ñ"eone --

>> like january 6th. >> this is someone who has no regard for our constitution, no respect for our institutions, and doesn't care about the rule ofbo law. he thinks he's above the law. so that is really, really scary to think of a second trump term because ts is something i've tried to make the case for the people who i know who still support donald trump or

consider donald trump. the donald trump that you met her came onto the political scene in 2016 2016 and the donald trump of 2024 are wholly different people. in 2016 the kind of rent on this optimistic message of make america great again. what is the campaign message and out in 2024? all about retribution. it's all about himself. not about you and proving her everyday life and makingyo policy changes in that way. it's literally about him wanting to consolidate power in the government to weaponized that part to enact revenge on his political enemies. >> building off of that, he is a man that prioritizes or to rule over our of law. and we cannott let somebody like that near the nuclear codes. we cannot let somebody we cannot let somebody like that get reelected to the white house. i know that if one day hopefully unfortunate enough to have children of my own but i don't

want to have to explain to my children that we all were bystanders as the greatest democracy in the history of the world is crumbling and we are just watching it happen before our eyes. i think when donald trump says that and acts like he jokes but he also says he would be a dictator only on day one you're not a dictator for one day. if donald trump is reelected that is the greatest step towards fascism that we've taken in this country and i don't know if we will be able to return from that. >> there are two things come up with a look at both a domestic political front of them international political front when it comes to donald trump on the domestic front the first term they didn't really know what you were doing. he did know how -- to put it mildly. he didn't know spit is a learning curve. >> he did didn't how to use the levers of federal power the way that he will in also people who got in who were

checked about. a lot of us probably have frustrations that were not more but i think of a comet donald trump made last week saying that if nato members didn't increase their shares the russian should invade them andre that he would essentially do away with article five of nato. he talks about doing that in the first term. he wanted to do that in the first term. but if not for john bolton stopping anthony can secretary esper there stopping him that could've already happened. those people will not be there next time. to your point the heritage foundation is now collecting names to staff the future administration that is full as they described it tucker carlson scum not ronald reagan's and paul ryan's. that's over looking at, the most most powerful institutionsul in gov staffed with sycophantic boilers, not people with experience who have global perspective. on the domestic front i just want to say this quickly he knows how to use the system better. something he started to h delve

into and his term was appointed people and acting capacities at departments. it's a way to bypass senate confirmation. we intentionally have three equal but separate branches of government for a reason.o second term when intentionally the people in active capacities to bypass a going through confirmation and they could be there for 180 days without any sort of senate approval. what you can do in that amount of time is actually quite stunning and scary. so be thinking about who are the voices he's amplified? who other peoplefy to surround himself with? those are the kind of people who will bring into government. it's really a scary moment. what i want to ask you guys though is, the future of the party. i think it's really hard to be sitting here the three of us and eight months out from an election three years after january 6th and it feels like the party is completely lined up behind them. he's very likely going to secure the nomination basically tonight

if not the first week of march. what can we do in the eight mo ahead? >> i mean, i'm definitely encouraged by this room for people picture of me that we might be small but there's a growing number of republicans or independents who are fed up with donald trump and his chaos and his divisiveness, andnd the want a return to normalcy in our politics. i love hearing the message from nikki haley idols on the campaign children she's been leaning into this about the work and normal candidate? i think we all crave that they're willing to go back to that. yes, republicans and democrats have always thought but i think things have gotten so ugly in the last ten 20 years.nk i feel encouraged by this room, and i think at least for me i want to do everything i can in the next several months to ensure donaldump is never president again. and i'm hopeful that by speaking

out it will encourage others to come forward. i mean even i feel like as a mentioned with nikki haley like this turned we've seen from her in the last couple of months and are getting more aggressive in her attacks against donald trump, it really gives me hope. honestly too even in the primaries chris hutchinson, will hurd, their voices were so important. and even if there were not going to be able to overcome trump it shows me that our politicians out there who have a backbone and who are willing to stand up and say that this is not acceptable. so i hope we'll see more of those people start to run for office. and it does concern me so when i think about the current makeup of our government because we are seeing a lot of the more normal republicans start to retire now. i mean, recently we had mike gallagher from wisconsin say that he was going to retire. he's like in his 40s. in his 40s. he was the chair0' of the

committee. he is so fed u clearly that he wants to be as far away from it as possible and is going to retire. it makes me sadugh because we need more people like mike gallagher in congress and less people like marjorie taylor greene. and so i really hope that -- [applause] it sounds so cheesy but like be the change you wish to see in the world so i really hope that more people would be set up and will seek to runice and help that more republicans will speak out against donald trump as we get closer to the . >> just to build on that, sarah you are on fire today. which is to briefly build on that. i've been traveling around the country these past few monthshs i've been very encouraged by the of young people who see the threat that donald trump faces. but we need to do more we need

to do more to mobilize voters. we need to do more to educate voters. the reality is of this text election it's when you come down to a handful of states, similarly to how it happened in 2020. we need to focus on the states to make sure those constituent are adequately educated onto their voting for.ce between donald trump and joe biden people need to understand at a very basic level that there is one that there would be one candidate on that ballot that will sport our demo will continue to support our policies so we can continue to thrive, and that's not donald trump. [applause] but in saying that, too we can't just focus on donald trump. donald trump is a big part of the problem. i do not want to underscore that. but we also need to focus on caucus because donald trump

would need congress, or joe biden in a potential second term we need to rely on congress. as of rig republicans who are running for reelection or running for office are not honorable people. they are very unserious politicians. if that means we need to vote all of them out and rebuild the party from the ground up, that's what we have to do. m so much bigger than partisan politics. this is about the future of our country. we can't there can be no stone left unturned after this november. [applause] >> that's a very important point. donald trump is the biggest part of the problem but we need to look beyond that. congress matters. i appreciate the liz cheney adhering to the principles first model. she said i i want good repub that republicans.

frank with this house republican conference is dangerous. they are in a blink of donald trump and there's a handful of good ones that i want ryan fitzpatrick who sounds like will do a discharge position to get aid to ukraine. [applause] but if you're someone who is continually lying to the public you are withholding critical aid from allies, refusing to secure our southern border to deny i went to the biden administration yet the hell out. out. that's not what wege need. [applause] >> amen. >> something i want to add just piggybacking off this idea of republicans and these people in the house kind of being a threat in terms of them being willing to do whatever it is for donald trump. it's so funny because looking at the current speaker of the house, mike johnson and he really isn't much of the speaker at all easy? because he really, i mean he makes kevin mccarthy look like

nancy pelosi. [laughing] >> i'm sure kevin will love that one spirit but he really does. i mean it's really sad and he actually has such a moment right now to fundamentally impact the history of the world with a to ukraine. i mean, like,f we do not send them this money they are probably going to run out of resources and ammunition in the matter of weeks. it's not even months, it's weeks is what i heard a member of congress say on tv recently who had everything on it. that is so concerning. the house i believe is currently on recess until february 28 and yet, for the last two weeks that's what they've been doing. instead of in there doing their jobs and passing this aid bill. i think this could send the message in the wake of alexei navalny is best that america will stand on the side of freedom and not side with evil

and putin. it's really unfortunatete though that adheres speaker johnson is just a puppet for his puppeteer donald trump. >> and for vladimir putin. >> also stark contrast i think would look at cpac this week i've heard at they're not so new the amount of tickets that they have in previous years. wonder why? [applause] but also speaks to where the party is at. there are people there who are apologizing for putin like circuit city, not sticking up forin ukraine. it is beyond my comprehension why this is such a polarized issue. it's pretty straight forward of in a day which is unfortunate but this is american freedom. what has made america so special and unique since our founding is thein fact we have been able to either correct our wrongs and to look towards o better angels

and set a better example for the world stage. in america we are very fortunate. we haven't had a direct threat to our country like we're facing rightng now but this is how it starts to have. we look at countries like venezuela where the regime is completely toppled and it's because people were not paying attention. there were not paying attention to the very fundamental values of democracy and what we stand for in our republic pics i think that when we look at this next election like what witt said it was think we need to think that example resetting on the world stage, too. >> i want to note whether you love or dislike nikki haley she is proving some really important in this historic moment which is that about a third of republicans cannot be with donald trump and they are pleading for someone else. so we do all of us in the room to have a d a minority in being up to try to stop him. from winning the presidency.y. but to your point of this one all stay vigilant, seven swing states and half-point voters are

only going to determine this election. donald trump lose by the largest margin the popular vote probably in modern history. the more americans who do not want donald trump than the art that wanting. but that doesn't mean he w't be in the oval office again so have ton use our voice and we have to speak out. and i thinknk just finally i wanted to be both a closing word here as if the moment of coming ukraine's aid against russia issi not a sobering one for republicans in congress to step away from donald trump someone like lindsey graham a hawk who was john mccain's best friend cannot bulk up and do it in this we know where they are. they are too far gone to salvage and we constantly quote among each other liz cheney saying this going to be a day when donald trump is gone but their dishonor will remain in the world isay watching, our children are watching. we need to get this through. [applause] >> final thoughts, parting

>> well, i i echo everything alyssa just said, and in brief closing i want to thank you all seriously, from the bottom of my heart for being here today but for listening. and one of the biggest fears that i had before i came forward and spoke out was that people wouldn't listen. i think in our society right now we have an issue where we so often talked to be heard but not talked to be listened to. the fact you all are sitting here listening to a speak that gives u that brings legitimacy to the fact that donald trump is a fundamentally dangerous man. the more that we can create environments where people feel that their being listene to and that their thoughts are also heard, you know, my story is a cautionary tale of what can happen and almost did happen. it's not a story of complete retribution for myself. this is an arc something and

honesty some of the most difficult days for me came after i testified because that's really when i begin to process how dangerous of what i was involved in. so the only thing i will say is in this next election cycle please just keep using your voices. please just keep talking to people. please just listening. that's the only way we get out from this is that we come out from underneath of it. but it takes all of us coming together regardless of our political affiliation to do so. [applause] >> really tough to follow do my best. i think everything cassity said is absolutely correct. speaking out against ourmer boss who happens to just be the most formerly the most powerful man in the world and president of the united united states, they can be really scary and isolating. that's of being in a room full of people like you all makes it

kind of worth it because i think all of usif have sacrificed a lot in different ways to speak out because we thought it was morally the correct thing to do. and i think that discussed the hope that maybe there can be a change and we can move past donald trump and the maga brand and chart a a new course for our future. >> just one more, sorry. i would like to also thank alyssa farah one for being here but tonight she really was the first person to take that step in early december and resign.. she set the that i have goosebumps right now she set the example for people like sarah and i want to thank liz cheney, to think that in kensington. i want to thank nancy pelosi for being steadfast in critic the chamber six committee. [applause] and finally i want to think work that

sarah is truly going on in a lot of different court systems in america. and that will respeocess as a place out. but there will be a day with courts will rule. we can't rely on the courts to stop donald trump we have to stop donald trump and that's when you to do in these next few months. [applause] >> thank you sarah matthews and cassidy hutchinson. [applause] >> give all three of them a round of applause. [applause] [cheers and applause] >> so every year, every year principles first awards our "profiles in courage" award. and it's my honor to be joint

actually with our 2020s recipient, mr. harry dunn, now running for congress, i c hill police officer. [applause] and we know the courage that he showed on january 6th and afterwards. cassity, we given this award our agenda committee and our host committee put these together, a grassroots committee votes every year to pick somebody who really exemplet it means to be principles first to put the country ahead of party and even personal interest and to stand up as you did at such a young time in your career, early time and your crew with so the line, that is exactly what i do it in this room is only around the country have been asking our elected leaders to do. republican just stand up and take one riskis and you it in spades. this is for you. we are honored to have you here. thank you. [cheers and applause] ..

(applause) (applause) >> all right. get that picture first. there you go. >> oh we want one more okay. [applause]. [applause]. >> all right. we will keep. the next session here is going to be a slight change that i

think currently appears, but i think that we're all going to really enjoy this discussion. i think we'll change the title to unplugged and unafraid with mr. charlie sykes. [applause] >> now, it's my pleasure to welcome him onto the stage. i don't think he needs any introduction, but this should ab great conversation so charlie, if you want to take a seat. [applause] >> all right. mr. charlie sykes in the flesh. what an honor to have you here. >> it's good to be out of the basement. [laughter] >> you know i think this may be your third -- you've been here with us from the very beginning. you've been sort of in the trenches with us obviously. everyone in this room has listened to your podc your writings. and as someone who has been in

the business for years, the ebbs and flows from the media's perspective. 2024 election they've covered donald trump once they know the drill to some extent. is the media going to cover donald trump in 2024 the right way? are they going to get it right? >> no. : thank you. first of all, thank you for having me back i appreciate it. it's always great to be in a room of people who also are not crazy. this is worth of price of you. but, no the media is not going to get 2024 right. we've already seen evidence of broken the model of american journalism and american journalism has not recovered and just to give you an example. i actually brought notes because i thought you might ask that question. i want you to think about some new stories over the last couple of months.

okay? donald trump called for the death penalty for general mark milley he mocked the hammer attack on the 80-plus-year-old husband of nancy pelosi. he's called repeatedly for the summary execution of shoplifters. he has endorsed murders, he has asked vladimir putin a view days after vladimir putin launched his genocidal war against ukraine, he asked vladimir putin for help against joe biden. can we stop here. these stories on earth 2.0 would have dominated the year's headlines. this would have been disqualifying moments. they would have been wall to wall coverage and yet, as i go through them you might go yeah i kind of forgot about that one because the news media, again, i think if you

ask them you know, this is not normal you know that right? and yet, we still pretend that it's normal or we pretend that it's reasonably within the range of normal politics and as you watch theolitic actually if you blink think, yeah it's 1996 all over again, or it's when in fact we are seeing this amazing transformation of american politics. and i know i'm preaching to the choir here, but we are not sufficiently alarmed by this. and the media -- [applause] >> and again, i don't want you to be despondent. i want alarm, but not despondent about all of this, but to understand exactly what we're up against. and every time you hear the ho and the poll. this is like we have a primary election. here is election night as if

somehow we have not broken something fundamental. so i only got about halfway through my list. donald trump, remind ourselves, he incited an attempt to overthro the government. and that's like number three on the list. he as the previous panel mentioned, he has openly called for terminating elments of the constitution to restore him to power. just take that story. how many front pages were devoted to that for a week? you know look i think the questions about joe biden's age are legitimate i want to say that. if joe biden stumbled off air force one, he would receive more coverage than any single one of these stories and i think that's part of the problem. so in the last week donald trump basically said that he would abandon our n.a.t.o. allies and invited vladimir putin to invade europe if

people didn't pay their n.a.t.o. dues which of course doesn't actually exist. after the murder of the conscience of the world, donald trump was unable to come up with any comment because he was too busy hawking golden tennis shoes and then compared himself to alexei navalny, which is obscene. the problem is that we have this banalty. so much bç-- and when he was campaigning against nikki haley and mocking, where is nikki's husband? he's doing what you were too afraid to do to go out and put on a uniform and again the

country. [applause] >> was that a page 14 story or anything? we keep going through all of this. he has made it very clear that if he's elected president, he will pardon the rioters who attacked the capitol who beat beat up police officers. now, again, i know i use the phrase too much i'm old enough to remember when republicans claimed to be the party of law and order and claimed to back the blue and here he is i'm going to stand inidarity with people who literally beat up police officers. how is that not a consuming news story? how every day, do we go without having republicans in congress shown a picture of somebody saying would you support pardoning this person? do you think this is a genuine american hero? and i haven't even gotten to the fact that he paid off a star or

that a federal jury and judge said that he raped a woman. you know somebody asked earlier today, i think it was-- dressed this does vladimir putin have on donald trump? what more could you have than stormy daniels and e jean carroll. and the republican party says yeah we're okay with that. the question was, is the media going to get 2024 right? no they're going to continue to go hey, maybe we could have a town hall meeting with donald trump. we'll have a -- we'll ask -- this will be a ratings get for us to do. we will cover both sides as if it is you know a reasonable moment politics. and again i don't know what the right answer is i want to make it very clear, except that you know that you have to call lice.

you have to not turn your platform over to someone like this and you can't pretend that what's going to happen in my hometown in milwaukee this summer is like a normal political convention when the cult gathers to anoint donald trump. so i'm sorry, that was a somewhat long answer, but-- . you covered a lot of ground good ground. >> i gave the short answer. >> that was the short answer okay good. >> so a lot of things to jump in on there. one that i'm particularly interested in when i hear you talk about the responsibility of sort of what i hear you talking about is really the legacy sort of mainstream outlets. i mean i think a big problem is this siloization of the way that we consume news. so many americans aren't even watching these networks to some degree. i mean to lot of degree some don't watch them at all. they're watching news max or watching tucker carlson on twitter or andrew tate on

youtube talk about god knows what. how is that happening? you've kind of been in conservative media eco systems back when it was normal. is that a problemfix? is it addressable and is it just going to continue to get worse? >> i think it is likely to get worse before it gets better. what i wrote my book about how the right lost its mind in 2017 i was pessimistic, but it was way worse than i thought because this silo-ization has accelerated the incentive structure in the media, to silo off people in safe spaces so that people don't talk to one another. i don't see that's going could change. if you understand the business model of right wing imagine meth dealers, the only way you

get ahead is stronger than the next block. you ramp up the outrage and ramping up et cetera if you back off from that you run the risk of los your audience. that we're seeing is the audience capture. i know there are people who think if we just get this to fox news or did this it's not always top down. sometimes it is, but a lot of it's bottom up. these are my people i have to follow them. the heart wants what it wants and they're captured by the audience which is demanding the harder and harder and harder stuff. now, the really bad news i'm afraid is that if you step back from what is happening right now, and i want to talk about the-- we spent the last eight years going, you know why is this happening? why do people believe this sort of stuff? when is it going to go back to normal? it's not going back to normal.

in fact what's happening now, i want to remind you, what happens in this society where people become isolated alienated from one another, bored, when all the mediating institutions of society fall away and we're all in these times, in these silos, and the understand that all the out rages that i just mentioned about donald trump that may be 40% of the country that doesn't know any of it. that will never hear of it unless i don't know unless there are ads on the hall mark channel or something that tells them this which is not a bad idea by the way. and i think i've told you the story how, you know as a contributing talk show host i assumed that people got both sides of the story, we were the other side of the story, by

2016 it was obvious you could not push back against disinformation or fake news if it was outside the silo they don't want to hear it. relatives or in the community, how hard it is you have a piece of fake information, how do you refute it. the answer is it's irrefutable. we're going through a period of real tectonic change. i don't want to compare what we're going through now, say to the black death or to world war i or the depression, but the reality is the world has changed. world has changed globally we're not alone. there have been dislocations that are taking the pandemic changed a lot of things. anyone here that imagining that we're going back to the politics of the before times, i think, and i think maybe that's why we're all so shocked all the time. because we think that we understand this politics is like this if

a-happens, b will happen. so we go. what are we the crazy ones that it's not happening. but the problem is that that world doesn't exist anymore for millions of americans and we're going to have to get used to this. it's not something i 2024. >> so i mean optimistic optimist discussion. i'm just tracing forward that arc that you're sketching. i agree with it i don't think it's reversible. i don't think we're going to wake up and everyone's going to get their coffee and watch meet the press and we'll have nice monday morning conversations curious what the people in this room what citizens and consumers of news and information and citizens that like you say, you know they coach their kids t-ball kids with people who are getting a completely different narrative about the world that we're living in. how do you break that cycle? because at the end of the day,

we can't address silo-ization with more siloization. i don't know the answer and what people in this room can to to address that problem. >> you're right, that point, you can't not fight siloization with more siloization. and i know there are some people who believe that the response to all of this is for those of us that look at donald trump, see what donald trump is doing, you know watch this this mad rush toward extremism and radicalism and say, the only way to fight this is that we all need to become liberal democrats now. okay? we need to fight the tribalism by all emphasizing our tribal loyalty to the other side. i understand this argument. it's dangerous because this country needs two rational political parties. from my point of view.

this is my point of view the most important people in politics are the people in this room right now. the people who are center right in the center the people like liz cheney peo kin kin kinzinger, people like mitt romney we're still believes republicans, we're not authoritarian. >> we signed up for a party, not a fascist party. those who determine the election which are the swing voters maybe half a million voters in seven states in wisconsin and so those people are conservative or have voted republican may vote for republicans ticket despite what i may tell them to do, but who say, donald trump is a bridge too far. he's not normal. he is an existential threat to american democracy and we're

going to bail. if we need basically, no really we'd like all the policies of the liberal left and we are not concerned about the attacksn liberalism coming from the left. look i mean the distinction that we've made and i've borrowed it from others is that there is an attack from the left and a liberal attack from the left and liberalism of the right. the liberalism of the left is like long-term cancer. the liberalism of the right is like a heart attack immediate. call 911 to deal with that, but don't pretend there aren't any problems. don't cut yourself off, silo yourself off from millions of americans who are fundamentally decent people and you know you asked the question yeah you do it you show up. you know you go to little league you go to you know t-ball, you go to soccer and you know what you notice about

the people who are standing around? they're not crazy. they may be on some weird facebook page, but this is the thing-- and i will admit, this is the thing that makes me take the crazy pills. these are people who would never tolerate this kind of children's coaches, from their baby sitters, from a co-worker. they teach sportsmanship, they teach desensy. they want others to treat with respect. and when it comes to the presidency they're willing to set all of that aside. so for the optimism. this vestige of fundamental decency, that you get them away from you know the way i would do it is don't start by talking about donald trump. start showing that you share their values that you understand them that you don't hold them in contempt.

and then once they realize that you are like them and that you care about the things they care about, and then you can move to the others. you start at the top line you know how it goes. you've had that conversation right? >> you start at the principles. >> yeah. >> exactly. i want to kind of switch gears a bit. you know. i think in another, one of the other panels they talked about mike gallagher resigning recently making that decision obviously, paul ryan stepped down before him. you know good, you know principled conservatives that basically just said i'm out. i'm out of here i'm checking out, i'm done i don't want to put up with this. and i'm curious, is there hope in wisconsin? are you still out there? do you think those guys will be back? should we expect them back or do you think that you know they've just kind of accepted the state of the party?

>> paul ryan's never coming back so no. and i think in some ways that's represented an alternative direction for the republican party. i know there are some people that believe that donald trump is a logical extension where every republican was going. i don't think that's true. one of the things i've been doing lately walking my dogs a lot more often lately. i actually got a couple of audible books listening to all the collective columns of let's say a charles krouthammer and an to listen to that and say, yeah this is going to lead to trumpism. the understanding of history, the american values specifically the american values and rule of law. to your question the story about mike gallagher, you're familiar with this iassume. a young, bright congressman

from wisconsin, one of the rising stars, had to make compromises with maga disappointed as they all are. but you know in the last two weeks, he said i'm not running for reelection i'm leaving. i think there's a larger pattern in terms of the wave. what happens with waves? waves always break sooner or later. something that can't be staying forever doesn't last forever. the republican party is in the process of eating its young. its y. if you're a really bright young guy like a mike gallagher or fill in the blank, look at the list of people retired recently these are people who say, i don't want to be part of this anymore. you know i'd like being a congressman not if i have to sit in the same room with lauren bobert for two years, and matt gaetz and if you're an

a young republican and want to get in the next do you have to do? think of the crap sandwiches to to swallow, the rings you have to kiss and litmus test you have to pass. how many of the bright young republican men and women, saying no i'm not going to do that i'm not going in. someth my life. look 30 years from now-- 10 20 years from now. what is the bench of the republican party going to be looking like? what is the younger generation going to look like because right now, donald trump is dominant in the republican party. maga is in complete triumph, but the prices think about all of the people self-deported, self-selecting themselves out of that political party and i think that will have consequences for a very very long time. >> we've got a couple of minutes left. and i want to offer, maybe, a counter narrative of maybe the next four to six years.

suose, you know i'm of the view that trump's grip on the republican party is not really rooted in any sort of policy agenda. now, he hasn't convinced everyone to abandon their ideas. it's not really an ideathing. it is the cult of his personality. the fact that there aren't many strong leaders to go up against him in the party. he railroaded all of those people out and like this big charismatic, yeah i'll say it he's charismatic, agree with him or not he's got charisma and personality that resonates with the voters. >> i really don't get that, but go on. >> you but it's enough to capture the voters. it's enough to capture the voters so it's like a big hot sun in the middle of a maga solar system that keeps all the planets revolving and i think one counter narrative could be when that son sun is gone

when you take it out of the solar system it's going to be crazy, marjorie taylor greene vivek, who knows what he's doing. it's chaos, when there's no leader no person that can fill those crazy shoes that he has created. is there a -- and where does the party go? i don't think it goes back to reagan. if you're in that narrative, what is the conservative movement after trump looks like if someone can ever possibly exist? >> that's an interesting question. because that would be a hell of a moment when he leaves. it's not going to be a snap back, but it's going to be what i think some have a plastic moment in history where you have the hinge point where everything is in play and a short period of time you can have really really dramatic choices. so you know from the highest level, i would say, look this is going to be a maga-like party for a long time, but one caveat today, so it is

saturday. and haley is going to go down carolina south carolina and they'll say, see-- >> i would say the debate takes place right now over the future of ukraine is going to be one of the decisive debates. republicans have shown a willingness to cave in on virtually everything else. they may cave in on this not naive about that, but right now the more traditional conservative republican internationalist point of view it's an endangered species. an,b endangered species, but it's not extinct yet. if there was a vote in the house of representatives, if the 5th string speaker mike johnson would, when he comes back from vacation you know find a paragraph in deuteronomy that tells him could have a

vote the vote would be overwhelming. i think there would be 300 votes, bipartisan votes for the aid to ukraine. you saw that there were 70 votes, bipartisan votes in the senate. so there is still a very live issue and so i think there's a possibility that on some of those wedge issues there's hope that you're going to push back against trump. that's why i think this debate about ukraine is going to be so serious. also try to think ahead what happens, what is the next step going to happen because the story of donald trump and vladimir putin is not going to get any better. it's not going to the election cycle is not going to make things calmer. and so part of the difficulty of making these predictions that you're talking about is we don't know the level of chaos that's still coming. you know, always glad to see harry dunn up here, but every time i see harry dunn you know the police officer who

saved the capitol, one of the genuine heroes of january 6th, i'm sorry, that january 6th was a dress rehearsal. does anyone in this roomnk that donald trump will graciously concede defeat in 2024? anyone? what do you think the aftermath of the 2024 ele it's not going to be like anything. so we were shocked after 2020. should we be shocked at media, is the question preparing for that? might there be another assault on the capitol? might there be outbreaks of political violence? that's a wedge issue in the future that right now donald trump can provide cover for every sort of dishonesty every sort of immorality every incident of wink wink domestic terrorism. i am'm not sure-- there's a fairness sense of

right and wrong, i think as you watch the international stage pl out and also what might happen domestically i think there might be a pivot moment coming. >> mr. charlie sykes, thank you very much. >> thank you. [applause] pplause] >> thank you very much. >> a healthyocracy doesn't look just like this it looks like this where americans can see democracy at work. when citizens are truly manufactured of informed. truly thrives, get the source c-span unfiltered unbiased word for word from the nation's capitol it wherever you are, the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like c-span powered by cable.

>> today on c-span health and human services secretary bahsara testifies finance committee. and c-span2, the senate is back to consider the nomination of hankens to be the u.s. ambassador to tatty and later today, vote to advance the nomination for the 4th circuit court of appeals and at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span 3 emergency management officials testify on wildfire preparedness and efforts before the senate homeland security and governmental affairs committee. you can watch our live coverage on the c-span now video app or online at c-span.org. >> sunday on q & a. columnist rob henderson, author of trouble, talks about growing up as a child in the u.s.

foster care system. the hurdles he overcame to become successful and what he learned about class division in america as a result. >> just shy of five years, and there's this question of why does the system work this way? if a child is in one place for too long it can create issues loyalty. so if a foster child is with one foster family for six months or a year and they become comfortable and devoted to this family and suddenly the family member returns, often the child doesn't want to leave, so the system has frequently placing the child in different environments such there is never any potential issues with devotion loyalty or conflict between foster families and birth relatives and i think maybe it sounds nice in the abstract, but offers a lot of instability and a lot of

difficulty. >> rob henderson with the book 8 p.m. eastern on c-span's q & a. you can listen to q & a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> nonfiction book lovers c-span has a number ofasts for you. listen to best selling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers on the afterwards broadcast. hear wide ranging with people who are making things happen. long conversations that feature fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety