the biden administration is planning to reclassify marijuana using federal restrictions. julie from nbc news and posted a rule is expected soon on rescheduling the drug for the first time since a controlled substance act was put in place more than 50 years ago. the article goes on to say since 1971 marijuana has been the same category as heroin, methamphetamine and lsd. defined as a drug with no accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. if the rule is a change in cannabis would be studied to identify concrete medical benefits opening the door for pharmaceutical companies to get involved with the sale and distribution of medical marijuana. for the 34 billion-dollar cannabis industry the move would eliminate significant tax burdens for businesse and states where the drug is legal. ♪ c-span is your unfiltered view

of government been funded by these television companies and more including media. >> @media, we believe that whether you live here or at right here, our way out in the middle of anywhere it should have access to fast reliable internet. we are leading the way. many come support c-span as a public service apart along with along with these other television providers. giving a front row seat to democracy. >> our first guest of the morning served as former secretary of labor and the bite administration currently the executive director for that national hockey league players association. joining us to talk about other topics this morning secretary, thank you for giving us your time for. >> think he is my first time. the reason he brought you in was a talk about the idea of substance abuse it. it's like telling us your own story. as a producer your career is

interesting. and the secretary of state representative. all that is possible. none of that would have happened. i moaned and thought it would have but it with alcoholism when you're out there not so much fun. realize i was fortunate enough to get into a treatment. twenty-eight is old. i'm in detox, or my going to do now? my friends are at the barroom, realize that when you're in treatment that your life is just beginning if you're fortunate enough to continue on the road to recovery.

i have been blessed. >> when did you know you had a problem? >> probably at a younger age knowing i would go out and stay out all night long, black outs s happen.gs like that you do not want to acknowledge it pretty know inside you have an issue but you do not want to acknowledge it. when people around you start dropping hints when i worked at that labor union i was putting much in the office some of my coworkers would drop pamphlets on the desk and all that stuff. you kind of look at it and push it aside. you don't really think about it. it is a progression. as you get more and more into it progresses. the challenges and the problems get bigger and bigger every time. >> you said you went to treatment, what brought that on? what kind of treatment you undergo? or so to alcohol treatment down in the cape at the rehab is out

of the cape. a sound there for a week. what brought it on was a series of bad diets, bad days, things you do that you regret when you are drinking alcoholically but not realizing your impacting the people around you. i was doing all of that. when i went down and drove down to my first night in their the guy didn't want to go over i went because i thought i was going to lose my job. i went to get the heat off meet whatever it might be. a lot of heat at that point from family, friends, and my boss. i drove down that was a sunday i would gather my first day in their walk in, the check everything to make sure you have nothing on you. they do an assessment of you. and then you go into groups. i got to one meeting in my life. the person i told you about left a meaningless book on my desk which was a book from alcoholics anonymous. i circled one at one night and

went to a meeting. i got there at five minutes until seven i left at 850 or whatever time if not years later i got there late and i sat in the back. the guy next to me had beente drinking as listen to the speakers and i thought the life was pretty impressed but pressed i found out i left at the break. i did not hear the message that night. so we could treatment my first night the group came in and detox that night. i don't run with the first speaker said but the first speaker gave me hope. they taught drunk a lot you explain your experience of being an active alcoholic. strength at getting into recovery and the hope of what it brings. when he spoke that night something happened. i just had a different feeling and detox that night. and i listened for the week. to pick up again ex could be

kill somebody, kill myself, whatever it might be. he learned about the disease but learned about a whole bunch of different things even though alcoholics anonymous is not a god program. i am a catholic but it connected me too a higher power were have a relationship with god. but is not a spiritual program. i don't want people to be afraid ofof it. >> is not a colt. it's unbelievable. so i did that. a year end a half later i was running forru office. i was running for my district in dorchester but i got elected state representative and ice earned six seniors and house of representatives. one of the big issues i worked on was recovery programs for funding programs, learning about it, understanding all of the different challenges it. heroin, i called it putting it

bluntly it was an epidemic and 97. officially deemed something in 2000 but oxycontin have been running through, hair would have been running through, drugs have been running through. i got very active in the recovery community both personally obviously as an individual but also supporting recovery programs in and around the boston area but funding programs. i got very active in that. cooks are guest with us until 9:30 p.m. if you went to ask questions about his experience of the topic of substance addition and recover here's how you can call us this morning. two 202-748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones. 202-748-8001 for the mountain and pacific time zone spirit if you have explains with addiction, he of questions for our guest 202-748-8002. you can always text us your thoughts 202748 when you ran for office and your continued political career were you worried the past would come up with you there be b a stigma

attached? excited about what a member state rep. somebody did say to me at one point someone grabbed me and said it's unfortunate about word on this or is it what is it? i said your drunk driving arrest. i might have never been arrested. [laughter] it becomes rumors. when iran for rep it was not an issue at all. it was a local kind of a race in a boston when you're running convert legislatures local neighborhood to neighborhood,ho parish and that parish. when he ran for mayor of boston is a little different. it's a broader race. and it can get nasty. there's a story written about me, positive story i did know if i wanted it done or not but a reporter called me up and said i want to do a story on recovery. i'm torn on whether to do the story. there's a privacy piece of it and all of that. but he ran with the story. and it never came up, and the

race no one brought it up at most of the people know each other anyway they knew i was in long-term recovery at that k point. no one ever brought it up. never became an issue. even i think about who was in the obama administration when he was going for the job. cultic drugs act but running --they went after him in congrs for it people understand it is in every home across america but not every home but a lot of homes across america and across the world. look at addiction and issues and alcoholism light now. >> and asking president biden was considering his labor secretary to the topic come up? snow, never came up he did not come up at all. if someone is going to criticize me or somebody for admitting and working on being an alcoholic, n shame on them. there's enough stigma around

here is mental health that we do not need morean stigma. the president never brought itt up to me. no one in congress brought it u to me and if they did i would simply say show me a family that doesn't have anything have any addiction in the family. >> secretary marty walsh with us for this conversation rep call sign up for you. this is it david. david is in georgia for a lien for this expense with addiction you're on the secretary walsh, xpgo ahead. >> yes, i've been sober ever since 1994. i was not able to go through rehab. i could not affordab it. but what a miracle going through aa. there was a long hard road to go through. i lost friends, and it was just a long hard road.

>> you certainly know the promises of alcoholics anonymous and recover it now. been- sober for a long time. thank you for telling your story. a lot of people have to take the path you took for they do not have the ability to get into rehab.ey they do have money to get into rehab but they're able to get their life back together. keep at it brother, a day at a time. >> host: from gerry in new jersey your next step good morning. >> caller: listen, i have a question for you. i don't want to get into it too much. but rehab, my concern is i see people coming out with almost the same problems they are going ngin with. -- in with. the reality, really, is very difficult. how do you get that kind of help? where do you draw the line with drug addiction and t >> caller: are drug addiction and hen the reality of lie and how do you help these people

this.ith that >> guest: thank you for the question, jerry.qu part of it is the when you get out of detox, rehab, you need to get connected to something. and you can't just simply come out and all of a sudden you're cured. it's not like you have a broken arm, you put a cast on, six weeks later the cast comes off a, you're out of rehas been and you don't have to go back to the doctor. it's a daily struggle, and i think if you have a loved one and anyone if watching has a lovedne one in and out of rehab, make sure they're connecting to a program, alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous, that heir talking to other people in recovery because going to defox is just kind of the first ten of admitting you're powerless over alcohol and drugs, and the second piecece is working on yor life. as the previous caller stated, you know, he lost his e friends, family, lost everyone. you have to rebuild those relationships, and you don't do that by simply just going to defox. there's a process that has -- detox. and also i just tell people watching, you know, do your

research on these rehabs. when you're looking at where to send a loved one or, make sure you do your research on these rehabs to mistake sure they're a proven record. if your going to send somebody out of state, check with a consumer licensing bureau, somebody in different places just to make sure that you feel positive. there's a lot of places that do, unfortunately, take sang of people. same thing with sober home, making sure they're licensed and they're properly quipped to handle -- equipped to handle your loved one ore if you're struggling yourself, to handle what you need. >> host: substance abuse and mental healthha services administration tells us that 24.9 peoplean age 12 and older used illicit drugs in the past year. and there's other statistics there. when you see those statistics, talk about the role the federal government has in helping with substance abuse. what's the high level -- >> guest: yeah. no, when you think about substance use and recovery

programs, i think this is two sides of this. number one, we can't forget what purdue pharma and oxycontin did to america. it put down such a strong foundation for addiction down there thatt from that point untl today, it's just compounded where you have kids having kids, people having children who had substance the use issues, never really got clean are, their families never got the support they needed. it's generational at some point. so i think we have to deal with the past as well with. we have to figure outut i how do we, number one, lay down some programming that can get people on the path away to recovery. i think that when i was the secretary of lay boor boar at department of labor, we had the mental health parity bill which was pushing insurance companies to pay for -- insurance companies will sometimes put a cap on how long you can go to detox for or a lifetime cap. sometimes you need to go three or, four, five times before you get sober.

so we're looking at that,, the ol is doing some work on that. so i think the insurance companies is to loosen their reins a little bit here because you're saving lives. we have to make sure we're investing in recovery programs. were also have to rethink the wy we do prevention, how do we educate young people. i think the earlier, the better. i know some people get concerned if we're talking about drugs and alcohol at a young age, people get concerned for a lot of different reasons. some reasons are because people don't want to think about what's happening in their own home, but so important for us to lay down that foundation at an early beige -- age, what drugs does to people. alcohol and drugs, i think alcohol's still the number one killer in taking people's lives, but drug can, they alter the brain, the body, the family, and they -- so i think the federal government can do a lot more with invest in -- investing in it. and i think states need to be more consistent as well. we're look at a whole bunch of different programs, how to we moveve forward.

okay, let me give you an example. when i was mayor of boston, we were talking about safe consumption sites, they were in canada. and, you know, i was against them. whenai i was the mayor. because i just felt that it was -- ist thought in my own brn that it was kind of promoting drug use with, for some crazy reason. any path into recovery is a good path into recovery. that sparked a little light in my brain. i went up to canada, to montreal, and i visited some of these sites, and there were people there using drugs. i wasn't on the street, there was no needles in back alleys, it was in the facility like a health center. and when you walk in, you know, you do the drugs internally, but you also have recovery all around you. when -- and i was talking to a guy who was getting ready to do his drugs, and i said to him, have you ever thought about recovery? no, i haven't. how come? i just haven't thought about it yet. just haven'tid gone there.

my head -- and i said, well, what happens if you want to? oh, they'll help me here. so when you think about it, that's a very controversial issue, but it keeps people alive long enough for them, hopefully, to get the program. >> host: do you sense it's a bipartisan effort? how do -- >> guest: for the most part, it's bipartisan. certainly in the massachusetts legislature i worked very closely with the republicans and democrats together. you know, the former governor of massachusetts, charlie baker, is very active in this space. he's a republican. you know, in congress it's still one area, you don't hear a lot of back and forth about a, you know, progressive and conservative and middle and moderate. you don't hear that. i just wish there was more focus and more attention on it. i think that there definitely, i think there's a lot of bipartisan support there. i don't think, you know, because, again, i think almost every family's had some type of -- you're not that far removed from knowinge somebody that needs help. but i think that i would love to

see more attention to it, love too see it raised. we obviously have a lot going on right now, so it's not going to raise to that level, but i'd love to see more effort put into recovery instead of locking down our borders and stopping drugs coming into the country that's important. that's the political talking point that the people say, oh, drugs coming in from mexico. no weng can about it. but there's -- no question about it. but there's drugs in the united states of america. if they couldn't get the drugs from mexico, they could still get the drug, and we have to do more about this. >> host: this is from emma in washington d.c. good morning. >> caller: hey. so thank you so much for sharing your experience. it's really inspiring and cool that you are talking about this publicly, and i'm also in recovery. i'm in a 12-step program. it's a program called coda, codependents anonymous for people who have relationship issues, because with i had a lot of mental illness and abuse in my family, and the program has helped me, like, so much, you

know? and it's been great. yeah, i was wondering do you recommend being open about this kind of thing with employers or potential employers? that's something i feel nervous about sometimes. >> guest: i don't think you necessarily have to be open with your employer about it but i think, you know, talking to people that, you know, support staff the around a you, let other people know, you know, one thing i found that, you know, obviously my recovery's pretty public -- [laughter] and in some way, in every way it's good because sometimes the people randomly come up to me to the talk to me about their issue, or they'll talk to me about something, you know, they'll talk about recovery program, and i think that's a good thing. i think with your employer, it depends on your employer. unfortunately, not every employer in the in america or in the world is open and understanding as other people should be. but i think that for if you personally, if you have a burning desire inside and you think you need to talk to your employer, i think you should. but, you know, take it a day at a time.

>> host: are you they protected under privacy laws? >> guest: i think sometimes employers are look at somebody who has substance use and maybe say, okay, what's going on there9. and i what they don't understand is when you have somebody who is going through a 12-step program for t whatever it might be, they usually become the best employee because they're taking all the energy they used for their dependency or whatever it might be, for this conversation drugs and alcohol, now they've turned it around and now they become work with holdics, i really -- workaholics. there's a lot of positives there. i would love to say employers don't hold it against people but, unfortunately, i think in some cases they do. >> host: joanne is in texas for our guest. joanne, hello. you're next up. >> caller: hi, good morning, pedro. and good morning, mr. walsh. i just want the say congratulations on your sobriety, and i just want to commend you on your bravery. thank you so much for bringing this top ebb toyo the forefront.

topic to the forefront. my comment is that i really do believe america needs to do better when it comes to providing rehabilitation for addicts. my husband and i were 'em empty nesters for a long time, and then, you know, we had to start all a over again and start raising my granddaughter because, you know, my son has some issues. and, to of course, we're happy to be there and support him, but i really do think this is more common where where grandparents having to raise their grandchildren because there's addiction in the family. so thank you so much for bringing this to the forefront and,h again, god bless you, ani just want to say to anybody who is facing addiction either, if it's either alcohol or drugs, just stay strong and just keep fight, keep fighting for your

life.. so thank you. thank you for taking my call. >> host: can i ask you a question, caller? >> caller: absolutely. >> host: are there support systems for you who have to deal with these issues even though you're dealing with another family member? >> caller: there are. actually, one support group that i'm a part of is grandparents -- yeah, grand parents raising grandchild here in texas. it's not a are big support group, but it is there for us -- a very big support group, but it is there for us to talk about and to get resources because, unfortunately, the system is broken for these children, for kinship foster families. so, you know, just using that a support system is very important for my husband and i at a this time.. >> host: joanne,fo thanks for sharing. >> caller: yeah. joannea said a lot there. i think some support isal anon,nal a teen for family members or for kids with parents

who are alcoholics, you can go there and get support on what to do. one thing that joanne said that you asked me a previous question what can government do, fund these programs that are not appropriate funding rate. when you think about hospitals and what doctors and nurses make, some doctors and nurse -- some nurses, they're underpaid. some are paid good, but they could always be paid more. in these programs these people are paid basically minimum wage. so you're asking them to help a loved one get through a very difficult period of their life, and you're paying them minimum wage and depending on the state, obviously, minimum wagee is pretty low. and we need professionals. we need to make sure we pay the focus folks in this field higher so we can retain the talent there and recute other talent there. i think a lot of people might want to go to college to become a psychologist and work in the field of mental health or substance abuse. they go to college, they pay

$40,000, whatever it might00 be, hay get out and all of a sudden they to to a treatment facility and want to work there, and they're a paid a little over minimum wage. it can't -- it's not -- they aren't able to do it. so if we're going to fund the programs, let's fund them as if a program we're really trying to helpop hemopeople. you saw the numbers. i just it should reading a book at a hockey player who passed away in the '90s, and in that book they were talking about 20 percent of all people at the age, i think teenager tried some substance abuse. it's up to 30% today. and and it's probably higher. youu know, so we're next if more people are trying it, that means there numbers of addiction in substance abuse are going to go higher, and we need to combat that. i mean, that -- it's a problem in our country. we have an epidemic right now. you think about, i think it was a million people actually died of overdoses in america. a million. that's the ones we know of. that's the ones that were registered. a lot of times people don't want their loveddo one registered asn

overdose. you think about that. a million people that are if you taken the substance out of their body, that's a million strong workers in america that we lost last i year, and we probably lot the year before and, you know, the pandemic made it a bigger issue. but it was a big issue before -- >> host: how has fentanyl changed this? >> guest: i mean, every new drug brought into the mix is a game-changer, obviously. is think, you know, whether its oxy, heroin, crystal meth, fentanyl, it just continues to change the gain and make -- the game and make it more dangerous. >> host: is there any avenuega under the affordable care act that helps people with a2006? >> guest: well, there's coverage in the affordable care act. but again, it goes back to insurance companies not dodging this issue, but actually dealing with this issue. if i'm an insurance company, i'm going to look at the bottom line and say i'm setting my laws -- my -- to rehab or whatever three, four, five times. if you took all of the success of the people you sent to rehas been that never relapsed and you

look at their medical records, they're not showing up at the emergency room, they don't have issues inside their body, they don't have liver and stomach issues, all these other issues. so you put a person on a path, you're fixing the individual not just mentally with the addiction, but you're with also helping them physically with the way they appear. they change -- their not going to the hospital every weekend for a fight in a bar or whatever it might be. >> host: let's hear from dave. dave joins us from wisconsin. you're on with our guest, marty walsh. >> caller: hi, good morning, marty. congratulations on your recovery. i'm, i've been sober for 13 years, a little over, and i'm also in recovery. part of it's a 12-step program. and when i first started, i had the impression that if i stopped drinking, you know, that would solve all t my problems. and come to find out that,s you know, alcohol's just a symptom of the disease.

and, you know with, as i've gone through it, i learned a lot about dealing with just life. taking life, you know, as it comes. not thinking that that just because i'm not drinking, everything's going to be fine. because it isn't. and anyway, that's, that's about all i have to say. but congratulations, and it is one day at a time of. if you can get through each day, the next day comes and there you are.th thanks for listening. >> guest: thank you. you're absolutely right. and it is a constant, you know, it's a constant, daily reminder of working on this in your life. it does get better but, you know, for me going, being -- staying active in the program helps me live my life a day at a time and deal with other things. an example of that is when the a pandemic happened, you know? we didn't know when the end was. we didn't know what the end was. i was mayor of boston, and i was this, i was thinking to mikes

like, i can only do a day at a time. i can't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow's not here. this is life. and if people get this mindset, can't do much more, it's not here, weed's gone, all you have is today, worry about tomorrow tomorrow, and when the day comes, you're just a day at a time. that's kind of how i've lived my life in a lot of different ways. i've taken the tools that recovery has taught me, the program that's been laid out, and i live my life that way. not just by staying away from a drink every day -- >> host: to what degree is it a struggle today versus when you started recovering? >> guest: it's not, you know, i've been blessed, you know, i have -- it's just another day. you know what i mean? i think back when i started recovery, i'm like, oh, my god, how am i going to do this rest of myst life? that was myth mind season set. and you realize it's a today at ayo time. when you get that opportunities the -- understanding, you don't think about how hard it is. >> host: if i may ask also, how

did your family react when you starts recovery? >> guest: it was positive. my mother was happy and, you know, we have a lot of recovery in our family, uncles and aunts and cousins, half our family's in recovery, the other half might be in recovery, doesn't need to be inn recovery. you know, i think when you get into recovery, it's just such a are relief in the family many so many different ways. and what joanne said, it's hard when you have an active person in your family that you love that just constantly can't see that yet, can't see that people love are him or her. you know, it's sad to watch, and you just pray that the loved ones fine their way into recovery at some point. let's hear from john. john is in michigan. john, thanks for calling. go ahead. >> caller: good morning. i wanted to introduce something different that often times is overlooked relating to this idea that there's always something wrong with us. and we need to go to a formal

program to fix us. and i, i discovered a book, i had stopped drinking sick years ago -- six years ago. i never really could get into the idea that there's something inherently wrong, but i knew there was, you know? [laughter] but ing found a book that was called "the easy way to stop drinking" by alan carr. and it would give somebody another avenue to explore to learn all the bad things about drinking in a very fun nebraska way.y. he starts off -- funny way. he starts off the book by saying don't stop drinking until you finish this book. that was hook for me. and i just thought i should introduce another, you know, consideration for thoughts. and just how do you feel in i mean, in my mind i guess i don't feel there'sing something wrong with me. i still play hockey on fridays, and i'm out talking with the guys after i, after everybody's trig a lot of beer -- drinking a lot ofof beer, and it doesn't en

faze me anymore. i just have completely eliminated this bad thing from my life. and i guess just share with me your with thoughts about maybe how others could consider that kind of thinking. >> guest: yeah, i mean -- first of all, thank you for sharing that. there's a lot of different pathways into recovery. some people go to detox, some people want to talk about going to aa, some people just talk to somebody in recovery, some people might read a book, some people might do different things, and i think, you know, i think it's important whatever the pathway into recovery, i mentioned about the safe consult sites. if that's a pathway to recovery, it's a pathway to recovery. ii think that's great. i think that everyone is a little different. some people don't love going to answerer a. i particularly like aa, it grounds me and i love that. i suggest everyone who's in trecovery just give it a chance because you're surrounded by people in that room that have gone through or are going through whatever you're going through at that particular moment.

i think that's important. i think that, you know, when you stop drinking, you play hockey and you play hockey, you said, and you hang out with the guys afterwards. there are nights where you just take off and they might stay there drinking. we don't put ourselves in harm's way meaning if you're drinking a wine right now or drinking -- well, man, i don't care about that. >> host: it's coffee, just to -- [laughter] >> guest: yeah. but if i come out and i'm c jus, like, i don't really get uncomfortable. if all right, i'mdo all set, i'l just leave, it's that simple. you just don't put yourself in those situations that could harm you. >> host: from patrick. patrick is in new hampshire on our lines for those experienced with addiction. patrick, thanks for calling. >> caller: hi. i'm 35. i live in new hampshire. i started on the purdue pharmaceuticals, the oxycontin there when i was 20. i've been 8 years sober from that now. then i started drinking because that was something that wasas legal at the time, and i was on

probation, so i started drinking. my whole family was alcoholics, and i've been three and a half years sober now from alcohol. and i just wanted to say a couple of things, like the lady who called that said she should talk about her with her employer, i just t want some people the take caution because it is something that i'm open with. i'm open about my addiction and i have no problem sharing it, and she probably doesn't have a problem sharing it. she i seems like she wants to share her story. it's good for her to talk about it, but a lot of people will talk behind your back, use it e negatively against you as well. so just be careful with that. and the last thing i wanted to say was, well, i wanted to say, go, bruins. hopefully they start swinging tonight. and i have no insurance right now, and this has cost me $150 to go see a doctor and then $2 the just to pay for the prescription -- can 212 just the

pay for the prescription. i know there's a lot of people out there struggling with no insurance, and i just wanted to say that you're doing a great job. i'm a republican, but you give me lots of hope, and you're someone i can definitely support in the future. i like the way you talk about your addiction and how you overcame it. you're a hero e really to a lot of people, so thanks, marty. appreciate you. >> guest: oh, thank you. i appreciate that. i'm not here for anybody. people came before me, they're the hero. so we with just kind of just followth them. >> host: he b talked about -- [inaudible] there's also an argument about methadone -- >> guest: yeah. listen, again, i've come full circle on that. when i first got sober and pairs got elected to the house of representatives, i thought abstinence was the best way, you know? just stop everything, rough it out. and if, you know, she lox sin, if it's used the way it's prescribed, methadone's used the

way a it's prescribed and you can work through it and you don't pick upd, heroin, then it works. and i'm completely full circle on that as well. you know, i think that people will find the methadone clinic and take the picture of the person nodding out, meanwhile, they don't take the picture of the 300 other people that a went in, got their prescription, took it, went to work and walked around as lawyers, doctors, whatever it might be. if you know, in offices. no one's showing that picture on a front passenger of a newspaper. they only -- picture of a newspaper. and i think those medicines can be used in a good way. ibe would like to see a recovery program with them. the one thing i get concerned about some of this there's supposed to be a clinical, you know, counselor with this stuff. they just -- so many of these prescriptions sometimes there's not enough clinical psychologists to work with the person that's taking these drugs, taking these medicines to get off drugs. if you're not shooting heroin, god bless you.

>> host: what do you think can about the legalization of marijuana? >> guest: i didn't love it when i was mayor of boston, i fought it. i getth concerned. i think it's a slippery slope. when i was state rep, i had the same people that a legalized marijuana came in my if office, they wanted to decriminalize marijuana, and i asked them to tell me, show me the amount a of people that are in prison for an ounce or less off marijuana ever just give me one person. andd that passed. and and then it was medical marijuana. well, what about medical marijuanass for these really bad cancer patients that need treatment even though it was already on the t books, and now you have marijuana. and i'm just worried -- and now. you have some places in the country trying to legalize certain opioids. i get concerned about that. i just get concerned about where we're headed there. >> host: let's hear from amy. amy joins us from new york, clifton park. hello.jo >> caller: hi, good morning. it's nice to be able to speak with you. i wanted to share my experience a little bit because i'm

actually a therapist, and i worked in substance abuse counseling for around five years shortly after i got my master's degree. and what i really saw as a being a huge barrier to care for people was healthh insurance. i mean, i'm a big believer in single-payer health care, and i really think we desperately need that because i saw a lot of people who really did want to get sober. they wanted to do better and they wanted to do better for themselves, but they were having a hard time because they had plans that just -- with just unaffordable co-pays, or they couldn't come in as often as they needed to because they couldn't afford the co-apays. for some people they had a very hard time navigating the insurance system. they weren't sure what to sign up for, whether or not coverage was available. a lot of times it varied about

what they could apply for or what they did qualify for. and it really was very difficult for people and and, honestly, frustrating for me to see as well because there wasn't much to do about -- there wasn't much i could do about it. i don't work for insurance companies. but, yeah, that was the main thing i wanted to say. the other thing that i think would really be very helpful would be more focus on harm reduction which i think would include thingsoc such as safe injection facilities. the one thing i learned very early on is that you can't force anyone to be sober. i mean, you can set consequences for them if they're not sober, but it's up to them as to whether or not those t consequences matter if to them. >> host: okay. amy in new york, thank you. >> guest: yeah. there's a lotgu there. amy said a lot. i think on the insurance side of it, i'm not sure single-payer is the fix to the problem. i think mandating insurance

companies for treatment, i didn't mention this, drug courts, if they're done properly, you know, we have a lot of people that go to prison because they're e alcoholics or addicts. and when, in fact, they might have a drug problem or an alcohol problem and they wouldn't have committed the crime, i'm talking not serious crime, other crime. but they usually create that smaller crime before they create the biggercr crime. so having drug courts with good supervision and good programmin. we need beds. you have all these programs out there and you get can, a judge gives a young person or somebody, you know, you're either going to go to jail for a year or treatment, what do you want? nine out of ten times they're going to take the agreement -- treatment begrudgingly, but if they have ago bad ebbs appearance -- >> host: this is james in florida. you're on with marty walsh. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i just have one little thing to bring up. i think i called the wrong line, couldn't get the numbers. however, i have a problem with people always saying drugs and

alcohol. alcohol is a drug as far as i'm concerned. it's a case of you may as a well be saying drugs and heroin. and i just think it puts a disconnect for a lot of people. well, i'm not doing drugs, i'm just drinking or something. and it grabs them. >> guest: you're right. when i sayig drugs and and alcohol, you think about recovery programs, at least for the drugs, it's drugs and alcohol. you know, i don't -- at least, but i hear what you're saying, and i think alcohol is a drug. and alcohol, as a i mentioned earlier, i think, i actually i don't have the number in front of me, but i think alcohol deaths are higherme than, actuay with two, opiate deaths at this point many our country. >> host: where are you with the idea of drug or alcohol manufacturers, whoever ultimately become addicted to these things openly pay paing up as farah as therapy and recovery? >> guest: they should be part of it. we've mentioned this company if once already, purdue pharma, and i remember having them in my

office many years ago before they did the settlement, and and it enraged me and lots of people what they got away with, knowing what they were doing. and some of this is, you know, when you think about advertising for alcohol or marijuana now, when you put ap an advertisement on a train and cigarettes, you're targeting young people, you know? if you already have the 25-year-old. you don't have to put a fancy thing up there for an ad a for alcohol for a 252-year-old. -- 25-year-old. you're targeting other people. we have to be sensitive to all that. and i think in some of these cases these companies who are responsible for the devastation they're causing should be paying the money into fix that devastation. ..

i met him through ralph perry. dan is a good friend. and yes, i have been a mental health advocate for 25 years. i lead a life of addiction basically. i won the davis cup twice and when the chamfer ship and tennis. my drug of choice was winning tennis matches. i took upn alcohol and became n qualcoholic. quit that cold turkey. do you think besides drugs have tennis match i either won or lost. do you think that can change your brain chemistry and make you more predisposed to seeking some other kind of release?

and the other thing, i quit cold turkey. and then i came down with covid four years ago. and you probably know it does not allow you to sleep. it gives you insomnia. i've been on ambien for 25 years and had never abused it. betty started abusing it and i had to own ants. i was that ed covered long-haul resin covid about 18 hours a day until about a year ago. i developed an ambient addiction. had to own it. i look at my sister and said i'm an addict. so i guess what i am saying is like with mental health you cannot help people who have a mental illness unless they're willing to own it. and they are willing to seek a good help. does your brain reset back to normal if you get into good recovery? >> thank you. i don't if it resets but it certainly gets to normal.

i don't ifll you're ever normal help to think about moving forward pretty brought up a point when you talk about being an athlete. whether you are in military or athletes structured until a certain point. when your career is over you are in the military or an athlete or whatever sometimes there is empty space there you're too busy or too regimented or too disciplined and that could be another opportunity thaty peope put it down and pick up drinking and that turns intog alcoholism might have always have been there. but it just comes right out too. too.quick celtic: all we can. hello. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. it takes great people like your gases today to talk about this issue.e. thank you c-span for addressingd this epidemic that's in our society. it is a disease. i am a member of a 12 step

program for people who are struggling with addiction. addiction to narcotics. and from there i've gone anyway i want to emphasize the 12 step programs don't have any fees. i don't if anyone wants too. it is a wonderful spiritual program not religious. it is a disease that affects all kinds of people from differentds class and gender and your background does not matter. the sickness spreads to the people who are around the addict precooked is a great commercial by the way. you are absolutely right the 12 step program looking for help yourself or help for a loved on but most times people don't know you are new.

you walk in, get a cup of coffee, a water or whatever is that you sit down and listen. if you don't there's no money to it. it really is one of those places you go for help. a lot of people are intimidated walk into the stores. my advice is in every call that calls and today knows this when you cross the threshold. your life can be completely changed in the positive. if you're struggling out there today and a lot of people do because there's resources out there for you to understand how to live with their loved one. how to deal with their loved one and how to encourage that person to get help. one would say it's up to the individual put the individuals notre willing but there's always going to be a moment in time where the individual might be willing even for five minutes. >> marty walsh serves in the byte administration the former secretary of labor. he is executive director of national hockey league players association joining us for the first time in washington.

thank you so much relaxed think it's is been great i appreciate you taking this topic think is very important. e and thank you very much because earlier today at nasa administrator bill neln was on capitol hill to outline his agency's 2025 budget request before the house science, space, technology committee. wah the full hearing tonight at 8:00 eastern on cpan2 it's also available on c-span now arr free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. >> is a college campuses nationwide continue to experience unrest the israel hamas war several senators have commented from the floor up right next remarks by republican leader mitch mcconnell senator john cornyn from texas. four months the most elite corners of american art education. they have made headlines for all the wrong reaso