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Understanding 9/11tv U.S. Senate Sens. Sanders and Durbin on Russia Ukraine CSPAN February 10, 2022 5:11pm-5:49pm EST
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sexual harassment and assault charges and bearing them are over. arbitration has a place and it can be a good place to when you sign a document multiple pages just to get a job you don't know what you are signing. we are saying you aren't going to sign away your life in terms of having your dayn in court if somebody treat you poorly. the defendant has wrote us due process, which they should but the abusive arbitration to perpetuate sexual harassment and sexual assault inthce the workpe is soon to be over and soon to be done away with. thank you senator schumer thank you senator gillibrand and all of my colleagues on the republican side, thank you. this is not bad or business, this is good for america. >> senators bernie sanders and chairman debated tensions between russia and ukraine and
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russia has a legitimate security interests along itsde border wih ukraine. >> mr. president before it began i would like to ask unanimous consent to put in the congressional record an open letter to the russian leadership from the russian congress of intellectuals who states and i quotes the rushing congress are positioned as simple. our role with d ukraine and the west has no moral basis. this is a very brave statement made by russian intellectuals. >> without objection. >> mr. president has i speak today europe for the first time and on most 80 years is faced with a threat of a major invasion, a large nation threatens a smaller less
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powerful neighbor. surrounding it on three sides with over 100,000 troops as well as tanks and artillery. my colleagues as we have painfully learned wars have unintendedin consequences.he they rarely turn out the way the planners and experts tell us they will. as the officials who provided scenarios of the role of vietnam, afghanistan and iraq only to be proven very wrong. just ask thehe mother's of the soldiers that were killed or wounded in action during those wars. just ask the families of the millions of civilians who became
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collateral damage in those wars. vietnam cost is 59,000 american deaths and many others who were wounded in body and spirit. the casualties of vietnam lyles and cambodia are mom -- almost incalculable that they are in the millions. in afghanistan what began as a response to the attack against us on 9/11 2021 it eventually became a 20 year war costing us $2 trillion over 3500 americans who were killed, not to mention tens of thousands of afghan civilians. george w. bush claimed in 2003
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that the united states had quote put the taliban out of business forever end of quote. that's not quite the case. the war in iraq was sold to the american people by fear of a mushroom cloud from iraq nonexistent weapons of masks destruction and led to the deaths of some 4500 u.s. troops and wounding physical and emotional of tens of thousands of others. it led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of iraqi's, the displacement of over 5 million people and regional destabilization whose consequences the world continues to grapple with today.
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in other words, despite all of the rosy scenarios we have heard for those foreign policy and military interventions it turned out that t the experts were wro. and millions of innocent people paid the price. that is why we must do everything possible to find it diplomatic resolution to prevent what would the an enormously destructive war in ukraine. no one knows exactly what the human cost of such a war would be. there are estimates however that come from our own military and the intelligence community thatu there could the over the deep thousand civilian casualties in
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ukraine, not to mention millions of refugees flooding neighboring countries as they flee what could be the worst european conflict since world war ii. in addition of course they would be many thousandsan of deaths within the ukrainian and russian military. there is also the possibility that this regional war could escalate to other parts of europe, a continent with many nuclear weapons and what might happen then is beyond imagination. that's not all. the sns sanctions against russia that would be imposed as a consequence of this action and
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russia's threatened response to those sanctions could result in massive economic upheaval with impacts on energy and gas and oil prices in our country. food supplies in the day-to-day needs of ordinary people throughout the world. it is likely that russia will not be the o only people sufferg from the sanctions. they would be felt in europe and they would be felt right here in the united states and likely around the world. andth by the way we haven't discussed this terribly much, at a time when the scientific community tells us that climate change is an existential threat to the planet any hope of international corp. to address
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global climate change and to address future pandemics would likely give us a major setback. mr. president it should be absolutely clear about who is the most responsible for the looming crisis and that is russian president vladimir putin. putin now threatens to take over the entire country and destroy ukrainian democracy. there should be no disagreement that behavior is totally an acceptable. in my view we must unequivocally support the sovereignty of ukraine have made clear that the international community lempl ndimpose severe consequences on
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putin and his fellow oligarchs if he does not change course. with that said mr. president i'm extremely concerned when i hear the familiar drumbeat in washington of the bellicose rhetoric that is amplified before every war demanding we show strength and demanding that we must get tough, demanding that we must engage in appeasement. a simplistic refusal to recognize the complex roots of the tensions ints the region undermines the ability of negotiators to reach a peaceful resolution. now i know it is not very popular or politically correct the guests in washington to consider the tips of our
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adversaries. i think it's important that we do so if we are going to formulate an agreement. i think it's helpful. one of the precipitating factors of this crisis, one and it's not the only one, and to me russia's perspective is the prospect of an enhanced security relationship between ukraine and the united states and western europe including what russia sees as the threat of ukraine joining the north atlantic treaty alliance, nato and the military alliance originally granted in 1949 to confront the soviet union. it is good to know some history. when ukraine became and ended
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after the soviet union collapsed in 1991 russian leaders made clear their concerns about the prospect of former soviet becoming part of nato and positioning hostile military forces along russia's border. u.s. officials recognized these concerns as legitimate ateg the time. one of those officials was william perry who served as defense secretary under president dole clinton. in a 2017 interview terry said and i quote, this is defense secretary, quote the last few years most of the blame can be pointed at the actions of putin. in the early years all have to say that the united states deserves much of t the blame.
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our first action set is often a bad direction was when nato started to expand bringing in eastern european nations, some of them bordering russia. thatat is the former secretary f state william perry. another u.s. official who acknowledged these concerns is former u.s. lamet bill birnes who is now the head of the cia under the biden administration. in his memoir burns quotes a memo he wrote while serving as the u.s. embassy in moscow in 1995 in a quote hostilities to early nato expansion is almost universally felt across the domestic political spectrum end
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quote. over 10 t years later in 2008 burns wrote in a memo to secretary of state condoleezza rice in a quote ukrainian entry into nato is the brightest of all red lines for the russian elite and not just putin. in more than 2.5 years of conversations with russian players via object -- anyone who views ukraine as anything other than a direct challenge to russia's interest end of quote. again these concerns were not just invented yesterday by putin out of thin air. clearly envisioned by russia is not an answer and neither is and transactions by nato. it is important to recognize for example that finland one of the
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most democratic countries inel e world has chosen not to be a member of nato. sweden and austria are other examples of prosperous democratic countries who have made the same choice. mr. president vladimir putin may be a liar and a demagogue but it is hypocritical for the united states to insist that we as a nation should not accept the principles of fear of influence. for the last 200 years our country has up. under the munro doctrine embracing the principle that as the dominant power in the western hemisphere the united states has the right according to the united states to intervene against any country
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that might threaten our alleged interest in that united states policy. under this doctrine the united states has undermined and overthrown at least a dozen countries throughout latin america, central america and the caribbean. as many might recall in 1962 we came to the brink of nuclear war with the soviet union. why was that? why do we always come to the brink of a nuclear war with the soviet union? well we did that in response to the placement of soviet missiles in cuba 90 miles from our shore and in the kennedy administration saw that as an unacceptable threat to national security. it is unacceptable for a hostile
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country to have a significant military presence 90 miles away from our shores. and let us be clear the munro doctrine is not ancient history. as recently as 2018 donald trump sacred. state rex tillerson called the monroe a doctrine quote as relevant today as the day was written end quote and in 2019 former top national security adviser john bolton wrote quote the monroe doctrine is alive and well." to put it simply even if russia was not ruled by a oligarchic authoritarian leader like vladimir putin russia, like the
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united states, would still have an interest in the security policy. and i want people to think about this. does anyone really believe that the united states would not have something to say if for example mexico or cuba or any country in central and latin america were to perform a military alliance with the u.s. adversary? do you think members of congress would stand up and say well if you know mexico as an independent country and they have the right to do anything they want. i doubt that very much. mr. president countries should be free to make their own foreign-policy choices. making those choices wisely requires a serious consideration
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of the costs and benefits. the fact is the u.s. in ukraine entering into a deeper security relationship is likely to have some very serious problems for both countries. mr. president i believe we must vigorously support the ongoing diplomatic efforts of the biden administration. i believe we have reaffirmed ukrainian independence and sovereignty and we must make sure to putin and his gang of oligarchs that they will face major consequences if they continue down their current path. my colleagues, we must never forget the horrors that a war in the region would pose and we must do everything possible to achieve a realistic and mutually agreeable resolution 1 that is
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acceptable to ukraine, russia, the united states and our european allies and that prevents would be the worst european war since world war ii. that approach is not weakness. it is not appeasement. bringing people together to resolve conflictsit without wars strength and it is the right thing to do. thank you mr. president. >> mr. president? >> the majority whip. >> i at six requests for committees to me during today's session by the approval of the minority leaders. mr. prezant i've listenedty carefully to the remarks of my friend and colleague senator sanders from vermont. i read is published article in the guardian newspaper yesterday and it paralleled many of the things he said on the floor
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today. we have a very positive starting point and i think my record on voting may be identical to yours if not very close. neither of us want war. as a last resort and it is frightfully addictive bowl with innocent people being killed even in the best military force. secondly i couldn't agree withe you more that we shouldn't be promoting -- should be promoting all that we can in terms of diplomacy. the other night i had the opportunity to be in a meeting with some senators to me with chancellor schultz. he was on its way soon to moscow and presidents macron of france has been there and others are going. encourage the communication that dialogue as much as possible. iha think it is hopeful that the efforts can lead to a peaceful
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resolution and the controversy that we are now facing in ukraine. the third which i certainly agree with, it's certainly an interest of the united states for our values to make it clear that we want to protect and defend not in the military fashion -- and that let me say in a militant -- the notion of sovereignty when it comes to ukraine. it is up to ukrainian people to chart their course in their future. where i think we disagree senator is on this whole question of the sphere of influence. i'm afraid that suggestion is a green light to vladimir putin. you will concede that he is somehow entitled because of the size of this country to reclaim soviet republic or to move into otheror theaters i'm sorry. i have to part company with you at that point.
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i was fortunate enough 30 years ago or so to be on the ground in the baltics when i saw a demonstrationel of courage rarey seen in the world. a nation of 3 million people broke away from the soviet union and scheduled an. free election. i was there at the time the election to place and they knew it was an invitation for mikhail gorbachev to retaliate and he did. he moved into soviet tanks and started killing innocent people and killed an dozen innocent lithuanians who gave their lives because they wanted to be free again and who would question why they would want that? i visited that area. was born in lithuania and had to put that in the record. i was in the area in was in the area in 1978 in my cell at live was like in the baltic states under soviet rule.
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it was sad. it was enraging and it was. they had done to the soviet union to forcibly take those countries and others some through the warsaw pact and some through concession the soviet union controlled every aspect of their lives with communism. i went to the university which i believe dates back to the 16th century. they took me to the catholic chapel which in soviet times had been converted into what theym called a museum and attributed atheism on display in the middle of this former church where it showcases a boomerang from australia. it was a holy space which they were trying to eradicate religion by demonstrating new
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material. i only say this because of when the time came and they threw their core courage and broken the soviet union the cranial latvia and the estonia came to be. they hadn't just in the region is that the polish people who said we don't want to be under the thumb of russia ever again. we won her freedom and we want to decide our future be the only way we can achieve that is if we can ally with the united states. eventually through a lot of hard work and determination that is what occurred. the baltic states along with others joined in the nato alliance and it's worth noting here the nato alliance is a defensive alliance. a gap which links russia as it now exists with colin and grab one of the former soviet republics for a land bridge on
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either side of poland and lithuania still controlled by the russians and they were concerned about it. when the russians for tens of thousands of troops and military exercises on the baltic order in belarus it's understandable they are concerned. they were small country could be easily pushed over. the only thing that saved them was the nato alliance page should ukraine be part of the nato alliance? there are two different and that must be made in the first and mostof importantly they have to decide if theyin believe that'sn their best interests interest for their future. we cannot decide nor should we try to and secondly the nato alliance has deciphered article article v do we want to risk the lives of the nato allies if a event should occur in ukraine? that is what the sovereign nations of poland lithuania led to estonia in so many other countries did when they decided to ask for leadership with nato.
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i don't understand this. it fears that somehow vladimir putin is entitled to a sphere of influence and control. that to me is unacceptable and inconsistent with the notion of yukrainian sovereignty. how can we say vladimir putin is any voice in the process? there is a way we can find a more peaceful situation. if he'll stop being a thug and sending his troops to the borders cutting off gas supplies to countries that he doesn't like. his strong-arm tactics to server response for the united states and i'm afraid simply sending a harsh letter is not enough anymore. we made it clear that he would pay a price the nato alliance has in the price will be a string of sanctions which is included in the legislation with
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senator menendez and i have supported. he has united the in nato alliance and there were some divisions within the alliance some serious and some not serious. we should beer together standing at the fence of the territory of nato allies and making it clear vladimir putin is going to extend his region to ukraine or any other area in political resistance. that's where it should be. i hope it doesn't go any further and i share your feelings on that. i don't want a military situation to escalate and threaten american lives at all. unless we are firm with him now and don't concede that he has any sphere of influence in ukraine i'm afraid he will take advantage of theak situation. i have an open question if you
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have one benefit to have a dialogue. >> i appreciate it. i appreciate my friend from illinois. i i obviously agree with -- and i think maybe a difference of opinion that we have as has something to do with something we don't talk about very often and hopefully everybody knows. i mentioned and i think you'll agree with me that over the last many many decades the united states has overthrown governments throughout latin america. there is no denying that we almost had a nuclear war in the kennedy administration probably correctly that soviet missiles in cuba 90 miles away from us
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were a threat to this country. i would only ask my friend from illinois to put himself into the mindset of russia and that is nobody here not me certainly is not anything that i support. if united states has a right to overthrow countries like latin america to protect our political interests, if there would be an uproar perhaps from you and me as well as mexico and independent nation decided to form a military alliance with or russia could we not put ourselves a little bit in harussia's position and understd that if we consider latin america and central american and caribbean a right to intervene
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that russia itself might have legitimate concerns about military forces five miles from their border. >> it's a legitimate and historic question. if you t are saying in the namef the monroe doctrine to protect ourselves in this hemisphere we have done things which we are not proud of today interfering with the sovereignty of nations the term banana republic emerge from the monroe doctrine and what happened in many of these ndhacountries, they became vesss of the united states economy and i don't say that with any pride. we would want to welcome that to happen in europe in the name of food and exercising sums aired of influence in invading the sovereignty of other nations. my point is know we would not. my point is the monroe doctrine remains in existence today. you and ind can agree that made the united states should not of
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overthrowing governments. two years ago secretary of state said i don't know how many people in this chamber would tell you today, i use that example if mexico was to enter an alliance my friend would say while mexico is an independent country. >> i think that hypothetical is just that. it's only a hypothetical that look at the reality. it wasn't that long ago when ecuador elected a new president and at the inauguration of the present representatives of russia cuba and iran. he wouldn't put many of those countries today on the list of close american allies and yet did we invade ecuador and did we ever considered it? we never considered it. we live in a different time in the 21st century and i understand the monroe doctrine
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in the days of diplomacy and moving a handful of troops and m to take control of the dominican republic. to posit the notion that somehow there's going to be a military alliance and the border of the ceunited states therefore putins entitled to compromise the sovereignty s of ukraine. that doesn't follow senator. >> what i'm saying is two years ago the secretary of state of the united states of america said the monroe doctrine is alive and well and yes of course it's alive and well. do not believe that mexico isn't that all i ask is to put what is going on in russia into a -- with american policy and history as well. this is a complicated issue and i think it's important for us to at least look at the concerned that russia has.
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that putin committed a wonder invading ukraine and we will go as far as we can to make sure there are consequences against the oligarchs and policy. i do think we need to reach a settlement and a very complicated issue. we need to take in consideration a little bit of russia's respect. >> i believe ukraine is not a victim of -- has been a victim of russian aggression for a long time. the leader yanukovich i [bleep] was list deposed in ukraine when the demonstrations took place was clearly the server and vessel of moscow. it was the soviets and i call them soviets, the russians who invaded crimea and reclaim their territory for their own.
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as the russians who sent the little green men with no emblems on their uniforms to invade eastern ukraine and continued to kill in the site ukrainians for eight years now. so it's clear to me ukrainian has been a victim of russian aggression for a long period of time. to suggest the notion that this is somehow within putin's sphere of influence is to rationalize his conduct and forgive his conduct and i'm not about to do that. i don't think we should. he don't put 110,000 russian troops on the border and prepare for war unless you believe the compression that country into so seceding to their demands for ukraine is not a military power. it won't last very long if the russians- do invade. at this moment i think the sphere of influence united states has made its own mistakes in the past and therefore we should look the other way at what putin is doing isn't unacceptable conclusion.
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>> the senator knows i'm not for that. that's not a fair statement. i've said that many times. there would be major major consequences and we have got to do anything we can. ini made my point. >> and i thank you for it i just want to close by saying i see senators t waiting to speak andi would close by saying i hope very soon in the next couple of weeks to make a trip to poland into the baltics and i will tell you the people of polish dissent and ukrainian dissent and baltic dissent in the state ever-present are watching these events by the day. they lived through a soviet takeover of our country and they understand what happened to their basic freedoms of speech and political expression and religious belief as a result and
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they don't want to return to those days. the united states is committed to their democracy and their values and i think we have demonstrated it. i sincerely hope putin does not take advantage of the situation in invade ukraine. we should have the type of response he will never forget if he does and i yield the floor.
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