we take you to a senate foreign

relations hearing on u.s. policy toward china. you're watching live coverage on c-span 3.

>> this hearing will come to order. before we start with the hearing, although they may not be here because they have other assignments as well i want to welcome three new members to the senate foreign relations committee. senators duckworth, scott, and ricketts who each bring valuable and varied experience. senator duckworth has demonstrated long him standing commitment to advancing u.s. national security and valleys to her military service and position on the armed services committee. it's a pleasure to be joined by senator scott, who serves also

as a ranking member of the banking committee, which is where he is now. of which i sit on as well. senator ricketts who served as governor of nebraska. we look forward to working with all of our new colleagues on china and other critical issues the united states faces around the world. we warmly welcome them to the committee. inside the barbed wires of china's concentration camps, guards force uyghur detainees to sing patriotic songs praising xi jinping to down out screams from torture, rape, and forced sterilizations. show them, quote, absolutely no mercy xi said in a secret speech which was leaked to the new york times. from many years, chinese leaders focus was attracted inward. but that is no longer the case, as we saw with the recent spy balloon passing over the united states. a blatant violation of our sovereignty by a country that

claims to be a responsible actor. either this was a huge mistake that some entity within the chinese government or it was a test of our resolve by xi. if it was, he got a clear answer. weather was there is this cancellation a blanket's visit to baylor beijing, or the degree recovered from the atlantic, the u.s. response -- to stand up to such brazen violations of our sovereignty. we responded with strength and i believe that is a way you deal with xi. we have to remain vigilant, because beijing is reaching beyond its borders. spreading authoritarian values by exporting a high tech surveillance tools to any dictator that wants them. wielding influence at international institutions like the united nations, so xi can block debate on critical issues that avoid scrutiny. china has made huge financial investments across the world from reports in sri lanka, two railroads in kenya, two bridges

management and logistics in the panama canal. each adding to the leverage over nations to find themselves heavily indebted to china and unable to push back on beijing's brands. this puts pressure on countries committed to democracy like lithuania when they took steps to deepen their unofficial relationship from taiwan. we think about our own posture in the wild. we must recognize that china has also invested heavily in proactive diplomacy. china now has more diplomatic posts than any other country. chinese diplomats are on the ground, making the case for china's values, pushing for chinese investment and the united states is and keeping up. while china's pouring money into africa, for example, we've got a 40% vacancy rate at our embassy in niger. chronic staffing shortfalls from mali, tomorrow tanya, to chad. secretary sharon, secretary

sherman and dr. reiner, let me be clear. i am planning a robust agenda in congress. this particular congress. china will be a big part of it. i've had conversations ranking member, working together to come together, which i think we will, on a comprehensive china legislation. today, i released a detailed 46-page majority staff committee report outlining what needs to happen to realize the administration's vision for the indo-pacific. i will give you the short version. the china challenge effects every region in the world. you're going to have to do a better job of resourcing these efforts. that means more people at our embassies, it means modernizing the way we do business and it means offering an alternative to china. secretary sherman, since the buck stops with you on china in the state department, i want to hear what you believe needs to do different sure that happens. we appreciate your appearing

before us today. i will note that the secretary will have a hard stop at about 11:15, the leadership decided to hold an old members briefing at 11:30. she needs to be there for. that we will get to as many questions as we can. i'm looking for a full, frank assessment of what the administration is doing well and what it needs to do better. i applaud the -- chips act and the inflation reduction act. although i was disappointed that ultimately the legislation did not include the senate passed strategic competition act that ranking member risch and i authored with so many members of the committee. i look forward to working my colleagues to introduce and expand upon the legislation of this congress. these efforts to secure our supply chains and increase our domestic a competitiveness are critical for american families bottom line. when it comes to our global competition, right now, china has the upperhand. i am pleased that in contracts to the last administration,

working to shore up allies and partners, this is difficult, and it is essential work. if we are serious about this competition with china, the state department needs to be more ambitious. the biden administration needs to be more ambitious. we hear in congress want to do more. right, now we've got something in congress unheard of in today's washington, on this issue's bipartisan consensus. i hope you don't squander. it while you laid out a compelling vision on paper for what we need to do, it doesn't seem to me that we have an equally ambitious resourcing strategy to make it happen. the state department you inherited is simply not for a global competition with china. it is harder for us to argue for more resources or authorities if you are not out there arguing for more yourselves. the united states has to step up and defend democratic values. not just the might of our military, but the power of our

diplomatic persuasion. i expect you to make the senate and this committee in particular a partner in this effort. let me turn to the ranking member for his opening mark. >> thank, you mister chairman, yes, we all know for a long time the china challenge is foremost on our minds. of course, along came the ukraine war, it was presents new challenges, but having said that, we can't take our eye off the ball either, since china's. we all agree the challenge of the 21st century. this hearing this plan before the unfortunate chinese spy balloon flyover last week episode highlights just how important and dressing this competition really is. china messed up publicly. but this only highlights what it has been doing behind the scenes for years. every country either on the road to take note because the chinese will do this to other countries also. secretary blinken's trick was the goods for step. i hope deputy chairman that he will shed more light on where we go from here. this was an egregious assault

on u.s. sovereignty and obviously it requires a response and it requires a plan going forward. another note, i am concerned that the administration still does not consider congress at two partner on china, i believe. i've heard about a lot of briefings and phone calls from reporters in the tank since last week regarding the balloons. the outreach to the hill were slow and sloppy at best. i have said for years that we republicans and democrats, the legit of evidence have to work together for going to confront with china is doing. without, that we will not be successful. this is not a partisan issue. this is truly an american issue and a bipartisan issue. the first place where we should demonstrate resolve is the better support for taiwan, nothing is more urgent than ensuring taiwan has the capabilities and training to deter chinese aggression. if we do not help them prepare now, we may all pay a much higher cost layer. another priority this year will

be oversight of the implementation of the taiwan enhanced resilience act, signed into law last december. it was not added when they founded in the appropriations process. i was very disappointed in this. the biden administration said over and over again that it supports security systems to taiwan,. however it did nothing to advocate for taiwan during the appropriations process. similarly, this committee and arms summit service committee has asked the administration last summer for a prioritized list of taiwan's military needs. despite repeated requests, we still do not have that list. beyond taiwan, we must counter the ccp's maligned influence both in u.s. and abroad. i expect to hear about how the department addresses issues like influence in universities, chinese police stations here in the united states and another countries and corruption. i also hear that the administration is going to counter the flow of chinese fentanyl into the united states via third countries like mexico. steps we take them extra fee, of course, matter.

china actively avoids actions that could reduce the supply of chemicals that are legally sent to the united states. various parts of the u.s. government including myself asked the chinese government to take basic steps might passing a know your customer type law. the ccp's response, it won't cooperate until we remove a chinese scientific institute from the entity list. and that we should just tell u.s. citizens not to do drugs. the chinese governments tacit endorsement of this massive drug trade is just not right. also, we need to do the chinese do more to alleviate human suffering and that the u.s. and abroad on this very important drug issue. finally, i want to highlight legislative priorities as the chairman has already stated. chairman and i have been discussed at length our ideas. china is certainly a high priority in this legislative session as we go forward. we are going to have a joint

bill, we hope, to be introduced. of course, that will include parts of the senate bill in 2021, mr. xi to competition. ask the chairman and i have already discussed collaborating on legislation this year. and look forward to working with him on that. we have the ekin act that was previously introduced, will probably be part of what we put in in our joint bill. with that, we have a lot to cover. thank you, mister chairman. >> thank you, senator risch, we look forward to working together on this. our witness today our deputy secretary of state wendy sherman, assistant secretary of defense for the indo-pacific security affairs, dr. delight rattner, i understand secretary sherman provide some opening marks, as well the assistant secretary. both will be available to answer any questions they have. our my members again, there is a classified briefing on the prc surveillance balloon

scheduled at 11:30 immediately falling this hearing. that is a setting which our witnesses may be better able to answer some of your questions on the balloon specifically. although, this hearing was called well before the balloon incident. it is focused on broader china policy. with that, secretary sherman, why don't we begin? >> chairman menendez, ranking member risch, distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. please let us add our welcome to the newest additions to the roster, senators duckworth, scott, ricketts. ian's entire state department look forward to working with you. before we address our main topic, i want to make one quick comment about the deadly earthquake in turkey and syria. the numbers of those lost keep rising. our hearts ache for the families and communities devastated by this tragedy. i know that we all express our solidarity and are doing

whatever we can for those who are suffering. and will do whatever we can to support the recovery and the days and months ahead. it is truly a tragic, tragic situation for all the people in the region. now to the subject at hand. the peoples republic of china. the geopolitical challenge, quite frankly, that will test american diplomacy like few issues in recent memory. i associate my south with both of the comments of the chairman and the ranking member about the challenges that we face. the prc is the only competitor with the intense and means to reshape the international order. a fact borne out in the prc's provocations in the south china sea. it's human rights abuses. its use of economic coercion, it's threatening behavior against taiwan, of course, what we have just witnessed and much more. last week, the american people

saw the latest example of that reality. after the u.s. government detected, closely tracked, and shot down the prc's high altitude surveillance balloon that had entered our territorial airspace. in clear violation of our sovereignty and international law. the biden harris administration responded swiftly to protect americans and safeguard against the balloons collection of sensitive information. we made clear to prc officials that the presence of this surveillance balloon was unacceptable. along the way, we learned a thing or two, which you will hear in the classified briefing about the prc's use of the balloon. last friday, secretary blinken called a director longueuil to say they would not be appropriate to visit beijing at this time. on saturday, as you all know, at the presidents direction, u.s. military successfully brought down the balloon off the east coast. this lawful and delivered action was achieved with no harm to civilians. with maximum ability to recover

the payload. again, more to say about this in the classified briefing. i look forward to joining you in that briefing, to go through the full details with my interagency colleagues. our response to this incident reaffirmed our core priorities as the president said tuesday evening. we will always act decisively to protect the american people. we will never hesitate to defend u.s. interests and the rules based international order. we will confront the dangers posed by the prc with resolve and keep demonstrating that violations of any country's sovereignty are unacceptable. this irresponsible act put on full display what we longed recognize. if the prc has become more repressive and more aggressive abroad. it reinforce the need to double down on our strategy, invest, align, compete. simply put, with legislation like the bipartisan chips and science act and the bipartisan infrastructure law, we are investing in the foundations of

our strength on our shores. we are also modernizing artwork at the state department as the chairman has implored us and the ranking member to do. to mobilize our embassies and resources to take on this challenge. particularly through the china house, which we stood up with your support in december. we are aligning with like-minded allies and partners overseas with the g7 and the eu, the tough work the chairman talked about. with japan, south korea, australia, thailand, the philippines, with india, with countries on every continent. we have made a concerted effort to share information that reinforces the scale of the threats posed by the prc. and then necessity of unity and confronting them. we don't seek another cold war, but we do ask everyone to play by the same set of rules. investing in ourselves and aligning with our partners. strengthening our hands to compete with the prc. with authorities provided, with bipartisan congressional support, we will keep pushing back against the prc's

aggressive military, diplomatic, and economic practices. we will continue to oppose beijing's unlawful acts in the south and east china seas. hold accountable those involved in human rights violations into vin john, support the people of hong kong, and do everything possible to bring home unjustly detained americans. if i'm, a mr., chairman i would ask for just a few more seconds for opening remarks. we will continue to war the prc against providing military support to russia, crack down on prc entities engaged in our activities, and address the prc's transnational repression including as the ranking member mentioned the overseas police station to restrict the chinese diaspora. almost done we will continue to prevent the exploitation of u.s. technology to its own military modernization. we will continue, i'll be glad to answer questions, about working for peace and stability

across the taiwan straight. we may remain candid to our long-standing one china policy and oppose any unilateral changes to the state status quo. our policy has not changed. what has changed is beijing's growing corrosion. so, we will keep assisting taiwan in maintaining a sufficient self-defense capability. through it all, we have and will maintain open lines of communication so we can responsibly manage the competition between our countries. we do not seek conflict with the prc, we believe in the power of diplomacy to prevent conflict where areas of cooperation are vital for our own interest in climate and public health, to food security. anywhere it can enhance u.s. interest and global peace and security. as president biden says in his state of the union, quote,

today we are in the strongest position in decades. to compete with china, or anyone else. adding that, quote, winning the competition with china should, as the chairman and ranking member have said, unite all of this. with your bipartisan support, with the resources approved by this committee, as the chairman has challenged us on, we will stand unified in the face of this challenge. thank you very much, mister chairman. >> thank you, secretary rattner. >> chairman menendez, ranking member risch, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on u.s. policy towards the prc. the national defense strategy rightly identifies the prc as the defense department's facing challenge. this is because, as articulated in the administrations indo-pacific strategy, the prc is, quote, combining its economic, diplomatic, military, technological might as it pursues in fear of influence in the indo-pacific and seeks to become the world's most influential power.

and quote. china's military is central to these aims. in fact, in recent years, the prc has turned to the pla as an instrument of coercive statecraft in support of its global ambitions including by conducting more dangerous, coercive, and aggressive actions in the indo-pacific region. in contrast to these revisionist goals, today i'd like to provide an update on the secular taking with our allies and partners to an advanced an alternative vision of a free and open indo-pacific. a vision that is widely shared throughout the region in the world. in particular, i'd like to highlight the steps we are taking first to strengthen our alliance capabilities, second to develop a more distributed and resilient force posture, third to build stronger networks of like-minded allies and partners. let me underscore the departments view that today our deterrent is strong. these efforts will play an essential role in sustaining and further strengthening

deterrence in the years and decades ahead. i will say at the outset, the 2023 has already been a groundbreaking year for u.s. alliances and partnerships in the indo-pacific. first, has it aligns capabilities, with japan, we have expressed our support for tokyo's decision to acquire new capabilities that will strengthen regional deterrence, especially counterstrike capabilities. under aukus, we remain encouraged by the significant progress we've made on developing the optimal pathway for australia to acquire conventionally armed nuclear powered submarine capabilities additionally, we are making significant investments in our defense ties with india to uphold a favorable balance of power in the end of pacific. we will continue to fulfill our commitments under the taiwan relations act and its principles. which include providing taiwan with self-defense capabilities, and maintaining our own capacity to resist any use of force that jeopardizes the security of the people of taiwan. second, hunt force posture,

d.o.d. has recently announced major upgrades throughout the region that will make our force posture more mobile, more distributed, more resilience, and legal. and the summer, with australia, we announced several new initiatives that increased our capabilities across a range of domains in australia, including u.s. bomber task force rotations, voter rotations, and future rotations of neighborly and army capabilities. weeks later, the united states and japan announced the first u.s. deployments of a marine literal regiment to japan. just days ago, secretary austin was in manila where the united states and the philippines announced four new sites at strategic locations across the country. third, on networking. despite prc efforts to divide the united states from our allies and partners, d.o.d. is focused on developing a constellation of coalitions to address emerging threats. that includes enhanced trilateral cooperation with

japan and australia, and with japan and the republic of korea. it also includes our work in the indo-pacific with asean, aukus, the quad, and european allies. in, closing as i have done before, i will conclude today by noting, as you did, mister chairman, the powerful bipartisan consensus that has a merged in the china challenge and the commensurate remade for the u.s. government to focus its time energy and resources on the end of pacific region is my enduring belief that we should be vigilant in perverting and enhancing a bipartisan reproach rain fundamental to our ability to compete effectively against the prc. thank you time and attention today, i look forward to your questions. >> thank you both, we'll have five-minute rounds, with as long as we can. let me start off, madam secretary we. i view the china challenge is a multi dimensional issue, it's

not simply a simple economic competition, security, cultural, it goes across so many different dimensions. and so many different parts of the world. so, i look at that multi dimensional challenge, in my view it's no secret that i believe our diplomacy and resources blacks when it comes to meeting china's investments in diplomacy. so, i will be asking omb to significantly staff up. if you want to meet the challenge, this is a huge dimension of what we need to meet. but how is the department looking at making sure that its operations and resourcing, particularly through staffing and personnel expertise are sufficient to meet the diplomatic challenges we face within increasing influential china on the world? >> thank you, very much, mister chairman. could not agree with you more that the scale and scope of the

challenge is enormous. and, as a result, the secretary of state asked me to take special responsibility, as you pointed, out for the organization. and i want to thank this committee and the congress for supporting us in launching what is the china office of coordination, better known as china house in the department, this is really a new matrix organization that is not just a rearrangement of the chairs at the state department, but rather, a way to make sure that we have a multi dimensional, multi domain, awareness, integration, of everything we are doing around the world. that we not only have an integrated strategy towards china, working with the interagency as well, but every single mission around the world has a bespoke china strategy. because, as you pointed out, china is everywhere in the world. i run a china strategy group, but bringing together all of

those dimensions. but i can't give you specifics because we are still working on the fy 24 budget to be released by next month, but you will see in the budget a deep and broad commitment, and a significant increase in our resources for the indo-pacific, as you have long advocated for. and the fy 23 budgets, our foreign assistance reached a 1.8 billion, a 50% increase from just seven years ago, so yes, i would agree with you, we are not where we need to be yet, but i believe we are changing our approach. to give you one specific example, in the indo-pacific, in the specific islands, we are quite rightly in where china has positioned itself, we have taken a very new and bold approach. again, with bipartisan support, we just opened an embassy in the solomon islands, we are working on post and we will be announcing them soon in tonga,

and care of us, we are returning the peace corps, and we to that part of the world. every single place, we have a bespoke approach, we are following through on those strategies, and we are working on the resources to match that ambitions. >> look forward to seeing the budget proposal as pursuit of that. here is another dimension when we talk about multi dimension, the prc is pursuing new and alarming ways to influence and control the united nations. including attempts to curtail and to fund u.n. efforts to prove its human rights system. recently, in the u.n. budget committee, the prc led efforts with russia to slash budgets. for several key human rights investigative mechanisms. how has the department pushed back against their systematic effort to subvert the ability of the united nations human rights systems to confront abuses in china and beyond? >> i think it is a very important point. i think it is why it was important for the united states to be able to rejoin the human rights council and to engage in

a much more effective way at the u.n., you are quite right, the chinese operate in the u.n. system very effectively, for years. they have been able to put people in junior positions, which you simply cannot sign up for financially and put people into slots and then those people move up the chain in the u.n. system. our u.n. ambassador, linda thomas-greenfield, is very engaged in looking at all of the ways that chinese have penetrated the u.n. system and figuring out with our international organization bureau, ways to challenge all of that. but i quite agree with you, we have a lot of work to do. >> but i don't want to come too many things for the chinese, but we could definitely take a lesson from their page book. they have systematically, methodically, implemented their people in a way that ultimately leads them to have influence on a wide variety cross section of the u.n.. that's not the only place, the

world health organization, i could go on. finally, what is the administration doing? chinese imports of iranian oil have exceeded 1 million barrels per day over the past three months. that relationship is mutually beneficial to iran gets to import oil and beijing receives a steep discount. so, what is the administration doing to increase the costs on china for helping iran evade u.s. sanctions? how does it plan to make a measurable dent in iran's oil exports to china and others such that iran is not reaping the benefits of steady oil prices? >> excellent question. i don't have a full answer for you today, mister chairman, but i will say is that we are working on sanctions evasion, including by seeing what is happening two tankers around the world, and taking actions that we can to interdict and stop those oil shipments.

and to sanction those companies that are undermining our sanctions regime around iranian oil. but i agree with you, this is a problem. >> i look forward to hearing back from you in the administration, listen, no hiding 1 million barrels a day for the last three months, and not know what's out there and it is happening and it is happening largely with impunity. so, multi dimensional china challenge, is another one. but it also involves iran, which is also part of our target. we should be doing much better. >> but senator risch. >> thank, you mister chairman. i want to pick up on the point the chairman raised, and that is that we are all aware that you two in the department of intrusion of china, all over the globe, different countries, different entities. the chairman mentioned the u.n., they've got a particular target for the u.n. to get involved

there in every nook and cranny that they can. one concerns for me is that they are doing a similar thing here in the united states at the colleges and universities. and that went on for years, pretty much under the radar with most people not knowing what was going on, in the form of what they call the confucius institutes on these campuses and now, first thing that happened is that it stopped universities, they quit adding them, and then they are actually dismantling them and they are getting to be less and less. having said that, the chinese now have started going to the confucius institute, are buying chairs in the various departments, or they are funding research in places like that. and, again, this goes widely unreported, and occasionally it rears its head as we saw when we had a confirmation from the person from the university of pennsylvania. and i was staggered by the amount of money that china is putting into these

universities. they are not doing out of the goodness of their heart to see that our universities are doing a good job, what kind of program, what kind of effort do you have in that regard to monitor that, and do what is necessary to unwind that? because when that happens, there is no doubt that those colleges and universities are going to get soft on china, they just are. money has a way of doing that. so your thoughts on that, please. >> thank, you senator. as you point out, after peaking at 100 confucius senators in 2018, they are now only around 15. so putting a spotlight on these issues, is very critical to the putting pressure on universities to understand what is happening and what they are doing. and so, i greatly appreciate the work that was done by this congress and by the state department to put a spotlight on the confucius centers. in addition, we are in fact doing the same thing, putting a spotlight where in fact, there

are other things that you mentioned in your opening statement. police stations that are being created, one was closed down in new york when i was in york recently, and every capital where i know, there are police stations. i have raised this issue. and putting a spotlight on this, asking governments, asking universities, to take a look at what they are doing is critical. i do want to make one point though, which i think we all have to be very careful of. we think that people to people exchanges are important. this congress on a bipartisan basis has supported over the years people to people exchanges, we have, i think, over 290,000 chinese students who come to american universities. we are very careful about looking at visas and making sure that in strategic departments where it might influence or create a problem for international security, we do not have those students come. but it is very important that we not closed down these people to people exchanges. on the other hand, we only have about 385 americans who are

studying in china, and we probably need to do something to increase the number of americans who are willing to study in china. and the final thing i would say is that we all know that anti-american -- anti made anti asian american hate has increased. and we have to be very careful as we speak to put a spotlight on china that we not increase hate against asian americans. it has led, as we have all seen too, horrifying circumstances in our country. and we have to be very careful that that doesn't happen. as we, in fact, crack down on exactly the kind of things you've outlined, senator. >> thank you, i appreciate those thoughts. we have asked for those lists about what the taiwanese are asking for, do you know anything about that? is that in your wheelhouse, or not? >> what the taiwanese are asking for in what sense? but >> in materials, military materials. >> sure. jessica lewis, who --

i know you know jessica, is the assistant political for secretary for political affairs. and last year, we notify different sales to taiwan, including ten new sales, three amendments to previously notified sales, it represents the's largest single number of notifications in taiwan in the last 20 years. these included f-16 munitions, spare parts for the taiwan air force, army and navy's existing capabilities and continued support for taiwan's radar program, since 2010, we have notified congressman of over 37 billion dollars. up in arms sales to taiwan. including more than 21 billion since 2019. we think this is quite critical, we believe we need to help them in asymmetric weapons capabilities, help them train and integrate their reserves. make sure that they have mobile

and agile systems, and this is what jessica is very focused on, to make sure that taiwan has what it needs. >> i don't know whether dr. rattner would like to add something from the fence point of view on this. >> briefly, because my time is up. >> senator, i will just echo what secretary sherman just said, we are extremely focused on understanding in communicating with taiwan about what specific articles, defensive articles you need, for their defense, and for deterrence. and we are laser focused on that with all of the attention and urgency it deserves. >> thanks to both of you. i do want to underline that, in september of last year, we wrote a letter asking some specific questions about what the taiwanese were asking for, and what it had given if you dig that out and see if he get an answer to that, it would be very helpful. thank you very much, thank you mister chairman. >> thank, you senator murphy.

>> thank you very much, senator chairman. and i bump appreciate you very much bringing up the challenges of the state department. prior to the pandemic, i was in dublin, and our embassy there told me that in the lead up to my visit there had been a dramatic infusion of chinese diplomatic personnel to their embassy. the reason was there was a pending telecommunications, tender in ireland at the time, and the chinese were able to send in literally dozens of individuals to help huawei compete. we were represented in our embassy by a very capable defend didn't attaché, but we didn't have the ability, as the chinese did, to be as nimble in making sure that we are supporting our efforts to make sure that it is western companies, western technology, that is be ultimately being able to keep pace with chinese technologies. that is just another example about how our resources just don't match chinese resources, and i appreciate the chairman

for making that a priority. i will try to sneak in one question for each of you, i wanted to talk to you, secretary sherman, about the challenge of fentanyl but. we saw in 2019 that things changed, china had been the primary driver of illicit fentanyl and related equipment in the united states, china made some decisions internally, and the pace of that trade changed, but it just moved. all of a sudden, the precursor and the equipment was moving to mexico. we had had a collaboration with china that we don't have today, and it hasn't resumed since the presidents meeting with xi, can you talk about how we can rebuild this cooperation, if cooperation is indeed the way to go, and what practical effect did the 2020 designations of a few forensic institutes and laboratories and china have on our ability to work together on this challenge? >> senator, i suspect that

every single one of us knows a parent who has lost a child to an overdose. i certainly do this is an incredibly high priority for the. president, as you heard in the state of the union, and incredibly high priority for secretary blinken. and certainly will be will he does get back to a meeting invasion, when we think conditions are right. this will be a topic of conversation. previously, as you noted, the prc agreed to impose class what controls on fentanyl in 2019, which brought direct shipments to the united states to almost zero. but, we still continue to see prc precursor chemicals, which are quite concerning. being used in illicit fentanyl production, and as you noted, we are now seeing fentanyl come

in through mexico, we have engaged, not only in mexico, but in other countries, to put pressure on china, and other countries, where we are seeing precursor chemicals. not only fentanyl, but methamphetamine, and other illicit synthetic drugs. this is a really terrible problem, we are taking a laser focus on organizing an international effort to stop this. >> thank, you madam secretary. secretary to rather, a short question for you. recently -- suggested in a memo to troops, my gut tells me that we will fight china in 2025. i hope i am wrong. this kind of rhetoric around the u.s. china relationship undermines rather than furthers our goal of avoiding a war, we want to be ready for conflict, but our goal is to avoid war.

so, two questions. one, do you believe that china has made the decision to pursue reunification with taiwan through force, and to, do you believe that armed conflict between united states and china, as this general suggested, inevitable? >> senator, as secretary austin has now said, repeatedly, a key in the department do not envy in believe that invasion of taiwan is imminent or inevitable. that continues to be our assessment. the department is laser focused on maintaining deterrence detail, tomorrow, and into the future. and we are going to continue working with our allies and partners to do what is necessary for a free and open pacific. >> thank, you senator rubio. >> thank you both for being here, thank you mister chairman. i want to get a little broader, because i think it is important to understand the strategic vision behind our tactics on everything that we do. so, if we go back to the late

80s, early 90s, end of the cold war, and the gamble at the time was, if we created this international economic order led by the u.s. and the west, build on this global commitment to free trade, that this notion that the trade in commerce would bind nations together, via trade, via commerce, and international interests. that it would lead to more wealth and prosperity, that it would lead to democracy and freedom, basically domestic changes in many countries, and that it would ultimately in your piece. the famous saying now seems silly, that no two countries with mcdonald's in them have ever gone to war. that is obviously no longer the case. but the point being is that there was the notion behind it, that was then secretary or director general of the wto called a world without walls, rules based international order, others color globalization. and basically, our foreign policy has been built around that, even though it is an economic theory, it basically is what we have built our foreign policy on. i think it is now fair to say

that we admitted china to the world trade organization, russia as well, i think it is now fair to say that, while the wealth certainly increase, particularly in china, through its export-driven economy, massive historic and unprecedented amount of unprecedented growth in that regard, i don't think we can say either china or russia or more democratic, in fact they are more autocratic. i don't think we can say that they are more peaceful. i think russia has integrated ukraine now twice, and the chinese are conducting live fire drills off the coast of taiwan. so i think it is fair to say that that gamble failed. >> and we have now to enter, and i think the president actually hinted at some of that in the speech the other night, and we are now entering a new era. what is that new era? what is our vision now for that world, in which not just the global international order and world without walls did not pacify or behind nations, but in fact have put up in our autocracy's are joy communicating that are openly

signaling that we need to reject western visions of democracy and the like, so, before we can talk about what we are going to do, we have to understand what our strategic vision is. what is the strategic vision of this administration on what the new order of the world's? i guess, secretary. >> senator rubio, that is a really profound question that i probably can't fully answer in two minutes and 30 seconds. but, let me say this. i think we all hope for that vision. but what changed is that she jinping is not the shooting ping of the 1990s that we all thought we knew. he is a man, as the president, as the secretary, as the secretary of defense has said, is the pacing challenge. the only country that wants to change that rules based order that can successfully do so and are trying to make that happen. it is true that our way of life,

our democracy, our belief, and our values, in the rules based international order is being challenged. and we have to meet that challenge. and i believe we can meet that challenge, but by, as the president discussed in the state of the union, making sure that we invest in our own country, which is why the bipartisan support for the chips act, for the infrastructure bill, what we are doing in the inflation reduction act, all of the bipartisan efforts that have taken place here in congress are essential to making sure that we can invest in our own country to be able to meet that competitive need, second that we align with our partners and allies when president biden began his presidency, he began and said that it was critical to reinvest in those partnerships in alliance. and it is paying off, because we are putting forward those values, look at what is happening in our pushing back against russia and ukraine. and, finally, we have to be

ready to compete. which is why we have to look at supply chains, and make sure that we either can't produce things here in our own country, or we can do it with partners or allies that ensure that we have the resilience and the redundancy we need to meet this challenge. but it is above all else, a challenge about our values, and it is why the president really and did in his state of the union, speaking about democracy, what it means, how we have to show what that means here at home. and what it means around the world. >> i only have ten seconds left, so secretary rattner, i'm going to ask you about the invasion of taiwan, very simple. is there any way that we, in this decade, without china doing something about taiwan, one where the other, is there any way you envision getting to the end of this decade without china want to do something about taiwan? >> senator, wanting to is very different than doing it. so, i think they have intention, but i absolutely think we can get to the end of this decade without them committing major

aggression against taiwan. >> thank, you senator van hollen. thank, you mister chairman, and thank you for your testimony today. madam secretary, great to see you. i wanted to follow up on some of the things you just spoke about, as well as, in your testimony. which is we know that china has the ambition of becoming the dominant country and self sufficient in key leading edge technologies. and they have a plan to do it. they have their ten-year plan and they tried to follow those plans. i agree with you, and with the president that the number one thing we need to do is get our house in order here at home. that ships and science act was a very important piece of legislation. the chips piece, as you know was funded, we need to fully fund the science part of the chips and funds act to maintain our competitive edge. at the same time, we need to do everything we can to prevent the most sensitive, high-end

technologies that are originated in the united states, or with our partners, from falling into china's hands in a way that they can use them and incorporate them into their military. and i do want to applaud the administration for its efforts, you mentioned in your testimony that the october 2022, the rules a hitting the export of u.s. technologies, that is an important step, and i certainly support -- in regards to huawei, what the biden administration is really does expand that. not just from one company, but across the board. so it is a very sensitive technology. also, i want to applaud you for the agreement that is either finalized or in shape, with respect to preventing the export of high and manufacturing equipment. for semiconductors that we are watching with japan and the netherlands, that is an important part. but, obviously, the success of a strategy to prevent our most

sensitive u.s. origin technologies from going to china relies on our partners. it also relies on our partners who have also developed technologies. that is from agreeing not to export their most sensitive technologies. that one example i just mentioned is a good case, but obviously, to be successful, we need to do this across the board. our other democratic partners in east asia or elsewhere? >> can you talk about the process we are making enlisting help from those countries? >> very critical subject, thank all of you for your support when it comes to what we have done to make sure that sensitive technologies here don't find their way to china. i think we are also looking at a pilot potentially about investment as well for sensitive technologies and,

that is something we are continuing to discuss and we will consult with all of you on capitol hill before we go forward. should we go forward, but i think it is important. we, really, on my first trip as deputy secretary of state was to brussels, to launch the u.s. eu china dialogue, that was out of conversations, we also began indo-pacific come citations with the eu, we have made a lot of progress in that regard. i think we are really together in a way we have not been to before -- on china at large, at taiwan specifically, which was a topic that you didn't want to talk about it first, whether it is the g7 or the eu or nato, china is now a strategic component of every discussion that we have. the ttc, the trading technology council, that is led by the secretary of state, the secretary of commerce, is laser

focused on technology. the secretary's modernization of the state department, with your support, bipartisan support, has stood up a cyber and digital policy bureau and in emerging tech envoy because we understand this arena is the future, so i think we are making good progress with allies and partners around the world. but it is very painstaking work. >> yes, if i could, i appreciate the recognition and the urgency of this matter. and i know you are working on it because, getting this right is key to the success, right? if you are trying to prevent the exploited of key technologies, one hold on the boat can ruin the boat. it can ruin a whole enterprise. i do want to mention a bill that i offered with former senator, ben sasse, called protecting u.s. intellectual property, that give the executive branch many more tools to go after those who

steel u.s. technologies. a report is due on that, in 180 days, so look forward to receiving that from you as another part of this strategy, going forward and i look forward to another eye -- is another big piece and supply change, but i'm out of time, thank you, mister chairman. >> senator hagerty. >> thank, you mister chairman. i'm going to move quickly, we've got a lot to cover here. secretary chairman, my question is gonna be directed to you, and welcome. the seven-day chinese spy balloon incident was one of the most visible, persistent, and egregious violations of u.s. sovereignty airspace since the 9/11 tires tax. it was shocking for me to see, in realtime, the chinese spy balloon fly with impunity over the states that are home to some of america's most sensitive military nuclear weapons sites, including, my home state, tennessee. but the chinese communist party is also responsible for less visible, but nevertheless deadly violations of american soft oil. this is taking place every day. the stone about china's

exploitation of fentanyl chemical producers. the cdc found that over 100,000 americans died of drug overdoses in 2021, the vast majority of those deaths, over 71, 000, our deaths from fentanyl. the dea has reported that china has a primary source of the federal related substances, they are trafficked directly into the united states. my first question to deputy sector sherman since taking office, how many sanctions designations does the biden ministration imposed on china's entities that are involved in the manufacturing in exportation offender precursors that are annually killing over 71,000 americans, including children. >> senator, i will have to get back to you on the specific number of sanctions and what those sanctions have been, -- >> i look forward to getting that number, secretary sherman. today, i am interested in what the state department is doing to hold china accountable. and i want to flag for you something that is quite disturbing. on january 30th, of this year, when united states imposed sanctions against mexican drug lords, the treasury

department's press release called out a major drug lord for public reporting, and i quote, precursor chemicals from china, into mexico, which are then used to manufacture synthetic drugs including fentanyl. and quote. the treasury department's press released even name the chinese entity that is involved, in illicit federal trade. i've got a copy of that press release, right here, that i would like to direct to mr. chairman. in contrast, secretary of state blinken secretary went on the same sanctions, completely omitted. any mention of china or chinese entities, this is a missed opportunity in my mind for the state department to publicly hold china count-able for their fentanyl precursor. so, mister chairman, i would like to enter a second statement as well from the department of state that fails to mention china at all. deputy secretary sherman, why did the state department omit any china's press release secretary press statement as a federal drug lords? >> senator, as i said earlier, secretary blinken makes the

ending of this horrible, horrible, ability to kill americans over. >> he certainly would've had this is a key topic in his meetings in beijing, and at some point, when we believe the conditions are right, we will be going to beijing. >> i reclaim my time against deputy suck secretary, sherman. >> but i am greatly concerned that state department admitted mentioning to china for the secretary statements, because they wanted to have the strip to beijing. >> absolutely not the case, senator. >> news reports say that -- oversees the china department decisions, and i feel if you missed a great opportunity here by pulling back on the chance to mention the fentanyl sanctions, to publicly hold china for its accountable role

that is killing children america. and when you add any scent reports, the biden administration did not can't secretary blinken's trip to beijing until five or six days after learning about the chinese by balloons initial violation of our u.s. sovereignty. it is just not a good look, and it doesn't inspire confidence. i think the administration can and can do a better job of holding china countable, i appreciate your expertise in moving in that direction. i would like to go to a different topic now. taiwan. but >> i was proud to contribute to and vote for chairman menendez's law, any good taiwan enhanced resilience act. but time is not on our side. united states is roughly 19 billion bog logged in annual arms sales, to taiwan, and had a recent public event, cia director william burns said that the united states knows, and i quote, as a matter of intelligence, that ccp, general secretary xi jinping has ordered china's military to be capable of conducting an invasion of taiwan by 2027.

chairman, menendez, says that he manual authorizes as much as two billion in grants for 4 million to taiwan between now in 2027. so, deputy secretary sherman, do you support the full implementation of menendez's laws two billion in annual grants, for military financing to taiwan? i would just appreciate a yes or no answer? >> i certainly think we have to look at every way possible to make sure that we meet the needs of taiwan, i think you are all aware that there are production and delivery delays worldwide, and reviewing those systems,. and talking to the private sector about those long lee production timelines and delivery delays, that is because they are affecting all of our fms partners, not just taiwan. >> i understand. i just understand if you support this movement, is that a yes? i >> believe we need to look at every single option we have. >> can you answer me yes or no in? this >> senator, the department was clear that any authorization in the national defense authorization act

should be met within appropriation. >> as it relates to taiwan, security support. >> chairman menendez under -to-one law also -- to brought authority for taiwan, so my next question to the two of you, >> senator hagerty, you are around 50 seconds over your time. >> thank, you mister chairman. i will come back to this, but i would just like to say that china is a serious, comprehensive problem next to taiwan, i want to see us do everything we can to avoid the lessons we learned in ukraine, to make this, tough to determine what might happen. >> we agree. >> thank you to the, witnesses, i want to ask a question that has sort of a virginia tied to it. china has one of the most sophisticated, global campaigns of repression against dissidents around the world many nation. and, in particular, the fbi has warned the china is conducting a global campaign to target, weaker human rights activists,

the uyghur community in virginia is one of the largest in the united states. and we have a number of constituents who have been engaged in your human rights issues, who have been targeted and harassed here. but also find their family members still living in the xinjiang area, affected. >> what is the united states government, particular the state department, doing to ensure that the authoritarian reach of china against people living in the united states is limited? >> so, senator, one of the things that we have immediately done, working with the fbi, is to look at the police stations that china's creating here and around the world. chinese, police station, so to speak, was closed down. these aren't the stations at all, what they are our policing the diaspora, weaker's, and others in the chinese orbit harassing them. putting them at great risk, and

we are working with law enforcement here very closely to make sure that china cannot reach into the united states, and harass and further undermine human rates of uyghurs, ethnic minorities, and chinese, and chinese americans. >> and the chinese direction have imprisoned, and a number of the family members of american residents who have advocated for bigger human rights. what is the u.s. government doing that is trying to intercede on behalf of those unjustly imprisoned in china? >> so, the secretary of state i have met with all of the families, or group of the families that are quite concerned about this and concerned about their family members. , and when we have met with the chinese or communicated with the chinese, we have raised these cases, in some instances families don't want to raise the cases, because they are afraid that it will target their family members, so we are really guided by what the families want, but we will try

to do whatever we possibly can, and i have to tell you, meeting with those weaker families, just as when we meet with all of the families of those detained in china, we are held in brexit bans in china, they are some of the hardest meetings i have to do. >> let me switch topics, the title of today's hearing is, evaluating u.s. china policy in an era strategic competition, and i think we all know the competition is intense across multiple fronts, and in many areas, it is more than competition. china is an adversary. and, yet, one of the things that we probably should do for our own good, and for the good of the world's sikh are their areas of cooperation, because, it would benefit the world greatly if they could see, as tough as this competition even adversary relationships is, there is at least a good communication to recognize on some small set of issues, the need to find common cause and work together. that will be good for the united states. good for china but it be good

for the world a statue in terms of setting up a stability message. what are areas, as you stand up china house and see u.s. china policy. where areas that might be most likely to find some cooperation for the good of our countries in the good of the world. >> so the one that we talk about the most, starting with the one that senator hagerty mentioned, which is counter narcotics, which is quite critical for all the reasons that he said, that others and ranking member, risch raised as well, are working on climate. quite frankly, we cannot meet the challenge on climate. unless china is working with the rest of the world. i am glad that they have reopened communications between their envoy and special presidential on boy for climate, john kerry, i hope that conversation can carry on even in this very difficult time. we have talked about working together on global health, which may sound sort of strange given that the chinese have

been very protective of their data and to no sequencing on covid-19. i know that there is great concern about here about the origins of covid-19, which remains not resolved yet by the intelligence community either. i would urge any briefings you might want on that to have the incan challenge community but, i do think we have to work together on global health because we are going to see more pandemics. and we need to be working together in this regard. so, those are three, and of course, people to people exchanges. ways that we can have our folks safely know each other in a better way because we do not seek confrontation with the chinese people, we do many things and have discovered things together in our scientific community where it is in our security interest to do so we have to be careful, thoughtful, but nonetheless, i hope that we can engage in people to people exchanges

appropriately. >> thank, you senator paul. >> miss chairman, it is estimated that between five and 18 million people died from covid-19, worldwide. to a significant science number in science, the evidence suggest that this originated from a lab leak, does the state department fund coronavirus research in china? >> do we fund coronavirus, i don't believe so, but i don't know. i will double check, and we will get back to you on that, senator? >> the answer is, yes you do, and it is been going on for more than a decade, and it is going to a program called predict, and in the global byram. and why is this important is, we had 1 million americans die, we really haven't had any discussion of this. no hearings, no hearings, nothing, people are unaware that they are funding the research. we found out recently through the house, unclassified report, that money is going from the nih to american universities, to the academy of military medical sciences research in china. we are sub contracting money

and sending it over. but millions is coming from the state department. so the ideas this. we will identify all of vanessa 's -- viruses in the world, and we will be severe because we identify them, but here is the question. are we safer to have some guy or some woman crawling down our cave ten hours away from wuhan, coming up with back guano, coming up with viruses, and bringing it to a city of 15 million, like wuhan? this is what has been going on for a decade. it is a setup for an accident, it is a setup for a mistake. and nobody is doing anything about it. we continue to fund it. the main group that has been getting this money is ecohealth laps, over 100 million dollars, a lot of the health department. they continue to get money. they don't file the reports on time, they didn't stop their experiments, and yet, we were wore them with more money. >> 15 million people died we haven't anything about it. nobody seems to care, we are not even sure we found it. the state department is a big funder of this project. it is a multi decade-long project, but there are scientists as we speak from

stanford, from m.i.t., from prestigious universities around the country, these are not partisans. most of them are not republicans, who stand up and say, oh my god. what are we doing? bringing these viruses from remote brett caves two major metropolitan areas, and with no controls over this. so we have been asking for information from the state department, because we want to know more about this. u.s. right to know has been sending voyeur quest for two and a half years, and they don't get anything. so, mister chairman, i've sent two letters, some of them are six month old lowe. and we are getting a whatever, we are not gonna give you any information. but i would hope for is that we could have, people are always talking about bipartisanship. could we not get bipartisan report for records? this is not partisan. we want to know what the u.s. state department is funding, nih is giving the request on their funds. the two things that we know for certain that have led us to believe that came from the lab that are big came because one was leaked and this was a darpa

request so the chinese researchers in china, wanted from darpa but wanted money to create a virus that guess what, looks exactly like covid-19. they asked for in 2018 we turn them down, fortunately we did the right thing, for once, we turn them down. that doesn't mean it into the research. and so, many scientists are had an aha moment. they saw this and they said, oh my goodness, they asked for money to create something that looks almost exactly like what we got. so, in nature, you do not have coronaviruses that infect people that have always called a -- cleavage site. china said we are going to give us money to allow us to infect humans more. we found out that, not because you let us know, or not because the and-ites let us know, they still resist. this is, top secret, this is classified, this is a whole problem of classification. but it is also to cover up things. so we don't know anything about the 28th thing, we had an illegal leak, that went to somebody in the media that is now public. they said the chinese wanted to create a virus just like covid-19 in 2018. the other thing we know is

three researchers in the wuhan lab in the wuhan institute of virology got very sick with flu like symptoms similar to covid in november. we only know that though because the trump administration on the way out declassified. so, we have to get over all of the classification, we all have to be more forthcoming, and i'm hoping that the chairman will consider looking at a request. these are not partisan. we want to know all of the information about finding a research in china, we want to know the interactions, there were cables going back and forth between the state department saying, holy cow, they are not wearing gloves. they don't wear masks in doing this research. they are doing it and what is called a bsl two, as opposed to a bsl for. most of the research that we think escaped was not done in the appropriate lab. and the state department knew about it, we've had no hearings about this. they refused to give us any information. 15 million people died, 1 million americans died, and you won't give us any information. so what i would ask is, look at our request. this is not partisan. this should be about

discovering the origins of this. the scientific community is around 50 50 now, and i would hope that we suspect the chinese are not being honest and withholding information. but it is sad that the u.s. government is withholding information from its representatives. >> i will take back your request again, senator. i would urge a briefing perhaps in a scif with the intelligence community on this. as you know, there is not a single view about this particular set of issues. i understand your desire to understand what occurred. >> we are asking you for unclassified information that you, hold not intel. >> understand that. >> senator merkley? >> thank you, mister chairman, welcome to both of you, thank you for the work that you are doing. i want to echo tim kaine's concern about transnational repression of the congressional executive commission on china, which i chaired at the last two years. they've done a lot of work on. this it's such an expansion.

i want to mention people like the american citizen rashawn abbas who's a sister, we are, dr. continues to serve a 20 year sentence for the crime of participating in ontario's organization. meaning she's been retaliated against because her sister, here in the united states, is an advocate for human rights. i do not see how we can tolerate a relationship in which the chinese are targeting american citizens. not the only ones. they are the biggest perpetrator of this. every other country is looking at this and going, can we adopt this model as well? i know the state department is taking this seriously. i want to mention a couple things. one, there has to be a sense that other diplomatic efforts with china all have to involve this transgression against people in the u.s., a red line. and i just don't feel it we've

elevated it to that. second of all. i spoke with the fbi about creating a particular tip line specifically for transnational repression, specifically from china, because the fbi wants people to call their general tip line and then they've been referred to a most wanted tip line. it's like, no, you have to have people who speak chinese, who understand the culture, who understand the history. we can circulate that connection. they know they're going to have an experienced individual on the other end of the line who can work with them and not get them in more trouble, not in danger, if you, will the folks back home more. if we want to truly understand the scope of what china is doing, we have to have a much better feedback from the chinese community. we're not going to get it through just a generalized fbi tip line. i want to mention that. and say i think this is something that i'd like to persuade the department to

pursue. i think would be helpful to address it in an effective manner. and i will pause. >> thank you, we agree that transnational repression is a terrible situation for so many. as i mentioned earlier the secretary of state and i met with families here in america who are concerned about their uyghur families abroad. as well as the fact that families are repressed in xinjiang because of advocacy's by family members here in the united states. we raise these issues with the chinese in every appropriate meeting that we can. we are working hard to shut down so-called police stations, which really go after the diaspora here. chinese american citizens. your suggestion about the tip line will certainly go back to

law enforcement. we work very closely with the fbi, which shut down the police station in new york. these are very tough issues. i understand your concern for us. it's quite horrible. >> we are not going to get a sense of a scope of the problem if people are directing the generals criminal line. that is not work, you cannot publicize that among the human rights committee. secretary rattner, i want to turn to military deconfliction with china. deconfliction is extremely important when you have tensions with another country. they've all through this with the soviet union over concerns of the risk of nuclear war. we can't have deconfliction of the other side will pick up the phone. how are we doing in deconfliction? we have some recent evidence from having responded to the balloon over the united states. >> senator merkley, thank you for your question. it's a really important one. secretary austin, they said

repeatedly how important it is that we have open lines of communication between the united states military and our counterparts in china. that is because we need to communicate our priorities. it is because our priorities need to have serious conversation about strategic issues like space and cyber -- >> over importance. question, how are the chinese responding, are the opening, is it still a big problem? >> it remains a problem, senator. secretary austin has met with the counterparts face to face both at the dialogue last year at senate floor and again and can podium in november. however over the last several months, the pla has continued to view the relationship is something they turn on and off do express displeasure with other things that are happening. we think that's really dangerous. there is an outstretched hands, including immediately following the downing of the balloon.

, unfortunately today, the pla is not answering the call. >> thank you. >> as i announced earlier, at some point, we are going to have to close the hearing because of the joint briefing that will take place. right now i have senator young next. and then senator gardner, and maybe we will try to get senator romney. we welcome, as i did, earlier senator scott to the committee. playing the role as ranking member of the budget and the banking committee. and that's why he wasn't here earlier. >> thank you mister chairman, -- >> thank you for being here today. i'd like to change gears a bit to discuss economic coercion. as i, know our panelist understand, china has effectively weaponized the economic dependence that the

world economy has on their workshop in the world, as we colloquial have been calling it. they have been intimidating multinational firms, denying market access and retaliation for the mere utterances from world leaders. engaging and all manner of other activities to apply pressure, especially to smaller nations throughout the asian pacific, the obvious goal here is to intimidate these various countries, and to give them advice. either they can accommodate needed at desires of the chinese communist party, they can facilitate their ability to realize, through this economic independents. these nations can take a chance on a free and open order, on democracy and on the united states and our partners and allies.

china is not the only offender. it's not the only country to try to weaponize economic interdependence. we saw fraser do this in the lead up to the invasion of ukraine last year with weaponization of the oil and gas dependency of europe. so, what is the enact united states doing? i know we're attempting diplomatically to deal with this. there have been some other activities that perhaps you can touch on. i want to turn it over to you. i just came back from the asia pacific, i visited with president tsai in taiwan and japanese leaders. and i heard a lot about economic coercion more than any other topic. taiwan has been on the receiving end. japan has been formalized to counter economic coercion and they want the united states to act. to that end, i've introduced

bipartisan legislation with senator coons. the aim is to allow the united states to quickly appropriate nathaniel assistance and give it to those who are on the receiving end of this coercion, provide other tangible benefits to partners and allies who have been victimized by maligned behaviors. we propose providing the president of the united states with a range of tools and authorities that include boosting trade with an affected ally or partner and requesting congress provide aid and export financing. and temporarily adjusting duties on select u.s. imports to make up for and affected countries lost exports or to disadvantage and adversaries and imports in our market. now, crucially, we also carve for coronation of all these

activities with our economic partners and allies. the g7 meeting will be held in japan in hiroshima and may. this will be item number one on the agenda. i commend prime minister kishida for making this a priority. my sense is the administration is on board with this approach. and i am complemented by that. and we're going to have the colleagues joining the effort as well. deputy secretary sherman. it seems to me based on everything i just said that there are not sufficient tools to properly deal with these course of activities. do you agree with this assessment? very briefly, why? >> thank you very much, senator. our teams are very close touch with yours and senator coons to work on this legislation. we are trying to expand our cohesion toolbox, we've learned a lot because of lithuania and australia and others. as you point out in the russia and ukraine situation as, well we agree with you that prime minister kishida making this a

top priority for his g7 presidency it is critical we. we've done tabletop exercises on this. we think this is a critical area we. we've managed to support lithuania and other countries that have faced this and learned a lot in the process. so, thank you for your efforts. we look forward to continuing to work closely with you on this. >> i heard everything and needed. sufficient for this briefing, when you move on briefly to egyptian science and contagion question. beijing has been stealing our stuff. our intellectual property for a lot of years now. we don't want them to steal this stuff, this cutting edge national security oriented research, funded through chips and science. chips and science act appropriates $500 million to the department of states in part to support international i.t. security to protect this intellectual property. could you very briefly indicate what the consequences are of

the lack of i.t. security? how the prc is exploiting the current system. at the extent you've already implemented some of the chips and science provisions, give us a summary, please. >> thank you very much for the fund which promotes protect and ict provision at the state department. in support of the foreign diplomacy in concert with the commerce department, which has enormous shares of this fund. we have notified up to the hill some of the projects in efforts. we are creating baselines this year leading up to making significant process and progress in the five year horizon that you all laid out in the provision of this fund. i look forward to discussing details with you in a private setting. >> my office will follow up, thank you, chairman. >> senator cardin, and then senator romney, and then that will be the end of the hearing. >> i think believer being here.

i'm going to fall about senator young. i was with senator menendez, i saw the challenge of china penetration on the diplomacy issues. i wanted to mention a country like argentina. argentina has a problem. it is not terribly attractive for private investment because of its debt policies. yet, when they need to borrow money, china is willing to be there. we know china does it on the cheap. they don't get their value. they get hooked by this debt diplomacy which can be against our national security interests. so, i just really want to underscore it's more than east asia pacific, it's our own hemisphere where we see china very much penetrating and using this as leverage for their geopolitical agenda. i know that you set up the china -- i believe it's in the stands of pacific vero.

can you assure us that there is a coordinated strategy beyond east asia pacific, which is critically important, but also on our own hemisphere? >> very quickly on both. on debt, as i think you all are probably a rare, when secretary yellen went to africa, debt was front and center an issue for her in zambia. the underscore that all creditors, including beijing, must participate in debt relief efforts for zambia. in sri lanka, indeed that is a huge problem, the paris club has now taken some action and pressure is -- we are putting pressure on china to in fact also come to the table, since most of the debt is within the chinese. agree with you in latin america, they can use their s.o.b. capability to just put money on the table. ultimately, it often ends up in that four countries. argentina being a good example.

so, i agree with you, and we are working on all of that. in terms of the china, house i want to commit several things to you. senator risch knows well. he really focused is. china has me is on coming from every part of the department. go back to their home heroes, so there is truly an integrated beyond a peace strategy. it all comes through eap, but to me, who has responsibility for everything all over the world. so, quite frankly, yes, it may be housed in eap. that is the anchor. it goes out throughout the world. >> i look for to working with you on that. in order to get a bit of credit on this committee, can i get my team as to senator booker? my remaining two minutes? >> you may. >> i'd like to get the side of new jersey. >> an extraordinary act of grace and generosity. it's only topped by your wisdom

and -- >> don't use the whole two minutes! >> i really appreciate that. i really want to get into the development finance corporation and the real power of that. congress created and parks as a response to the rest and initiatives. it's important to providing loans, equity investments, and more. the drc has limits. i really think it could be something that could be used in a stronger way. the agency has a potential to boost international development opportunities and really help to level the playing field and expand opportunities for us. not just economically, but also in terms of national security. there is a famous saying that if you're not at the table, you're in the menu. i want to see if there's ways we can be more at the table

using the b f c. i'm wondering, things like the drc, a challenge corporation, can we use this to really expand our tool box. not just for economic opportunity, but economic policy? >> senator, this is so important. in fact, thank you all for looking at what the drc can do. and weather can be expanded in ways that are helpful. particularly for countries that are not at the bottom of development ladder, but sort of in between, trying to raise up. the development finance corporation is also working very closely with our pg i ion it should've. the partnership for global infrastructure investment. with the private sector as well. with mcc. we have to use every single tool we have. our greatest strength is bringing the private sector

together with what we are doing in the public arena. china can't do that. yes, it can put money on the table without strings attached. the strings come later. countries go into debt. chinese take their assets. they don't transfer capabilities to countries to do their own development. so, i couldn't agree more, i would love to work with you in deepening this ability. >> thank you, please, senator romney, closes out. >> thank you, mister chairman, for keeping us all, here so i can get my few moments. there are few things i want to mention, which is chairman menendez and i last year authored an amendment which was passed in the ndaa. it requires the united states to state department to develop a comprehensive strategy to address the threat of emerging china. ranking member risch and i sent a letter to president biden urging the administration to start implementing the legislation. in a letter, we requested an update on the progress after 60 days. the 60 days mark has passed. now, secretary blinken has laid out three principles.

the administration is pursuing them in dealing with china, invest, a line, and compete. i would note that we need to go from principles to a comprehensive strategy and include tactics. and that includes our approach to developing countries. to our global trade arrangements. to economic measures we might want to put in place. to our research and development investments here. to our military procurement, do global communication strategies, to access to universities, access to our laboratories, to these as we provide to the chinese, to international institutions that we're going to be involved with, to our social media strategies, to iran material strategies and processing a raw materials, to the role of usaid, to defending the tactics the chinese are using, you get room going. a comprehensive strategy includes dozens upon dozens of strategic and tactical decisions that are combined

changed over the years. it is essential in my view that we develop that kind of strategy and that is kept in a classified setting. it is not to go publicly. we really the. that we also in this legislation looked at the strategies of that nation though developed by president truman and reagan and others. the work of george cannon and david acheson. saying, okay, how these strategies develop back then? how do they put them together? they are dealing with strategies that deal with the soviet union. and they involve outside individuals, not just internally, because they knew internal people would be captured by a group think. they want to people from the outside. some who had experience in developing these kinds of strategies. i spent my private sector career doing something called strategy consulting. we help companies develop strategies. i have to tell you it drives me nuts to watch this deal with china and have objectives but to see everyone going in different.

and we don't have a comprehensive, let's put together strategy. let us legislation with chairman menendez and i submitted and it was passed calls for bringing in an advisory panel of outside experts. it would include people probably from the senate for strategic and international studies, from a ei, from brookings, a whole range of individuals would come in and offer i.d.s and suggestions. comprehensively put together. if we do, that it's likely to exist beyond just one administration. it becomes the basis for a strategy going forward. i strongly encourage the state department to take the lead and making sure that we assemble that advisory board. we lay out would be included in a strategy. we consider the widest rate of options. and then we have to put that together. ultimately, brief chairman menendez, ranking member, rush hand others in the committee on that strategy that the process undertaken. what some of the conclusions are. i think it's essential. i am going to close off with

that comment. i'm not going to ask her response. you have to rent another briefing. i'm not going to hold you have from doing that. i just want to underscore how critical it is that we go from ad hoc principles that we -- tactics reapply from part-time time time. fashioning with the help of outside minds a comprehensive, a series of options. we select the option that's our strategy. we move on that basis. not doing so, in my opinion, it will leave us in something less than the leadership position we so desperately need to preserve our freedom and prosperity. >> if i may, mister chairman, senator, we agree with you. we are in fact working on every one of those tactical areas that you identified. every single one. bringing them together and doing the deep work on them is incredibly time consuming. we are doing that work. the secretary does have a foreign affairs policy board. we have an international security board and i will take

back your idea that we have an ongoing china focused council, which we don't have a specific. we do consult with outside consultants and outside experts on a constant basis. the secretary did so in his run up to the potential trip he was making to beijing. i think all of the areas that you laid out are absolutely ones which we have to be laser focused and bring to gather those tactics into an integrated strategy. that is what we are working on doing. and having every single mission around the world have a bespoke strategy for their country because every country is different and china's president in every single one. thank you. >> thank you,. >> let me just echo senator romney's view, which is why i joined with him in the amendment and which is why it's long now. i think madam secretary may be one of the benefits of hearing

your answer would be a more in detailed opportunity to in some briefing to share with members who are interested about exactly how you're going about. the universe that's being advised. i just want to echo senator romney's concerns. senator paul has asked that that his two letters that he referenced to be included in the record without objection. they shall be included. this record will be main open to the close of business tomorrow. i urge our witnesses to answer questions. i know i have some that i did not get to. with some degree of specificity with the thanks of the committee for both of your appearance here today, i look forward to seeing you at the intelligence briefing. this hearing is adjourned.