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said the senate foreign relations committee will come to order. although the hemlines may be focused elsewhere, they are still battling to defend their homeland against russian troops. they are fighting not only for their country and on the frontlines against one of the world's most dangerous aggressors. on the side of those headlines united states and europe are standing with ukraine. on the other side is the network of american adversaries, working to undermine the ideas of rules-based international orders. two of the most dangerous and brutal dictatorships in the world iran and north korea, have joined forces with putin to support russia's war effort. i've ran by building factories in russia pumping out new drones north korea by sending positions

to help putin rearm his forces. this is a war of ideals. ukraine is fighting for freedom and the right to choose their own destiny through democratically-elected institutions. russia is not only fighting to racing the ukraine nation as we know it, if putin succeeds will be turning back the clock of international law around the world. the stakes could not be higher. with time of the essence that want to thank her witnesses for appearing before us today. i know that each of you and your teams are doing incredible work in the face of very challenging gcircumstances. i hope this year and provides a chance to talk about why russia's war of aggression in ukraine remains an urgent and dangerous threat to the united states security interests. the partnership between united states and ukraine is so critical and why the senate must pass supplemental funding for ukraine along with israel, taiwan and others. the supplemental funding will

strengthen governance and anticorruptionot assistance that will improve the resilience of our economies and our energy supply. it will support efforts to come out at the other side of this war are ready for ukraine to join the eu and also nato. with this investment in ukraine goes far beyond its borders. by degrading russia's military capabilities we are also degrading the capabilitiesbi of those who russia works with like iran, hamas andd hezbollah. we see these actors in concert, not a nice solution which is why we need to consider the whole supplementalco package. providing this funding is not the case of assistance for charity. without any american troops on the ground ukraine fighters of russia's weaknesses and failures for continued funding is vitally important for our partners, our allies for reaffirmingtn america's

leadership. more of the biden administration has been very careful with the american taxpayer dollars invested thus far in ukraine previous person on the ground in ukraine are focused on oversight including three inspector generals. lastly investor franke told "fox news" no american provided assistance including security assistancenc humanitarian assistance or budgetary support can be used for anything other than its intended purpose. finally helping ukraine strengthen america's credibility with our allies. issuers -- insurers are partners where reliable stand by their side when times get tough and to put the united states on the right side of history. defending liberty and sovereignty of ukraine in the face of brutal unprovoked russian aggression. to her witnesses i hope you will tell us your thoughts on the importance of passing the supplemental funding request. the urgency of passing that and

importance to the united states security interests. i'm optimistic we are going to pass the supplemental. i'd like to hear what you think. i look forward to your testimony and let me turn it over to my friend and colleague. >> r.thank you very much mr. chairman into the witnesses i thank you. we have an important job in helping everyone come together on this issue to do what's right for the american people and for a national security but it's important for this committee and the american people to fully understand how russia's war in ukraine affects america's security. this is different from simply making the case for supporting ukraine as it fights for freedom. this is a balancing matter that all of us who work in national security must work towards. we are not and we cannot be the police of the world on the other hand it's also important that we always keep an eye on what's

happening in other countries particularly countries friendly to us and the ones who enter into defense agreements with us. it's incredibly important. we all know there a number of wars going on in the world. we are not participating in the vast majority of them that we do have two participate when her national security demands it. i hope her witnesses can tell us about the realities on the ground in ukraine and what a russian victory would mean for america's national security and economic prosperity. i hope we'll talk about our defense agreements on the importance of those defense agreements and the alliances that we make and how those alliances affect ouran national securityct and our reputation affects how those defense agreements are carried out. there is global competition for power and influence. russia and china are trying to weaken the united states and are intent on dominating the w

region's chief europe the middle east and asia. in that name i hope you witnesses can lay out the linkages to hamas and hezbollah and the deepening ties among russia iran and china. it's more and more evident that her enemies are working together against united states and our allies to have the same basic goal to undermine american leadership and eliminate the basic freedoms that help the entire world prosper. israel highlights the connection between these actors. it has allowed more than $80 billion toto flow from china to iran for this money iran has used not to help the people but to finance weapons given hamas in russia. russia has helped iran improve its drones and missiles they bought in her offer to equip

hamas but we can't equip israel without confronting these release rallies. sadly big administration thought it could embrace iran failed to to -- with no impact on efforts in ukraine and russia. no wonder iran felt free to send weapons to russia. chinese purchasers of the iran oil and russian gas help both countries circumvent international -- and increasingly we are seeing growing alignment between these actors and multilateral meetings and they present themselves as a credible alternative to the west.ib administration should connect the dots and synchronize strategies with such connections that have been lacking in recent years. i've been asking the administration for some time to give details of its goals and supporting ukraine. the american people deserve this and yet we haven't heard it. we need details in recent. i hope to hear a frank assessment of the successes in

billiards on the russian s ukrainian sides the military capacity and it needs of both sides. we need to paint a clear picture of how and what ukraine needs to win this war and explain the presencepr of requests for the supplemental package and hugs designed to address those needs and helping achieve it. i've been very satisfied with the quality and the level of oversight that we the u.s.el government have had with her atu cream.. i am however very much unhappy with the way that has been not. just go to american people and i hope you will talk a bit about that. members of this committee held a meeting with the inspector general's who laid out for us what they have done since the beginning and their efforts are incredibly welll done. corruption with u.s. dollars will not be tolerated. detailed information gives me

confidence that our money is being used appropriately. the ig is provided that information a through technology and approaches to oversight have allowed the us military to maintain unprecedented layers of accountability for weapons. thee inspector general and idefense department have been open with this committee about their investigations and we should all thank them. the united states takes grave risks in the world is becoming more dangerous. we are seeing multiple threats to u.s. national security converging and in the case of russia and ukraine there is no plan and if there is one it's long past time we heard it. i sincerely hope you will fully address these concerns in your discussions today. >> let me thank senator risch. i hope you can take from our opening comments the two of us are committed to do everything we can to help ukraine and to provide the type of assistance and leadership to demonstrate that not only in ukraine that

the international community so i look forward to working with senator risch and members of this committee for actions to reflect that objective. we have three witnesses today and i want to thank each of them or their public service and their commitment to what they do and they are extremely engaged and spending a great deal of their efforts to help america and we thank you very much for that. your entire statements will be made part of the record unless these summaries within five minutes. let me introduce you an order in which you will present your testimony first assistant secretary for european and eurasian affairs james o'brien the assistant secretary o'brien assumed his role last month the sanctions coordinator at the state department. he's a former career employee of the departmentnt receiving numerous performance awards and. with previous administrations as special presidential envoy for hostages in the balkans.

he is a long successful career and is allowed him to hit the ground running. t next assistant secretary for energy resources geoffrey pyatt. no stranger to this committee career diplomat. pyatt has been in his current role since december 2022 and served as u.s. ambassador to greece in ukraine and has held numerous leadership positions throughout thepo department and has won numerous awards. a third witness as assistant administrator erin mckee who serves in the bureau of europe and eurasia at usaid. prior to this position she was u.s. ambassador to the salmon islands and is a member of the senior foreign service she served in numerous leadership roles throughout usaid and the embassies abroad the book for her u.s. government career she developed private-sector experience including throughout the former soviet union so we'll

start with secretary o'brien. >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member for the strong statements of support. i'll try to address for questions that i hope will lay the framework on what we are discussing today and provide some details. the first is why ukraine and i think you have begun to touch on this. ukraine is a place on this cutting-edge of freedom today. since world war ii, americans worked for the range of freedom but also stability on the european continent. this is the base from which we work around the world along with our allies in japan australia and new zealand. this is the billing as opposed to the 100 years before we took a separate with the instability of forced america into two world wars. it's also aboutt standing up for core human values. these are just lines on a map.

ask the citizens of bucha about the torture and human rights abuses are the children stolen from their parents in the areas where seeks to -- so we feel it's very important we work in ukraine but but this is also the core foundation of american strength around the world. the coalition that we are leading with regard to ukraine that is the basis from which we'll confront threats to the international order where the emanateio from the european spae for the end of pacific space going forward. if we turn our backs here we are turning our backs on those who wouldr confront us around the globe. secondly how does what we are discussing now help ukraine when? other settings may be classified settings we will discuss military tactics but to be clear president putin is now playing a waiting game. he thinks if he can wait for our elections are for ukraine to get

tired he can then survived so as secretary blinken said today what we need to do are several things at the same time but we need ukraine to continue fighting and thrive while the war goes on and to soften russia's hold on parts of ukraine so that when the decisive battles come they are able to fight effectively. how do we do that? the supplemental we have proposed goes through the end of our fiscal year in the fall of 24 and since ukraine up to try through 2024. it also provides an answer to the all-out war that putin is waging against ukraine. let me just offer one example. this is around the black sea and crimea. ukraine has through its own ingenuity and with weapon set up and provided clues and russia's grip. russia tried to blockade the ability of ukraine to export but now ukraine is startingde to export more medals and this is enabling it to pay for more at

selfridge's to few numbersrs as they go through this. ukraine is hoping to get about 8 million tons of grain and medals fell to the black sea over the course of the next year. if it does that it will provide about fivewi to $6 billion more for taxpayers than it has now. that helps to make up the shortfall that are supplemental will cover but it also then provides employment for millions of its citizens to work with ukraine. that is a path to victory where we help ukraine by providing assistance to have its energy grid strength and air defense over its employment sectors in the export routes it needs so it's able to fight the fight the long-term to hold russia off thereafter. the military assistance of the supplemental is about $45 billion that goes to acquire american equipment that ukraine will then use to pay for

american service people to support ukraine and to pay other countries to acquire american equipment after they provide equipment to ukraine. the direct budget support we provide to ukraine enables ukraine to put all of its tax dollars to support the work could ukraine pays for about 60% of the cost of this war right now. the direct budget support pays for hundreds of thousands of educators, first responders, firefighters and health care professionalshe to work with ukraine. that's what the supplemental does. who wins if we don't do that? president putin says if we walk away ukraine in a week. as you both mentioned in your opening statement president putin has hosted hamas recently in moscow in the present of the dprk enisa visited china. that's a coalition who wins if we walk away. next question is who is with us?

we have more than 40 countries. they provide much more assistance to ukraine than we wdo. it's about $91 billion to our 70 billion so far for the posted post of 4.5 million ukrainian refugees at a cost of around $18 billion in a proposing another $50 billion in assistance just from the european union. that too isis with us at our foundation for global reach and that's who we had to stand with as we go forward. mr. chairman or make a member i've always been taught if you leave on the job is half done till had to go back and do it again. right now ukrainians are willing to do this job because it's in their territory. if we abandon them, then somebody else is going to have do the job later and it's likely to be us so we'd rather confront russia and its destabilizing attitude right here, right now and we can finish the job of the supplemental that we have proposed for your consideration so thank you and i look forward

to questions. so thank you for your testimony. secretary pyatt. >> chairman card ranking member rich members of the committee thank you for your pretended discuss the importance of continuingcu the united states supports ukraine. foron over year vladimir putin s try to break p the will of the thukrainian people are attacks n infrastructure seeking to achieve iranian drone strikes and civilian targets and what russia's troops have failed to achieve on the battlefield. in response working closely with their g7 partners to private-sector mentoring groups we have worked to help ukraine keep the lights on and houses warm ensuring putinseva to weaponize is a failure. for ukrainete this coming winter promises to be even more challenging than the last. ukraine energy workers have

worked day and night to restore the heart and the grid and generation facilities often by parts from elsewhere. the closest spare parts have been consumed and russia has resumed its bombardment of power plants and refineries including just this morning in eastern ukraine. during the november 22 ministerial in bucharest secretary of state blinken launched a new coordination g7 plus states to mobilize and coordinate broad support for the restoration of ukraine's power grid. since then my team picture of energy resources has convened more than 40 meetings with this group ator various levels inclue three chaired by secretary blinken. we mobilized resources to repair s the damage identify partners d equipment that will be repurposed in reached out to b manufactures and government the needs identified the ukraine. since february 2022 thanks to

congressional action entire supplemental senate site states that multiplies $520 million in energy sector funding led by college that usaid the department of energy guide states that deliver thousands of tons of critical energy sector equipment. some of which was installed and operating within hours of delivery. their g7 plus partners have done even more, providing hundreds of millions of dollars in energy related assistance including repairing equipment power generators and support for heating. the european commission and its partners have managed the complex logistics chain and successfully delivered over 7000 tons of equipment to 35 countries. we cannot let up now. the world bank is estimated after last winter ukraine needed it least $411 billion to rebuild its infrastructure. that was eight months ago.

every day the number number grows. electricity grid damage along amount to $10 billion in 2022. ukraine's economic future dependse' on investment by the private-sector and energy is key to unlocking recovery. the recent appointment as secretary prisoner as president and special representative for ukraine's economic recovery will intensify our efforts in this direction. american energy companies like halliburton and ge have been active partners in this effort providing vital equipment and actively exploring future commercial opportunities. we are working together to build the better future with ukraine modern cleaner with more to centralize power sectors integrated with era. even serving as a power exporter to the european union. another friend of putin's war against ukraine has been his manipulation and cut up the energy supplies.

that effort to have failed thanks significantly to the european commission's rapid response through its repower eu package and usc corporation to through the energy security task force and her energy council. after the full-scale invasion u.s. lng producer stepped up to serve supplies as her allies turned away from russia as an energy source. since 2022 u.s. a exporters that supplied approximately 90 million tons of energy, three times as much as the next largest supplier. last year 70% of u.s. lng equipped to year. europe shift away from russian energy has happened much faster than predicted for marks a permanent shift in the national energy map. the probation of ukraine has laid there that russia willas never again be used as a reliable supplier of energy. this shift will result in long-term losses for russia inis terms of both its global energy influence in future energy

revenues. this has huge implications for country that has historically relied on oil and gas revenues for 45% of its projects. on the sanctions but we continue working with a leading energy supplier and expansion of russia's future production. in some the energy -- is working to is working to congress continued support is vital to u.s. interests. putin is targeting ukraine's energy infrastructure because he sees it as central to his war. the energy sector funding included in the nationaler security supplemental is therefore essential to ukraine success on the battlefield could appreciate the opportunity and look forward to your questions. senate thank you for your testimony. appreciate it. assistant administratore mckee. >> thank you for the y invitatin to speak today about our ongoing efforts ino ukraine.

as you stated we are at a critical moment with their partners by adding for survival and our adversaries seeking to exhaust their will to support ukraine's vital needs. since putin began as full-scale roll -- for the people of ukraine have presented resilience in the face of c the brutal unjustified onslaught for the crime is for the criminals and traders to the people of ukraine withd unconscionable atrocities including documented evidence of war crimes such as conflict related sexual violence including gender-based violence against children women and men. human trafficking and other abuses. russia's forces have ripped ukrainian children from their homes and orchestrated in a systematic effort to forcibly transfer children to occupy parts of ukraine or to rush itself further subjected to probe russia indoctrination in many cases military training. ukraine is outperformed all

expectations on on the belt that we understand there's concern for how long the war may take and i want to reinforce our assistance to ukraine history beence ukraine's ability to withstand russia's aggression and strengthen united states partnerships to ukraine and the other european democracy under threat from accompany usaid is providing humanitarian and early economic recovery assistance. combined with direct budget support were supporting ukraine's recovery from a full-scale invasion and helping ukraine return to financial independence. in response to thehe immediate crisis usaid has provided nearly $2 billion in humanitarian assistance to ukraine's since every 2022. the generosity of the american people has supplied emergency health care agriculture and energy support to ukraine's most volatile population. thanks to the congressional preparation to usaid disbursed reliable direct budget support to the ukrainian government

along with unprecedented levels of oversight. this enables first responders health care workers teachers and others to continue their vital work and sustain ukraine's economy and institutions will they defend their country's freedom and sovereignty. to respond to russia's weaponization usa the lunch the agriculture resilience initiative to keep farmers afloat. usaid works closely with the private-sector to improve ukraine's energy security and transform ukraine's energy sector to modern approach side-by-side with our agriculture and energy efforts helping ukraine increased jobs and generate revenue. without continued funding for this economic development in embattled ukraine will remain dependent on donor support. atat this time there's no fundig left. without further appropriations the governmentec of ukraine woud need to use emergency measures such as not paying critical

sellers which could lead to hyperinflation and severely damage the war effort. usaid has all its supplemental humanitarian assistance for additional funding is critical in the face of what remained. if congress does not approve the supplemental funding our partner organizations in ukraine to capture either reduce the number of people getting humanitarian assistance by up to 75% or suspend our programs entirely. while her urgent priorities to fund the humanitarian needs the of the people of ukraine usat looks to the future to building infrastructure and institutional support ukraine's path to a european union integration. for decades -- accountable governance the diocese continues to help ukraine carry out judicial reform institutional transparent financial systems and response to people of ukraine zero tolerance for

crime. but we have achieved together wouldat have been possible witht the generosity of congress and the american people. for your bipartisan support we are able to deliver consistent ally for lifesaving assistance to people in need and leverage and mobilize the support of our partners and allies topa do the same. we now face a critical crossroads. it is vital we continue to do everything in our power to avoid the disastrous consequences of unchecked aggression by the kremlin. but the siege people of ukraine are fighting for the country's survival. they are also fighting for basic needs such asta food, water medicine electricity. putin must not succeed but we must continue to support the people of ukraine in their fight to try to do a free and secure and up in a country for democracy rooted in the rule of law and a place where all have dignity human rights and the opportunity to reach their full

potential. thank you and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you for your comments. we will start a five-minute round. i want to start by just saying what i said in my opening statement my strongest support for this present supplemental support for ukraine and i think we should have passed the issue not waiting getting it tested your testimonies here point out the urgencyss of those dollars r ukraine to be able to have the military assistance it needs to survive the winter and plan for the spring and be prepared for the spring. the testimony of administrator erin mckee point out the desperate need to have civilian order the country if they don't have the supports necessary to maintain basic services the ability for ukraine to defend itself becomes more challenging because of the global circumstances. i recognize that.

let me just point out if you have that europe and the hecoalition partners are contributing more than america is contributing in total dollars paid they are taking on the burdens of the displaced individuals. they are doing more on the are doing,or than we so tell me the challenges the supplemental is delayed. we were told on october 1 through september 30 when we didn't include the atu crania send a terrible message to the international community. i know many of us are unable to get the aid included in that and made personal phonecalls to our allies and ukraine's let them know they were not forgotten and we intended to bring this up as early asng possible. we are now looking at the bever 17th and it's becoming less and less likely we will complete this will mental by thatat date.

tell us how this impacts ukraine and the international support for ukraine to further delay the united states congress in passing the supplemental and how that is being played by mr. putin in russia secretary o'brien. >> thank you mr. chairman. a couple of elements are critical. three weeks ago i was ale secretary spending several hours with president zelensky. the first thing he noted was people need to know that we continue to stand by them. they know this winter will be difficult and as the ambassador pyatt mentioned that he ably remain with them they come strong and willing to fight. and our allies need to know that we are with them painting union is currently considering a proposal for 50 billion-dollar-year-olds and

$60 billion over the next four years of support for ukraine. if we fail to provide the assistance that will call into question for them whether their efforts will be enough and whether they should go forward. for our ability to help administrator mickey has indicated we have already the money that has been appropriated. secretary austin has spoken about the need to get additional funding for the military assistance that is needed and where brought back to president putin's prediction that this may end in a week if we walk away. that is what's at stake on thelk supplemental. >> mr. mckee you mentioned usaid's role here. i was impressed by president zelensky's commitment to root out corruption even during the war. can you tell us how important the supplemental appropriation is to further president

zelensky's campaign to deal with corruption in thisen country? >> thank you mr. chairman for your question. we have witnessed not only directly and in the courage as they fought against kremlin forces but they have not skipped a beat in advancing their rep for agenda. the eu report just came out this morning and both ukraine and moldova and other countries received support for continuing open talks. that's because their support to strengthening and deepening the institutions citing corruption in ukraine have received the top rating from the president. they had to pass and make conditionality on their direct budget support and did so without blinking. while they are fighting a war and fighting for their survival they are one of the% dedicated to ensuring that political

economy model as they inherited it during the soviet union the soviet union dismantled which reflects the will of the ukrainian people of ukraine people want to see accountability and consequences in the government of ukraine is stepped up with our support to do so. >> secretary pyatt your testimony was encouraging that lng imports particularly. you see those trends increasing because it's encouraging to see the policy that many of us have been urging looks like it's taking hold. >> mr. chairman i think you are exactly right in one of the real success stories amid the tragedy of this war is europe has turned decisively away from it in dependence up until 2022 on russian 2 gas in particular. i see that as a permanent change. a it's reflected in the billions of dollars in european countries have invested in regasification facilities. it's reflected in the contracts

american lng producers and it's also reflected ing europe's renewed and double commitment to accelerating the pace of energy transition so ironically putin's weaponization of this energy resource has induced europe to break its vulnerability there and i think that's a permanent change in zelensky and also positive benefit for american energy. producers are on the energy transition. >> i have additional questions with regards to russia and iran. i've a feeling my colleagues want to ask questions. >> thank you mr. chairman. instead i'm going to focus on a narrow vein here but an important one.. an issue that's incredibly important which congress is not informed and i hope you can help us get through that. i want to talk about the nuclear

reactors we have in the united states which reached 95 but would he tell the committee pleasese wear it do they come to operate these facilities? ranking member about 20% of the fuel that operates or nuclear fleet in the united states still comes from russia or the president has included in his latest supplemental request for $2.2 billion to help rebuild the richmond capacity that we need here in the united states to end that dependency and administration has stated its support for a ban on the import of russian nuclear fuel. >> i was hoping that would be your answer. not only to this committee. also intelligence and energy and senator barrasso and manchin and i introduced the -- security

act. are you familiar with that. >> i am ranking member. >> i think that will go ath long way. we are also working on the bandage indicated. s it's stunning to me we are sending money to russia to buy nuclear fuel when we have bands in all kinds of other places that but we have two because of the dependence we have paid this is part ofh the problem with te supply chain around the world and thatea is we haven't paid attention to and we need to particularly in this very critical area. in any event what are your thoughts? we had to get this industry up and going. we need to get it going. give me her thoughts on that and how quickly can we do it and how much is it going to cost and what can we as a government do to move this along and could you talk about that please? said thank you ranking member. i could talk all day about this and i will try not to.

the importance of ukraine a country that operates one of the largest nuclear fleet in all of europe one of the few countries in europe that has the industrial supply chain to contribute to a future non-russian nuclear industry. when i was in fastener to key up i worked with president poroshenko and westinghouse to enable ukrainians to refuel their reactors with non-russian fuel. it was incredibly controversial and i remember one time prime minister lavrov called secretary carey and all the night afraid to cause another chernobyl by creating fuel within the russian reactors in that course was a lie and since then ukraine is deadly inc. westinghouse fuel assemblies into its nuclear fleet. as we look to the future across eastern europe nuclear power be a key part of those countries non-energy mix

and i would flag rank member to the crew critically important work that's being done with small modular reactors and following closely the challenge of your home state and i hope very much we can find a way forward in that regard as well because we have two maintain american leadership in thiser area. ukraine is going to be one of our principle partners because it has the workforce in the industrial capacity and theor nuclear knowledge to bring clean nuclear powerle to countries by poland that it made that choice but do not currently have the human capitol or industrial base to fulfill that requirement. >> will thank you and i hope we can all join together to move this important issue for because this is something we can and should lean on. you made reference to the smr. that's obviously been disappointing to us but the smr

will changee the world. obviously russia, china and france for that matter have all jumped on board on this and are lookingn at ways to exploit thr standing on the issue. we shouldn't let that happen. we should be the leaders on this and i hope you'll be happy to hear we have had a number of discussions as to how we can do that. i promise we'll continue. thank you for your attention to this issue is a critical issue and incredibly ironic to me that we are sending money to russia to purchase fuel when we have all these other thingsgs going n and they are using it to fight against the same ukraine. we need to stop it and the sooner we do the better. thank you mr. chairman. >> senator cardin. >> thank you and thank you for content to show strong bipartisan support for ukraine.

i agree with the points just raised by the ranking member about the urgency of making our nuclear fuel system more independent to rush into future being critical for zero carbon american developed energy source for the future bigou thank you o our witnesses. the brutal russian invasion of ukraine has been a profound strategic failure from nato instead of being divided or weakened its expanded and strengthened. as you testified there is a global coalition of 50 countries providing more than $90 billion in direct support both humanitarian direct budget support, military for ukraine oh we are the single largest donor of the contributions to the fight for freedom on the frontlines of ukraine periods generally. as you laid out russia's coalition includes folks like iran and north korea while ours

is literally the entire free world. we are at risk of failing of handing putin of victory right when he's on the verge of defeat if we do not take up and pass the president's full supplemental. minister mckee some of my colleagues that to me privately that they are enthusiastic about continuing to send military equipment and hardware to ukraine but not direct budget support. your testified about the importance of direct budget support. could you help us just briefly understand three things? what are theri source of servics that are being provided for a direct budget support and a secretarytt pyatt testified thee appears to be a brutal -- of the electric grid and whatgr would trhappen and ukraine's ability o respond in and second is to become a billion oversight measures that are needed are in place and working robustly and

most importantly how much time do we have? if we kick to send down the road a month or two or three through continuing resolution we fail to take up in advance the full supplemental for budget support and humanitarian how much time do we have before begins to really affect the people of ukraine? >> thank you senator for your question. on the first as we have noted the types of services, right now ukraine is able to spend all of their national budget in the fight. they are paying their soldier salaries and dedicated to defeating putin on the front lines. that means they don't have any resources to take care of their people and govern which is as vital to keep up the unity and the resilience of the craning people because they are all in

both on the civilian and the military side. the types of services that would be suspended our first responders that would save lives and medical care to make sure the ukrainian population stays healthy particularly children retain immunizations. we heard reports of polio outbreaks in other concerns with the mass immigration of folks fleeing the conflict. we also are supporting teachers in continuing education so they don't lose a generation as a result of putin's attacks on civilians and civilian upper structure.ti >> am i correct to support gradually goes down over the next year as the economy becomes more vibrant and ukraine is able to generate more money? >> direct -- correct. fiscal stability is vital for theno imf program and other dons

to opinion. we unlocked the other support that we have seen mobilize from the eu and other donors reducing the confidence to multilateral to be able to contribute to ukraine's economic stability which is as vital as winning the war. if their economy collapses putin wins. an appointed accountability absolutely. there has been no finding of any misuse or misdirection and of multiple tiers and multiple reviews not just by three igs in terms of checks and making sure we can follow the resources. we have third-party monitoring and assistance i wished those are delivered reimbursed and validating are also ironclad. in terms of timing we have no more direct budget support the last tranche was -- this

jeopardizes over the coming months ukraine's ability to maintain its economic stability while it continues to fight the war but it's urgent. >> thank you for your clarity to the answer let me close by making the observation that the chairman made which is the fight going on in israel and the fight going on ukraine are not the same. putin welcomed the head of hamas and offering to provide air defense possibly to hezbollah. there is a linkage between the coalitions that supports terrorism in the brutal ongoing ongoing -- and for us to pick one piece of the supplemental and not the full supplemental not toea provide direct budget support enough to provide humanitarian support andfu not o divide support to israel and continue to push them anitere and support for dozens of countries would be a great mistake. thank you for your testimony and thank you mr. chair. >> senator paul. >> it's easy to look around the world and find places where the

u.s. test -- taxpayer can send money to fix a world problem but there's anan important question was asked before we start sending $100 million more. every bit of our tax revenue goes to medicare medicaid social security and food stamps. those four programs consume all of her tax revenue. everything else is -- the entire discretionary budgets being borrowed. we borrowed $1 trillion in the last three months pretentious traits that have doubled. interest payments have doubled. this goodwillll and try to fix the worlds problems that you are ignoring the ruin your creating in your own country. mr. o'brien in russia's weekend stage it's at tempting to forget there's nuclear power but our foreign-policy decision need to take in account thein dangers we in ukraine. putin is forced to choose between humiliating on one hand

and as with the destruction there's every reason to believe that he chooses the latter. it'ser a great buildup in forein ukraine has come to a stalemate. we are trained commander in chief of the has admitted as much and graham allison few ukraine war is escalated far enough to see how bad things have become if we end up in a world where nuclear weapons are used. areson believes where we putin's russia and the western alliance it's time to search for off-ramp for all. what's being done at the state department to search for an off-ramp? >> thank you senator. if you points. i can speak to the foreign-policy implications and they believe if we don't stand with ukraine d now we will be spending much more on defense in the future. much of the supplemental goes to reinvest in the united states so

far from and ruin it where shoring up the foundations in our energy sector. >> so your argument is that warrant funding war -- >> i'm saying the supplemental is good for our economy. it's a justification for two -- the idea in this come from my side oh glory be to wars not that bad. broken countries are not so r b. the armaments industry will get millions of dollars out of this. maybe go back to your freedom argument or something but the idea that you're going to risk the manufactures armaments is -- >> senator i'm not making the argument good. i'm making the case that war is necessary. >> and we can make low profit on the side. >> no, senator thank you are

proposing a false choice. >> apec to say that her say nothing but one thing is our economy s is on based on the foundation of -- >> we are borrowing the money. they don't have a pot of money so what you're arguing is in essence we borrow the money from china sent to ukraine ukrainian ukraine sends it back to buy arms from us and it's a win-win but had we win when they borrow money? this is a false argument that it will create five jobs every dollar we spend. it doesn't make any sense. you are going from from words of productive used to basically fomenting and containing a war. >> that's a patrician part of a censure and i'm sorry you feel it that that's away after primitive payment for the choice in front of his delete of the invest in the capacity and defense and i.t.. >> it's original question let's

get away from funding the armamentsg people. the original question is what you doing to develop an off-ramp?r when i listen to presentation it sounds like it's the department of foreign i don't hear that part of diplomacy. where the drip method is anyone talking about negotiations? do you really believe that ukraine is going to push russia out if ukraine waxed they'll push tomato cry me an out of the east and zelensky's position to negotiate as they are gone from ukraine is viable and there'll had to be some negotiation? if you believe that though the meat continues and ukraine will be an utter disruption and tens of thousands of more people will die. if there is no negotiation but do you think is a superpower we would be embolo somewhat and encouraging negotiations occurred nothing from you and nothing from anyone in the administration to tell us about negotiating. >> senator i hope you would sit down and talk with me about what

we are doing in this regard. to give you a sample. all wars require negotiation and we will do that with ukraine. it takes two parties to negotiate the war. president putin is not serious about negotiating the end of the war. he saido he wants to wait to se what happens on november 24 so we are preparing for that eventuality. we have negotiations that will stick as opposed to the track record ofsoha agreements presidt putin is made with a whole range of his neighbors up until now. >> there some who say we are back where we started negotiating tens of thousands of people that die on both sides. i don't hear diplomacy. >> what we are looking at successful diplomacy but i last weekend with 66 countries talked about the basis of peace in ukraine and russia didn't show up. that again is the problem. we don't have a willing partner

on the other side and to simply say there must be talks is asking for a monologue not diplomacy. >> senator markey. >> secretary o'brien. >> center merkley. >> am i cracked the russia spending 25% of its funds on the war and the other is 1.5%? >> i think russia spending more. 30% of the budget and that the secret budget that's even more. >> in your testimony start out by talking about help putin's to defend the most basic principals of sovereign nations do not have their borders change unilaterally. dictators cannot punish countries and seek closer ties with u.s. but that states will stand up when the freedom of our hefriends and allies is threatened. i agree with all those every series of questions and i hope you'll give me short answers so they can get through them if

possible. do you agree that failure to find ukraine will dig deep damage to the atlantic alliance >> yes. >> do you agree failure to find ukraine will put into nato? >> yes. >> do you believe if the u.s. pieces put in by throwing support for ukraine overboard that somehow putin will never -- elsewhere? of president putin has made clear the once he gets what he wants in ukraine he will start looking at the baltics and he will start lookingng at poland d other key allies. >> if u.s. appeases putin by throwing ukraine aid overboard it would enhance china's appetite to use military force on taiwan. >> china will see us as weaker. >> it will encourage other

dictators around the world e to take additional land. >> yes. >> i'm struck by the parallels to the journey of chamberlain to munich to say okay you can take czechoslovakia and he declared peace in our time and somehow this was not what appetite. does that strategy worked? >> no. >> will be strategy on depending on a crane to appease putin were? >> no. it will create aggression.ba >> is one of the most important decisions we based in probably the most importantwi decision. our colleagues who supported the corrupt government in afghanistan and the invasion of iraq now want to bail on the freedom loving democracy defending people of ukraine who are dying with the cause. i must say i think it will be

one of the biggest foreign-policy mistakes we could make in generations if we bail in ukraine. do you agree with that? >> yes, i do. >> if there is an emergency supplemental in which the funding for ukraine has been thrown overboard, should be passed that? >> we have asked for this united supplemental because it's one fight globally. >> so we should reject that? >> i think the senate should pass the full supplement. >> will president by available funding of ukraine? >> that's ultimately the presence decision but he's asked for the supplemental he believes should be passed. >> we encourage the president ty veto the bill in which money for ukraine has been thrown overboard quick. would encourage the president to get the full supplement to any. my concern is a repetition of what we saw earlier when we

faced a continuing resolution whichh the senate is slow. takes a week to get the built in foreign takes a week to get the amendment but has the basic proposal in place and it takes only one hour and a house for to be put up and voted on. i'm afraid it might send us a continuing resolution that throws the money for ukraine overboard. oushould we reject such a straty from the house of representatives? >> yes, senator. >> thank you. >> senator ricketts. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you to our panel is here today about ukraine. as we discuss ukraine and we think down the road about rebuilding ukraine there's an important point to make which is the should not be done solely on the backs of the american irpin tax periods. russian begin its full school is -- a full scale war gets

ukraine and $3 billion in russian sovereign assets have been frozen globally and the cost to rebuild ukraine will be about $40 billion. i'm sure you've heard this phrase you break it you buy it. one of the things i'd like to highlight is ranking member trish's repo act that would require russia to basically pay forco the damage they have done. commonsense legislation in its bipartisan bicameral support to confiscate russian sovereign assets that have been frozen in the u.s. and treasure them to assist ukraine's reconstruction efforts. the house foreign affairs committee marked up its version of the bill yesterday mr. chairman i would encourage us to be able to get this build them but i thank you will be important. assistant secretary o'brien do you agree that russia has legal

and moral responsibilities to compensate ukraine for the damage this invasion is done to the country >> yes, senator. >> you think russia will ever compensate ukraine forre reconstruction and? as the president and his g7 colleagues in the secretary and his just today reaffirmed that russia must pay and russia's iaimmobilized funds which are about $3 billion will not be rid turn to russia until it does pay. so we have leverage in this discussion. >> putin is unlikely to pay for the damage he's done and will continue to use russia's veto power in the u.n. to block judicial mechanisms. do you agree the u.s. and her allies and partnership should considersu all options to ensure that russia pays rather than the taxpayers in the situation? >> yes, g g senator. >> i want toe encourage us to

continue to pick up this repo is a core piece of this legislation also secretary o'brien a couple weeks ago in our hearing weie discuss the dangers of the peoples republic of china involving ukraine's reconstruction. this would go againsts their interest and our allies and partners. it would involve collecting intelligence on ukraine and military capabilities as well as intellectual properties. with do that in ukraine and its track record of corruption and undermined the rule of law will -- fail to fight corruption in our own country. given the reconstruction efforts there will be a temptation of ukrainians to take money from beijing. the party scene and there were reports last mont' the ukraine has excluded the -- from building infrastructure.

ou deputy minister said the u.s. and their allies did not provide official proof of the security risk associated with prc benders in his result ukraine were tapped to give the contract to lowest bidder which would be huawei or cte. a couple weeks ago you said you felt confident we would have the ukraine in our camp and it's their choice but that's wailing to extend the game from a financial standpoint and it's our choice with regard to assistanceo in beijing could yu think we should condition usa to prevent u.s. tax dollars from supporting controlled entities from providing reconstruction >> senator we do. that's why it's so important to have the supplemental so we remain in the game and as you said the conditions that make it

impossible to pay illegitimate contractors like the chinese and my colleagues can speak at some length about how energy telecoms and other sectors we do exactly that. if we are not there we can provide the guarantee. >> i want to go back to something the senator was talking about earlier with regard to putin's next steps if he's successful in ukraine. you made a reference to talking about the baltic sea and overt statements that these are renegade state. thats sort of thing? >> yes, yes. >> thank you very much. >> senator booker. the existential nature of a rare right now is something that can't be understated if we do not rise to meet this moment in united states of america. from china to iran people want this nation to protect our democratic ally. failure in this moment could

have a catastrophic cost of only two roses continued territorial ambitions which they have made clear but also china and iran as well. i want to thank the biden frustration for putting being are in charge and focusing on reconstruction. i think we have a little bit of historical amnesia about how critical that is to preserving democracy. years before the end of world war ii, years before we began work on the marshall plan and we saw after wolves were to a country that have been devastated by war are very susceptible to the whims of extremism whether it's fascism or communism that undermines the ability of governments to sustain themselves but i think we are at that moment right now we are discussing reconstruction at this point is so critical because investments made now are not only important in the war

effort. saving the ukrainian people going forward. i wondered there seems to be a lack of understanding that the supplement to resources that are being debated in congress right now are critical investment not just winning the war effort put into helping for the critical long-term reconstruction. according to mr. o'brien if you could speak to the urgency not just a supplying their military with resources but the urgency right now both in the immediacy and the long-term by this supplemental is critical investment that will pay dividends for the security of the strength of victory that we are looking for in ukraine >> thank you senator. i know each of my colleagues have a piece of this as well. i think that's very well said and what we see in the integrated supplemental request is an effort to address each part of what's needed for ukraine to thrive during the war

and to be prepared to succeed after the war. right now if we provide the air defense that's needed the economic industry that dried ukraine's economy we can begin to work again. the best hope for ukrainians. tax dollars to go to make up the shortfall that we are currently meeting with our partners on the direct budget support. if we s can then create the spae for the energy supply to be reliable a than we have employmt and ukraine's economic activity working. that's what ambassador pyatt is working on for their $2.2 billion to go to both the energy supply and the economic activity that's needed for ukraine to begin to repair its access to the outside world. it's also important to us. when russia invaded crane, grain prices went up six times in many places around the world because

ukraine is an incredibly important part of the global grain trade but the work that ait does to help ukrainian farmers get their productsra to market in the supplemental the $100 million will help farmers get their product to market. all of that strictly benefits the markets. if we do all that and ukraine's estimates in my statement if we can get them to her prewar export level and an extra $6 billion a year in tax revenue just on exports as well is what the industries pay and the society. secretary society. secretary her and she should come in and testified this herself. she's doing an outstanding job of building a strategy that will focus their efforts in key places so ukraine's economy will begin c to work and contribute o the global economy even while this war is going on. all of that work together to

make sure ukraine can succeed and has the leverage needed when we get to the negotiation of senatorau paul wants. >> and my second left is so frustrating to me to see that people don't understand the essential to winning the war is invested in this space in if you listen to the craning people and those that i've talked to they are looking for resources to strengthen the democratic institutions for their energy sector their nuclear secretary and anticorruption efforts going on right now that are critical and governance reforms, modernizing and diversifying key elements of their economy. without this, we cannot win and being pennywise and pound-foolish as to undermine and ultimately the war effort and effort to win peace. yes or no, do you agree? >> yes. >> thank you.

>> senator schatz. >> thank you chair by should think your being here but i want to start with a basic question for secretary o'brien and i don't want you to overdodo it. i want your blunt assessment what do think the that connections are between russia andd hamas? we have seen an unwillingness to to -- as a organization. i believe we are in the fight against global fascism but that doesn't necessarily mean they have operational ties. give me the real scoop on how closely they are aligned right now. >> i think their details that are more suitable for another venue. president putin sees hamas as a way to distract us and to weaken the coalition that we have built against him. his unwillingness to condemn

what hamas bid october 7 in his unwillingness to use any beverage he might have to get them to say moved out of gaza so it's not the subject of the bogus that it is now is a sign that he prefers to see us distracted by this fight and he prefers to see hamas as the second front against us. that's the connection that's the most troubling. >> if putin is successful do you think and fail to understand he has additional territorial ambitions. my question is if the successful does he deepen ties with some of thesecc organizations because hs now got some new capacity on having won the war. that's what we are really talking talking about here. we don't provide funding that could be it. we hope we provide funding and we hope if we don't somehow

ukrainians and the europeans and everybody else will draw it out the hat. we need to be clear what we mean to for a second time vote no on the supplemental with israel only or do a cr with no hope of the supplemental but i went to understand what putin will do next if he wins >> you want instability around his borders so if ukraine loses he will promote instabilityy in the baltics and around eastern europe across the black sea. he will also reach into africa and theso middle east where we e him already. he will try that anyway but he will be much more powerful. >> thank you. mr. pyatt how were we managing the energy infrastructure question? obviously putin is trying to weaponize civilian infrastructure against the people ofw ukraine. what can we be doing?

>> the most important thing we have done is mobilized our allies and partners around the world. united states has provided significant assistance. i was in kyivwa in december, the week the first tranche of the department of energy sourced hardware from the united states was delivered to poland and then onward to ukraine. there was a profound sense of relief that the calvary had arrived. since then as i mentioned both the g7 plus coalition and our g7 allies and key institutions to mobilize assistance and to listen to the ukrainians to source the stuff. to give an example one of putin's principle targets last year reduced high-voltage transformers which connect the nationally craning grip its objective was to fracture the grids and allow ukraine to billet to move power around the country. we have worked with japan.

we have worked with to source the auto transformers and equipment that putin is destroying. we have a lot in the pipeline and we face a plight chain challenges to their aspect of the senator if i can for a minute on your question to my colleague assistant secretary o'brien i was ambassador in ukraine and the occupation of crimea happened. i remember vividly working with many members of this committee. i remember sitting confidently that would keep them busy forota decade. that was not the case. two weeks later i had a code bill that i was posting and i remember distinctly senator barrasso and senator kaine were coming to ukraine to donetsk to the capital g of donbas and that code bill that trip was scrapped at last minute because russian supported forces had become coming in.

his objective is the dismemberment of ukraine and ap successful that effort he will then move on to the next target. i fully agree with my colleague jim but also would underline the media tactical relevance of what we provide in the energy sector. summit was plugged into the grid in a mattero of days. the ability to continue to do that kind of procurement is directly linked to the resources that are part of this emergency supplemental. >> in other words we need, this money for ukraine to get through this winter and set aside the defense and offensive capabilities in order for people in kyiv to not freeze. we can backstop whatever mischief he may be doing to the grid. >> on ranking ranking member brescia' point in connecting the dots the greatest threat to the energy grid today are the shahid

drones which russia is beginning to industrialized and we can talk about that and classified setting but there's a direct iran russian nexus in the attacks in ukraine's energy system. >> thank you senator schatz. i would like to bring the conversation back to what i think we talk about a lot. sometimes we forget the human cost of this war. last year and met with a group of ukrainian women soldiers in one of the things theyai said to me i have repeated multiple times since that meetingme and that is, give us the weapons to fight the rations so the united states doesn't have too. i had a chance to meet with one of those young women again. this is adriana.

some of you may remember her when she was in washington a couple of weeks ago. she was driving in a civilian car on the frontlines front lines of war because they didn't have armored cars. she hit a russian anti-tank mine and was temporarily paralyzed. as you can see from the photos she some time in recovery, 9 months. she had to relearn how to walk -- he said to me when t she came back to congress she's planning to rejoin because she's committed. we had a really fun exchange about ukraine's father which is freedom or death and how she could identify with new hampshire'ss state motto which s live free or die. ukraine is fighting so that we don't have too and people are dying to make sure they can be a

free country that is not occupied by russia and they are fighting for democracy in the united states and around the world. the united states i believe needs to continue to support this effort because not only is it in ukraine and nato in europe's interest but it's in our own national security interests. senator schatz i think was asking about the nexus between russia and hamas. secretary o'brien can you talk a little bit more about what that nexus is and how does the u.s. respond of putin's war in ukraine to serve the broader national security interests ofes not only defeating russia. deterring iran in beating back our other adversaries? >> thank you senator and there

was no one more eloquent than a ukrainian fighter talking about her commitment to her country. as i said in my opening statement this is about the foundation of freedom and stability that the u.s. has 80 years building. ukraine has, after a feud decades of fighting itssp way as an independent country, unequivocally made theaf commitment that wants to be a part of that foundation. the rest of the world looks at us and asked, are we have ready to take this opportunity and bring 35 million talented people into the space that will help us as we move forward over the next decades? if we say no to that they will judge us as having turned their backs on the world and not

caring about other places that also want to be part of that foundation. it will set us back decades and i think it will make all of the commitments that thousands of americans made starting in the 1940s, if we miss this opportunity. >> thank you. i certainly share that. assistant secretary pyatt i chaired a subcommittee hearing on the importance of the region. can you talk about how russia's actions will specifically affecting europe's energy potential and what can happen as a result of the vision that woulds allow energy from central asia to come to the black sea region and supply southern europe say first of all senator

thank you for your strong focus on the black sea region. you're exactly right, this is at the energy map of europe today. one thing that will be true whenever this war comes to an end the center of gravity in europe will shift to the south and east. the black sea becomes vitally important and the redrawing of the energy map around the black sea that's taking place, romania's investment in the support to develop its offshore wind industry in a black sea. the new pipeline infrastructure that i've been involved in supporting throughav multiple js in the southern gas corridor to bring gas from central asia to european consumers. the investment that we have made to support new pipelines linking greece to the countries the western balkans to allow them to

break their 100% dependency on gazprom. what's happening this region is of vital importance in the end significantly impeded by russia's occupationruoc in crims a military friend that russia has presented to the black sea and an important aspect of that which affects american companies is the pipeline which goes from kazakhstan to bring crude oil by chevron and exxonmobil into the black sea which is vulnerable to the conflict that russia has brought to the region. as i look in this global responsibility thatt i have tody i had to think about the geopolitics around the globe. it's of critical importance and we are fortunate to have strong allies. i've been to bulgaria, turkey and romania three times

precisely because of how important is to shape the energy geopolitics of europe and the wider region. >> thank you very much and i agree. senator murphy. >> thank you very much and thank you to all three of you for being here today and your interest in supporting an independent sovereign ukraine. i don't understand the case that our republican friends are neplaying with ukraine in this existential moment. we are at zero hour respecting ukraine's needs. i wantaiai to pass comprehensive immigration reform is badly as anyone.as to hold ukraine hostage to unlocking that difficult not as dangerousto. i'm there in good faith trying to listen to my republican friends to try to get a path forward here.

this is really one side of the equation to support ukrainian needs. and i hope you find a path to get ukraine assistance it needs. the other side of this equation is what we can do to make it harder for russia to be able to sustainn this level of operatio. i wanted to ask both of you ambassador pyatt and ambassador o'brien about how russia's long-term prospects look to be able to afford this war and what the united states can do. here's a note, russia started outspending 4% of gdp on military endeavors. the budget for the upcoming year will have them spending 6% of gdp under their military but that puts him in the top five of the entire world in terms of the percentage of their economy dedicated to the military spending. number ones on that list is ukraine which is sending 33% of

its gdp to the military. but the iaea rejects the russia's share of locally. oil will be 50% by 2030 and their net income will fall from $75 billion to 30 billion. you are spending% of your gdp already and you have the potential to catastrophic fall coming in oil and gas revenues. that is one of the things and may be the primary factor that may push russia to the table to try to drive the conclusion to this conflict. so whatt can we do as members f congress and how can we support efforts to continue to make it harder for russia to finance this war and how much of that is dependent on our allies in india and their adversaries in china

and i will stop there and ask you to enter that q quickly. s both here in the united states but alsoh globally as a by the administration is done through the inflation reduction act to reduce the dependence on fossil fuels for the other aspects of this is what we are doing systematically to reduce russia's future revenue. just last week for instance we level new sanctions against a project in the arctic. which is nova tech flag ship project which it set in motion with the aspiration of the largest exporter in the world. our objective is to kill that

project we are doing that through our sanctions. working with our partners in the g7 andtn beyond. the other aspect of this goes back to its hunters point about the black sea how we work with the countries that historically dependent onn russia energy but have been paying into the kremlin's resources. the not quite successfully in europe we need to keep focusing on the asian front proved that to the price cap coalition is important to recognize the price cap has worked in its dual objectivese of reducing the kremlin's revenues while also keeping russia crude oil on global markets in order not to destabilize further a global energy market the kremlin has profoundly destabilized. let me invite jim to add but. >> i completely agree with what jeff has just said. i will try to focus a little bit more in the future here.

russia is losing its lucrative markets. that is what got it rich enough to afford this work. it is losing out in the sectors of innovations are going to drive economic development in the future. so we look at this and say does it put pressure important to get h to the table? yes it does is going to take time to start of the worth 640 billion and a rainy day fund. at the start of this year despite record profits last year he was down around 580 we mobilized 300 of that he spent down further fromm there that gives them a year, it may be two years of a run room on the rainy day fund that all came from selling oil and gas. so that is gone. the second thing is we do not see russia able to play in these sectors that are going to drive innovation and economic growth into the future. the areas of quantum mechanics, artificial intelligence, the

energy transition including the new nuclear technologies that are coming on board. and senator your workbe on thisi really appreciate because russia entangles countries and these long-term networks of corruption with a generation long contracts we are now competing for those again and taking the sectors away from russia. that changes the long-term prospect from what it was. the results of all of this we anticipate russia gdp will be at least 20% smaller by 2030 then it would be a putin had not started this war. it is a long term strategic loss for him and it creates a great opportunity for us in a number of important sectors. >> thank you. senator ron s holland? quick think it mr. chairman and thank all of you for your service and your testimony i just want to underscore the chairman and others have said so that all of you know. this is a moment of truth for the congress and for the united

states. in terms of the urgent need to continue to support our ukrainian friends. they are losing lives and give blood the least we can do is provide military assistance and as all of you indicated it is important in itself to protect sovereignty and democracy in ukraine but this is also a much broader challenge. if we do not go forward with the continued assistance it will undermine the nato allowance at other european partners we all know other autocrats around the world like a president xi are watching very closely as he keeps one eye on taiwan and it would send a terriblees messageo our allies in the end of pacific. japan, republic of korea and everybody else. this is really a critical moment for the congress. and i want tote thank all of you and the president for his leadership on this.

ambassador, thank you for your service in greece. and as you well know you worked on this. one of the key facilities that was built to help supply us-based lng to ukraine and others in the region was at the port so i thank you for that effort. i do want tok pick up on senatr murphy's points with respect to the oil price gap. i am a big supporter of it. it was an innovative approach by the president and our allies to put this price cap on russian oil and the impact as you said has been to reduce russian oil revenue. atticus oil revenues are the primary source of revenue for russia and its war machine. but i do want to talk about further implementation and enforcement of the price cap. reuters reported russian oil and gas revenues more than doubled in october.

just last month compared to september. a so it doubling revenues and the reports indicate russia is using a shadow to help avoid sanctions and also raises the question of the extent to which we, the united states and our partners are really enforcing the prized oil cap if a revenues doubled in one month could you speak to that please? thanks senator. your y question in the data you put on the table illustrates the challenge that markets will try to find a way around these things. the work that we do with the sanctions coordinator at the state department working closely to keep turning the screws is absolutely critically important. it's of critical importance. that is why we recently delivered sanctions against two shipping companies who were found to be operating outside of the price cap notwithstanding.

that is why both the treasuryav and the state department have been intensively engaged with shipping operators and insurance providers to encourage high standards of scrutiny that are part of this process. i think i would also highlight the importance of the dialogues i have hadad personally with key ship owners and ship operators and shipping countries in order to highlight our resolve to continue putting a very bright spotlight on activities that are brushing up against the edge of the price cap. fortunately the vast majority the global shipping fleet is publicly traded countries often times with headquarters that are housed in a london or new york so they are extremely sensitive to the kind of scrutiny the u.s.

in a price cap coalition allies can provide. but we knew todo keep an eye on the shadow fleetup the growth of the shadow fleet and the reality of what was up until last year a fairly homogenized global crude oil market has now been bifurcated into two channels. >> thank you if i courtesy my time is running out. thank you we have got to keep the pressure on. my last question relates to the reconstruction efforts. we had scott nathan the head of dfc before this committee not that long ago. as you don't we took opec and tried to beef it up into the dfc. but one of things apparently left behind as opec allowed much more easily available political insurance the way omb scores at the dfc that was not the intention intention was for that to be more robust are you aware of thiss issue and can we fix it so when it comes to getting more investment in

ukraine under politically and other risky circumstances we have all the tools available. >> thank you center for your question and yes i am aware and i do know they carry political risk insurance which embedded war risk insurance identified as one of the constraints to mobilizing new investors. in addition we are working very closely to ensure this access to finance and capitol other key drivers of growth for those companies that never left ukraine including american companies in the agriculture sector the it sector in particular as well as energy and other key areas of opportunity and i know the secretaries working closely with scott to make sure we do all we can collectively do help buydown some of that risk and make those tools available we can seemed like the economic growth necessary but. >> i just understand the way omb is scoring this is handicapping efthose efforts. q and so i look forward to following up with all of them a question for think it

mr. chairman. >> the cute senator rubio. >> thank you offer coming in. it's my personal belief i've tried to make this argument three challenges of what's happening in the south china sea and the taiwan straits, what's happening with iran's desire to build a regional order centered on tehran and what's happening or what putin is done in ukraine with those three things in combination any one of the three holds the real risk of escalation and worse. that will determine in my view of much of what the rest of the sentries going to look like. it is in that context up to analyze what's happening in ukraine don't be frank about our problems. the argument for god may grant number of people let me tell you what i hear. people come up to me and say the following. we have five or 6000 people crossing our border. got other needs running up this enormous debt and now we got to help israel paid was stopped to build up the military why is

ukraine important and that contact i hear that can't say here that a year end a half ago wanting to do more. you hearor people not nestlé fas of vladimir putin. it's unfair to say people have questions are somehow pro putin. these three challenges are definitional for the rest of the watered years of our century. the trade-offs are going to have to happen will make policy decisions because one of the risks we run is being overextended. i understand i'm not critical. we have to stand with our allies i am not diminishing any of those things but those arguments are too vague. they make sense here but i'm telling you they are too vague at this notion we need to do whatever it takes for however long it takes is alsoho misguidd

that's not going to be enough of people asked these questions. i would just say if you have the opportunity any of you three or all of these three essays a theo many come up a week ago at saint wire was still putting all this money inth ukraine? i hate putin i hate what he has donene what we've got all these other things domestically and in other parts of the world that are more important including china and outs happening in the middle east, how are we going to be spinning $60 billion every six months? for how long given the debt we arty have. what would you say to them? how would you explain to them this fits into the national interest and that perspective? >> it's really well framedt senator. i will do my best here. i think the first thing i would say she got to shore up your own base. if we are going to confront china over the next decade 1.4 billion people that's looking to write theit rules the world economy will run on.

we go at them with the coalition of 50 odd countries. europe is six -- 700 million of that we are 350 million with that already we are set to compete really effectively. ukraine though is a challenge by putin trying to fray that foundation. so if the short that up if we are going to have the hest to compete with china over time. that battle over ukraine also allows us to reinvigorate our own industrial base we are create new technologies and putting them in place around the world we are building new defense technologies the work being done and it. all of that is included in the supplemental and that's going to make us a better able to defend taiwan to work on the south china sea then we have otherwise. the final point i would make us isthis is the wrong time to its arty take about half the territory putin sees since 2022 2022open up the black sea graink that putin tried to shut down in

july did that most is its own creativity a whole set of interesting drones and other technologies that are going to contribute to our security as a ukraine gets closer to nato. those are all reasons you do not walk away when you're partway through the job. >> i would just add in thank you for the question it was well framed. my dad asked me the same question why are we supporting ukraine question the answer iti gave him if we don't, american leadership is unlocked the alliances and mobilization of all support was seen. number one we are not alone, we are in this together. and number two if we falter in our support, russia will win. and they will bet ukraine. we have been able to support their economic assistance humanitarian assistance and security assistance without having our own soldiers on the ground.

we want to do everything we can to prevent that from happening. click senator duckworth? >> thank you, mr. chairman thank you all and for the witnesses appearing today. it is good to see you again so soon. after our discussion with the recent hearing senator shaheen conveyed on the black seat regional security i also had the opportunity to meet withon penny just last week and yesterday i sat down with the ukraine energy minister as well. all of our conversations focus on bolstering economy today can give them direct returns in terms of their gdp and more immediate revenues to get them on a stronger path of self sustainment. even debt doing active or bottom on this a lot of work to be done but a lot of opportunity here. moving quickly to pass a supplemental support package is necessary to capitalize on that opportunity but i feel the sense of urgency particulars we approach the winter months and anticipate increasing threats to ukraine's energy sector. they mention to me last year

there were 300 direct hits on ukraine's energy sector a grid or a power station or something like that. certainly they anticipate even more drones being against the power system. i want to associate myself with my colleague and i also appreciate your testimony about the united states leadership and insupport of ukraine's energy sector. i would love to give you a chance to chat about how important ukraine is to that region in terms of energy and what it can do going towards the future. i sat down yesterday and talked at length with the minister of energy their leadership role and a nuclear at their ability to develop nuclear technology in particular with american firms like westinghouse, what romania is doing and all of that. i would love for some of you to speak to that. and how it is important to make these investments now because

they can contribute toward that energy future the clean energy future. >> thank you center for the question. i think you framed it very well. it is important to recognize ukraine is not a charity case. economic development terms it is an opportunity. developing that opportunity depends on restoring a level of peace.oi but as we look to the future it you're going to have europe which is decoupled from russian energy supplies which means there's a whole of about 13030 per year in energy supply europe is going to have to fill. over the short term some of that is american lng that's a very expensive option. has fantastic resources on wind, solar, biomass it has second largest nuclear industry. it has developed and demonstrated extraordinary technological acuity. look at how clever ukrainian soldiers have been in the

application of satellite drone technology. these are the skill sets ukraine will need as a member of the european union. my colleague referred to the statement european president delivered today welcoming the significant progress ukraine has made on his reforms her and the commission's determination to move ahead with ukraine succession to the europeanan y union. and i would say is someone who served as an american ambassador in the eu for six years, what ukraine represents a demographically young population a population is fantastically committed to the values of the european union, ukraine is the only place in the world where people have fought and died under the flag of the eu. for the values that are represented in the european constitution. the investments and that leadership the secretary is

providing to help our companies and companies around the world begin to make plans for the day after and to work with the ukrainians to keep pushing forward the reforms which are fundamental to treating theh environment were american energy companies renewable energy companies can come into ukraine we can use ukraine to help fulfill the huge challenges our global supply chain faces. in the soviet union ukraine is the centerme of soviets petrochemical industry. all of those skills are still there. you talked about nuclear ukraine has a company which is one of the few facilities in all of europe that has the industrial capacity to produce the largest steel enclosures that are part of building model moderate nuclear reactors i applaud your focus on this and i know i speak for all three of us and how systematic we areay focused on trying to layha the foundation r

the better future the ukrainian people so richly deserve. >> thank you i'm out of time. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator menendez. >> thank you. secretary o'brien maybe you could work with me going through a series of questions here some rather brief answers. isn't it true that our support of ukraine avoids the need to risk american lives in a larger potential european war by denying russia to send forces into nato allies? >> yes. >> isn't it true the impact of ukrainian defeat would be far tmore expensive then remaining committed to ukraine? >> yes for. >> is it true what we are doing is creating american jobs by sending funds audit modernization of our m military, replacing comparatively older weapons that we provide to ukraine that are not essential to u.s. readiness.

>> yes secretary austin was very clear about this in his testimony last week. >> although this is not our purpose but isn't it true ukraine's operation on the battlefield has exposed russian weaknesses in operational capacity and readiness which benefits the united states as we tlearn about any potential conflict against russia? >> yes. >> isn't it alsoo true this conflict has catalyzed the u.s. industrial base to set up production lines to support the united states and other partners for example taiwan down the road if necessary? >> the base of our allies as well. >> isn't it also true sheesh and paying her watching what is going on in ukraine and how we the united states and the western world is responding to that conflict? >> i imagine he is. >> i would think not only is he watching but henk is calculatin.

he is calculating and can my military do what i think they can do and i saw the much wanted russia military against at that time and inferior fighting force by size and capacity, be able to stand up to russia? he's got to be saying that to himself as it relates to innate desires on taiwan it's got to be saying that to himself as a relates to international community's going to respond at the international committee has responded on ukraine by sanctions and other efforts is not a fair assessment? >> make sense to me senator. >> okay. is it also true that the supplemental dollars much of which will be spent in the united states here and creating jobs here at home as we support an ally abroad that is a positive economic opportunity

for us but the impact of u.s. and european trade if that was the case wouldn't that be a huge thing? >> yes. >> so lastly if we were, some of aour colleagues hereto seem to want to link the critical elements necessary to support ukraine and for that fact the state of israel and to support taiwan that is all called for in the supplemental. they want to link it to things that have nothing to do and cannot by force take another countries territory. there are consequences what would the world say if we walked away from ukraine if we said

enough will be the consequence of that their judges weaker and foolish for walking with my ldtremendous opportunity to buid the o alliance that brought us here. >> not only would say were weaker and foolish, who would join us if they know at some point we will cut and run? >> i think senator the question answers itself no one. >> thank a you. quick senator barrasso. >> thanks so much mr. chairman. i just want to ask after listening to senator menendez weaker and foolish. in late 2020 when the state department sent an interim international energy engagement guidance to essentially barring the u.s. government support for future fossil fuel projects. this could affect terminals and europe currently it would be receiving u.s. lng. shortly after the cable went out putin's armies invaded ukraine.

it is astonishing to me the same administration that issued this foolish anti- energy guidance refused to impose on the pipe on before the war it seems like the administration would sanction american energies, because the policy outlined in this cable still remain in effect? >> senator the energy engagement guidance remains in effect. i would also note geopolitics of energy after february 2022 looks different. the united states is now the world's largest lng producer. we are going to retain that status for years and years to come. europe looks to the united states for its energy security. largest market for market lng. 70% of our lng exports last year help europe escape its dependence on a russia so that landscape has changed. i would noteat also the energy d guidance wasn't drafted with

carefully defined exceptions including exceptions both for humanitarian development reasons and geopolitical reasons. that's a lot of the work i do and make team does is thinking with those geopolitical arguments for. >> .thank you. i regret it still remains in effect i would love to see it eliminated. i want to talk about ukrainian children. while the biggest victims of russia's unprovoked war are ukrainian children. since russia's invasion of ukraine the worldwatch russian president putin from orphanages, tax schools, shall children's hospitals, that is not enough russia is abducting, transferring and forcefullyou adopting thousands of ukrainian children they are just taking away. she pledged to coordinate the ambassador of ukraine and i met

with ambassador brink last week to document and expose these horrible practices. ambassador tracy also promised to get these children back to their parents. please update me on the status of these efforts. >> think it senator for your question. i would agree wholeheartedly the most tragic victims of the conflict are ukrainian children who been forcibly ripped from their homes andnd homeland. her working close of several organizations to not only connect those dots that it bassett or tracy and brink signal to you that we are committed to we are documenting and insuring the follow-up to return to them if they are member to some family who can be identified through dna testing and other tracing elements as well as ensuring the pipeline if you will from

russian occupied territory back into russian and other places is severed as quickly as possible. that requires courage and bravery on those inside those areas to identify, stand up for sharing the names and locations with us. so id can't in this setting she it with you a significant amount of detail but i can tell you we are laserse focus and i know ambassador o'brien the state department and are also focused on this terrible collateral if you will of putin's aggression. >> to a general range of how many ukrainian children they may have helped reunite with their families at this point? >> ought to get back with you with that number. >> setting what you can in terms of what has been established. you cannotan go to all the specific details can you talk a little bit about the system that's been established to document and expose the practices by russia? >> we have a network that started before the invasion i'm basically access to justice it's legal aid clinics.

vethat network employed about 20 attorneys we had seven sites. today we have over 22 with over 70 attorneys providing legal advice and guidance geosphere their childrenne have been taken as well as create the file that accountability and prosecution take place for. >> this is mr. o'brien and counteroffensive fiveon months o ukraine launched a counteroffensive against russian forces. since then the gains at the front line have been limited positive buted limited. success the battle for the black sea all is not been discussed much today. what iste for to be moreve successful and what strategies have been most effective in pushing back russia? >> certainly a military briefing a classified setting i would say two things. ukraine has one back 50% of the territory russia took since

february 2022. the second piece putin is playing a waiting game like many rulers before him. so it is difficult to get a decisive battle. but we need is in the supplemental the ability to fight this fight over some time. we do see real success. in the black sea russia attempted to stop ukraine from exporting. in julyio exports were down two- two and half million tons they are already more than doubled and expected to see them go up substantially more. that is because of what ukraine is done with this technology and its new weapon system, more of which would be provided by the supplemental. thank you. senator risch. >> thank all of you for your service. i appreciate it, a good message that you had here for us today. if i can send one message back to the administration and that is this thing can't go on

forever. there's no question about it. patience will wear thin and uh it's not a good situation. i've been an advocate from the beginning about uh giving the ukrainians everything that shoot short of nuclear and the administration has always responded with, oh, we don't want to escalate. you've got to escalate. if you don't escalate, you're going to lose. >> if you don't escalate, you'e eventually everything i've asken attacks and i want to see the message and i want to be the win and move it as quickly as we can. >> the directive will remain open till end f business for tomorrow for questions and ask that you respond friday's legal holiday w. that and thanks again for everything you've done for our country. and for being here today, the hearing will be adjourned.