of the ones i'm going to confront a year from now. >> cofounder of the center for security,merican michele flournoy on the creation and mission and current defense policy issues. tonight at 8:00 >> next, author corey recko talks about the life and death of timothy webster. a former policeman turned union spy during the civil war. webster risen renowned as the union's top spy. he was the first spy executed during the war. the museum of the confederacy hosted the event. it is about 45 minutes. >> we would like to welcome everybody to our book talk.

i am kelly hancock, the manager of programs here at the museum of the confederacy. we do a number of different talks throughout the year. we have a brown bag lunch series that takes place on the third friday of the month. keep those options in mind. i am here to introduce to you corey recko. his first book, "murder on the white sands," was published in 2007 and won an award for the best book on wild west history. while working on the book, he began to research pinkerton's national detective agency. this led to the discovery of timothy webster. timothy webster is the subject of the new book "a spy for the union: the life and execution of

timothy webster." without further ado, i will welcome corey recko. [applause] >> thank you, everyone. i would like to thank everyone here at the museum for setting this up. and allowing me to speak here. i am author of "a spy for the union: the life and execution of timothy webster." i would like to read the introduction to you which gives you an overview of his life. as a new york city police man, 1853, he was assigned to work the crystal palace exhibition. it became known as the first world's fair. he was introduced to pinkerton, a scottish immigrant who had started his own detective agency.

in the 1850's, the detective agency laid the foundation for what would become the most famous detective agency ever. it focused on criminal matters and was often employed by government agencies. in putting together what proved to be a team of detectives, he often turned to policeman. timothy webster was one of these men. although he did not join immediately, he decided to accept the job offer after continued harassment. timothy webster moved to illinois and became one of the agency's best detective's. though quiet and reserved personally, when on a case, he used an outgoing personality to get information and gain friends.

he tracked a jewel forger. he also did more mundane work. then everything changed. abraham lincoln was elected the president of the united states. southern states seriously considered secession. there were threats to assassinate the president elect before he took office. luckily for the u.s., timothy webster and other pinkerton operatives foiled the plots. his service to the country did not stop there. the southern states seceded. timothy webster did not hesitate to defend his country, but he was not an enemy on a bloody battlefield. he put his skill set to use as a spy.

he gathered important information leading to -- his work behind enemy lines included trips to confederate camps in richmond. he even acted as a courier for the confederate army and took a correspondence from a general to a colonel. the secessionists saw him as one of them. his family immigrated to the u.s. when he was young. he was raised in new jersey. he married a local woman. the couple had four children. family was important to webster. professionally, timothy webster, who a police officer called the bravest, coolest man that ever lived, worked as a private

detective and served his adopted country. it is because of his brave and humble service that he is remembered. timothy webster began his career as a new york city policeman. and then went on to serve as a private detective and a spy. he lived a dramatic life to is no telling what he would have accomplished if his life had not been cut short. he was born march 22, 1822 in england. he was the fourth of seven children. two died in infancy. the family immigrated when webster was a boy. they settled in princeton, new jersey. he had a typical life. at 19 years old, he married his

wife. their first child was born a year later. soon he grew bored or for some other reasons, he left life in princeton and went to new york city and took a job for the police department. the trouble in new york at the time was the old department was not large enough or effective enough to police the large, growing metropolis. the department reorganized and modeled themselves after london's department. in 1853, he was assigned to work the crystal palace exhibition. what became known as america's first world's fair. it is here he was introduced to pinkerton. if the job was offered, webster turned it down.

webster served at a time when xenophobia ran high. the rise of the know nothing party. a general feeling against foreigners at this time. because of this, an investigation was begun into foreigners in the new york city department. of the 1400 officers, there were 477 foreign-born officers. somebody claimed perjury and said there were 600. it was a big difference to briggs, who began a year-long investigation.

this is the new york city hall where most of the hearings took place. of the officers called to testify, one was timothy webster. he was repeatedly called. he refused to cooperate. i would like to read an example of his testimony. mr. timothy webster, lieutenant of police, made his appearance and was sworn in. briggs, preparing to administer the oath, asked webster, you do solemnly swear you will answer all questions? webster said, i swear the evidence i will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. you do swear the evidence will be the truth?

webster said, i decline to answer any questions. briggs began the inquiry by asking, what is your name? webster sat silent. the court spoke up. you can give us your name, can't you? webster gave no answer. timothy webster, is that your name? that's the name i received the subpoena. what country are you native of? i positively declined to answer any question the committee puts to me. i wish that to be understood. he was called to more times and gave similar answers.

the investigation led nowhere. the chief retained his position. it may have soured timothy webster's idea of being a police officer in new york. shortly after the investigation, he became a detective in the pinkerton detective agency. what effect the investigation had is unknown. webster moved his family to illinois. the northwest police agency, founded by pinkerton, we change its name to pinkerton detective agency. at the time, it was still a growing regional agency. unfortunately, many of the records -- most of them from webster's time -- were destroyed during the chicago fire of 1871. little is known of what he did as an operative. what is known as he displayed cunning and leadership skills.

he jumped off of a moving train in michigan to keep up with a man. he investigated grave robberies in a chicago cemetery. he worked to find those behind an attempt to burn down the rock island railroad bridge. i would like to speak to you about the latter of these two cases. the history of grave robbing dates back to the 19th century. as medical schools needed cadavers to study, antiquated laws left them unable to obtain the bodies they need. medical schools often turned to resurrectionists who were grave robbers.

when the grave digger discovered this, he went to the undertaker. he bypassed the city sexton, the man in charge of the cemetery. in this role he had some legal powers, which gave him the power to arrest people. this might explain why instead of going to the police, the city aldermen went to pinkerton's agency. pinkerton assigned timothy webster to lead cemetery surveillance. they staked it out and found nothing. on november 5, he only had four operatives available. they arrived at 10:00 on an unusually dark night.

between 11:30 and midnight, a body was seen traveling away. two of the operatives -- one of whom was most likely webster, but we don't really know -- two operatives follow the buggy at a distance they would not be seen. as the buggy turned a corner, one of the operatives ran out and grabbed to harness in the back. back. harness in the the buggy was forced to stop. the operative ran back to the side of the road as one of the man exited the buggy. they could smell the corpses inside the buggy, so they moved in and arrested what turned out to be the city sexton. as one operative held him, the

other drew his gun on the men inside the buggy. at this time, the horse backed off. as he went to remove his leg, the other took off running. the operatives fire a few shots, but were unable to catch them. the next day, and operative set in the buggy and let the horse take him where it may -- it took two took him to a livery stable. they found a medical student named york. york was arrested. in the end, all charges against york were dropped. but resurrectionists continue to operate in chicago and elsewhere as antiquated laws failed to keep up with the needs of

medical schools. another north and south issue had to do with the railroad industry versus the steamboat industry. as the rock island bridge was being built between iowa and illinois, which would allow trains, instead of crossing the river by ferry, the bridge would eliminate that need. but those that depend on the steamboat industry fought the bridge. those in st. louis in particular fought the bridge.

shortly after the bridge's completion, a steamboat crashed into the pier of the bridge. as the ship was sinking and cattle were swimming and drowning, a part of the bridge collapsed. they sued the rock island bridge company, saying the bridge was an obstruction. the trial ended with a hung jury, 9-3. there may have been an attempt to burn down the bridge in 1858.

whether this was real or there were just threats, this brought the pinkerton detectives in. timothy webster was at the head of the investigation. he was named superintendent of the bridge. under him was a group of uniformed guards. the records have not survived, so we don't know if webster took a supervisory role or more active role in trying to find the culprits. while superintendent, he moved to davenport. he had a family back in illinois. it is likely he took many train trips to visit his family. even so, he made a big impact on the davenport community, even being asked to run for office.

the investigation ended up focusing on two men. they had been hired by the st. louis chamber of commerce, which mostly consisted of taking affidavits. in chicago, two years after webster arrived -- timothy webster, still posing as a superintendent, invited chadwick to the rail depot. they went on the train. by the time chadwick saw it, the paper was a warrant for his arrest. the first trial these two men had ended in acquittal.

it was ruled the location of the bridge was improperly described in the indictment. more charges were brought. by that time, they were dropped. the bridge was allowed to stand. railroads were allowed to reshape the nation. this is a detective book, from his work as a labor spy. he would pay with marked bills. among some, it is what they are known for. unfolding events changed the future. shortly after abraham lincoln's election in 1860, he received a request to investigate

secessionist threats to destroy the bridges between washington dc and new york city. he took a group of operatives to maryland. pinkerton was posing as a stockbroker and took an office next to a secessionist. he learned of a group had a plan to assassinate lincoln as he passed through baltimore. at the time, the way it was set up was lincoln would arrive on one train in baltimore and have to cross the city openly in a carriage to get to the train take him to d.c. which now seems like a horrible idea. in baltimore, which was split on the issue of secession, this was a horrible idea.

webster went to maryland with an operative posing as his wife. he joined a local militia in learned that they had similar plans to assassinate lincoln. because of this, his itinerary changed. he was sneaked through baltimore. he received much criticism for this, but as we saw how easy it was for somebody to assassinate the president, it was clear why it was necessary. years after the incident, the new york chief of police asked

one of the men to relate his experiences as a spy. samson -- he said he had been asked searching questions about davis. the wife had sent him a letter. it had a new york postmark, which aroused suspicion. samson recalled he was once asked many questions with regard to the letter. he explained it as well as he could. he explained the danger they faced. the desperados of the company were in a majority.

the men left for washington quickly. samson wrote, i remember a heavy cloth cap with a band of fur. they went to their hotel room to discuss the situation. after a while, they left their rooms to look over the main hall in the hotel. in the lobby were several of the national volunteers. samson recalled, i cursed my stupidity. he watched as one of the man turned and whispered to his associates. then they all walked out. the objectives did not know what to do -- the detectives did not know what to do. samson tried to figure out a way out of the city. at that moment, a man in a large

overcoat -- suddenly, in a low tone, the man spoke. for god sake's, come out of this. he realized he should not move. both men stood still. with his back to the stranger, he replied, i do not recognize you. samson remembered, the man's hand moved behind him as though bidding me to follow. he didn't know if he was trying to help him or get him alone so he could murder him. when the stranger walked out of the hotel, samson followed. he remembered, i followed him very closely. my steps almost blocking his. i carried a pistol and knew how to use it. on pennsylvania avenue, in a quiet voice, the man said my

god, where is washington going? why tom? frightened by the mention of the new york city chief of police, samson gave no reply. he was unable to get a view of the stranger's face. he described the man. my companion had on a great coat with the collar turned over his nose. samson kept his hand on his pistol. tom, for god's sake, tell me who is with you. and where is your fur cap? this made me -- he knew i exchange my cap for a hat. he must have followed me from baltimore. i caught him by the arm, spun him around. that flung open his cap. he looked calmly at me.

is that you, tim? samson was overjoyed to see his old friend, timothy webster. he had been on the force less than four years and knew him to be a man of exceptional honesty and courage. samson told webster how close he had been to shooting him. for the last five minutes, my finger has been on the trigger of my pistol. webster was in no mood for smalltalk. he said, your life is not worth a cent. there are 20 men after you. webster helped the two men out of the city. later, he made a verbal report to pinkerton.

they were both very much frightened after receiving news and left their hotel without paying their bill or getting their baggage. tw also called on judd at his room. shortly after this -- this is tom samson, the detective in his later years when he relayed this story, and this is the hotel where much of it took place -- shortly after this incident, abraham lincoln was inaugurated. the country fell into civil war. pinkerton was placed in charge of the secret service.

his main tasks were the defense of cincinnati. webster, went into the field in kentucky and tennessee. they wanted to find out the troop numbers and the intentions of the enemy. supply information. the general feeling of the south for the war. webster's first trip was to memphis. he returned with detailed reports. soon mcclellan became major general of the army. now he was starting to plan an offensive on richmond. timothy webster made his next residence in baltimore. while here, he contacted people he had met earlier and acted as a courier.

this provided a perfect cover for webster to move behind enemy lines without being suspected of anything serious. he did such a good job, he was also being watched by the baltimore marshall. they thought he was a southerner working for the southern cause. this led to a raid on miller's hotel. the hotel where webster was staying. he was arrested and his quote wife was arrested. all the letters he was gathering were confiscated. once it became clear who he was, they set up a fake escape. it would not be known that he was just let go -- the newspaper reported, escape of the state prisoner. it was rumored yesterday that the man webster, who was arrested yesterday, under the

charge of transporting letters, had succeeded in making his escape. he was removed from the police station and placed in the carriage under charge of the special detective officer and driven towards fort mchenry. when the vehicle arrived within a short distance of the main gate, before the officer could seize him, was beyond his grasp. he will scarcely be able to escape the city. he is a citizen from kentucky but has resided in baltimore. this raised the opinion of webster among his secessionist contacts. he picked up an impressive amount of information. he carried official correspondence for confederate general.

personal messages and received passages across enemy lines. as far as the confederates were concerned, he was one of them. he picked out information on rebel troop numbers, defense fortifications, and their plans. well returning north, something unexpected happened. he was asked to carry important documents. he undertook the mission across the dangerous water at night. as far as they were concerned, he was one of them berated this is one of webster's reports -- he was one of them. this is one of webster's reports. it is fair to ask, how accurate were these reports?

the fault did not lie with webster that the numbers were exaggerated. webster's reports, though not perfect, were fairly accurate and by far the most accurate that pinkerton was receiving. it seems pretty clear that the operatives themselves were not the reason that mcclellan got inflated troop numbers. it appears that mcclellan not only knew the numbers were inflated but requested it. the logic behind this was twofold. it was thought that the numbers would never be complete. the numbers were increased to account for the unaccounted troops. the problem was the numbers were, if anything, already too high.

increasing the number only made the problem worse. the other reason was that mcclellan never wanted to get caught facing more troops than he expected. the third rationale was to rationalize more troops in his requests. it was during a mission that timothy webster's health became an issue. he contracted rheumatism, which is a generic term for any ailment that affects the joints. this kept him bedridden for days at a time. his next mission south, because of rheumatism, he went with hattie lewis posing as his wife. this was supposed to be a short mission.

pinkerton panicked, not knowing where they were. the problem that pinkerton had in selecting these operatives as he had been using them in other capacities in washington dc. there was a senator, jackson morton, whose wife was suspect of sending messages to the confederates. it is these two men who went up to find webster. they found him in the monumental hotel on capitol square. the fences around the washington monument.

the hotel no longer exists. with the detective was chase morton, the son senator jackson morton. chase immediately recognize them. the men were arrested and sentenced to death. john requested to see a priest for confession before his execution. the father urged him to confess. scully gave in to this and confessed. he not only confessed to being a spy, but said that timothy webster was also a spy. the result was that timothy webster was arrested. so was hattie lewis. the evidence seems to indicate -- not only was his sentence

commuted from death to a few years in prison, he was also called as a witness at a court-martial. whether it was one operative or two that turned on him, the fact that he was arrested because of the confession and sentenced to death. police went out to the general in charge -- jefferson davis. -- pleas went out to the general in charge, jefferson davis, not to execute him. the north or south had not executed spies. in the north, when spies were arrested, they were held for a short time and released. jefferson davis ignored these pleas. this was a testament to his skills as a spy. the men were fooled, they were

embarrassed, and they wanted revenge. timothy webster was going to pay for deceiving them. in 1862, still suffering from rheumatism, he was helped up to the scaffolding. the first attempted did not succeed. the noose was put to lose. when the trap was sprung, he crashed into the ground. he had to be helped back up. the second time, it was choking him. he became the first spy executed in the american civil war. in 1871, a pinkerton operative went to richmond to retrieve his body. webster returned to illinois where he was laid to rest next to his son, who had died in the war from wounds in battle as a union soldier. if anybody wants to purchase any books, i have them for $35.

i will be at the table in the back afterwards. i have a few copies of my first book, "murder on the white sands," which is about a new mexico lawyer who disappeared near the white sands. the man who killed billy the kid investigated the murders. if anybody wants to contact me, you can visit my website. coryrecko.com i have bookmarks with that web address as well. any questions? >> what is the practical effect -- we know the effect of his work with the lincoln inauguration train -- what was the effect of his spy work in richmond?

>> unfortunately, no. because of the inflated numbers we talked about. not only webster, there were a lot of spies bringing in important information. but because military espionage was so new, commanders did not know how to use this information. because in mcclellan's case they inflated numbers, all it did was help scare him away. the end result was it was not very helpful because of how the used the data. [indiscernible] he was. that was a big part of it. he made contacts along the way. surprisingly, with no one suspecting, would ask, how many troops are coming from here?

they were happy to see him because he brought letters from loved ones. they were telling him everything he wanted to know. any more questions? yes. >> i had always questioned the competency of the pinkerton group. i think it had a lot to do with the over inflation of the troop numbers. if i heard you correctly, that was more mcclellan -- >> at the very least, mcclellan knew of the overestimates. we don't have their personal conversation to know exactly how that decision was made. it appears that pinkerton was doing it because he was requested to do so by mcclellan. that pinkerton defended the numbers many note -- years, too. he admired mcclellan.

whatever mcclellan said was true, he bought into. which was obviously a mistake. there are also mathematical errors in some of the reports. his work as a private detective, he was like no other. his work as a spymaster, that probably left something to be desired. more questions? >> what part of richmond did the execution take place in? >> it took place, at the time it was camp lee. before there was camp lee, there were fairgrounds. i have been there.

i can't give the name of it. there is an open field by the science museum. i have been to the area. but it has been a few years. i've been researching this book since 2000. it was a public execution. more questions? >> thank you very much. >> thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] join the conversation, like us on facebook at c-span history. this year c-span is touring cities across the country, exploring american history. up next, a look at our recent vito