as i close, i would just say this -- when i started the speech, i referred to where our rights came from, and that is in the declaration of independence. i know a lot of folks like to focus on the constitution, and the constitution is obviously the operator's manual for america. it is the how of america, and it is essential that we return our government to the constraints of the constitution. but the why of america, who we are, is in the declaration. "we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and are in doubt by their creator with certain -- endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights." the one thing government is to do is to protect those rights so that you can for families, churches, community organizations, civic groups, schools, and all the great and just society from the bottom up.

that is the conservative vision for america. that's who we are. at the end of that declaration, there's a phrase. the signers signed the declaration with this pledge -- they pledged their lives, their fortune, and their sacred honor. man and woman steps forward every day and put the uniform of the military on every day. [applause] i am not asking for your fortune, although if you go to ricksantorum.com -- [laughter] a piece of that fortune would be very helpful. but i am asking for your honor.

honor is a term that is not used in america very often anymore, but it is exactly what is at stake. we are stewards of our great inheritance, and it is our responsibility to shepherd that inheritance and make it a greater and richer one for the next generation. if we fail to do that, we have failed our duty and our honor as americans. this is our opportunity. many generations come and go in america living in inconsequential times. you are blessed to live at a time when america needs you. [applause] please walk out of this

gathering, choose the candidate that you believe is the right person to lead this country not just to victory, but to the changes that are necessary for the victory to be won so you can say "i have done my duty, i have kept my honor." thank you, and god bless. [applause] ♪ [applause] >> rick santorum this morning. we will take you back live. newt gingrich's wife is introducing the candidate. >> people have offered their heartfelt prayers and support. i want to thank everyone who has

reached out. you have made our lives richer and our campaign stronger. [applause] because i know newt better than most, i am pleased to introduce him today. i would like to share a few things about to him that he may be surprised to hear. first, he is an enthusiastic and committed golfer. true. he gets in and out of more sand traps than anyone i've ever seen. newt golfs the way he does everything, with enthusiasm and determination. he is willing to learn and he never gives up. newt loves books.

we have books in every corner of our home. he also has a kindle. newt is also very supportive. when i sing at the basilica at the national shrine or play my french horn with the city of fairfax band, he is right there listening. i am personally grateful for his wisdom in not trying to sing as a candidate. he knows his limitations. finally, we have had some great family moments over the last several months. our grandchildren have joined us

on the campaign trail. newt is very committed to our grandchildren and the future of our country. we believe with all of our hearts that america is the last bastion of freedom. we believe that our current path puts the future of our great nation in jeopardy. we believe both -- a bold solutions and fearless leadership are necessary to rebuild the america we love. please welcome my husband and the next president of the united states, at newt gingrich. [applause] ♪ [applause] ♪

>> how are you? thank you. what she did not tell you, by the way, i am a very bad golfer. [laughter] she just would not say it. as a personal note, i want to thank cpac for recognizing such a great friend. [applause] i want to thank the newt 2012 volunteers to have been working. we are a people-based campaign. our volunteers are very important.

i have spoken here many times. cpac was founded to challenge the republican establishment. when ronald reagan came here in 1974, and gave his famous speech on bold colors, that was a decade in from his first great national speech for barry goldwater. when ronald reagan campaigned in 1980, you could see the gap between the republican establishment and the conservative movement. reagan campaigned on supply-side economics, lower taxes, less regulation, more american energy. the establishment called it voodoo economics. the gop establishment has a single word they use with contempt for conservative ideas.

they say they are unrealistic. creating 16 million jobs under reagan, unrealistic. and in the soviet union, unrealistic. -- ending the soviet union, unrealistic. the fight against the republican establishment over the very question of whether or not we should have an anti-so be it campaign. the 1994 contract with america, unrealistic. the house republican majority of 1994, elected by the largest one party increase in american history, 9 million new voters, unrealistic. reforming welfare, unrealistic. 11 million new jobs come on realistic.

for years of a balanced budget, unrealistic. -- four years of a balanced budget, unrealistic. [applause] the republican establishment, managing the decade is preferable to changing the trajectory because changing the trajectory requires real fights and requires a real willingness to roll up sleeves and take on the left. that is why the republican establishment, whether it is in 1996 or in 2008, it cannot win a president to campaign because they do not have the commitment and they do not have the philosophy necessary to build a majority in this country. [applause] let me say the republican establishment in this city, where recapitalize some in congress is fully as bad as connie capitalism on wall street and they had better clean up the congress if they expect to be

reelected. cpac represents a 50-year struggle that goes back to the cold water movement in 1962. the tea party versus the republican establishment is the same fights. this has been going on for half a century. the core of it is very simple. the conservative movement, one that offers bold solutions to rally millions of americans, not just republicans, millions of americans, democrats, people who have never been in politics before, then it went decisively. 1980, 1984, 1994 are examples of that. what i want to talk to you about today is bold solutions to get america working again. i want to contrast it with the timidity that comes from managing that decay. we won the second world war from

december 7, 1941, to august, 1945. this is an example of what america can do when you unleashed the american people. in 44 months, three years and eight months, we defeat not to germany -- nazi germany and imperial japan. it took 23 years to add a fifth runway to one airport. that is the establishment america. tied up in bureaucracy, red tape, incompetence, interest groups. [applause] lets me be very clear. all of you have seen the

washington establishment and the wall street establishment pollen top of me. all that -- all of you have seen them say things that are false. this campaign is a mortal threat to their grip on the establishment because we intend to change washington, not accommodated. -- accommodate it. [applause] the emphasis of the second world war, there is a world that works. most of it, but not all of it, is in the private sector. there is a world that fails. most of it, but not all of it, is in the public sector. how many of you had ever gone on line to check a package at ups or fedex? raise your hand.

virtually all of you. i want to drive this hon. this is not a theory. -- i want to drive this home. this is not a theory. we have the technology that enables us to track 24 million packages a day while they are moving and will allow you to find out where they are for free. that is the world works. here is the world that fails. the federal government today cannot find 11 million illegal immigrants, even if they are sitting still. [laughter] [applause] i have a simple proposal.

we send a package -- [laughter] to everyone who is here illegally. when it is delivered, we pulled it up in the computer and we know where they are. let's be safe for my friends in the news cbs -- and the news media, that is hyperbole and we do not need a fact check. [applause] i will give you a series of solutions that are big enough to get america back on the right track. i think this has been the greatest challenge of this campaign. we have lots of bickering and lots of arguments. we have no discussion, what does it take to get the most complicated society, the largest economy in the world, and move it back to been the most successful and safest and freest country in the world?

we have tons of details at newt.org. you'll see an immense amount of material. the standard here is to have solutions big enough to get america working again. on least the american people to rebuild the america we love. -- unleash the american people to rebuild the america we love. if i am the nominee, i will ask the republican ticket to campaign with me on the pledge that when the congress comes in on january 3, they will stay in session. by january 20, it it will have repealed the obamacare. [applause] it will have repealed dodd- frank. [applause]

it will have appealed -- all 3 of those are jobs killing bills. it increases the corruption of the political system. all three should be repealed and held at the desk until i am sworn in. we should sign the repeal of all three. that is a reasonable start. [applause] two hours after the inaugural address, i will begin signing executive orders. all of them will have been published by october 1. the country will know precisely what this campaign is about. the very first executive order will abolish all of the white

house czars as of that moment. [applause] we will sign that day in executive order which approves of the canadian pipeline to houston,. . . period. [applause] my message to prime minister harbor and the canadian government, you do not need a partnership with the chinese. give the american people a few months. and we beat obama, let you can start buying the equipment.

-- you can start buying the equipment. [applause] there will be an executive order to move the state department to put the embassy in jerusalem as of that day. rio tperiod. [applause] we will reinstate ronald reagan 's mexican city policy -- mexico city policy, no money for abortions overseas. we will have an executive order to repeal every act of religious bigotry by the obama administration. period. my goal is that by the time president obama lands in chicago, and we will have repudiated 40% of his government

on the opening day. [applause] let me talk about how to create jobs. america works when americans are working. the number one famous of the campaign will be a paycheck president versus a food stamp president. i worked with president reagan. we created 60 million jobs. i worked with president clinton and we created 11 million jobs and got down to 4.2% unemployment. serious change. i have only one measure. i want the establishment to

understand, this is not about fairness. this is not about being revenue neutral. this is about an agonizing -- maximizing economic growth to put americans back to work and to greet the most dynamic economy on the planet to become the dominant country on the planet. [applause] how do you do that? you eliminate the capital gains tax so that it is zero capital gains for all investment in the united states. [applause] second, you go to 100% expensing so all new equipment gets written off in one year. the goal is to make the american system the most modern in the world. [applause] if you're going to modernize the equipment, you want to modernize the workforce.

unemployment compensation should be changed so that you sign up for a business training program so we are modernizing our workforce. [applause] never again should be case somebody 99 weeks for doing nothing. -- case somebody 99 weeks for doing nothing. [applause] 99 weeks, and you could earn an associate degree. think about the total waste of human capability when you teach people to sit at home for 99 weeks. it is a violation of the declaration of the -- declaration of independence. if we are serious about manufacturing, we have to eliminate the environmental protection agency. it is a job killing agency. [applause]

we should replace it with a brand new environmental solutions agency made up of new people. the number one act requirement should be common sense. we should also have to take into account economics. the highest gas prices we have had, they are looking at a regulation that would raise the price of gas. it tells you how irrational epa is today and why we should replace it with a new agency. not try to reform act. -- it. we also need a 21st century fda. understand the science and accelerate getting it to the patient so we said as many lives as possible, as rapidly as possible. in the process, we create

hundreds of thousands of new jobs, dominating the world market in health care. [applause] we need a 12.5% corporate tax rate. it makes us competitive in at the world. it allows our companies to compete. at 12.5%, to general electric will actually pay taxes. we should abolish the death tax permanently because it is an immoral tax. [applause] you know, governor romney released his taxes, the liberals were shocked. their answer was to raise his taxes.

my goal is to get your taxes down to 15%. we have something we got from hong kong. hong kong has had a to track system. you can keep the current code, all the red tape, all the deductions, or you fill in one page. here is how much i earned comment here is 15%. here is what i want to say to the establishment. they will say, this is not revenue neutral. they're right. this is called a tax cut. this is going to become a huge argument inside the republican party. i worked and held the balance the federal budget for four years. when people say, he is being irresponsible. we will get a federal budget

balanced. my intention is to shrink spending down to the level of revenue, not to raise revenue up to the level of obama's spending. [applause] this is a fight we had in 1984 when we cut and no tax increase against the establishment. our principal was simple. we are not the tax collectors for the welfare state. we are interested in a tax code that creates jobs, maximizes freedom, gives you a chance to take care of your family, your charities, your church or synagogue. that is a different model than the establishment model. we will not tax the american people for barack obama's credit card. [applause]

how did it to a balanced budget? you cut spending, you cut taxes to maximize economic growth, uniform government, and you use american energy. -- your reform government, and you use american energy. a huge increase in revenue and a big decline in costs. take people off the food stamps, medicaid, off of public housing, unemployment, off of welfare. but then to work in taxes. the government gets more revenue without a tax increase. this is the first big step to balance the budget. let's talk about cutting spending. this is what i mean by bold proposals. we should replace the 130-year- old civil service system with a new model of modern management using systems and we should be prepared to save $500 billion a year in the operation of the

federal government and increase the economy by $2 trillion a year by the simple act of having a government cease to be incompetent, inefficient, and a hindrance to the future of the american system. [applause] we should look at cutting spending by looking at every single agency and we should start by abolishing the department of energy, which has been a total failure since it was founded. [applause] resupplied the system of american express, mastercard, to cut out fraud. it is almost a trillion dollars a decade justin at one end zone. we should apply the 10th amendment implementation to return power back home.

[applause] we also have things that are on energy. i believe we have an obligation to open up the american system to produce the maximum amount of oil and gas for three reasons. keeping the 500 or $600 billion here at home strengthens our economy. if we maximize production our goal should be to get back to $2 a gallon gasoline to prove to the american people that the free market works. a practical way that affects your life. this is pure supply and demand. when you realize that north dakota alone has 25 times as much energy as the u.s. geological survey found eight years ago, 25 times as much, and we are not allowed to look at

alaska. we do not look offshore. obama has been an anti-american energy president and every american pays the price every time they go to a gas station. [applause] i have a very simple principle. we want to insure that no future president ever against the bows to a saudi king again -- period. [applause] we need to move towards a personal social security savings account for young americans will taking social security off budget for senior citizens. no politician likes to our senior citizens by threatening

to keep from them checks that they earned and desert. the trust fund is there even if there is no trust in barack obama of. -- obama. we need to have a complete audit of the federal reserve to find out every single decision. we deserve to know who got our money and why. if ben bernanke has not resigned by the day i am sworn in, i will ask the congress to pass a law ending his term. we need a commission on gold and solid currency, much like the one that ronald reagan had in 1981. let me close onto big topics. they're very important. this administration is waging war on religion, but so are the courts. this is why we need a movement

that is bigger than beating obama. we need a movement that understand we will change the congress, the white house, the bureaucracy, and where necessary, the courts. in this country was founded by people who came here in order to avoid religious persecution. a very basis of the country was religious liberty. the record document says we are in doubt by our creator. barack obama 6 to cut across those and i do not care what he -- was d.o.t. tries to cut. this man will wage war on the catholic church the morning after he is reelected. we should not trust him. we should make sure the country knows who he is. and we should mak[applause]

for those of you do not understand what a bold solution approach is, go to newt.org. there is a 54-paper that outlined how to rebalance the judiciary and how to reestablish the right of the people to protect themselves against judges you are writing the constitution rather than enforcing the constitution. it is a very serious topic. finally, this administration, which lies about to our enemies are, it refuses to tell the truth about what threatens us, is blind to the dangerous, seeks to weaken it our defense system, has crippled our intelligence system, and is making a series of decisions around the world that are stunning in their misunderstanding of the nature of reality. we have americans held hostage in egypt. precisely like jimmy carter with

hostages in iran. we have the person who helped us find osama bin laden has been arrested by the pakistan government. what more do you need to know? they said, this is terrible, how could you help the americans? we need a profound national debate about our entire policy and it needs to start by telling the truth about radical islamists who seek to kill us. [applause] this is going to be a big choice, a big decision election. i am seeking the republican nomination, it has to be an american campaign. we want to say to every american, if you favor paychecks over food stamps, join us no matter what your background, no matter where do

live, we want to be with you and creating a work oriented jobs the economy. we want to say to every american, if you believe that honesty about our enemies, strength and our defense is vital to our survival, join us. we do not care for you once were. we do not care what he once did. finally, we need to say to every american, if you believe in the declaration of independence, you believe in the constitution, and you believe in the federalist papers, we want you to be with us. we understand others will be with barack obama and radicalism, but everybody to believe that we are in doubt by our creator -- endowed by our creator, we want you to come from every background, every community in the country. i need your help. i hope he will go to newt.org.

we are running a people campaign. we do not have the money that some of our competitors do. but we do have a plan. we have a conservative dream team. hermain cain, rick perry, oliver north, a tremendous team. in the end, we need you. if we can be together, and all the years i have worked with this party, this is the year to reset this country in a decisive bold away. we need to teach the republican establishment a lesson. we are determined to rebuild america, not to manage its decay. with your help, that is what we will do. god bless you.

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♪ >> ladies and gentlemen -- >> [inaudible] how do you deal with it? how do you stand it? i simply replied, i take a

stroll through andrew breitbart 's timeline, and then i feel i am in perfect company. [laughter] the tolerance left loves to hate. >> i am so sick of the media dictating the terms of the narrative. i am so sick of having to be apologetic for who i am. i am so sick of people in middle america being called flyover country. >> conservative -- >> the one thing they hate is when you call them racist.

if racism is not the whole of the tea party, it is in its heart. >> i think you get -- it is anti-government, highly promoted by the right wing conservatives. >> the left pits people against each other. i do not want to live in that world. ♪ >> he said you were involved. >> you are very racist. >> it is going to come to light. >> let me ask you one question -- yes or no? >> the left has stood for to try to get those with whom they disagree to shut up.

the tea party movement and sarah palin and michele bachmann and all of the people who've gone out there against the mainstream media and said, you are going to call less racist? -- call us racist? [applause] >> it makes you happy to be a conservative, doesn't it? to combat all the heat, from say you areitime i will appreciated for standing up against media of bias.

i will tell him he is respected for not letting his conservative message be silenced. on his birthday i wished him 43 liberals to digest for fun. i did these things to let him know he is not alone and that he is needed in case another congressman anthony the size to show his weiner. if you cannot sell freedom, then use chalk -- then you suck. i would like to introduce my friend, andrew breitbart.

♪ >> i am working for you with your glitter gloms. bring on the glitter. everything has changed. everything has changed in the last few years. conservatives used to take it, and we are not taking it anymore. just today as i was planning one of my stupid, silly, funny tricks, i did not have to because i got word when i was doing a radio show that 200 of us went to the occupy people

to say we are here, we are proud to be conservative, and we are not one to take your -- i did not say if. i am on tv right now. my mom is watching. it is over. it is over. right now my twitter feed is calling me a big fat homosexual. hello, children at home. that is how the left rolls. every asks me, white do you do that? i cannot tell you how many people how many people i admire. hugh said i should not be doing that. professor, on this issue, i disagree. because they have held over our heads with contempt the false

narrative of their intolerance. i live it every single day, and weet it to remind them who they are. this next race over the next year, everybody asks me to come here to speak about tolerance and unity. i will get to that later. this is mine war cry -- this is my war cry into the as and 12. you need to join me in this war against the institutional left. this is not your mother's democratic party. duh. this is not your mother's democratic party either. you know whose party is? well, this sunday, thanks to

tucker carlson, i had the chance of a lifetime to spend and in changing -- and enchanting evening with bill and bernadine. a super bowl party from hell. people said on twitter, you are paling around with terrorists. i'm still going to destroy everything they stand for, even though bill is the best damned cook i have ever experienced in my entire life. you have no idea how good his succulent ribs were. his butternut squash, the carrot with a hint of ginger soup, which is extraordinaire. the white fish, the selections of wine at this dinner.

had dinner with the 1%, my friends. bill and bernadine dorn. i thank you for the bottom of my heart. you were charming. i mean that, you were, but then again, so was ted bundy. it does not mean that much. i have a thesis about who we are fighting against. this is the hard left. i thought when i graduated in 1991 that ponytail that i left in my humanities class was just going to retire in the shady acres of academia. i had no idea that these people were absolutely serious about the malarkey they were teaching. unfortunately in 2004, the

radical left did they could inome -- did a coup d'etat the democratic party. that was the end, and after the 2010 elections, the dlc went under. what do we get now in barack obama? i have video is. this election we're going to vet him. we are going to vet him from his college days to showed you -- to show you why racial division and class warfare are central to what hope and change was sold in 2008. the videos are going to come

out. the narrative is going to come out, that barack obama met a bunch of silver ponytails in the 1980's, white bill and -- like bill and bernadine, who said one day we would have the presidency, and they applauded and they oversaw hundreds of millions of dollars in the challenge and they had real money, from real capitalists. then they became communists. we got to work on that. that is a parenthesis. barack obama is a radical we should not be afraid to say that. and barack obama was launched salon.ll and bernadine's

have been there. it began a truth to me that there is your chance this incredible chef did not cook many a meal for barack obama. did not tell me abc and cbs that i cannot posit that theory because it is a self-evident truth, just like he was with jeremiah right and likes when he was at harvard he was advocating for the worst of the worst joined the faculty, radicals and beirut on the charles. and that is on who -- and that is who is in the white house and who is outside now telling you do not have the right to be here and who would squelch your free speech just as easily they do at harvard, faster, yale, wesleyan -- they are a bunch of

totalitarian freaks. and they pal around with our friends in the mainstream media. i always thought the people in the media elite to the left. i thought my neighbors in the media linked to the left, but when they act like a provost at a politically correct university and tell people to shut up, i do not think they cannot be call objective journalists. they had been part of the demonize asian of good and decent people. when they failed, just like their desire to create a rush ed there, they've want to party, and what did they create? they created the occupiey

movement? it is a natural organic group of people. you have never seen these people before in your life. these people protested against you at the gop welcoming committee in 2008, and two of them were arrested for planting -- for trying to use molotov cocktail is against the police. the radicals against the police, the radicals against you, exactly like occupy. these are the same people that organized camp casey at crawford. it is the same radicals, they have been in your life since senator bob obama has become part of your vocabulary. they are at war with you. the media looks the other way.

you are domestic terrorists, you know? when this group emerged about what happened? they exhibited traits that will probably get worst person of the year award on the show. i do not think that cho exist anymore. that is a dated joke. these people -- they strike me eight had mad. bernadine dorn, as we ended our dinner, said something very important, because she kept talking about the anti-war movement. she said she listens to espn's "mike and mike." this is my thesis. the anti-war movement was never

about anti-war. it was a community organizing tool to get barack obama and the left elected. it went away immediately. the mainstream media created the story of the year that they will not tell you this true story of what happened. this is exactly the anti-war movement. if i tell that to abc, they say that is a conspiracy theory. there is no organization going on even though we have emails to print it, or the undercover videos. that did not mean anything. it did mean a lot, actually. she told me while at our lovely dinner when i was pointing out to her, what happened to the anti-war movement? she let loose an affirmation of

everything i know to be true. the mainstream media refuses to tell you that these are the same shock troops that have been shocking us, pointing their fingers at us, trying to instigate riots cook with the police, these people are the definition of un-american. you want a unity speech, you want a unity speech, i will give you a unity speech. i do not care to our candidate is, and i have not since the beginning of this. ask not what the candidate can do for you. ask what you can do for the candidate. that is what the two-party is. -- the tea party is. confront themto on behalf of our candidate. if we did not, we lose. there are two paths.

one is america, and the other one is occupy. is america, the other one is occupy. i do not care along the way, along the way, along the way, and i am not a candidate, i am just a goofball, promised people i would shave, did not, promised i would take a shower, i got to caught up talking to everybody, and here i am, of a mess, but excited to be here, because i have realized that the republican party and conservative movement is not what abc and cbs puts on the screen. they tried to portray in the worst possible light, and when i walk through cpac, traveling to the united states to the people who care, black, white, gay, and straight, anyone willing to stand next to me to fight the

progress of left, i will be in that bunker, and if you are not in that bunker because you are not satisfied with this candidate, more than shame on you. you are on the other side. [applause] thank you. thank you. i am going to tell you right now, i want to end it on a media-bashing note, because that will uplift me. we are watching you to play the race card, msnbc. saw how you placed the reverend sharpton in a position of absurdist power. this is dadaism that they would

allow this guy to have a show. it does not make sense. unless you understand what they are doing. this is going to be the dog whistle election cycle. they tested in in 2011, so he and his pal and ed and maddow can sit there and call everyone who is caucasian racist. i heard it. that is a dog whistle. ignore it when congressman rand said against allen west. i bought a dog whistle. i bought a dog whistle factory, and i am getting new dog whistles. and we will hold you to the same standard that you told us, which is an impossible one, and you will have a hell of a time because america has fallen to

your tactics, and we are coming to get you. thank you very much. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> ladies and gentlemen, if you could please clear room as soon as possible so we could set up for dinner. thank you.

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>> that wraps up our live coverage of the cpac. we will be back tonight at 8:30 eastern, and we will have more tomorrow starting around 3:00 05 eastern with the chairman of the national republican senatorial committee. that is texas senator john cornyn followed by remarks by grover norquist and the release of the cpac presidential straw poll. after that is a speech by sarah

palin. if you missed any of the speakers, you can watch them on line at c-span.org. >> when lincoln was shot in 1865, he was wearing a black coat made especially for his second inaugural. the cut is cared for by the national park service and displayed in the ford's theatre museum lobby. american history tv documented the process of removing it replica coat placing the original code on display for the public. lincoln's coat on "american artifacts." >> i started the book i thought this must be an american story. this is about a country that worships the religion of self- reliance. this is the latest -- a legacy

of thoreau. but it turns out we are laggards when it turns to living alone. is much more common in european nations, and even more common in japan. >> look at the growing trend of adults living alone. also this weekend, the second cousin of condoleezza rice, connie rice, on her work to reduce gang violence in los angeles and starting a dialogue between gang leaders and police. then bonnie morris. tv" every weekend on c- span2. >

>> he has been involved and this issue. he led an effort on cyber security, and published its first publication and in january 2011. give us an overview on what the threat stands for the average everyday citizens who uses the internet. >> the internet started out as a toy, but we have grown into the fabric of our economy, so when you go to the gas station, when you buy an airline ticket, it has grown in importance.

i am waiting for the day when we get internet-based cars. increasing dependence, and the problem was that when this technology was created. people did not expect to be so central, so is not at all secure. around the world you have criminals and armies who realize this is a tremendous opportunity for them, and they have not been slow in taking it. it has been getting riskier for america, and we have not done anything to change that. >> with that level of interaction, where it is the security level? is it my responsibility to put it in? >> nobody is responsible.

the credit card companies, the telephone companies, they note this is a problem and they try, and that makes an easy target. if you are a criminal, that always happens. basically no one is in charge, and that is one of the reasons we are increasingly facing big problems. >> what are some of the criminal activities that we are seeing right now, and where do you fear is going? >> two sets of criminal activities that have dominated. the first is financial crime, people who go after your bank accounts, lots of success, lots of money. you had the playstation incident. we have had from on facebook to

millions of dollars, and because most of these criminals live outside the united states, they are not caught. maybe the bigger problem is the theft of intellectual property. when the big oil companies get attack, they lose all kind of day that to a foreign competitor. crime and as be enough. the future might be more exciting because it takes the little bit of skill the cause destruction. but we are seeing those skills proliferate and actors who might not be so reasonable. what happens when people say they are anonymous get them. >> when you mentioned but most of the criminals are outside the country, you told me your first

report on cybersecurity was a best seller in what country. it tells me three things. the chinese know their networks are insecure. you are always going to be vulnerable. this will become a problem in the bilateral relations with the u.s.. they are afraid that because they have made extensive use of hacking as a tool for espionage. they have been successful because we are so ill-prepared. when the chinese think of it they see it as a a big opportunity.

more and more ways to be interconnected. you worked for congress this week. i want to play you one clip. it is one of the companies that sells internet protection services to consumers. here is what she had to say. [clip] the idea is to catch the addresses that are spreading across the internet, and that goes to the threat position. i cannot forecast the weather from all the different states or countries, and that comes from the enabling information sharing, but to detect something it should not do.

that is when we have resilience. the analogy is a disease in a body but it will never hurt you. we have to let many abstractions in and have to be resilient to that. king at internet security. was there a consensus across washington should do to that? >> no, i know is a shock. people are doing similar thoughts. we have gotten that far, but when you take the next step, what do we change to, it falls apart. it is going to be a tough year, and this will be harder to solve. some say that an election year

is not the best time to get major legislation, i would agree, but we are faced with a growing problem and we will not be in to fix it absent new legislation. host: many of you are communicating to us using facebook and twitter, and our topic is the growing threat to individuals and whether or not washington should have a role, whether or not it belongs to the commercial community to have the responsibility. phone numbers are on the screen. we will take your calls. the senate is working on a legislation, and here is one example of data breaches. they're working on cyber security reform bills.

guest: there are a number of provisions that are good, but not critical. we will need to improve the work force. there is emphasis on research and development. another mom and apple pie kind of thing. nobody says research and development is that. you have that federal information security management act, and portions of the bill provides this spirit that is good, too. the crux of the matter is the ability to tell acquittal if for schroeder service providers that they need to pick up their game and there is no real agreement there. there is an effort to dilute that. host: talk about why there is not some emerging consensus. why is this a partisan issue? guest: some of it is the debate we heard, which his government

is the problem, big government needs to get smaller, and regulation is bad. no one disagrees it is over regulation, but there are some things like national security and public safety or the markets will not deliver. the best way to think about this is how many people would be comfortable at st. regulation is bad, the government needs to be smart, let's get rid of the faa and that airlines provide for safety? they do their best, but you need that additional incentive that comes from regulation. host: here is some coverage from the senate debate. here is a bit of what was written -- the plant that could bolster the ability to regulate industries --

host: we will start with a tweet. guest: they're better than not having one. if you do not have a fire wall, statistics suggest your computer will be taken over with and about two or three minutes. are there sophisticated opponent who can beat them? absolutely, that you can bring the risk that by using this stuff, and there are freeware and for-purchase versions. host: what does that mean? guest: 90, probably in russia, has put a program on your

computer, and instructions to be looking for any file that has the word "password" in it and sending the contents back to russia. it could be credit card information. it could be turning your computer into a slave computer it they use slavespam. lots of opportunities. these things -- we found botnets that millions of computers in than. botnets are just frequent. host: who does the best job in protecting computer security? guest: right now everybody is in a bad place. people identify these and put them into operation.

the european countries are pulling. and official told me we will probably end up doing better than the americans because we do not have the same kind of regulation. currently, everybody is vulnerable. host: there is a piece this morning. he writes about the potential fracture but in the u.s. and europeans over cloud-based privacy issues. he says -- host: what does that mean? guest: when you look at it, at

the end of the cold war, we thought democracy won and we do not have to worry about authoritative regimes any more. we were wrong. we treasure freedom of speech. we believe in democracy. somehow when it gets into the details, we find ourselves fighting with each other and not with the people who have authoritarian the use. that means we are moving to computing as a service. it started out as a hobby. now, you are going to see it as a service. you just turn on your mobile device. when it becomes a service, the data and processes will be stored somewhere else. host: the next call is from boston. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call.

i have a series of very short questions related to every citizen out there using the internet. what is the threat right now to a cyber attack, losing your money online or in the banks or a financial institution? like our banks and financial services, if they are susceptible right now. what can i find out about resources online or otherwise about what my rights are? as a citizen in terms of if something like that happens, what the laws r. also, what can i do to protect myself to take pro-active-type choices to put myself at not as

much risk? host: thank you. guest: a place to look is the federal trade commission. they will tell you what your rights are as a consumer. what you can do, as we discussed with the earlier question, you need to have some type of anti virus software. you need to have that fire wall turned on. you need to do with the updating of programs. if you are using windows, for example, it will happen automatically. if you do not patch, you will be hacked. when people do not install them -- we find this all the time. firewall, and have virus, patching, and updating. those are crucial.

banks really put a lot of effort into trying to protect their accounts. as we all know, banks are where the money is survey of the primary target. at this point i think for the average consumer, you need to think about your credit card and your personal data and information and how that is safeguarded. cyber criminals have so many opportunities. they are going to start the top -- they are going to start at the top with the biggest accounts that they can find. i will say one thing which is u.s. law says credit holders are responsible for the first $50 of any illegal charge. host: if someone has illegally tapped your bank account, what is the recourse?

guest: to be determined. right now, the banks have been willing to compensate people. they would prefer to make you whole, give you your money back and then keep a secret. that is a business decision on their part. the levels of this are getting so high that some banks are beginning to think maybe if you were not patching or running a program, maybe i should make you pay some of the costs. as their losses get bigger, you might see an effort to shift it to consumers. host: bill asks on twitter -- guest: probably not. it is a reasonable concern. certainly there are countries where that happens.

one of the things that hurt the debated the bill but with the bush administration -- every time you bring this stuff up, it comes back to that. how do i know i can trust you this time? the answer is of course "trust me" which does not a soul irish people -- which does not assuage people. we are not going to change the constitution. you are not going to lose your rights in this area of. we are so nervous about government monitoring that we have left ourselves very vulnerable. host: our guest, james lewis, has a ph.d. from the university of chicago. he worked for many years, his assignments including regional security, military intervention and insurgency, military space

programs, and he is now at the center for strategic and international studies, a think tank here in washington where he serves at -- serves as the director. very much involved in congress and their debate over cyber security legislation. "fbi hacked while congress ponders cyber security legislation." the next phone call is from a democrat in germantown, tennessee. caller: good morning. my child went on the internet and some sort of malware began to take over the computer. id indicated there was a problem and you needed to update your

account. i began to do that. it mimicked my own malware. i am a banker by profession. we got to the point where it actually asked me to enter my pin number4 my debit card. host: you got a little suspicious at that point. caller: yes. it had the colors of my bank and everything, but something was suspicious about the page. so i stopped it just short of the internet pin number. we need to check it to make sure everything is ok. i called my bank. they had pulled $99 from my

account. they immediately took care of the problem. but i have noticed that whenever i google my bank to go online and do banking, sometimes i am sent to that same site, and it is not my bank site. if companies are moving information overseas, we have been more ball honorable to these things happening -- been more vulnerable to these things happening. guest: it would be hard to increase because we are so vulnerable. we have to think about what are the rules for data as it moves from country to country. people do not realize how quickly it moves.

the cloud is basically a bunch of computers somewhere. the company shifts this data around depending on what the cost is of storage at that moment. where the biggest traffic flow is. data in california at 12:00 could be in india two hours later. it is going to be a problem. we have not thought through how to regulate that. the other issue is the ease that cyber criminals can impersonate and fool bank accounts. what you experienced was popular for a while, which was the fake anti-virus message. people who did that made millions of dollars. there were a few people in russia, they made millions of dollars off of that scam. you did the right thing.

when you go to the website or if it feels uncomfortable, if it says your bank.com, it is probably the real address. you can look at that. fraud is a growing problem and it is so easy to do. ultimately, we might get technology to fix this but it is not in the cards any time soon. host: here is a tweet. guest: one of the interesting things that has happened is that a few years ago, microsoft did just that. if you were going to work for a company that changed its mind on cyber security, it would be a microsoft. the difference between windows 98 and windows 2007 is

incredible. one takes weeks to hack. windows98 took a few hours to hack. we see companies responding to some kinds of risk. apple has done a pretty good job. the dilemma is you have some of the best computer programmers in the world are criminals so they are going to look for ways to beat those defenses. as a consumer, you may not be their primary target. we have to worry about big institutions, military targets, and critical infrastructure. if you are trying a little bit, you will get that risk under control. host: a viewer asks -- guest: unfortunately, the

upgrades are for efficiency. it is called the smart grid. you have built in technologies that were initially very flawed. i saw things that were hackable 15 years ago being built in. companies are trying to change things. the grid itself is very vulnerable. is connected to the internet and uses old software. there are problems with configuration. that means foreign hackers can get in and there is no connection between it and the smart grid. on separate networks, probably not because it is too hard. people talk about that all the time. from a practical point of view, it has never worked in the past. host: this is an e-mail from a regular viewer.

this is from chuck in fla. -- guest: there is a little truth to that. it is one of the areas where we might be able to make some progress. 5 think the real vulnerabilities are at the vulnerabilities -- i think the real vulnerabilities of the vulnerabilities that are not advertised that much. they need a lot of work but that is not entirely the explanation of the security problem. host: next is michigan. caller: good morning. i am wondering if you could comment on companies like

lifelock and their effectiveness and whether it is worth signing up for some of those things. guest: i do not know that particular company so i cannot comment on it specifically. there are companies that offer cyber security services. who is your internet service provider? maybe it is a big cable company or local phone company. they have the services that are going to reduce risk for you. my advice would be a first look at what you can get from the people you have a contract with now and then maybe think about some of these additional companies. host: if you are interested in some of the issues being debated in washington, the report that our guest helped to direct are available on the internet.

this is the latest cyber security two years later. if you just look for cyber security, 44th presidency, both first and second reports will come up. next is a call from new jersey. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to ask a question about remote access. when you have a computer problem, you let another company come into your computer. my concern is my information. on your screen, you see that you are giving them access. will there be a point where they will be able to access your computer and you will not be aware of it? guest: people are concerned about advertisers. companies who are coming in to help you are not going to take advantage of that information.

companies in the u.s. are going to follow the law and criminals are not. remote access is something you have to think carefully about and who you give permission to. host: one on our twitter community writes this -- guest: right now, it is not. it is something to pay attention to. it is so easy to hack. it is expensive and a little harder. if we ever manage to get our act together, i think you will have to worry about this. same fears. they say all of our chips come from intel, a california company, and our programs come from microsoft in seattle.

so it is a global problem. we need to find a solution. paying attention to the supply chain is one of the big growth areas. host: this is a question from twitter. guest: yeah. this. there is legitimate software that you buy and have functions that you do not know about that affect your privacy. the ftc and others are working with the companies to roll that back. then there are illegitimate programs that do the same thing, and that is a growing problem. one of the stores i thought was always the funniest is every happens, cyber criminals look

for ways to find a way to get malware related to the super bowl onto the internet because you know people will be clicking. host: the highest ever. guest: if you are sitting over there in street petersburg -- that is right. you had people downloading apps. some of them came from not so friendly places. i worry more about the legal software getting onto your computer and transferring your data. host: sasha tweets in this -- next is christopher in alabama. you're on. welcome. caller: i have a question on cyber security. am i still at risk even if i go

to a job application and put in my social security number? guest: you need to look at where you are doing it. at this point, i will tell you i do not worry about misers vote -- about my social security number. host: it is like the least of your worries? guest: if they are going to get your stuff, they are going to get your stuff. host: sobering. you are on the there. caller: hello, c-span. i thank the host. she is one of my favorite hosts. i am a long time viewer and this is my very first call. my question is to the gentleman. two questions.

first is popular web sites like facebook, google. we have heard of them being taken down, but have we ever heard of them being somehow coerced like some super hacker putting malicious code directly into facebook or twitter into it instead of a normal user clicking on farmville, they are taken to a rogue web site. the second question is is there such thing as a -- i know it is not the best security to have -- but "a central data base" where rogue web sites are kept track of where all browsers or

operating systems will alert a user if they are going to this web site? host: thank you for the call. guest: most of the anti-virus companies do have data bases of malicious sites, but they will do that for you automatically. it is just too hard to go and manually check. companies getting hacked and getting their websites taken over, it happens a lot. one of the problems we have is it is not a company incentive to it because they will lose customers. we do not get a lot of public reporting about it. host: congress is considering

this. the senate is drafting legislation and considering it. if you have suggestions for how you would like to go, -- thank you for being with us. >> we will have more from the conservative political action conference with wisconsin governor scott walker, and tomorrow more coverage starting at after 3:00 p.m. eastern with texas senator john cornyn. and grover norquist. we also get the result of cpac's presidential straw poll, and finally tomorrow a speech by former alaska governor sarah palin. sunday on "newsmakers," a discussion on energy policy. he is the chairman of the energy

and natural resources committee. you can watch that sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> when i started the book, i thought this must be an american story. this is about a country that worships the religion of self- reliance and individualism. this is the legacy of thoreau and emerson. the terms we are laggards when it turns to living alone. it is much more common in europe, scandinavia, and japan. >> look at the growing trend of american adults choosing to live alone and what that means for the country, saturday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern. sunday at 3:00 p.m., condi rice on her work -- connie rice in her work to reduce gang violence

in los angeles. then bonnie morris. >> the italian prime minister was in washington this week for a meeting with president obama. mario monti was the featured speaker at the peterson institute of national economics. he discussed the euro crisis in its potential global tax and his remarks came as greece announced an austerity deal that could lead to a bailout. this event is one hour and 15 minutes. >> i think it is fair to say that a simple syllogism sets the stage for today's meeting. the future of the world economy depends critically on the outcome of the euro crisis.

the outcome of the euro crisis depends very heavily on what happens in italy, the most important country at the epicenter of those developments. the outcome in italy will turn decisively on the success of the new italian government, led by prime minister monti in overcoming its financial difficulties and in setting the prospects for sustainable economic growth over the longer term. i do not want to put too much pressure on the our speaker by putting it that way, but he and everybody else knows that he, his government, and his policies are truly critical to italy, europe, and the global economic outlook. i believe it is also fair to say

that no one could be in a better position to respond constructively and successfully to those challenges than prime minister mario monti. as european union commissioner for competition policy, we all remember how he displayed enormous in repeated rounds of courage. he took on ge and bill gates and microsoft. he took on our good friend sergio. mario has spoken with him many times and we are delighted to work closely with him. i think it is there to say that an eu commissioner, particularly with an experience

for competition policy, he forcefully -- displayed his passion as a response and solution to underlying economic and particularly growth difficulties. we all know that is what italy as a nation, and europe as an area, need more than anything else. again, mario monti, is the ideal leader. in addition to his enormous processional accomplishments, mario monti has been a great friend of our peterson institute. he has any member of our board of directors for six years. he was the founding chairman of our partner and close friend institute in brussels. and he is the only person, he may not know this -- he is the only person to have delivered the two beattie annual lectors -- the two big annual lectures

we have here. when he gave the second in 2006, his title was, this europe have an economic future? -- does europe have an economic future? he said yes, but he cautioned, only if europe did several important things to keep its forward momentum towards integration going. he stressed, in particular, the need for structural economic reform. now, prime minister monti is in the most important position possible to make that happen. it is a great honor and privilege in personal delay to host the prime minister and to introduce him -- to host the prime minister and to introduce him. super mario. [applause]

>> thank you very much, friends. it is really very touching and emotionally heavy for me to be here with so many friends and trapped by syllogisms about the crisis in chilly, europe -- italy, europe -- i did not realize what was going to be put in front of me. i really want to underline how we all are involved in policy-

making. we have been benefiting from nstitutes and fred's leadership in this and other broader context. i think there could be no better place for me to share with a highly qualified audience a few reflections on the economic future of italy and europe. as fred mentioned, yes, i delivered a few words in 2006 on the topic of europe having an economic future. after all, europe did have an economic future. but, i think that many of the questions surrounding europe

then are still there today. of course, i feel responsibility in my temporary and time-limited role as prime minister of italy to give a contribution to the solution of those problems. the -- everybody has in mind the eurozone crisis. i think everybody should be aware, and i think everybody is aware, but not everybody in this country or in italy or in europe is aware of the fact that this has not been a crisis of the euro. the ural has continued to display -- the hero has continued to display solidity -- euro has continued to display solidity. it has not shown weakness in

terms of domestic purchasing power and in terms of external -- exchange rates. i think it is a really remarkable things. . there still is a banking and financial and fiscal crisis in many states of the eurozone. the bureau has not -- euro has not weakened. this tells us a lot about the resilience of this very very junior currency in terms of the global arena. now, just in the last few hours, we understand that substantial progress has been achieved in greece in order to overcome the worst moments of the crisis. and i do not want to pre-judge

anything about what the euro group and the relevant bodies will decide on this, but let me just step back for a moment. the greece case was the most severe and extreme and limited case than one might have imagined for the eurozone. although we can easily point to the fact that that match of what was set out for greece as a program in terms of budgetary consolidation, in terms of reforms and so on, may have come too late. may have come in insufficient requirements. i think one day, even the greek case will be seen to be proof of

the value of introducing, throughout europe, the stability that was invented in europe -- in germany through the social mark of the economy. this has been through the euro and the budgetary constraints are rounding the euro. it has been spreading throughout europe. certainly, a country like italy has benefited enormously in the late 19 90's from the pressures -- the late 1990's from the pressures that the bureau has brought -- euro has brought. the most recent economic and political experience in italy,

of which bore strange rations, i happen to be one of the components today, would not have been there if it had not been for the continuing pressures exercised by the frame work of eu policy making. if i were a german citizen, i would be proud, even looking at greece, of the fact that the most successful of all heavy engineering products from germany, the euro, through its diffusion throughout europe, has brought the principles of budgetary discipline, the market economy, and the wall that through even the most peripheral less prone part of europe --

i think that transformations that in other times would have required a generation are now being put in place. i hope they are being put in place in a non-reversible way. this remains to be seen in a couple of years. that is because of the strength of the culturtal reference to the value -- cultural reference to the value of the stability that the euro has allowed us to share. economic and monetary union woes are there. a jigsaw were some key pieces were missing when i last was here to deliver a few reflections in 2006. as we know, it was both an economic and political project

that was meant to complete the european single market. i think i said on that evening here, the euro is meant to be the cherry on the cake of a single market, but many of the problems were coming from the fact that the cherry had been put in that position, but the cake was not yet completely there. [laughter] given the still very imperfect stage of european real economic integration. the institution of -- and framework of the monetary union is being reset to tackle the flaws in its design and operation that it brought to the light. most crucially, tools to resolve the crisis have been established within the european financial stability funded -- starting with the europeans to bid -- european financial stability fund.

the rule book of the stability and growth factor has been updated and enriched with sharper rules. can i interject the notion that one of the main problems brought about by the euro-iran crisis has been -- euro-era crisis has been arguments about unchangeable characters of different people. sometimes constructed on the mere basis of the latitudes of their countries. of course, i t was that tool of rejuvenating forces of the stability and growth pact between germany and france, which broke down its credibility in 2003. they did not quite like submitting themselves to the

enforcement procedures. italy, although not violating the pack at that time, provided a complete -- provided it incomplete. that allowed the two large states to break the rules. after all, it took from 2004 until 2012 to rebuild the a credible pact. of course, that was made even more difficult by the fiscal in discipline, particularly in some southern countries. it traveled along the wide open road created by the non- acceptance of the rules by germany and france in 2006. we all have a responsibility to

build a better european integration and many, if not all, have to share in the responsibility of having not always operated in the right direction. i think european integration can be built all the better, the more we are all modest in assessing our performance relative to that of the other. the principles of budgetary discipline will shortly be enshrined in the nation of constitution. all member states have committed to be near a balanced budget by 2015. so far, the main focus has been on the austerity and fiscal consolidation. yet, struck to reforms are as important as fiscal discipline

for the long-term future of europe. fiscal discipline rules, and a commitment to sound public finances can help european member states overcome the blocking powers of lobbies and special interests. the vetoes have led to national abuse of the imperfection no institutional -- imperfection of the monetary union. the interesting current stage of the policy game in europe is precisely on how to put to rest the concentration of mines and policy energies -- minds and

policy energies on fiscal discipline. putting them to rest not because fiscal discipline would not have to be observed, but because by now, it has been really set in very sophisticated constitutional framework both at the eu and at the national level. all of the enforcement instruments are there and those -- so with the political will to comply with them. -- so is the political will to comply with them. this is a very interesting moment for all of us to concentrate more on the growth imperatives. of course, how can growth be generated in europe in a context of continued budgetary discipline? i think most of the export growth will have to come maybe

by coordinated microeconomic policies that the g-20 -- as far as the eu is concerned, mainly, it will have to come from structural reforms or supply- side measures within europe. this means that we have to really work on the cake. to make it more similar to the optimum currency that we see in the textbook. otherwise, the euro will never, although being a solid currency, will never deliver its potential in terms of economic growth and well-being. in order to make the cake a real cake, we need to have a single market.

although, we -- relative to when we were here together, many of you and i in 2006, since then, the single market has been in crisis. not in further development. why? because the backlash against integration or the integration fatigue that has been observed in many eu countries has put more and more in question the objective -- we have seen concerns in france concerning an ers thatpolish blunder erro were ready to come to france. -- blunderers thas that were rey to come to france.

we have seen growing economic nationalistic sentiments. the single market has been less and less wished for and more and more increases to development. even now in the market -- the market has been in crisis because many in europe, following the financial crisis, have been putting in question the notion whether the market economy was the best way to generate growth and employment. it is not an easy time for a single market. let alone for a grow -- for the growth of economic policy, which wanted to bet on the strongest single market. now, i think we are really at the moment where we have to work in that direction if we want to make growth a reality in europe.

as i hinted already, six years ago in this room, the thought that there are many countries with in the eurozone, which lives the life of the monetary union, which however, do not really do very seriously their job with regard to economic union. in many continental countries, large continental economies, which are key to the eurozone, we find less compliance with the rules of the single market tough competition, of market openness then we find on the emerging countries like the u.k., thesek, sweden, poland -- do not belong to the eurozone, but they are more compliance and

more intellectually in line with market principles. this can perhaps explain why my government in italy is investing a lot in, of course, making use of the fact of having been readmitted to the meetings with the heads of governments of germany and france. and to play with them in order to provide help to the eu processes. we invest more than either of these two in the relationship with the u.k., with poland, that is with countries which, although not belonging to the eurozone, a or not yet belonging to the eurozone, can put pressure on us for us all to

become a bit more of an economic integration -- economically integrated and to see. -- entity. prime minister cameron, on the occasion of the european council on the ninth of december, where he finally decided not to stay on board with the fiscal agreement, he did not go down the road to that we have suggested for britain. price in order to stay on a treaty that is politically painful. please ask for an acceptable price, like a stronger commitment on the part of the eurozone countries to except it.

it would have been in the interest of the u.k. they should accept the deadlines. do not ask for conditions that we could only -- because they would be -- he asked for a limited role on any future decisions on financial regulations, which we could not accept. it was not accepted. this has just been an observation on the link between the policy cooperation lines that can be established within the eu and the different degrees of adherence to the key

elements of this set of countries, the fiscal discipline growth, the single market, it said iran -- etc. if a country wants to be coherent, if it pushes at the eu level in order to see a complete policy with deadlines, which we hope we will get to in order to stimulate growth through more single market's, amongst other things, then that country has to be coherent domestically. not only will it have to comply with budgetary rules, but we will also have to be even more insisting of structural reforms domestically so that it can have a market which can cope with the challenges of being in a more and more real single market.

these are the two plant, budgetary consolidation and more reforms that our government is committed to in italy. i kept the objective that my predecessor, prime minister polis ghani -- berlusconi had with other countries. that was done and i think it can explain the fact that the intolerant -- the italian government has accepted to balance the budget by 2015. a couple of years before the other member states. after a very quick reflection, we decided to speak with that commitment although some macroeconomics researchers do

not think that is the optimal course. from a political point of view, we have lost any authority and ability to influence development if we had presented ourselves first with a demand for more leniency. we put together quickly a package adopted by a decree law and then quickly converted into law by the -- by the parliament to achieve this balanced budget by 2015. this implies a 5.5% of gdp primary surplus. that would be the highest in the euro area. we have introduced, by decree law, something unheard of in italy and other member states. most of them had a history of structural reforms.

a step to reform -- a structural reform going into a contribution base system with the increase of the retirement theto 67 -- the retirement age to 67 for men by 2017. this was done by decree law. we only had three hours of general strike, which means that -- no, i say this not to mention the weakness of the labor unions. they are not weak. i want to stress the maturity of the italian public opinion, including the labor unions, which accepted a major -- when president -- sarkozy could not believe that we had people -- we have done that structural reform. we proceeded in the month of january to a package again by

decree law -- this would be the politically most difficult, but we will see in the next few weeks, i think we will bring home the conversion into law by the parliament with minimal changes to the package. -- to introduce much more competition and opening up in areas ranging from the liberal -- liberal professions to the -- to a topic that one gentleman at one of the states has been following very closely with a high degree of responsible awareness mixed with concern about the unbundling between the gas generation and

the gas distribution systems. so all things going in the direction of more competition and open this, which i believe could only be done through a very strange government like the present one, which as many of you will note does not enjoy a structured majority of a coalition of parties but enjoys or so far has enjoyed the comments -- the current common sense support in parliament apart is which hardly speak to each other, coming as they do from a highly belligerent past. but they are supporting this effort, but, of course, they support this effort only if whatever we do -- budgetary

consolidation or structural reform -- is bold enough and politically costly enough because one, these are the things they could not have been putting in place, and second, if a party from the right hast to support a reform, squeezing out some rents from the liberal professionals, which in their constituencies, they will accept this only if we do a pension reform. for example, in the area which is more a constituency of the left with equal boldness. so there is a virtuous mechanism of distributing pain in and homogeneous way, which makes -- which ensures that we maximize the number of people who are

unhappy. [laughter] but at the same time, we seem to have, for the time being, convinced the public opinion at large that these were necessary things and, for reasons which i cannot really understand, the general trend of the government policy seems to be supported by a very high percentage of the public opinion, which opens up, in my view, a very optimistic consideration of that the italians namely, it is not that they resist being governed. they have a pent-up demand for governance. it was the political system that was perhaps a bit resistant to supply that governance, the decision making that the people

were already en may be willing to see in place. final point -- i think there is -- i forgot i do not want to give anybody the impression that we forget the labor reforms. this is the third big pillar. budgetary consolidation, liberalization and competition and labor reform. there, we cannot even -- there are negotiations going on. they will be concluded by the end of march, and they are being oriented in the direction of reducing -- this is something the imf, eu, oecd have recommended -- reducing the

uneven treatment between insiders and outsiders who cannot get in, mainly the young. and also changing the nature of some social protection mechanisms so as to reduce a bit the distance between italy and some nordic countries in having more lax security. namely, a closer compatibility between the labor market made more flexible and and modernized system of social protection sent out on the individual worker, but not on the individual job, as was the case for so many decades. this, ladies and gentlemen, cannot be -- of course, it cannot be an unbiased report

that i am is submitting to you because i am is certainly very biased, although i as well as my ministers -- i was saying that i am a dilettante, like my ministers, but we have with us the foreign minister. no, we should have had the foreign minister, but he had a meeting at this time with the secretary of state. we are putting together this strange experiment, and we cannot say how the final results will be, but we do feel that -- but the exaggerations'

we feel there is a link between the degree in which italy succeeds in shifting from being a problem to being an element of a solution, and i think we are rather advanced in that. but the degree to which this experiment will prove successful in italy and the degree to which italy will be able to exercise influence on the overall course of policy making towards a compact for growth in a fiscally compacted europe. i feel, we feel there's a great similarity between a feeling of policy perspective between the u.s. and the eu in this respect,

and this is an addition of huge interest and commitment in our part in washington today, and i hope that although i have been exceedingly long, that there will be some time for us to be able to benefit from your and the other guests critical remarks and suggestions. thank you very much. [applause] >> mr. prime minister, thank you enormously for that very encouraging outlook and report. we are all slowly supporting you, encouraging the success of what you have said, and we are very heartened to hear your

report. let me ask you to elaborate may be in a couple of areas. you have, quite rightly of course, stressed the need to go beyond the need for fiscal austerity, to marry it with growth strategies. tell us a little more about your growth strategy, both for italy and for europe. what is a reasonable expectation for recent economic growth in italy? once the fiscal consolidation takes place, your structural reforms begin to take effect. what could we look for as a growth target for italy over the coming medium term, and can you give us any estimate of the extent to which the reforms you are now putting in place might generate that growth? any quantitative estimates on

what kind of payoff from your policy? then, at the european level, in your fascinating interview that was in the "wall street journal" yesterday, you talked as you did some today about the need for europe as a whole to adopt structural reform, including germany. elaborate a little bit there, too. what specifics do you have in mind? what are the priorities? and what could be the payoff in terms of a resumption of european growth within the next two or three years? >> yes. the prospect for growth in italy -- well, first of all, growth in italy will be necessary not only for the sake

of growth and the reduction of unemployment, but also in order to make the improved budgetary situation sustainable. i think it is very interesting that since about one year, even rating agencies are putting much more emphasis on growth as a necessary condition for budgetary sustainability. of course, we are not putting in place a strategy for growth from the demand side, but -- what do i mean? that's certainly, we are not compensating the deteriorated

and estimates for real economic growth in italy and elsewhere in 2012 but additional demand stimuli. clearly, we're not doing this. but i believe that if the markets see the improvements in the policy outlook for italy and in the sustainability of the budget, they will deliver a benefit to italy in the form of lower interest rates. we have been plagued by a very high interest rate on medium and long-term treasury bonds. the spread between the 10-year treasury bonds and the german

bonds reached 574 basis points on november 9, the moment in which the political scenario changed in italy, and since has come down to the 344 of this morning, which deserves two remarks. one, the coming down of short- term interest rates has been much more remarkable, much bigger. this leaves many people to believe that there are some political uncertainties that are keeping up the longer-term interest rates linked to what might happen after the new elections in italy, but there, i would like to be a bit reassuring. one element which goes in this

direction -- many of you will have seen it -- is the interview that mrs. berlusconi gave last week supporting more openly than ever before the current government -- and the committee to support over in the medium term. now everything can change, but i think this provides italy with a perspective of stability in that particular political sector where most people were seeing a potential source of instability. interest rates are coming down, more the short term than the longer term. i believe that is if they squeeze -- if this potential explosive gets out of the way, this process of declining interest rates will accelerate and, hence, i think we carved out through what we did on the

budget, a bit of a support for growth through lowering interest rates on treasuries but also indirectly on bank loans to companies. and then, there is the more supply side. we saw the -- a work done by the oecd on structural reforms, one of their fields of specialty, but they did a specific work on the sort of liberalization measures that italy has been now introducing. they come to -- they and other studies of the bank of italy come to the conclusion that this opening up of markets could altogether generate a 10%, 11% increase in productivity. half of which could be there in the first three years alone.

also relatively in the short term. then, of course, we have tools that the global and european policy stance becomes more growth-generating. hence our reports with respect to the european level. and i come here to your second part of our structure reforms beyond italy. structure reforms including germany. well, i think that there is a lot to be done in terms of structure reforms country by country, which is the responsibility of the various governments, but also in part under the leverages of the european commission. for example, the fact that the european commission has now opened infringement procedures -- that as it is putting legal and political stimulus on

countries to comply with the services directive, liberalizing the services area -- and they issued most recently two infringement procedures symbolically. now, one with regard to germany and the other with regard to greece. says that even in germany, there is call for domestic liberalization, and something i normally try to convey to our anglo-saxon friends -- there is not much hope to persuade germany to play the growth came through and more keynesian frame of mind, but i think they are more likely to respond positively if one tells them to fully go in the direction of their invention, the social market economy of the 1950's and

1960's. open markets, and i believe that if germany fully went to the opening up of its domestic services sector, that will stimulate its own growth as well as through increased exports of services from other member states to germany, the whole of european growth. lastly, there are some policies -- not domestic structure reforms of member states, but policies which have come up in my view, to change in order to reflect this growth orientation now that we are no longer an undisciplined continent, but actually, the most virtuous in the world in terms of but it. that means in particular, much more resources devoted -- many

more resources devoted to the eu budget and to cross-border infrastructures, for example. and although i happen to be also a finance minister, i will not buy the argument put forward by my colleagues, the finance ministers, saying the deal puts a lot of pressures on us to contain the national budget, and certainly, we are not ready to have in the future a greater eu budget, but i think this makes no sense because it is a matter of economies of scale and a provision of public goods, some of which can only be provided at the level of the eu, so i think it will be important, but will implied it difficult change in mentality, and we are working towards the important, that the

whole of the eu policy stance becomes more growth-oriented, and this will in the and also generate some demand expansion across europe without which purely supply side reforms will not in themselves generate growth. >> let me ask you again to elaborate on a couple of comments you just made about your the evolution of europe. you are now prime minister of europe, but for a long time, you have been one of the architects of year. you have written on your, not to mention your 10 years and lamenting as commissioner of europe. as you have work to wait through the current crisis, what do you

see as the medium to long run outlook for the european union as a whole and for the future prospects of the integration exercise? millions have observed that europe has faced many crises over its five or six decades, some were existential. out of all of those, you're did seem to come out stronger and move forward. will that happen this time? >> i think this is happening this time already. we are moving, perhaps without being aware, towards some degree of even political union. the crisis has brought about an unexpected acceptance by national governments of a much

greater coordination at the eu level of national budgetary policies. since last year, the so-called european semester is in place. this means that each of our governments has to submit to the european commission and to the european council of ministers. in the first half of the year, before it goes to the national parliament, a draft budget. this is incredible if you think of it. this was asked by the european commission for years and years and always rejected by a member states. but now it is in place, so this is one aspect. then, the acceptance of a much

enhanced economic surveillance and the process of structural reforms and member states, so there is acceptance of more operational instruments of supervision by the eu, so the in itself slow structure of the 27 or 17 members of the euro area has moved considerably, thanks, one should say, to the great crisis. if it -- to the greek crisis. if i look in five years' time, i would imagine a your area that would have a composition more

numerous than the current one. i do not see honestly country's going out of the euro. i see some countries coming in. in the next few years. i believe that the permanent crisis management system, which we will put in place soon, will be there as an ordinary instrument for crisis management. the crisis forced us to update the machinery. i believe that we will see a shift in the functions.

for example, there is slow process, which in my view will accelerate tax coordination, a very sensitive topic, but it is going ahead. so tax policy will be slightly more centralized, but on the other hand, some policies which have been running brussels for decades, as if it were in an incubator, are now ready to be delivered in a governance through network system. this is the case of competition policy, which in 2004 was largely outsourced to the national competition authorities, although keeping a brussels coordination. i would imagine a europe which will be not necessarily more cumbersome, but focusing on its core business.

the core business of europe will evolve over time. but the ability to respond to crisis, luckily enough, is still there. the worst-case scenario, of course, would be to have a crisis and no ability to respond to them. the best case scenario would be to have an ability to modernize your structures, even without crisis. we are not so virtuous yet. >> i have one more question and then i want to open it up. you met with the congressional leadership this morning. you are going directly from here to the white house to meet with president obama. what can the united states, the rest of the world more broadly, do to help you? and is there any specific role for the international monetary fund in coming back into the

picture as it did at the outset of the crisis to help support the resumption of stability? >> this is a moment where the german chancellor has, for two months, very constructively asked me, "what can we do more for you?" maybe this will and also the question by president obama. it did come up in the meetings this morning with congressional leadership. i think italy is not in a state where it needs financial support. but it needs better governance

and it wants to contribute to better governance. this has largely to be achieved within your. for example, i think we came to a deep, common understanding with germany that anything which would improve the perceptions by the market's that the eurozone is well covered in terms of readiness to put down problems through firewalls will actually applied a very small probability that financial results will have to be used because they will be credible enough for the mere fact that they are there. with the u.s., i think this will

be the topic of my conversations in -- i do not know. i hope i will not be late. >> we will get you there on time. >> how, given the fact that the u.s. is struggling to have budgetary consolidation, as we would call it, and is oriented towards growth and we are doing exactly the same in a different institutional complex, how we can develop synergies in order to do this more easily. as to the imf, well, there is a prominent figure i would say that the imf is playing a key and constructive role. i think the imf is right when

they are concerning crisis managements and the financial firewalls. we cannot do more these of the europe unless the europeans -- we cannot do more vis-a-vis europe unless the europeans want to do more with the fire wall. perhaps we should see room for improvements also on the part of the imf with having a broader understanding of the specific situations with the strict

adherence to a model that might prevent a pragmatic solution to a problem. it is my understanding that many of us in europe, including the member states, believe that this is the moment to consider that if there is a minimum of compliance, this is a moment to turn the page and extinguish the

greek explosion. >> the floor is open. we have two standing microphones in the bike. -- in the back. we have a question in the back and one over here. >> the greek program will in the -- apparently include a retroactive clause, a retroactive rewriting of bond contracts. will this not impose a risk for bondholders and a higher price for issuers of local bonds such as italy or any other deficit country? is there not a risk for issuers aside from greece who he will now have to pay more because greece is rewriting contract law. it was originally denied by

greece and the ecb this would happen. now that it has, how credible is the assertion that this will be confined just to greece? is there a cost to the rest of european issuers because of the rewriting of bond contracts? two things. -- >> two things. it has been clearly said that the role given to the psi after the meeting between germany and france has solved -- has caused a lot of problems. it will not become a permanent feature of policy. secondly, i am returning the question to you if i may, do you believe that the risk of

countries rewriting contracts was already largely inc. in the markets and therefore interest rates already -- i believe the answer to be yes. i do not believe this would worsen the position of the italian treasury in the market. where as i do think once the stage is turned, the benefit will be available for every issuer and the market's overall themselves. >> next question over here. >> when you were responding to fred's question on the future of european integration, you did not talk about banking sector issues. we now have the banking

supervisor assessing the results of the stress tests. they are determining what they think is needed. in terms of getting those outcomes, it is up to the individual states to try to figure out what has to be done. i wonder in looking at the future, what do you see is needed in terms of greater harmonization and strength? >> very important points. i think many politicians in europe felt our friend was too visionary when he was invoking the real e you level supervisory structure -- eu level supervisory structure. he was a visionary but highly realistic. europe has gradually moved to

that direction. i think you are absolutely right. i should have mentioned this. the banking sector is illustrative of two things. one thing i was saying earlier, there has been this affection for integration or a rejection of integration, well, the european banking system until three or four or five years ago had undergone a very remarkable process of cross border integration. following the crisis, the wish to stay closer to father and mother has prevailed. the state treasuries being the source of rescue money has

induced banks to retrench to some extent. so there has been more fragmentation in the european banking system. that is also one part -- that is because two elements of european faction is not pronounced enough yet. one is that there is still big room for a state aid. that is state aid, not eu-wide aid. secondly, there is this ambiguous situation where banking supervision is half a debate between the real eu level and the nation levels. thank you for addressing this.

europe will not make a sizable step toward being an integrated single market with a perforated policy instruments at the eu level until this is remedied. >> as the prime minister said, we have to make sure he gets to the white house on time. we have time only 40 dead quick questions. the two at the head of the line, ask your questions one after the other. the prime minister can choose how to respond to the two. >> you described germany as being the a social market economy. he said the central market in europe should become bigger. that you fear you're marked -- do you fear your message could be taken the wrong way with

republican candidates? how the response to constant allegations we hear in that the debate that europe is a socialist country and america is moving in that direction? >> my question is regarding germany but someone different. germany has grown rapidly, but they have a surplus. italy has grown slowly and has a large deficit. is this a sign of major competitiveness loss of italy vis-a-vis germany and the rest of the world? how does your plan be on structural reforms actually deal with that problem? >> can i take the second

question first? yes, the answer is unambiguously yes. italian entrepreneur is in this room will probably confirm that italy has accumulated sizable worsening of competitiveness. that explains to a large extent why italy has fallen -- they have had an average rate of growth of about one half that of the euro area. structural reforms play only in the long term. yes and no because of the

estimates i gave earlier, some structural reforms can come up rather quickly. i think the direction of policy has really to look at total productivity as you economists would call it. it means a lot of work has been done in the field of the labor market in order to facilitate productivity there. a close relationship between rewards and productivity. also a lot has to be done by remedying the elements of lack of competitiveness which are outside of the firm like huge

bureaucratic burdens. each of these can play out its effect only in the relatively long term. i think international investors are watching very closely what each country does or does not do in these areas. i perceive a view of italy as the view of a country which has very strong fundamentals and very respects. they compare very well with other countries, particularly in europe. i will not list them here. but, they are prevented from generating actual growth because of the constraints. i believe the markets will be

convinced that things will change and have started changing. i hope they will accelerate this process by moving the and on treasury bonds. i am not here to promote to them. -- i hope they will accelerate this process by moving in on treasury bonds. even the current levels are still high, 5.5% rates on medium to long-term treasury bonds in italy. it is perceived that greece is moving outside of the area and this policy process in italy is going to continue to achieve results, many people tell me once we receive -- once we achieve this conviction there is

room for capital gains on italy treasury bonds. i think something similar could happen as to achieving rather on the benefits from pro competitiveness policies. is this a speech on germany? >> no, it is not. >> i already spoke to much about germany. sorry. but the first question brings us inevitably to germany again. i am sorry. if europe has the model of a social market economy, and if i say that there will be a heavier government in brussels for

europe, how will this resonate especially with the republicans in congress in the u. mass -- united states? he is more inclined to sharpening views then it's a endicotts. -- if's and but's. the social market economy contains the market for many of our countries in europe as they were before the full impact of european integration. what europe really brings is a much more pro market implementation. most of our networking

industries colts have been achieved because of europe. europe has been a powerful sector for liberalizing the economy. and speaking about the social market economy, is that in the appropriate context that is not underlying a socialized effect of european integration? on the contrary. equally for the government of europe, i would just say that some functions will have to go up to brussels. other can be devolved from brussels to the nation or the regions. no, i do not expect a heavier brussels government.

but it is true that the border line between socialism and pro market attitudes is very thin and mo bill. i always remember a day in 2001. -- it is very thin and mobile. i remember when i blocked the merger and rejected a state french aid to a company. i was described as socialist in the u.s. press and as a dangerous new liberal in the french press. >> we can obviously go on all day. we wish to the best of luck. we are with you. we support you. we hope and pray for your

success. we welcome you to the united states. thank you very much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> c-span continues live coverage of the conservative political action conference with texas senator john and corn and. he is expected to speak at -- texas senator john cornyn.

he is expected to speak at 3:05. remarks from sarah palin at 4:30. our live coverage begins at 2:3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. on newsmakers, he mexico senator jeff bingaman discusses whether a divided congress can tackle energy. "newsmakers" sunday 10 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern. >> just so i remember, here is the wonderful moment when the senator lott revealed his install just four states right segregationist south. take a look. >> when strom said --

>> josh marshall on the internet and his websites the emergence into the breaking news business. >> the ecosystem is such a different world today than it was 10 years ago. i think things like that happen all of the time now. i know there is certainly many big stories that they have had over the last decade. now more and more we have an editorial staff of more than breaking -- 20 people breaking stories right and left. it has become almost commonplace. it is not nearly as rising today as it was back then. he talks more about t p.m. and a josh marshall on c-span is "q &a."

>> this is a country that worships self-reliance and individualism. it turns out we are laggers when it comes to going along. that is much more common in the european nations. it is even more common in japan. >> afterwards on "going solo," we look at the growing trend of american adults choosing to live alone and what it means for the country. also, the second cousin of former secretary of state, liza rice on her work to reduce his violence. -- condoleezza rice. "book-tv" every weekend on c- span 2. >> japan will lower its combined

corporate rate to 38%. that will leave the united states with the highest corporate tax rate in the entire industrialized world. it will make it that much more difficult to attract businesses. >> somebody said seeing tax law made is like seeing sausage made. you do not want to see it. >> it is time for american businesses to put aside our wish list and work collectively to support a more coherent and equitable tax policy and corporate taxation structure. >> this week the house ways and means to cut tax policy for publicly traded companies. follow the discussion online at these c-span video library. c-span.org/videolibrary.

>> next, eric cantor and steny hoyer discuss the house agenda for next week. this is 35 minutes. ognized. mr. cantor: thank you, mr. speaker. i thank the gentleman from maryland, democratic whip, for yielding. mr. speaker, on monday the house will meet at 1:00 p.m. in pro forma session. no votes are expected. on tuesday, the house will meet at noon for morning hour and 2:00 p.m. for legislative business. votes will be postponed until 6:30 p.m. on wednesday and thursday, the house will meet at 10:00 a.m. for morning hour and noon for legislative business. on friday, the house will meet at 9:00 a.m. for legislative business, last votes of the week are expected no later than 3:00 p.m. mr. speaker, the house will consider a few bills under suspension of the rules, a complete list of which will be announced by the close of business tomorrow. in addition, the house will consider h.r. 7, the american energy and infrastructure jobs act of 2012.

the house may also consider legislation relating to h.r. 3630, the temporary payroll tax cut continue -- continuation act. i thank the gentleman from maryland and yield back. mr. hoyer: i thank the gentleman for that information with respect to the two pieces of legislation and the suspension bills. if i might inquire, mr. leader, of the timing of the conference committee has met, as all of us know, a few times since being appointed on december 23. they were supposed to have a meeting today but apparently that meeting was canceled. we adopt add motion to instruct conferees on january 18 with only -- adopted a motion to instruct conferees on january 18 with only 16 republicans opposing and a few republicans opposing this time on a similar motion to instruct urging the conferees to report back by february 17. you know as well as anybody we will be off for president's week , work period, and we will not

be back until the night of the 27th which only gives us the two days and that evening to pass this bill if we do not pass it before the 17th. in december we almost, as you well know, did not extend the payroll tax holiday or the unemployment or the s.g.r. package. that would have resulted as the gentleman knows in 160 million americans having a tax increase. benefits lost for many unemployed americans, almost 2.3 over the next three months, and we only have three full days left before the february break. is the gentleman expecting the conference committee -- i know you put it as a possibility, but can the gentleman, mr. camp, of course, chairman of the ways and means committee, chairs that conference. can the gentleman tell us whether or not there is a reasonable expectation that we will be able to act on this bill and have the conference committee report on the house floor? mr. cantor: i will say just to

the gentleman as i said before in reflected by the vote that just occurred on the motion to instruct conferees, we, too, desire a resolution to this issue next week. i mean i think the gentleman knows we have been on this floor before in the same discussion where it's imperative for us to send signal to hardworking taxpayers of this country they are not going to have their taxes go up. it is my hope that we are going to see some productivity out of the conference committee. i think the gentleman knows my position as to why there's been no productivity, and frankly i, last week, urged the gentleman to point his arm to the other side of the capitol because it is that side of the capitol and leader reid that has been unwilling to come forward with a resolution to this issue. as the gentleman knows the house has taken its position. we believe we ought to extend the payroll tax holiday for a year and do so in a responsible manner so as not to raise the

social trust fund. but there's been -- raid the social security trust fund. but there's been no willingness on leader reid and his conferees to offer a suggestion as to how to resolve this impasse. i say to the gentleman, we are committed to making sure taxes don't go up on hardworking people in these economic times. mr. hoyer: i thank the gentleman for his comments. i'm pleased to hear that. as the gentleman knows mark zandi just a few days ago said that failure to extend the payroll tax and the unemployment insurance benefits would deliver a significant blow to our fragile economic recovery. and could cost our economy 500,000 jobs and raise the unemployment rate by the at least .3 points and lower economic growth by .7 points. i'm pleased to hear what the majority leader has said but of course we still have some concern. representative paul broun, one

of your members from georgia, i quote him, said this payroll tax holiday is just a gimmick to try to get obama re-elected. this, he said, is bad policy. representative chaffetz from utah, one of your colleagues, said, tax holidays are just bad policy. a year is pretty short. the chairman of your campaign committee, pete sessions, said, quoted in the "l.a. times," representative pete sessions of texas, who heads the house republican campaign committee, called obama's plan, that is the extension of the payroll tax, a horrible idea. he said g.o.p. candidates would have no difficulty explaining to voters why they want to let the tax break expire. and then of course the chairman of the conference committee, my good friend for whom i have a great deal of respect, apparently does not agree with what the majority leader just said in wanting to extend this

tax cut because he said, i'm not in favor of that. i don't think that's a good idea. now, that was admittedly back in august so some months ago when he said that, but it gives us some concern that the leadership of the conference committee, mr. camp, and others are in the position where they don't really think, as seem to be reflected in the last year, that this tax cut ought to be extended. they do, however, believe, very strongly, as i understand it, that the tax cut for the wealthiest in america, the bush tax cuts, ought to be extended and they ought to be extended without paying for them, and in fact you provided in your rule that you adopted in this congress that they could be extended without paying for them. i don't think that's your position, as i understand it, it -- with respect to tax cuts for middle class americans. would the gentleman like to comment on t o