islam where mohammed came from. >> why do you suppose the muslim slaves don't revolt? the one billion muslim slaves. because when you put somebody , for a very long time, in a prison, if you open the gate, they don't run right away. like me, when i came to america, i did not get it right away. it took me a long time. ofis also the power oppression of society around you if you live in the muslim world. it is different from being a muslim and you live here. ands easy to dump islam adopt american values. when you're living there, the social pressure on you to go pray and social pressure is very hard.

it is changing, however. and i am seeing some hope that islam will go dormant again. liket will not go dormant -- it takes decades for cultures to change. a human being can change quicker than a culture. startew decades, if we drilling for oil in america, saudi arabia can drink its oil. [applause] and that is why anyone in america who is against drilling, theyst coal and against -- are trying to say the environment is going to suffer if we drill for oil? are you kidding me? look at saudi arabia and qatar, they have the most beautiful beaches of the red sea.

they are drilling right and left. now it is like 75. i don't see that the camels are dying in saudi arabia from the drilling. they are flourishing. the red sea and arabian sea are full of fish. of? theare we afraid liberals are lying to you. agenda is to stop the sterilization of america. havewant us to go back and the world catch up with us. that is their real motivation. they can't be honest. they are like the islamic ideology. they use lying to reach their goals. exactly like islam.

i would have more respect for liberals if they tell you their agenda. honestly, let's have an honest debate. they call you names just like islam says that you should go kill yourself. you are a racist and a bigot and an islam of folk. >> [no audio] [inaudible] ophobe. >> [inaudible] >> it was hard. islam for a long time can demoralize you. it was a burden. booke a chapter in my last called "a muslim's burden." guilt andway your

frees you. that is how we become in christianity. in islam, it is culture of shaming and control. it is the culture of putting a burden on an individual. if god came down the same as -- god came down to save us. in islam, we have to save allah's reputation. it is the duty of the muslim to carry the burden of mohammed and defend him. it is exactly the opposite. as soon as my mind cleared, -- i went a few years to certain churches and and i find judaism and christianity as one in my eyes. i don't know why. christians don't see that. i see it.

because christianity could never have happened without judaism. i look at the judaic christian altar as one. -- culture as one. i was watching tv one sunday morning and flipping channels. there were preachers, one after the other. and they were praying for the whole world. they were praying for peace on earth. that just struck me. , my god, my religion curses. i grew up cursing. the friday prayer, the muslim teacher was it and curse and get the sword out. god destroy the jews and infidels. and people go out of the mosques and kill christians as a result.

peace. man so at i became a better person. that is why it was not difficult for me to become christian and support israel. [applause] it lifted my guilt. >> i have one more question for you and we want to make sure you have time to sign books. challenging one. you say you are not against muslims, but against their ideology. how can you separate the two? you are not holding people accountable for their actions. ideology does not kill people, people kill people. >> i agree in a way, but we human beings are fairly weak. let me tell you, we are all born half good and half bad. depending on our religion, we either strengthen the good or strengthen the bad. muslims are really the victims

of islam. they have been brought up in an ideology -- we don't even know that lying and slander against jews is evil. we think it is a virtue. me, if i go and say in the muslim world today, if i make a speech about forgiveness between jews and arabs, i would be shot dead on the spot in the street. america sermon and about forgiveness between jews and arabs would give me a nobel peace prize, you know? , but one same thing culture looks at it as evil and one culture looks at it as a virtue. that is the problem. muslims are the victim of an eagle ideology. [applause] thank you. [captions copyright national

cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> on this we can's newsmakers, gary doer talks about the keystone xl pipeline which would stretch from from canada to the southern coast of texas. he discusses the canadian oil market. watch the interview when newsmakers airs at sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. c-spanover 35 years, brings public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings and conferences and offering complete apple to gavel coverage of the u.s. house all as a public service of private industry. we are c-span, created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on

facebook, and follow us on twitter. look at how sports can lead to a dialogue about race and society. some of the topics addressed include the racial comments of former la clippers owner donald sterling and the controversy over the national football league's washington redskins. among the speakers are former nba player kareem abdul-jabbar and former dallas cowboys wide receiver michael irvin. from the u.s. conference of mayors in dallas, this is just over an hour. >> things, matthew. i hope -- thanks matthew. i hope you guys are seated. we will have a really dynamic panel. i know you had a good time over the weekend it we are looking forward to it. one, wee on monday for have business to conduct and it is this really impressive panel.

>> let me give a little background. from jackie robinson integrating baseball, sports played a pivotal role in advancing civil rights. nba commissioner adam silver's swift and decisive response to la clippers owner donald sterling's racial comments makes clear that in today's society institutionalized racism is not welcome. in light of both events and the long-standing battle against institutional racism in sports, we are taking the action today to discuss the social and political implications of racism in sports.

through the interactive conversation, panelists will tackle questions that ask white racism pervades sports and society. we are convening today to learn and to discuss how sports should serve communities and how we together can become agents of change in our cities with our sports teams. before we move on to our panel i would like to introduce a leader in addressing the intersection between sports and cities. indianapolis mayor greg ballard is chair of the mayors professionals sports alliance. the mission of the alliance is to share among mayors resources and information on issues related to professional sports and to work effectively with leagues, players, and owners. give around of applause to mayor ballard. [applause] >> good morning.

mr. president, distinguished guests sports bring people , together. they bring communities together. certainly during the deep layoff -- layoff -- playoff run when athletes do good work in the community, sports bring nations together. how many of us gasped at portugal's last second goal last night? sports can also divide us. there can be a meanness and ugliness as is the case in this clippers episode. i was prior -- proud that the mayor's sports alliance stood with our president kevin johnson as he worked with the players and the alumni as they addressed the situation. i do applaud the nba for taking swift and decisive action. ultimately sports organizations , are part of who we are. they represent us as a

community. despite the elite athleticism we witness, we really want them to embody character and compassion as a community. that includes the respect for all of our citizens. diversity has always been about respect. respect was lacking in the clippers' organization. sports mirror society insofar as inclusion and respect has come at such a great price. such is the life of jackie robinson. it is our responsibility to continue the march. i look forward to the panel. thank you so much. [applause]

>> thank you, mayor ballard. i going to introduce the panelists and we will have a serious conversation. our first panelist that i would like to bring out to give a male mayoral role -- perspective is our very own michael letter. philadelphia has the reputation for being a passionate sports talent. you can hear boos all over the county. it has a long history of sports as it is spurred on serious conversations about race. former phillies manager ben chapman was one of the loudest voices opposing jackie robinson's integration to baseball. let's give a very loud round of applause to michael nutter. [applause]

>> secondly, i would like to bring out -- go ahead, have a seat. you are good. secondly, i would like to bring out a person who was originally scheduled to moderate. i thought he would give a better perspective sitting on the panel. we switched places. i did know i was going to lose my voice. roland martin is an influential reporter and commentator. he has a long career at bet and cnn. most recently, tv one. he has his own program called "news one now." he is from houston. --went to texas and dam

texas a and m. he is a journalist with a masters degree in christian communications. he has written several books. let's give around of applause for roland martin. [applause] you're good. all right. since we are in dallas, this is for you. i get a chance to introduce a dallas cowboy legend. this is a surprise guest. we did not put him on the schedule intentionally. so mayor rawlins would be surprised. he led the dallas cowboys to three super bowl championships. he is one of 17 children from fort lauderdale, went to the the university of miami.

he won a championship there. one of the greatest wide receivers to ever play the game. let's give around of applause to michael irvin. [applause] >> that me say two hello to everybody. >> most of you know that michael is also a personality and commentators on football on a regular basis. he has got that personality that is just magnetic. it is awesome to have him here. i don't know if you get a chance to see his acceptance speech into the hall of fame, it was one of the most amazing acceptance speeches of all time. one more round of applause for the playmaker. [applause]

this is the biggest introduction i'm ever going to make. his is not exciting, who is about to come out? you should clap before i even say his name. just let them know that we love him before we say his name. [applause] just listen to this. i did not want to go long. listen to this for a minute. six-time nba championship. this man won six of them. six-time most valuable player. 19-time nba all-star. hall of fame inductee. played with the bucs in milwaukee. won a championship. went out west to l.a. and won five more.

from new york, went to ucla, played under john wooden. won three championships in college. if you add those up, that is nine. [laughter] the man is a freshman and was not allowed to play varsity sports or he would've had a 10th. in college he was so effective they literally changed the rules because he was there. this is a rule-changer in a real way. he is a legend. he is also a new york times best-selling author. he has written books on history and civil rights. including "black profiles in books, a a host of documentary has been made about one of his books. two time naacp image award winner. get on your feet and give a round of applause for the one and only the greatest player to , ever play the game, kareem abdul-jabbar. [applause]

i feel like we can all go home. i feel like we have been to church and we have not said a word yet. look at kareem for just a second. dignified and distinguished. what makes him so amazing is not only the arguably best player to play the game, it is what he did off the court. for him to be here today with these panelists is amazing. this is often something that people do not know about him. he is not an out front person. last night, he took mayors at

cash out to dinner. give him a round of applause for treating our mayors to dinner last night. [applause] are you ready? we are going to get it going. we're going to have this panel discussion. i'm going to stand up here because i am losing my voice. i want to throw the first question out to mayor nutter. mayor what was your gut reaction , when you heard the donald sterling tape? was have to tell you, i really stunned. at first, my folks told me about it and i said, i mean is this , true? did somebody really say this? you have all these tapes and youtube and all that and elected officials know about that. maybe it was doctored. how does somebody say all of that? so i watched it. , i knew it was nine or 10 minutes. i'm probably not go watch the

whole thing. it is the epitome of an accident. it was fascinating. every piece -- it just went on and on and on. at the end i was disgusted. magic, you want to talk about people? you are the owner of a team. you are like an adult. you are supposed to be responsible. you know, i had some other thoughts. this is a family program. [laughter] it was insane. obviously it is been found to be , true. it is legit. we know the end of the story. we have to give our president huge recognition for the role that he played in the nba and the commissioner handled it properly. it was a stunning moment in america.

>> a question for kareem. same question. you wrote an impressive "time" magazine piece which was awesome. what was your first reaction and there will probably be a surprise under common, but go ahead. >> my first reaction was surprise. i had worked for mr. sterling. i coached the clippers in the year 2000. he invited me to his daughter's wedding. i had no idea exactly what was going on. through association i know elgin , baylor. i know what he was complaining about. i was confused not knowing which set of facts mr. sterling stood behind. then when his words came out it was so obvious and shocking. it was disgusting. all of those things wrapped in one.

the surprise of it, to find that sentiment in someone who relies on black americans for so much of his success and public profile, it was amazing. i couldn't believe that someone could have that much bigotry inside and think that it was ok. >> michael, what was your gut reaction would you first heard it? >> i was hurt. i was hurt for the players on the court and for the fans. because, let's be real here. the clippers have been waiting a long time for this. [laughter] where they are right now, they have been waiting a long time and there have been a lot of loyal fans. they have chris paul and doc rivers. people that are such upstanding

african-americans that represent the best we have to offer. and then two point out and attack one of the best we have johnson i wasagic , hurt. i won't say that i was totally shocked. i truly believe, we still have the remnants of some of these still left. i am not shocked, but i was hurt . we have heard some things prior to this about donald sterling. the bible says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. as we go on and on and he kept going on and on, i think we heard more of his heart. i was shocked and hurt for all those people. >> lsu the same question. for everyone out here watching what he is doing right here he , does not have add.

well, he may have that too. he is just a twitter maniac. he tweets like no one's business. i want you to know that he is paying attention. >> i've got dad some new followers. >> my reaction was, and? people were surprised by it. i think what people were more surprised by was the fact that he said it to the degree that he did. somewhatn i was pleased with it was because we are living in denial because there are too many people saying , we have a black president. this is the post-racial america. fox news says racism doesn't even exist. all you have to do is go to the eeoc website and you can see

case after case after case. we act as if things are changing. you see black mayors and ceos. somehow these people have been wiped out. when dr. king said, and chaos or community come out where do we go from here? what do we do about what is in somebody's heart? for him to be a team owner, it is no shock. look you have a city , councilwoman in texas who was recorded saying we need to get those blacks off the school board. and she refuses to apologize. she is on a pollock -- she is unapologetic saying that we need to get those blacks off the school board. we have to say, wait a minute. we have to confront the reality of race in america, who is here from akron, ohio? the newspaper won a pulitzer prize for a series on race and ushering in a citywide conversation. part of this is because what we

love to do in america is we love to not have that brutally honest discussion. we want to have the nice we all get along conversation without realizing there are people in power who own businesses, who are elected officials who might be in charge of having black people who work for them but have a hard-core view on the issue of race. it causes a lot of people to force themselves to say, wait a minute. we might want to examine ourselves. it forced the nba to answer some questions when you had examples of this owner and the issues of race over the years and you are silent about him. from thatothing aside major housing lawsuit that he had to pay money out of and delete did nothing. >> kareem, i want to come back to you. kareem went to college in the 1960's when civil rights was at the top.

he played professional sports in the 60's and 70's. tell us -- are we at the end of an era? help was what -- help us connect with what you are going to then and where you think we are today. >> i think what has happened is is when we have the fact that we had the legal means to combat institutionalized racism, a lot of black americans said ok. , now we have the tools to achieve something. it is taken us decades to achieve those things that we have the tools to work on. when it comes to working on what is in people's hearts, we have a very long way to go. even though we have these tools, we have a long way to go because people do not understand their own bigotry. it is so endemic to the human experience.

it many people don't get when they are very intensely affected by racism and you racist acts they are not even aware of it. we have a long way to go. >> position this properly. -- bustgomery boycott boycott begins in 1965. march on the washington in 1963. civil rights act, fair voting act, nixon gets elected in 1968. period of 13 years, the country was transformed. if 1960 it was the marker of full freedom for african-americans, that is 46 years. right now, 45.5 years. if you say that dr. king was killed in 1968 and

affirmative action, 1968, nixon as the marker. full freedom for black folks in 1968. that is a 46 year. i am 45. i will be 46 and november. we walk around as if things are changed. we have amazing freedom. in the history of the country, 1968, whichicans in was known as a false year because of other things 46 years of so-called freedom. expand on the donald sterling and the issue of housing and economics and inclusion and go beyond that, we we have come a long way but we are talking about 46 years of so-called full freedom. if you think that we have gotten over the issue of race, we have to be delusional. it did not happen in 46 years.

same way in south africa, when they celebrated nelson mandela's passing but you still have the country where blacks don't have access to power, economically and politically. it might be president of the country, but they don't control capital. >> i will ask you both the same question. i think most of you remember a philadelphia eagles football player who was recorded saying the n word. what are your thoughts when you first heard that? >> a couple of things. hold on to what you talked about 45 years. i will address the riley cooper situation. it was my job on sunday and thursday to talk about it. riley cooper, i had watch. he has been playing football for a lot of years.

one of the things i talked about up, i wasissue came coming from a basketball camp with my son in las vegas. as we walked by the pool, they had music blasting with the n word. 50 different ways to sunday. everybody was rocking and have a great time. in out in ansteps angry situation and drops the word. and here we go saying everything about riley cooper. i felt, first of all i said it , then and i will say it now, we ought to take responsibility as african-americans for injecting the word out there and making it ok. riley cooper said it in a moment of heat. the word has already been put in your spirit from all the songs you listen to and in a moment of heat you let it go. do i count him as a racist?

i don't think so. he is been around people all of his life. richie incognito's situation is different in miami. i thought that is exactly what the word was used and how it was used back in the day. used it as aito systematic way to break down another man. that is what i call racism. of writing down the other man. that is not tolerable. [applause] >> i want you to know that when you say athletes are not smart, look at these two appear. i am sitting next to the dictionary. this knows every meaning of every word and for him to be able to break down the issues, this drives me crazy as a former athlete. people don't give athletes enough credit for what they do. i think these are great examples.

>> he knows more words than don king? >> yes, he does. put him on the spot. this is true. kareem and i were on streetcar in san francisco. we were getting an award. we were riding around. i was looking at him the whole -- we are running around. i said tell me something about , the great walls of china? the man said, did you know rock was accorded built for -- i was like, hold on. this is a true story. [laughter] nutter, same topic because you had to do with it head on. >> yes, i did. my reaction was swift, aggressive, and negative. i saw that tape.

that said a statement he needed to clean up and fix it. i sawk quite honestly, as it i was left with the , impression that it was not the first time in his life he did use that word. that calls into question a host of other issues. the team try to deal with it. all of a sudden he suddenly had , to go away. clear, but ireally think they were just trying to get him out of town. out of the situation. -- we wereot a teasing in the back, michael irvin, because he always loved laying in philadelphia. -- playing in philadelphia.

[laughter] our fans are passionate. it is not an overreaction kind of town. there was a lot of reaction to that. it is a player. they were home, not on the field. it was a very negative reaction. i have some thoughts about how it was handled. whether it was completely handled properly. the season started and there wasn't much self. he went on to had a pretty good season and i will not say that all is forgotten. if you asked the question people , remember. he is trying to get past it. when i see him on tv or if i am at the game, i hear his name. i immediately remember that. he has to deal with that. >> we have a false reality about race. this is what it has evolved into. riley cooper, racist or not a racist?

you watch these cable news shows and it was the same thing as the donald sterling conversation. it becomes racist or not a racist? as if there is nothing in between those two. what happens is people say you are a racist and you have people on that and. and you have people defending him, i know him, we have hung out, he is not a racist, as if there is nothing that is in between that deals with how we perceptions,, our -- i will make this example. there is nothing that pisses me off more than people asking me if i played ball there. hell, i didn't play ball. the first question is not did you graduate or what did you major in?

i was playing golf and the dude said, how was it -- i was brother, af with my m graduate, and i had just written a column called "no, i am not a football player. he asked the question. i did not respond. my brother was just going, please don't answer. we finally got done. he goes, i don't know why i asked that question. yes, you do. what happens is we have perceptions. we have beliefs. a lot of them are based on race. if i see a 6'5" white guy i automatically don't assume he played basketball. is, when we talk about race, we have to a

knowledge that there is something in between not a racist or you are a racist that plays into this and then we simply don't like to have that. now it brings into question how our mothers and fathers raised us how are friends are around , us. there are all of these black and white and hispanic and asian students. they get along great. consider going, this is a bunch of bs. i said, let me ask you a question. would you eat lunch with? who do you asked, mean? who do you eat lunch with? when i asked that question, they got uncomfortable. they start butt dancing. i call that when someone gets uncomfortable. they start doing it, the entire room. i said you can't tell me you get

along and you live in this wonderful race neutral world because who you choose to go to lunch with defined your view. i look at the parents and say who eats at your house for dinner? the room got really uncomfortable. what happens is school and work are involuntary situations. you do not control who gets hired. who you eat with and who you go to lunch with is a voluntary situation. often we eat with people we are like as opposed to people who are -- a lot of time it is based on race. when i put that out there the , whole conversation changed. they realized they had self segregated. they thought they were all multiracial and it was all wonderful and it never dawned on them that they were still segregating. they thought because they sat in the same classroom that they were living in a multi-racial world. again if you take donald , sterling and these other how do you begin to

examine race in a different way? >> you say we have to be careful. there is a schism. it is not so black and white. if a guy comes up to you and ask, and i have on a u t-shirt, what year did you play ball? does that mean he is racist? we have to be careful as well. >> if he saw a dude my size, a white guy my size, he is not asking that question. let's be honest. >> you can't say you are not saying anything about him you , just made an assessment. >> is not going to ask. >> you see what i am saying? that is what we have to be careful with. if i see a 6'5" white guy, i will wonder if you play basketball or not. maybe that has something to do with time or the people we have

been around or the culture that we came up with. sports are huge. let's think through this. sports are huge in this country. the money we spend on sports -- when someone sees you in an a shirt, wee it or a u can assume -- it doesn't mean i played sports and didn't graduate. in order to have growth and be at a fight -- we have to watch it on both ways. >> i didn't call him a racist. >> i did not say you were were. >> there are perceptions and stereotypes that we buy into. we see it over a. years, i did not realize i jumped to a conclusion. >> what we are dealing with is the idea of the word prejudiced.

it means pre-judging. when you come into a situation and you already know you played for abilene state, right? no, i am a doctor. wow. that is what we are talking about here. >> prejudging and assessing are in the same area but two different things. i can prejudge, which means i made up my mind who he is. assessing means i'm trying to figure out who he is. when asking a question about, what position did you play? i may be assessing but not prejudging. >> that is not a question. you judged. [laughter] texas a and m sure, so i am thinking sports. >> there are 500,000 former aggies out there. all of them didn't play. >> everybody may not wear a jersey either.

>> mayor, can you sit between these two? [laughter] >> i may be offended. nobody ever asked me if i played ball. [laughter] [applause] i can actually throw. >> i can tell you something worst that happens to me. people come up to me and asked me if i am will to chamberlain. chamberlain. i say, wilt chamberlain is dead, man. what is that all about? [laughter] >> maybe they want dating advice. >> let me ask you this question. i want to get away from sterling for just one second. mike you said it best. , you said sports gives us an

opportunity. >> what we were talking about is donald sterling and michael sam situation. when they happen in sports, because sports garners so much attention from the world and it is right there on tv. i can't believe they pay me what they pay me to talk about it. >> i am with you. i get paid to talk. >> i was fortunate enough to make millions faking out people with my hips and now i make millions talking about how to fake people out with my lips . this is incredible. this is an incredible world. i love it. having that opportunity is so real. we don't get that if it is happening in our fortune 500 companies. we do not get those opportunities to talk about

those things. edifieddo is we are through those conversations. let's take the michael sam situation for a moment. for me growing up, calling michael sam or guys that have a sexual orientation opposite of mine, we didn't even know that. when we used the word, i don't even want to say it -- f word. >> whenever the use the f word it wasn't about sexual orientation, it was about a sign of weakness. now as we have these conversations, we start dispelling all the myths and edifying one another and getting better at it. that is why i said i want the first guy to be a linebacker so he can knock somebody out. it does not matter, so he can squash all of the stereotypes to move forward. that is what is great about it.

that is what is great. having conversation is what we need. i hate that we focus on the one , like the sterling and those guys. we do need to have these conversations. >> i want to build on michael irvin's point about sports. in a more serious way for a moment. it does play out literally on the biggest stage. people are watching. it is broadcast. there is money. there are all kinds of things going on. a couple of names. jesse owens. it wasn't just about running. what was going on at that time? at war, near war, world issues. at the olympics. this was literally the united states of america against germany. now being defined on a track.

america's strength. 1968 olympics. john carlos decides to stand on the podium with a black glove on his hand and puts his fist up in the 1960's as a sign to the world of what was on his mind. life changed. never really anything for john carlos. our friend here. comes in to the nba and changes his name. you have a right to change her name. huge controversy in sports. cassius clay. -- i know where i where i was

listening on the radio. you are either joe frazier fan , and that had one set of perspectives, or you are a mohammed ali fan. that had eight different perspective. they were both in each of those camps, trying to define, are you a radical or are you in an establishment? that is what has been going on. up,ainly from the 60's on issues playedther out on a larger scale in the united states of america. it is shaping attitudes and perspectives on who we are and what we are about. a lot of that continues today. >> has been a change a little bit? i am asking the question because , respectively, maybe a some of you guys are a few years older than me. >> that was nice.

>> that fight was about saying we were inferior and it was sports saying they were not inferior. fraser-ali? >> >> and jesse owens and all of those things. through sports we show that we are not inferior. is that still the same fight we are having today? >> yes. yes. here is what jumped out as me. 1936 was america versus not see -- nazi germany. when jesse owens came back he could not eat in restaurants in his own country. to bring it to present-day, we will praise our athletes as our warriors on the field but when we have a conversation about

education reform and are they being taught in the very schools that are praising them for winning on friday night. sudden, when we begin to force a conversation, sports allow us, because it is a unifying matter, sports and comedy -- sports, comedy, and music are the three areas where we come together regardless of background, ethnicity, gender, all those factors. we are all operating behind this one deal. but you notice that all of those are three entertainment venues. a lot of times we are -- we can get along and that is great. when we go outside of that, your -- you are back in the real world. the problem i have in we have these conversations and is somebody who spent six years on cnn, i have been involved in media since i was 14. i went to a journalism high school. we, in thes is

media, do the exact same thing in the real world. let's hurry up and end this conversation so we can move on -- let's move onto what we were talking about beforehand. let's get off this stuff with michael sam and dealing with race and gender so we can get back to playing games. we like to play games. verses dealing with the hard stuff. what i try to do is say wait a minute. you have to keep that conversation going. even if you disagree with michael sam, disagree with riley cooper, disagree with incognito, disagree with donald sterling or even agree with them -- it is like the old mark cuban discussion. those that were upset, -- i had no problem with what mark cuban had to say because some he said i had prejudices. i am biased in he puts it on the table and the argument turned

into -- i remember seeing a clip on cnn, is cuban a racist? it was the stupidest conversation in the world. it should have been he puts it on the table so can we not own up to our own biases and have that conversation? part of the problem with a race discussion is a lot of whites want to talk about their personal feelings are afraid to say it because they will be called a racist. you have to create an environment where people can be honest about how they feel and begin to say ok. when he made his comment about trayvon martin and a hoodie, my first response was it you are a racist. my first question would have been, mark, what is caused you to feel that way? what has brought you to that particular viewpoint? if the moderator had asked that question, it would've led to the why he felt that way, which leads to the next question. we have evolved into statement

, denunciation instead of statement, question. that has to happen. [applause] >> how much time do we have? >> we have a way to go. my flight leaves at 2:45. [laughter] a quick follow up and i will ask kareem a question on it. >> so when the trayvon martin incident happened, kobe bryant made a comment in the terms of the way the miami heat players addressed it. they came out with the hoodies on in solidarity. and you take a little bit of exception to what kobe bryant had to say. give us your perspective. >> first, he gave an interview to the "new yorker." i read the piece, and the question that the interviewer asked really was a ridiculous question.

he sort of mixed several things together. he mixed with the miami heat did with kobe giving criticism for not being involved and more active on various issues, and then kobe responded. first of all, people seem to forget the trayvon martin was killed on the night of the nba all-star game in sanford, florida. the game took place in orlando. he was going to come to watch -- he was going back home a to watch the game. it was another two months before it blew up because, frankly, national media ignored it. we drove it on social media. i remember tweeting dwayne wade, who i know, and i specifically said -- i am stunned that layers -- players who live in orlando and miami are saying nothing about this, because he lived in miami

gardens. so i remember him tweeting -- thanks, brother, for pushing us and keeping us on these issues. a day later, they made the statement. the problem i had with kobe was he was missing critical facts as to what actually happened and what took place. the heat players were not saying george zimmerman guilty. it was sending a signal that we stand in solidarity. but they also were saying with those hoodies was that even though we might be nba ballers, depending upon where we go, they might not recognize the face of lebron or dwayne, so we're just like trayvon. that is why i took issue with what he had to say and i went at kobe hard. i will make it perfectly clear. if i am willing to criticize the president and oprah, kobe, i'm going to swing at you, too. it does not even matter. my philosophy is if you do good, i will talk about you. talk aboutad, i will

you. i'm going to talk about you. he called my office. we had a discussion, and he said, you know, the issue i stated was i have a problem when people jump to someone's side because of race. i said, kobe, let me remind you -- because of the history of the -- of black men being accused of rape in america and some black folks jumped at your side when you were accused of rape -- [applause] so in that conversation -- i was flying somewhere and he hit me and i seen his number, and ugly i answered. he said, i see you are talking about me, and i was like, who the hell is this, and he said kobe. i stepped the site for a 20 minute conversation but it led to a discussion and what was great was i said, kobe, the , interview made it sound as if the heat players jumped to the conclusion because trayvon was black, and that is not what they were saying.

that is what i took exception to. but it led to a conversation. i told him we can discuss it off-line or on television or radio, because there needs to be a broader discretion here because jim brown criticized him for the same thing. that is what i am saying -- when these things happen, we can either respond or we can communicate and really break it down and have a back-and-forth. that is why so many of us are afraid. that is why media is so important. you should not have the eight-minute quick discussion, racist or nonracist. it is, ok, what do you mean, and how can we get to that? >> can we also -- here again, on the other side -- if i'm walking with my little girl and i see somebody walking and it is 98 degrees out, like it often is here in texas, and you have on an hoodie over your head in 98 degrees -- they do not come much blacker than me, but i will be a little bit worried that i do not

-- worried because i have my little girl with me. i don't know why you are hiding like that when it is 98 degrees. it does not mean i am racist. but i am worried. i thought with -- what happened with mark cuban the other day -- if i see someone walking towards me with all tattoos and he has those little teardrops in his eyes, i just saw on tv that that means you are a murderer. that means that with your dress, you wanted to scary. so i'm telling you, that worked. i am going on the other side of the road. what we can say -- that is what i am telling you, we are all human and have to assess the things around us. >> freeze it right there. you said -- i just saw it on tv. >> it is an assessment. we are making absolutes out of things. >> i am glad you said that. you are proving my point. what happens is we are watching television, we're watching movies or the news.

all of the sudden, what we are being fed is driving our perceptions of one another which , also goes back to the work that you are involved in in terms of your documentaries, your movie, your book, and what i am doing by saying part of the problem is we have an unbalanced diet of what we have been fed in america that is driving these racial perceptions. >> michael, are you good on that or no? >> [inaudible] i understand and i believe some of that is reality. >> we are wrapping up here. i have a two-part question. the first one is in terms of just simply -- what role has sports played in race relations? just give us that perspective. >> i think sports has the potential to be a great area where people can bridge to one another. by that i mean the los angeles

lakers win the world championship and they have a street parade downtown in front of city hall. the whole community was there. on the spanish-language movie theater, people from the korean community -- [speaking foreign language] >> speaking different languages, go ahead. >> people from the korean community, south-central l.a., westside, the valley, they all came together. it was wonderful. then you look at the opposite, when things do not work like that, and we had the rodney king incident and l.a. was tearing itself apart. there are still charcoal alleys in different parts of l.a. behind that. sports can bring us together in terms of the big community, as individuals.

you go out there every day and you work in the baseball field or in the weight room or on football fields with people who are not like you, and you see that they are hard-working and have a sense of humor. they are this, that, the other. you relate. what do you like? i like james lee or whatever. it enables people that would not necessarily have the opportunity to get to know each other and understand -- hey, they are just like us and we are dealing with the same issues, trying to get to the same place. the potential for sports to overcome a lot of ignorance and lack of knowledge of other people is huge. white americans did not ever see a black american as having any value, especially heroic value, until joe lewis beats of max millan. they like that. that was pretty good. all of the sudden, they looked upon black americans in a different way.

jackie robinson breaks the color barrier in baseball. people say, he can play. he should be out there. if he is not out there that , means the best baseball players are not playing major league baseball. sports has that potential, and i think for that reason, it is a good thing, especially as we know it here in america, and the things it makes possible for all of us in terms of understanding and knowing each other. >> i have this final question for you. when the donald sterling incident happened, you wrote the article in "time" magazine. i did not understand half of your big words, but it was a good article. >> read a dictionary. [laughter] >> here is what i want to ask you. the incident became public on a saturday, friday night, saturday

morning. we are in l.a. on tuesday morning because we hear that adam silver, the commissioner, is about to make a ruling. i call you and your team and i -- team the night before. we come down to city hall. you come to city hall. we are in mayor garcetti's office. you, norm nexen, ac green, steve nash, luke walton, all these great players there. why was it so important for you to be there at city hall, and what were you thinking right before adam silver made his ruling? >> i was thinking that the nba had been my life and i do not want some racist clown being the face of the nba. that was the one thing that got to me. [applause] commissioner silver did such a great job. my first year in the league, i played in milwaukee. it was that year that they hired the very first black general

manager, wayne embry, and my whole life since then, i have seen the nba make more and more reaches to be inclusive and to open up doors in the front office, management, and other areas where black americans, at one point, were not considered. so i know that the nba, it's heart is right and it has tried to do the right thing. and if donald sterling is the face of that, some thing has to be done. that is why i got on my horse. >> round of applause for kareem abdul-jabbar. [applause] mayor nutter, i will give you flexibility on your question. you are a mayor with a unique perspective. you are dealing with my brothers keepers. you talk about violence in our communities and in church. you took everybody to task. we know this race issue is real in our country.

what final thought do you want to share? >> [inaudible] >> keep going. >> lean in. [laughter] >> let me put a stop to that right now. [laughter] >> i ain't scared of a brother. >> roland said some thing earlier, and i may not get it exactly right. he was talking about if a white person wanted to talk about race or wanted to get into a race conversation, there may be some challenges. mayor johnson certainly knows this -- i mean, when we talk about my brothers keepers, cities united, challenges going on in african-american communities for black men and boys as it relates to violence.

black men are 6% of the population and 43% of the homicide victims in america. astounding circumstances could the question is, the mayor of new orleans talks about this issue. >> yes, indeed. >> and he's white. in a conversation last night with the new mayor of boston, he wants to talk about this issue. so the question is, especially for the african-american community, are you prepared to have a conversation and have someone who does not look like you talk about these things, not criticizing, not blaming the victim, but it is obviously a little easier for an african-american mayor to talk about black-on-black violence -- it is doubly difficult for a

non-african-american leader, mayor, city councilman for, whatever, to start talking about black-on-black crime, can be as serious issue, and have black folks jumping up talking about, why are you talking about this? so we have to create a safe and comfortable space for folks to be able to talk about real issues. i say, look, somebody might criticize you for talking about it. i can assure you some folks will criticize you for not talking about it. because death is death. killings are killings and shootings are shootings. as mayors, we have an obligation and responsibility to deal with these issues. that door has to swing both ways. that field has to be open. people have to be ready for a serious conversation if we do our jobs and live up to the oath that we took to be in the office. that is one.

secondly, from time to time, we read stories about a team in washington, a football team with a particular name, and some people are offended. this is a real issue here in the country. should that issue be addressed and taken on? in light of what has happened with the clippers and all of this other stuff going on and that a growing proportion of the american-indian community is offended by the name of the team in washington, d.c. that plays football. is that a real issue? >> well, that is the question i was actually going to ask michael. we work well together. we work well together. michael, the question for you is this broader context. you play football and there are the rivalries cowboys-redskins. what is your take on mayor nutter's question?

>> we've talked about this. having these conversations is so vital. for years, growing up in fort lauderdale and watching my dad who loved the cowboys, we watched cowboys-redskins games and i did not know. i did not know as a young man. i did not know that it was offensive to them, to native americans. i did not know. in getting that, i was like, wow, this is the importance of having those conversations. i want to have conversations with somebody to get an understanding of it, because i still do not know. but if it offends somebody, we should do something about that. we understand that. that is a great part about it. here is the best part -- even

with the owner, dan snyder, i know they love making money. it could make a lot of money for them because everybody that has all the redskins things, they have got to get new ones. [laughter] so you can really satisfy both sides in understanding that. people say it is the tradition of it, and i appreciate tradition and everything, but moving forward is what is important, and moving forward together it will -- is what is important, i believe. [applause] capitalist -- let me close with this. i want to go back to what he said about 1968 and everything, talking about a little over 40 years. roland was correct, we will take these moments and deal with these tough spots, these tough roads that we hear from the one donald sterling and people like that that will invite these kinds of conversations, but as we leave here, i want as leaving with the right taste in our mouths.

in 1968, a little bit past 40 years, in the bible, they call that a generation. the reality is we have to be realistic when we are expecting change. just because we start talking about it and mentioning it does not mean it is going to happen overnight. there is a reason god allowed the children of israel for 40 years to walk in the desert to get the old man -- land of slavery out before they get to the new land of promise without the issues of slavery on them. we still have the remnants of the donald sterlings. but i do not want us to miss the bigger point. that is 40 years -- we say it is not a big thing, but it is humongous. i have seen african-americans who cried because they do not think it would be possible in their lifetime of having an