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deputy secretary of state, wendy sherman, testified before a senate foreign relations committee. on the chinese surveillance balloon, that flew over the u.s.. and what it means for u.s. relations with china.

this hearing of the senate foreign relations committee will come to order. before we start with hearing, although they may not be here because they have other assignments as well, i do want to welcome three new members of the senate foreign relations committee. senator duckworth, scott and ricketts. who each bring valuable and varied experience. senator duckworth demonstrated a long-standing commitment to advancing u.s. national security and values through military service in position on the armed services committee. it's a pleasure to be joined by senator scott, who serves also as a ranking member of the banking committee, which is where he is now. of which i sit on as well.

senator ricketts has served as governor of nebraska, look forward to working with all of our new colleagues. on china and other critical issues, the united states faces around the world. and we warmly welcome them to the committee. inside the barbed wires, fences of china's concentration camps, guards force uyghur detecting is to sing patriotic songs, praising xi jinping. to drown out screams from torture, rape and forced sterilizations. show them, quote, absolutely no mercy. president xi said in a secret speech that was leaked to the new york times. for many years, chinese leaders focus was directed inward. that is no longer the case. as we saw with the recent spy balloon passing over the united states, a blatant violation of our sovereignty by a country that claims to be a responsible actor. other this was a huge mistake by some entity within the chinese government, or was a

test of our resolve by she. if it was, we got a clear answer. whether was the cancellation of secretary blinken's bilateral visit to beijing, or the debris recovered from the bottom of the atlantic, the u.s. response should -- settle any questions are of resolve and sovereignty. we responded with strength, i believe that is a way to deal with president xi. we have to remain vigilant, beijing is reaching beyond its borders. spreading authoritarian values by exploiting high tech surveillance tools for any dictator that wants them. wielding influence and international institutions like the united nations, so president xi can block debate on critical issues and avoid scrutiny. and china has made huge financial investments across the world. for imports interlock a, to railroads in kenya, to bridges management and logistics and the panama canal, each adding to president xi's leverage over nation to find themselves heavily indebted to china, and

unable to push back on beijing's demands. this puts pressure on countries committed to democracy. like lithuania, when they took steps to deepen their unofficial relationship with taiwan. and we think about our own posture in the world, we must recognize that china has also invested heavily in proactive diplomacy. china now has more diplomatic posts than any other country. chinese diplomats are on the ground, making the case for china's values, pushing for chinese investment in the united states isn't keeping up. while china's pouring money into africa, for example, we've got a 40% vacancy rate at our embassy in night share. and chronic staffing short falls from malley, tomorrow tani, to check. secretary sharon, secretary sherman and dr. rattner. let me be clear. i am planning a robust agenda in congress.

in this particular congress, and china will be a big part of it. i've had conversations with ranking members, working together to come together which i think we will on a comprehensive china legislation. today, i released a detailed 46-page majority staff committee report, outlining what needs to happen to realize the administration's vision for the indo-pacific. i'll give you the short version, that the china challenge affects every region in the world, and you're going to have to do a better job of resourcing these efforts. that means more people in our embassies, it means modernizing the way we do business, it means offering an alternative to china. and secretary sherman, since the buck stops with you on china in the state department, i want to hear what you believe you need to do to ensure that happens. we appreciate your appearing before us today, i will note, that the secretary will have a hard stop at about 11:15, because the leadership decided

to hold a all members briefing at 11:30, she needs to be there for that. we will get to as many questions as we can. i'm looking for a full and frank assessment of what this administration is doing will. and what it needs to do better. i applaud the -- chips act in the inflation reduction act, although i am disappointed that ultimately, the legislation did not include the senate -- strategic competition act that ranking member -- of third with so many members of this committee. i look forward to working with my colleagues to reintroduce and expand upon that legislation in this congress. these efforts to secure our supply chains and increase our domestic competitiveness are critical for american families bottom line. when it comes to our global competition, right now, china has the upperhand. i am pleased that in contrast to the last administration, we are working to shore up allies and partners, this is difficult and essential work. if we are serious about the

competition with china, the state department needs to be more ambitious. the biden administration needs to be more ambitious. we hear in congress want to do more. right now, we've got something in congress unheard of in today's washington, which on this issue, is bipartisan consensus. i hope you won't squander it. because well you've laid out a compelling vision on paper for what we need to do, it doesn't seem to me, we have an equally ambitious resourcing strategy to make it happen. the state department you inherited is simply not posture for a global competition with china. it's harder for us to argue for more resources or authorities, if you're not out there arguing for more yourselves. united states has to step up. -- notice the might of our military, but the power of our diplomatic persuasion. i expect you to make the senate and this committee in particular a partner in this effort.

with that, let me turn to the ranking member for his opening remarks. >> well, thank you, mister chairman. we all know for a long time the china challenge was for foremost on our minds. of course, along came the ukraine war which presents new challenges, but having said that, we can't take our eye off the ball either, since china's, i think we all agree, the challenge of the 21st century. this hearing was planned before the unfortunate chinese spy balloon flyover last week's episode highlights. just how important addressing this competition really is. china messed up publicly, but this only highlights what it has been doing behind the scenes for years every country around the world to take a note, because the chinese will do this to other countries also secretary blinken, was a good step, i hope deputy sherman will shed more light on where we go from here. this was an egregious assault on sovereignty, obviously, it requires a response and it requires a plan going forward.

another note i am concerned that the administration still does not consider congress a true partner on china, i believe, i've heard about a lot of briefings from reporters in think tanks since last week regarding the balloon incident. the outreach to the hill was slow and sloppy at best. i have said for years, republicans and democrats, the executive and legislative branch have to work together if we are going to confront what china is doing, without that, we will not be successful. first place, and this is not a partisan issue, this is truly an american issue in a bipartisan issue. the first place where we should demonstrate resolve, is to better support for taiwan. nothing is more urgent than ensuring taiwan has the capabilities and training to deter chinese aggression. if we do not help them prepare no, we may all pay a much higher cost later. another priority this year will be oversight of the implementation of the thai one enhanced resilience act, signed into law last december.

it was not adequately funded in the appropriations process. i was very disappointed in this. the biden administration said, over and over again, that this support the security assistance to taiwan. it did not advocate for the appropriations process. similarly, this committee and the armed services committee has asked the administration last summer for prioritizing taiwan's military needs. despite repeated requests, we still do not have that list. beyond taiwan, we must count on the ccpcs maligned influence both in the u.s. and abroad. i expect to hear about how the department addresses issues like influence in the universities, chinese police stations here in the united states and other countries, and corruption. i also hope to hear the administration is going to counter the flow of chinese fentanyl into the united states, via third countries like mexico. steps we take domestically, of course, matter. china actively avoids actions that could reduce the supply of chemicals that are legally sent to united states. various parts of the u.s.

government, including myself, have asked the chinese government to take basic steps, like passing a new york esteem or type law. the ccp's response, it won't cooperate until we remove a chinese scientific institute remained entity list. and that we should just tell u.s. citizens not to do drugs. the chinese government's tacit endorsement of this massive drug trade is just not right. also, we need to do the chinese do more to alleviate human suffering. in the u.s. and abroad. on this very important drug issue. finally, i want to highlight a legislative priorities, as the chairman has already stated, the chairman of have met and discussed at length our ideas on china, and china is certainly a high priority in this legislative session, as we go forward. we are going to have a joint bill, we hope, to be introduced, that will be include parts of

the senate bill in 2021 that past the strategic competition act the. chairman i've already discussed collaborative and china legislation this year, and look forward to working with him on that. also, we have a con act that was previously introduced, and probably needs to be what we put in into our joint bill, with that, we have a lot to cover, thank you mister chairman. >> thank you, senator, we look forward to working together on this. witnesses they are deputy secretary of state, wendy sherman, assistant secretary defense for the indo-pacific security affairs, dr. li rattner. i understand that secretary sherman provide some brief opening remarks, as well the assistant secretary, both will be available to answer any questions we may have, i'll remind members again there is an all senators classified briefing on the prc surveillance balloon at 11:30. immediately following this hearing. that is a setting which our witnesses may be better able to

answer some of your questions. on the balloon, specifically, while this hearing was called well before the balloon incident and is focused on brighter china policy. secretary sherman, let's begin. >> chairman menendez, ranking member risch, distinguished members of this committee. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. please, let us add our welcome to the newest additions to the -- senators duckworth, scott and ricketts. i and this entire state department look forward to working with you. before we address our main topic, i just want to make one quick comment about the deadly earthquake in turkey and syria. the numbers of those lost keep rising. in our hearts ache for the families and community, devastated by this tragedy. i know that we all express our solidarity and are doing whatever we can for those who are suffering. and will do whatever we can to support the recovery and the days and months ahead, it is

truly the tragic, tragic situation. for all the people in the region. now, to the subject at hand. the peoples republic of china. the geopolitical challenge, quite frankly, that will test american diplomacy, like few issues in recent memory, and i associate myself with both the common out of the chairman of the ranking member about the challenges that we face. the prc, is the only competitor with the intent and means to reshape the international order. a fact borne out in the prc's provocations in the south china sea, it's human rights abuses, its use of economic coercion, it's threatening behavior against taiwan, of course, what we have just witnessed. and much more. last week, the american people saw the latest example of that reality, after the u.s. government detected, closely tracked and shot down the prc's

high altitude surveillance balloon, that had entered or territorial airspace. in clear violation of our sovereignty and international law. the biden harris administration responded swiftly, to protect americans and safeguard against the balloons collection of sensitive information. we made clear to the prc officials, the presence of this surveillance balloon was unacceptable, and along the way, we learned a thing or two, which will here in the classified briefing, about the prc's use of the blue. last friday, secretary blinken called director won a, to say it would not be appropriate to visit beijing at this time. on saturday, as you all know the president's direction, u.s. military successfully brought down the balloon, off the east coast. this lawful and illiberal action was achieved with no harm to civilians. and with maximum ability to recover the payload, again, more to say about this in the classified briefing. i look forward to joining you

in that briefing, to go through the full details with my interagency colleagues. our response to this incident reaffirmed our core priorities as the president said tuesday evening. we will always act decisively to protect the american people. we will never hesitate to defend u.s. interest in the rules based international order. we will confront the dangerous posed by the -- with resolve, and keep demonstrating that violations of any country sovereignty are unacceptable. this irresponsible act to put on full display what we've long recognized, the prc has become more repressive at home, more aggressive and broad. it reinforce the need for us to double down. on our strategy, invest, align, compete. simply put, with legislation like the bipartisanship's and science act, and the bipartisan infrastructure law, we are investing in the foundations of our strength on our shores. we are also modernizing our work at the state department as the chairman has implored us

and the ranking member to do. to mobilize our embassies and resources to take on this challenge, particularly, through the china house which we stood up with your support in december. we are aligning with like-minded allies and partners overseas, with the g7 in the eu, the tough work the chairman talked about, japan, south korea, australia, thailand, the philippines with india and countries on every continent. we have made a concerted effort to share information that reinforces the scale of the threats posed by the prc. and the necessity of unity and confronting them. we don't seek another cold war, we do ask everyone to play by the same several's. investing in ourselves in aligning with our partners, strengthens our hand to compete with the prc. with authorities provided, with bipartisan congressional support, we will keep pushing back against the prc's aggressive military, diplomatic and economic practices. we will continue to oppose beijing's on lawful acts in the

south, and east china seas. hold accountable those involved in human rights violations, in tibet in xinjiang, support the people of hong kong, and do whatever possible to bring home unjustly detained americans. mister chairman, i'd ask for a few more seconds for my opening remarks. we will continue to warn the prc against providing military support to russia, crackdown on prc entities engaged in harmful activities, and address the prc's transnational repression, including as the ranking member mentioned, the overseas police stations designed to restrict the rights of chinese diaspora, almost. we will continue to prevent the prc's exploitation of u.s. technology, to enable its own military model and mobilization. we will continue, and i'll be glad to answer questions about working for peace and stability across the taiwan straight. we remain committed to our long-standing, one china policy,

and oppose any unilateral changes to the cross strait status quo. our policy has not changed. what has changed is beijing's growing coercion. so, we will keep assisting taiwan, in maintaining a sufficient self defense capability. through it all, we have, and will maintain, open lines of communication. so we can responsibly manage the competition between our countries. we do not seek conflict with the prc. we believe in the power of diplomacy to prevent miscalculations that can lead to conflict. we are ready to work together. where areas of cooperation are vital for our own interests, for climate and public health. to food security, narcotics and more. anywhere it can enhance u.s. interests and global peace and security. as president biden said in his state of the union, quote, today, where the strongest position in decades to compete with china, or anyone else. adding that, quote, winning the

competition with china, should as the chairman of the ranking member has said, unite all of us. with your bipartisan support, with the resources approved by this committee, as the chairman has challenged us on, we will stand unified in the face of this challenge. thank you very much, mister chairman. uch, mister chairman. >> thank you, secretary rattner. >> chairman menendez, ranking member risch, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on u.s. policy towards the prc. the national defense strategy rightly identifies the prc as the defense department's facing challenge. this is because, as articulated in the administrations indo-pacific strategy, the prc is, quote, combining its economic, diplomatic, military, technological might as it pursues in fear of influence in the indo-pacific and seeks to become the world's most influential power. and quote. china's military is central to these aims. in fact, in recent years, the prc has turned to the pla as an

instrument of coercive statecraft in support of its global ambitions including by conducting more dangerous, coercive, and aggressive actions in the indo-pacific region. in contrast to these revisionist goals, today i'd like to provide an update on the secular taking with our allies and partners to an advanced an alternative vision of a free and open indo-pacific. a vision that is widely shared throughout the region in the world. in particular, i'd like to highlight the steps we are taking first to strengthen our alliance capabilities, second to develop a more distributed and resilient force posture, third to build stronger networks of like-minded allies and partners. let me underscore the departments view that today our deterrent is strong. these efforts will play an essential role in sustaining and further strengthening deterrence in the years and decades ahead. i will say at the outset, the 2023 has already been a groundbreaking year for u.s.

alliances and partnerships in the indo-pacific. first, has it aligns capabilities, with japan, we have expressed our support for tokyo's decision to acquire new capabilities that will strengthen regional deterrence, especially counterstrike capabilities. under aukus, we remain encouraged by the significant progress we've made on developing the optimal pathway for australia to acquire conventionally armed nuclear powered submarine capabilities additionally, we are making significant investments in our defense ties with india to uphold a favorable balance of power in the end of pacific. we will continue to fulfill our commitments under the taiwan relations act and its principles. which include providing taiwan with self-defense capabilities, and maintaining our own capacity to resist any use of force that jeopardizes the security of the people of taiwan. second, hunt force posture, d.o.d. has recently announced major upgrades throughout the region that will make our force posture more mobile, more

distributed, more resilience, and legal. and the summer, with australia, we announced several new initiatives that increased our capabilities across a range of domains in australia, including u.s. bomber task force rotations, voter rotations, and future rotations of neighborly and army capabilities. weeks later, the united states and japan announced the first u.s. deployments of a marine literal regiment to japan. just days ago, secretary austin was in manila where the united states and the philippines announced four new sites at strategic locations across the country. third, on networking. despite prc efforts to divide the united states from our allies and partners, d.o.d. is focused on developing a constellation of coalitions to address emerging threats. that includes enhanced trilateral cooperation with japan and australia, and with japan and the republic of korea. it also includes our work in the indo-pacific with asean,

aukus, the quad, and european allies. in, closing as i have done before, i will conclude today by noting, as you did, mister chairman, the powerful bipartisan consensus that has a merged in the china challenge and the commensurate remade for the u.s. government to focus its time energy and resources on the end of pacific region is my enduring belief that we should be vigilant in perverting and enhancing a bipartisan reproach rain fundamental to our ability to compete effectively against the prc. thank you time and attention today, i look forward to your questions. >> thank you both, we'll have five-minute rounds, with as long as we can. let me start off, madam secretary. i view the china challenge as a multi dimensional issue. it's not simply a simple economic competition, security, cultural that goes across so many different dimensions, and

in so many different parts of the world so, i look at that multi dimensional challenge and in my view, it's no secret that i believe are diplomacy and resourcing lacks when it comes to meeting china's investments in diplomacy. so, i'll be asking omb in the administration to significantly staff up we want to meet the challenge. this is a huge dimension of what we need to meet. how does the department looking at making sure that its operations and resourcing, particularly through staffing and personnel expressed expertise are sufficient to meet the diplomatic challenge we face within within trying around the world? >> thank you very much, mister chairman. could not agree with you more, the scale and scope of the challenge is enormous. as a result, the secretary of state asked me to take special

responsibility, as you pointed out, for the organization, i want to thank this committee and the congress for supporting us in launching what is the china office of coordination. better known as china house and the department, this is really a new matrix organization. it's not just a rearrangement of the chairs at the state department. but rather, a way to make sure that we have a multi dimensional, multi domain awareness, integration of everything we're doing around the world, that we not only have an integrated strategy towards china, working with the interagency as well, but every single mission, around the world, has a bespoke china strategy. as you pointed out, china is everywhere in the world. i run a china strategy group. on a regular basis. bringing together all of those dimensions. i can't give you specifics, we're still working on the f---

budget to be released next month. you will see how deep and broad commitment, and a significant increase in our resources. for the indo-pacific, as you have long advocated for. and the fy 23 budget, our foreign assistance, reached 1.8 billion, a 50% increase from just seven years ago. yes, i would agree with you, we are not where we need to be yet. i believe we are changing our approach to give you one specific example in the indo-pacific, and the pacific islands, where quite rightly, china has positioned itself, we have taken a very new and bold approach. again, with bipartisan support. we just opened an embassy in the solomon islands, we are working on posts and will be announcing them soon in tonga, and kiribati. we're returning the peace corps to that part of the world, so, every single place we have a

bespoke approach, we are following through on those strategies, we are working on the resources to match that ambition. >> i look forward to seeing the budget proposal as a pursuit of that. here's another dimension, when we talk about multi dimensional, the prc is pursuing new and alarming ways to influence and control the united nations, including attempts to curtail into fund u.n. efforts to improve its human rights system. recently, in the u.n. budget committee, the prc led efforts with russia to slash budgets for several key human rights investigative mechanisms. how is the department pushing back against their systematic effort to subvert the ability of the united nations human rights system to confront abuses in china and beyond? >> i think it's a very important point. it's why it was important for the united nations to -- united states to join the human rights council. and to engage in a much more effective way at the u.n.. you are quite right, the

chinese operate in yuan system very effectively, for years. they have put people in junior positions, which you simply can sign up for financially, and put people into slots, and then those people move up the chain in the u.n. system. are you an ambassador, linda thomas-greenfield, is very engaged in looking at all the ways that chinese have penetrated the u.n. system. and figuring out, with our international organization bureau, ways to challenge all of that. i quite agree with you, we have a lot of work to. >> again, not a company to anything from the chinese, we can definitely take a lesson from their page book. they have systematically, methodically implemented there people in a way that ultimately leads them to have influence and a wide variety of cross section of the u.n.. that's the only place, world health organization, i could go on. what does the administration doing, chinese imports of iranian oil have exceeded 1

million barrels per day over the past three months. that relationship is mutually beneficial to -- gets to expect despite u.s. sanctions. beijing receives a step disco. so, what is the administration doing to increase the cost on china? for helping iran evade u.s. sanctions? how does it plan to make a measurable dent in iran's oil exports to china and other such that iran is not reaping the benefits of steady oil prices. >> excellent question. i don't have a full interview today, mister chairman. i'll get back to on that. what i will say, we are working on sanctions of asian, including by seeing what's happening two tankers around the world. taking actions that we can to interdict and stop those oil shipments, and to sanction those companies that are undermining our sanctions

regime around iranian oil. i agree with you, this is a problem. >> i look forward to hearing back from you and the administration. listen, you don't hide 1 million barrels a day for the last three months, and not know it's out there. it's happening. and it's happening largely with impunity. so, multidimensional china challenge is another one. it also involves iran. because that's part of our target. we should be doing much better. senator risch. >> thank you, mister chairman. i want to pick up on the point that the chairman raised, that, is we're all aware that the department, is of the intrusion of china all over the globe. different countries, different entities, the chairman mentioned the u.n., they've got a particular target for the u.n.. to get involved there. in every nook and cranny that they can.

one that concerns me, they're doing a similar thing here in the united states at the colleges and universities. that went on for years. pretty much, under the radar with most people not knowing what's going on. in the form of what they call the confucius institute on these campuses. now, first thing that happened, it stopped universities quit adding them. now, they're dismantling them. there's going to be less and less. having said that, in chinese now, instead of just a confucius institute, they're buying chairs in various departments, funding research in places like that. again, this goes widely on reported. occasionally, it rears its head, as we saw when we had confirmation from a person from the university of pennsylvania, i was staggered by the amount of money that china is putting into these universities. they're not doing it of the goodness of their heart, or to see that our universities are doing a good job. what kind of program, what kind

of effort do you have in that regard to monitor that? and do what's necessary to unwind that? when this happens, there's no doubt those colleges and universities are gonna get soft on china, they just are? money has a way of doing that. your thoughts on that. >> thank you, senator. as you point out, after peaking at 100 confucius centers in 2018, they're now only about 15 and so, putting a spotlight on these issues, is very critical to putting pressure on universities to understand what's happening. and what they're doing. i greatly appreciate the work that was done by this congress, and by the state department, to put a spotlight on the confucius centers. in addition, we are, in fact, doing the same thing, putting a spotlight where there are other things you mentioned in your opening statement, police stations that are being created. one was closed down in new york when i was in new york recently,

every capital where i know there are police stations, i've raised this issue. and putting a spotlight on this, asking governments, asking universities, to take a look at what they're doing, is critical. i do want to make one point though, which i think we all have to be very careful of. we think that people to people exchanges are important. this congress, on a bipartisan basis, has supported, over the years, people to people exchanges. we have, i think, over 290,000 chinese students who come to american universities. we are very careful about looking at visas and making sure that it's strategic departments where it might influence or create a problem for national security. we do not have those students -- it's very important we not closed down these people to people exchanges, on the other hand, we only have about 385 americans, who are studying in china, and we probably need to do something to increase the number of americans who are willing to study in china.

the final thing i would say, we all know that anti-american -- anti asian american hate has increased. we have to be very careful, as we put a spotlight on china, that we not increase hate against asian americans. it has led, as we have all seen, two horrifying circumstances. in our country. we need to make sure that does not happen. as we, in fact, crack down on exactly the kind of things that you've outlined. >> thank you, i appreciate those thoughts. we've asked for that list about what the taiwanese are asking for, do you know anything about that? is that your wheelhouse? >> what the taiwanese are asking for, in what sense? >> materials, military materials. >> oh, sure. jessica lewis, -- >> we know jessica. >> i know you know just go well. the assistant secretary for both political military affairs,

and last year, we notified 13 different sales to taiwan, including ten new sales three amendments to previously notified sales. it represents the largest single number of notifications for taiwan analysts 20 years. these included f-16 munitions, spare parts for the taiwan air force, army and navy's existing capabilities, and continued support for taiwan's radar program. since 2010, we have notified congress of over 37 billion dollars. in arms sales to taiwan. including more than 21 billion since 2019. we think this is quite critical. we believe we need to help them in asymmetric weapons capabilities, help them train and integrate their reserves, make sure that they have mobile and agile systems, and this is what jessica is very focused on.

to make sure that taiwan has what it needs, i don't know whether dr. rattner would like to add something from the defense point of view on this. >> briefly because my time is up. >> i will just echo what secretary sherman said. we are extremely focused on understanding and communicating with taiwan about what specific articles, defensive articles they need for their defense and for deterrence and we are laser focused on that with all of the urgency of deserves. >> thanks to all of you. i do want to underline the act in september of last year we were out a letter asking some specific questions about what the taiwanese were asking for. if you dig that out and see if we can get an answer to that, it will be very helpful. thank you very much. >> thank you. senator murphy? >> thank you very much, mister chairman. i appreciate you raising the challenge of resources at the state department right now. a quick example of how this

plays out in reality -- part of the pandemic, i was in dublin. the embassy there told me that in the lead up to my visit there had been a dramatic infusion of chinese diplomatic personnel to their embassy. the reason was there was a pending telecommunications tender in ireland at the time. the chinese were able to send in literally dozens of individuals to help huawei compete. we will reverse ended and our embassy by a very capable defense attachés. we didn't have the ability as the chinese did to be as nimble in making sure that we were supporting our efforts, making sure that it was western companies, western technologies who were ultimately being able to keep pace with chinese technologies, just another example about how our resources just no chinese resources now. i appreciate the chairman for making that a priority. try to sneak in one question for each of you -- i want to talk to you, secretary sherman, about the

challenge of fentanyl. we saw in 2019 nothing's changed. china had been the primary driver of illicit fentanyl and related equipment to the united states. china made some decisions internally and the pace of that changed. it just moved the precursor and the equipment to mexico. we had had a collaboration with china that we don't have today. it hasn't resumed since the presidents meeting with xi jinping. can you talk about how we can rebuild this cooperation if cooperation is indeed the way to go? what practical effect did the 2020 designations of a few forensic institute on laboratories and china have on our ability to work together on this challenge? >> senator, i suspect that every single one of us knows a parent who has lost a child to

an overdose. i certainly do. this is an incredibly high priority for the president as you heard in the state of the union and incredibly high priority for secretary blinken. it certainly will be neat when he does get back to a meeting in beijing which we will do when we think conditions are. this will be a topic of conversation. previously, as you noted, the prc agreed to impose classified controls which broderick shipments to the united states almost zero. we still continue to see prc precursor chemicals which are quite concerned being used in illicit fentanyl production. as you noted, we are now seeing fentanyl come in through mexico. we have engaged only mexico but other countries to put pressure

on china and other countries where there are precursor chemicals, not only fentanyl, but methamphetamine and other illicit synthetic drugs. this is a really terrible problem. we are taking a laser focus on internal harnessing -- >> thank you, madam secretary. secretary rattner, a short question for you. recently, u.s. air force general might manhunts tested in a memo -- my gut tells me we will fight china in 2025. i hope i am wrong. this kind of rhetoric around the u.s. china relationship undermines rather than further is our goal of avoiding. we want to be ready for conflict. our goal is to avoid. -- , do you believe that china has

made the decision to pursue reunification with taiwan through force? do you believe that armed conflict to the united states is as is general suggested inevitable? >> senator, as secretary austin has now said repeatedly, he and the department don't believe that an invasion of taiwan is imminent or inevitable. that continues to be our assessment. the department is laser focused on maintaining -- were going to continue working with our allies and partners to do what is necessary to ensure a free and open indo-pacific. >> thank you. >> senator rubio? >> thank you both for being here. thank you, mister chairman. i want to get a little broader. i think it's important to understand the strategically shun behind our tactics on everything that we do. let's go back to the late 80s, early 90s, and of the cold war. the gamble at the time was if we created this international

economic order led by the u.s. and the west built on this global commitment to free trade that this notion of -- this trade and commerce woodbine nations together. it would lead to more wealth and prosperity, it would lead to a democracy and freedom, basically domestic changes in many countries, and would ultimately ensure peace. the famous saying that no two countries with mcdonald's of them have never gone to war. that's obviously no longer the case. the point being that that was the night -- director general of the wto call that world without walls, rules based international order. others call it globalization. basically our foreign policy has been built around that even though it's an economic theory. it's basically what we build foreign policy around. i think it's fair to say that we had minute shine into the world trade organization, russia as well. i think it's now fair to say

that while wealth certainly increases through export driven economies, massive, historic, unprecedented amounts of economic growth in that regard, i don't think we can say either china or russia are more democratic. they are more autocratic. i don't think we can say they are more peaceful. russia has invaded ukraine twice now. the chinese are conducting live fire drills off the coast of taiwan. i think it's fair to say that gamble failed. we after -- i think the president hinted at some of that in his speech the other night. we are now entering a new era. what is that new era? what is our vision now for that world in which not just the global international order and world without walls did not pacify or by nations but in fact has now placed us in a situation where autocracies to rejoin communiqué are openly signaling that we need to reject western visions of democracy and the like? before we can talk about what we're going to do, we need to

understand what our strategic laziness. what is the strategic vision of this administration on what the new order of the world's? >> senator rubio, that is -- >> pretty much of that in two minutes? >> that's a really profound question that i probably can't fully answer in two minutes and 30 seconds. let me say this -- i think we all hope for that vision. what changed is that xi jinping it's not the xi jinping of the 1990s that we all thought we knew. he is a man as a president, a secretary, as secretary of defense as said who is the pacing challenge. the only country that wants to change that rules based order that can successfully do so and are trying to make that happen. it is true that our way of life, our democracy, our belief in our values, in the rules based international order is being

challenged. we have to meet that challenge. i believe we can meet that challenge buyer as the president discussed in the state of the union making sure we invest in our own country which is why the bipartisan support for the chips act, for the infrastructure bill, what we are doing in the inflation reduction act -- of all of the bipartisan efforts which have taken place here in congress are essential to making sure we can invest in our own country to be able to meet that competitive need and that we align with our partners and allies when president biden began his presidency. it is critical to reinvest in those partnerships and alliances. it is paying off because we are putting forward those values. look at what is happening in our pushing back against russia and ukraine. finally, we have to be ready to compete which is why we have to look at supply chains and make sure we either can produce things here in our own country

or we can do it with partners or allies who ensure that we have the resilience and the redundancy we need to meet this challenge. it is above all else a challenge about our values and it is why the president really ended the state of the union speaking about democracy, what it means, how we have to show what that means here at home, and what it means around the world. >> i only have ten seconds. secretary reiner, i'm going to ask you about the invasion of taiwan, very simple. is there any way we in this decade without china doing something about taiwan one way or the other -- is there any way you can envision getting to the end of the decade without china wanted to do something about taiwan? >> wanting to is different than doing it. i think they have intention but i think we can get to the end of this decade without them committing major aggression against taiwan. >> thank you.

senator van hollen? >> thank you, mister chairman, and thank you to both of you for your testimony today. great to see you, madam secretary. i want to follow up on some of the things you spoke about as well as in your testimony. we know china has the ambition of becoming the dominant country and self sufficient in key leading edge technologies. they have a plan to do it. they have their ten-year plan. they tried to follow those plans. i agree with you and with the president that the number one thing we need to do is get our house in order here at home. the chips and the science acts as a very important piece of legislation. we need to fully fund the science part of the chips. fund twe need to maintain our competitive edge. we need to prevent the most sensitive high-end technologies that are originating in the united states or with our partners from falling into

china's hands in a way that they can use them. i want to applaud the administration for its efforts in the testimony. in october 2022, rules prohibiting the export of u.s. technologies -- that's an important step. i strongly support the part ministration's efforts with regard to huawei with the biden administration. they have really expanded that, not just taken from one company, but across the board. it's a very sensitive technology. also, i want to applaud you for the agreement that is either finalized or in shape with respect to preventing the export of high-end manufacturing equipment for semiconductors that we are reaching with japan and the netherlands. that's an important part. there is an excess of a strategy which prevents our most important technologies from going to china.

it relies on our partners who have also developed technologies from agreeing not to export their technologies. i just mentioned a good example of a case. to be successful, we need to do this across the board. can you talk about the progress we are making dna list and help from those countries? >> very critical subjects. i think all of you for your support. i think we are also looking at a pilot on outbound investment as well of sensitive technologies. that is something we are continuing to discuss with all of you on capitol hill.

i think it's important. we early on -- my first surfaced secretary of state was -- to launch a new china dialogue out of conversations. we also began indo-pacific consultations with the eu. we made a lot of progress in that regard. we also -- i think we are really together in a way we have not been before on china at large and taiwan specifically. it was a topic which the eu did not want to talk about it first. it is now in every document whether it be the g7 or the eu or nato. china is now a strategic component of every discussion that we have. the ttc, the trade and technology council led by the secretary of state and the secretary of commerce, they are laser focused on technology. the secretary and modernization of the state department with

your support, bipartisan support has stood up a cyber and digital policy bureau and an emerging tech envoy. we understand this arena is the future. i think we are making good progress with allies and partners around the world. it's a very painstaking work. >> yeah. >> it's critical. >> thank you. i appreciate the recognition of the urgency of this matter. i know you're working on it. getting this right is key to the success, right? if you're trying to prevent the export of key technologies, one hole in the boat can ruin the entire enterprise. i want to mention a bill that i authored with former senator ben sasse called protecting u.s. intellectual property. it gives the executive branch many more tools to go after those who steel u.s. technologies. a report is due on that in 180 days. look forward to receiving that

from you as another part of the strategy going forward. i look forward to another case. the critical minerals piece is a big part of supply chains. i'm out of time. thank you, mister chairman. >> senator hagerty? >> thank you, mister chairman. i'm going to move quickly. i have a lot to cover. secretary sherman, my first question is directed to you. welcome. the seven-day chinese spy balloon was one of the most visible, persistent, egregious violations of u.s. sovereignty since the 9/11 terrorist attacks. it was shocking for me to see in realtime the chinese spy balloon fly with impunity over the state to some of the most sensitive nuclear weapons sites including my home state of tennessee. the chinese communist party is responsible for less visible but nevertheless deadly violations of american sovereignty which are taking place every day. i'm talking about china's exportation of fentanyl chemical precursors. the cdc found that over 100,000

americans died of drug overdoses in 2021. the vast majority of those deaths, over 71, 000, our deaths from fentanyl. the dea has reported that china is a primary source of the factional related substances which are trafficked into the united states. my first question to secretary sherman, since taking office, how many sanctions designations as the biden administration imposed on chinese enemies which are involved in the manufacturing and exploitation of professional precursors which are annually killing over 71,000 americans including children? >> senator, i have to get back to you on the specific number of sanctions and what those sanctions have been -- >> i look forward to getting that number, secretary sherman. i'm interested in what the state department is doing to hold china accountable. i want to flight something for you that's quite disturbing. on january 30th of this year, the united states imposed sanctions against mexican drug lords. the treasure departments press release called out a major drug lord for reporting, and i quote, precursor chemicals from china into mexico which are then used

to manufacture synthetic drugs, including fentanyl, and quote. the treasury department press release named the chinese entity which is involved in illicit fentanyl trade. i have a copy of the press release right here which i would like to enter into the record. >> without objection. >> secretary of state blinken's press statement on the same sanctions completely amid any mention of china or chinese entities. in my mind, this was a missed opportunity to publicly hold china accountable for their fentanyl precursors. mister chairman, i'd like to enter the second statement as well from the department of state which fails to mention china at all. deputy secretary sherman, why did the state department amid any mention of china in the secretary of state's press release on the fentanyl sanctions and it's the mexican drug lords? >> senator, as i said earlier, secretary blinken makes the ending of this horrible, horrible ability to kill americans over.

he has a key topic in his meetings in beijing. when we believe the conditions are right, we will be going to beijing. >> i'm rick lemon my time. communist china as a state sponsor of fentanyl. >> yes. >> i'm gravely determined that the state department admitted -- the secretary of state wanted to have this trip to beijing. they did not want to -- >> absolutely not the case. absolutely not the case. >> news reports that you run the state departments biweekly prc strategy group. it oversees the policy decisions. you are pulling back on a chance to mention the fentanyl sanctions to publicly hold china accountable for its role in the fentanyl scourge killing children in america. when you add the recent news that blinken's trip to beijing was not canceled until five or

six days after learning about the chinese spy balloon's initial violation of our sovereignty, it's just not a good look. it doesn't inspire confidence. i think the administration can do a better job. i appreciate your expertise and moving in that direction. i would like to go to a different topic now, taiwan. i was proud to contribute to, support, and vote for chairman menendez's law in the fy 23 ndaa known as the taiwan enhanced resilience act. time is not on our side. the united states has roughly 19 billion backlogs an annual arm sales to taiwan. at a recent public event, cia director william burns said the united states knows, and i quote, as a matter of intelligence, ccp general secretary xi jinping as ordered chinese military to be capable of conducting an invasion of taiwan by 2027. chairman menendez's taiwan law -- foreign military financing to

taiwan between now in 2027. deputy secretary sherman and assistant secretary runner, do you support the full implementation of menendez's laws of military financing to taiwan? i would appreciate a yes or no answer. >> i certainly think we have to look at every way possible to make sure that we meet the needs of taiwan. i think you all are aware that their production and delivery delays worldwide. we are reviewing those systems and talking to the private sector about those long lead production timelines and delivery delays because they are affecting all of our fms partners, not just taiwan. >> i understand. i want to know if you support the move or not. is that a yes? >> i believe we need to look at every single option we have. >> can you answer me yes or no? >> senator, the department was clear that any authorization in the national defense authorization act should be met with an appropriation as it relates to taiwan security support? >> chairman manassas taiwan

also authorizes a billion dollars annually in broad authority for taiwan. my next question for the two of you -- >> you're about three seconds over your time. >> thank you. i will come back to this. i would just like to say that china is a serious threat. i just want to see as to everything we can to avoid the lessons we learned in ukraine to make them tough, to determine what might happen. thank you. >> we agree. >> thank you to the witnesses. i want to ask a question that has virginia tied it. china has one of the most sophisticated global campaigns of oppression against dissidents around the world of any nation. and particular, the fbi has warned that china is conducting a global campaign to target uyghur human rights activists. the uyghur is one of the largest in the early states. we have a number of constituents who have been

engaged in uyghur human rights issues who have been targeted and harassed here but also find their family members still living in the xinjiang area affected. what is the united states government particularly the state department doing to make sure the authoritarian reach of china against people living in the u.s. is limited? >> senator, one of the things that we have immediately done working with the fbi is to look at the police stations which china is creating here and around the world. new york's police stations, so to speak, we closed down. these are not police stations at all. what they are our policing the diaspora of uyghur people in the chinese orbit, harassing them, putting them at great risk. we are working with law enforcement very closely to make sure that china can't reach into the united states

and harass and further undermine the human rights of uyghurs, ethnic minorities, and chinese americans. >> the chinese do actually have in-person a number of the family members of american residents who had advocated for uyghur human rights. what's the u.s. government doing to try to intercede on behalf of those unjustly imprisoned in china? >> so, the secretary of state and i have met with all of the families or a group of the families who are quite concerned about this and concerned about their family members. when we have met or communicated with the chinese, we have raised these cases. it's some instances, families don't want us to raise the cases because they are afraid it will target their family members. we are really guided by one of families want. we will try to do whatever we possibly can. i have to tell you, meeting with those families just as when we meet with all of the

families of those detained in china or held in exit bands and china, it's some of the hardest meetings i have to do. >> let me switch topics. the title of today's hearing is evaluating u.s. china policy in an era of strategic competition. i think we all know the competition is intense across multiple fronts. in many areas, it's more than a competition. china is an adversary. one of the things that we probably should do for our good and for the good of the world is to seek other areas of cooperation. it would benefit the world greatly if they could see, as tough as the competition and adversarial a ship is, there is at least enough communication to recognize on some small set of issues they need to find common causes and work together. that's good for the united states, before china, and good for the world to see that as well in terms of sending a stability message. what are areas, as you stand up

and run u.s. china policy, what are the areas which might be most likely to find some cooperation for the good of our countries and the world? >> the ones that we speak about the most, starting with the one that senator hagerty mentioned which is counter narcotics which is quite critical for all the reasons that he said, that others and ranking member risch raised as well, working on climate. we cannot meet the challenge on climate unless china is working with the rest of the world. i'm glad that they have reopened communications between their envoy and special presidential envoy for climate john kerry. i hope that conversation can continue even in this difficult time. we have talked about working together on a global health. that might sound sort of strange given that the chinese have been very protective of their data and genomic sequencing on covid-19.

i know there is great concern up here about the origins of covid-19 which remains not resolved yet by the intelligence committee. i urge any briefings you might want on that to -- i do think we have to work together on a level of health. we're going to see more pandemics. we need to be working together in this regard. those are three. people to people exchanges, ways that we can have our folks safely know each other in a better way because we don't seek conflict with the chinese people. we do many things and have discovered things together in our scientific community. it's in our security interest to do so. we have to be careful, thoughtful, and nonetheless i hope we can engage in people to people exchanges appropriately. >> thank you, senator paul? >> mister chairman, it's estimated that between five and

18 million people died from covid-19 worldwide. to a significant number of scientists, the evidence suggests that this came from a lab leak in wuhan. just a department fun coronavirus research in china? >> do we fund coronavirus research and china? i don't believe so, but i don't know. i'll double check and we will go back to you on that, senator. >> the answer is yes, you do. it's been going on for more than a decade. it is done through a program called predict. why is this important? we had 1 million americans. we haven't had any discussions about this. there were no hearings, nothing. people are unaware that their funding the research. who found out recently through the house on classified reports that money is going from the nih to american universities to the academy of military medical science researchers. we are sub contracting money and sending out. millions is going from the state department. the idea is this -- we will continue to identify

all the viruses in the world. we will be safer because we identify them. here's the question -- are we safer to have some guy or some woman calling down our cave ten hours away from wuhan coming up with viruses and bring it to a city of 50 million like one? this is what's been going on for a decade. it is a set out for an accident. it's a set of four a mistake. no one is doing anything about it. we continue to fund it. the main group which has been getting this money gets over 100 million dollars, a lot of it through the state department. they continue to get money. they don't file the reports on time. they didn't stop their experiments. we reward them with more money. 15 million people died! we haven't done a thing about it! no one seems to care! we're not even sure we fund it! just a department is a big funder of this project. it's a multi billion dollar project. it's a multi decade-long project. there are scientists from stanford, and mighty, prestigious universities around the country. these are not partisans. most of them are republicans.

they stand up and say, oh my god! what are we doing? we're bringing these viruses from remote bat caves to major metropolitan areas with no controls over this. we have been asking for information from the state department. we want to know more about this. you have the right to know. they've been sending foyer requests for two and a half years. they don't get anything! i've sent two letters. some of them are six months old now. we get, whatever, we're not giving you information. what i would hope for is that we could have -- people always talk about bipartisanship. could we not get bipartisan support for records? this is not partisan. we want to know what the usa department is funding. and i h resists our requests on the fund. the two things that we need for certain which have led us to believe this came from the lab that are big came because one was leaked, and this was a darpa request. the chinese researchers in china wanted from darpa money to create a virus that looks

exactly like covid-19. they asked for in 2018. we turned them down. we did the right thing. we turn them down for once. that is a mean they didn't do the research. many scientists and aha moment. oh my goodness, they asked for my degree something that looks almost like what we got. we don't have coronaviruses a nature which effect people having a fewer in a cleavage site. we're going to stick equally website to allow it to infect humans more. we found out that not because you let us know, not because the nih let us know, they still resist. this is the whole bottle of classification. it's to cover things up. we don't know anything about the 20th a. we had an illegal leak which went to somebody in the media. it's now public. they said the chinese wanted to create a virus just like covid-19 in 2018. the other thing we know is three researchers in the wuhan lab, the wuhan institute of our -ology, got very sick with flu like symptoms similar to covid

in november. we only know that, though, because the trump administration declassified it on the way out. we have to get over the classifications. we also have to be more forthcoming. i'm hoping the chairman will consider looking at our request. these are not partisan. we want to know all the information about funding of research in china. we want to know the interactions. there were cables going back and forth between the state department saying, holy cow, they're not wearing gloves! they don't wear masks while doing this research. they're doing it in -- most of the research that we think escaped was not done in the appropriate level. the state department knew about it. we've had no hearings about this. they refused to give us information. 15 million people died! million arrogance died! you won't give us information! look at our request. this is not partisan. they should be about discovering the origins of this. the scientific community is about 50/50 now. i would hope that we suspect the chinese have not been

honest. it's out of the u.s. government is withholding information from its representatives. >> i'll take back your request again. i would urge a briefing in a scif with the intelligence community on this. as you know, there is not a single view about this particular set of issues. i understand your desire to understand what occurred. >> we're asking for unclassified information that you hold. >> i understand that. >> senator merkley? >> thank you very much, mister chairman. welcome to both of you. thank you for the work that you're doing. i want to echo on tim kaine's concern about trans repression of the congressional executive which i chaired the last two years. i have done a lot of work on this. it's been such an expansion. i want to mention people like the american citizen whose sister, a uyghur doctor,

continues to serve a 20 year sentence for the crime of participating in a terrorist organization, meaning that she has been retaliated against because her sister here in the u.s. is an advocate for human rights. i do not see how we can tolerate a relationship in which the chinese are targeting american citizens. they're not the only ones, but they are the biggest perpetrators of this. every other countries looking at this and going, can we adopt this model as well? i know the state department, sherman, is taking this seriously. i want to mention a couple of things. one is that there has to be a sense that other diplomatic areas in china all have to involve the same -- this transgression against people in the u.s. is a red line. i just don't feel like we've elevated it to that. second of all, i spoke with the

fbi about creating a tip line specifically for transnational repression or specifically from china because the fbi wants to call their general tip line. they have been referred to him most wanted tip line. it's like, no, you have to have people who speak chinese, who understand the culture, who understand the history. we can circulate that connection. they know that they are going to have an experienced individual on the other end of the line who can work with them and not get them into more trouble, not in danger, if you will, their relatives back home more. if we want to truly understand the scope of what china is doing, we have to have much better feedback from the chinese community. we're not going to get it through a generalized fbi tip line. i just wanted to mention that and say i think this is something that i would like to persuade the department to pursue. i think it will be helpful in understanding the scope and starting to address it in an effective manner. i will pause and see if you'd

like to share any comment. >> thank you. quite agree that transnational repression is a terrible, terrible situation for so many. as i mentioned earlier, the seat and i met with families who are concerned about their uyghur families abroad as well as the fact that families are repressed in xinjiang because of advocacy by family members here in the united states. we raise these issues with the chinese in every appropriate meeting that we can. we are working hard to shut down so-called police stations which really go after the diaspora here. chinese american citizens -- i think your suggestion about the tip line will certainly go back to law enforcement. we work very closely with the fbi which shut down the police station in new york. these are very tough issues.

i understand your concern for them. it's quite horrible. >> we are absolutely not going to get a sense of the scope of the problem if people are directed to some generalized criminal line. that does not work. you can't publicize that among the human rights committee and half people trust or feel -- secretary ratner, i want to turn to military convictions in china. deconfliction is extremely important when you have tensions with a another country. we went through this over concerns of risks of nuclear war. we can't have deconfliction at the other side will pick up the phone. how are we doing in construction? i hope we have recent evidence from having responded to the balloon. >> senator merkley, thank you for your question. it's a really important one. secretary austin has said repeatedly that it is important that we have open lines of communication between the united states military and our

counterparts in china. that is because we need to communicate our priorities. it is because our militaries need to be having serious conversations about strategic issues lengths, -- >> all very important. how are we doing on that? are they open to it? have we built better alliances? it's still a big problem? >> it remains a problem, senator. we have -- secretary austin has met with his counterparts face to face both in the shangri-la dialogue and singapore and cambodia. however, over the last several months, the pla has continued to view the relationship is something that they turn on and off to express displeasure with other things which are happening in the relationship. we think that's dangerous. we continue to have an outstretched hand including immediately following the downing of the balloon. to date, the pla is not answering our call. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. as >> i announced, we are going

to have to close a little early because of the joint briefing which will take place. the secretary has to be at that. i have senator young next and then senator cardin. maybe we will try to get to senator romney. we welcome, as i did earlier, senator scott to the committee who is playing his role as ranking member on the budget -- on the banking committee. that is why he wasn't here earlier. welcome again. >> thank you, mister chairman. >> yeah, thank you, chairman. thank you to our panelists for being here today. i'd like to change gears a bit and discuss economic coercion. as i know, our panelists understand that china has effectively weaponized the interdependence that the world economy has on the world, as we colloquially have been calling it. they have been in an

intimidating multinational firm, denying market access and retaliation for even mere utterances from world leaders, and engaging in all manners of other activity to apply pressure, especially to smaller island nations throughout the asia pacific. the obvious goal here is to intimidate these various countries and give them a choice, either they can accommodate the desires of the chinese communist party, facilitate their ability to realize geopolitical ends through this economic interdependence, on the nations we take a chance on a free and open order, on democracy, on the united states. china is not the only offender, not the only country to try to weaponize economic interdependence. we saw russia do this in the

lead up to the invasion of ukraine last year with weaponization of the oil and gas dependency of europe. what is the united states doing? i know we are attempting diplomatically to deal with this. there have been other activities which perhaps you could touch on when i turn it over to you. i just came back from the asia pacific. i visited with taiwan and japanese leaders. i heard a lot about economic coercion, more than any other topic. taiwan has been on the receiving end of this as has driven. japan has been formalizing a policy to counter economic coercion. they want the united states to act. to that end, i have introduced bipartisan legislation with senator coons. the aim is to allow the united

states to quickly appropriate tangible assistance, give it to those who are on the receiving end of this coercion, provide other tangible benefits to partners and allies who have been victimized by maligned behavior, specifically proposing providing the president of the night states, this one and future presidents, with a range of tools and authorities which include boosting trade with affected allies or partners, requesting congress provide export financing, and temporarily adjusting duties on select u.s. imports to make up for disadvantaged and adversaries imports in our market. we also call for coordination of all these activities with our economic partners and allies. the g7 meeting will be held in japan in hiroshima in may. this will be item number one on

the agenda. i commend prime minister kishida for making this a priority. my sense is that the administration is on board with this approach. i am complemented by that. we will have my colleague joining in the effort as well. deputy secretary sherman, it seems to me based on everything i just said that we don't have sufficient tools to properly deal with these coercive activities. do you agree with this assessment? very briefly, why? >> thank you very much, senator. our teams, i think, are very close with yours and senator coons to work on this legislation. we are trying to expand our economic coercion to looks. we have learned a lot because of lithuania, australia, and others. >> yes. >> as he pointed out about the russian ukraine situation -- we agree that prime minister kishida making this a top priority for his g7 presidency is critical. we have done a table top

exercises on this. we think this is a critical area. we have managed to support lithuania and other countries which have learned a lot in the process. thank you for your efforts. we look forward to working closely with you on this. >> i heard everything i needed. that's sufficient for this briefing. i'm going to move on very briefly to a ships and science implementation question. beijing has been stealing our stuff, our intellectual property. for many years now. we don't want to steal the stuff, this cutting edge national security oriented research funded through chips and science. ships and science appropriates $500 million to the department to -- could you very briefly indicate what the consequences are of the lack of i.t. security and how the prc is exploiting our current system?

you've already implemented some of the chips and science provisions. give us a summary, please. >> thank you very much for the -- promote, protect, and i see t provision at the state department in support of the foreign diplomacy in concert with the commerce department which has the enormous lion's share of this fund. we have notified up to the hill some of the projects and lines of effort we are creating this year leading up to making significant progress in the five year horizon that you all laid out in the provision of this fund. i look forward to discussing those details with you in a private setting. >> my office will follow up. thank, you chairman. >> senator romney. that will be the end of the hearing. >> i think both of you for being here. i'm going to follow up with the senator young's point. i was with our chairman to senator menendez. i saw the challenges of china

penetration on the debt diplomacy issue. argentina has a -- it's not attractive because of debt policies. china is willing to be there. we know that china does it on the cheap. they stand diplomacy can be against our national security interests. i just really want to underscore that it's more than east asia pacific. it's our own hemisphere where we need china penetrating and using this as leverage. we know that they set up the china house. i know it's in the east asian pacific bureau. can you just assure us that it's a coordinated strategy beyond the east asian pacific

which is critically important but also our own hemisphere? >> very quickly on both, on debt as i think you are all aware of when the secretary yellen went to africa, dead was front and center. an issue for her in a zambia, she underscored that all creditors including beijing must participate in debt relief efforts for zambia. in sri lanka, that is a huge problem. the paris club has now taken some action. india has stepped forward. we are putting pressure on china in fact also come to the table since most of the debt is with the chinese. they can use their s.o.b. capability. ultimately, it ends up in that. we are working on all of that. in terms of your china house, i want to commit several things

to you. a senator risch knows well because he focused on this, china house has liaisons coming from every part of the department who spent some time in china house. they go back to their home heroes. there is an integrated beyond the ap strategy. it all comes up through eap. to me, i have responsibility for everything all over the world. quite frankly, yes, it might be housed in the ap, but that's just the anchor. it goes out throughout the world. >> i look forward to working with you. can i yield my two minutes to senator booker? >> you may. >> i'd like to -- >> that's an extraordinary act of grace and generosity. it is only topped by your wisdom and tenacity. >> don't use your whole two minutes to complement him. >> [laughter]

>> i really appreciate that. i really want to get into the department and finance corporation and the real power of that. congress created as a response to the rust initiative -- the belt and road initiatives. it's important to providing loans and equity investments and more. the dfc has limits but i really think it could be something which could be used in a stronger way. i think it has the potential to boost international development and really help to level the playing field and extend opportunities for us economically but in terms of national security. there is a famous saying that if you're not at the table -- if you're at the table, you're on the menu. i want to see if there are ways that we can be more at the table using the dfc. the millennium challenge

corporation, can we use is to expand our tool box not just for economic opportunity but economic diplomacy? >> senator, this is so important. in fact, thank you all for looking at what the dfc can do and whether it's opportunities can be expanded in ways which are helpful particularly to countries which might not be at the bottom of the developmental letter but sort of in between trying to raise up. the development finance corporation is also working very closely with our initiative, the partnership for global infrastructure investment, with the private sector as well with mcc. we have to use every single tool we have because our greatest strength is bringing the private sector together with what we are doing in the public arena. china can do that. it can put money on the table

without strings attached. the strings come later. countries go into debt. they don't transfer capabilities to countries to do their own development. i couldn't agree with the more. i would love to work with you in deepening this ability. >> thank you. >> senator romney will close out. >> thank you, mister chairman, for keeping us all here so i can get my few moments. there are just a few things i want to mention. chairman menendez and i last year author an amendment which was passed in the nba. it requires the united states state department to develop a comprehensive strategy to address the threat of emerging china. ranking member risch and i urged biden and the administration to start implementing our legislation. in our letter, we requested an update on the progress after 60 days. the 60 days marcus passed. invest, align, compete -- i would know that we need to go

from principles to a comprehensive strategy and include tactics. includes our approach to developing countries, to our global trade, to economic measures we want to put in place, our research and development investments here, global communication strategies, access to our universities, access to our laboratories, visas we provide to the chinese, international institutions who are going to be involved, our social media strategies, raw materials and strategies and our processing of those rematerialize, the role of usaid, defending the tactics the chinese are using -- you get where i am going. we need a comprehensive strategy including dozens upon dozens of strategic and tactical decisions which are combined, changed over the years, but it is essential in my view that we develop that kind of strategy and it is kept

in a classified setting. it doesn't have to go out publicly. we really need that. in this legislation, we look at the strategies of the nature which were developed by president truman and reagan and others. how are the strategies developed back then? how were they they -- were dealing with strategies will steal of the soviet union. they involved outside individuals, not just internal. they knew internal people would be captured by a group think. they wanted people from the outside, some who were experienced in developing these kinds of strategies. i spent my private sector career doing something called a strategy consulting. that is what we do. we help them develop strategies. it drives me nuts to watch us deal with china and have objectives but to see everybody going in different directions. we don't have a comprehensive let's put it together strategy. legislation with chairman menendez and i submitted and was passed calls for bringing

in an advisory panel of outside experts. it includes people from the center for strategic and international studies. it includes people from a ei, brookings, the whole range of individuals. we offer ideas and suggestions, comprehensively putting that together. it is likely to exist beyond just one administration. it becomes the basis for strategy going forward. i strongly encourage the state department to take the lead and make sure that we assemble that advisory board and lay out what would be included in a strategy. we consider the widest array of options and that we actually put that together. we ultimately brief ranking member richard and others in the committee -- the process is being undertaken. what are some of the conclusions? you have to run to another briefing. i'm not going to hold you up from doing that.

how critical is that we go from ad hoc principles and tactics that we apply from time to time to instead fashioning mines and comprehensive series of options? we select the option that is our strategy. we move on to that basis. not doing so -- we so desperately need to preserve our freedom and prosperity. we agree with you. we are in fact working on every one of those tactical areas that we identified, every single one. doing the deep work on each one is incredibly time consuming. the secretary does have a foreign affairs policy board. we have an international security board. i will take back your idea that we have an ongoing china focus council which we don't have a specific. we do consult with outside

consultants and outside experts on a constant basis. the secretary did so in his run up to the potential chirpy was making. we postponed it. i do think that all of the areas that you laid out are absolutely ones on which we have to be laser focused and bring together those tactics into an integrated strategy. that's what we are working on doing. we're having every single mission around the world have a bespoke strategy for their country. every single country is different. china's president every single one. thank you. >> thank you, deputy secretary. >> let me just echo senator romney's view. that's why i enjoyed this. that's why this is law now. one of the benefits of hearing your answer would be a more in detail opportunity to in some

briefing share with members who are interested about exactly how you're going about this and the universe that is being advised. i want to echo senator romney's concerns. senator paul has asked that the literacy reference we included in the record without objection. they shall be included. this record will remain open to the closed business tomorrow. i would urge -- with some degree of specificity. thank you to the committee for your appearance here today. i'm looking forward to seeing you at the intelligence briefing. this hearing is adjourned.

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