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public service along with these other television providers giving you a front-row seat to democracy. >> sam sabin is at a table who cover cybersecurity with axios you to talk about renewal of the foreign service intelligence act. renewing section 702, remind our viewers why there is a section 702, what it is. >> guest: section seven of to his foreign intelligence surveillance act, has been around for so long. it is here primarily to give intelligence agencies the ability to surveilled non-americans abroad. to think anyone who might be, the intent is to surveilled anyone might be planning a terror plot, who might be caring at cybercrime, ransomware, anything of that nature. however, the history of the.

>> and has been a bit fraught. intent is for text messages, e-mails, things of that nature. but those whoio are broad who ae non-americans, but, of course, if i'm an american his communicated with someone abroad, who for whatever reason is targeted by this program miking medications also get stuck into this program. all this information is put into a database that is been freely available, they cannot freely available, but available to intelligence agencies for years to come. and they concert set for other investigations to say they are still looking into thehe same person who issa organizing varis terrorist plot or something like that. the idea is they can get permission, look through the database, search through it. sometimes this is led to abuses, this steps by the fbi in particular. we have seen democrats be surveilled by this program. we have seen republicans be surveilled by this program.

usually that means when you say surveilled it means an agent has probably searched at some point for that person staying or has come to the committee geisha and in some way, shape, or form. a lot of critics of the program call this a way of bypassing maybe our fourth amendment rights, being able to surveilled without a warrant and it is caused a lot of controversy on hill this week in particular. >> host: speaker johnson wanted to move forward with it, arguing the reauthorization bill that he wanted to put on the floor included reforms, many of them. what kind of reforms? >> guest: essentially that bill that was on, try to get on the floor this week included reforms that were codifying somethings fbi has artie been practicing over the last of what you say roughly a year or so. they are rules that basically dictate who at the fbi is able to search the database.

they are not changing the way in which a surveillance is conducted or in which e-mails and texts are collected, but they are basically dictating how an agent is able to get permission to search the database, who was even able to search the databaseas and the types of permissions they need to get from either a fisa court or from someone else her up and fbi beforeme they even are ableo conduct the searches. the fbi says this has enabled them to use the program within the confines appropriate about 90% of the time, 2% out of hundreds of thousands of searches is still a big, big thing, and that is what some of the critics of speaker johnson's will are fighting against an angling to see more reforms that close that gap. >> host: one reform push by some republicans, thomas massey, we played, he's been on the floor, yesterday requiring a warrant. what would this do and if that

were to get approved, would that secure its passage in the house with republicans? >> guest: epyeah, so predicting the house vote this week, i don't have a magic eight ball. i wish i did. i think it changes our by our interns of whose voting for what. what. in terms of the warrant, this is an amendment is being pushed by the house judiciary committee in leadership there. the idea is that anytime anywhere in the intelligence community, not to see if beckham wants to conduct a search there would need to get a warrant from thee fisa court. if they want to look up information about americans. there have been instances reported by the fisa court which oversees this program, it is a bit secret like every thing else in the intelligence agency, but there have been reports of inappropriate searches of your senators, of state senators.

the idea is that for whatever reason during an investigation someone is to search and americans information in this database that we need to get a war. the intelligence community will tell you this is a lengthy process. this will impede their ability to look up information quickly. you don't always have probable, what maybe meets the merits for probable cause would get investigation in your early days, and perhaps trying to get information -- confirmation something hard and information of 702 would probable cause but you can't get the word so how do you get the probable cause? it caused some back and forth. it is really unclear if this is going to ensure the passage to the house floor. i would have. to believe there's a warrant attachedar that anyone in house intelligence who has been pushing for aig non-warrand bill will probably vote against this and it's such a slim majority in theag house that its like really changing our by our in terms of what will and will

not get the passage of section seven a few of the reauthorization. >> host: section 702 expires when? >> guest: april 19 april 19, next friday. >> host: what is a sinner planning to do and what does the legislation look like? >> guest: yeah, the senate is mostly and a wait-and-see mode. a lot of senators have started coming out. from what i've heard it is mostly the house game. a lot of back-and-forth is in the house. when it comes to the senate we are increasingly saying leadership over their backing a bill that would not include a warrant. it is really kind of quiet entrance of what would happen if there is a warrant requirement. any windows this program is important to add up to anyone wants to see this program lapse. it is really kind of touch and go. i'm anticipating the senate will pick up whatever path but really depends on what amendments are added, what is included in this bill that getsde through the hoe at some point in the next few days or even a week or so.

>> host: we want ourur viewers to join us for the conversation this morning. here's how you can do so. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats 202-748-8000. and independence 202-748-8002. you can also texas include your first name, city and state to 202-748-8003. t what happens if this were to expire? >> guest: if this were to expire it's a little tricky. the fisa court has already reauthorize the program for a year. w the fisa court does is a basically what they're reauthorizing is we which the program can be used. they are dictating if it can be used for terrorism cases, for cyber crime, drug trafficking. they are basically doing that and it's already been reauthorize for the next year. so depending on who you ask the program changes a little. there are probably different procedural things thata will happen and it will probably most likely still be operating in some way, shape, or form set to expire after that authorization

next year. however, the biden administration really wants to see this reauthorize for the long term. i think everyone is a bit tired of talking about this. >> host: any concern with a legal challenge if the fisa court can authorize how it is used, but congress has not even authorized its use. >> guest: yes. there have been lapses before in the program, and it really changes who participates, who was willing to engage with this. it does create some weird legal challenges especially since the fisa court operates in such a secret way, just by the nature of it. it is meant to operate in that way. suggest there are sincere of legal challenges, think that's why iphone is pushing to see it reauthorize even though the court has technically authorized the program for the next year. >> host: john in michigan, independent. >> caller: the funny thing is

all the talk about people coming across the border and that i think it would be seriously a a push for trying to get this fisa thing pushed through because for potentially an integral terrorism withinr the united states if they're so worried about all these of people coming across the border as well as in other kind of terrorism, whether it looks like another january 6th or anything like that, being able to find out things ahead of time would probably be a pretty darn good idea before it actually happened. but that would be my comment. >> host: are people making that argument? >> guest: i think you're hearing a lot of people make that argument, particularly and the house intelligence committee you are seeing a lot of people who are doing we need to be able to investigate. we need all our surveillance powers intact. there's no good, they would argue, from impeding the

surveillance program. that's exactly the argument being made in passing this in keeping without a warrant in this moment trimmer fbi director christopher wray on capitol hill today. you can bet he will get asked about this program. he will probably bring it up himself. our coverage begins at 2 p.m. eastern of the fbi director testifying about the president's budget request for his agency the likely this program as well. you can watchly on c-span3 and also watch on a free mobility at c-span now, or online at c-span.org. darrell in portland, maine, and independent. darrell. , good morning. i just wanted to speak about the new act that was coming on. i heard all about president kamala harris and the irs, the inflation envelope that's been going on with his finger i feel like reagan should be able to do this, and nice -- [inaudible] >> host: talking about the

future of the four intelligence surveillance act fisa, section 702 is theon debate in washingt. republicans, 19 of them, blocked the house from moving forward on debating and voting on this legislation. what happened after that vote? what is the plan on the house side? >> guest: that is a great question. there were several, there was at least one closed-door meeting with many republican members of the house last night after that vote. my understanding from my colleagues who were on the hill that that meeting was for speaker johnson basically was working really hard to try and get his t colleagues on board wh the bill that he was trying to get onto thehe floor yesterday. it is still unclear if the conversation moved the needle at all. it is pretty on par for any bill, where there's beenar an integral stripe with the republican party, there's always

a conversation where speaker johnsonnv is pushing to get what he needs through to get some cooperation and people still can be buzzing. some of the lawmakers who were there last i walked out of the meeting still unclear on what was going today. i think it's pretty early in the day. i'm sure by 5:00 this afternoon the conversation will be completelyha different. so yes, , it's still pretty wait and see. there are still meetings and calls that have been had, and it's really kind up in the air as we had through today. >> host: a classified briefing after this vote failed. with intelligence community officials. one member ofefth congress saide makingid republicans who voted against the room were not at that briefing. so why hold the briefing? what is the point? you can't tell us about a classified briefing book what is a point of holding them? >> guest: the classified briefing was scheduled before yesterdays vote. i would have to imagine the

intent was to see maybe some of those 19 colleagues to vote against the bill. these classified briefings have been happening to hopefully educatebo lawmakers about the ue of the program. part of the challenge that intelligence community is that safari is what they do cannot be public all the time. and so they would argue a lot of misinformation about the program, misunderstanding about how it's used in these classified briefings able tobo o into more detail about the types of investigations that 702 has helped with and really just help members understand the program, ask questions in a way that maybe they can't ask during a very public hearing. and so that washe the hope. it had been scheduled before and so i think the intention was to have more people at that briefing, but, of course, the floor vote went out. >> host: hawaii, independent.

>> caller: hi, greta. hi, sam. i thought i would call up. it's interesting, i just had a conversation with someone a few days ago about this. i was asking my friend, i have been hearing about the fisa stuff and i thought didn't make it past by -- [inaudible] and they were telling me kind of what santa say, that it's kind of been extended but, of course, congress hasn't really bought in. asou far as like things are happening, i i mean for my understanding, obviously there's a huge amount of platforms that are being utilized. fisaut really only controls a a certain realm of it, which is listening to phone calls with americans. and i've heard stories which a even could count once on the phone with you guys we had another journalist about it, a person who objected to the phone call because they knew the conversation was originated here in hawaii.

and they terminate the call even though the person who was tasking the to transcribe said, please transcribe the call and he said no way because this, these obvious americans, or at least one person is an american because they are in hawaii. but i'm curious about, will there be legislation that will actually affect the of the types of things that edward snowden released, prison, and just a huge amount of different systems that are available to engage bulk handling of data, of peoples data? and also,da of course what happened with carter page is indicative of, he couldn't sue because he couldn't find the person who basically turned on the investigation on him. he was suing the government but the government said no, you can

only see one person to if you don't who that person is, you can't sue. there's a lot of things i think you guys need to discuss any know it's not an easy topic. >> host: thanks, alan. sam sabin. >> guest: i think you're hitting what is really been at the crux of this conversation, right, which is fisa over all. the program on the table right now is intended to mostly be surveilling foreigners not in u.s., right? but, of course, fisa includes programs that allow for surveillance of americans. there has been constant back-and-forth, constant debate. that is part of the hurdle we're facing right now and part of the reason why congress is passing the short-term extensions or just being in division because anytime you talk about fisa it ends up being about the act over all, the question of how do we surveilled and

you. it's an existential question that is consult on the mind of lawmakers and it really is fueling the division right now. >> hos he's a post on x from one of our viewers because or provision under fisa s section 702 regarding use of artificial intellig in clecting relevant intelligence data under the act? >> guest: yeah, i think that's an interesting question actually. i have been asked yet. kudos to ever sent that in. i am personally not aware of any certain provision that touches on ai in general. of course it has been mentioned that intelligence agencies are looking into how to use ai. it's fair to assume that maybe they are looking into it for various programs. i can't speak to 702 in particular and a don't want to miss and from the audience, but it is a very interesting question to think about. if anything, i think the intent would be to use ai mostly to

assess the data that is in their and model things of that nature rather than ai surveilling people or anything like that. >> host: chris wray fbi director may get asked about that when he testifies today at 2 p.m. our coverage on c-span3, c-span.org and our free video mobile app c-span now. joe, tennessee, republican, you are next. >> caller: good morning, ladies. wasn't hillary clinton the one who is expert on this fisa where she had all this information that she bought and paid for such thing and is like 59 of the fbi site off that all this was actually true information?? i'm just a little lost on this fisa thing, have democrats can use it to their advantage. if someone can explain to me more about that i would really appreciate it. have a great day. >> host: any thoughts on that? >> guest: yeah, my understanding is that fisa, i

don't have a recollection of this being used by a presidential candidate, unless i'm mistaken. the idea is that this is something that it is ruled by the fisa court which dictates how it canou be used. it is data that is intended to be used for intelligence investigations assisting in drug trafficking cases, or cybercrime or terrorism from what we know. i'm not entirely sure if that would be the data you were referring to, but yes, this is mostly thinking of things that maybe nsa and other agencies are using fun what do we know about the fisa court who is on a calm how itha operates, et cetera? >> guest: yeah, not a lot.

of course intelligence agencies that work with the probably know. it is very classified. i do want to make it seem like we're operating in th' dark for no good t reason. it would be a threat to national security ifri adversaries knew exactly what the nsa was looking into, the cia was looking to come fbi et cetera. i do want to make seem like they're like to operating in the dark for nefarious reasons. it is a court with a judge was basicallyio overseeing the way e program is authorized, right? and if the were to be at work requirement would also dictate whether or not agents would be able to search a database for various reasons. the court also reviews how the program is used every year. they are the ones who are releasing reports, dictating abuses or missteps in terms of search queries in the database. .. missteps or overly searches the database, the court is the one usually keeping the program in check.

host: and who are these judges? guest: great question. they haven't appointed, they are like a typical judge with security host: sam sabin thank you for the conversation this morning. >> the house is planning against alejandro mayorkas in the senate chamber next week. senate republicans requested the delay in order to have chamber connectable trial the boat to dismiss the article. live covag next week on c-span2. c-span now, free mobile video out and online at c-span.org. ♪♪ >> de scandal every unfiltered congressional coverage 45 years.

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history by the u.s. house and senate treat authors and historians will of the stories and historic footage and examine the impacts to look at key congressional hearings. the senate committee by democratic senator examining organized crime in the early 1950s. he figures including costello and the fbi's acknowledgment of national organized crimes in the passage of racketeering and organizations act 1970. march congress investigates saturday's 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> alejandro mayorkas testified the president's 2025 budget request and answered questions on immigration policy durin a