"hangry."

in the meantime, joining us is author chris whipple. his most recent book is "the fight of his life: the inside story of joe biden's white house." this is one of the first books about the biden administration, isn't it? >> great to be with you. i was looking over my shoulder expecting to see bob woodward or someone else creeping up from behind. i've got two other books. the gatekeepers and white house chief of staff. the spy masters and cia directors. those are cumulatively more than 100 years of history. this book covers two and yet this was more difficult. this was a bigger challenge.

writing a book about a white house in progress is kind of like designing an airplane in midflight. you get it blown off course by events in real-time, an invasion of ukraine. you are hoping you can land the plane safely and compounding the challenge is that this is one of the most distant -- batten down, disciplined, on script, leakproof white houses in modern history. despite that, i was able to get pretty candid stories from almost all of joe biden's inner circle. >> were you able to talk to the president himself? >> it was an unusual arrangement we arrived at, which was written answers he would give me to my written questions. in the end, i think i got some quite revealing things from the

president. > where did the title come from? the fight of his life? >> you can think of joe biden's life, his whole career, as a kind of fight against adversity, against tragedy, bad luck. he lost his wife and infant daughter in a car crash. he lost his son to a brain tumor. . he lost two attempts at the presidency. his father always said get up. he did. he ultimately won the presidency. for joe biden, when vladimir putin invaded ukraine in february 2022, that became the fight of joe biden's life. >> 9/11 happened on george w. bush's white house, early on. is this the defining moment for the biden white house?

>> absolutely. my book and the biden presidency is kind of a political thriller in three acts. the first was the fraught transition from donald trump, to biden a transition that almost did not happen as we know. act two is the first year of the biden presidency, which was very tough, overshadowed by the debacle of the afghanistan withdrawal, decline in approval ratings. the third act i believe began on february 24, 2022 with putin's invasion. joe biden rose to meet that moment in a way i think no one else could have. i think certainly one of the defining tests. the other two i think historians will look at are the once in a century pandemic, and how did he deal with that. finally the third defining test of the biden presidency is how he has faced down or met the challenge, the persistence of trumpism and maga which is very

much with us. >> fight of his life, there's a lot about donald trump in this book. ways that? -- why is that? >> that's right. one thing that shocked joe biden more than anything else is the lasting power of trumpism. biden thought it would be in the rearview mirror along time ago. he had this old-school belief that he had won by 7 million votes. he had a mandate. he thought it would pass. throughout his presidency, you can tell he tried to do contradictory things. one was to unify the country. the other was to call out mag a and the threat to democracy. each tried to do both and increasingly the latter. >> you have been in washington a long time and describe the biden administration as somewhat

leakproof. how does that happen? >> joe biden has been around long enough, in government service for decades. he's seen the great white house come and go. he's seen the bad ones come and go. ron klain had a lot to do with the way this white house is run from day one. i put him in the company of the great white house chief of staff including james baker the third under ryan -- ronald reagan, leon panetta under bill clinton. he has a rare set of schools that includes white house experience, knowledge of capitol hill, deep political savvy, a very even temperament, and maybe most importantly a long relationship with the boss. what that enables the white house chief of staff to do among other things is tell the president what he does not want to hear which is the most

important thing. i think the new chief of staff has very big shoes to fill. >> what do you know about him? >> he is regarded as a managerial genius. he's made a lot of money in the private sector but he's a guy who's brilliant at making government work. when the obama health care website imploded, nobody had the foggiest idea how to fix it. they called him and he fix it. he ran the coronavirus response team and got 220 million americans vaccinated. he has a temperament that is syria -- similar. he's well-liked. the only thing he may lack is his deep political savvy and the decades long relationship with the boss. >> chris whipple is our guest.

chris whipple has a 40 year journalism career. he worked in foreign policy magazine, life magazine, 60 minutes, abc news primetime, etc. we are talking about his newest book, "the fight of his life: the inside story of joe biden's white house." phone numbers are on the screen. 202 is the area code for all numbers. (202) 748-8000 four democrats. we will begin taking your calls in just a few minutes. if you want to text a message in, you can do so. 202-748-8903. include your first name and city if you will text a message. two years in, how was the biden administration doing. >> it has been a journey and evolution. joe biden is a much better

president today than he was in late 2021. i was there at the white house the weekend that joe biden flew to europe to the climate conference in glasgow empty-handed while the build back better bill and bipartisan infrastructure bills were twisting in the wind. some people thought his presidency was in jeopardy. ron klain was on the verge of resigning. he decided to stay. he's come a long way since. i think he was uniquely prepared to rally nato in defense of ukraine and western democracy. he did that magnificently. afghanistan is another story. since then, he's had a remarkable string of legislative success which culminated in the unexpected defiance of the odds in the november 2022 midterms.

i think biden goes into his third year with momentum. >> is he going to run again? >> almost without a doubt. the only person who could talk him out of it is his most influential advisor, dr. jill biden. all indications are that she is on board. presidents do not generally walk away from the oval office easily. the last person who did it voluntarily is richard nixon. joe biden loves being president and i think he feels he has unfinished business. >> i think you meant lyndon johnson in 1968. involuntarily for the next president. >> that's right. >> let's hear from our viewers. let's begin with kathleen here in tucson. you are on with author chris whipple. >> hello. i'm so glad to get on. as you talk about, you indicated

that ron barber replaced all see gabbard. ron barber replaced gabby gifford. >> i am so sorry. that was me. of course it was gabby gifford. sorry about that. i know he was the chief of staff. i apologize for the. thank you. >> no problem. we are in tucson and we love gabby so we wanted to make sure we got that straight. thank you. >> thank you. anything for our guest? that was just for me and my mistake. [laughter] here i am correcting you and i made the mistake. let's hear from great falls, montana. talking about the biden administration. >> yes. i've been a lifelong republican until the last 10 years. i became disillusioned with that. i still live in a republican

state, republican majority even where i live. i'm just wondering, what is it going to take before people in this country will put the betterment of the country first in place of personality? >> and before we hang up on you, why did you become disillusioned with the republican party? >> because republicans, from what i have observed in montana, are more about lowering taxes for businesses than they are about providing services for people on medicaid or social security, who need a safety net. they would rather cut those and keep them solo that the living standard is so meager.

the quality of life is very poor. we are losing -- >> charlene, one final question. what is your view about joe biden? >> i am so proud of joe biden. i can't even tell you. and i have never been a democrat. i was proud of him when he went after trumpism when he was running. he called it for what it was. i'm proud that he's showing his experience in diplomacy. i thought i would never feel that way about a democrat. i couldn't even vote for jimmy carter and i was a farmer's wife. so it is a pride of change. >> thank you, charlene. chris whipple, what did you hear from that viewer regarding the republicans,, president trump and president biden? >> it seems to me her question was when will republicans stop voting for personalities and

start voting for issues that matter. i think there's no question about the fact that the republican party has been captive to a cult of personality in the form of trump. i think that the biden white house presumes, or at least is planning, on facing trump as the likely republican nominee. which is not to say it will definitely happen but i think he is still the front-runner. i think he still has a viselike grip on a large portion of the republican base. so that is the bad news. the good news is the recent midterms are referred to before, at least some indication that normal is starting to beat crazy, as mike barnicle put it at one point on morning joe. let's a story i tell in my book.

joe biden, before the midterms, wanted to go everywhere and talk about everything. he wanted to brag about his achievements. ron klain is what the white house chief sat him down and said mr. president, you will go to the following states, you will talk about women's reproductive rights and the threat to democracy from maga. joe biden ended up following that script and the rest is history. the democrats defied the odds in the november midterms. there's a good chance that will happen in 2024. >> is the biden white house hoping donald trump will be the nominee in 2024 >>? hoping would be the wrong word. i think they just assume that biden is -- that trump is a front-runner. he's wounded. he is politically weakened, but

he's dangerous. i don't think anybody knows whether ron desantis for example , one of his principal challengers, whether he's ready for prime time, whether he can really take a punch when he's on stage with donald trump. there are still uncertainties. i think it is prudent for the biden white house to plan on trump. >> brett is calling from des moines, iowa. good afternoon. >> hello. i'm shocked i got on even. thank you chris and to the moderator. thank you again. i have been a republican all my life. i voted democrat since obama.

you need to get rid of maga. and get rid of qanon. there is hope, you just need to get a split and run with it. >> are you saying that if donald trump were the nominee in 2024 would you support joe biden? >> i supported joe biden last time and i am a staunch republican. >> why is that? >> because i've seen it goes so far to the other side with all this twitter and youtube and all the other things. >> thank you so much. appreciate your time. one of the things you write about is the meeting that ron klain had with all the former chief of staff going in. what was that like? >> it is fascinating. one month before the

inauguration in december 2020, ron klain had a's doom call -- a zoom call with 19 of the 22 white house chiefs of staff. i don't think trump knew they were on the call or they would have put an end to it. they gave a wide range of advice. one thing that was fines -- fascinating is lyndon johnson's white house chief said look, you have got to make sure you take care of joe biden and make sure he gets his rest. i'm 82 years old, i recognize him. i am an expert at stumbling when i walk up the stairs. i see him reaching for words that are not on the tip of his tongue. i am make sure that lbj got a nap every afternoon and you need to be careful with joe biden. believe it or not, lbj was guess

how old when he left office? 60. joe biden will be 82 when he runs for reelection. it will be a bruising reelection battle. i think age is a legitimate issue. but all of biden's inner circle will tell you that this is a guy with plenty of energy and is firing on all cylinders mentally. >> donald trump continued a tradition of leaving a letter for his successor. didn't he? >> this is an amazing story that got very little attention. it was the afternoon of january 20th, joe biden was walking into the january office -- office the first time us president. he broke down briefly. it was emotional. one of his staffers said, mr. president, here's a letter.

he walked around the resolute desk, pulled out the drawer and there was a letter, two pages, oversized and small handwriting from donald trump. he read it, he looked up at his staff, and said, this was gracious. shockingly gracious. biden has not told anyone so far as we know what was in that letter. perhaps joe biden knows. but my question is, how do you write a shockingly gracious letter to joe biden without acknowledging that he's president of the united states? i would think if i were merrick garland, i would want to read that letter. >> that tradition has continued, hasn't it. the president leaves a letter for his successor and at the same time does not share the contents. do we know the contents of any of those? >> yes, we do and eventually we will know the contents of this.

some presidents have shared the contents later. jen psaki, that then press secretary, immediately asked joe biden, would you like us to put out a statement? and biden said no, it is between him and me. that is joe biden. he's old school when it comes to keeping confidences no matter who the other person is. >> anthony is calling in from indianapolis. go ahead with your question or comment. >> chris, thank you for writing the book. your book is titled the fight of his life. is he prepared, and i think he's making very good moves, to win or support ukrainians' unequivocal victory in ukraine, i.e. the complete expulsion of russian forces from the donbass? >> it's a great question. really important question.

there's a lot of nonsense in my view being written about a negotiated settlement between ukraine and russia, while russia still occupies land that is clearly ukraine's. when i spoke to bill burns, the cia director, about this, he said he believed that if there were any settlement, it would be a pause before vladimir putin went back for the rest of ukraine. that occupying all of ukraine is an existential thing for vladimir putin. i think joe biden believes stopping vladimir putin is existential not only for ukraine but for western democracy. i think he's been clear eyed about putin more so than any predecessors. he never looked into vladimir putin's eyes and saw his soul. joe biden knows that putin

respects one thing and one thing only. that is for spirit >> what is a -- that is force. >> what is a critique you have about joe biden's administration? >> i think i'm pretty clear eyed in the book about his successes and failures. we are trying to talk about a debacle of the withdrawal from afghanistan. i call it a whole of government failure where everyone did almost everything wrong. that began with the intelligence. tony blinken told me, the secretary of state, that everything we did was based off a fatally flawed intelligence assessment that the afghan government would last for 18 months. this was news to cia director bill burns when i sat down with him. there was a lot of finger-pointing as you can imagine after the fact as there always is when you have a defeat like that.

i think i'm clear i'd about it with failures as well as successes. >> j is in rock island, illinois. you are on with chris whipple. >> i'm calling in because to me, trump is just like hitler's. in fact, if trump gets back in, they will bring back putin because putin is exactly like trump. we have to stop somebody like that. america needs to get more educated and read up on what hitler was like. hitler went to prison before he became a dictator of germany. trump is just like hitler. american people need to stop voting for a party and religion. they need to vote for what's best for america. america is a great country if we put the right people in to run it. when you have people like trump,

trump is never ever done anything for anybody except for himself. he does not care about the people of america. the working people of america. we worked to put this together don't take it apart. and biden is a wonderful president. he has moved many things. nobody's perfect. he had to learn how other people live besides himself. he has learned all that. he's done all this. i really appreciate him as a president of the united states. and please, people get better educated. stop voting just -- >> we are going to leave it there. we appreciate it. any comments? >> well, you are not alone in that view. [laughter] i write about it in the book. the moment that triggered joe biden's run for the presidency in 2020 was the charlottesville

events. it really shocked biden. i think he felt, as one of his aides put it, that was a door he had to move faster close. >> next call, mary, las vegas. good afternoon. >> yes. hello. biden's age doesn't bother me at all. nikki haley's comments about being tested for acuity or whatever she said is a bunch of campaign rhetoric. i can see where all politicians could probably take lie detector tests, but i think he's done a phenomenal job. i don't know that i blame him all that much for afghanistan. if i'm correct, didn't we get 180,000 people out? >> that's true. >> that's a lot of people to get out and i don't know a perfect way to get them out.

. also trump negotiated a surrender with the taliban. how good could it have gone anyway since they were being let out of jail? and trump sent the kurds to their deaths. so i think biden is doing a phenomenal job. >> can i address that? she is absolutely right about this. in fairness to biden and his team when it comes to afghanistan, when donald trump had his half-baked negotiation with the taliban and set a deadline of march 1, 2020 one for the u.s. withdrawal, the handwriting was on the wall for everyone to read and the afghan government and armed forces read it. they realized the u.s. was going to hit the road and they hit the road first. i do think she has a point that it was extremely difficult for biden because that stage had already been set. >> two years into the biden

administration, there are three surviving, at this point, former democratic presidents. two republicans, i believe. has president biden reached out to his predecessors? >> that's a great question. he has. he's been very private about it. he has certainly spoken to obama. they have a really fascinating relationship. it's been described as a kind of bromance. but it is more complicated than that. they have a bond because among other things, barack obama really took biden under his wing when his son beau was terminally ill. it's a close relationship. but there's always some competition between presidents. barack obama was not thrilled at the beginning when joe biden's aides were going around saying, he's going to be like fdr, and

that guy obama, that stimulus he did was small potatoes. we are going bigger. that did not sit well with barack obama. >> didn't barack obama also say there's no situation joe biden has looked at and not gotten wrong? something about that? >> i think it is true but that was bob yates who said that -- bob gates, who said that. the former secretary who said biden has been wrong about everything. we don't have time to get into that but i could give him a pretty good argument. >> the fight of his life is the name of the book inside joe biden's white house.