>> congress returns today facing another deadline of friday midnight eastern to fund the government and avert a partial shutdown. the house is back at noon eastern and along with the senate plans to vote on the for 2024 to fund the federal government passed the deadline. lawmakers will consider several energy policy bills as well as legislation to block the sale of american sensitive personal data by data brokers to foreign adversaries. the senate returns tuesday at 3 p.m. eastern. senators will consider several president biden's judicial nominations including service employees international union general counsel nicole barner tm e as a u.s. court of appeals judge for the fourth circuit.

if confirmed she will be the first openly lgbtq judge to serve on that court. watch live coverage of the house on c-span, the set on c-span2 and reminder it watch all of our congressional coverage with our free video app c-spanat c-span.. >> on thursday white house treasury secretary janetung yellen testify on president biden's 2025 budget request and ontions subcommittee hearing live at 2:30 p.m. eastern on c-span3, c-span now our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. >> we want to welcome to our table this morning can block, author of this book disproven by unbiased search for voter fraud for the trump campaign. his name may sound familiar.f so software system. why did the former president

campaign, hire ynd do? >> it was a two-part project. the original request was for me to look for evidence of voter fraud in the swing states in the 2020 election. i was looking for evidence of deceased voters and for voters who voted twice, oe a swing statean and one in another stat. very quickly a matter of a day or two after w campaign attorneys whosi are dog their due diligence asked me to begin evaluating claims of voter fraud ever come into the campaign from a viewer come from from all over the country, from amateurs looking at data to lawyers whose names we all recognize, making claims of fraud. and when those claims involve data the campaign asked me to evaluate them and tell them that w in every circumstance they were false. >> host: you write in the book

the contract was signed on november 5, 2020. i had no idea then how finding so little would lead to so much. you sign contract with the trump campaign on that day, november 5, 2020. how long did you work for them? also you see some of the craziest days i've had. >> host: 35 days. in 35 days did you accesso acceo to determine whether or not there was fraud? >> guest: so it's very nuanced ansomebody give you. the answer is i had access to all of the data that was available at that time. so i had full access to the data of the rnc had available. what's interesting about voter data is that no state makes available to anybody who voted in person inside that 30, 35 to

wonder wonder. you get all the mail ballot information you can process but for some reason that's a large chunk of the vote the wasn't available. however, all that information is made available usually by january february after the election. just because the data was available to me at that time, cause nobody has gone through and determine there was a bunch of fraud, that is not an impactful, meaningful problem that i had when i was working in november of 2020. >> host: well then, , explain trump campaign and say there is no voter fraud in those 35 days. >> guest: i didn't say there was no voter fudk÷. s i told them there wasn't enough voter fraud to matter, and that's an important distinction. we did find some dead voters. we did find some duplicative voters. but the numbers were far less

than the thousands, many thousands thate necessary inside the swing states. i wasas very transparent as we discussed the challenges without access to some data and not having access to other data. i can pretty confidently say the trump attorneys i reported to specifically alex cannon who is my w main contact had a lot ofáj confidence in the work that i was doing in t the fact as being as through as it was and i probably was numbing his brainnt educating him about about voter data and processes i was going through. i know he trusted my results and he communicated very thoroughly to mark meadows at the end of the day that the campaign looked extraordinarily hard at number looking for fraud when he g everyone else's claims of fraud and with a nothing arose to to the level of changing an election result that would survive legal scrutiny in court than what you write this book, disproven. did you go back after those 35

days and do a more thorough look at the data after moore became available? >> guest: i didn't personally go back and take a look at it. some of the data, all but it is a goal n the people what such a strong, strong vested interest in looking, for sure that many eyes ice a look at this data afterthe through-f the data and make any determination that contradicts what i done within 30ha days. get the thing that's important remember here is to file a claim in court you can't file a claim based on data that doesn't exist. >> you can only work with what's out there right now. right now there were plenty of mail ballots to look at, tens of millions of them, having gone through all of those there was, look, my job was to find it. and if there was massive voter fraud i would be the guide to do it, right? it's an thing if you are able to have finding like that. i also wasn't going to ruin what

personal professional reputation for delivering results that i would be accumulated with in tha sentence in there that said i'm going to deliver you find that will stand up in court. unfortunately there was just nothing that rose to that trammell who hired you and why? >> guest: alex cannon. i don't know why. i'm still to this day? how did he■ç■] find you treasuri don't know. you have to remember in those 35 days there was no time to talk about that sort of thing. it was action packed from five in morning it'll sometimes all my. >> host: is a data specialist? >> guest: i own a software engineering company. we specialize in large database applications. i . i participate in an architect of the countries first on my card system for f food stamps fr the state of texas. we do a lot of work in the gaming industry. lots of transaction and lots of data, that's right do a lot of my work. data mining for waste in front of something i've always enjoyed

doing and it's important to do. we looked at foodstamp fraud and medicare fraud, that sort of thing. >> host: who did youou talk to during these 35 days from the trump c■0paign and you did you not talked to? >> guest: the simple answer to that is almost all of my communications were with alex cannon. as we set up the framework for how i was going to do this work, he told me he was going to keep my identity and accompanieshe do is doing the work because he wanted as to be unbiased and want us to behielded from political pressure. he wanted us to be shielded from people insisting on a certain set of results because you can't, that's that what works for a successfulourt case. it was just alex from anyone within the campaign that was him. >> host: when you spoke to alex cannon where did that communication go from alex cannon once you spoke to him, who did he talk to?

>> guest: so at the time i had no idea but with the january 6th transcripts i learned, obviously he was talking to other upper-level campaign attorneys and then most notably the fact that he delivered the news to mark meadows that the campaign was unable to find any fraud that mattered, , they coud changehe result. after everythie reports that mark meadows told investigators that he took that information into the oval office. host: who did you not talk to? guest: really just about everybody else. ■0alex cannon, before i would go to my wife in the morning i was talking to alex cannon and pretty mh ersation i had duringe day. host: what about rudy giuliani and other lawyers? guest: i saw■■ claims that i can confidently say came through sidney powell.

she was hoping to push a mathematical theory to prove voter fraud, and that was wrong. i saw a claim that life and able to piece together and pretty sure came from john eastman 16,002 pickett votes in nevada. this is a pattern. all the numbers were hyperinflated because the people who did the analysis didn't understand what they were looking at and they didn't understand how to make >> your book, "disproven."

it is your turn to ask question. before we get to calls, which states did you focus on in this book? guest: georgia, arizona, nevada, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. host: in point pleasant bod mor. caller:seen you on tv. there is nothing you can say about the seven states you are talking about, they changed their unconstitutionally. you cannot tell me that is not right. rudy giuliani had affidavits from poll workers and the judges didn't take them up, they said they lacked standingyou keep cu,

to get the same number. they weree votes. that is what happened. host: please hang on the line and listen to the response. guest: this is an important point. my work was all tasked specifically to finding the fraud that would survive legal scrutiny. when you bring it to court and the defensettorneys are going to come at you with everything they have two show you messed up, that you were wrong, it is a very high bar. a light of what you're talking about is not data evidence, especially the rudy giuliani thing. it hearsay evidence is almost never evidence you can bring to court successfully, especially when you want to overturn an election result. as far as the cost is not treating the laws, there have

been court cases where that was not determined to be a problem. i get it and understand it is upsetting and many people wanted the relt my role was very narrow and very specific to deliver to the camp ecould work that could overturn the election and it wasn't there. host: gordon in wyoming. go ahead. caller: good morning. "washington journal"be required viewing for all three branches of government. when they take their oath, they have swear to watch washingti a. trump and biden are geezers, they need to step aside.i woulde president harris go against liz cheney.

younger people, please. something off of the subject, building a peer in gaza can yoc here? do you have a question or comment about ken block's book? caller: i am sure trump lost the election for goodness's sake. that is all i have got. host: we will move on to randy in west virginia. randy. caller: how are you doing? can you ask how many■t democrats [indiscernible] host: we will take that. guest: bit because we, -- we found a couple hundred fraudulent votes.

we found some diseased votes, a couple hundred get votes. if i expand it a little bit and include information from 2016 where he identified a crush -- we looked at, we found 8000 confirmed duplicate votes with the most number in florida. when you look at the registrations and fault and it is 50-50. it is not all democrats, not all republicans. people are voting twice, it is usually a crime of privilege. one who owns two homes figures there is not a lot of harm in them exercising their franchise twice even though it it is only recently with the advent of computers which have only involved -- only been

involved sin00 way we have beeno identify this activity and hopefully eliminate it. host: explain highly illegal. if you get caught and convicted -- guest: is a felony with up to five years in jail and is $75,000 -- a $75,000 fine. caller: my concern is not who won and who but undermining the integrity of the election by introducing mail-in ballot without validation. i spent my career as a scientist in process validation mostly with over-the-counter drugs. separated the mass mail ballots. it was clearly outside of the state's constitutional guidelines t the amicus brief that was rude and was not taken up by the supreme court --■p that was

written was not taken up by the supreme court. in alameda county, there were 113,000 that were not accurate to the addresses. there were all kinds of other things. what should have -- we should bs and said the system won't be robust and therefore we are going to count them separately. id attached. we will separately id, attached to the envelope and then we can any audit. this last election was not a robust validation for an host: hang on the line and listen to the results. right when it comes to rehabilitation we currently have in place for

il ballo the country. we talked about election integrity. one of the changes we have is every state does it differently and many timesin the same statee same thing with the differently. that -- inconsistency integrity are two different i have a lot of things in my book that we should do to improve. in other a lot of congressmen and commerce women that watch this show and i'm begging you to consider a nonpartisan effort to evaluate how we operate our elections and make some necessary changes. i don't demonize mail ballots, but using signatures to validate if you are who you say you■. are when you cast a vote by mail, that is a real challenge. it is century old technology.

better than what we are doing right now and i have many suggestions. i agree with you, we need to do better than we are doing right now. host:ou look at pennsylvania and the claim of dead footers. what did you find? -- dead voters, what did you find? guest: i predicted a couple of dead folks and it pennsylvania before they occurred. what is interesting about this is a was involved in looking at all of the registered voters in pennsylvania to see who is deceased. died years before september 2020 when they had brand-new restrictions. i said you watch this will be fraud. that warning made its way to a lawsuit making its way to pennsylvania's court and sure those deceased voters cast votes. the votes counted but after the fact, the person who created --

and there were different people for each foot involved -- they arrested those people who made those fraudulent votes and they prosecuted and got convictions for those apartment votes. what is interesting

>> guest: so let's imagine this didn't happen, let's imagine i found 15,000 fraudulent votes in georgia. okay? had i found those votes and pretty confident that no court of law would a look at those and made a determination that therefore the election should of beent nobody could claim and document would be that those fraudulent nt trump's interest. those votes can't be shown to harm the campaign. you don't know who those votes were cast for your that's an important point and for all of -- all of these issues that revolve around fraud is without being able tom in that those votes went to trump supporters, you're not going to get an election overturned. >> host: sticking with pennsylvania and the claim by some trump lawyers that there were dead voters, you found what? >> guest: i think we probably can tell you, ten maybe

on the high end, and i don't i think there were only a handful that i'm aware of, two or three, that resulted in convictions. i don't know what happened to the rest of them. the fraud i did find, as best as i know, they didn't forward those results to law enforcement. >> host: dan, sioux falls, south dakota. >> caller: hello. >> host: your turn. >> caller: yep. my question is, so trump lost the popular vote by like what, 8 million and you lost the electoral college i like 50 electoral college votes. i think where to go back to gore v. bush were we had the hanging chads down there, it was that razor thin. what you are saying in your boat is you try to uncover the fraud and tome out to

where it would affect the election. we also got to go back to that timeframe, that was during covid. so there's a lot m time. i think this election coming up in 2024 of be like a lot less mail in ballots and more in-person voting. i actually had a guy from mississippi come to our work in south dakota and said are you going to make sure these elections are bound? i said what i go vote and my little elementary school here in sioux falls, south dakota, you have to have your id. they cheñck it and actually double check it with the role and then you go in and vote. so there is no voter fraud republicans, okay? my question to your guest is, why won't trump and republicans accept the fact that they lost? because al gore had to do back when george w. bush won even though i think he sort of got actually screwed in that election. >> host: let's take yourhy don'k

trump will not accept this? >> guest: it's a good question. i don't have any answerbly a pol answer to it. my role in everything that's happening right now is focused in on the data so i'm not going to dive into the political piece of it. i have run for governor twice in rhode island. i lost a statewide primary by ao concede that race. i didn't want want to concede that raise. it was ugly, , and ugly race, intensely personal, but i like. i hope as we move forward out of 2020 that we can get our elections back to a more civil and responsible way of conducting ourselves and dealing >> host: are you are republican or democrat? >> guest: i am currently a registered republican. >> host: did you run as republican? >> guest: my

started as a central political party in london in 2009 and after needing to challenge the states file access laws in federal court getting been declared unconstitutional, launching the party we need somebody to run for governor of got at least 5% of t vote that ended up being the and i got 6.5%. and then i realized i was pretty good at the had a lot of ideas i wanted to implement. i also realize in the couple years between 2010-2014 that working the third-party this wasn't going to work. it was too hard to get traction. people can't but the head around what it means to be anything other than democrat or republican. in rhode island, i'm a reformer, i like to see change. rhode island is a heavily, heavily democrat state. the only way to affect, you can't affect change from within the democratic machinery. you haveo a

republican. >> host: you did look at the counties and how the former president one across the country. tell us what the data showed you. >> guest: a great question. for everybody to understand. this gets right to the point of helping to inform everybody why trump lost. when you look at the swing states, this is a pattern that existed across the country, whether it was a red state or a blue state, a red mean by red or blue in this case is that trump one then in both 2016 and 2020, that's thas opinion. if a democrat when a 2016 and 2020 that 20 that is blue. when you look and the vikings at that way what you end up with is across the board trump in terms of a share of the vote in 2020 relative 2016, he did less

well across the board even in the reddest of red states and the reddest of on average he did about 2.5% less well in 2020 than he did in 2016. the voter fraud, how could it be in the reddest county in the reddest state that you see this particular thing happened? that's not voter fraud. i'm going to tell you what it actually is. trump has made no secret, he has republicans, rinos as he calls them picky basically told them to get lost and they did. that's what that 2.5% is. don't just take my word for it. trump's bolster tony fabrizio authored a private document for the campaign in exit polling. they interviewed 30,000 thousand people leaving the polling places. he document this exact same problem. that he was losing republican

support and those republicans he was losing with the ones in the middle. the other piece of this that's also■u really important, giving the third confirmation about this, in the forward to my book secretary of state raffensperger in georgia identified can remember the margin of victory, call a 12,000 votes votes in georgia, identified almost 30,000 republican primary voters in 2020 who voted in the primary but did not vote in the general election. that's two trump's margin of loss. more importantly, another 30,000 votes in georgia were cast in 2020 by voters who voted for downtick of republicans, congressional races and other races down low but they left thy voted worst case the actually voted for biden. and again this is loss of moderate republican support. it remains the problem today that t