you live here, or right here, or we are in the middle of anywhere, you should have access to fast reliable internet. that's what we are leading the way to take you to 10g. >> tranone supports c-span is a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> five of the six republican candidates running in indiana is 2024 governor's race took part in the final primary debate. they were asked about fincens for entrepreneurs, the limited the states income tax, and indiana's abortion ban. senator mike braun who's also a candidate was unable to attend because he was needed in washington, d.c. for a vote on a ukraine a package. he ended up voting against the bill which ultimately passed. this debate is hosted indianapolis by the indianaba debate commission.

>> good evening and welcome to the indiana debate commissions 2024 primary debate for governor. broadcast live from pine hall auditorium on them campus of iupui. this event is the final formal debate of the 2024 primary season. the final opportunity for hoosier voters to hear from the republicans vying to succeed governor eric holcomb who is barred by indiana's constitution from seeking a third consecutive term. of course the winner of the may 7 republican gubernatorial primary will advance to november's generaly election. i am your moderator, jon schwantes is, the host of public media indiana lawmakers program, the states longest-running public affairsli show. this debate is made possible that generosity of our major

underwriters, aarp indiana, the indiana broadcasters association, and the indiana state bar association as well as additional support from the indiana coalition for open government, the indiana league of women voters of indiana, the hoosier state press association foundation, and comcast. the inanna debate commission is dedicated to putting voters first. accordingly, we invited members of the public to submit questions about the issues of greatest concern to them. or than 120 people submitted submitted nearly 200 questions, and that input form the basis of the questions that i will post this evening. none of the questions have been shared with the candidates for their campaign staffs. the order of the candidates introductions in the positions on stage were determined by drawing. enough housekeeping.

now without further delay let's meet the participants. brad chambers of indianapolis, founder and ceo of buckingham companies, real estate investment firm, and former head of the indiana economic development corporation under governor holcomb. suzanne crouch of evansville, indiana 52ndf lieutenant governor and a former state auditor, state representative and county commissioner. eric doden of fort wayne, founding partner of the developing company and ventures, private equity firm and former president of the indiana economic developmenthe corporatn under governor mike pence. curtis hill elkhart, form indiana attorney general and former four term elkhart county prosecutor. and jamie reitenour of indianapolis, a former compliance officer, athletic director and executive secretary who is now a

stay-at-home mother of five. and you will notice that are five lecterns onstage instead of six as we helped u.s. senator mike braun who of course is also seeking the republican nomination for governor was unable to attend the cd. he was called back to washington for an important senate vote on a foreign aid package, so he unfortunately could not join us this evening. the candidates have agreed to a set of rules which includes a prohibition on props and prepared notes. this evenings debate will feature a mix of yes or no questions, answerable by show of hands, and a more traditional set of open-ended questions at various links. and i will not hesitate to cut off candidates who fail to abide by the stated time limits. i will take it a step further. i will try to gently nudge people back on task if they are

addressing a question and sort of stray from the question. i will do it with a smile on my face and with kindness in my heart. we will try to address the matters at hand t the voters cae about most. all right. now, we h have dispensed with al of the housekeeping. i think we need to do tonight. let's get to the questions. this first round of questions will be open ended. i would give you a time limit for each one. the candidate who received the first question will have one minute to t answer that questio, the other candidates generally will have a shorter time that i will specify,il and you can use that to agree, disagree, or at any of the thoughts that you would like. according to the drawing our first question will got to mr. chambers. he will have one minute to respond. a 202420 study by ford's advisor ranked indiana the second-best state in the nation in which to start a business, citing the states the $100 registration

fee, state funding for small business startups, a high business survival rate, a reasonable cost of living and high percentage of working age residents. what specifically would you do to nudges from number two the number one? beginning of one minute. >> thanks john. thanks for being here tonight, appreciate the audience and this opportunity to speak to voters. listen, entrepreneurship is actually important. i am one. a company from nothing in 1984 from sue. i know the journey, , i know a difficult the journey is to start a business, to grow business andss keep the business going for 40 years. i am a career job creator, a career problem solver. while i'm pleased to see indiana is ranked number two for small and medium-size business, there's more to do and i started to do that as a sect of commerce for the state of indiana working from a a dollar a year as an appointed position. we need to make sure more capital is available to

innovators and entrepreneurs. we need to lean into the technology sector. we formed a website called connect for high school students and for college students if you want to learn about ottoman worship we needwe to start earlr with education and educate our high schoolers about the opportunities to work for yourself. we have terrific entrepreneurs currently eli lilly is one of them. i'm sorry, i am speeded are out of time. the kernel would appreciate your ending on him. was given to each of you, you have 30 seconds to again offer a response to much the same question, how quit taken already strong economic set of circumstances here in indiana and take it to the next level? curtis hill. >> the way we taken over strong state to the next level is very simple.ry we get government out of the way. way. we need to cut regulation make sure we rely on to bruise to work, to move forward. we need to provide tax

incentives through lower taxes to make sure the economy is strong and robust. it's really a matter of making sure the government is limited in its capacity to stay in the way of business as it is growing and developing. >> very good. mr. doden, same questions. this is of heart and soul of our indiana main street initiative. the figures we'veia ignored our small towns and the two ethnic people who live there. as we begin to restore communities across the state with help of local leaders in the private sector this will lead to tremendous small-business growth and opportunities. we've onlyy seen this happen in every community we begin to restore and this is why we're excited about what we do with her indiana main street initiative and that's restoring small towns. >> ms. crouch. >> as state representative auditor and lieutenant have played a key role in turning indiana around. i want to continue that by eliminating the state income tax. not only would we put $2000 back in the pockets of average hoosiers but according to national federation of independent businesses, the

income tax is the single most tax that could help if we coulds eliminate it, small business growth. that is what it wantik to do cup put money in your pocket to help small businesses grow and attract people to indiana when we become a no income tax state. >> and ms. reitenour. >> i was asked a summer question the sport in a new group rose asked how to keep the good times rolling? my answer was i been on the ground for two and half years and hoosiers are not tell me the good times are rolling. right now we've got over 100,000 jobs that cannot c be placed. we have small businesses that are looking for employees so what i say is every scene is a graduate in the state of indiana should be doing an apprenticeship before they graduate. we want to make surey our senios our next generation of taking care. that's not easy to do in a stellar education is failing. but indiana business will bring that tond hoosiers. >> are a good. >> will go on to another question and we will return to the order i think i may have inadvertently botched the order which you were before, so --

[inaudible] how do we rebut? we tacked on a rebuttal? >> alltel you what. because i'm a kind gentle person i'm going ton look at you to kep on track, 15 seconds. >> i'm not asking i'm just asking the process by which. i don't have rebuttal right now but in the future i'm sure to have rebuttal. >> night has an ace in the hole. >> very good. >> what you call me or do i raise my hand? >> it's not a classroom but raising of the hand would be good. >> circuit somebody mentioned you were called you out on policy of makeur sure that you giving the time to talk to that. all right. the order has been restored. we will continue no with a question to mr. hill. some businesses have voiced concerns indiana social policies in areas such as abortion lgbtq rights might hurt our convention business and our ability to attract and retain talent needed to grow indiana's economy.

how to respond to these concerns what you have a minute to do that. >> we need under some kind of state we live in. we are a state that is about families. we want to make sure our families are center what we do in the state. economic development and growth is a wonderful opportunityty for us but not at the cost of who we are as hoosiers. we were h the first date to hava firm pro-life position banning abortion. states, this is no when they come into the state that's what to expect. we don't change who we are to be attracted to the outside world. we need to maintain our standards. we need to be the type of state that is welcoming to families, welcoming to businesses and doing the best job we can to move ourur agenda forward. >> we will continue with additional responses from the remainder of the candidates here. 30 seconds apiece. we will go to mr. doden, your

response about social policies and any possible impact it might have on our economic developmen development. >> i've made this clear, i'm hardly pro-life. what people looking for a leader of conviction and on pro-life, i think it's a human rights issue, also a religious issue but also doing things like zero cost adoption have an adoption fund that will help parents that would pay for adoption but the aftercare these are policies, if you look at our policies you should look at our website. we have them all in writing and of alleo been approved by people like you could use policies that one can agree with and get behind. >> ms. crouch. >> we are a culturally conservative state one of the things that to do a better job of is telling the authentic story of indiana. i had at the indiana destination to public corporation while our neighboring states has been anywhere from 26 windows you're telling their story. we have stoically spent 2 million. we now have additional resources to tell that authentic story of

indiana. >> ms. reitenour. >> indiana is a concern party is that a porch of a type of the rally were in a moral crisis in our country right now. we need to support our families. we all know that the reason why we are where we are right now is because there is a crisis in the family, the family is broken. the state of indiana is for life. we believe that you reap what you sow, so we want to be a state that encourages out in always. it's not just from the womb to the tomb. it's an education with our children. it's in a small businesses. we are a state the stand for life and we are very proud to be that. >> and mr. chambers. >> i believe to keep families at the center of our everyday lives. i believe we need to keep education at the center of our everyday lives. i believe we need to continue to build quality of life for all visitors, kids and grandkids to build allies in indiana and a believe we need to have the economic opportunity for everybody to build their lives in indiana.

and continue to lean into the midwest values and the conservative values of the state. >> very good. our next question goes to mr. doden. as i mentioned in the introduction whened you were, a few months ago, i pointed out that you of course headed the economic development corporation under governor pence. what role with the iebc play and your administration and how to respond to critics who argue that the iebc interferes with free enterprise, that lacks transparency, favors certain regions and essentially is able to pick economic winners and losers? one minute. >> i've been very clear on this, that the iedc should not be spending billions of dollars of taxpayer money buying land in one county and then discover we have a water problem and then taking water and resources from a smaller community to central indiana. this is just inappropriate

behavior. with the igc under leadership was a place that businesses could come from all over the state to get help deal with the bureaucracy of government.er that is t the role the igc will put under my leadership. i do not believe the iedc should be the lead economic of a a corporation should be the indiana economic development corporation and that is the kind of focus work would have with the iedc. but we still need businesses need help all over the state. people calls all the time and say i have a difficult time getting a permit, having a difficult time getting thisti information. that is the proper function of the iedc and the thrill will play under my leadership. >> very good. ms. crouch. >> as, i will flip the script on economic development. we will and power on local and regional economic development organizationsga so we can have o collaboration and partnership. that's how we're our economy but also a limiting the state income tax puts money in hoosiers pockets and helpp small businesses grow.el

attracts workers to indiana. >> ms. reitenour. >> the indiana economic development corporation is not what hoosiers want in the state of indiana. they want to be able to know whether property tax money is going. actually what the what is no property tax. they want to be able to know why we put a wheel of a company in the middle ofmi a desert like situations which would you take $2 billion to get the water to it, which again they do not want this. the indiana economic development corporation also has a regionalc office in china with billion-dollar companies comes diligence of strings. read to be very aware that when his compass come to our state they are also bringing all of their lobbyists and all of the ideology but we need to rebuild indiana. there are many vacant buildings and our state that we can occupy that we do not have to expand your we can rebuild which will save taxpayer money. b >> i'm glad you asked me earlier

about how you get rebuttal topic you may m want to use it. >> we made to get a bigger clock. >> several people here certainly talked about the iedc during your leadership. you oversaw that agency certainly under eric holcomb administration. and, in fact, were in place when the lead project took shape. weigh in on that. couple people have not referred to by name but it's an agency that you oversaw. >> jon, it's a goodfi the contrt between career politics and small thinking. they think it will put more money in hoosiers pockets. under mymo leadership, for a dollar a yearla i step away from life this is a for a dollar a year, we grew the economy by faye to win very dark in two years. those a highway jobs. wages in indiana for low euros average is unacceptable to me. we would have been sold that bring $1 billion for high wage jobs transforming communities from kokomo to saint joe county to alpine county.

so to say it doesn't have a role, we competing against ohio, china and north calendar. we're either going to win or not win but they will take those jobs if we don't want them indiana to give her kids and grandkids here. to keep the kids were graduating from purdue. to have time next two to yos sitting in seoul, south korea, with a comical ask a high necks. weeks ago i'm celebrating a $4 billion investment with high wage jobs in the semiconductor industry that was sponsored in the chips act and senator braun vetoed. i didn't support. if you listen to senator braun we wouldn't have had $4 billion investment with high wage jobs. we need a plan to win or will not in this state. >> all right. mr. hill. >> the big problem here is -- [applause] >> thank you. [laughing] >> that they probably here is that the iedc is a shadow government. were talking about kwanzaa agency. what does cause i mean course

were taking public money and putting it into an organization that hidesn the ball, lack of transparency. all these wonderful things brad talks about, that's fine if you're playing aboveboard and play with an open deck. under my administration we will rein them in a sure they're providing the resources across the board and in balance with the rest of the state. so in a picky when it and losers. this is a prime example of a a state gone wrong. >> i see we had some interested parties down there who want to weigh in on this. let's take, ra, we're going to deviate from the script. 15 seconds for each of you who wants to address this. we will start out the end. >> i was just noting brad didn't mention boone county republican would be the t county that is having all of the water taken from that. there. i actually met the man that was from the boone county and he came up to me and he said to me this is not our indiana anymore. so i would like to know if brad

can address inrs many hoosiers enlisted the don't feel like state of indiana anymore? because they're not about the billions of dollars. >> all right. ms. crouch, , did you want to wait. >> was as a former county commissionla have to have collaboration and visit with the boone county tippecanoe county commissioner there's nothing that collaboration between the state and local governments. that's absolutely critical. that's what one empowers local economic development organizations to have that true partnership. >> all right. mr. doden go ahead. >> again i think>> we need to he a 92 county strategy in which every community has an opportunity to bee successful ad where we recognize that small business and start its drive our economy. we all enjoy and appreciate the large investments that were made but small businesses drive our economy. >> mr. hill, can you get more applause this time with just a introduction? >> i think i can pick i think again. i'm kind of concern the lieutenant governor is suggesting the needs to be something done about the

economic development corporation. corporation. that's part of her administration. we have two people here on stage that are actually part of the problem. we need to be able to fix the problem i bringing transparency in the process. [applause] >> what were going to do, you got after this time. wait a minute, wait a minute. here's what were going to do. were going to stick with your order. were going to get mr. chambers his time c to respond, as thosef you who have been, we can't spend whole time on this question although certainly it is a point of contention. literacy will be go with this. please, take it away. >> i'm going to need more than 15 seconds i'm just telling you. listen, the fact that he defines tens of thousands of high wage jobs come indiana as a problem tells you that he's not the right leader for indiana. we need to grow our economy. to grow our economy and put more money in peoples pockets to fix education, to support a police and firefighters and respa 12. water, there's an

abundance of water in the state but the career politicians like suzanne crouch didn't take the time i didn't have the interest in studying it and know that it's an asset that we can use strategically against our competitors like ohio and michigan and illinois. so we have an abundance of water. it's the transportation issue. bring in outside investment to pay forn that, not taxpayers are all right, all right. two of you decided i will get you, hold on. ms. crouch, two people suggested you are a career politician and mr. hill suggested as part of the administration you should have been more vocal perhaps as it related to your concerns now articulated about speed is i've had my service as a public servant. i have voted for the largest property tax cut in our state's history.y. i pushed for broadband expansion, stood up for familiep that were being victimized by ssa.a. ended up staying for people

struggle with mental ills and addictionll i'm proud of my service, mr. chambers. certainly mr. hill. >> this is getting good. [laughing] ms. reitenour. finish us off on this question is for sure, but she finishes off. here's the bottom line. in case you did not know there are many hoosiers in the state of indiana that s are losing thr land because theng iedc came in and courted them for pricing that was way above the value of the land which makes it hard for people to compete for the land here in the state of indiana. his what's important the first of all i would love to get on the record were almost 10,000 jobs are. we are 100,000 jobs need to be filled in the state of indiana. we need to rebuild and not expand with billion-dollar companies that bring girls in dollar strings. [applause] >> all right. tell you what, it's arresting a been around indiana and politics for a long time i never i understood republicans are summed over economicti development. back in the days, it's

interesting. let's not leave -- let's compromise. we will not leave economic development entirely that we will give our vocal cords all a bit of a and use our hands with raising of the hands to show disappeared in 2022 congress passed the chips and science act. this law which of course was co-authored by indiana senator todd young, co-authored with chuck schumer, authorize $280 billion in new funding for domestic researchti and manufacturing in the high-tech sector. senator braun who again is not with us this evening voted against that measure. obviously as co-author, , dodge and supported it. a show of hands, common of you think that mike braun took the right vote on that issue? the chips act. you agree it was a flawed bill and would you voted the way that contact senator young did?

just show me your hands. >> i support senator young. >> i missed you byy suggesting braun and a switch -- let's call all right, yes. all right. [laughing] all right. let's make this easier. let's make this easier. had you been in the senate, would you voted yes or no all you who voted for the chips act raise your hand. so we have for those listening we have mr. chambers, mr. doden. those who would voted against it with ms. reitenour and we have mr. hill, ms. crouch. did you regime one way or the other? >> you know, i would vote against based upon what i know. i i was talking a hypothetical questions. not sure that's what we're here to discuss. >> well, there's not much hypothetical about the notion of plants that are opening in the high-tech sector which many states across the country are

benefiting. no, when i could have questions at this point, sorry. no. i asked the question, sorry. remember i said. i would be kind andd gentle, don't push me. [laughing] let's get back at the risk of bristol in some sanity and some semblance of timing to the open ended questions which begin our order t goes back to ms. crouch. indiana currently has one of the nclowest income tax rates in the country among states that actually charge and income tax and soon will have the lowest rate in then. nation. yet you wish to eliminate the income tax entirely as you pointed out in your opening statement. is it realistic to think you can take with $8 billion which is more than a third of indiana's tax revenue without hurting services and programs that you said you care about deeply such as caregiver pay for hoosiers with disabled family members? you have one minute to answer. >> i'm going to lead the fight to limit this to income tax.

hoosiers afflicted into the high cost of living. we canli put thousands of dollas back into the pockets every year. now my opponent will scream bloody murder and say we can't dodo it. that money is yours, not theirs and you always a spend more wisy than the government. and so it has to be based in, it can't happen overnight. we have temp triggers in place to protect against economic downturns but as former vice chair of house ways and means committee a former auditor of we can absolutely do it. we do it by limiting government growth. we do it by ending wasteful government spending. and we do it by finding efficiencies in government. when we do we give you money back which you will put into the economy which grows our revenues. we endev up on on the small businesses to grow andnd prosper and then we attract people to indiana and today where are they moving to? tennessee, texas, florida, south dakota no income tax states provided with the gdp and the population is going at great

rates and indiana. we need to be competitive. >> all right. ms. reitenour. >> i will start by saying whatever i was included in the debates that wasn't my voice that there were including. it was the hoosier voice. hoosiers want a true conversation about property tax in the state. and the reason is because property tax have been raised for many, over 40%. we were having conversation we need to have the conversations at the hoosier dining room table. right now when we about income tax, what we are most concerned about is the saving. because for the every day voter they hear that the coin happen. we are looking to look at property taxes and we think we could have a real conversation on the ground with our local offices on may 8 when you like me to be a republican governor in the primary. .. ne. she is not articulate a plan to cut $12 billion out of our

budget, number one per she tweeted two weeks ago vote for me with the last time you pay income taxes. that is inconsistent with the spacing and concept just got per she is not told us how much is going up the cut from education or public safety or police or anything else in healthcare or quality-of-life of initiatives but i go >> go around the state and not a hoosier that i met believes this is doable. very good. mr. hill. >> well, the income tax proposal is a gimmick, it's not realistic, but what we can offer are solutions to our tax situation. we've got the mike braun gas tax. the biggest tax that we put in indiana state's history and not the only big tax, the cares act is the largest tax increase in the history of mankind, $4 trillion and he's responsible for that as well. we need a comprehensive approach what we look at for reducing taxes and providing a fair process for taxation in

this state. >> mr. doden? >> right now the general assembly is studying how we can properly reduce in a responsible way the income tax, but the most important thing i hear from voters all over the state of indiana for our seniors is property taxes and the seniors are at risk of losing their homes because of the rising costs of property taxes and that's wrong. we're proposing freezing private-public taxes for seniors and reduce the rate of growth and work with the general assembly and that's what we're going to focus on. >> all right. since you have been the-- the suggestion is you've unleashed a gimmick on hoosier voters, let's give you 15 minutes to talk about those. >> i'm talking about a tax cut, not a tax replacement. if my opponents understood the legislative process, it can end for certain hoosiers, in addition to that we have to understand that it's not going

to happen overnight and by the way, phasing it in, 3.4%, today we are at 3.1% and let's keep going when we have excess surplus in revenues. put it towards the income tax, we can do that for hoosiers, attracting people to indianament i'm not here to represent mike braun, but i will say i've heard enough of his talking point in the debate and cares act, every members of coping voted for that and-- >> a follower, not a leader. but good company and he would point out on the notion of the gas tax, it was important to keep the crossroads of america in terms of-- for not speaking for mike braun, you're doing a pretty good job of it. [applause] >> earned applause, that's good. all right. let's -- before, and this goes

to you, ms. reitenour. before we leave the subject of taxes, many voters submitted questions to the debate commission asking about rising property taxes, one, a resident of brownsburg asks, considering the way house values have skyrocketed over the last few years and the resulting increases in property taxes, what are you going to do to protect home owners? and you'll have a minute. >> so, this is a really difficult question and the reason for that is whenever you're talking about taxes, you need to have that conversation, not just at the state level, but at the local level. on may 8th, my intention is to go to all 92 counties to talk to the county commissioners and to have a real conversation about lowering your property taxes. what we know is that right now, there are a lot of referendums that are coming from the schools. we love our schools. we want to support our teachers. we want our teachers to get paid well, but we're growing and expanding our schools at a

rate that's not able to be kept up by the property tax owner. this is very concerning in the state of indiana, $37,000 median income, 68,000 per household. we think that's probably over the actual numbers. what we need to do, we need to have a conversation at the county level, which i'm going to do. this is not a gimmick and exhort you to think about who is running for governor and what you're doing with your money because somebody lost a billion dollar and-- >> and i believe property taxes need to be addressed i would look at assessments, different from county to county. people don't understand them. to clarify and simplify the assessment process and make them uniform across the state to the extent we can do that and consistent understanding for people and create some opportunities for seniors not to get kicked out of their

house. listen, suzanne crouch and mike braun in 15 years of combined service raised taxes 50 times and she has-- she's not credible on cutting taxes with specifically seven times cutting taxes in her term as legislature, in the legislature. so, property taxes need to be focused on. i have a plan for it and it is a priority. 15 years into 15 seconds. let's try to stick to that. mr. hill. >> for me? >> yes, go ahead, 30 seconds. >> property taxes is a concern for a lot of people. and so are income tax and sales tax, we need a comprehensive approach, this is not a gimmick or a quick fix. we need a long-term plan for how to move forward. the problem is with the assessed values, and every committee it's different. we need a strategy where the state works with the locals to come up with a good program we can manage our property taxes in an efficient, fairway,

particularly pertaining to young people and seniors. >> mr. doden, what are you doing about property taxes? >> that's exactly the foundation of our plan. what we've seen is growth of property taxes by 15% a year, in some cases multiple years in a row and that's very hard to plan for if you're on a fixed income. that's why we're proposing that we freeze it for seniors and we'd also basically the growth would only be allowed to be about 5% a year under our plan, which makes it easier for people in their budget of the plan. that's the foundation of our plan for how we help people with property tax issues that are raging across the state. >> and ms. crouch. >> as the state representative, i voted for the largest property tax cut in our state's history. i'm open to that. my opponents are entitled to their own opinions, but not entitled to their own facts. as a state representative, i cut taxes a dozen times and that's why i want to continue to cut taxes and eliminate the state income tax and putting money in your pockets and

helping it to grow and attracting people to indiana. >> we are going to give those arms another chance to flex. not to the point that you need tommy johns surgery or anything, but we'll see if we can again, rest the vocal cords and maybe go with rapid fire questions, if we want to call them that. and we are going to-- these all deal, the next section with election integrity which has certainly been a persist tennant issue nationwide and in recent years we've seen that come to the fore many times and the candidate who is likely to be at the top of hoosiers ballots on the republican side, donald trump has weighed in on what he sees as the lack of election integrity. >> raise your hands if you're confident in indiana's election. all right, we have mr. chambers, mr. hill, mr. doden, ms. crouch, are all confident in the integrity of our elections, leaving

ms. reitenour. that's one way to get 15 seconds. go for it. why are you -- [applause] >> why are you not confident in our election integrity. >> well, i'll tell you, in order for me to be confident in our election integrity, i really want to see more involving voters and i can tell you that it is the hardest thing in the world to get on the ballot, getting the signatures is very difficult to do. i can also tell you that all arn the state, many people don't know that it's time to vote right now. i think our secretary of state was actually out of the country, so, i just think it's wise for us to be paying attention to how much attention is going on in the voting process before we give it a rating. >> let's try one more. a significant number of republicans in indiana certainly and elsewhere agree with president trump's claim that the 2020 election was stolen. raise your hand if you agree that the election was stolen? >> that question cannot be-- >> that's totally. >> that's not a yes or no

question. >> that's funny because i asked it as a yes and no question. >> it involves facts. >> let me ask you, is joe biden the duly elected president of the united states? anybody disagree. >> very good. >> wait, i want to make a statement, i think that's an unfair question, let's be clear what happened in the 2020 election that everyone should agree on, it wasn't properly adjudicated they should have spent more time investigating that election and it was not investigated. >> next question. >> that's an unfair question. [applause] >> i think we know where-- no, no, listen. all right. >> anomalies in that election and to 2:00 in the morning with president trump winning and woke up in the morning and he was losing. there are anomalies we can't understand and we don't know about. >> for a question that's impossible to answer, you just answered it. so, next-- well, you did. raise your hand if you

recognize the results of the november election for president regardless of the outcome. raise your hand if you'll recognize the outcome of the presidential election in november. >> we're not going to-- you're asking us to say something that hasn't happened yet. we plan on governing the state of indiana, we would like to base that on facts. [applause]. >> well -- i'm just saying that's a departure from convention, oftentimes those seeking the highest office in the state of indiana who do subscribe to the notion that our elections are sound and a pillar of democracy would commit to agreeing with the outcome of the presidential election. >> what we're saying there's no way for us to know what happens between now and then. for us to go out and say a country that's sought after by many places in the world we could be under kind of a-- >> let's try one more. let's try this one. >> all right. we're going to try this one. >> in indiana-- >> we can't speak to wisconsin,

michigan, illinois what's going on in those states. >> let's try this one, this one you can address, i think. senator braun, again, who is not here this evening received donald trump's endorsement for governor. how many of you would have welcomed president trump's endorsement? >> why wouldn't we? maybe that's a better question. >> i'm not here whether you should or shouldn't. i'm asking you the question-- >> it seems like you're trying to set us up and cause division in our party and we don't appreciate it. >> ms. reitenour, ms. reitenour, i think the party is doing quite capably on its own in creating some division. >> we're focused on the people of indiana. >> we're going to move on to the next open-ended question, to mr. hill. i do appreciate the vigor, by the way. u.s. supreme court heard oral arguments this week in a case that could decide whether government can criminalize homelessness. do you support laws ticketing or arresting people who sleep

outdoors in public spaces? i'll give you a minute to respond to that mr. hill. >> i support communities having laws that prohibit camping and participating in the public in areas of housing. i think if communities can move homelessness, and homelessness is an issue not about homelessness, housing, than it is about mental illness and drug addiction. so we need to be able to provide shelters for people who require shelters and make sure that we remove dangerous situations from our streets. and people living in the streets is bad for them, it's bad for the rest of us, and i support communities being able to eradicate that process with compassion, but doing so in a manner that keeps us safe and clean and our communities open. [applause] >> all right. mr. doden, before you do, let me just say, i appreciate your enthusiasm for the various candidates, but it takes away from the time that we have for the questions. so, please be mindful of that.

mr. doden. >> this is at the heart of our capitol zone proposal where we wanted to have people feel safe and be safe in our downtown indianapolis where we've invested a lot of money as taxpayers. we want to make sure we have resources to help people overcome addiction to be restored to their families and community. we are going to work with the private sector and local 501 c-3's to help people overcome addiction, and that's what i'll do as part of governor of indiana. >> and should the people be arrested or ticketed? >> i'm the only candidate who says it will be a top priority for me. 20% increase in anxiety and depression among our population since covid, but 60% increase among young people. they are the future of indiana. suicide is the second leading cause of death among young people and many of our homeless, i would dare say,

many of our homeless deal with, and that's what we should be addressing. >> ms. reitenour. >> indiana, you're a good state and recognize what's taking place, in our state are we care about our military veterans who are oftentimes homeless and believe in law and order and there's definitely a candidate missing that did not support the police, but i support the police and law and order and for our homeless issues we definitely want to be those going and working with already organizations all over our state that are caring for people in that state of mind and i also don't believe that the government should be involved in the mental illness conversation and i think you should be asking yourselves if the government did what they did to you during covid what exactly are you going to be doing with people that have mental illness? [applause] >> all right, mr. chambers? >> i seem to be the only candidate talking about

economic opportunity and growing our economy and lifting people up through higher wages and full employment. i think that's where a lot of the mental illness starts is lack of economic opportunity. number one, our protected plan, policy that we rolled out on public safety bringing back behavior health centers because our police officers, our firefighters are our mental health professionals today. they didn't sign up for that. we closed facilities 30 years ago and we need to re-fund, and repeat and violent offenders, not ticketing homeless people. let's get the repeat offenders off the streets and deal with our bail system. >> thank you all. and i would ask you to refrain from applause. you can cover them with hugs and kisses and pep rallies when this is over. why are test scores stagnating in indiana, what changes would you make? one minute, please.

>> we have a constitutional obligation and moral obligation to educate our kids. give parents choice. we had different kids in our family that had different needs ap that's why i'm a big fan of vouchers and competition. even our public school administrators will tell me behind closed doors that this has helped make them better, but we also have a teacher investment program and we are going to invest in our teachers. we have a teacher crisis, especially in our small town and it goes right to the teachers, and the income backs, it's a pay raise for the average teacher and fund early childhood education and we have good fiscal management and put a stake in the ground and said it's inappropriate for us to allow or think about that we get people to the third grade, and kids in the third grade that can't read. let's make sure to invest in the future of our kids, one of the most important things that we can do. >> ms. crouch. >> i want to create a lifetime

education system focused on four r's, reading, writing, arithmetic and reasoning. we'll teach our children how to think not what to think and i want to take the five agencies that deal with education work force and training and put them into one where now, everyone is on the same page and same software system and focused making sure our children are prepared for the next step in graduation. whether it's enlistment, enrollment or apprenticeship. >> ms. reitenour. >> in indiana there's an educational crisis in the state nobody has been talking about it the last two and a half years, but i have. page miller, 30 years experience in the classroom and masters in administration. k through 5 we're going to restore academics unlike what was said on stage. a heavy focus on crt and scl that is taking up time. and we want to bring back trade

back and talk about technology and ai is affecting their professions. we're ready to step up and become the training capital of the united states of america, that's who hoosiers are, that's indiana goodness. >> mr. chambers. >> this is our biggest challenge and our biggest opportunity. our educational system is backwards looking and needs to be pointed forward in the modern economy, teaching kids to be ready for a modern economy. 20% of our kids can't read, third to fourth grade. that's unacceptable, 65% of our case can't pass an i learn math test preparing for sixth grade. and we need to make education individualized to the kid. kid learn differently than 20 years ago, 30 years ago. make sure that the educational system is parent centered and we need to get more money to teachers and less to building's administrative cost. >> mr. hill. >> we need to have an education

system free of federal entanglements and when the options are some of the failing schools in indiana. we need to go back to the basics, reading, write, arithmetic, add civics and high education standings moving forward. my wife is a teacher and my five children are from public education. we need parental responsibility as well as parental rights, partnership with teachers. >> if i may follow up. and the word entanglements, you've use that had word, would you not take federal fund sng. >> i would urge local schools to quit taking the federal dollars tied with federal programs, et cetera. the federal government acts like a crack dealer, dangle money in front of you and you have to ride the programs. i asked the superintendent how much of your budget is federal dollars and he said 7%.

how much of what you do is pertaining to maintaining or tracking that 7% over 50% of what they do is tied to those federal dollars. if we get rid of the federal dollars, local schools have the ability to direct their own ability moving forward with their own educational programs. >> anybody else think that the federal government's an educational crack dealer? ms. reitenour? >> yes, the federal government, department of education is constantly dipping its hands into the state and we're obligated to do whatever they're asking us to do, in this case, programs like crt and scl. and everyone on stage who has worked currently with the current administration is complaining about our scores. they were focused on the iedc while our children was failing in school. that's unacceptable. >> anybody else weigh in on education. ms. crouch. >> i don't think that we should take federal money contraire toy who we are as hoosiers. as government i'll make sure my

department of education and superintendent of public instruction does not take that kind of money that has the strings attached that puts us in a direction different from our values and what we believe? >> anybody else want to weigh in in fairness. the next question for ms. crouch. as you pointed out you've served in the executive and legislative branches and certainly held offices at the county level as well and you've headed several agencies in your role as lt. governor. at the same time you said there's room to make government more' fisht efficient. can you name one agency, you would eliminate or down size. >> just about all of them. elimination or downsizing? >> both. one of the things we want to do-- >> won't be governor over much if you do all of them. >> want to totally modernize state government. take our hundred boards and agencies and commissions and get them to a manageable said. but we want to remove rules and

regulation that add to the cost of doing business and don't make sense. in addition to that, we want to have outside independent audits to determine how we can do a better job and more cost effectively and efficiently. we'll realize cost savings that then we can put toward new programs. we aren't the only state doing this. iowa is doing this and they have projected with their reorganization of their state government, they will realize $215 million of savings over four years. we are five times the size of iowa. so, yes, we modernize, we totally reorganize, we will realize cost savings that then can be put towards new programs and new services for hoosiers and give your money back. >> ms. reitenour. >> one of the programs that-- one of the departments that we would be decentralizing is the department of equity and inclusion, ei. what we would like to do, we'd like to decentralize that and put that in our small towns all

over the state of indiana that really want to be included and we would like to change then that name to a better citizen bus we want to have a focus in our state on our constitution and how the many immigrants that have come here lawfully need to be studying that constitution not to mention those here that are not legal which we should also probably talk about at some point in time, but we definitely want to be those that are shrinking government not expanding government. again, hoosiers if you want a politician, there are those to the left on the stage, but i'm asking you for your votes. >> mr. chambers anything you'd want to down size. >> john, i've been building a company and reshaping it and addressing the challenges of a marketplace. suzanne crouch ran the housing agency and hasn't done a thing. it hasn't produced more housing or efficiency. she talks about things that are

going to do, but hasn't done things on other plate and portfolio right now. we need to run this like a business to shrink regulations out of people's lives. that's going to take someone from business, not legislation to do that. >> and mr. hill, agencies you'd like to down side. i appreciate jamie's decentralization of dei, i'm going to get rid of it on day one. we need to remove diversity equity and inclusion. equity is a wonderful thing, but not at the cost of fairness, along with that, a good look at the indiana education. 250 staffers making a lot of money at departmentof education, you've got third graders that can't read. how about cutting that in half, and starting with that as one example. >> mr. doden any agencies you see fit to pare back or

eliminate? >> yes, i've talked about this over the last three years, one of the most important thing a governor does, the agency heads that spend 22 billion in state money and 22 billion in money. and we have been collecting talent and names people willing to come in and serve. our experts suggest there's 16% of waste that we can get out of the system and that's the focus of my administration, bringing the most talented people to bear to make sure that these agencies serve the people of indiana. >> ms. crouch, the suggestion was that you didn't do enough to create ample affordable housing. >> as a lieutenant government i have more responsibilities and duties than any other lt. governor in the country. i'm secretary of agriculture and road development, head up the office of community and rural affairs. indiana destination,

development corporation, all of those agencies focused how to make indiana grow, thousand to create more housing units, particularly for those that are vulnerable, disabilities, i stand on my record to be able to help hoosiers and we'll continue to do that when we eliminate the state income tax and focus on those dealing with mental illness and addiction. >> i want to point out to hoosiers this is the debate we're talking about a conversation about socialism. it doesn't look like that. we have to decide in the state of indiana are we conservatives or are we not conservatives. if we're conservatives we believe in less government not all of these departments expanding and expanding, to solve more and more problems in our communities. we actually believe the private sector should step in and solve the problems, not the

government. and when you have less people that believe the government is the answer, you get big government and more taxes. >> we're about to hit the hour mark and we'll be bidding farewell to some of our broadcast partners. >> and on housing anybody want to weigh in on that? by the time i look at you and my 15 seconds will be up. all right. well, what we'll do is this. we are going to pause for a moment, as i said, to wish some of our broadcast audience farewell, as some of the tv and radio stations move on to other programming. the final 30 minute, don't go anywhere, the final 30 minutes of the indiana debate commission's g.o.p. gubernatorial primary debate can be found online at media outlets across the state or indiana commission.com. a recording of the full debate

will also be available shortly after this is finished and we'd also like to take this moment to thank our supporters. >> broadcasters association, the indiana state bar association, aarp, and the following. all right. back where we left off with another question, open-ended question, one minute response if you would like to take it. this goes to ms. reitenour. indiana has an abortion law that bans most abortions from day one of pregnancy and only allows termination up to 10 weeks in the cases of rape or incest, up to 20 weeks in the case of fetal anomaly or in cases where the pregnant individual's physical health or

life is at risk. do you support current statute in indiana or does the ban go too far or not far enough in your mind? one minute. >> i'm for life. the reason i'm for life because i believe in the creator of life. aalso believe in a concept i know is one that you know, you reap what you sow. if you sow life, you'll reap life. right now in the state of indiana we have put exceptions when it comes to abortion and i'm not talking about the exceptions that are made, which really aren't exceptions they're more medical decisions between two patients, the mother and baby. i'm not talking about those scenarios, but made exceptions if you look and see how many abortions took place in 2023 ap gestation age you'll see it's higher than prior yearsment we need to be a state that says we're for life because we're in a conversation right now in our

country about how our future is going to end up. and if we want to be a country that is for goodness, we need to be a country that supports life from the very beginning, all the way until the end. and so, i am a candidate, a governor candidate that is more than willing and oh, so ready to have that conversation with jennifer mccormick. i know that she's been courting governor candidates to do that we'll have that conversation after may 7th. >> all right. mr. chambers, is the law currently in indiana where you think it should be in your view or stringent or-- i'm pro-life. what i hear from hoosiers going around the state is about property taxes, i hear about quality of life issues, education and health care issues. in creating the economy to lift people up to grow families and that's what my focus would be. >> mr. hill. >> well, i brought over 2,000 babies aborted in illinois to

be buried in indiana and our statutes are fine terminated pregnancy reports are not filed by the health department and the current governor and administration are not supporting that. as governor i would direct the health department to feel for termination of pregnancy reports to make sure that we can enforce our abortion ban. it's not good to us if you can't enforce it, that's what's happening currently. >> ms. crouch. >> oh i need-- >> excuse me. >> unintentional. >> you need me to speak for eric? >> i'm ardently pro-life, it's a human rights issue and it's a religious issue for me and i think that i was really proud of our general assembly for passing a pro-life law right away, as soon as they could. the law, i think, is settled and that's why we're focused on zero cost adoptions that allows

13,000 kids in foster care to get in loving homes and that allows us to strengthen the family and these are issues that everyone's getting behind. people are excited about. one of the most important thing we can do is strengthen the family and make sure that we have strong families and that's what we're going to focus on. >> now ms. crouch. >> i am pro-life. my record is cheer and i cast the tie breaking vote to strengthen indiana's abortion laws. today indiana is one of the most pro-life states in the country, but it's equally important that we protect and save lives and support those mothers and those babies and that's why i am so proud that we have dedicated $45 million to supporting pregnant women, to supporting mothers and to supporting those children up to two years of age to be able to give them the kind of support that in the indicates that we

protect life in all stages. >> let's stay with this for a moment and maybe address your questions in this one. all five members of the currently indiana supreme court were reported by republican governors. in handing down that court's decision on indiana's abortion law which as you pointed out was one of the first and most stringent in the country. a majority of those members of the court found that article one, section one of indiana's constitution does give women the right to-- in cases of threat to their life and physical well-being, to, in fact, they have a right to abortion. as far as i know that's the first time the court has staked out that particular position. did that court-- do you agree or disagree with that court, let's do with starting of the show of hands and several of you other. did you agree with five members of the supreme court, a majority of whom said that women have this right under

certain circumstances when they're facing death or significant physical harm under article one, section one of the indiana constitution? how many agree with the indiana supreme court? >> it's very difficult because as everybody knows the court opinions are very individual per case. i don't know if that's the case that they're now studying. i have no idea of the specifically person that brought that case forward. i think what we've said, a mom and baby, whenever they are approached in a situation that is difficult for the mom, the mother's life, it's the baby and the mother's life that's at stake there and we would-- i would support the doctor making a decision for both. i don't know really where that puts me with your question. >> well, the question simply was, did the five members of the supreme court or the majority of those get it right. does anybody-- nobody raised a hand and said they thought they got it right, correct? >> and i'm so sorry because this is a big issue on the conservative platform and we don't tend to talk about it

very much which is concerning. scotus, whenever they put their opinion together after roe v. wade, it was a phenomenal opinion, and every conservative should read it, says it needs to go back to the states when roe v. wade was declared back then, it wasn't done in a manner that was fitting and talked about how at the time there was no case precedent and should have looked out at the state at the time roe v. wade-- >> i'm going to have to cut you off. [applause] >> let's stick, at the risk of dwelling on this, this is an important issue you correctly pointed out this is important to conservatives and progressives alike. let's start, this open-ended question related, but unrelated i guess we'll start with mr. chambers then. most of new previous debates indicated support for in vitro fertilization or ivf. how do you recognize your pro-life views, typically to create life with ivf you

generally have to destroy embryos and the process creates embryos that simply aren't going to be used. is that tough to recognize, mr. chambers. >> first and foremost the joy of my life has been my 28-year-old son and i want that joy to be spread to all hoosiers, so i support ivf and want it to be available to as many hoosiers as can possibly be to grow their families. >> let's go right down the line, 30 seconds. >> i believe in the culture of life and along with that culture of life is the opportunity for couples, loving couples to have children who are not able to have children, to be involved in in vitro. and on top of that endorsement of our abortion ban and what i would want to know from all of my opponents, are you willing to accept up to the plate and enforce the tpr's making sure that the health department is providing tpr's so we can enforce abortion? i'd like to know that so far i'm the only candidate that's spoken out that says we will

enforce the terminated pregnancy reports to make sure we can enforce the law. >> mr. doden. >> yeah, we're going to work with the general assembly to protect ivf. we want families to grow and we want strong families, that's an important part of what we're going to do and make sure that all of our agencies report the law and what they're suppose today report in a timely fashion. that's an important part of my administration, and we've made that clear. >> i am pro-life and my records clear. as a woman and a mother, i cannot fathom the pain that a couple or a mother goes through who wants -- a woman goes through who wants so desperately to have a baby and hasn't been able to have it. so, we have to wrap our arms around these women and we have to support them. and support life, and give them the right to be able to bring children into this world. >> all right. ms. reitenour.

>> i'm a firm believer in life and i think everyone should have the opportunity to have life. i also think that it's interesting that we are talking about this specifically, noting that there's a lot of aborted fetuses that are put in vaccines and we haven't talked about that at all and yet, we're in a state that was recommending and really, even people are losing their jobs for not getting those vaccines. i would also just want to point out to answer curtis hill's question, yes, i would absolutely support transparency that we're looking for with these abortion reports and would i further say that we are five candidates that are running for governor in the state of indiana on the conservative ticket and i think it's very fair for us to say to governor holcombe, we are all asking you together to support transparency and get those reports to the people. >> all right. [applause] >> now, those reports traditionally have been under indiana statute as i understand it, because they contain medical information, have been redacted by the department of health. >> the attorney general in the state. i was the attorney general in

the state, they have-- they were not medical records, they're not medical records now, and any information that would identify someone has been taken out of the program so get your facts straight. [applause] >> my facts are merely that the department of health had been redac itting that, so if you have a problem take it up with them. >> and a lafayette resident wants to know would candidates support cracking down on hoosier businesses that employ undocumented immigrants. >> the border is a huge challenge, the biden border i call it and if senator braun wasn't in the basement and we'd talk about his failure to lead on anything, except taking taxpayer funded photo ops at the border. the front door is closed and the back door is flapping wide

over and that's a state problem. would iware out my welcome in d.c. making sure they understand it's putting our guardsmen at risk. senator braun and biden are putting their guardsmen at risk because they're doing nothing about it. we have a fentanyl problem because of a broken border. and hoosiers lives-- and you have them coming into the state because of the failure. it needs to be addressed. the government needs to be strong on this issue and not just send guards down and fund it. we need to advocate for a strong border at a state level. >> mr. hill, would you support cracking down on hoosier businesses that employ undocumented workers? >> it has to be, because senator braun has abdicated that. we need to send for the patrol. i called for the indiana national guard to go down to the state of texas before

governor holcombe put that forward, too. no safe haven for illegal aliens in the state of indiana. we can't have it both ways, we're either going to stop illegal immigration or we're going to lay down for it. i'm not laying down for anybody. [applause] >> mr. doden. >> biden needs to do his job. congress needs to do their job. and as your governor, we are going to wake up every day working hard to embarrass the federal government into better performance. that's what i can tell you we're going to do. in the meantime when they're not doing their job. it's incumbent on us to support our governors, rule of law is the foundation to this country and we simply plus r must follow the rule of law. >> ms. crouch. >> doo you the failed policies of the biden administration we

now have nine million illegals in this countries and last year alone we stopped almost 200 people at the border on the terrorist watch list. every state is a border state, including indiana so as governor i will send national guard down to help protect our southern borders, but i also will protect indiana's borders making sure that we don't get that influx of illegals that bring the deadly fentanyl, that also bring human trafficking, it's absolutely incumbent that we deep indiana strong. that's why in 2011 as a state representative i voted to prohibit sanctuary cities. if they come here, we'll send them to other states. >> ms. reitenour. >> i would say as curtis was saying, there are illegal immigrants that are already here in the state of indiana and so what you have, indiana you have a very intense situation that's taking place because of a lack of leadership and even, you could say, a president that was promoting illegal immigration.

we do need to have a stop of illegal immigration at the border. why any governors would be participating in administrative solution from a logistical standpoint without stopping what's taking place, seems like it wouldn't make any kind of sense, but i would say, i think that the conservative party needs to support everyone lawfully who has come in and a fast track of citizenship all of the immigrants waited lawfully. we need a conservative party that is shining light on that i am immigration. and taking those people and putting them back at the border seems like a logistical nightmare. we need a pause, where they're not citizens, but can get some sort of certificate so they can work in indiana and pay taxes. >> a follow-up question of sorts and probably want to do this with a show of hands initially. the heritage foundation,

conservative think tank this month, proposed that states should charge tuition, essentially, of the undocumented children or the parents, certainly the children of undocumented immigrants who children, who were not born here, essentially public school tuition for grades k through 12. do you think that makes sense, the heritage foundation's proposal. >> they argue that this is a burden in some states more than others in terms of providing this kind of education. where do you all stand? if you agree with the heritage foundation that schools should, in fact, charge tuition of undocumented workers at kindergarten through 12. we've had much more discussion, certainly, as a nation about higher education, but what about-- all right. >> if you would give us more time to answer the questions, we will. i mean, you're really kind of picking these a little bit and these are tough situations.

>> americans are tired of illegal immigrants coming across our border. hoosiers are tired of immigrants coming across the border, seven million the last count so we need to enforce our law and fix our border. our senator needs to do his job which he's not doing. >> i don't -- like she said, i haven't read the heritage-- fair enough. mr. hill. >> i don't know what the question was, but i think what you're getting at-- (laughter) >> no, i'm serious. i think what you're getting at, do we want to have-- do we think that we want to charge illegals to be educated and the answer is no. i don't want to have a system where illegals are able to buy their way into our citizenship, into our freedoms and rights. if you're here illegally there's no price to pay to gain access to what's ours, that's worth protecting. >> anyone else want to weigh in on the question that i wasn't

clear about. should kids be charged tuition? >> what i suggested we should have a way for people to pay taxes and not be citizens. there is a major problem here that the constitution doesn't address because we have a president that was being irresponsible and hurting our nation by leaving the borders open. we need to come to the table with strong governors that can come together with the strength of the states come up with a logistical administrative solution good for all the citizens of the state of indiana and-- >> we're almost to essentially closing statements. but i do want to try the arm thrust one last time. i think we could get this one. mask mandates should be banned in case of another pandemic. if you agree raise your hands. i want today see if the microphone was working. all right, with that we have come to the close essentially of this, the final debate. you'll each have two minutes to

address anything that we left on the table tonight or make your final pitch to hoosier voters, and let's start-- let's make it simple. mr. chambers, go ahead. >> thank you for being here. what a journey. a lot of firsts in the chambers family in the last seven months. i've never done this before, i'm not a politician and i'm certainly not a clear politician. i'm a hoosier. i started a company from nothing 40 years ago and i felt the pains of starting a business for nothing. i worried about payroll and putting food on the table and gas in the car. it was a tough journey, but i'm grateful and because of that, this is a service opportunity for me not a career change. i believe in the potential of the state and i served for a dollar a year. for two years for our economy. to have optimism and urgency to raise wages, to do things that haven't been done, and you know, and we weren't winning in

a way that was leaving people behind. wages matter. being below u.s. average wage matters so we have to play to win because then when you have a growing economy, you can fix education and government can actually shrink because unemployment goes down. medicaid use goes down. so, listen, with faith and courage my wife and i decided to get into this race seven months ago, we believe it's time for a ceo to run it like a business. ways in bedford whoever the weekend saturday night and man came up to me and said i just voted for you. it gave me a shot down my spine, i was humbled by that decision. i'm working hard to earn votes. i'm rolling out policies, meeting hoosiers and listening. that's what ceo's do. we have our senior senator who doesn't show up. he doesn't listen, he mails it in, he expects people to vote for him, i don't. >> i'm honored by a vote and that's what i'm working to do is earn your vote then i'll

work hard to deliver on that effort and make indiana better than it's ever been. thank you, i would appreciate your support on may 7th. [applause] >> mr. hill, your closing thoughts. >> i'm running for governor because hoosiers are hungry for proven conservative leadership, most important word that i've said there is proven leadership. how do you know, how do you know what someone is going to do going forward? based on their history and record what they've done in the past. we're facing assaults on absolute truth, from the manipulation of race, and destroying with-- and don't give a conservative list of talking points and say that's enough prove that you can do the job. and when aborted babies in illinois was found in a garage, i didn't let it go, i believe in the culture of life.

i believe in liberty and freedom when the holcombe administration announced mask mandate in 2020 as your attorney general i put a stop to it. it's about freedom, liberty. ladies and gentlemen, i believe in truth. that's why when the bureau of motor vehicles created a third gender. i put a stop to it as attorney general. why? because the truth is there are only two genders, male and female and that's worth fighting for. we need courage. we need to be, you need to be able to count on the people on the stage, the person on stage to get the job done. my name is curtis hill, i have a record of getting the job done. i would appreciate your report on may 7th. [applause] >> mr. doden. >> i think what's important for leader is to have a bold vision for the people of indiana and the ability to implement that vision and we have more plans in writing than everyone on this stage combined. so what i'd encourage you to do is go to our website and interface with every one of our plans, help us improve them and go through them quickly, we

have a plan to restore small towns for the first time ever in history. never had a plan for two and a half million people who live in smalltown indiana and it's the core of our very culture in indiana and is at the core of business growth and everything that we should be about in this state. we have a plan for each of our regions to be one of the top in the country. and you know, we took fort wayne from not ranked in 2015 and the 30th best place to live according news reports. we can do that all over the place. we have zero cost adoption to get 13,000 foster kids in loving homes. a plan to protect our seniors making sure they do not lose their homes by freezing property taxes. we have a plan to make sure that we grow every single part of our economy in all counties. these are the kinds of things that you should be looking for as i close tonight i'm going to ask you for things. first of all, one observation and i've said this across the

state. fear and faith are income compatible. there's a lot of fear in politics. and god gave power of a sound mind. ask you to roll up your sleeps and it's going to take a team effort from everyone in the room not every one person up here is gifted enough to do it alone. i'm going to ask you to pray for us, safety as we travel. pray for wisdom importantly and pray for a servant's heart. thank you. >> ms. crouch. >> i'm running for governor because i care deeply about indiana and i care deeply about you and the only candidate on the stage that has the experience to be able to deliver results. we want to start by eliminating the state income tax. we are going to ax the tax. we can put money in your pockets. today is costs you $11,400 more

than it did three years ago just to meet basic needs. now, my opponents and i'm the only one saying we're going to elim natal a tax and my opponents say it's a gimmick, we can do it as former auditors stay we can do it. if we limit government growth, end wasteful government spending and find efficiencies in government we can give you money, allow small business to grow and attract people to indiana, but i'm also the only candidate on this stage that has said that helping those that struggle with mental illness and addiction will be a top priority. since covid, 20% increase in anxiety and depression. suicide's second leading cause of death among young people and that's why as governor we'll never have mask mandates or lockdowns because what it's done to all of us, and particularly our children. i'm running for governor because i want to make sure that indiana does not become,

and say, california, new york, a michigan or illinois. i'm running to protect all of our conservative values. as governor i'll make sure that parents control what is taught to our children and stand shoulder to shoulder with police and enforce crime laws to the fullest. ax the tax and within our mean. we're not going to saddle our children and grandchildren with a mountain of debt. and the most vulnerable hoosiers, the unborn, elderly, those struggling with addiction, disabled. we'll never compromise in protecting faith, family, freedom. i am suzanne crouch, i'm running for governor. i ask for your vote on may 7th so we can build a better indiana together. >> and ms. reitenour. >> well, indiana, i would just ask you you feel like any of that is actually happening right now. we live in a state that says

it's a red state and believes in conservative values and yet, i'm trying to figure out where the conservatives are in government. right now, we are having a big issue in our state because we're discussing matters that you and your communities are also discussing. there's a moral crisis and a very big debate about socialism and capitalism. in our state what that looks like, if it looks like billion dollar companies investing in the state. we have 100,000 jobs already available. these billion dollar companies are bringing these high paying jobs, but i ask you for what work force because on their watch, these politicians, our education has failed. there are over 100,000 third through eighth graders that are not able to do basic reading and math. that's a failure. six years ago, i was asked by the lord, i was told that i would be the governor of state of indiana, i know that sounds wild. i waited for four years for that confirmation, i was at

panera, a person came up to me and said i had a love for more than just my family, it was for the people and i should follow that love. and then the next week, i heard a man say to me that i needed to let my past go and need today walk forward in the calling for my future and he said i need today allow the lord to renew my mind that i might accept his pure and acceptable will. way nt you to let you know, indiana, i have done a lot of walking around the state and i saw a hoosier in boone county saying this is now our indiana anymore. if you want billions of dollars in back room business, choose the politicians. if you want someone that loves freedom, that's going to look out for your families and encourage you to grow in the state through the private sector and through the good people that you are, then check out our website at jamie for ingov.com. that's indiana goodness. >> one thing you made clear you don't like my yes or no raise

your hand questions. >> and i'm going to ask the last one, who appreciated the fact that these candidates were willing to engage in a vigorous discussion of the issues to hoosiers, i'll raise my hand and i appreciate you all for doing that and i also, to those who have watched or listen today this evening's debate, i thank you for caring about our state, its governance and collective future on may 7th. on behalf of the indiana debate commission, i thank you and wish you a good night. [inaudible conversations] >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these companies and more, included midco. ♪

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