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>> testament on the environmental protection agency proposal to limit so-called forever chemicals are found in drinking water. the epa assistant administrator for water also testify before the environment and public works committee about aging infrastructure and access to federal grants and programs.

[inaudible]o may call this hearing to order. we are here today to examine the plimplementation of the drinkwar waste water portions of the bipartisan structure lot. we call this historic bipartisan law is helping to deliver clean drinking water to millions of households and schools across our country. before we do not let me say how grateful i am to the panel of witnesses joining us today including representatives of drinking water, clean water as well as small and large utilities. who leads officer of water has joined us, welcome for to all of our guests we have a lot of folks i don't think we have that many photos before and the long time. what to member thehe state.

i guess rated by demonstration took a major step in addressing the presence of toxic chemicals are drinking drinking water for this announcementou some 20 yeas in the making. it's an issue that's very important as it turned out to west virginia and all the other 48 states across the country. i want to commend the president want to commend administrator, assistant administrator and all who are proposing a science -based national drinking water standard. critical step to projecting our drinking water calls for the presidents to protect our public health environment on proposed 2024 budget released last week. has budget the president request more than $12 billion for epa at 1.919 billion% increase from 2023 enacted level. more than $4 billion in the

proposal is reserved for water infrastructure. that includes an additional 219 million for grants to reduce the amount of lead in drinking water to test for and remove a lead in. and to replace lead pipes. this budget builds on the committee's work on bipartisan infrastructure law to invest in our nations water infrastructure which brings us to the topic of today's hearing. oversight of the implementation of the drinking water and wastewater portions of the bipartisan infrastructure law. as we have discussed democrats and republicans on this is not just enough to enact landmark legislation like this, andle is important to a properly implemented and we exercise our responsibility with respect oversight and that's part of what we're doing here today. work on this committee temper for water infrastructure is personal to me. we have folks hear from west virginia to join us, looked different west virginia racer

hand. if you would like to be from west virginia racer hand. [laughter] almost everybody for the record. [laughter] i work in this committee to improve water infrastructure as i said it's personal to me. rooted inre my faith in my family's history and western virginia some of you may recall matthew 25 calls on all of us to care for those who are in need the least of these to give those that are thirsty something to drink. for me this includes ensuring americans have access to clean, safe reliable water services. some of you may recall was born at home and come seven part the state. the first six years of my life we lived along the side of a stream ranking member has heard, a creek grocer called beavercreek. my sister night lived alongside

beavercreek. we play on the banks of the creek try to cut cut small fish sometimes in frogs where you were never allowed to eat any of them. nor will be allowed to drink the water from beavercreek. that is because many of the nearby septic tanks were not well-maintained for it as a result raw sewage and other pollution could seep into that creek. at the time our situation was not too different from that of any other small community in west virginia or across the country. we urge the government responded the water crisis by creating grant and later loans to farmers made easy for communities across our country to build and upgrade their drinking water and wastewater treatment systems. over time these programs languish for and were in dire need of updating. that's why i along with ricky member capitol, center corner, senator duckworth, and many other members of this committee and off of this committee joined

forces to address this need. we worked and overwhelmingly bipartisan way to draft the drinking water wastewater infrastructure act. you will recall registration aps state revolving funds. those funds are the primary vehicle for state and local governments to finance water infrastructure projects throughout america. we advance our legislation out of committee unanimously, later passing out the full senate by vote 89 -- two. the american people looking for bipartisanship, they need look no further than this committee and its work on infrastructure. this water bill combined with our committee's historic highlight legislation, highways, bridges served f as a foundation of bipartisan infrastructure for the louth president biden signed into law on november 201, 0200 by perfectly infrastructure unprecedented 55 billion at the billion with a b dollars to

improve drinking water in communities across our country and it was paid for, fully offset rate this remains a single largest water infrastructure investment in our nations history. let me repeatt that. this remains a single largest water infrastructure investment in our nations history. now, ep has responsibility of putting these investments to work for all the american people. today's hearing is an opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of how this process is going. this hearing allows us to explore future opportunities to improve the way we invest drinking water and wastewater infrastructure. that includes investing bipartisan infrastructure law programs are benefiting communities with the biggest need what additional changes might be needed for the program to function better. i like to think or do i know i can do better but spreaders were of this legislation we know we can still provide a further pray

for example there's more that could be done to adapt these programs to change our climate and in our population. and at our infrastructure. as we said earlier i look forward to hearing, we look forward to hearing from our distinguished panel of witnesses today. before we do the maternity center capitol for opening remarks. you are recognized. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman thank you all for being here today. like to thank the administrator fox for not just being here today but the lines of communication you have kept open, as you promised in your hearing when you came before this committee you stay true to your word and certainly appreciate that my perspective. i would also like to thank you for finally, after many years of me banging the gavel and the gong and also with the chair to set that safe drinking level, that's going to have many impacts across the county's certainly, clean, healthy water

is at the top of the list for all of us. so, this committee values your perspectives on the challenges and the other witnesses as well facing this nation's water infrastructure. as well as your insights on implement defectiveso solutions for these challenges. today's hearing focus on topic that's critical importance that sherman has covered much of this tolt the health and well-being f our communities, our environment. our comically efficient drinking water and wastewater systems. all americans deserve this. we deserve to have reliable affordable water and sanitation which i'm very proud of the bipartisan work of this committee, that we accomplish in the last, to address america's drinking wastewater and wastewater investment backlog we had such a backlog. the act was written by this committee it is a key pillar of the infrastructure investment jobs act.

created new programs, opportunities and support to address current waterop infrastructure needs and ongoing challenges in small, rural and disadvantaged communities. in this year end we will explore the current state of our nation's water resources. the challenges that we face in protecting them. and how we can implement policies and the eye ij a to help ensure every person has access to clean tricking water. i look forward to hearing from her expert witnesses engaging a thoughtful perfect discussion on this crucial issue. the eye i ja authorize 55 billion in funding is that sherman said the largest i investment ever for a range of water infrastructure programs including grants for small and disadvantaged communities, funding for lead service line replacement and support for water technologies as well as funding for wastewater treatment in stormwater management. these funding opportunities provide new resources to address the current challenges facing our waters infrastructure. many communities, certainly in our c state are with aging

infrastructure in need of repair or replacement while others are doing with the merchant and contaminants like that require specialized treatment technologies. at the same time small and rural disadvantaged communities often lack the resources and technical expertise needed to address tthese challenges. leading leaving us vulnerable to water quality problems in public thealth risks. i i ja programs offer a wide rae of funding opportunities to help address these challenges from grants and low-interest loans to technical assistance. these funds can support critical infrastructure upgrades including the replacement of lead service line for construction of new treatment facilities that i have actually toured some of these as i think you have and the implementation of advanced treatment technologies. additionally the funding can support capacity building initiatives including workforce development, every water system ini go to is really down on the numbers of people that are

interested in working in water, but also the retirements we are seeing across the board inoa the workforce is really putting a strain on our systems but we need help there would need help committee's bill the expertise needed to manage and maintain their water system and quite frankly we need for the next generation excited about this as an opportunity in a career of the future. despite the significant funding challenges, ongoing unmet needs in small rural and disadvantaged community still remain a concern. , as i said they lax on the technical expertise. also worked implement this program to be important to ensure the resources are targeted to the communities that need them the most. and the necessary technical assistance and training programs to support them. as epa begins to deploy the significant financial investments in our infrastructure i have concerns about how the agency iss plannig to implement some of the

directives from congress. we were explicit in our bill i think by the bite administration has prioritized environmental justice agenda. but it has not been shy to pull ipo think political factors as they are doing that that are unrelated to water quality and health. key conditions for how this money should be spent and even funding for states as it's reviewed by the agency. i'm concerned projects will be considered based solely on need, or related to the explicit statutory directives of safeguarding humanan health, keeping rates affordable and protecting the environment. whilee all of us support in powering community through economic development, it is important that we recognize federal investments in the safe drinking water act and clean water act as amended should be directed to projects with the needs are acute and in-line with the congress directed the agency to do in the statute. we should not be sidetracked from responsibly investing in her aging infrastructure.

because we have such a historic bipartisan success here. water systems do not align neatly with the ministration efforts use census tracts to define ej communities are politicizing the distribution of funds. we have run into this in west virginia and some of the definitions. congress was clear funding should encourage state flexibility through funding pots like other grant programs that should prioritize the need. funds for firewall between systems ofal various sizes to me sure rural community's, small towns and big cities all got their fair share without taking the two biggest slice of the pie the epa should implement these programs pursuant to the congressional intent which resulted from hard-fought bipartisan compromise. i am committed to work on these issues that are so important to me but citizens of west virginia in our country. i will close by saying what everyone in attendance knows, water infrastructure investment are critical to public health

environmental health and economic development and i want to see these new investments create a better quality of life. create more jobs and drive the quality of shared health benefits that we all care about but i also want to welcome in the next panel kathy emery for the great state of west virginia. she is here with her husband roy, her son taylor who goes to west virginia university. and her other son is a graduate student west virginia university as well pre-thank you, mr. chairman. click thank you. two visitors, my great, great great grandfatherun was one of e cofounders of the county it's special to having you here with all this today. the other day i was talking to someone he use these words he talked about integrity. integrity if you have it, nothing else matters for

integrity if you don't have it nothing else matters for the same i think and probably be said about water, if it got it we've got good drinking water is not nothing else matters but it's usually, usually important to sustain life. as governor i know my other colleagues to spend a lot of time job creation in their state, and their attractive business large or small is looking to locate or expand the business was interested in doing so in a place that did not have good drinking water. it is just critical to have successful job creation and really maintain those jobs. with that having been said it's time to hear from our first panel. joining us today assistant administrator for the nicest environmental protection agency office of water. in her role assistant minister to fox works to ensure drinking water is safe. wastewater is safely returned to

the environment. service waters are properly managed and protected through thank you for the work that you do, you arere recognized to proceed at this time thank you so much for joining us for a quick thank you so much and good morning chairman carper, ranking member capitol and members of the committee. i'm so honored to join you to provide anri infrastructure investment the bipartisan for structure law. and really adjusting to start by saying thank you. it really is the bipartisan leadership of this committee that was so instrumental in securing over $50 billion to invest in clean and safe water in communities across america. i also take a moment to express my gratitude to the incredible career staff at epa who are really the ones implementing this. some of the leadership from groundwater and drinking auto here with me today. s really because of their dedication, the technical

expertise, their hard work that we are delivering on the bipartisan infrastructure promised to the american people. so, let me give you a brief report on how implementation is going atoi epa. congress provided the majority of the water funding through the state revolving loans program about 43 billion in march 2022 epaou issued our srs implementation memo. that document established key priorities consistent with the legislation has really been our northstar for how we have been implementing this bill. there are key parties we outlined in the srs implementation to provide flexibility states in meeting their local water needs. increasing investment in disadvantaged communities, making rapid progress lead service line replacement,ac addressing and other emerging contaminants, advancing climate adaptation and mitigation supporting good jobs here in america.

we engaged very closely with the state as we develop this implementation memo. we have a state workgroup. that has really set the foundation for a robust partnership with the state in implementing the bipartisan for structure law. so we are about one year later. i am delighted to report that 47 states in six tribes and territories have received nearly $5 billion in the first year. that is a big number. i want to f talk for a minute about thatpl what that means for people in local communities. for example because of these investments, will be able to lift arsenic and nitrates from the drinking water for local government leaders excessive count delegate will connect hundreds of homes or regional water which also protect nearby marshes on the delaware bay and pittsburgh record to remove nearly 1000 lead pipes and low

income and working class neighborhoods for those with a couple of examples of the thousands of projects that are going to be funded by the srs. that is the real deal we are delivering to america because of the bipartisan and structure law. many touch on a couple of other highlights the bipartisan info structure law also established grant program. just a few weeks ago we s announced the first 2 billionf funding available through that in a noncompetitive basis to all of the states that want those resources, very excited about that. the bipartisan infrastructure law is also investing nearly $2 billion through the agency's geographic estuary gulf hypoxia program. these investments are so wonderful they are supporting conservation,, restoration, infrastructure programs to protect some of our nation's most treasured waters, the

chesapeake bay, the great lakes, the mississippi river basin, the gulf of mexico, san francisco bay, really quite remarkable. also working because of a bipartisan infrastructure law to ensure groundwater a safe. we are providing $50 million to help states develop and implement underground injection control classics program to support carbon capture. we have a letterav of inquiry tt process underway were states can seek these resources if they want privacy of the program we are going to be awarding funds to states by the end of this year. i want to conclude my remarks by emphasizing something that both you center capitol and senator carperha said. that is that we are really dedicated to ensuring how all communities benefit from his investment. we know there are too many small committees, too many rural community, too many underserved

urban distressed areas that have not received their fair share of federal funding. we can and we must do better. that is our focus atth epa. so, in addition to all the work to get these resources to states and local communities, we have been standing up the most significant technical assistance program. we think that is what will change the odds for communities that have not been able to get their fair share. we are actively working communities acrossve the country from west virginia to alabama, to communities all across the country. we have 29 environmentalav finae centers who are providing free technical assistance to communities that won it. closing that wastewater axis cap initiative with lead service line accelerator. all of these technical assistance programs are helping build the local communitypa capacity to make sure we are unlocking these resources for every community so that every community has clean and safe water. so, let me just end where i

began wishes to say thank you. thank you so much for the opportunity to steward these resources. it is because of congress andbe president biden that you have created a transformational moment right now. a transformational opportunity for the water sector. and irk want you to know epa is working hard. we v are working strategically o deliver on the vision you set in the bipartisan infrastructure law. we are working to make sure water funding benefits all americans no matter where they live, much money to have anr effect account for the color of their skin. so, i want to thank you again for the opportunity to serve the american people in this way. i look forward to today's discussion, thank you for a quick thank you for being here today for your leadership for the hard work that has been done is being done in the epa especially on these issues. i again we want say to her staff

sitting behind us and those were back in their offices how much we appreciate their work on these issues as well. and senator, my ranking member here i just want to say again how proud i was of our committee last week. on the hearing and the derailment in east palestine was a wonderful hearing in bipartisan and penetrating something that sets the stage for making sure the people of east palestine are treated the way we want to be treated. and very proud and thank you for all that. let me start some questions if i can for miss fox. we have already mentioned a time or two in today's hearing. but i want to return trip for epa yesterday released as we know the drinking water standard for six types of chemicals.

i want to commend you and the administrator reagan for your leadership in proposing a standard that's based in science and a standard that protects the public to the maximum extent possible. these are forever chemicals are prolific about the environment under the under president biden's leadershipde epa stock n another significant address their presence in our water with yesterday's decision. a question, came to miss fox, can you please give us more background on the standard r unexplained the next step for the agency's action in this regard? thank you for the question senator. i want to thank you in center capitol and other members of this committee that have kept us focused on getting this drinking water standard proposed. i was talking at center capitol yesterday and the two years we've had conversations i don't think there's a single time we spoke or you don't ask about this. so we are really truly thrilled to be at this key milestone.

please science on pfas's clear. exposure, even at very low levels is very harmful to human health. we also know about the science is that people are exposed to pfas from a variety of means from the air, their land, and their water. but when pfas is in drinking water we notes one of the most significantt contributors to te harmful health effects that people face. so, is to think about making progress on this critical issue for the american people, having international drinking water standard but keeps pfas out ofin her drinking water is when the best things that we can do as a nation. from a human health perspective. we are very proud of the proposal that we announced yesterday. it's based in the latest peer-reviewed science science is evolving rapidly is grounded in the latest peer-reviewede

science. it also learned of the dozen states that already have established mcl's for pfas and drinking water. as you said senator, the proposal calls for regulating six pfas. we are proposing to send mcl maximum contaminant level of four parts per trillion for pso eight and four parts for joint is a level at which we can detect pfas in her drinking water. and we have laboratory capacity to do that. we also are proposing to regulate for additional pfas as a mixture. these four are known to cooccur drinking water. gen x, ps ds,. [inaudible] anyway, also with those before we are setting a hazard index for those for pfas.

also some of the other features of the proposal we are very pleased with is the public notification requirements which is so important that the american people can know we have developed a flexible approach to monitoring and compliance recognizing water systems are in different places. the next steps are in a 60 day public comment. so we are very much looking forward to engagement with our state company regulators, local water systems, community organizations to get feedback on this proposal. and we are really working hard to get to a final rule by the end of 2023 are fairly early in 2024. so again i think this committee for your wonderful leadership. pfas you're welcome it's a shared responsibility. as you know, we are also in multiple committees one of my committees is having a business session right now, they need me there for a quorum.

i've askeded center capitol issd present in my absence she has graciously agreed to do so and to keep annoyance under kramer and my absence, i know it's a big job. thank you for your response to my question senator l-uppercase-letter be back as fast as i can. thanks so much for a quick thank you, assistant minister to fox you and i talked about this yesterday on the phone. this is a bit in the weeds. you came out several months ago or maybe a year ago with what was called a health advisory level for pfas which were so low they were unmeasurable. systems were unable to measure as to what the epa would say it a health advisory level. you come back no safe drinkingyk the mcl which i am really pleased that we are here today to talk about that, at four.

and it is significantly higher prthan what you previously said the health advisory level would wobe. so i ask this question, how to debase what was his science for these health advisory levels? yesterday of the day before 1800 page response from you. and the epa which was e difficut to go through. it had a lot of attached reports and everything with it. but what i'm worried about is the risk communications. what does this mean to somebody whoth is actually trying to determine if their system is safe and how it's going to impact the health and drinking water standards? i'm going to actually submit questions to you in writing because this is getting a little technical i do not want to take up mymy time on technicalities. if you can respond to those when i send them on very much appreciate that. >> yes happy to pick rex thank you.

let me ask again on the pfas issue, we set the drinking level were probably going too have for assistance test of this level and compliance. there's going to be a lot of instances of what we call passive receiver. somebody basically water system receives the water from a source. and passes the water on and may be the level is a little higher. i'm worried about liability issues. i know you are not in charge but have you all thought about this and what kind of issues we might be addressing here in congress in terms of the passive liability issue for pfas? >> you are correct, thank you for that question. on the hazard designation that is of course our office of land and emergency management, one i thing that is particularly exciting about how we are

approaching the issue of pfas at the agency is we really are taking a whole of agency approach. the water team has engaged close of the office of land and emergency management on these issues the passive liability. and certainly drinking water systems, wastewater systems, pfas has entered the systems they are not the responsibley. party. as that hazardous designation rule continues to move forward, the agency is thinking about enforcement discretion and what ppis appropriate, just as we do with other designations. right now though is such an exciting moment to be moving this drinking water rule forward because we also have the resources and the bipartisan infrastructure law, we areve working very act of the states and local communities to make sure the $9 billion you all dedicated to addressing pfas and emerging contaminants is out

here that water systems are accessing those funds, getting these treatment technologies in place. thi think that's going to make a huge difference as we move forward. >> what would you say to every state in terms of the retention of the flexibilities that's built into the systems on the revolving funds, once those revolving funds leave d.c. and go torah states like west virginia has all the responsibility in the state then? i mean that is what i would prefer, how do you see that? >> and really see it as a partnership. we have been very clear in our implementation memo around the bipartisan infrastructure law that we value the flexibility that states have always had. center capitol if you look at the thousands of projects that are on its intended use plans they are so diverse for their funding drinking water, wastewater, stormwater, smallse

projects, big projects, cyber security. the states are very much the driver seat of selecting the projects. that really meet the needs of their residence. i think we have preserved that. but it is also a partnership. it is our obligation for oversight into make sure states are utilizing these resources in a way that's consistent with the legislation and the statute. an example of that is around disadvantaged communities. one of things we talked about in the implementation memo is we summarized of course states are the ones that determine definition of disadvantaged communities both on the clean water site as well seat drinking water side. to be helpful in the implementation memo we laid out criteria that tend to be good criteria that states are utilizing in those definitions. in one center may be more

problematic. what is so exciting number of states chose to amend their definition of disadvantaged communities. we are seeing a trend line of consistent with the statute of the state water act. ultimately it's a partnership. but yes, absolutely the states are in the driver seat and selecting the projects meet the needs and theirds borders. >> i appreciate that answer. i think part of your answer went to what my opening statement was saying. the states need to be the drivers seat the states are going to make the best determinations. i think it was see not just a epa but also transportation is the administration is putting the foot on the pedal here in certain instances and suggesting certainai parameters that then lead to a thinker states wondering if we don't go the way

epa is saying are we going to have some kind of i do not want to say penalty but are we being guided by other issues that if we were doing it on our own we would not be doing quite this way? i think that is a cautionary tale so senator cramer? >> thank you, senator. thank you administrator fox for being here. i have a lot of things to thank you for so bear with me as i do a little bit of that. i don't think it could be overstated how you import your trip in 2021 but we had a robust discussion on that woman to ask some things about that here in a little bit. probably the most was learning out a little bit with the locals going through a water plant it was wonderful. and i think most importantly you listened to people. and related to them so i thank

you for that trip. it meant a lot both that and learning out in the water stuff. i also want to thank you since then you have remained connected. you've always been available when i've had a question. i've tried to answer calls when you make it in a renown that we bump into each other. i think it's important people see relationships matter even where there is disagreement. i appreciate that. you and your team clarified some things for my constituents in pretty short order for a massive bureaucracy like yours don't thank you for that ass well. as you know, working with the state revolving fund provisions of the infrastructure bill are state agency oversees the variety of other stakeholders in the water sector raise concern of the effective date of the bill provisions. in particular are different effective dates.

these are awfully different programs, same agency different program similar goals. that kind of confusion relates a chaos oftentimes both are up to him to give up. they reconciled the dates. a good simple solution to the issue. north dakota's move forward on to thank you on your team for clearing that up is good public service. we know administrator will be in front of us for the really tough questions will spare you those. i wanted to bring up a couple of issues for the same meeting in 2020 when we are from stakeholders and since the agency unveiled the role i heard

a lot of the stakeholders, constituents and others who were concerned the new rule embodies the same reach i think there are some distinctions mimes your shirt or declare for them i'm sure. anything that defers to the bureaucracy we just get concerned about prayer we never really meta- regulatory agency did not regulate when given the opportunity. also concerning postal rules shifting concerning proof. the burden of proof on the landowners for proving their land is nonjurisdictional. can you just explain why it does that? the previous rule the trump role in the preamble states emphatically the burden of proof is not on the landlord but rather on the agency. your rule seems to have flipped that. cano you explain that a little bit?

yes, happy to do nothing for your hospitality was a wonderful visit to north dakota. i appreciate the feedback i have to say senator north dakota is doing a fabulous job with implementation of the bipartisan infrastructure law. they have already taken all of their grants for your one. they are moving fast on their intended use plans for it is been a great partnership. it's going to be some great, great projects funded and north dakota. thank you for the opportunity to clarify this question you raise. frankly thank you for hosting me and north dakota. we received so much valuable information at the wide array of stakeholders at the united states.

proudro where would land on this role. both my confirmation and administrator reagan when he had his confirmation hearing. both talked about clear rules of the road to farmers to ranchers to landowners it. our rule is that the obama clean water role. it's a much more narrow definition of the united states the obama rule. it is not the trump navigable water role either which as you know vacated by multiple ports and was off the books as of august 2021. one of the things he really focused on in the development of our rule wasn't practical implementation consideration for that is what i heard when i was in north dakota. on this land owner question a

couple of things i would share. one is as part of our 2023 rule we have a whole land owner guide which made it easy for land owners as a permit. who are close with army corps where they can provide free jurisdictional determination to any land owner that ask for them and do that quickly. that is a key feature. i think one of the things i'm most proud about a source or 2020 rule rule is we also clarified what is out. with prior converter cropland. this is something that so many farmers it is confusing. we have made that a categorical exemption very clear we partnered very closely with usda

on that because we thought it was also important that our definitions between different agencies are aligned rate that is why usda is so supportive of this particular rule. and then finally again the focus of implementation citing the definition of the federal level moving forward. one thing we did as we issued our final rule we also issued a series of implementation memorandums. some are between epa and army. we are doing trainings to make sure there is a consistent understanding of this definition. we also have a coordination mou with usda. again how do we make sure similes are aligned. senator i believe we delivered on what we said weer would do. no more ping-pong let's find the center give people clear rules

of the road as it relates to the united states. and then also to make sure we are protecting the vital water resources. i hope you see we have struck that balanceer we certainly have tried very quickly appreciate that i'm sure the last republican they will ask you today at. [laughter] thank you. >> thank you madam chair i appreciated very much i think the administrator. thank you for your leadership on this issue i appreciate the engagement you've had with our office. these are exciting times. we have opportunities we have not seen in generations to jill of our water infrastructure. we all know the current status of our infrastructure with drinking water or wastewater. it is not where it needs to be. we consistently get grades that are unacceptable. had the best drinking water system in the world 100 years

ago. and unfortunately most pipes are underground today are being used. we have challenges in baltimore and challenges throughout ourur country. one of the major parts of the bipartisan infrastructure increasing thehe resources going into state revolving funds was to direct your efforts to traditionally underserved communities, communities that have an affordability issue in regards to doing the necessary infrastructure that is critical to both drinking water and wastewater treatment. so,bo tell me how you're going about reaching those communities that had challenges in the past being able to afford the necessary improvements into their water systems, carrying out the intent of congress. >> thank you for that question. so we are doing a couple of things. one, think the most exciting

features of the bipartisan infrastructure law is that you will provide about 49% of resources must be spent may put out as grants and principal forgiveness in disadvantaged communities. i think your vision and designing the bipartisan infrastructure law has unlocked so much potential. the challenge senator's disadvantaged communities often do not have the financial capacity to access the loan aspect of the srs. by putting so much money as grants and principal forgiveness you have removed when the critical barriers that these committees face. we know just having resources available is not enough. we have stood up the assistance

program alongside the capitol projects we arere funding. we have built out our environmental factor every region has a center. as well as national ones. they are basically available to any community that wants technical assistance in order to access the funds. i hope to local water utility i was at a public utilities commission. there we had access to all this engineering, design, financial planning disadvantaged community does not have access to those things but they need that in order to get these funds were basically making that available to any community that wants them. we just open up rta webpage. i will look to share the information with the committee so you can share that with your constituents.

thousands of committees accesses dollars. that is the core strategy provide the technical assistance support to these disadvantaged communities can build technical capacity. >> i want to follow up with you as to how that b is being implemented. we have baltimore city repairs support in adequate to deal because of income. then we have communities like smith allen which are so isolated they just don't have the population to be able to support the water that they need without greater assistance. so we have different needs ands our state and i'm sure that's true throughout the country technical assistance to be critically important. also make sure the resources get to those communities. please keep us informed. provide $3 million fy 23 omnibus

for youth to conduct a low-water assistance needs assessment. center wicker and i have worked on the reality therapy on the capacity of many payers today. we have a low income utility assistance program over under a light heat. we think there's needs to be one underwater. how are you implementing that assessment? >> thank you for that question you're actually right for this issue of water affordabilityda even $50 billion in funding from the federal government will make a huge difference. it's a growing challenge in communities across the country. in my former role at the u.s. water lines they help create the water equity affordability network. as to the assessment we are currently going to partner with hhs and the development of that assessment since they are managing the program. we are currently designing a methodology for that assessment.

it's going to get underweight very soon. i'm happy to keep your office up to date on how that assessment is going. in addition to that we are working closely to support hhs as they continue to administer the program. which we are so grateful to be developed by this congress. >> thank you appreciate keep me keinformed. and i'm sure i have a request unanimous consent on behalf of the chairman for this unanimous consent to enter into the record letter from the american sustainablesu business network which represents more than 40 businesses that rely upon clean water for this diverse coalition of businesses includes brewers, mattress companies, farms, letters express opposition to efforts used in professional review act to overturn the 2023. >> without objection for. >> thank you. >> thank you madam chairman and

welcome administrator fox. oh so pleased to hear senator cramer complements you on the relationship you formed with problem-solving and north dakota. and i am hoping you can help me similarly with a couple issues i have today that i would like tos discuss with you about sanitary survey results. my office is heard repeatedly from constituents that are frustrated with delays from the epa on sanitary survey results. i have close to a dozen towns or small water systems that have awaited, some as much as 26 months to get survey results conducted in the summer of 2020. these delays make it really difficult for these communities because some are getting results not long before a new survey is

required. can you commit to getting the survey results out within better time frames? ideally it would be 60 days after completion. but these surveys take a long time for committees to fill out especially small water systems. and there is a huge delay and they need the feedback sooner. as soon as they get the results there into anothero survey. x thank you so much for makingha me aware of this issue. you have my commitment i will personally look into the 12 water systems that you mentioned, that are waiting.

resiliency. the approach is also legally flawed. that is what the letter says and that may go on to ask for the to recall the memorandum. the signatories to that letter include the american water works association, national association and clean water agencies, national rural water agency conference of mayors, national association of counties and others so this is received a lot of review from local governments and concern about using the survey as the source for gathering that information. can you talk about what outreach

was done concerning the memorandum? >> you are absolutely right that cyber security threats is a growing concern happening with more frequency. there are bad actors out there and this is a significant vulnerability to the water systems. we have, we believe in order to protect our water systems from cyber threats we have to take a multifaceted approach and that is what we have been doing as epa. for example we've been encouraging them to use srs funds to do those upgrades and in the president's budget has requested an additional resources program to helpp water systems. we do many trainings and resources that are out there all

the time. we feel thell implementation is also a critical part of the solution. the sanitary survey is the primary toolsa by which the stae can assess the operational capacities of the local water system and given the critical nature of having good cybersecurity practices, we felt this needed to be in this modern age one of the operational considerations states look at in the surveys. we had a very robust process. we actually asked the associations, the state of drinking water associated and we had a process with them. they reviewed the memo. we had many consultations all along the way and we are not just issuing the memo without

support. there is a whole series of resources that are being developed, key questions that can be added by the state to the sanitary surveys, so we think this is very doable and achievable, a good key step forward to protect the water system from cyber threats that are growing. >> i would encourage you because of the letter that was addressed to the director to have more conversations with of the local implementers because it is a broad association that are saying the sanitary survey program is the wrong tool to have this dialogue so there is some sort of disconnect going on between the local implementers and epa so i would ask for your careful reconsideration or extend your dialogue with those

folks. my time is up, madam chair and i will submit a question about drinking water lost in the municipal systems due to faulty and leaking infrastructures and ask for a response in writing. thank you so much for being here. >> next, good morning and welcome. >> thank youou mr. chair man. good morning administrator fox, nice to see you here today and thank you for the conversation we had yesterday. i want to start off by discussing the recently finalized rule by epa end of the army court on the definition of water in the united states. as you know there's been a push by some in congress to do the congressional review act to repeal this rule and you and i discussed some of my concerns

here and senator sinema. the two of us sent a detailed letter lastt week with some specific implementation questions but i wanted to talk for a minute about what would happen if the cra past so we are going to have a vote on it. i want to start with a few yes and no questions. if the 2023 rule were appealed, would the trunk era navigable waters affect take effect? >> no because it was vacated in 2021 by a federal court. >> and what of the 2015 rule takeke effect? >> know it would not. >> my understanding is the rule that would be in effect is something similar to the 2015 guidance is that correct? >> that is correct, senator. >> that guidance my understanding is that it relies

on the same type of significant nexus that the epa and the army corps finalized this january, is that right? >> yes. there are key differences in how they approach it. >> can you explain the differences? >> yes, sir. so, the cra if it were to pass it would as you said put us back to the pre- 2015 definition of water. that definition is broad than the 2023 rule that is more narrow and the definition. it is more uncertain and so there would be key challenges. with the cra, you can't sort of take parts of the rules that work and parts that don't.

it lights up the rule and puts in place so we would for example on the question of the two test nexus and relatively permanent in the 2023 rule significant nexus is much more narrowly defined than in 2015 and it would be utilized onlyly a very smalll number where it would be much more broad versus 2023. another challenge if it would pass is many of the exemptions and exclusions that i responded to just a moment ago, those would all be avoided out and because the cra says that agencies cannot adopt a rule that is similar in the future, we may never be able to bring back things like the exemptions for artificial so it would

create confusion, uncertainty and avoid the common sense aspects of the rule that we worked so hard to put in place. >> so the things we did that made it narrower if we go back and do it through the cra process in the future, we couldn't use the same items as you just address to get a more narrow definition. >> that is correct. they are prevented from issuing anythingre similar. >> this took us a while to sort through.h. it's not an obvious thing how sometimesno you can through the process you are trying to get an outcome that might be narrower and in fact you have some unintended consequences and i think that is the case here. >> that is absolutely the case. we would be throwing out a

narrow definition, all the implementations and direction we provided. we would be throwing out the collaboration memos b between te usda and epa and army corps that wouldps help with that implementation. we would be going back to a broad definition that would create a great deal of uncertainty in communities across the country. we believe it would lead to delays and permitting important projects, infrastructure projects,an development happenig on land. so it's not the right tool. we can always improve. we welcome that conversation with this committee. we are also laser sharp focused on doing implementation work in a way that addresses the regional differences across the country. we lose all of that if this gets your grade. >> thank you.

>> thank you for the line of questioning. some important points were made. and thank you for your responses. i mentioned this earlier. one of the things we look forward to his predictability and it's always been the case and i think it is the case still. thanks for joining us. i joined by senator sullivan as well. you are recognized for questions. >> thank you, chairman, ranking member cap a toe. thank you verybe much and administrator fox for joining us. as governor, one of the things that i am very well aware of is the water infrastructure and how challenging not just for big cities but in nebraska and rural communities. obviously the epa released the first standard for drinking

water. often we don't have the technical capability for dealing with views and some sort of monitoring requirements. how do you plan to assist the small water system in the rural areas for the testing to be able to comply with the rulemaking? >> thank you for that question. it's a huge priority for us. how do we make sure smaller water systems benefit from the bipartisan infrastructure law and everything we are doing. this question there's a couple of things. one we have recently started our you crm five which is an ongoing monitoring program and historically, larger water systems do that. we advocated so they could do

that and because of the generosity of congress we have resources to work on that. in the bipartisan infrastructure law there is a 5 billion-dollar grant program that is dedicated to small systems and disadvantaged communities to basically look at other emerging contaminants so that will be the resources dedicated to the communities are asking about, senator so those resources can help and they are grant programs so you don't have to pay anything back and they can uset that for testing, remediation, implementing treatment technology so that's going to make a hugego difference. what we have learned in our work across rural america is just getting resources, making resourcesur available isn't enough. you've got to support smaller

yssystems and building the technical financial and managerial capacities to be able to both get to that grant and then be able to implement it well so that's why we are spending so much time building up the technical infrastructure. we have 29 environmental finance centers and we havevi increased our contract with natural rural water and the assistance program becauseey they have direct touch points in rural america so they are going to be doing even more technical assistance in these areas so that is what some of what we have underway and we think that it's going to change the odds in rural america. >> how will theyre be able to access the resources were talking about? >> we put up a technical assistance webpage on the website. i would be happy to share that information with your office if you would like that.

but also we are working really closely with the states. many states have technical assistance programs we are trying to coordinate. your environmental secretary, your state manager they are going to know the community is out of compliance and that are keeping them up as it relates to a clean safe water so we are asking them. we are building this list of communities and not waiting for the community to come to us. when we hear from a state or local water system something is of concern, we are having our technical assistance providers actively reach out to them so we have to go to the community and not just wait for them to ask for help. >> okay thank you. i'm running out of time here so i'm going to talk about another thing with some of the investments for these communities the intent was to

help them to be able to get the resources. my understanding is some feel like there've been other priorities put in place with regards to climate rather than safe drinking water. isof that something you feel is being pushed or people were just taking this the wrong way? whateo is the response when you hear some of those criticism close? >> i think it is a misunderstanding, senator. we have been very clear in our implementation memo and all of our discussions that the states are in the driver seat and making decisions around the programs because they know what communities need those resources the most so we have been clear onta that and we certainly encourage climate considerations, but it's not a requirement. certainly places like oklahoma drought is a top concern so certainly projects that are going to help the water supply

diversification and conservation, these are things that are going to really matter in communities but states are in the driver's seat as far as selecting projects. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> senator sullivan, good morning. welcome. >> i want to start with a chart. this is a chart of life expectancy in america and in alaska in particular for the last 25 years from 19822014. did you see where the blue and dark blue is that his life expectancy going up a lot. actually, yellow, orange, red, life expectancy has decreased. that's really sad. mostly that's been due to the opioid epidemic that's killed so many americans. butso my state particularly in e

rural regions and the islands this had the largest life expectancy increases in place in any place in the country. of the 13 years and many of our rural areas, that is a great indicator of policy success. why do you think that happened? that iss a hard question but 19822014 what else happened during that time? we have very big booming resource development, oil and gas, mining. when i get upset about these issues when federal agencies try to shut down resource developmentsde in my state it's literally a matter of life and death. the communities in rural alaska have benefited from that. they are living longer. i don't know if there's a policy

indicator more important than the people you are representing living longer would you agree? >> yes. >> anything more important than that? >> no. >> i don't think so either. one of the things that is frustrating and we just went throughh this process the vast majority of alaskan native people were supportive. the national media hated the story. they kept canceling the voices of the indigenous people in alaska but what we finally got it out there. one ofof the reasons is becausef this. they know it's jobs. pride, things most communities take for granted like running water and toilets. you get infrastructure, jobs, revenue, you can do those things. parts of my state people haven't had access to for a long time,

maybe ever. let me talk about a related area but it's all in this area, mining. the administration on a number of projects, the mining district inam particular the same day the president held a summit at the white house on the importance of cutting dependence on critical minerals like from china they reverse to that. that was the department of interior, secretary holland seemed hell-bent on reversing everything. despite that chart, kind of remarkable she would be doing that but the epa finalized the action on the preemptive veto action but you said it's also importantid to note that the action doeso not apply to currt oror future resource development projects in alaska similarly

administrator reagan said by no means is this decision meant to send any signals beyond this specific progress or project. can you begin by recommitting to me epa will not use this as a precedent to stop future alaska projects or importantly anything that is already previously permittedea in alaska keeping ts in mind because when you do that, when holland recently reversed the decision actually yesterday she reversed. there is no native project people in alaska care about that she doesn't reverse. the native people again, stunning to me. can you recommit to what you and the administrator already said with regard to mining projects in my state? >> yes and it's good to see you again. i was thinking of the last time we were together was at the

bethel airport this summer when we were of both visiting the village on the infrastructure projects. it's good to see you again and yes, to be clear that epa has sparingly used the authority in the last 40 years, three times. that's it. yes, i commit as an administrator that it will be sparingly used. we were very clear that it was about a particular mind and geography. beautifulti and unique ecosyste. i talk about water and sewer and

the needs to get the communities in alaska that don't have flush toilets andmm running water. by the way these are some of the most patriotic because let alaskan natives serve more than any other ethnic group in the country. can you recommit to me given the resources and infrastructure bill. i told them that you're going to be working on honey buckets. can you recommit to help us get rid of it once and for all? because of the bipartisan infrastructure law and the incredible leadership of president biden and the congress

investing $50 billion, so you have my absolute commitment on that. >> thank you, senator. in the bipartisan infrastructure law, congress committed to ensure the disadvantaged communities benefit from better wastewaterter and infrastructure investments. the biden administration has made the same pledge through its justice 40 initiative. same policies such as ranking systems and an additional criteria can create barriers to the disadvantaged and underserved to access funds. here's my question. is the epa tracking these barriers and what is the agency's plan to help overcome the barriers so they can access

the water infrastructure? working actively with individual states as well as the council of infrastructure finance authorities to collaboratively develop solutions to those barriers. the states and epa share that thecommitment to making sure tht we make these resources and as many as possible. things like the project ranking system for example we have some statesta that have only annual application processes while others allow for multiple rounds andes a submission. if there are challenges around

the local communities that went to apply and having full transparency into the process, so there are a range of barriers and many with funding and financing programs across the federalgo government. so we are very closely partnering with the states to work with those together. the various training and opportunities from the states to come together to learn and we want to support and encourage that as much as possible. >> to replace the lid to service lines and bipartisan infrastructure including the $15 billion in funding for full led to service line replacements and the years leading up to the passage with several states including my home state of delaware the prevalence was not

a significant problem. however some started doing lead inventoriespr and a lot of folks expectingni this initial skepticism had the states been able to use funding for the lead latest service linele replacements? >> i think one of the most exciting aspects of the job and a serving in this capacity is to help deliver on president biden's commitment to get the lead out once and for all. so remarkable that the leadership on this issue and at the epa we are using every tool in our toolbox to deliver on that. as it relates to your question, senator, the reaction is next. mixed. there are some states that feel the allocation.

others think that the allocation is too much given how much they need is they are so we are in constant conversation with the states to understand that. we do have the real enrollment process we can utilize so that after two years if the state does land use it we can reallocate it to the states that could use it so right now we are in the process of working with of the states to make sure they know they can use the money to support the inventory development because that is the first thing to understand the nature and the scope of the problem. but yes after those two years they will be able to reallocate. >> thank you. mymy last question deals with te private wells. my family grew up in west virginia largely in virginia.

he always had a private wells and i think a lot of folks still do. we've got a million people now and there's the 173,000 residents who depend on the private wells for the drinking water. of the number is actually growing, not shrinking. the language in the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure to allowtu the ea to give the grants to the states for the underground sources of contamination impacting wells for the language except to connect the orders to the regulated water utility which as

you know is not always feasible. because they are managed by the states, congress does not expect the epa under the safe drinking water act and having said that, congress did expect the epa helps the states with these contaminated drinking waters. i was going to ask if you would be committed to working with of the committee on the public works to hold address by providing resources to states. >> absolutely commit to that. i'm happy to work more closely with the committee on this moving forward. >> what is your favorite body of water? >> now that i'm the only one

here. >> it's hard to argue with that one. that's it for my questions and to convey to the team especially for the work for the chemicals that is one that is of great importance. i literally witnessed a terrible tragedy for the parallel for the

base but not as big as the ones early one morning two planes were coming down to land simultaneously as it turned out on the same runway and the large plane crashed and killed about 18 people. about 20 years later i'm driving inin delaware driving down route 13. i could see black smoke coming up from the air force base which

is fully loaded and the cargo to take off from dover air force base and climb altitude. they got a warning light and to shut down the wrong engine. there was a full bag of fuel and they tried to come around and land on the runway before they lost all their altitude. they m didn't make it and went about a mile south to the runway to dover air force base. that is the good news. the bad news is in the week of that we have the communities

that have contaminated drinking water so it was intended to save lives and in delaware, we are dealing with it in west virginia and pleased with the attention received and hopefully we will continue to receive. thank you very much. anything else you want to say? with that, we will welcome the second panel.

>> an opportunity to welcome you all. thank you for your testimony and your service. randy is the commissioner and ceo of the water department, the role he was appointed to in 2019. let's see who's calling. oh that's my wife. in any event, commissioner of the philadelphia water department as always, in 2019 by mayor jim kenny. i appreciate all the detail.

thank you for joining us today. chair man carper and ranking member c and members of the committee -- >> people call me all things in this hearing but the name is o-uppercase-letter. i've been called worse things. >> again, chair man carper, ranking member cap a toe and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify on the new resources being delivered by theta investments and jobs act and wastewater infrastructure an act known as the bipartisan infrastructure law on the bill. asas the commissioner and ceo of the water department and the member of the board of directors of the association metropolitan agencies, i know that the nation has long been overdue for the

landmark investment in water infrastructure so ist want to begin my testimony by commending the committee for the leadership between the drinking water and wastewater components and the open-door engagement with other water stakeholders it was a hallmark of this process. this bill was the model of how both parties and sector stakeholders can work together to find common ground and this is why the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure past with a vote of 89-2 before being incorporated into the larger bill. but this is allo about how we t here. today i wantt to focus my comments on the on the ground benefits the resources provided by the infrastructure law providing to my community for background. in 2019 they come play the water revitalization plan. a 25 year multibillion-dollar

strategic vision for upgrading the infrastructure. the plan contains an estimated 400 necessary products including rebuilding water retreatment plants and replacing the stations and transmissions while leveraging the low-cost financing opportunities to keep the rates affordable for the rtcustomers. and to be honest, the financing component represents one of the hardestre aspects of the plan. we know what to do. we know what work we need to do to strengthen the cities, water and infrastructure. they are smart and they are dedicated. what is not as a parent is how they can pay for it using the waterr and sewer rates to unsustainable levels. fortunately it came out and opportune o time because the ciy was working to implement the time and last month president biden announced philadelphia would receive $500 million in financing through several different programs authorized

and funded -- >> how much was that? >> 500 million. a significant amount. andil this includes 160 millionn pennsylvania's share the bipartisan infrastructure law to upgrade and replace more than 1y led service lines discovered during this work. iadditionally in january philadelphia closed on the $19.8 million loan from the epa program. this would support the replacement of the 15 miles of water mains in approximately 160 lead to service lines through the city and financing costs than we otherwise would have faced. this represents just the first stage of the $340 million worth of assistance promised to philadelphia by the epa. the future investments will be paid for by subsequent rounds so this isro why it is so essential that congress reauthorize and

set the course for the stability in the years to come. and while it's become consistently funded we extended multiple wastewater funding programs many of which are still meaningful investments and implementation by epa. one such program is the midsize and large drinking water system sustainability program that will help the drinking water systems prepared to withstand the natural effects in cyber security threats and a champion the creation of the program alongside senator ben cardin and we aren pleased to see it receie an initial $5 million appropriation in the final fiscal year spending legislation. however, the national need is much greater than $5 million. the water systems across the

country are still waiting for the epa to stand up the program and we urge the epa to move with diligence to make the program operational and to request more funding and future budget requests. finally, let me conclude with few areas where i think the funding is provided and can be made more effective. first we greatly appreciate the law authorizing the new low income wastewater system pilot program. water affordability is a national need and it should be part of the federal safety net. we urge them to complete this needs assessment so the program can be funded and put to work.

the water cannot assess grants of the forgiveness through the revolving fund to establish the baseline standards to ensure the populations can benefit no matter what size and community they are in. again thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. honored to work with the committee on the infrastructure legislation and the water department is proud to be among the first recipients. i've submitted my statement for the record and i am happy to answer any questions youy may

have. >> i will come back and ask some questions. the executive director is that an acronym? >> it can be for several things. the water utility in wisconsin one of the most exciting football games i ever saw was in green bay playing for the super bowl in august i think -- you are recognized to give your statement. >> chair man carper, ranking member and members of the committee i appreciate the

opportunity to appear. i serve as president of the board of directors of the national association of clean water agencies and labels of executive director of the new water brand of the metropolitan district in green bay wisconsin where i've been since 2007. providing wholesale treatment and services to 238,000 people across 15 municipalities in northeast wisconsin. we have 101 employees and annual budget of $49 million and maintain the capital improvement plan a $470 million in 2021. the utility views the material sent to the facilities as a valuable resource to be recovered and reused and we are committed to continue the improvement in the watershed. for over 50 years, we've represented public wastewater agencies nationwide. and on the front lines of the public health and environmental protection. the unique and growing network

of 350 public agency networks ensures the public utilities have the tools necessary to provide affordable and sustainable clean water for all. as a part of the mission, we've long advocated for the federal government to recommit to the full and reliable partnership of the communities to invest and build the critical water infrastructure. in this country the local customers and payers have paid for the overwhelming majority of investments in water and sewer infrastructure. not surprisingly the cost of providing clean and safe water have been growing for years and by extension the rates have been also increasing to me to this cost. this can be a significant hardship for many in the communities and those of us responsible for this take this very seriously. the historic water infrastructure investments commonly referred to in the bipartisan infrastructure law or bill can offer much-needed help for localca governments workingo juggle these dynamics.

with the implementation we are encouraged by the efforts for the administrator and assistant administrator on this major undertaking to implement the statute expeditiously and ensure that it achieves the goals set forth by congress. my full written comments along with the recent report released have been provided tot you so i will try to keep my remarks brief. i first want to discuss the importance of the clean water state revolving fund known as cws rf. in the bipartisan commitment made through both direct appropriations and increases to authorize the annual funding. the funds are invaluable and all of the fy 22 genital capitalization grants have gone out to the states and the epa recently announced the supplemental funding.

authorized a bill only 60% in the fiscal year 2023 which reduces the overall impact congress sought to making this investment package. discouraged by the request within president biden's recently released budget for fiscal year 24: for the level funding of the cws rf the last fiscal year rather than anything increased that would be $3 billion for next year. they continue to urge full funding for the cws rf and each in eachfiscal year. the next issue the utilities are extremely concerned about the potential health and environmental risk associatedlt with exposure and what it may mean for the future of the clean water operations. an important provision of the bill is the allocation of the funds for the emerging contaminants through the cws rf. they are concerned about the looming cost that they may face to manage or dispose of the contaminants which the water

utilities positively receive and didn't create or profit from. asas a new part of the funding e bills resources are predictably seeing the slower rate than the traditional funding. to my knowledge approximately half the states have received these awards to date. one obstacle to getting the fundsle approved and distributed quickly is that many of the most include monitoring assisting in implementing the treatment programs. however these important. steps are not clearly eligible under the srf that focuses on capital investments. they have the authority to request the full transfer of funds designated for the contaminantsts to be applied to accounts for drinking water. for this fiscal year several have this transfer with wisconsin included. the option allows the states flexibility to prioritize the contaminants t needs. but this shouldn't suggest that they will not also face

significant costs to help lcontrol and remediate in the communities. working with epa and utilities to identify the potential near-term uses allowed under the cwsus rf however congressional clarity or distinct funding helping the communities assess the sources and working the wastewater streams may be needed. another issue is how to support the customers to address the affordability challenges. they conduct the national income water needs assessment that has since been appropriate funding. the national hardship and sewer bills however it may not be complete for several years and in the meantime households continue to struggle. to help address the challenge, they support the permanent reliable source of federal assistance with full funding to ensure the households afford their bills and utilities have the resources they need to make

criticalrc investments. we appreciate the opportunity to share the views on the implementation. i'm proud of the work they've accomplished to advance public health and environmental protection. the nation's understanding of the complexity of the challenges only continues to grow. i kept my testimony shows how the packages are providing the investments in making the infrastructure safer and more resilient and responsive like the emerging contaminants while emphasizing the vast need for funding and how we hope this investment is only a start. continued resources and assistance from the federal government are critical to stensure all water and wastewatr utilities are prepared to meet the challenges of today and tomorrow with full funding of

the bipartisanow infrastructure law and i'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. >> i appreciate your testimony. we now turn to ms. kathy, the director of the division of water and waste management at the department of environmental protection. welcometi to you. glad you are here from the state of west virginia and i understand the legislature just put another responsibility onto on toyou as well. so, thank youl. for taking thatn whether you wanted it or not. >> on the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure act that was included in the infrastructure investment and jobs act. i am the director of the wastewater management and i've either worked in or managed west virginia'sn clean water state revolving fund for the past 28

years. i am truly honored to represent west virginia today to discuss with you the funding opportunities provided in the infrastructure investment and jobs act as well as current water infrastructure challenges at ongoing unmet needs for small will go into disadvantaged communities. considering that only 50 of west virginia's combined 671 drinking water wastewater utilities serve the population greaterop than 10,000 i think that it's safe to say west virginia is on the front lines of facing the challenges of meeting the needs of the small, rolling into disadvantaged communities. >> the difficulties to providing the services for the communities is very real. the reality of the small members and customers with of the challenges and low incomes make it very difficult to find an affordable solution to meet the needs of the residents. with 100% principal forgiveness and grant funding, customers find the right to support only the operation and maintenance

expenses and challenge. in addition the communities are also struggling to find and pay the qualified operators. infrastructure needs cover providingin safe drinking water and treated wastewater to the unserved communities, upgrading old and a failing infrastructure, locating and addressing the latest service lines and preparing to meet the upcoming standards as well as any other new regulatory initiatives. the supplemental funding for the act means a lot to the communities that are trying to address thee challenges. for example, the number of applicants for the project priority list jump from 101 to 175 in the t clean water and frm a 29 to 157 in the drinkwater. as the communities are preparing for the advantage of the historical opportunity west virginia has been utilizing multiple approaches to addressa these issues in collaboration with otherer agencies and technical assistance are the tools we are using to fully

utilize the available state and federal dollars to provide a safe drinking water and treated wastewater to these citizens as soon as possible. that being said i ask for your consideration of a few suggestions to help us be even more effective in the funding projects to meet with the intent of the act. the most effectivee part of the program is the flexibility to tailor the programs to meet the individual states needs. the states must have the ability to determine their own definition of the disadvantaged and develop their own purity to meet the needs of the citizens of their states. each of the changes in the initiative also need to maintain that flexibility. as you can see from the written testimony there are several suggestions for additional flexibility that if provided can help states maximize the utilization of the funding to fit their individual situations. it's been my experience working with small utilities and communities u without access to

adequate water and wastewater infrastructure, situations in needs have never been contemplated. that isnt why it's so critical that i we be very cautious about the policies and guidance documents that limit the ability of the srs and other agencies to adopt the changing needs. the one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work when trying to apply solutions foror the large utilities. the communities trying to improve or provide service to outmost hundreds of customers. thank you again for allowing me the opportunity to discuss these issues with you today. the problem is always finding a sustainable and affordable solution to the communities with small numbers of customers and the funding provided through this act will help us to address the problem with many disadvantaged and on certain areas. thank you. >> thank you. and thank all of you. we are the reason. chairman carper went to make his vote and to do the questioning

that we have to leave and do my constitutional duty. let's get to the flexibility. you heard me ask about this. there was a january 6 memo of the epa put out a guidance memo that encouraged and sort of sought to impose the epa priorities in the community investments and at this is what i was trying to say to her is exactly what you said much better s in your statement. leave us the flexibility to do what we want and what we know is best for our communities as we tailor them. what kind of challenges and concerns do you have that the epa guidance may be trying to rein in some of your flexibility. >> i am a little bit concerned by that memo. i want to start by saying this past year we had a lot of conversations there and the excellent funding partner with

west virginia. they are asking questions about how if we evaluated the affordability criteria, the prioritization criteria. the epa guidance had a lot of suggestion for the states to consider andsu we did take advantage of those suggestions and made adjustments in the plan. but when i am writing this memo and r it's talking about additional criteria in addition toch the checklist when it's talking about the implementation of the prayer ready that they are developing and they are going to be accessing. >> so you haven't even seen that yet. >> it's in development. it has me a little bit concerned that there's going to be criteria that they are going to ask us to incorporate. >> see you can create your own plan as congress intended to the small disadvantaged communities

and smaller communities because that is where we are in a lot of ways, smaller communities that you formulate all of this and technical expertise together. it goes to epa and all of a sudden they come back with criteria that you haven't seen. is that the concern, am i hearing that correctly? >> i'm hearing where the memo is taking us at this point. >> i do have a list of questions in the memo. we are set up to have a conversation but i have not seen what this priority is. >> are you hearing this across the country, the same issue? >> i'm not familiar with the same recent. our experience in the state of wisconsin clean water fund has been very positive over the last year they have taken what they received from epa. we formed the working group with the clean water fund.

they've expanded the definition of what is considered to be but they haven't excluded so i am not as familiar with the most recent changes. >> the leakage of water out of the systems we know that is a huge issue for us. we know that that was discovered in the north central part of the state and it's probably more predominant in other areas of the state.wh what is your biggest, what do you think the challenges specific to the state and water infrastructure is is it going to be the testing as we see it come through the destruction, what are we going to do with it, how are we going to replace the filters? i'm naming some of the things from your perspective. >> i think the primary thing for the community is when you are

talking -- all of the above in addition to just what we were talking about in maintaining the existing infrastructure and services now we are trying to assess the situation inth west virginia. where is the contamination coming from and we are adding the service liens on top of all of. that. so it's a lot for all of the communities to take on. we are working with them one bye by one. that's why the flexibility has to be maintained. some of the disadvantaged to tie together the projects they have because they can't sustain the service. >> that's always part of the consideration.

>> it's a combination of a lot of grant funding sources but i was looking at the combined water and wastewater rate for the citizens and it will be over $100 a month. over 3% of the median household income, just for the water and wastewater. that is without adding on other considerations going on board. >> thank you. i'm going to run and do my vote and i think that senator is theg to take the gavel. >> thank you very much. >> so, since senator kelly just got here i'm going to ask my questions if that's okay. i can let you go first. i'm ready if you are.

good morning. we still have a couple of minutes. for the water infrastructure modernization act which would provide dedicated epa funding for smart water and wastewater technologies like pipeline detection systems and sensors and a smart water meters and we are hoping to reintroduce the legislation again and see progress made on the legislation during this congress. so, for both of you, can you both speak to how your systems use smart water technologies to reduce the water loss and improve system efficiencies and how what additional federal resources such as through the water infrastructure modernization act help water and wastewater systems further deploy these technologies? >> i will gladly take that

question, senator. it is important that as a water utility that we keep evolving. one of the main things we have toe do is use technology to our advantage. i've been doing it in a way that is economically feasible. affordability is a big issue. when we are able to use technology in the big picture that is responsible to the customers we are doing what is the right thing to do. now as far as smart technology, wewe have the automated meter infrastructure program. so, we are able to get the real-time information up to the water usage. so you go to the apt, go to the website. looko and see what is my bill. so what happens to that situation instead of having a running pipe, a broken toilet that you are not aware of in the basement, that the bill is going up. you will be able to go to the site and to see what it is and i think that is power and it

allowsow you to be more economically feasible and sensible and how m you are handling your household economics. but the bottom line is we have systems that allow the leaks and pipes. we had a situation where there is a leakage that we couldn't find. we used the technology. wewe were able to work to pinpot it but we were a lot closer than we were before. so, the technology is important and the funding is imperative. we are dealing with a situation where the rates are going higher and higher to allow us to assist the customer and to keep the rate low or not to increase at all is beneficial to the entire community. >> do you have any examples of

percentagewise were a specific investment that has resulted like any anecdotal example? >> i would have to go back and supplement the record after the hearing but i must say that the process of the real-time information is truly important. and it is revolutionary in philadelphia because what has happening is that people can monitor the water usage. they can monitor if there is a leak in the pipe. it's's a 100 million-dollar project but it's going to be greatly beneficial for decades to come. >> so coming from a clean water utility is not a concern for us, but in the implementation smart technology infrastructure system we do usece some of the covers o be ablear to identify the wet weather events and high flows

because often times rainfall is not uniform across the area or to be ablefa to deploy to potentially mitigate the problems. we are a huge energy user and so we have used smart technology is to be able to analyze how we use energy and possibly tie into some of our equipment when it's not needed to run out quite the full capacity. we collect tons of information and we've been able to predict where we would go which helps our operators make better decisions. so the smart technology in the wastewater utility is being used and is being beneficial i mentioned with staffing as we are having struggling to continue to find treatment

operators and maintenance electricianfi technicians that s allowing us to stretch those forces aor little further. >> thank you, senator. i yield the time that i don't have. >> is a first time with this panel. we had the administrator talk about this, so i'm going to give you all the tools that would be helpful in addressing the impacts especially concerned about the rural communities when comes to the tools that could be helpful as we go through this to makeis sure that the communities apply. >> why don't you start first?

>> we will be receiving a lot of new data so it's important we work with the scientists and engineers on what does that mean. the other part is anything that we do is going to be an additional cost. additional burden to the ratepayer and imperative to assist us for the burden they can't cure or the bills that they would have to cover. basically though i would say we have to work with our engineers to evaluate and make sure we have the machinery to do it. we have been doing that voluntarily for over a year and putting the information that we find on our website and also we

have been transparent and that is going to be a major part of this as a waterg utility in the country that we cannot go back to how we operate in the 1950s and 60s and many had to be transparent. we havee done that releasing information and keeping the public informed, so i think we have to make sure we have the machinery were need and equipmet and understand what we are looking at and we have to be transparentt to release the information and educate the public on what we have. >> ballpark what is it going to cost to do that? >> in all honesty of the law changed. it's for parts per trillion and i think it was about 14 parts per trillion so we will have to reevaluate it as we go forward. >> we are in the process of starting the evaluation process.

we are expecting to spend between the utility and working with our discharges that we believe might discharge in the vicinity of 100 to $200,000 for the testing and analysis so that will be the first step to try to understand where this is coming from. the testing process is not easy. the analysis process is not inexpensive so that's a big part of it. one thing i wanted to mention the biggest concern is the utility. as the rule list currently written even though they do not plan to call the responsible party the experience over about two decades is that we spent in excess of a million dollars

through legal fees as well as being considered to be a de minimis partner so we are not going to consider you to be a principal responsible party but that doesn't mean they won't come after us for contribution and thatus is i think going to e one of the biggest concerns for utilities is i being brought ino that entire process and ifs tht is why we hope congress will grant an exemption. >> i do share some of the concerns. in west virginia we spent the last couple of years doing an assessment of the drinking water sources in the state to try to determine where this is located.

trying to find out the sources of contamination. that being said we are trying to be strategic on how we address this. where it'sat located and coming from. one of the suggestions that we would have is allowing more monitoring to be used. it does say we can use monitoring but it has to be tied to ann upcoming project. they worry about the expense monitoring onpe themselves. the flexibility to use the funding to figure out the realm of the problem and be very beneficial. >> that's it for you my friend. i will ask a couple of

questions. three questions and we will ask you each a question and start with you again. the bipartisan infrastructure law which i think i can speak for my colleagues is one of the things we are proudest of. it's a a great a bipartisan triumph. bipartisan infrastructure provided 11 billion to the drinking water state revolving fund over five years and 49% of the annual funding allocation shall bee used by the state to provide grants forgiveness of principle or combination of both. whether the project is eligible for the grant as opposed to a loan as the chair man by each rule on the subject.

some of the states determine the affordability criteria however prevent the large cities like philadelphia from being able to receive the grants for the projects thatwa would benefit ad growth via disadvantaged and minority communities living in the larger metropolitan area. his philadelphia had trouble accessing the grant funding provided in the bipartisan infrastructure law and what kind of projects do you think they could support if the affordability criteria wasa changed? >> thank you very much for the question. at the bottom line is yes we are having difficulty receiving grants from the state revolving fund. primarily because of the way that they determine the economic feasibility or accountability.

basically the rates are too low and what's happening is they are looking at being able to pay across the entire board. while there mightt be one area that skews the numbers and asnua result despite the size of philadelphia and seeing the largest cities in the country we are in a situation where we are not able to obtain the grantsab and as a result, we receive loans and of those then put a burden on the customer because they have to be repaid. let me also add of the second part when you stated what projects could we do there's a plethora of projects but as i said the engineers are smart and have projects we can work on.

one is the water revitalization program. there's going to turn around and have 400ec projects that allow s to rebuild our water plants and transmission mains to make sure that we have the tunnels that we need to transport the redundancy and the water across the different water utility parts and so in the end there are pipes that can be replaced and plants that can be repaired. epthere's a number of projects e would use the money for he and begin the grants are better than the loans because they do not place an economic responsibility on the customer down the road. they don't have to be repaid. >> my secondnd question accordig to the report by the actual association of clean water agencies and the association of the metropolitan water agencies it is estimated that drinking water and wastewater utilities

need an additional 448 billion to $944 billion between now and 2050 to make the systems more ntresilient to extreme weather events. the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure investment act creates several new grant programs focused on providing resources to drinking water anded wastewater utilities who wish to improve the systems resiliency to extreme weather events and other threats. while i was glad to see those receiving funding last year, the appropriate amount was well below the authorized level. here's my question. do you think it's important for congress to fully fund the resiliency program created in the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure act and how would those programs be used to address specific problems caused by climate

change? >> it is very important for congress to fundd these program. what has been provided is not an exaggeration. it is where we see the state of our infrastructure. we are very heavy capital infrastructure and we make it last a long time but it doesn't last forever. it needs to be replaced. the resiliency from climate change we have seen the system in the last five years have its maximum capacity. we were able to deliver service because we had all of our equipment able to be in service which isn't always the case because of maintenance. so in addition, we are seeing in the state of wisconsin not necessarily more rainfall throughout the year, maybe a little bit more but it is coming in at different times and with greater intensity and our

infrastructure needs to be upgraded to be able to handle these peak flows. >> i have one more question but we've been joined by senator marquis and we will yield to any questions he may have. >> thank you mr. chair man. >> in 2021 a malicious actor hacked into a water treatment facility in florida and increased the level ingredient by over 11000%. fortunately an operator notice to the intrusion and of that attack was a wake-up call. strengthening the security over the wastewater systems is a

complex task, but it starts with information and that's why the water information sharing and analysis center is so important. can you briefly explain to the committee the benefits of the water utilities, information sharing for utilities? >> the adage that information is power comes to mind. basically with that organization, information regarding theer cybersecurity, issues all come to one depository, so it's gathered, analyzed, distributed and ends up helping those that are members of it to make analysis and make the right decisions. after the derailment in east palestine ohio, theyy

disseminated the information to nearby communities about the risk and protective actions they could take so it gives them real-time information and again the information is power. >> last week i introduced the water system threat preparedness and resilience act which would provide funding for the clean water and wastewater utilities to become members. my legislation fills the gap for small water utilities to join this information sharing network and helps expand access to the resources. do you agree congress should pass the legislation so that we should increase the information sharing small utilities access to this information? >> absolutely. the more organizations are able to have access to it the better we are able to protect the health and safety of everyone. so these small water agencies, they deserve that?

>> they are left out and needed the most. so anything that opens the door of opportunity. >> what we saw in east palestine is a small community that had a terrible e disaster. so we don't need small systems left out because they serve populations that could have the same kind of catastrophic circumstances so thank you for protecting the infrastructure. samuel taylor college, and a poem he said water, water, everywhere but not a drop to drink. we all have a thirst for the and clean drinking water yet too many go without access to it in the wake of aging pipes and monitoring systems nationwide to small and disadvantaged that face additional barriers to the safe drinking water without the support needed. the communities of color 40%

more likely to have drinking water systems that consistently fail to meet the safetys in the. to address that in the system in 2019, i introduce the legislation to provide more support for disadvantaged communities with additional financial assistance and provisions allowing the communities to purchase filters entire technical expertise. i was veryrt glad to see these provisions included in the bipartisan infrastructure of law. and thanks to the leadership of the chair and of the bipartisan work with of the administration, this funding and other resources are getting out the door and into our pipes. more than $10 million has been awarded for example to fall river massachusetts after decades of neglect to help remove the lid of service lines throughout the city so again,

will more appropriated funds for the small underserved and disadvantaged community granter programs help more of those communities to get the safe drinkingin water which they are entitled to? >> absolutely. and it's because the need of the waterwa utilities are large and expanding. they do not simply stop. they are not stagnant. in the last 15 years we have had about 700 water main breaks. that means in the last five years it's been 700 were 7,000 i mean, 4,000 i should say water main breaks. they need to beey repaired. wewe have again the revitalizatn plan we have to basically tear down the treatment plan and rebuild it so these are expensive projects that need to be done because so much of the system is at the end of life and so if we are able to receive grants that helps any money that

we receive to allow us to lessen the burden that is placed on the citizens and customers. >> only 30 million was appropriated last year for small and disadvantaged communities even though 60 million was authorized in the bipartisan law? so we have to work harder. we h have to get that money so that the smaller communities and disadvantaged get the protections that they deserve. thank you all for your hard work. >> thank you mr. chair man. >> thank you for making time to be hereou for all of your work n the legislation. i want to close by thanking each of you for joining us. some as far away as philadelphia just up the road from where my family and i live and some from my native state ofof west virgia

and one from onef of the great football venues. if i had time to ask one more question i would ask about the future but we don't have time for that. we can talk later. but on a more serious note, i just want to say this is a serious issue as you know. in this committee it's why we don't have a good quality of life and its incredibly important for our plan and all llof us that are fortunate enouh to share this planet. speaking of shared, there is a shared responsibility with respect to providing wastewater sanitation and clean drinking water. it's not on the federal government or state or local governments or the utilities or

customers. with the implementation of the bipartisan water and wastewater legislation that we passed we are going to be doing a better job at the federal level of bringing our responsibilities on this front. senators are going to be allowed to submit questions for the record and they will be allowed to do that by 4 p.m. on wednesday march 209th about two weeks from today and we will complain all those questions and send them onto each of you and ask you to try to respond to them if you will by wednesday, april 12. if you could do that for uso tht wouldad be most grateful. additionally a number of statements for the record from a

wide range of stakeholders and i would ask unanimous consent at this time to enter these statements. i would like to make the unanimous consent request while i'm the only senator in the room because the only person that can object is me and i never object to my own unanimous consent requests. that would be a first. but on a serious note, my mom passed away a number of years ago, born right outside of the county and my mom is a deeply religious woman and use to drag my sister and me to church, very close to where w we lived right outside. she would drag us to church every sunday morning, every sunday night, every wednesday and most thursday nights and people would say do they have church on thursday nights, we did.

and more often than not we would watch billy graham on tv. one of the things my mom was intent on instilling in my sister and me is treated that people the way you want to be treated which is what wee try to do in this legislation if you will and. matthew 25 looking out for the least when i was thirsty what did you give me to drink. we touched a lot today but even some scriptural and i like to close with the idea that there isre a moral responsibility here as well not just an economic imperative but a moral imperative. i think we are all trying to meet and reach that imperative and we thank you very much for being a part of all of that. ..

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