we'll discuss the state of negotiations to fund the government ahead of a weekend deadline and the latest efforts on foreign aid for israel and ukraine with with christian chris the bryan.senior then, with vermont democratic senator peter welch. also the executive the director of the selectionsks about a recr report on election security and improving state election laws. c-span's washington journal. join in the conversation live at seven eastern wednesday morning on c-span, c-span now -- our free mobile app -- or online at ■at6c-span.org. >> we are joined now by francoiy of new york, he sevens as political science professor and also studies the topic of haiti particularly as it's uer turmoi. good morning.

thank you for giving us your time. >> guest: good morning, you are welcome. >> host: when you see the currt t are going on in haiti, how would you say did we get here? >> guest: well, it's a long story, but we should start maybe former president left office not having held any parliamentary and municipal elections, so the country went into chaotic situation, and he had to be a pl president who held elections. that election was contested by the■x opposition and the main members of thesi opposition because you didn't have a lot of large participation of electors in the and then also there was not any parliamentary elections, so by 2021, the country basically was

running without any officialss. so in 2021 the united supported the installation of -- [inaudible] if as the interim prime minister, he was supposed to a short period of time, but it's been tree years, and he did not hold any elections. meanwhile, the gangs began to haiti's capital, port-au-prince, and many provinces also. there became -- they became the de facto rulers e off haiti. you had a lot of crime being committed, guns coming in. all the institutions were basically nonfunctioning. so, therefore, you end up in a very chaotic and nonfunctioning state in haiti, and it has >> host: the united nations tells us that because of the situation there, 362,000 people

are internally displaced within the country, 5.5 million needing of humanitarian assistance. and you talked about those e gang issues. in 2022 there were 5600 gang-related incidents including over 3,000 killings, over 1200 kidnappings. tell us more about these gangs. we hear the term gang, but tell uste a little bit about who maks them up. >> guest: well, first, the gangs originally were security guards or protective force for many of the businesses in haiti.rotectee businesses. this is alsoal how they squash any kind of opposition from the population to test members of the civil society who wanted to have a better society in haiti. and the gangs also came in -- [inaudible] in fact, the u.s. government encouraged the federation of these to hopefully that would control them. but instead of returning them,

sense that no one could control them anymore. you know haiti has been or -- has always been -- for drugs going to the united between the- [inaudible] drug trafficking, you have more drugs coming into haiti, many of those directly from the united states. and there was a lot of protests especially by the asking for the u.s. to pare down the gun traffic in haiti. but thisff did not happen. so the gangs eventually because -- [inaudible] by the politicians, they had to -- money used kidnapping s ad extortions to get other forms of money. anymore, and that's how they ended up controlling the capital

and the jewish i additional system is very corrupt haiti. so you end up having -- most of the capital. >> host: and when it comes to the discussion about man at thef that that a gets quoted often. he goes by the nickname barbecue. who is he is? -- who is he? >> guest: barbecue was a police officerment -- officer. he was very closely allied withw michel -- and also other government that came in. so he was basically sanctioned by the government to go out there and terrorize the population. so barbecue is not -- was made by members of the government as a way to mistake sure tth check. barbecue also control a large part of the slum in --f port-au-prince. and many of the members that are

in the gangs were either policeq officers or people closely aligned with the police. because the guns and support that he wase getting came members of the government. therefore, he's not just one person that just came out of the slums. he was a well-trained police officer worng on behalf of the administrations, and eventually they empowered him gang leader that he is today. >> host: the name of barbecue and our discussion are continue withs our guest. going on in haiti and particularly the role the united states plays, 202, 748-8000 for those of you who are■h democrat. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. if you w us your questions, your comments, you can do that at 202-748-8003.

it was recently, mr. pierou of state, antony blinken, spoke with reporters last week about the situation that was going on in haiti. the u.s. efforts to stabilize it. of what he had to say and then talk about what you think that a means for the u.s. going forward. >> on haiti, as you know this has been a long -- [inaudible] the heart of the story is the suffering of the haitian people. and we want to see that brought to an end. that requires a few requires a e political system so that the countryca could function democratically. and for that, we need to see a transition to elections, to a clear return to a democratic at path. we need assistance, humanitarian assistance, development

assistance so the economy can get built up, people can■2ave opportunity and, fundamentally are, with need to see security because if it's very hard to do either of the first the who things in an environment that ii profound insecurity that is being driven largely by the action a l of gangs -- action of gangs who control big parts of the capital the city, critical infrastructure, etc. so we've been working on all thes and, as you know, the united nationsio endorsed some months o a multi-national security support missionon to help the haitian police regain control of security. as we'rel putting that togethe, kenya stepped up to say that it would lead this missi. brought r countries that are around going to contribute to the mission. we ourselves are contributing significant resources to it. in parallel, we've also been trying with the caribbean countries, other interested

countries to help patients get back on a better politicalt: sof the united states. what's the reality as theof the? >> well, the reality is a that since 20211maybe haily leaders i leaders and civil society members have been in battle over the state department telling them they haven't -- [inaudible] as the prime minister and that, first, he was not -- about a having a traditional governmental elections so that the country can become part of the legitimate state where it can function. secondly, he was not doing anything to curb the gang violence or tocu bring them to justice. so it's unfortuna thad gotten t, because the state department no matter what they told them or

explained to them the situation in haiti, they said he man.ti unfortunately, how the state department decides to other leaders -- [inaudible] democratic in haiti that are supported by the civil society organizations and population, haiti was not in the situation right now. two whole -- to hold elections -- [inaudible] it would have had a parliament and municipal elections, and there would have been other leaders in the country to bring usut situation. unfortunately, they have gotten so is bad now that the country has been shut down. even the u.s. has a evacuated its personnel in haiti, and now they're -- with the embassy. could have been prevented had the u.s. not supported him. >> host: again, francois

pierre-louis of queens college at the city university■ us for s discussion. let'sng hear from sean. sean in california, democrats' line. you're on with our guest. good morning. >> caller: good thank, everybody. i have a comment and a question. mymy comment is i've been watchg haitihi for over yea and i remember the young man mrn heft a citizen and his mother as trying to feed their local communities after a lot of the hurricanes that they had. now, i'm going to break it up to the question. what happened to anyone that's debatingon haiti's president bes not at the table recently with all these other countries deciding for haiti? also how is it that that we can bring kenya, who is having their

own issues over in haiti? they do not know that culture. kind of reminded me of the vietnam war. and why is it that there is no haitians people that are in table? if i i do not believe anything e saying.say sitting up here you are calling these people gangs and thugs and criminals in this so many words when i am seeing nothi criminals or that e causing this problem many haiti. and when they're having hurricanes, no one is helping okay. shaun from california, or we'll let our guest respond. and to the point the caller brought up as far as haiti's ability to bri own voice into resolving its problem and to the degree it's listened to, mr. pierre-louis, what would you say to that? >>uest: question, and this is what the people's society is has been asking from the beginning, let haitians decidele their own fat.

the problem haitians have with the united states the that the u.s. in some ways has put its big thumb on the scale in deciding the fate of heavy been doing this for a long time -- they've been doingng ths for a long time, and so far the results havee been tere. [inaudible] if other countries to decide the future of haiti or there's not . they're just supporting the same leaders in haiti that have shown terrible results over and overf■ again. for example, after the elections in 2011, we had hillary clinton was then secretary of state. she went personally tost haiti to -- [inaudible] to choose president. that was officially declared the winner.ea

and then -- [inaudible] that there was -- do on haiti and themselves. is our muching or you know, effort or the u.s. has beenoi remove what they want so that they can impose their own leaders. >> host: let's hear from christine, inden d.c. >> caller: hi. i'm calling because, i mean, we know the history o haiti. we know why they've been treated, they were a black country that in the formation revolt■■ ainsthe slave trade. there's a big history there, and i believe that, you know, then they were treated like a shep child -- stepchild andhen so we have this interference with other countries trying to put leaders in place,■ttc.

ier however, what is the solution? so if you don't want outside interference, which i agree with, however, internally you're dealin major corruption. i mean, major poverty. and so what is, like, when you say handle it inside, i totally agree. but how does that, what does that look like? how does that work? i mean, what is the solution are? because thisis is, this has gone and it's really sad. haiti deserves better. >> host: okay. that's christine in washington d.c. mr. pierre-louis. >> guest: thank you for your question and good commence. first -- comments. first, haitians are not saying we don't want out help. what they're saying is that, yes, we want the help but under conditions that we want to set up. in other words, don't come ino. just d have a dialogue with us. ask us what do you want. and secondly, give them the freedom to choos

candidates. the past two elections that took place in haiti, the u.s. basically and the u.n. spo those candidates, managed to keep them in power even though they weren't democratic at all.s president of haiti did not -- [inaud]lections. and he was supported by the state department and the u.s. ambassador. when -- not hold any interim elections for parliament and the -- [inaudible] when -- was assassinatedded, the state department did not ask the civil society can -- and and other citizen organizations in haiti how do we -- in having a prime

we saw a tweet by the state department despite the the -- tl the government this is not the way you should do it. you should have a conversation with us. so i think the idea of choosing haitians as children -- [inaudible] has been a long history ofst the u.s. in the haiti. and this is what has created or the chairman the office deco

support the economic positio ha. therefore there is a history of punishing haiti or making haiti look bad for u.s. foreign policy. some of the haitian international community. when youre come in and the children are children and you are deciding for them. anybody would not accept that. >> currently the headline they say their involved in battling the gangs that are there currently. how does that complicate the situation? >> very,

the vigilantes gangs. the games gangs are armed. they have drones, we have a the vigilantes have machetes. therefore you have a situation you look at children the elderly are in a victimized situation. there are no flights out of haiti. it's getting worse and worse.q the roads are closed but dimmed the dominican republic has closed its border too haiti. in tryin to basically shut out the whole population. so therefore why is the■ethat w? and for it more forceful transition and set another ■z

this is aon question and why thy are not trusting the internatio cause queen's college of the city of new university of new york joining us for this conversation. let's h from jon in massachusetts, republican line. >> hello. thank you for taking my call, can you hear me? >> you aren, ahead. what's what i don't understand tthe united states and some troops over there at least to quell the forces to give some security to the country? so at the haitian people can take it from there. all we need is security and peace and maybe the rest can work itself out.

sohe people with their heads together and move forward from there. as long as the gangs keep going nonstop but still what it is right now. they need to quote the game. that is what i like to say, thank you. >> jon of massachusetts, thank you. >> yes i agree government, the national community along with the haiti they can't control the gangs of the international committee to do that. the reason i'm saying there no will because the u.s. knows they know who the gang leaders are. whor calls on the gangs, where their money is coming from and how theyit can manage to control the situation. so that.

we have beenin working with members of congress. we have been meeting with members of the state department. we have been meeting with groups asking them to take actions ai gangs. if they had done that you would not be in the situation. olmsted sending with u.s. embassy and checked on the airports and shut down the countryon i think they could've done something differently. they are forcing the government to resign with the prime minister. and then y'd■ have the government that could deal the national community. >> maryland, democrats line.

edit good morning you are on my head. >> thank you, thank you for taking my c first of all i like to remind the viewers the role haiti +n in saving america from napoleon bonaparte. pretty much allowing this country to go from east bonapare had to sell the louisiana territory crossed over into mississippi going west to thomas jefferson to recoup the he lost by the leaders of haiti. certainly i would like to address one of the rootall bam bam that called themactuall. many of them are in miami, eating popcorn with microscopes looking at■sge over

there because they are the ones financing the gangs. they are the ones behind the divide and conquer because they are people did not want this. they wanted to choose the leaders. for example he bought his diplomatic immunity from israel. most of these people who are not patients came over because there's gold, copper, even in diamonds and offshore there is oil. t they are there to take which was most ofre doing is take that wealth of haiti and having the haitians who are standing up will never let go. they will never give up their land for people outside coming on diplomatic immunity all arou world. >> thank you.

one thing i would like to see to the u.s. since the binng. the independence in georgia rev. patient has been supporting thee u.s.or u.s. is not been supporting haiti that way. we don't thomas jefferson explicitly saider stop the diplomatic relations that would be a bad idea having those people in power. so many years the u.s. did not recognize haiti as a sovereign on. after the civil war they had to send an ambassador too haiti. therefore the u.s. and haiti

we know the american people are very generous there is a lot of money to support haiti. they've been supporting haiti for lon t americans. the u.s. government of the hatred has for haiti has n jeff. not giving haitians the r thems. can also decide there is a fear about haiti. moreover, i think what happened as you mentioned and spent with the lobbies to other influential members off the community.

and hear the haitians and members of the society. we know the elite in haiti does not want to pay taxes. they do not care about investing in the country. all he does is really■= not reay investing for the rest of the people.■ the haitian people are hostage right now that is what we have a crisis. >> the centers for customs and border protection tells us over 163,000 people migrated out of the country in 2023. the for 2024 so far 85000 people. what does that mean for those leaving the country iná&■ states? it works every time haiti is in any means necessary. they leave on boats, by land or

any way they can find to get out. right nowhis crisis we want the united states i was so people do not choice. we are very happy to join the family here. united their family to better themselves. that is something the u.s. government. more or less there many haitians began in 2010 and in this situation here

in the u.s. cannot do back. also it's a very good years ago there was a petition program their loved ones from haiti to reunite with them. primarily spouses and children.d encourage that. this is not a solution for the crisis in haiti. the government crisis is establishing the democratic order. with their own representatives, will l t■b own people and succeeded. then you are no agency in havingg that person.

democratic. the criminal investmen in haiti because again, most of the people who belong our images. a few have jobs you have peace, you have security. you cannot introduce a system. no one wants to come to the. trying to take all of these risks. when times end up losing their lives to come to the u.s. peace and security and stability should start at home. i was so sure he would support the haitians in haiti. there's no way you can have people leavingiv haiti to go somewhere else but that will not happen. that is why a lot of members

choose their own leaders >> if i understand correctly you served on the private cabinet of the former haitian president who wasn 1991. what did you learn from his overthrow? what lessons can bens applied to whoever he's going to be the next president of haiti? >> the u.s. is there. you cannot govern in haiti without a measure on the u.s. secondly the u.s. should try to respect the will of theple. we have 70% of the population you program. they did not want to pay taxes. were it was to go to washington.

se■&that is o thing. the second thing on this.any other country has a lot of people when you define a common ground to alert them to share power. we cannot take power by . you have to pay more attention because it can be morehan just your friend in time. and third, education who never be in the country well because basically in the economy. it's about having families when peace and quiet so they can go about their business. despite giving opportunities to people they can see it haiti is a place they have to

leave. so therefore i think what we learn as you need organization. you need explanation, but also you need friends were willing to help. >> ever present is installed in the right way. >> wasn't economical program the judicial program became president in haiti. [inaudible] by providing them money forñ -- training programs so they can get a job and put those in jail. some try to put in

jail. basically in 2006 and 2011 to control the gang leaders. whether it was to control the labor they were dominant in. the judicial system and the package and the training for the young people any more in the future. >> here's david from tennessee, independent land for our guest. >> hello, thank you. call.you for taking my @+ if the united states sending money to haiti in all these other countries governments, if we are not funding the very people the immigrants are runningwa from? the old adage feed a cold, >> going to finish a thought, david.

thank you. okay. let's go to joe, joe in new york on the republican line height.d morning? we will travel more time forr joe. &gokay if you want to call in ad ask our guest question 202,748,000 for democrats 202-748-8001 for republicans and independents 202-748-8002. post on our text if you went to 202-748-8000 back into the topic of migration, fortis governor desantis talking about potential migrants coming to. he was caught on fox news sing i don't expect necessary to get the help we are entitled to. with out of the last several years as good job they are under resourced.

cinque president biden wouldurat provide the number of vessels they need to4r intdict all the ships that come. again that's an fortis governor, what you think about that response? how surprised are you buy it? >> the governor of florida has a large haitian american population. and as a human bng the is also. they know full well people who are destitute. where they can go to to say something in human like this was really not becoming of them as a governor florida. i think when you look at the situation of nations because they want to come to florida. haitians are fleeing haiti there is nowhere they can survive

theirck due to the l of the government. many of the aid that goes through haiti. money that a goes for the u.s. government comes back to the u.s. is the act like it never happened. you have a lot ofof corruption. money and by the political banks. many political leaders have their homes in florida and part of the united states. in the action to present that from corruption. so therefore it's turning its back on the haitianw people he does not really care about people in general. even though we are states. we all came in one way or

another. when we came and it wasn't difficult.wh her whether you were persecuted in the u.s. welcome them. we are a country to■ go and find opportunities other places.■nápr central america and the caribbean. and other immigrants in the country. and this is unfortunate but. go-ahead. >> good morning sir. it is almost unfortunate to what you are saying and from the callers.

i don't think these so-called gangs are gangs i think they are freedom fighters yours have read and fighters throughout the world. i think these people are sick and tired of robbing of this rich land of all of its resources. everyone knows they do not need foreign aid. they've got more resources there than america they prop up civilian government that we want from these rich billionaires in florida and france. in some of these other countries to rob the rich countries of their natural resources. these people are not gangs. they are sick of being robbed. they are sick of living in we all know haiti has natural resources way beyond its means. there have the investment to get it. lend a couple of dollars it's all in the resources.

then there are some troops from! africa because haitians are strong fighters. they will reject a white army coming there. they to help rob them of their resources. i don't know what his name is. >> got the point, james. for time i'll stop you but thank you for calling. if you want to respond to any of th >> first i would not agree with the caller about freedom fighters. the freedom fighters you don't gond children. and burned on their homes. secondly responsible the same people you want to free. but when you go out there and homes and alluding businesses and

kidnapping people who have no money. burningng doubt their houses, displacing them. i cannot agree the caller about this. but as you all know you may have the resource you may not have the right investment to bring the external resources. that resource you cannot do much about. you have to have the right condio environment and to benefit the population. patients are in the own government they are allowed for their own leaders. they are free to invest. you give them a little bit of money they spent thousands of

dollars. we should allow them to do am se or so it would be different. but first you have to allow them to choose their own leaders. >> as we finish up what are you looking for in the days and weeks ahead with the res o on ai hope some type of good will come out of it. >> i'd like to see a government secondlyly the national communiy to defend the country. i have friends inn they cannot go toow the doctor. they cannot leave the country. from this we condemned to because of the lack of medical help. at the same a new weapon outside of haiti.

the position of government, let that nations decide forward andn place so they can be free and fair and also because of the economic disaster that tooker place commo patients can start getting back on their feet that is what hope happens to haiti but. >> queens college the city university of new york is a political sciencefessor. >> thank you. ♪s a free mobile app between what's happening in washington live and on demands.

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her te giving you a front road to democracy. >> next we hear from retired general and kenneth mckenzie on their involvement with the 2021 u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan by general mckenzie was u.s.ndee told lawmakers he took full of military responsibility for the suicide bomb attack that killed 13 u.s. service members as they helped with evacuations general milley served as chair of the joint chiefs of staff in 2021 also gave his assessment of the withdrawal plan and the lessons learned for this hearing from the house foreign affairs committee runs almost four hours.