inspiring and thank you for sharing it at large with everyone here and folks that are watching this. i'm a little bit later but thank so much for writing inconceivable and we wish you the best next month. thank you so much, all of you. thank you all for joining us. what will be an email in conversation with the reverend jim wallace. he is the author of several

bestselling books, including the new new york times best selling book, the false white gospel, rejecting christian nationalism, reclaiming true faith and redefining democracy. he is an american theologian, a writer a teacher, a political activist. he is the founder and editor of sojourners magazine. and most importantly, perhaps he has been a baseball coach for 22 years. welcome, reverend little league baseball coach. that is the most important thing. that is. and i must ask you, what is position of choice, sir, in baseball? my son's played college baseball, and they're their first baseman. they're hitters and first base. i played shortstop but couldn't hit the ball far as they both do. yusor have succeeded as an dad, and i would say as a fantastic american and as a great christian who has lived a fascinating life. and i think that life and the wisdom is in this book and let me shamelessly shamelessly promote this book again, i'm not

getting paid for this yet, but it is a fantastic book and i appreciate you writing it. the title is a mouthful and i want to discuss it. you're talking about christian nationalism. how would you, reverend, define christians nationalism in 2020 for america? great question. and i talk about it in the book as, white christian nationalism. the name spells the problem. first of all, we have this gospel of jesus, the most inviting, welcoming, inclusive message in the world that becomes white. so then the word christian. but it doesn't mean serve us and sacrifice and love. it means control and domination should be in charge. they should have preference. they should rule somehow and there's an old theology called dominionism. you know, this goes way back.

this isn't new that christians should be. and why christians are in charge and a nationalist. i'm getting up in years now, but i wasn't there for the social jesus. but i have read about it. and what do you told his followers? we go into all the world, all the world making disciples in every. serve for whatever i have demanded. so most of us would is about iconic biblical texts, particularly teachings of jesus. what did he say. what did he mean? and what does that mean? right? no. and know in the book you i went to an all boys jesuit catholic high school by the way. so i read the bible even though i'm a muslim, i think you'd be proud, too proud to learn that. i got the highest grade every semester. religious studies class and you're reading this book. i saw a lot of these passages, these beautiful passages that you brought forth that you are, in a way, reinterpreting, trying to take it away from white christian nationalism. but i want to stick with

christian nationalism specifically. you know why do you think it's a threat right now? and before you answer i want to mention this report february. i'm sure you know this report, february 2022, a report was released by baptist joint committee for religious liberty and freedom from religious foundation, in which they said that christian nationalism was a, quote, major for the violent and failed insurrection. of january 6th. well, indeed i'm at georgetown and the archbishop desmond tutu, chair of faith and justice, he was a mentor of mine, a dear friend, and georgetown, the first imam as a chaplain in of any university. so we are a multi faith jesuit school. so i'm glad to be told be that. i would say when you mentioned january six, i think jesus suffered identity on june six. you had people who were carrying confederate flags, american

flags, drove flags and some carrying jesus works that when these violent insurrection was storming the capitol and took the senate, they shouted jesus in their prayers. so to me, that's an abuse, a manipulation of false religion. and so a lot of people think the answer to the bad religion is no religion. i disagree. i the answer to bad religion which christian nationalism is is better for you good faith. and so what i'm trying to do in this book is, is, is reframe and refresh these ancient texts which do apply not just to people like my faith, but to -- and muslims and people of goodwill. a lot of my. would call themselves the affiliated, none of the above with the religious categories. they check that box. so they're the no any the nuns

and not a secular movement that's a lot of young people. it's not they do believe in god. most of the nuns believe in god or something bigger than themselves, but they don't affiliate with religion because of what we're doing and not to your saying and not say. so to me this is a really a critical moment for genuine faith good faith, true faith to express itself and speak and act and have a conversation with those who i think are doing that religion. and, you know, as a muslim, as a person of faith like you, many in my community feel like the religion and, the prophets have been hijacked. that's the word that has often been used by extremists who have made jesus and prophet muhammad into sidekicks that they use and abuse for ideologies of, supremacy and power. and in the united states of america, and especially in this book, you talk about white supremacy and how it's tied to

christian nationalism. can explain to the viewer how white supremacy functions with christian nationalism in america right now. yeah. well, we have to go back to our beginnings and this doctrine of the discovery. it was called k to america and literally iran equated indigenous, almost literally to steal their land. and then we kidnap africans to turn into a brutal chattel slave trade for freely. that was our beginnings, that what i call america's original sin is a sin and repentance from sin mean just feeling sorry or guilty in islam and judaism and woke christian. but it was turning around stop your dress from going in the wrong direction. turn around and go in a different direction. so i want to bring us back to the beginning before our

beginnings, which was in the first chapter of the first book of genesis. there is this text i turn to you in the book and i love this text. so i imagine you and i are surround by political noise all the time. we just have to listen. a lot of your viewers feel the same way. they're surrounded by noise and they're very weary of it. and then the text is. then god said and god said, but be quiet. listen. then god said, here's what god says. let us create human god. that's all of us in our own image and our likeness the creation of all of us, humankind, god's children in god's image and likeness, the foundation for all of our earthly talk about human rights, civil rights, and rights. so in that chapter, i apply genesis 126 to voting rights, and i see any suppression of a vote or intimidation of a vote

or subversion of a vote because of skin color or any other reason is literally assault on image of god on a modern day in the grip, on a moral day. and so islam, judaism christianity all teach that. so let's go back to the beginning. the real, the real, the and how it undoes, undoes and needs to transform our beginnings as a nation. you know, in the book, like you mentioned, you you cite several of these beautiful verses many of us know. and it's almost as juxtaposition between these verses and what many christians in america now believe. so let me give you an example. according to a prr i report that was done in conjunction with brookings in 2023, white christians in america are, quote, notably more likely to view immigrants as, quote, an invading force more than any other religious groups, including 61% of white

evangelical protestants believe this. 51% of white catholics and 46% of white mainline nonevent protestants. how do we reconcile that with verse luke? 1025? well, the that treatment, that language. immigrants going on all over place, the othering immigrants is is direct contrary to what the bible says. in particular, we'll go to matthew five first, which was my conversion text. jesus says, i was hungry, i was thirsty i was a stranger. the word stranger immigrant. that's what the word stranger means. i was sick. i was in prison and and you weren't there for me. you didn't me. it's a law. when did we see you? hungry and thirsty and naked. sick prison as you turn to the least of these, he says you turn to me. so how we treat immigrants and

texans is really how we treat christ. and for luke, this is the wonderful good samaritan parable, which is known to a lot of your people, whether they're religious, not. and i love this. the story here's here here's a man who's beaten by the side of the road. his love, her and robbed. and there he is and all the jewish scholars tell us he's a --. and then his lawyer comes to jesus and says and i learn from my study of this text that the lawyer was, a washington lawyer who was a wash over. i know that tone of voice. right. he says, so what do i do when harry a light and jesus as well? you'll love the lord, your god with all your heart, soul, mind, and then you love your neighbor as yourself and how you love your neighbor will test your love of god. so he says, well, who is my neighbor? oh, that's the most important question for a democracy. who is?

my neighbor, jon meacham, the great historian, says, unless we treat our citizens fellows as neighbors and not enemies, we're in deep trouble here. so jesus uses an example. the neighbor in this samaritan? no, the jordan's jesus audience here, none of them thought there were any good samaritans. they were mixed race. have bri. they were they were false worshipers. they were dangerous. stay. it's all through the new testament. yet one who is on other sees one lying on the side of the road whose other to him and whose people have authorized samaritans like this samaritan. yet he stops. and the other helps one other to him. this is a transforming parable, and it could help the good samaritan could help lead us, i think, to a genuinely multiracial democracy in the

title. that chapter is your neighbor might not live in your neighborhood who are real neighbors are is what jesus is trying to say. and the other ones who are different than you are powerful men and that's the jesus that i encountered when i was by jesuits in an all boys jesuit catholic high school in the mid-nineties in the bay area. and yet here we are where the are. right, whether it's undocumented immigrants, whether it's muslims, whether it's lgbtq people, whether it's black people, whether it's christians who disagree with maga, whether it's democrats they're seeing as invaders, as vermin. they're seeing as a force that is trying to replace these individuals and i want to go back to that study of that report that was done by pri, because. nearly one third of white evangelicals, regardless party affiliation, reverend express, support for political violence among americans with a favorable view of 41% of people are open to violence from two american patriots who feel that they're

being replaced by not these neighbors, but invaders. and the that i encountered now has been transferred formed into this weapons ized warrior who will be resurrected with an ar 15. can you explain in the shift of this reimagining of jesus, not as a person who welcomes a neighbor, but will be armed to the teeth and repel them at the border if necessary. it's a reimagining. it's a manipulation. it's a distortion. using religion for power. i'm startled and concerned about those those numbers you just laid out for us and a lot of people are saying a lot of your media colleagues are saying this is a test of democracy in this election up as usual, republicans, democrat. i always say don't go left or right, go deeper. there are deeper issues here. it's a test of democracy.

i think the biggest test in my lifetime or really since the civil war. but this book says it's also a test of faith. test of democracy. but it has to be. and it those numbers point this out. so dramatically. it's a test for faith communities are would be and say who we say we are or are we going to be manipulated by? political trajectories here is. i'll just say that donald trump political trajectory is fear to hate to violence. that's now our trajectory to make people afraid cause them to hate the vermin, the animals, all these names are being used. these are people made in the image of god from guess and violence becomes except and jesus is is not this way of violence. so i want to change the

trajectory about x by raising the of faith. so let's have a discussion. let's have a conversation about what these texts mean and when jesus says how you treat the immigrant, talk about the immigrant is how you treat or talk about me. that's what text says. so hold people accountable, particularly who say they're they're christian or or they're holding a bibles or they're well, they're selling bibles for their own or literally. one of the things that most struck me, i'll just say, was the one that donald trump put up of a courtroom and he's at the defense table and next to, him at the defense table is a cartoon of jesus at the defense table with donald trump. he's more than any other past

candidate. he's comparing himself to jesus christ. and then he says, i'm being indicted for, you know, that's not true. and the way you treat immigrants, unless you talk about them before into a courtroom is literally and tied to teaching of this jesus. so i'm saying i am raised evangelical christian family. i was raised on that and it's wrong. it's just wrong and must be controlled and let's have a conversation. when donald trump was bible quote, what does the bible say. let's open it. let's read it. what does it say and what do you believe about that? and what do you your next to jesus on this on this defense table by your dad yourself? what did you say? how to treat the poor, the immigrants, those who are those who are in prison, mass incarceration. how do we treat people?

so i want this to be i want the faith factor to be decisive this election not, just the democracy factor that's crucial. but the faith factor. what does our faith mean? christian. jewish as well. what does our food need and how do we apply our faith to this political dialog so important for this election year, i want to get into that later on in the conversation specifically how we reach out to the faith based communities. so i think are also being manipulated by fear, but if you don't mind me asking, you know, as a christian, as a person who believes in god and believes in jesus and the true jesus, how does it you feel personally when a twice impeachable guerin who was held for sexual assault by a jury of his, compares himself to jesus and holds the bible. i mean, just the emotional, visceral reaction that this person is branding himself as the warrior for christianity and

jesus. well, you recall he he he got a general to clear the non violent, peaceful protesters from lafayette square. you want to st john's church now i know st john's church i know it rector the bishop there no permission and he held his bible ironically revealing upside down. he's not comfortable with the bible. he held it upside down and now he's selling one. so that is that is the initial visceral response is like the bishop when she was called by everybody was just, stop, you're doing this after pushing protesters out and and so the first response is, i believe it. so this is stunning. but no, i'm saying and in this book i'm saying, let's let's take the bible back. let's take a bottle back to him and his supporters and those who are christians.

and let's say, what does the bible say if you get a hold it up like that you need to be accountable to what it says. so i'm trying to go back to what does it say in relation to behavior, language, who you attack, policies. let's, let's, let's some accountability here. i don't want to just be appalled. i want to bring back what biblical faith really does mean and the teachings jesus, which can be listened to by anybody no matter what their faith. this is contrary to the to the bible, contrary to what jesus taught. so let's deal with it in this campaign and not just be appalled, but take the bible back to him and his surrogates. and i think i think there are persuade evil people out there. i think wouldn't written this book if i didn't think there were persuadable people. and so there are lot of people who are stuck who are confused. in fact, jesus said one of the

texts explore in this book is john eight. you'll know the truth so is jesus and the truth will make you free, make you free, which means to me. no, the opposite of truth isn't just lies it's captivity. the loss of freedom. truth and freedom are individual. and a lot of people out there, good people out there are captive, they're captive. they're stuck in believing all these lies. and they're just so i want to let's have a conversation that can help set captive people free and go back to what jesus and the bible really say. you mention that verse you talk about in your book. there's a chapter specifically john 832, which i want to quote. if you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. and yet here are in 2024 america. and according to the polls and

studies emerge a majority of trump supporters, many of who are christian believe in conspiracy theories such as qanon and the deep state and the replacement theory. and i'm sure you've seen these very disturbing polls that say they believe more than their own pastors and family members. the question i have then is how do we win over these people when they their own truth and? they live on earth three and anyone who gives them a contrary truth to what certain news stations and certain media give, they're seen as the enemy of the people. well, you're a journalist. you see also how the world we're now divided into literally parallel universes, facts. when i was growing up, we watched after dinner every night. our family, walter cronkite, only a half hour news every walter cronkite said. and he ended by saying and that's way it is. now, you might not like the

facts. you heard and there was certainly racial bias those days and black events didn't get covered much but most people believe that's way it was now, we don't have any agreement on how how it is and people believe these lies. and as say websites and conspiracy theories and qanon and a networks that are deliberately lying and there are very few places where people can of different political persuasions can find agreement. and that's the way it is. that's the way it is to cold. cronkite is a real real danger right now for immigrants, immigrant families, for black pastors who call me and they're afraid of the policing of their children and young people, their youth group. and so let's and i've learned over the years what changes

people is proximity, ideologies. and so we have been separated from each other. and when when white evangelicals get to know immigrant families, refugees, and they take them in, it's, you know, so do we create places, environments where we get proximate to each other and how that conversation place is crucial? i can't calculate in pennsylvania, michigan, that's where i went on this book tour, first of all, to these states, when you have 500 people show up in grand rapids, michigan, for a conversation, you know something's going on. so so how do we have these conversations in our communities show up to school board meetings, go up to code forums, show up to local meetings and make your voice be heard. so a lot of the times i'm in boston here, we had a great

conversation last night and said, don't walk. you're saying finally a good conversation and faith in politics. take the converse out of here in the streets, in the congregation and the mosques and synagogues and christian churches. take it there and let's have a conversation. so i want to make the faith factor a factor in this election. you're not accept that religion. and king king said it well, he said he said he reminded the churches he said, we are not the masters of the state. we are not the servants of the state. we are conscience of the state that we have to become again. and i think a lot of people are stuck and they're captive and they they need to hear the truth so they can be set free. you know, you talk about proximity. i love a good superhero origin story. let's take the delorean back. several decades when you were a young white teenager in detroit.

can you tell us how your proximity and your relationship with black churches really helped formulate not just your faith, but your commitment to social justice. you about it a little bit in the book, and i think it will be very inspiring for our listeners right now. well, i'm in detroit, i'm in a white church, a white school, a white neighborhood, a white evangelical church. and at 1516, i begin to listen to my city means reading papers here in news, watching carefully, having my first conversation with adults and something really big and really wrong. and i couldn't get anyone in my white world to talk it. why is life in black detroit so different than life? and why detroit? at least that's why i'm reading it here. they said, oh no, it's always been that way. and and i hear there are black

churches and we've never been or been visited. well, i don't know one honest answer. i got soul. if you keep asking these of questions, you're going to get into a lot of trouble. that's proved to be true. so i tell my students at georgetown i told, trust your questions and let them take you wherever. they lead you. and for me, my questions took me to the city, what we call the inner city in those days. and just a few blocks or miles from where white people live. and i showed up. i got jobs in where young black men were working like me. i was working for money for college. they were supporting their families. and i met these young men whose life stories were so different than mine. so their and their life stories being proximate to them begin to change my life story. and i had these to use a religious word, epiphany, revelations and realization and

one night my one of my buddies, we were janitors at detroit edison and he took me home, meet his parents. his father passed. his mom was too. and siblings and got to talking about the police. and she said, which is mom said, yeah, that's why i tell my children, you ever lost and can't find your way home. you see a policeman ducking under a stairwell high up in a building and when the policeman passes, fine, get up and find your way home on your own and when she said those words, another militant person, political, just a mom caring for her kids. my mothers to her five children screamed into my head, if you ever lost, can't find your way, i'll look. a policeman. a policeman is your friend. he'll take you by the hand, bring you home, and i begin to that. here's this black family still waiting to be included and to be secure and save.

and i learned it applied to everything else. true. and so i began to look at the structurally and my dad was an navy veteran, came back from the pacific. he was a mechanical engineer and a destroyer or he came home and all the guys like my dad got a loans for their first job, got a g.i. bill, which for education so education and housing make middle class. my government made our family middle class they use affirmative action program the nation's history no black sailors on his ship got fha g.i., no black guys anywhere got their if they had i wouldn't have been in an white neighborhood but all white school and all white church is racially, racially stretch. strategic, racialized to keep us from having proximity with each other.

well, i was blessed. i went to the black church and just showed up and they took me in. oh, and answer my obvious white boy questions. and one of those young black church that i met is now 95, and i was with them after that in los angeles. he was the dean fuller seminary and. he he's still an elder to me. and i met people all my life has always been changed by going to war. i was never supposed to be and meeting people i was never supposed to meet or know, talk to or become friends with. that's what changes. so i feel deeply grateful. i'm back to detroit again in two weeks in lansing and and all over the state. but that's what we need. we need to have places, platforms and me. three of them are congregations, schools and sports. and i think that proximity, for

example little league baseball coach. so i got these year old kids and we had some conversations after games practice about these things. so with the permission of the black players, as i said, you know, to the white players, you know, your teammates hear black teammates and classmates, they all have a talk with their mom or dad about the police, how to behave and presence, what to do, not what to do, not to do your hands, how to be careful and and so some of the black players, the talk they had with their parents, shared that with the white players. we never had that talk. and their white liberal, progressive parents. and you know, what's going but when we got finished with the talk, it's not true that these white players felt sometimes people say guilty, responsible and terrible about themselves.

no, there were they're -- at happening to their black teammates and classmates. and so i'm in touch with lots of no, they're in college or finished with college and they're students still do their work in systemic racism. and so this is systemic. it isn't personal is structural. and we need to confront these structures that have this embedded in them and change them. and i think we can and i think we could do this in a way we've never done before. but first we have to win this battle for. democracy and the integrity of our faith in the next six months. you know, you mentioned racism and the name for that is white supremacy. and as you know, supremacy dies hard and it reinvented. and in this current moment where we are struggling for democracy, white supremacy and some of these individuals, white christian nationalists, have been using cultural wedge issues to try to win over people of faith happening in my community with muslims, happening with

african-american christians, with latinos and specifically what they're doing is demonizing lgbt. q and they're saying, listen, come to us, because at least we believe religious freedoms and look, we all dislike the same group and then they promote a conspiracy theories. and you're seeing it, reverend, win over folks in the you're seeing them win over enough people said aha the lgbt q and the woke are taking over in this particular moment where. you might disagree with me. i think it's a tactic of some of these individuals to do a divide and conquer. what do you recommend to faith based communities communities color to not fall for the trap. well as you point out just to say lgbtq are all initials that stand for people who are beloved of god. let's start it, beloved of god. and no one can challenge the and whatever, whatever discussions we have have to recognize the

dignity and the humanity of all those who are being othered by politics. and so to my last time on your last question, white evangelicals and black evangelicals are very different. the word white evangelical, that phrase the problem with the is the word that controls the phrase is an evangelical. it's white, not christian, but and black christians often helped teach me way forward here. so how do challenge what you're saying doing their fear they're wanting to to deny the dignity people who are different than they how we do that religiously and, theologically, not just politically. i don't think we're going to win this battle with politics by itself certainly not partizan politics. how do we get to the deeper

questions of what kind of nation do we want to be? what kind of? and i think it's it's things that people can do where they are. everybody who's listening here isn't somewhere. you have places and spaces where people listen to. and so how do we do that? how do we want books full of stories about people doing ordinary people? and one of them is a it's a favorite of mine is one of my team has a father, a scottish is a presbyter in minister presbytery minister in rural georgia so areas in rural georgia and and his wife is in the choir as is often pattern of spouse in the choir and they practice before every and so here they are practicing one sunday morning then the choir master says a prayer at the end of the practice and she's not militant. right wing bega just scared.

she scared about what you're hearing on the news. oh lord, please protect us from those cartels of immigrants who are coming with to disease and drugs and rapists and criminals and protect our soldiers who fighting to protect us. and the pastor's says, stop, stop, stop. that's not true. and we don't lie in. that's not true. and we don't lie in church. so she we can discuss that. but not true. and we shouldn't lie in church. now, she had authority stand up and say this isn't right. right. so how do we do that? do we use our time? merton hughes, as you know, from a jesuit, the catholic said everything is about relationships. and i think that's true. and so i'm saying let's build our relationships. let's let's go home and students and talk family and friends and

and friends and in our congregations interfaith. so we have this thing called face world united to save democracy face united to save democracy black clergy were but imams who joined? rabbis who joined were in turn critical states where voters oppression is on the rise. i call it lawyers and collars lawyers are there to make sure things go well, but the colors are there to provide a kind of authority in presence. and we teach people trained a thousand already and people can find out by going through united the saved democracy they can find it are training go and we've trained a thousand called chaplain already so far to is very available places in de-escalation. how do we de-escalate confrontation and potential violence but how do make sure that people have the right to

vote fairly equally so i want to put faith in the practice and not just talk about in these critical times. you know, the bible has two kinds of time. one is kronos. tick tock, tick tock. other time the bible calls other kind time they call higher roast kairos. time is time, which changes time, changes events. for a long time we're a kairos talk now with this election. this isn't just an area for you think this is a time where we decide what kind of people what color nation, who we're going to be and who we as people of faith are going to be. and whether people of faith or not, all of my students are they check none of the above categories. they don't affiliate with religion crusade yet. most believe in god or something bigger than they are and they want to. they're looking for authenticity

and courage and inclusion. that's what we're looking, you know, speaking about winning over and relationships and trying to protect this thing called democracy it oftentimes happens at the ballot box. and you might disagree with me on this, but i have often told democrats that they are terrible when it comes to talking to religious communities people of faith. oftentimes some of their ambassadors and politicians don't mention faith, see the ground, which then is taken by, i think, bad faith actors make jesus into a mascot or they mock and ridicule religious beliefs. and i have always told them that if you reach out and if you speak with some religious values, you can win over these communities and. so because this election, i think you and i agree, is so instrumental to the future of, this country, the character of this country, how would you recommend democrats specifically politicians reach out to faith based communities that could be won over, but oftentimes they don't hear any faith based values or messaging from democrats. well, i will disagree.

i agree strongly with that. and i'm saying that to my friends all the time. i did an earlier book called god's politics. the subtitle was why the right gets it wrong. and the left doesn't get it, which is still true. and so there are democrat like chris --, senator chris --. warnock talk about faith very freely. but many don't. they're afraid of it or are. and i run into i'll be blunt. i read and run into people who i call secular fundamentalists. yeah, many of them most to religion per say, you know, and they they really don't want to talk about it. and they want to all religion been wrong so and that's a mistake it's a fundamental you know i don't want either side to use religion and manipulate it for a partizan cause but they should talk their very what motivates them and if faith is

of what motivates them, democrats or republicans, they should talk about what it means. so have a conversation. and i've had conversations up on the hill. i remember when they put you these immigrants in in cages these and they put their kids in other cages and deported some those kids and members on the hill republican and democrat people of faith were very appalled and concerned and didn't know what to do. and the republicans were afraid of speaking out because it was their president who was doing this. and i remember a meeting that i was invited into in the back of his white office of the senator with colleagues republican and democrat so small senator sitting on the floor and talking about our faith and there all were people who and we talked about the good samaritan like we just sit here and out of that came a letter, a strong letter.

i was nine republican signed it, told president trump. then stop doing this stuff. it was policy that separates families. and so i think i'm not going to give up on faith or conceded to these right wing political people who are just our politicians. so i say movements have to decide who they can persuade, but also who they must defeat. i mean, nonviolently at the ballot box, but their power brokers, religion, political power brokers who just want power. and they're going to do that by any means necessary. and i hope we've in this conversation we have, we helped to persuade people and those people be defeated at the ballot box. you know, you mentioned a couple of times about the rise of the nuns, right? the folks might be spiritual, but they don't want to be affiliated with religious groups

or institutions and they see religion and religious as instruments of oppression. specifically, they cite homophobia, misogyny and racism. and according to the pew research center 2020 for it did this this data just came out 28% of americans now classify themselves as, quote, nuns. 17% of whom identify as atheist, 20% as agnostic, and 63% as, quote, nothing in most nuns said that they were actually raised to be religious and the majority were raised in christian households. what can you what message can you them? how can you sell that to them without selling it them that faith is a force of good and faith offers, hope and goodness in times that seem utterly hopeless. should a preacher preach it so so let's talk about the i'm glad raised them because i did a pub quiz last i'm with lot harvard

law school and other students were there it's boston so i said here's a pop quiz. what's the fastest growing denomination in america and the fastest growing is the nuns. those who check that that affiliation box and and and they're looking for something different and in my classes at georgetown on the last day of class, which for me is week when the semester will talk about the class and i'll invariably hear, you know, i was nervous about religion and i don't want to start my throat. but that didn't happen here. you just raised how it could a force for good and some of them said, no, it's george jones school. i've never heard about catholic social teaching before. i've never heard of a black church before, but i what i'm hearing and so i'm more open to that now than i've been before. so this is going to be a time

when a new generation they're watching us. they're watching faith communities and how we respond to the moral issues and values in an election like this. and i think, you know, they're paying attention to what we say and do. and a lot of them want to be mobilized to help. we're going to send students to help with the polling places, nearby states and the big phone banks and pizza and phone banks about making sure people are registered and can get out to vote and have a ride to the polls and all that stuff. because we want people vote. and we just learned that in ohio. 6000 voters were purged from from from the rolls and turns out they're mostly black voters who were purged. now they would finally find in november that they're not registered when they thought they were went to vote. so now black churches in ohio

are having on sundays nonpartisan want to make sure you know if registered or not so they find out in church if they're registered or you know and grace's and mamas not and and so here we are black churches again it's not it's voter registration nonpartisan and we're having to repair the system and so i think is a time that our young people see us standing up and speaking out as of faith from from whatever tradition word, from this movement, first tonight it is multiple multi-faith, multiracial and multi-generation of same time. so to me, that's the future, the hope. how can we live democracy in a pluralistic american where all of us belong? you know, you start your book

with this quote from paul the sixth. if you want peace, work for justice as we're speaking right now, there a multi-faith and multiracial across colleges --, muslims, black folks, white folks and nuns who want peace and justice, palestine and who want a cease fire. they are being dorks, too, being targeted. they're being harassed the police are being unleashed against them being called terrorists. you've through that as well. you stood for civil rights. you know, the protests against apartheid, the protests against the vietnam against the vietnam war. what advice do you have to these students, these growing coalition of students right now who are standing up for peace and justice overwhelmingly most of more peaceful and they're being attacked? well, that's happening in georgetown, south, everywhere and in my class after october and brutality that we saw this

all came in the gaza and the brutality it was evil on october seven and evil what's happening in in my classes i have progressive jewish women in palestine. the women in my classes. and so we we had time to to listen to each other and, talk with each other and trust each other and their deep sorrows on both sides that aren't connected and deep truths that aren't connected. so how do we stand up for those are suffering, particularly women and children, those who have nothing to do with with the violence being committed, how do we how do we change our minds? and then change policy? we have to change policy in the and we can't support we can't pay for those big bombs that are killing children. can't do that. so how do we find our way back

and stand for the values that we say we we we believe in shoulder are equally valid. palestinian or jewish equal. you values how do we stand for that and make people know what we think? and we've got to change policies that are decades in the making have been for decades. how do we change how do how two peoples live in in palestine how do we how do we get behind that and support the only way to find security is to find security. all sides, all those people, all children. and that's why we have to protest for and fight for. and you mentioned that in the book you cite matthew verse nine blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called children of god. i don't think anywhere in the bible. it said, blessed to be the war. but correct me if i'm wrong, i went to jesuit school.

you're the reverend. yeah, well, i'm glad you keep by these texts, because the heart of the book is, for me, what jesus doesn't. but i've done this with some these conversations. jesus said, blessed are the peace lovers, right? no, no. oh, okay. blessed are the peace keepers. i said, no. well, we all love peace. we say, and we all want to keep the little, you know, peace keeping, which just supports an unjust goes, quote lesson are the peace makers in any gives them that designation for you be called the children of which is extraordinary. no peacemakers is confirm result that's what it means so a whole young people are going into conflict resolution as a vocation career. it's an art and a science. we need peacekeepers right now in this season, in the most time that i've ever seen my life and

people on the world, i know on both sides. so it's never so poor so that text we have a whole discussion of that in the false way is about what it means to be peacemakers right now in the middle all this. and if we are peacemakers, jesus says wonderfully, will be called the children of god. i have five more minutes and i'm going to be as ambitious as i can and try to get in a couple of questions. i'm going to do a nerdy a nerdy religious question for you and to you unpack it, because speaking about texts in your book, you also cite. matthew 2531 and jesus says that to the people will be divided into two groups and they'll be judged the sheep's and the goats, the sheep will be welcomed and praised for serving those in need in 2024. reverend in america who are the sheep? who are the goats? well, jesus makes clear in that

text was my conversion text. the young student back to christ because i left it, left the kicked out of my little church and 15 because hear jesus saying i call it that it was me text. i was hungry i was thirsty, i was naked, i was sick, i was a stranger. i was in prison. and all the people thought they were his followers. or when do we see we know that was you. we would have at least formed a social action committee in our churches. but that text goes to the heart of things. jesus econo mix in that text turns politics upside down, and that's what i want to see. so we've taken that text to capitol hill to fight for a child tax credit, which is invalid right now. we're in battle for that, which would end child poverty reduce it more than anything else it has during after the pandemic. so i to bring this text right to the streets to policy.

and i think that text really says in the biblical also rulers and princes are judged not for their gross product or their military firepower, but how the poor and vulnerable are doing in their midst. that's test and that's what we have to by. so you're saying that billionaires should get more tax cuts, so that's is that what you're saying? i think that's what you're saying. right. tax cuts for more billionaires and more and more profits. tax cuts, more billionaires whose the policy that donald trump wants again and many colleagues do and no child tax credit for poor families and kids this is completely it's hypocrisy it's also so tax credits for the rich and for the poor when these child tax credits and we're across the board have faith leaders called the circle of protection and we're rolling catholic bishops.

the national association of evangelicals, all of us different different histories. but we're for a child tax credit because it's a right and it's it's consistent with matthew 25. and, you know, when that child tax credit passed, it just did a amazing job to reduce poverty in the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, which is the united states. 6%, almost half cut child poverty by almost half. and now we didn't provide it, didn't renew it. and have to. we have to. we must. it's a faith issue for me and know it should be an issue of decency and. morality for most in the final 3 minutes that i have with you, you we talk about children right now and in this book, you said you wrote it for the next generation you've lived a wonderful life, an eventful. and with your life, service and activism and social justice, in the final 3 minutes that we have, what advice, would you give this young generation the best advice that you have learned from your experiences? and what is a regret, a that you

made that you don't want them to repeat so they can be even more successful in this pursuit of justice and peace? that's a great question. i, i teach at georgetown because the vocation of my and i serve the difference career and vocation careers, you know, your assets, your gpa, your rising of the letter was sent. vocation is is it's your gifts. what's don't what do you feel deeply about? what's the good stuff what are you really good at that what you're really good at and the crying needs the world come to education so we with all of that so i tell them this book is dedicated to my son luke my son jack luke's new wife that's here and my students who i think are

going to significantly change these things that we're taught we have to win this battle. but think this generation can change things. and my my advice to is don't give to cynicism. it doesn't what we do. it doesn't if we vote because powers that be few cynicism and skepticism because it makes people withdraw so as don't try to engage this system has be transformed. absolutely which you go to see with democracy to transform. and so i have learned over the years when i have or my students have or activists have become cynical become cynical. we play the hands of the status quo. so we can't let that happen. and so one of my students, when came to class, tyree, had just been killed the day before, a young black man and. she was a i feel so jaded.

it keeps happening. always shootings and the systems are so corrupt and and i said yeah but do you want to be known the jaded generation which is oh no no hope that's not okay let's fix this talk. let's fix this stuff and your generation are the ones who can do. i appreciate work. i appreciate your service. i appreciate your attempts to make and jesus a of a voice, a of peace and justice and. i appreciate this book, the false white gospel rejecting christian nationalism reclaim my true faith and re founding democracy. new york times best selling author reverend jim wallis. it was a pleasure indeed a