and sunnis are both

terrorists. they both want to kill us. >> can you comment on recent events where a jewish-based university reversed an invitation to give an address at commencement? >> i will tell you something. people are not standing up and inviting people who are like me. let me tell you something. it is time for us non-jews to stand in the front line. we should not leave the jews to do that job. it is our job. it's the job of christians. . am not speaking out of course, i would have liked them to keep the invitation and

not resend it. it's a shame. why then understand jews have done enough fighting for their life. against radical islam. it is time for the rest of the world to wake up. >> can you name any prominent leaders that understand and give voice to the threat? >> to the threat we are facing. >> i think there are republicans that are caused -- called racists and bigots. unfortunately, we have neutered our politicians. we have a lot of great men and women. we have sarah palin. [applause] we don't have a shortage of good

politicians. a lot of people are angry at our politicians. you know who i am angry at? us who don't go and vote. election, the reason mitt romney did not vote is because a lot of christians were saying we don't want to vote for a mormon. this is ridiculous. person by his character and the man had very good character, very good family. and what did we get? that is what we got. so we are getting what we deserve. >> when shiites and sunnis fight and kill one another, should we do anything besides sit back, make popcorn, and enjoy the spectacle? >> absolutely. way, i am totally against going into iraq and doing

nationbuilding. excuse me. we are becoming a poor country. we have a lot of poor in america. we don't nationbuilding other countries. let their muslim brethren build their nations. they have plenty of money instead of sending it here. let them fix their own country. why does the west give money to islamic terror groups like the muslim brotherhood, al qaeda, thomas, and others? -- hamas and others? >> i think it started when egypt had the peace treaty with israel. it is like an insurance policy. egypt is a poor country and here is somebody going to fight israel. i think that is more or less the reason that we give money to

egypt. that is the truth. we don't admit it, but it's the truth. should support israel, absolutely financially. israel has been abandoned by the world. look at what the united nations is doing to israel. we are helping egypt so they don't attack israel. bank,za and the west don't give them a dime. encourage thema to do the terrorism. support them or leave them to fend for themselves and get a job. they need a job. the palestinian people need jobs, they don't need terror.

>> [inaudible] arabia is the most dangerous country in this world. in my opinion, more dangerous than iran. you know why? because at least around flights -- its own man fights for it. has other nations fight through terror. that scares me more than countries that are upfront. they tell you i am your enemy and i'm going to kill you. saudi arabia says i am your allied. go fly airplanes into buildings. it is the most dangerous nation in the middle east. islam whereme of mohammed came from. >> why do you suppose the muslim

slaves don't revolt? the one billion muslim slaves. because when you put somebody , for a very long time, in a prison, if you open the gate, they don't run right away. like me, when i came to america, i did not get it right away. it took me a long time. ofis also the power oppression of society around you if you live in the muslim world. it is different from being a muslim and you live here. ands easy to dump islam adopt american values. when you're living there, the social pressure on you to go pray and social pressure is very hard. it is changing, however. and i am seeing some hope that islam will go dormant again.

liket will not go dormant -- it takes decades for cultures to change. a human being can change quicker than a culture. startew decades, if we drilling for oil in america, saudi arabia can drink its oil. [applause] and that is why anyone in america who is against drilling, theyst coal and against -- are trying to say the environment is going to suffer if we drill for oil? are you kidding me? look at saudi arabia and qatar, they have the most beautiful beaches of the red sea. they are drilling right and left. now it is like 75.

i don't see that the camels are dying in saudi arabia from the drilling. they are flourishing. the red sea and arabian sea are full of fish. of? theare we afraid liberals are lying to you. agenda is to stop the sterilization of america. havewant us to go back and the world catch up with us. that is their real motivation. they can't be honest. they are like the islamic ideology. they use lying to reach their goals. exactly like islam. i would have more respect for liberals if they tell you their agenda. honestly, let's have an honest debate. they call you names just like

islam says that you should go kill yourself. you are a racist and a bigot and an islam of folk. >> [no audio] [inaudible] ophobe. >> [inaudible] >> it was hard. islam for a long time can demoralize you. it was a burden. booke a chapter in my last called "a muslim's burden." guilt andway your frees you. that is how we become in christianity. in islam, it is culture of

shaming and control. it is the culture of putting a burden on an individual. if god came down the same as -- god came down to save us. in islam, we have to save allah's reputation. it is the duty of the muslim to carry the burden of mohammed and defend him. it is exactly the opposite. as soon as my mind cleared, -- i went a few years to certain churches and and i find judaism and christianity as one in my eyes. i don't know why. christians don't see that. i see it. because christianity could never have happened without judaism. i look at the judaic christian

altar as one. -- culture as one. i was watching tv one sunday morning and flipping channels. there were preachers, one after the other. and they were praying for the whole world. they were praying for peace on earth. that just struck me. , my god, my religion curses. i grew up cursing. the friday prayer, the muslim teacher was it and curse and get the sword out. god destroy the jews and infidels. and people go out of the mosques and kill christians as a result. peace. man so at i became a better person.

that is why it was not difficult for me to become christian and support israel. [applause] it lifted my guilt. >> i have one more question for you and we want to make sure you have time to sign books. challenging one. you say you are not against muslims, but against their ideology. how can you separate the two? you are not holding people accountable for their actions. ideology does not kill people, people kill people. >> i agree in a way, but we human beings are fairly weak. let me tell you, we are all born half good and half bad. depending on our religion, we either strengthen the good or strengthen the bad. muslims are really the victims of islam. they have been brought up in an ideology -- we don't even know

that lying and slander against jews is evil. we think it is a virtue. me, if i go and say in the muslim world today, if i make a speech about forgiveness between jews and arabs, i would be shot dead on the spot in the street. america sermon and about forgiveness between jews and arabs would give me a nobel peace prize, you know? , but one same thing culture looks at it as evil and one culture looks at it as a virtue. that is the problem. muslims are the victim of an eagle ideology. [applause] thank you. [capti >> next, a discussion on how sports can lead to a national

dialogue about race in society. then live at 7:00 a.m. eastern, "washington journal." and later, a group of women judges discuss the challenges of row make impartial in today's political climate. > this is the largest, our endowment is pretty healthy, just shy of $600 million. now, to put that in perspective, vanderbilt is in our peer group, and they are at $6 billion. harvard, which represents, you know, the pinnacle of the nation's endowments. is at $34 billion, and they have a $6 billion campaign going on right now just to put it in perspective. if we are going to aspire to have that type of excellence, those types of facilities, to produce that type of excellence on our campus, then we have to have that type of investment, so it's my responsibility now, to be the 17th president's

responsibility when he or she is named, to go out and to ensure that we expand those revenue streams. >> howard university interim president dr. wayne a.i. frederick on the challenges facing the predominantly black university, sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's "q&a." next, a look at how sports can lead to a dialogue about race and society. some of the topics addressed include the racial comments of former l.a. clippers owner donald sterling and the controversy over the national football league's washington redskins. among the speakers are former nba player kareem abdul-jabbar and former dallas cowboys wide receiver michael irvin, from the u.s. conference of mayors' annual meeting in dallas, this is just over an hour. >> things, matthew. i hope -- thanks matthew.

i hope you guys are seated. we will have a really dynamic panel. i know you had a good time over the weekend it we are looking forward to it. one, wee on monday for have business to conduct and it is this really impressive panel. >> let me give a little background. from jackie robinson integrating baseball, sports played a pivotal role in advancing civil rights. nba commissioner adam silver's swift and decisive response to la clippers owner donald sterling's racial comments makes clear that in today's society institutionalized racism is not welcome.

in light of both events and the long-standing battle against institutional racism in sports, we are taking the action today to discuss the social and political implications of racism in sports. through the interactive conversation, panelists will tackle questions that ask white racism pervades sports and society. we are convening today to learn and to discuss how sports should serve communities and how we together can become agents of change in our cities with our sports teams. before we move on to our panel i would like to introduce a leader in addressing the intersection between sports and cities. indianapolis mayor greg ballard is chair of the mayors professionals sports alliance. the mission of the alliance is to share among mayors resources

and information on issues related to professional sports and to work effectively with leagues, players, and owners. give around of applause to mayor ballard. [applause] >> good morning. mr. president, distinguished guests sports bring people , together. they bring communities together. certainly during the deep layoff -- layoff -- playoff run when athletes do good work in the community, sports bring nations together. how many of us gasped at portugal's last second goal last night? sports can also divide us. there can be a meanness and ugliness as is the case in this clippers episode. i was prior -- proud that the

mayor's sports alliance stood with our president kevin johnson as he worked with the players and the alumni as they addressed the situation. i do applaud the nba for taking swift and decisive action. ultimately sports organizations , are part of who we are. they represent us as a community. despite the elite athleticism we witness, we really want them to embody character and compassion as a community. that includes the respect for all of our citizens. diversity has always been about respect. respect was lacking in the clippers' organization. sports mirror society insofar as inclusion and respect has come at such a great price.

such is the life of jackie robinson. it is our responsibility to continue the march. i look forward to the panel. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you, mayor ballard. i going to introduce the panelists and we will have a serious conversation. our first panelist that i would like to bring out to give a male mayoral role -- perspective is our very own michael letter. philadelphia has the reputation for being a passionate sports talent. you can hear boos all over the county. it has a long history of sports as it is spurred on serious conversations about race.

former phillies manager ben chapman was one of the loudest voices opposing jackie robinson's integration to baseball. let's give a very loud round of applause to michael nutter. [applause] >> secondly, i would like to bring out -- go ahead, have a seat. you are good. secondly, i would like to bring out a person who was originally scheduled to moderate. i thought he would give a better perspective sitting on the panel. we switched places. i did know i was going to lose my voice. roland martin is an influential reporter and commentator.

he has a long career at bet and cnn. most recently, tv one. he has his own program called "news one now." he is from houston. --went to texas and dam texas a and m. he is a journalist with a masters degree in christian communications. he has written several books. let's give around of applause for roland martin. [applause] you're good. all right. since we are in dallas, this is for you. i get a chance to introduce a dallas cowboy legend. this is a surprise guest. we did not put him on the schedule intentionally.

so mayor rawlins would be surprised. he led the dallas cowboys to three super bowl championships. he is one of 17 children from fort lauderdale, went to the the university of miami. he won a championship there. one of the greatest wide receivers to ever play the game. let's give around of applause to michael irvin. [applause] >> that me say two hello to everybody. >> most of you know that michael is also a personality and commentators on football on a regular basis. he has got that personality that

is just magnetic. it is awesome to have him here. i don't know if you get a chance to see his acceptance speech into the hall of fame, it was one of the most amazing acceptance speeches of all time. one more round of applause for the playmaker. [applause] this is the biggest introduction i'm ever going to make. his is not exciting, who is about to come out? you should clap before i even say his name. just let them know that we love him before we say his name. [applause] just listen to this. i did not want to go long. listen to this for a minute. six-time nba championship. this man won six of them.

six-time most valuable player. 19-time nba all-star. hall of fame inductee. played with the bucs in milwaukee. won a championship. went out west to l.a. and won five more. from new york, went to ucla, played under john wooden. won three championships in college. if you add those up, that is nine. [laughter] the man is a freshman and was not allowed to play varsity sports or he would've had a 10th. in college he was so effective they literally changed the rules because he was there. this is a rule-changer in a real way. he is a legend. he is also a new york times best-selling author. he has written books on history and civil rights. including "black profiles in books, a a host of

documentary has been made about one of his books. two time naacp image award winner. get on your feet and give a round of applause for the one and only the greatest player to , ever play the game, kareem abdul-jabbar. [applause] i feel like we can all go home. i feel like we have been to church and we have not said a word yet. look at kareem for just a second. dignified and distinguished. what makes him so amazing is not only the arguably best player to play the game, it is what he did off the court.

for him to be here today with these panelists is amazing. this is often something that people do not know about him. he is not an out front person. last night, he took mayors at cash out to dinner. give him a round of applause for treating our mayors to dinner last night. [applause] are you ready? we are going to get it going. we're going to have this panel discussion. i'm going to stand up here because i am losing my voice. i want to throw the first question out to mayor nutter. mayor what was your gut reaction , when you heard the donald sterling tape? was have to tell you, i really stunned. at first, my folks told me about it and i said, i mean is this , true? did somebody really say this? you have all these tapes and

youtube and all that and elected officials know about that. maybe it was doctored. how does somebody say all of that? so i watched it. , i knew it was nine or 10 minutes. i'm probably not go watch the whole thing. it is the epitome of an accident. it was fascinating. every piece -- it just went on and on and on. at the end i was disgusted. magic, you want to talk about people? you are the owner of a team. you are like an adult. you are supposed to be responsible. you know, i had some other thoughts. this is a family program. [laughter] it was insane. obviously it is been found to be

, true. it is legit. we know the end of the story. we have to give our president certainly huge recognitions for the role that he played in the nba and the commissioner certainly handled it properly. but it was a stunning moment, i think in america. >> awesome. so kareem, question for you. same question: you know, you wrote a very impressive time magazine piece, which was awesome. what was your first reaction? and there are probably going to be a surprise with your comments but go ahead, kareem. >> my first reaction was surprise because i had worked for mr. sterling. i coached the clippers in the year 2000... he invited me to his daughter's wedding. i had no idea exactly what was going on. but i also, because of my association, i know elton taylor. i know what he was complaining about.

i was confused not knowing exactly which set of facts mr. sterling stood behind. and then when his words came out, it was so obvious and shocking and just disgusting. all of those things wrapped in one to find that type of sentiment on someone who relies on black americans for so much of his success and public profile, it was a amazing. i just couldn't believe it, that someone could have that much bigotry inside and think that it was okay. >> michael, what was your gut reaction when you first heard it? >> i was hurt, you know, hurt for certainly the players on the court and for the fans because let's be real here the clippers,

they have been waiting a long time for this. where they are right now, they have been waiting a long time and there have been a lot of fans, a lot of loyal fans and to have doc rivers, to have chris paul, guys that really are such outstanding african americans that represent the best we have to offer and then to point out and attack one of the best we have to offer in magic johnson, i was hurt. i was hurt for all of those other people. i won't say i was totally shocked because i truly believe and i understand we still have the remnants of some of these still left. so, i am not shocked, but i was hurt, and we have heard some things prior to this about donald sterling and the bible says out of the mouth

speaks. as he kept going on, i think we heard more of his heart. i was shocked and hurt for all of those people. >> roland, i will ask you the same question for everybody out there watching him do what he did. he does not have add. he may have that, too. but he is just a twitter -- this man tweets like nobody's business. i want you to know that he is paying attention. >> my reaction was focus were all surprised by it. i think people were more surprised by the fact that he said it and to the degree that he did. but the reason i was in some way pleased with it, because we are living in absolute denial because we have too many people who walk around going, a black president, it's the post-racial america. you have eric bowlin on fox news

who says this stuff about racism, it doesn't even exist. go to the neo website and you will see case after case after case after case of examples after president obama was elected. and so what happens is we all of the sudden act as if things are changing. you see black ceos, mayors and president and this has been wiped out and when doctor king said in chaos where do we go from here? what do we do about what is in somebody's heart. for him to be a team owner is no shock. you have a city council woman in lamar, texas who was recorded saying, we need to get those blacks off of the school board and she refuses to apologize. she is unapologetic saying i said it and we need to get those blacks off of the school board. so, it causes people to go: wait a minute. we have to con front the reality of race in america.

from akron, ohio, the akron beacon journal wrote a whole series of race and offering a city-wide conversation. part of this is because what we love to do in america, we love to not have that brutally honest discussion. we want to have the nice, suite, we-all-get-along conversations without realizes people who own businesses, who are elected officials who might be in charge of having black folks who work for them but have a hardcore iss view on the issue of race. it causes a lot of people to force themselves to say, we might want to examine ourselves and it forces the nba to have to answer some questions as to when you get all of these examples of this owner and the issue of race ov over the years, you were silent about it and said nothing, including that major housing lawsuit that he had to pay the

money out and the league did nothing. >> kareem, i am going to come back to you. i think most of you know, kareem went to college in the '60s when civil rights were at the top of his game and you played professional sports '60s and '7 '70s. tell us: are we at the end of an era, or help us connect with what you were going through then and where you think we are today. >> well, i think what has happened is when we had the fact that we had the legal means to come back, racism, instituti institutionalized racism, a lot of black americans said, okay. now we have the tools to achieve something. but it has taken us decades to achieve those things that we had the tools to work on. and when it comes to working on what's in people's hearts and their minds with regard to the

inferiority of people who do not look like them, we have a very long way to go. even though we have these tools, we have a long way to go because a lot of people do not understand their own bigotry. it's so endemic to the human experience that to matoo many people don't get it when they are intentionly affected by racism and do racist acts, they are not even aware of it. so we still have a very long way to go. >> the position is properly 1955, the montgomery bus boycott begins. you go to the 1960, students of north carolina, the jobs in freedom on august 28th, 1963. civil rights act, voting rights act. nix on gets elected. southern strategy but affirmative action comes in. in a period of 13 years, the country was transformed if you

use 1968 as the marker of so-called full freedom for african-americans, that's 46 years. right now, 45 and a half years. 1968, so you say april 4th, 1968, and affirmative, arthur fletcher, nixon, so use '68 so-called full freedom for black folks. a 46 year period. i am 45. i will be 46 in november. so we walk around as if, oh, my, things have changed and we have amazing freedom but in the history of the country, african-americans view '68, which we know was a false year anyway because you had the issue in boston and other cities that came up with desegregation and boston. 46 years of so-called freedom. sol when you exup and down it beyond donald sterling and his comments about race and expend the issue of housing and economics and inclusion, you go

beyond that, you will see that, yes, you've come a long way. we are only talking about 46 years of so-called full freedom and so if you think that we somehow have gotten over the issue of race, we have to be delusional because it didn't happen in 46 years and the same way in south africa where celebrate nelson mandela's passing where you still have south africans who are black, still don't have access to power, economically and politically. they might be presidents of the countries but they don't control capital. >> i will ask you both the same question, i think most of you remember a philadelphia eagles ball player who was video recorded saying the n word. what are your thoughts? michael, you are the mayor of the city. >> a couple of things, i am going to what you talked about '68 and being 45 years but i

will address the riley cooper situation and how i addressed it because that's my job every sunday and thursday to talk about the things that goes on, the things that go on sports. riley cooper, i had watched and riley has been playing ball for a lot of years. one of the things i talked about, i was just coming from a basketball camp with my son in las vegas. as we walked by the pool, they had music blasting saying the n word 50 different ways to sunday, and everybody was rocking and having a great time. and riley cooper steps in a club, he steps out in an angering situation and drops the n word and here we go, of course, saying everything about riley cooper. i thought first of all, and i said it then and i will say it now. first of all, we have to take responsibility as african-americans for injecting the word out there and making it

okay. now, riley cooper said it in a moment of heat. in a moment of heat. words already in your spirit through the songs you are listening to and in a moment of letting the word go. do i count him as a racisracist? i don't think so. the man has been around people all of his life. rich incarnitos situation is different in miami because i think that's what the word was used and how it was used back in the day. he used the word as a systematic way to break down another way. now that is what i call racism: a systematic way of breaking down the other man. now that's not tokerable [applause.] i want y'all to know athletes are not smart? look at these two up there. i am sitting next to the dictionary.

kareem abdul-abbar knows the meaning of every word. this is what drives me crazy, the former athlete because people don't give athletes enough credit for what they do, their perspectives. these are great samples. >> put him on the spot. kareem and i were on a street car in san francisco, mayor lee. we were getting some award and riding around looking the whole time like can you quit looking? we were riding around and then i said -- i said tell me something about the great walls of china. i was just trying to it be funny. this man said, did you know the rock was a cuellar ry built? i was like the great wall of china?

true story. so mayer nutter, same topic because you had to deal with it, head-on. >> yeah, i did. and my reaction was swift, aggressive, and negative. and i saw that tape, and we put out a -- we put out a statement that said that he -- he needed to clean it up. he needed to fix it. and i think quite honestly, as i saw it, i was left with the impression that it wasn't the first time in his life that he had used that word. and so that calls symbol question a whole host of other issues, and, you know, the team tried to deal with it. all sides of, you know, he suddenly had to go away. it was never really clear. but i think time to get him out

of town, out of the situation. you know, philly is not a -- like irvin because he always loved playing in philadelphia. fans are passionate. it's not an over-reaction kind of town but there was a lot of reaction to that, to a player. they were home. they weren't on the field. it was off, but, you know, it was a very, very negative reaction to it. and, you know, i have some thoughts about, you know, how it was handled and whether it was completely handled properly, but, you know, season started. there wasn't much stuff. he went on to have a pretty good season. and i am not going to sit here and say that all is forgotten. i think obviously, you ask the question. people remember. he is trying to get past it. but, you know, when i see him on t.v. or if i am at the game, i

hear his name, i immediately remember that. so he's got to deal with that. >> mayor, we have a false reality, a false discussion about race. here is what it has evolved in to. riley cooper, racist, not a racist. >> right. right. right. >> you watch the cable news shows and it's the exact same thing. donald sterling conversation and many other. >> sure. >> it becomes racist/not a racist. >> right. >> as if there is nothing in between those two. >> right. >> so what happens is, folks begin to say, a race racist? and the people defended said, no. i've known them. i have lived with them. we hung out. he is not a racist, as if there is nothing that is in between that deals with how we have grown up. it deals with our perceptions. it deals with, look. i make this example. these athletes. but there is nothing that pisses me off and i am rocking my texas

a & m gear and somebody says when did you play ball there? hell, i didn't play ball [applause.] now the first question is not: did you graduate? or what did you major in? i was playing golf when a dude said, how was it -- jackie sherrill, i had just written a column two weeks earlier for the fort worth star-telegram. the headline was "no, i am not a ball player." and so my brother pulled me aside. i have a 5 iron in my hand and my brother is going, oh, my god, please don't ask it. yes even respond. we finally, got finished to the tee he goes i don't know why i asked that question. yes, you do. so what happens is, we have perceptions, and we have beliefs

and a lot of them are based on race. if i see a 6' 5" white guy automatically don't assume he played basketball. i just don't. so what happens is when we talk about race, we have to acknowledge that there is something in between you are a raci racist/you are not a racist because now it brings into question how our mothers and fathers raise the us, our friends around us. when you talk about the race, the king day in del way, always black and white and hispanic asian students. >> they say we get along great. i say this is a bunch of bs here so i said, let me ask y'all a question: who do you eat lunch with? and they went, what do you mean? railro i said, who do you eat lunch with? and when i asked that question, all of the sudden, the butt

dancing. i use it on t.v. when you kick them they start doing this here. i call that butt dancing. they start butt dancing, the whole room. i say you can't tell me y'all get along and you live in this wonder race-neutral world because who you choose to go to lunch with defines your view. i went to the parents and say who eats at your house for dinner? room got real uncomfortable. what happens is school, work or what i call involuntary situations. you don't control really who gets hired. but who you eat with and go to lunch with is a voluntary situation. and oftentimes, we eat with people who we are like as opposed to folks and a lot of times based upon race. when i put that out there, the whole conversation changed because they realized that they had self-segregated but they thought they were all multi-racial and it was all

wonderful and it never dawned on them they were self segregating but they thought because they sat in the same classroom they were living a multi-racial world. if you take a donald sterling and these other issues, how do you begin to examine the issue of race in a different way. >> let me ask this way because we have to be careful and you said there is a skism, not so black and white but if a guy comes up to you and asks if i have on the u t-shirt and says, man. what year you play ball? does that mean he is racist? you see we have to be careful there, to. >> a perception, though. because if he saw a dude my size, if he saw a white guy my size, he able to asking that question. let's be honest. you can't say you are not saying anything about him. you've just made an assessment. >> ain't going to ask that. >> see what i am saying? >> can't ask if i played ball. >> honestly, we see and that's

distracting that we have to be careful. i may ask. if i see a 6' 5" guy, if he is not playing ball, he is wasting some nice height. he should have given that to my nephew. >> might have had to do with the cultur cultures. sports are huge. let's think through this. sports are huge in this country. i mean the money we spend on sports, so when someone sees you and maybe you went to a&m or sees me in a u shirt, we can't just say, he must be asking because i am black. i graduated. i am just saying in order to really grow and be edified, we have to watch it on both ways. my bin always tell me, put yourself in the next man's shoes, if you will. >> that's what i am saying. yes call him a racisracist. >> i know you weren't. >> per specialties, stereotypes that we buy in to and when you see it over a period of years

and then when i raise it, somebody goes, oh. yes realize that i just -- >> i understand because what we are dealing with here, though, is the whole idea of the word "prejudice." it means pre-judging. so when you come into a situation and you already know, oh, that's -- yeah, you played for abilene state. right? hey, no. i am a doctor. wow. >> that's not what we are talking about. but judging and assessing in the same area, but two different things. so, i get pre -- i can prejudge someone that means i made up my mind. accepting -- assessing, asking a question about, what position did you play? i may be not already free. >> that wasn't the question. you judged as opposed to saying -- no. no. no. no.

right. texas a & m jersey or shirt. maybe i am thinking sports. >> here is the deal. 500,000 formering agies. all them didn't play. >> everybody may not wear a jersey either. >> moderator here may have got it right. >> mayor nutter, can you sit between these two. >> i may be offended. no one has ever asked me if i play ball. >> right >> that's what i am talking about. i can tell you something worse than that that happens to me. people come up and ask me if i am will chamberlain, and i say, will chamberlain is dead, man. what is that all about?

>> maybe they need advice. >> let me ask you this question. i want to get away from sterling for just one second because, mike, you said it met. maybe you should make the comment. you talked about how sports gives us an opportunity to have these. >> what we were talking about is donald sterling, the michael sams situation. when they happen in sports because sports garners so much attention from the world and it's right there on t.v. i can't believe they pay me what they pay me to talk about it. i get paid to talk. i am cool with that. all the time. i was fortunate faking people out with my hips. now, i make millions faking people out with my lips. it is incredible. this is an incredible world. i love it. i love it.

but having that opportunity because it's so visible is so alive, it's so real. we don't get that this is happening in our fortune 500 companies. you know, we don't get those opportunities to talk about those things. and what we do is we are edified through those conversations, and let's take the michael sam situation for a moment, if we wi will. growing up, for me, calling michael sam and guys that had a sexual orientation opposite of mine, we didn't even know that. so when we used the word i don't even want to say it. >> f word? >> i have a job and they could be firing me. but when they used the "f"word. it was about a sign of weakness. so now, as we have these conversations, we start dispelling all of the myths and he hadfying one another and

getting better at it. now, hey. >> that's why i said, i want the first guy that coming to me, i want him to be a linebacker so he can knock somebody out. it doesn't matter. so we can squash all of the stereotypes to move forward. >> that's what's great about it all. >> that's what's great about it. having a conversation is what we need. i hate that we focused on one like the sterling and all of those guys but we do need to have this conversation. >> mayor nutter, i want to build on michael irvin's point about sports and the more serious way for a moment. i mean it does play out literally on the biggest stage. people are watching. it's broadcast. there is money. there are all kind of things going on. but we go back in history. so a couple of names: jesie owens. it wasn't just about running. what was going on at that time in the. >> right.

>> at war, near war, world issues. at the olympics, this was literally the united states of america against germany. >> right. >> now, being defined on a track. america's strength. 1968 olympics, john carlos decides to stand on the podium with a black glove and puts his fist up in the 1960s as a sign to the world of what was on his mind. life changed. i mean never really anything. our friend here comes in to the nba lou sender? change your name. huge controversy in sports.

casius clay/mohammed ali. and the whole issue all certainly during my time and my childhood, i know exactly where i was in the march of 197 be 1 listening on the radio as people were trying, you were either a joe frazier fan. and that had one set of perspectives or you were a mohammed ali fan. that will had a different perspective for blacks and whites. they were both in each of those fighters' camps trying to define, you know, are you a radical, or are you, you know, in a more establishment kind of mode? >> what's been going on. i mean not all of that during my time but certainly from the '60s on up, how race and other issues have played out on a larger scale in the united states of america and around the world shaping attitudes and perspectives on who we are and what we are about and a lot of

that continues. >> with a danger? >> has that not changed? i am asking the question because respectfully, maybe you are older? >> that is nice. >> a little younger. yeah. but that fight was about saying that, you know, we were inferior and it was sports. and jesse owens and all of those things. now, through sports, we show that we are not inferior. is that still the same fight we are having today? >> yes. yes. but here is what just got at me. 36 was positioned as america versus nazi germany but jesse owens when he came back continue

eat in restaurants in his own country. and so to bring it present day, we will praise our athletes as our warriors on the field, but let's have a conversation about education reform and are they actually being taught in the various schools as praising if they are winning on friday night. and so all of the sudden, when we begin to force the conversation, sports allows us because it is a unifying matter, if you will. sports and comedy really are probably -- sports, comedy and music are the three areas where literally, we come together regardless of background, depending upon the price of the ticket, background, ethnicity, gender, all of those different factors and we are all operating behind this one deal. but you know all of those are three entertainment venues. so a lot of times, we like to, okay, cool. we can get along. it's great. we can do this sort of stuff but

when you go outside of that, now, you are back in the real world. the problem that i have when we have these conversations and have somebody who spends six years on cnn. i mean i have been involved in media since i was 14, went to a journalism high school. what happens is we, in media, do the exact same thing in the real world, okay. let's hurry up and end this conversation so we can move on. let's move back. move on to what we were talking about beforehand. let's get off of this stuff dealing with michael sam and dealing with race and gender so we can get back to playing games because we like to play games versus deal with the hard stuff. so what i always tto do is say, minute. you have to keep that conversation going because en if you disagree with michael sam, disagree with riley cooper, disagree with incognito, disagree with donald sterling or

even agree with them, it's like the whole mark cuban discussion the i had no problem with what mark cuban had to say because somebody said, i got prejudices. i have biases. he puts it on the table and an argument turns into it was the stupidest conversation in the world. it should have been: he puts it on the table. so can we not own up to our own prejudices and biases and have that conversation? because part of the problem with the race discussion in america if we want to be honest, there are a lot of whites who walk to talk about personal feelings who are afraid to say it t you have to create the environment where people can be honest about how they feel and then same, okay. so when he made his comment about tray von martin and the hoodie my response was if you are a racist, my first question would have been, mark, what has caused you to feel that way? what has brought you to that

particular viewpoint? and if the moderator had asked that question, it would have led to why he felt that way, which leads to the next question. what we have evolved in to is statement, denunciation as opposed to statement, question. >> has to happen. >> so kareem, let me ask you this terror [applause.]? >> yeah. >> well, how much time do we have? >> my flight leaves at 2:45. >> all right. a quickful. and then i will ask kareem a question on it. so when the trayvon martin incident happened, koby bryant made a comment in terms of the way the miami heat players addressed it. they came out with the hoodies on solidarity. and you took a little bit of exception to what kobe had to

say. give us your perspective on that. >> first, kobe gave an interview to the new yo"new yorker." i read the piece. the question that the interviewer asked really was a ridiculous question because he sort of mixed several things together. he sort of mixed what the miami heat did with kobe getting criticism for not being more involved and active on various issues and kobe responded. the issue that i took with that is, first of all, what people seem to forget is that trayvon martin was killed on the night of the nba all-star game in sanford, florida. the game took place in orlando. he was going back home to watch the game. it was another two months before it blew up because frankly, national media ignored it. we drove it on social media. i remember tweeting dwyane wade,

who i know, saying -- and i specifically said: i am stunned that players who live in orlando and in miami are saying nothing about this because he was -- he lived in miami garden. and so dwain, i remember her tweeting he, roland, thanks, brother for pushing us and keeping us on these issues. a day later, they made the statement. the problem i had with kobe was, he was missing critical facts as to what actually happened and what took place there. the heat players were not saying george zimmerman was guilty. they were sending a signal that we stand in solidarity and what they were saying with those hoodies is that even though we might be nba ballers, depending upon where we go, they might not recognize the face of lee bron or dwain. we are like trayvon.

i we want at kobe hard. i make it clear. if i am willing to criticize the president and oprah, kobe, i will at you, too. if you are good, i talk about you. if you are bad, i stalk about you. he called my office and we had a discussion and he said you know, the issue i stated was i have a problem with people jump to someone's side because of race. and i said, kobe, let me remind you: because of the history of black men being accused of rape in america, there are some black folks who jumped to your side when you got accused of rape. so, in that conversation -- and i was flying somewhere and he hit me and i answered and he said i hear you talking about me. i went who is this?

kobe. i stepped to the side. we had about a 20 minute conversation. it led to a discussion. what was great about it was, i told him, kobe, when you make that statement, the interview, it made it sound as if the heat players jumped to the conclusion that because trayvon was black. >> that's what i took exception to, but it led to a conversation and i told him, i said, we can discusses it offline. i said if you want to discuss it on television or radio because there needs to be a broader discussion here because jim brown criticized him for the same thing. when these things happened, we either can respond or communicate and literally break it down to have a back and forth. and that's why i think so many of us are afraid. >> that's why media is so important. we shouldn't have the 8-minute quick discussion, racist offer non-racist. how do we get to that? >> can we also here, again, on the other side because if i am walking with my little girl and

i see somebody walking and it's 98 degrees out like it often is here in texas and you have on a hoodie over your head and 98 agrees degrees, they don't come much black earn me, i am a little worried. i don't know why you are hiding your face 90 degrees. doesn't mean i am racist but i am worried. >> i thought what happened with mark cuban the other day, if i see somebody walking towards me with all tattoos all over and he got those little tear drops in his eyes, i just saw on t.v. that means you are a murderer. this that means with your dress you wanted today scare me. >> worked. i am going on the other side of the road. >> worked. you got these tear drops so we can say. >> that's what i am telling you. we are all as humans have to as things around us. >> freeze it right there. you just said, i just saw it on t.v. . >> yes. .

>> i am grabbing an assessment. we are making absolutelies out of things. >> no. no. no. ? >> i am glad you said that because actually, you are proving my point. >> what happens is we are watching television. we are watching movies or the news, and all of the sudden, what we are being fed is driving our per septions of one another which also goes back to the work that you are involved in, in terms of your documentary, moier of the year books and i am saying maybe part of the problem is we have an unbalanced diet of what we have been fed in america that is driving these racial per septions. >> that's part of the issue. >> michael, are you good on that? >> i understand that. i believe some of that is reality. >> okay. kareem, let me ask you this: we are wrapping up. kareem, a two-part question. the first one in terms of just simply: what role has sports

played in race relationships? just give us that perspective. >> i think sports has the potential to be a great area where people can bridge to one another and by that, i mean we are los angeles lakers win the world championship. they have a street parade downtown in front of city hall. the whole communicatety was there. on the spanish lang movie theatre, lakers, people from the korean community. speaking languages. >> go ahead. >> people from korean community, south central la, west side, the valley, orange county. they all came together. it was wonderful. and then you look at the opposite when things don't work like that, when we have the rodney king incident and la was tearing itself apart.

they are still -- there are still charcoal alleys in different parts of la. so sports can bring us together in terms of the big community, as individuals. you can go out there every day and you working on the baseball field or on the weight room or on ball fields with people who aren't like you. and you see that they are hard-working, they have a sense of humor. they are this, that, or the other, you relate. what do you like? i like jayz or whatever. it enables people who would not necessarily have the opportunity to get to know each other and understand, hey, they are just like us. we are dealing with the same issues. we are trying to get to the same place. so, you know, the potential for sports to overcome a lot of ignorance and lack of knowledge of other people is huge.

white americans did not ever see a black american as having any value, especially heroic value until joe lewis beats up schilling. that was pretty good. all of the sudden they looked upon black persoamericans in a different way. jackie robinson blakes the color barrier. people say he should be out there. if he is not out there, that means that the best base a ballplayers are not playing major league baseball. >> should change. sports has that potential. for that reason, it is a good thing, especially as we know it here in america, and the things that it makes possible for all of us in terms of understanding and knowing each other. >> so kareem, let me ask this final question to you and i will move down so everyone will get their final thoughts. when the donald sterling incident happened, you wrote the article.

time magazine. yes understand half of your big words in there but it was a big article. the. >> read the dictionary. >> sot here is what i want to ask you: the incident became public on a saturday, friday night, saturday morning. we are in l.a. on tuesday morning because we hear adam silver, the commissioner, is about to make a ruling. i call you and your team night before. we come down to city hall. you come to city hall and we are in mayor garsetti's. you, norm nixon, a.c. grain steve nash, walton. all of these great players there. why was it so important for you to be there at city hall amongst. partnership you playing before adam silver? >> i was thinking the nba has been my life and i do not want

some racist clown being the face of the nba. that was the one thing that got to me [applause.] . >> and silver did such a great job. my first year in the league, i played in milwaukee. it was that year that they hired the first black manager. >> of course . >> and my whole life since then, i have seen the nba make more and more reaching out to be inclusive and to open up doors in the front office, management, in other areas where black americans at one point were not considered. so i know that the nba, its heart is right and it tried to do the right thing. if donald sterling is the face of that, something had to be done. >> that's why i got on my horse. >> for kareem abdkareemabdul-ja.

>> mayor nutter, you have a unique perspective you are dealing with. my brothers' keepers. you talk about violence and church and took everybody to task. we know this race issue is real. what final thoughts do you want to share to us? >> two things, roland said something earlier. this book -- >> keep going. >> what i have to say. >> lean in. i love leaning in. >> let me put a stop to that right now. >> my brother. >> roland said something earlier. i won't get it exactly right. so don't criticize me. he said, talking about if a white person wants to talk about race or wants to get into a race

conversation, there may be some challeng challenges, and mayor johnson certainly knows this. i mean when we talk about my brother's keeper, cities united, challenges going on african-american communities for black men and boys as it relates to violence that, you know, black men are six % of the population in the united states of america. 4 three % of the homicide victims. it is astounding circumstance. yes is -- mitch landrieux talks about this issue. >> yes, indeed. >> he says in the conversation t night with the new mayor of boston, marty walsh, wants to talk about this issue. so, the question is especially for the african-american community: are you prepared to have that conversation and have someone who does not look like you talk about these things?

not criticizing. not blaming the victim. but obviously, a little easier for an african mayor to talk about black on black violence. i get a little bit of static back at home, also. >> it has to be doubly difficult for a non-african-american leader, mayor, city council member or whatever to start talking about black on black crime which could be a very serious issue in your community and have black folks jumping up talking about why are you talking about that? so we have to create a safe and comfortable space for folks to be able to talk about real issues. what i say is somebody might criticize you for talking about it. i can assure some folks are going to criticize you for not talking about it because death is death. killings are killings and shootings are shootings. as mayors we have an obligation and responsibility to deal with those serious issues. >> field has to be open.

people have to be ready for serious conversation if we are going to truly do our jobs and live up to the oath that all of us took to be in these offices. >> that's why. the second is: from time to time, we read these stories about there is a team in washington, football team, have a particular name. some people are offended. this is a real issue here in the country. could that issue be address and taken on? in light of what's happened with the clippers and all of this other, you know, kind of stuff going on and that a growing proportion of the american indian community is, in fact, offended by the name of the team in washington, d.c. that plays ball. is that a real issue? it's a question. that's the question i was going to ask. >> sorry. >> we work well together. we work well together.

so michael, the question for you is: this broader context, you played football and those r i have a ls, cowboys, redskins. what is your take on mayor nutter's question? >> we talked about this. again, having these conversations is what's so vital for years growing up in fort lauderdale, watching my dad who loved the cowboys. we watched cowboys/redskin game and i didn't know. i didn't know as a young man. i didn't know that they was offensive to them to native americans. i didn't know. i didn't know. so in getting that, i was like, wow. you know, this is importance of having it and having those conversations. i see want to have a conversation with somebody to get the understanding of it because i still do not know. but if ittond did somebody, we

should do something about it if we understand that. >> that's the great part of it. here is the best part: even with the owner, dan snyder, i know they love making money. it could make a lot of money of them. they kind of get the new one. you can really satisfy both sides in understanding that, you know. and we all -- i get with people, the tradition of it, the tradition of it t i appreciate tradition and everything, but moving forward is what's important and moving forward together is what's important, i believe. a capitalist. i want to close with this. let me close to this because i want to go back to what he said about '68 and we are talking about 40 years, a little over 40 years. roland was absolutely correct. i want us to -- and we will take these moments and deal with these tough spots, this tough

love we hear from the one donald sterling that would invite these kind of conversations but as we leave here, i want us leaving with the right taste in our mouths, you know. in '68 in the bible, they call that a generation. the reality is, we have to be realistic when we are expecting change, and just because we start talking about it and mentioning it doesn't mean it's going to happen overnight. there is a reason god allowed the church of is real to wander for 40 years in the desert to get the old land slavery out them before they walked in the promise without the issues of slavery. we have the remnants of the donald sterlings that will affect us but i don't want us to miss the bigger point and that's 40 years. it's not a big thing but it's a

humongous. i have seen african-americans boo-hoo cry because they didn't think it would be possible in their lifetime of having an african-american president and that happened in a little over 40 years and we got to focus on this one dude donald sterling all we want or be smart enough on and focus on what we all accomplished when we came together. >> that's my closing comment [applause.] . >> roland will close us out with a final thought. >> i said -- a couple of points. i set on the scene of cnn. i was shedding tears. it wasn't because of his election. yes do it because i saw him. i saw literally the u.s. soldiers hanging from trees who were lynched in their uniforms. that was the immediate image that came to my mind. but the thing that i also said

after that, because it also ties into sports is that i recognize that the inauguration parade is over. if you have not read dr. king's caseos or community, you should. literally what we are talking about today, he wrote in 1967 and we were grappling with riots across the country. he said it did not cost america much, didn't cost america much to allow us to sit at the same lunch counter or to be in the same hotel. he said, now the question is the real cost is about to be tabulated and is america prepared to write that check? he broke that down in terms of where we are in terms of society. when i look at opportunity, when i look at this idea of sports and house race connects, what

each and every single one of you should do is do something that reverend jackson often talks about. he said the reason african americans have been able to achieve a level of success in sports and entertainment, he said, because in sports, if it's basketball, the court it 94 feet for everybody. it's 10 feet high for everybody. shot clock is the same, fouls are the same. everything is the same. so when you go to play, your talent will determine whether you succeed or not. it was undeniable that kareem, working on his game was going to achieve a level of success because in the game of sports, you can perform or you can't perform. you have the talent or you don't. same with michael. does not matter. but the real question that you should be challenging people in

your city and your corporate citizens and your schools and everyone else to say: why is it that in sports, rules are the same. we can measure success but then, off of the court, off of the field, it goes from objective to subjective? all of the sudden, your talent does not define whether or not you will become an all-star. what somebody else is thinking defines that. so, i am looking at folks who are ceo is but not my goodness. we have several african-american ceos. but how many board members they are and who are the folks vice president who was in the pipeline because what we are still seeing in this country, we are still seeing an inequitty in terms of folks at the top and the bottom. right now, there is still not an african-american who was a prime time host of a cable news network with a black man in the white house is a problem for me.

so what happens is, we praise sports because our sports figures worked on their game, achieved success because they said, if you run faster, throw longer, if you can shoot better and rebound better, then you are going to start. you are going to succeed. we should have the exact same attitude in the rest of our society, and when that happens and we make it the point, we preach all the time, then we will see a closing of the racial inequality gap when the average white home has 100,000 and the average african-american has 5,000. you won't see 50% wiped out because of the home foreclosure crisis and it will take two generations to get just that money back. when we have that attitude about life as we do about sports, then we are going to see it, and i will be remiss to say we should have the exact same attitude when it comes to our sports teams where mayors out there,

you are building new arenas for owners and you want them to win championships, what you should be saying when it comes to the education of our children, whether it's a question of school choice and reform, i want to ensure that we have the same kind of success so if you want to win a championship in ball or basketball, you sure as hell better win championships when it comes to educating our children. focus on that and that. then we are not going to be talking about ine quality in america. >> now, we have five owners in four major sports but six ceos in fortune 500 companies. 75 don't have any african americans on their board. only about 2%. less than 2%. >> google does it. facebook does. >> i figured -- i wasn't going to name them. >> i name everybody. >> so he is right in that sense. sports, we have such a major amount of guys on the field. >> that's why we get a chance to

talk about these things and, hopefully, change all of the things we need to change. but these discussions are important. >> before i let him go and before you applaud, i want to honor to give as a president of the u.s. conference of mayors we wanted to give the president's award to kareem abdul-jabaar for all of the outstanding work he is doing around the country. [applause.]. >> let's give a round of applause for kareem [applause.] ♪

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reports for the month of june show a rising trend in the purchase of some domestic brands. our first 45 minutes this morning, your thoughts on recalls in the u.s.