things like oklahoma were of course there's a large native americanal population. and you talk a little bit about what all this is going on simultaneously what do we see going on in the lead up to the civil war? dating back to the american native because that becomes very important after the civil war. >> well, as i said, during the 18th centuryth most of the south even though the preponderance of the population was steadily becoming more and more european and african, and indigenous population was declining, even after the american revolution, well into the 19th century, most of the south was still claimed by native people and so occupied. what you see though from the type essentially the constitution is signed in 1788, and up until the first two or three decades of the 19th century is an increasing

pressure driven largely by the federal government as well as speculators and privateers to acquire native land and dispossessed native people from their homeland. .. cially under andrew jackson, is a sense that native people, for their own good need be removed to, make way for white settlers and for the expansion of cotton. the scot is talking about the indian removal proper. best known, better probably better known as a disposition act. there committed to moving indigenous people so from georgia, florida, the carolinas, from arkansas people moved west

so when it says is good reason to head south, it's a big reason god be the case. >> with one observation we tend to think about violent disposition of native americans especially in the west and tradition of western movies and smiles it depicts but the bloodiest war against american indians. there are three of them so the violent occupation of florida is very much part of the story of the modern self. >> i think one of the themes we work isbout in your this idea of expanding the

concept of who is in this case so included in this book is very different than history than would have been included 50 years ago. ipthat process and the scholarsp as well so work but also a reflection of many of the things for quite some time, can you about how that has been expanded and where you see that going forward? >> i certainly think the definition has been transformed over the last half-century and i would call it no pun intended or revolution in the study of early south. when i was in graduate school, the center of colonial

scholarship was still in the mid atlantic. there is wonderful scholarship, to speak they but that was seven solution. there's a particular focus on early american history that excluded large parts of theth south in addition for the 1970s posters to be a large body of scholarship host black women, indigenous women in the american south prior to the 70s, count on two hands probably the works talked about women. we know so much more about slavery two years t ago is not just the definition but the richness with which we can talk

about the people we now call southerners transformed in the last 50 years. >> so many of those things, who talk about religious traditions and stuff out of new orleans, i talk about blues, cooking and its relationship to african traditions of food and feeding themselves and understanding that part of theof south means what we think about our actually interesting and beautiful about the south come from the african part of the south and where we get our actions from. used to be told as an english tradition.

on and now w' understand it is a melding of african and european traditions that make the language we talk about and music, american roots and native american roots and it's south we actually admire. much of it is we need to see bringing together all of these complicated and struggling cultural traditions. >> i asked where does the company start? it's a new orleans company. new orleans has the second-largest population in the united states and asked is the most famous associated with romans.

again this influence is brace and this interesting., >> and is really a function of this early. when the south was a place of incredible immigration and destination for immigrants from germany, switzerland, spain as well as dozens and dozens of enslaved people from africa and practicing different religions encountering indigenous people like when speaking many languages. to me that's when you about his sense of southern weakness, the

collision of these cultures was probably impressive and contributes. >> jefferson and jackson and political and everything interesting about the south, the places separated from 87 traditions, it is interesting and fascinating people. >> one of something important to remember about the south, the history of theth south, it is a sense of place and don't deny

thereac is the process but so does. >> and the french and a lot of people have a sense of place but one thing striking about seven is we tend to think about -- i mean this by african-american, indigenous peoples, incredibly migratory people so an antebellum area, ♪ ♪ americans were virginians migrating out the numbers larger on new england so southerners whether coerced or by choice populate the mississippi river valley and they are moving all the time and moving to mississippi so it is a mobile

population we tend to think of as sedentary because we think about southerners who stayed behind. forget about southerners migrating to texas and bakersfield california and chicago and detroit were it's big so mobile people adjusting to generational of people. >> we were talking how they tend to focus on specific histories and now holy city is more rich, i did you ask about history that have been, how can it be

history? i wonder about the different aspects of history, and be interested to know how the process has changed and where you find the cool stuff you read about. >> henry woodsonne grady who entered the event of constitution but only as a scholar, there's another henry grady was a railway carpenter and a site on scene this massive collection of letters to his sister because they thought he was that henry grady and it was fantastic. the only downside is you wrote on brown paper wit' purple crayon because that's what he used for measuring wood with it was atrocious, also but henry a

lady. build the south and bridgs and louisiana and mississippi said it's so small big, ugly. i don't want to be in the cells and henry is talking about how to solve is one thing : a new thsalt and the future so sometis archives will lead to people but henry a grady a working class guy, he's the one closest to the real work workers talking about the environment they are in so they are ready for a new kind of history i think. >> is for a period where the

authors in 19 creek 19th century on conditioners americans and african-americans resources are written by europeans so how can you study the didn't have those sources? that has given food for thought over the past decade and they've made great strides in recent years trying to use with does exist to uncover what they can for the inner voices and personality, it's not easy to do

the archaeology is a tool so work with what sources you can and make it all layered as possible given it's not easy to do. >> i'll use an example, i wrote my first book about leaching in georgia. when i did my research not agreed about microphone. i read 50 years of the constitution of the first page is the editorial page and post a may not have worked in microphone, you may not appreciate this.

i had to wear glasses a few years and the governorship has been transformed over the last 30 years and particularly the last few years. for example, the great seven historian woodward devoted his entire scholarship less than four pages. nobody will write a study on the length of his book but he is not a newspaper research begin witht now in in a millisecond then you

have to read the stories on newspaper.com and it's infinitely easier now than 30 years ago so we know more about lynching and attempted lynchings. the book about that but also all of these songs sung and collected they tracked 100,000

of them in the american south. those songs of our people -- if they are alive and 80, it was legal for them to read 1860 so hearing their voices, it's very hard so many become blue song are a source we can use and discover material. >> we are going to move russians in minute each of you teach so you are around a lot of people and you write books that people who are not historians want to

read so thank you, it's very well written. a lot to dig into. s you've noted an interesting tm and an interesting moment for history, a lot of disagreements over whose history is to be taught and how is too be taught and why it's important or not important to teach and what some of it actually means. i'm wondering how you see that in the classroom versus when you get out, how does this shape your scholarship? >> that's a rich russian.

there's a legislature at this moment to call students in the state. ap u.s. history influences what anybody in high school in the united states turns about american history now and yet we have politicization on what we learned and what is taught in schools. the teaching of history, i like

to have the facts on our side and if we have to engage in debates about the past, there's the decision to move around. if people talk about the history of free-market capitalism then you don't. let's talk about slavery and how it fits into free-market capitalism or railroads and what it meant for people who used to be self-sufficient to enter into the marketplace so it's going to be a longst struggle but i still think the facts are on our side.

>> since i teach in florida to see politicization of curriculum the past year or so, the question we think about all the time. one example, i just finished teaching a course on the american revolution in this controversy of the 16th 19 project that came out a few years ago and one of the contentions was slavery was an inspiration for the american d revolution itself while the claim was not new, historians dickstein 19 project along is somehow resonated with the public so try to get students to win evidence and to what extent, if any was slavery part of this

itself? we look at theke evidence and is pretty clear, not the onlyat national but was a national so the students, i had to make careerat controversy and what yu think about this and looking at arguments and counter arguments come to yourr best conclusions o if we can do that as a society, what is so wrong about this what role the state has and it can't be taught in the classroom we have too counter with an honest look atd history based on evidence and they concluded it was part of the revolution going

to go with this orthotic because i like to question about teaching and writing and to me teaching is excited and i teach 300 students and they do not fit is hot off so they got the three and the four. they will dry kick and stream. i love that, i love being the person who has to go and the can't graduate without having to history course. the job is closely related for economics and get into that job and drink yourself to death. [laughter] for you can think about where you fit in the long pass

american history. how do other people cope with the world and how do they confront the generation how will you do? i'm going to save you from alcoholism. [laughter] it is theut culmination without grubs. tobacco, cocoa so it is a drug world. a world of drugs back so trying to get their attention of engineering student would rather be anywhere else, stuck in traffic than american history class. when you get that excited, turn your head and think a little differently, there is feedback

and you think it is a good boy. to me that is the exciting thing about history, it can grow out of class and it's really good really sharprp scriptable questions that often push me and asked what it has to do with his creation so go back and look at it and think about it more so to me the exciting thing about skeptical students and teaching students in learning how to tell a story that works in we can't just tell the story, we have to have sources on our side so much of the book is like that.

these are some of the best that we kept for our classes that we decided to present so 1666 and how it is an important precursor in the transition to slavery has a lot to do with this, it is fascinating and makes you think twice and filled with observations. >> i completely agree and never a bad thing to push to show their work so it is anve opportunity to talk about things we haven't talked about before but we want to hear from you now. please raise your hand where we

can see you. >> how important oral history in your research in the book? >> i'll start off briefly. particularly in martha jones chapter, chapters that deal with the early republic, 1820 -- 1860, the slave narrative as well as martha jones interested in how black southerners are seeing themselves as residents of the region and members of

african diaspora so their voices very important and it is an organizing figure so very important voice. >> during the depression, not just for the period of slavery but talk about black life in the 80s. her descriptions of the intricacies are fantastic. >> what impacted it have on

economy and resistance to moving to chicago when employees try to move away? >> it is not my. , it is later. it's ver' important, important to understand what makes it possible which is one worker that makes it impossible in detroit and chicago to get a stream of european workers so we see them bring back newspapers detroit and chicago down to the south and a show people opportunities available and there is massiveve migration noh

but what it changes about the south is equally important, a continuous movement back and forth, much of what we think of as is, that tradition and we see a lot about -- formally we talk about lynching, 1877 to 1942 but it's red summer of 1919 that is tremendous about those part of the self so that is fresh in my mind. we see yes, sort of destruction of towns where people are

driving, as discussed how it might feel a great deal of thought in particular. >> there were definitely efforts toto stop it here georgia leavig savannah and elsewhere but the classic example american realism and capitalism work, agent come down to northern so there people and white employees in the north to get them to come north so there were subsidies migrated and etc. but black people in the

south, many were eager to get out so they found their way. >> your comment on the way in which they have distortion in constitutional law and structure not only in the south but federally and whether you think they persist today. >> one of the things, some of these are constitutional and some aren't. one thing that occurs to me, this was in 1866 when andrew

johnson is president, it bringsn in, allows southern states to reconstruct with white voters and they create a bunch of laws that make it illegal to be black in thepe city you have to papers and things like that. an attempt to prevent that from happening, he's states are not anymore but militaryil governor, this is where theye can be brought back in the states so i would argue they never went away. the things that formally said black people cannot enter into marriage is, those things are stricken but there are many other things like high fees so

relatively low amount like if you take something less than anything more than $10 as a felony in 1866 and an attempt to identify things associated black men and women. the suprememe court civil rights cases and those basically say as long as the state doesn't say it excludes black people, it's okay so this amendment still hold and you can't deny citizenship based on conservative but if it

doesn't say it's doing that but itthe effect that is perfectly fine. so it allows states tremendous power to create this and voters out. after the supreme court and civil rights cases we see understanding office being brought, taxes and what's the third one? grandfather clauses that basically says the constitution, but did your grandfather vote? there is a loophole for tax so the supreme court does we can the 14th amendment.

it's a powerful instrument when passed in 1866 but doesn't only come to the worst in the south until 66, 100 years later. >> that's my take from the 70s and 80s. >> one consequence of that citizenship for other groups that don't enjoy whiteness but also is circumscribed so you can see the struggle of the 20th century. and it is extremely restricted with citizenship developed in the south but across the country so that would apply to hispanic

americans in the southwest as well so it was segregation on patient identity as well as systemic identity and had to be corrected. >> the fact that you can't be a jury so it's not just that people are allowed to vote but jerry's the 1880s and 90s and that is very important to understand o interpretation when you're brought in, you're surrounded by white people, he collectively get on and tends to shoot their minds around the idea order and law to post

people in an effective they are notll allowed to have that aroud their peers is important to understand because lynching because of this. >> thank you all for joining us thank you for the panel, the book is new history of the american south and i hope you all read it. thank you very much and thank you to the audience and we will see you again soon i hope. [applause] >> if you enjoyed american history tv, sign up using the qr

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