presidency, ronald reagan's white house political affairs director and historian on reagan's campaign for the white house. >> reagan just cleans up in new hampshire. he wins two to one and such momentum that it's a good thing we won by such a big march because we all were spent most of our money. >> explore our nations passed on american history tv every weekend on c-span3. >> next a litigious policy in syria including the recent drawdown of u.s. troops in the region. the house oversight and reform subcommittee hearing occurred the same to president trump announced a permanent cease-fire in syria between turkey and kurdish forces. witnesses include a representative from the syrian democratic council and a former special forces officer who fought alongside the kurds.

>> the meeting will come to order. this hearing is entitled "the trump administration's syria policy: perspectives from the field" -- >> mic. >> thank you. before i begin i would like to take a moment to remember my friend and our chairman, elijah cummings, though we lost almost one week ago. like others on this committee i had the pleasure and privilege to call him my friend for almost 20 years as we worked work on n issues that have confronted congress and our country. mr. cummings has bequeathed a legacy of compassionate service to those families in our society who still struggle to receive the full promise of the american dream. while we had, he had an abiding faith in the goodness and kindness of humankind, he was firm and his commitment to use hisit many talents, and the powr

of his position, to wait in our behalf of the disenfranchised and to reduce p the suffering tt he saw in this world. elijah lived his life in a meaningful cause, the cause of justice, the cause of liberty, and the cause of equality for all. we and our nation would be well served to follow his example. his spirit and his presence here on this committee will be sorely missed. today we we'll examine the trup administration sudden decision to withdraw u.s. forces from north in syria and abandon our kurdish allies. as everyone knows, a little more than two weeks ago president trump had a phone call with turkish president erdogan. we don't know exactly what the transcript of that conversation revealed but we do know that the white house released the following statement about the call, and i quote it here. quote, turkey will soon be moving forward with its long planned operations into northern syria.

the united states armed forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and united states forces, , having defeated the isis territorial caliphate, will no longer be in the immediate area. close quote. nowhere in that statement is any indication that president trump tried to delay president erdogan plant operation. indeed, i think it could be interpreted data statement facilitated that. nowhere in the statement did white house condemned turkey's invasion of the destabilizing effects would have cost the region. nowhere did a the statement ward about the hundreds of thousands of civilians who would be displaced. only that the united states military would no longer be in the immediate vicinity. and with that, president trump seated virtually all of america's ability to influence events on the ground in northern syria. he abandon our allies, the kurdish led soon democratic

forces, stf, who for years were our partners force and the most effective fighters against the islamic state and iraq in syria. as a result the sdf will no longer be able to apply continued counterterrorism pressure against isis, which will almost inevitably allow them to reemerge. equally concern is that the power vacuum left by the united states is already being filled by the syrian regime, bashar al-assad, russia, and iranian militias here president trump's uninformed, whimsical, and and lifent to loyalty decisions on the phone with the president erdogan will result in disastrous consequences for u.s. national security and is undermined u.s. credibility on the world stage. according to one kurdish fighter, this is a c court, america will never again be able to count on the kurds to fight isis. we don't trust america anymore, closege quote.

this is very important, so let me read the kurdish you again. quote, we don't trust america anymore. close quote. trump's betrayal of an ally and what it says about america will inflict severe damage to american diplomacy, military strategy, and foreign policy fot many years to come. but don't take my word for it. even president trump's most ardent supporters and former administration officials have criticized his decision. mitch mcconnell has described the withdrawal of u.s. forces from syria as quote a great mistake close quote. senator lindsey graham has called the decision shortsighted and irresponsible. former secretary of defense jim mattis said if we don't keep the pressure on them, isis will reemerge. it's absolutely a given that they will come back. and last week 129 129 of my republican colleagues voted alongside 225 democrats to

oppose president trump's decision to withdraw u.s.ec fors from northern syria. today we have the great privilege of welcoming ilham ahmed, executive president of the syrian democratic council, and marty palmer, a former special forces officer who fought alongside our kurdish sdf allies in north east erie. we're also joined by bernice romero from save the children to butt update on the humanitarian situation in syria as well as emerita torres, director of policy and research at the superfund group and a from different. we're also please welcome john glaser, director for policy studies at the cato institute. a quick logistics note for our members, fus noticed ms. ahmed -- ms. ahmed is a company today by a translator, mr. civiroglu which require additional time to interpret russians and answers

between members and the witnesses. while i tend to hold members to the usual five minute time limit questions, i will allow extra time at my discretion if i determine that fairness requires granting a member additional time whether that member is democrat or republican to question ms. ahmed here i'd like to again thank all of our witnesses for your will is to help this committee with its work. the chair now recognize the rankingg member mr. hice for fie minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you very much, mr. chae appreciate your comments about chairman cummings. obviously he and iming on this side disagree on many issues. i will say he was always very respectful and i had many conversation with him outside of this room and he was always respectful and will be greatly missed, and appreciate your comments. and appreciate having this hearing today, likewise what to

think all of our witnesses for being here, special what to think mr. palmer for your service to our country. but regretfully many members today cannot be a because of the house majority having created a scheduling conflict. mr. chairman, as you know the house majority has scheduled a deposition today as part of the illegitimate impeachment inquiry as a result the house majority has forced members to choose betweenn this hearing and the deposition. and despite the importance of this topic, i believe the choice was unfortunately very easy for other members to make. arbitrary rules imposed by chairmanship have created an unprecedented secrecy around the inquiry. next week members will be able to review the transcript of this hearing and follow-up withmb additional questions at our leisure. but the deposition in this

partisan impeachment inquiry is not so cut and dry. the rules on who can't access and how to access deposition transcripts are unclear and constantly changing. members of this committee have sought to review transcripts have been turned away. let you e transcript, chairmanship has now insisted that will give members have democrat staff babysitters and who knows what other rules are coming. with changing roles shifting targets and unprecedented lack of chimpanzee the democrats impeachment upwards in the man demand report again members hold this to attention. back to the topic today. i'd like to say the videos

emerging of individuals throwing rotten food at u.s. soldiers is important. both minimum and put everything on the line to further the goal of a safe and secure syria and should not be treated that way. the beginning in 2011 syria has been in a state of unrest and it began with the arab spring which led to a war all of the previous administration stood on the sideline. then-president obama through his now infamous red line. president obama said it syria dictator asad was to use chemical warfare's it would warrant the united states military intervention about a year later when asad did use chemical weapons on his own civilians the obama administration gave the keys to russia in negotiating with syria. while there are now fewer chemical weapons in syria syria has gained significant influence. when he used chemical weapons in 2018 president trump to not bulk

but instead wants to military strike of the significant sending a clear message to the assad regime that these chemical offense will not be tolerated. the continued efforts by the trump administration has led to the defeat of the isis caliphate and a significant weakening of islamic extremism in that region. a few weeks ago present dropped announced the decision to withdraw troops from the border between syria and turkey. the role of the u.s. military is to protect vital u.s. interests, not to be a unilateral nation for armed insurgencies against a nato ally. previous administrations actions from from arming insurgents in latin america to intervening in iraq in libya have proven unilateral military action can indeed the problematic. in this situation it is no different. the syrian democratic forces of u.s. backed insurgency is

comprised of members of the ytd, the ytd is a sponsor group of the pkk. if the u.s. and turkey registered foreign terrorist organization. it's no wonder why turkey is uncomfortable with this alliance. an article titled why is turkey fighting the kurds in syria in "the new york times" further explains the connection and mr. chairman out asking endless content to submit this for the record. >> without objection. >> thank you. sure everyone in his room as well as the trump administration as a whole is devoted to the safety and security of syria and the surrounding region but moreover, since were spending today discussing borders i think it's appropriate time that we recognize that the turkish syrian border is almost 6000 miles away. while no question this issue does merit review it's

concerning to meet the democrats are more focused on the border crisis 6000 miles away then the crisis at our own southern border. during fiscal year 2019 alone customs and will patrol apprehended almost 1 million migrants at the southern border. it's an 80% increase increase over the previous year. many having criminal records. i continue to call my democratic colleagues to provide our lot was meant many women the resources they need to solve this crisis. again, mr. chairman chairman i want to thank you for this hearing and each of our witnesses. i look forward to your testimonies and questions i had and i yield back. >> i think the gentleman. just as equivocation rules for access to hearings and depositions have not changed. at least in the past ten years. continue as they were under the republican-led house and those rules are still in place today. hopefully - i would beg to

differ but this is not the time. members are not allowed to see those pins gets. >> we are honored to be joined today by executive president of the syrian democratic counsel, he has been part of the kurdish struggle for freedom and democracy since the 1990s with particular with particular focus on women's rights. she joined today by a translator. i would like to thank you for being here and for your sacrifice on behalf of the international community in the fight against isis. we are very pleased to welcome mr. marty palmer, graduated from the united states military academy at west point and served combat tours in iraq and syria. he was what they tell us macarthur leadership award for outstanding leadership. he's not pursuing his mba at columbia business school.

thank you for your service. thank you for helping this committee with this work. director of programs of research and in her ten year career as u.s. foreign service served up a medic tours in brazil, pakistan, colombia, washington dc and the u.s. mission to the united nations. she is also a graduate of new york in diversity in the harvard kennedy school. we are fortunate to welcome the senior director of the international humanitarian policy and advocacy at save the children. she worked for several years as the advocacy and campaign director where she oversaw the international campaign of humanitarian crises, trade, aid, climate change, food security, health, education.

oftentimes they are not recognized for the work and tech guys in the way they said so i thank you all for being here and your service. we like to welcome mr. john glaser, director of foreign policy studies at the cato institute, his research include grand strategy, u.s. foreign u.s. foreign policy in the middle east, rise of china and the role of status and prestige motivation and international politics but he is been a guest on the variety of television radio programs and is the co-author with [inaudible] of fuel to the fire how trump made america's broken foreign policy even worse and how we can recover. mr. glaser, thank you for being here today. we we look forward to learning from your policy. i now like to ask the witnesses to please rise to be sworn in and include the interpreter. raise your right hand.

do you swear and affirm that has money to about to get is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you got? let the record - thank you. let the record reflect that the witnesses have all answered in the affirmative. microphones are sensitive so make sure he please pull them up so you can be heard. without objection your written statement will be made part of the record and with that you are now organized for your oral presentation of your testimony. [speaking in foreign language] translator: i like to think the campus for their support and for this opportunity. [speaking in foreign language] translator: my condolences for your colleague. [speaking in foreign language] >> came from syria.

and there was a heavy fight ongoing for years. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we have lived in that war moment by moment and at the same time by going for the future. [speaking in foreign language] translator: our people with christians we build a society together and liberated 30% of the syrian land. [speaking in foreign language] translator: all faith in our religion are free to express themselves freely.

[speaking in foreign language] translator: syria is christians and muslims. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we continue to live in harmony after isis. [speaking in foreign language] translator: in the fight against isis we lost 11 fighters. [speaking in foreign language] translator: 25 people were disabled in the fight. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we appreciate american forces for their fight for us.

[speaking in foreign language] translator: after they liberated these areas they had not give opportunity to show what we worked for. [speaking in foreign language] translator: all this increased threats over us. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we had a good relation with the u.s. government enforces. [speaking in foreign language] translator: in terms of fighting against isis but also realizing our hopes to build a democratic future will build stability in the region.

[speaking in foreign language] translator: they told us if we continue fighting -- [speaking in foreign language] translator: we been together to work together. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we will be in syria until the political solution is achieved on the ground. these other promises. [speaking in foreign language] translator: then we came under attack and they told us we have no power so we cannot help you. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we were told where our forces exist we won't allow attacks. [speaking in foreign language] translator: for those reasons we thought american forces and trusted them. [speaking in foreign language]

translator: we believe we thought when there was an attack in the region we do not expect them to fight on our behalf but we were sure they would do that. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we put our hope to coexistence to live together with the people in the region. [speaking in foreign language] translator: one day before the attack we were under assumption that the airspace would be closed by the u.s. [speaking in foreign language] translator: the established -- we agreed upon to prevent attack

of turkish state. [speaking in foreign language] translator: through our forces we destroyed the trenches on the border and we put our heavy weapons for joined forces that have already stopped. [speaking in foreign language] translator: unfortunately, after the phone call we were told it would be open in our forces would be withdrawn from the border area. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we were shocked and puzzled. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we did not hope this would happen. as a result of this we found out

the fight with turkish state and we defended ourselves. turkish government came and fought against us. [speaking in foreign language] translator: forces us to fighting against isis [inaudible] without any reason. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we never had any threat against the turkish. [speaking in foreign language] translator: as a result of this war around 300,000 people are displaced. 250 people killed. the majority of these were kids and children. [speaking in foreign language] translator. people have disappeared,

unaccounted for. [speaking in foreign language] translator: moreover, a city was devastated for mortars and airstrikes. our forces were killed. [speaking in foreign language] translator: open excuse executions took place. [speaking in foreign language] translator: the turkish government has used a crime against humanity. they've used chemical gas. [speaking in foreign language] translator: until now were not able to do this inspection

because we don't have means to get perspective. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we very much want to stop this war. we were always told we cannot stop it. [speaking in foreign language] translator: as of now 32 kilometers in death death are occupies by turkish states. [speaking in foreign language] translator: there are many ices

under the name of [inaudible] [speaking in foreign language] translator: they swear that they will behead you. and they chant the same slogans of isis. [speaking in foreign language] translator: they are called opposition but they are different form of isis which are put forward by turkey. [speaking in foreign language] translator: there were some attacks against isis numbers but many escaped. [speaking in foreign language] translator: from the family's 600 people escaped.

six front isis fights and two in belgium. [speaking in foreign language] translator: ten more escaped but we don't know what nationality they are therefrom. [speaking in foreign language] translator: there's a big risk that the safety of international and the u.s. can be unaffected again. [speaking in foreign language] translator: the guy who carried out the new york attack is under detained by us now. [speaking in foreign language] translator: there are some turkish government that will take care of this and this is wrong. [speaking in foreign language]

translator: our geography is now divided. [speaking in foreign language] translator: the group group controlled by turkish government is technically us to drive. [speaking in foreign language] >> you have to instruct the witness that we are over time. [speaking in foreign language] translator: one of her female friends, a buddy, was mutilated and they sat on her body. >> understand you have photographs. i'd like to make a motion that her photographs are entered into the record but i understand numbers have been provided copies but if you are willing to

submit the originals we will put those into the record. [speaking in foreign language] translator: we suspect chemical gas use. [speaking in foreign language] translator: christian kit has been murdered and the displacement of civilians. [speaking in foreign language] translator: this was a female fighter in her body was mutilated in this photo. and five.

translator: these are the soldiers that the turkish government is claiming to be the opposition. [speaking in foreign language] >> thank you for your testimony with mr. palmer you're not recognized. >> chairman lynch, thank you for inviting me here today. my name is martin palmer and appear to testify to my personal experience working alongside the syrian democratic forces during my time in active duty. it's common under u.s. policy strategy in syria. by way of background after graduating from us point in 2009 as benign dollars years in the army as a special forces officer. during my military service of his awarded a medal and two bronze star metals and at 2018 recipient of the general douglas

macarthur leadership award. i've served three display deployments. i left active duty in july of last year. and 2017i spent seven months in syria serving as the commander of a special forces attachment and drain the supplement by team of green berets partnering with the sdf of which the kurds comprise a large portion. through combat operations as operas and the commitment, dedication and resilience of the sdf. their efforts proved critical to our ability to combat the islamic state. during the coming patrol of the frontlines team and i received perspective fishing on fire from all positions. upon receiving contact the sdf soldiers fought alongside the attempt to locate and destroy the enemy positions. within minutes sdf area commander right my position with

additional soldiers and was by my side during the fight even as bullets peppered our position we were able to illuminate the threat. this day invite mentality is not what i witnessed in other partnered forces during my previous departments to the middle east. this is the first of many experiences in syria when i observed commitment, bravery and dedication of the sdf is a partnered with mike detachment against the fight of the islamic state. the kurds were an effective partner force and made remarkable progress and track the state and liberating several key islamic town including the software claimed caliphate of rock. the kurds raise their hand to fight these allstate went to many did not. i witnessed the successes on the field regularly. they fought with discipline and resolve. on numerous occasions when the sdf meeting with arthur areas recently liberated the syrian villagers cheered and even cried. a moving testament to the

immense contrition the sdf have made to liberate people from the horse of life under the islamic state. the success came at a cost. at the of cassidy's were regularly and the tragic occurrence with thousands of soldiers giving allies for this mission. during month operation these allstate fighter detonated a car bomb in one position of the sdf unit with the most partner. the car bomb killed eight soldiers and wounded close to a dozen more. my team provided first aid for the wounded and many had gruesome injuries. i saw% the very real and powerful way the magnitude of the sacrifice the kurds are making in the fight against the islamist state. moreover, they continued their offense the next day to mistreating resiliency and commitment that was prevalent throughout my deployment. our relationship was a true and critical partnership and just admitting benefited from their tactical abilities the sdf could

not have been as successful against these allstate without our support. during one operation fighters were in with a few hundred yards of our objective and started received sustained fire and suffered several casualties. they do not have the capabilities unilaterally suppress the threat and were prepared to draw to prevent further casualties within days of hard-fought gains. however my team is able to provide the necessary combat power to ensure the safety of the sdf and successfully press forward with their mission seeking is a state position. this was a medic of our relationship with the sdf and a partnership partnership built on mutual trust, support and necessity. these examples are a few of the many instances that illustrate how valuable the partner for mike detachment. sdf should shoulder to shoulder and fought courageously and effectively time and time again. their loyalty and dedication is pervasive in every operation.

i will always value the relationship my team had with them and will never forget the sacrifice he made to beat the islamist state. thank you again, mr. chairman. i hope my testimony will help shed light on what is like to work shoulder to shoulder with curtis soldiers to seven months of my diploma to syria. thank you. >> thank you for your service and your willingness to testify before this committee. mr. torres went out recognized for five minutes for a presentation of your oral testimony. >> thank you. thank you for hearing my testimony today. today i will emphasize the perceived consequent as of our policy reversal in syria on our ability to defeat isis. the president's decision to withdraw u.s. troops from northern syria which allows for turkish military invasion is a foreign policy that has plunged syria further into chaos. beyond lives lost, deal

political conferences the scar on your desk ability the decision is a gift to isis. with an hours of the announcement to isis suicide bombers attacked the base of the syrian terra-cotta forces. isis social media has really marked the sdf over the last week calling it an abandoned american ally and isis websites supported 27 attended attacks against the sdf in the weeks following the invasion compared with an average of ten attacks over over each of the previous three weeks. leader of isis emerged as the followers to free jihadists from detention camps in an attempt to replace its breaking the wall campaign. in august 2019 respected general report concluded there was a resurgence in syria and [inaudible] while they that was

considered the end of the physical caliphate remnants of isis still exist. this includes sleeper cells. the group maintains a footprint to a bevy of groups. should be greatly concerned about the conditions of the prisons for 12000 isis fighters are being held by the syrian democratic forces. sdf made clear on before the troop withdrawal that they lack the capacity to contain the fighters. following the turkish invasion sdf has been departing these positions leaving the presence honorable. there have been no concrete plans about how the prisons will be secured and now the night states has abandoned the kurds by willie beck them to do us any more favors. isis bulletins civilians are escaping prison camps. last week they had knowledge several isis militants crossed into iraq and according to belgian authorities five other citizens are no longer present

in sdf controlled locations. over 800 people at the leader with isis largely women intolerant have escaped a camp in north syria. a whole camp hosted 70000 people is proving to be a briefing ground for isis is pro isis's of the site summarizes our radicalizing and organizing in the camp. the overcrowding, like a security and squalid conditions of the camp recipe for disaster. we know how this movie ends. tens of thousands of iraqis were held in u.s. citizen centers including [inaudible] and these overcrowded camps on next generation of terrorists emerged. these prisoners became the future but hold or put soldiers of isis. the groups leadership breaking the wall skipping with thousands of fighters. the issue of overcrowded detention centers sponsored another wave of terror and was relevant again once in syria.

they maintain provinces from syria to indonesia and across the middle east. the group has planned or inspired heinous terrorist attacks globally including in the united states. isis ability to organize to not be underestimated and the risk of prison escape must be taken seriously. u.s. policy change in syria has empowered our adversaries and betrayed our allies. the kurdish forces have been the u.s. most trusted partner inviting isis over the last five years. kurds lost 11,000 fighters in the battle and taken up the immense response fully regarding 120,000 people in camps and prisons across syria. the presence of u.s. troops on the border even small number was intended to both support the kurds as they engage in fighting for us and to serve the tripwire

to deter attacks. i conclude by highlighting three recommendations. first, military options should never be the only solution to conflict. we need diplomacy with the united states should encourage turkey to pursue dialogue with the kurds. second, isis is researching and we need a plan. we must mitigate the risk of escaping isis fighters to ensure they cannot cross borders into neighboring countries. to do this we need to have open lines of medication with the powerbrokers in the region. third, western governments must take responsibly for the citizens and isis prisons and camps. they should take their citizens back home where they can undergo risk assessments, have prosecution and engage in reintegration efforts. ignoring the problem will only fuel the cycle of marginalization and grievances and attract individuals to join terrorist groups in the first place. in closing, u.s. troop withdrawal from syria is self-defeating and damage to the

american ability and walks back much of the hard-earned gains made by the sdf and the noble coalition to defeat isis. thank you for the opportunity to testify today and afford to your questions. >> thank you ms. torres. ms. romero went out recognized for a five minute presentation. >> thank you i first want to think chairman lynch for this hearing and the opportunity to speak to the community in crisis that is devastating syrian communities. humanita the humanitarian needs across syria remain a staggering levels. nearly 12,000,000 people are in need of humanitarian assistance. 5 million our children. in fact, half of all children living in syria have grown up knowing nothing but war. save the children has reached millions of children inside syria andro in refugee hosting countries. we have seen how children suffer in this conflict enduring physical mental wounds that may be irreparable. with schools closing minimal support for mental health, i we are witnessing in real time the loss off a generation. my remarks will focus on three topics, northeast syria including the impact of recent hostilities and issues related to foreign families went to

isis, northwest syria and finally the regional refugee response and writing threats of forced returns. in the past two weeks more than 160,000 people including more than 70,000 children have been displaced in the fighting in northeast syria. many are living in camps and informal settlements which are short on humanitarian supplies and basic infrastructure. despite the recent cease-fire announcement we have seen continued hostilities. children have been killed and injured in the fighting, health facility in schools have been attacked and other services have been shut down. save the children is assisting the newly displaced by providing goods and services such as psychological first aid, education, nutrition and health screening. while we and others are able to continue our programs in some areas this new instability has restrained the response with many ngo offices of program suspended or close down. there is much use, it can do to help improve this situation. primarily the u.s. must wield its diplomatic leverage to press

for lasting cessation of hostilities,f protection of civilians and unobstructed humanitarian access. while immediate need such as medical care and food must be a priority the u.s. and other donors cannot forget about the medium to long-term needs of the displays including mental health and psychosocial support as well as access to education for the hundreds of thousands of children caughts up in the violence. further complicating the situation is the presence of thousands of foreign women and children with perceived or real affiliations of armed groups such as isis. in the wake of the comic with isis in syria and iraq a large population of foreign nationals haveve been living in displacemt camps across northeast syria. 12,304 nationals have been present in three camps. thiss includes 9000 children frm more than 40 different nationalities, more than 8000 of these children are under the age of 12 while more than 4000 are under the age of five. save the children is operational in the annex which houses for

women and children the conditions have of a challengi. before recent events critical gaps existed across all sectors including health, education and protection. the form of children trapped in syria are victims of the conflict and must be treated as such rather than look at as terrorists. many were brought or traffic into syria or were born there over the course of the conflict. given the life-threatening dangers they and the families face, save the children calls on governments to repatriate them to the country of origin. we thank the u.s. for its policy of repatriating american citizens in these camps and for oppressing other nations to do the same. to ensure childy protection mut take place as soon as possible while still feasible. we can't forget about the massive needs in the northwest. in 2019 conflict and01 displacement has raged across idlib were nearly 3,000,000 people in need of kinetic and assistance, half of of which are children save the children is calling on all parties to de-escalate the conflict and support a cease-fire. u.n. security council resolution

2165 ensures cross-border dimension access into syria from turkey and iraq must be renewed big u.s. leadership is keyed to ensure the violation of fundamental human rights and international laws designed to protect civilians this not become the new normal. finally, we can't forget the millions at syrian refugees. refugee response funding needs have doubled over the past five years. the u.s. must continue to allocate robust funding with refugee response and press othersam to do the same. efforts by some host governments to repatriate refugees back to unsafe areas in syria is particularly concerning 50 u.s. has been clear about its opposition to force returns and must continue to stress returns of refugees or asylum seekers should be voluntary, safe, and dignified. 100 years ago to save the children's foundress of every war is a war against children. syria is no exception. yet before recent events the world barely seem to notice. the dangers that once had lied about turkey's they pick the

conflict was again fall off the radar screen even at its impact on syrian children continue to sustain political engagement by american leaders and support for theen american response will be needed been more s than ever. thank you. >> thank you,ha ms. romero. mr. glaser, you are now recognized for five minutes for an oral presentation of your testimony. >> mr. chairman,, ranking member hice and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the privilege of having meir here to speak today. the united states became directly involved in syria early in the civil war. the focus was on undermining the assad regime and by providing aid to various armed opposition groups. primary security rationale for increased involvement in syria in recent years was to destroy isis, and all the remnants of the group remain, that objective is largely been met and makes good strategic sense to withdraw. i'll see at the outset that the manner in which the administration initiated this withdrawalal was clumsy and injected unnecessary risk and

instability. i will address that more any minute. the justification for a continued u.s. military presence in syria have expanded well beyond the initial reason for their deployment. it went from defeating isis to protecting m the kurds, pushing back against russian and arena influence in the country, serving as as a buffer to prott israel from regional enemies, helpinglu usher in a post assad syria, and nowow apparently securing oil fields. this is a classic case of mission creep. it amounts to letting the united states slip further into a middle east war without clear objectives, without serious scrutiny about what is achievable, and without a public debate that includes a vote in congress authorizing the mission. there have been a number of contradiction and our syria policy. we knew undermining the assad regime and create a power vacuum in significant portion of the country might generate more instability and live in a

dangerous rebellion and yet we continue to pursue this policy. we knew there were substantial numbers of jihadist terrorists within the opposition groups bue we continued to aid them until recently. turkey is a nato ally who sees theen kurdish population along e turkey-syria border as a security threat and yet we have pursued a topical alliance of convenience with the kurds to our isis. suffice it to say, aiding and arming and aligned with the two ever sale entities has not only contradiction of sorts but seems destined for an inevitable and bitter transition away from that. it was a mistake to offer or even implied any promises to the cards that we were not fully prepared toio deliver. an autonomous kurdish state in northern syria was implausible scenario, given the situation on the ground and the extent we let anyone believe that was our objective it was a mistake and if they put the more danger. with regard to the presence of

this withdrawal, the president ordered this change in policy completely outside the interagency process and that makes for a messy implementation. the administration failed to employ sufficient diplomatic muscle to help carry out a responsible withdrawal. the deliberate -- we should've had a deliberate dialogue with turkey, for example, long before any announcement to withdraw as distasteful as it may be the use probably should've worked with damascus to facilitate a formal arrangement with the kurds that would allow syria to reassert its sovereignty over those territories and thus prevent a kurdish incursion and attack ont the kurds. .. reports suggest the current administration discouraged those talks.

just such an arrangement is what is falling in place between the assad regime and the current forces. the u.s. central command, signing on to that approach. they probably should have sought some cooperation with russia. they want to prevent the reemergence of isis. moscow has. leverage over damascus. these are opportunities for diplomacy to take place, but it did it. the diplomacy was the best tool for serving u.s. interest in syria and allowing a smooth and responsible a draw going forward. the united states should pressure turkey too refrain from tactics. washington should lend quiet support to negotiations.

not seek to be an active participant. a very poor track record no one should expect them to have much tangible impact in this case. should the united states determined that a future military deployment to syria is necessary, is it incumbent upon this body to openly debated and ultimately to vote on authorizing the use of force. a decision to keep residual forces there or read a ploy at a later date is some subject to the prerogatives. i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you. putting a finer point on that, i do know from yesterday's testimony, the special referee in a special envoy to the global

coalition was not consulted in this decision. at this point, i would like to welcome my neighbor and colleagues. ms. presley of massachusetts. we welcome her to the committee. i'd also like to welcome mr. massey from kentucky. i'd like to make a motion to allow them to participate and engage in any questioning when that time arrives. b without objection, so ordered. i now yield myself five minutes for questioning. >> a number of us on this committee have been to all of the syrian refugee camps. going back to, you know, the early the early days of conflict between assad regime and some of

the rebel groups and elsewhere in syria. we travel to the north of aleppo , we went to peru where many of the refugees fled. also the camp in jordan about 85,000 refugees. what do you know, that was all before, before the turkish incursion that we are now witnessing. is there any data, any information that you have with respect to the current situation, what may have been exacerbated i the withdrawal of u.s. troops and then the subsequent invasion by turkish troops in that violence? what

has that done to the flow of refugees to these camps and elsewhere? >> microphone. >> we don't have hard, hard numbers yet. the situation changes changes every day. basically, what we haveee seen s movement from the populations that were in the area where there has been violence. and further south. they have been setting up in kind of informal shelters. taking over schools. different buildings. you have very overcrowded conditions. difficulties delivering services there and reaching people there. they had to withdraw their international draft. delivering services to the populations as much as possible. they are operating and very secure environment. some of them, actually

themselves, they decided to leave for fear of the changes that may happen. fears of violence because of what is going on. we have seen in the news thousands of people moving into iraq. we think that the camp that was set up there will be at maximum capacity by tomorrow. >> are great. >> the jordanian kids go to school in the morning to early afternoon. they come in and go to school fromom late afternoon. it is amazing that the jordanians, actually, beirut, the similar situation were

similar kids are going to school in the morning and refugee kids, in the same schools. very generous and gracious by those host companies. still, enormous pressure. we have had an opportunity over the last month myself and other members of this committee to visit algeria, saudi arabia, jordan and afghanistan. asking those governments to repatriate their nationals to went to syria to fight on the side of isis. i would say that the results have been mixed. the responses have been mixed. there has not been this outpouring of willingness to repatriate those fighters because of the radicalized state they are in. how do we tackle this? even countries that have resources, but they are very nervous about bringing those back.

>> thank you, chairman. the first thing we have to recognize is if we do not take these people back to their home countries, we are only redoing the cycle. we are creating another cycle of terrorism if we don't take the citizens back. if we don't provide them with justice in their own countries. what i understand many countries have done, i think in their citizens, they have invested in real by station programs. as far as our sensor is concerned, we have met with other government to talk with them about changing their legal stations. i know some have had a difficult time because their sentencing and their charges allow imprisonment tiered they are scared and concerned about what happens when terrorists have been freed.

you can change our laws. you can change your expectations terrace to rehabilitate and eventually reintegrate. >> my time has expired. i would like to yield at this time to the gentleman from georgia for five minutes. >> full of isis, so to to speak in your testimony. since that time, under what authority has the u.s. utilized to stayze in the region? >> nine. there is no legal authority for u.s. military presence on the ground in syria. what is often cited as the 2001. >> expanded and stretched. to include group.

the abuse of force against al qaeda perpetrated the attack anyone who aided or harbored them. the word associated forces came up. that is actually not in the text we have targeted under this bill, groups that had nothing to do with 9/11. groups that are enemies of al qaeda. groups that did not even exist at the time of 9/11. iraq, syria, afghanistan, somalia, libya. this is a very real real problem >> would it be your opinion that the withdrawal of troops that the president just ordered is really necessary under the current legal framework? >> yes. there is a problem in the fact that he quadrupled the number of troops. i don't think he is paying too much close attention. it is certainly true that congress has not done its job.

i don't think anyone up here would question that. it is a complicated issue. let me ask you this. whether we are dealing with humanitarian need or peacekeeping efforts, whatever, a long-term scale, what kind of legal framework would be necessary. >> if u.s. troops are needed, congress needs to authorize that. u.s. troops should be used in order to defend imminent threats to this territory and its people. peacekeeping mission through the be a different situation.ee in terms of other legal authority, i think we need to pay close attention to the strategic justifications for why we are there. this is substantial academic literature. although we have done a good job in fighting isis and correlating things on the ground, there is a

substantial academic literature demonstrating that when external powers involve themselves in a hacivil war multiple parties, it has the effect of exacerbating and prolonging and intensifying that conflict. that is basically what we have done since the beginning. >> i hear people ask me this when i'm in the district. i think that it is appropriate here. we have some 40,000 veterans hre in america that are homeless. some members go up to 6 million or so. family members who are hungry. and yet there is this constant helping of people in other countries that need help. i am not trying to bullet at that at all. the fact of the need that we have here. how do you respond to them?

>> i certainly think that it is important for this government to have as a priority, its own people. i think what is more incumbent upon it is to not make things worse abroad rather than do no harm. rather than an american problem to be solved. when we do find it worthwhile to go abroad and help people, we often have the bad habit of seeing things only throw military prism. it's almost like it is our only tool. they have a lot going for them and could do things that cheaper cost with greater humanitarian benefits. >> one other question in my time is going to run out. previous administration with chemical weapons redlined and the inaction that came as a result of that. what kind of impact you think

that had on where we are at right now. >> i think the impact has been greatly exaggerated. the issue of credibility. it is taken to be a justification for all kinds of military intervention. states tend to play close attention to the actual circumstances at hand and not extrapolate with other locations and situations. it would have been wrong, frankly, for the united states to bomb syria for punishment of chemical weapon attacks. they have a special place in our minds. the vast majority have come from bombs and bullets. it is patently irrational to pretend like they're especially deadly weaponsal and justify the military action which, by the the way, did not have a

congressional. >> i recognize myself for five minutes. first, i would like the consent that we enter into the record the current issue of the economist magazine. the cover reads, who can trust trumps america. the concept of betraying the kurds. the article inside the magazine goes into greater detail. the subtitle there is removing american troops from syria. triggered an invasion. betraying an ally and trashed the national interest. there is a sub- article underneath that that focuses particularly on the history of the kurds. the subtitle there is america's abandonment caps a century. duplicity.

that is really the subject of this hearing. this is one of the most influential magazines in the world. it is a british magazine. this is apparently what the english world thinks of america's recent policy reversal second focus would be mr. palmer i have the privilege of representing nashville tennessee which is very near fort campbell. i am a huge fan of his special forces. not to take anything away from the 82nd airborne, but i admire you and your career at west point. two bronze stars, a macarthur award. i am proud that you are continuing your patriotic service by willing to testify today. your first hand you of what it's like to fight with kurds by your side and when you pointed out in your testimony how relatively rare it is for allies in the

middl east to stand and fight with you should be testimony that is heard by everyone on this committee. this is one of the few bipartisan issues by congress. a policy reversal was a huge mistake. >> i hope more more republicans will listen to your testimony and understand what a valid ally the kurds have been. this policy reversal is deeply felt but trail.op i want to know today what it will be like. i hope the cease-fire will be permanent.th otherwise, the kurds face one of wothe largest armies in the wor. the turkish army. known to show no mercy.

as the gentleman from georgia repeated, is it just turkish propagandahe? these are deep issues. our allies should not be abused. it goes without saying that most of our colleagues have fought thee defense system. that is not a nato move. i am worried that the fundamental problem here is we have given into russian foreign policy. perhaps even a land bridge. that, to me, is what is here. a tragedy. i don't know if you care to elaborate on your testimony since you are the only person

here who said you have firsthand military experience. >> thank you, congressman. my time in syria, the kurds were very reliable partner force. every combat operation we were on, they were by our sides fighting alongside us. serving commitment to my team and audition as a whole. something that we really valued and enabled our success. >> did they look like terrorists to you? >> congressman, the unit that i worked with, dedicated and had a lot of resolving commitment in fighting the islamic state. >> we would we have been as successful without help of the kurds? >> i cani speak specifically my experience over there. yes they absolutely were

instrumental in our success against the islamic state. >> did they suffer 11,000 deaths and we had six? >> we greatly valued the security that they provided to my team. that added support. it really madefe my unit safer over there as well. >> but that is the disproportionate sacrifice. they suffer 11,000 casualties and we take six. i see that my time has expired. gentleman from arizona is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for your service. we certainly appreciate that. would you agree with me the following recipe, good process gets you good policy.po get you good politics. would you agree with that? >> i'm not qualified to speak on

policy. >> would you care to weigh in on that? gives you good policy gives you good politics. >> seems reasonable to me. >> mr. glaser. back to you. i just want to go through this in my mind to make sure. back in 2013 when obama decided to strike within syria, 2013, congress was put on notice. where they not #at the time, republican leadership and this year under democratic leadership au mf could have been brought up that quick. let me get this straight. we keep hearing everybody talking about the constitutional role of congress. would you consider that leadership from both parties let the kurds down. >> yes. >> interesting. they're thehe ones that dictate the process.

ms. torres. do you believe there are long-term large-scale effort either military is required? >> i think that we need to stay vigilant about what is happening in syria. what is happening and iraq. with regards to the surgeons and isis. continuing to monitor the situation. i think the withdrawal of troops out of syria at this time was a bad idea. especially the way that it was done without any notice or preparation. it has allowed for our kurdish allies to take the brunt of the conflict. it is also left us in a position sswhere we are no longer in a gd position to assess what is happening with isis. we have isis militants and those that are in these camps that are escaping. >> i have limited time.

how many were actually moved from syria. >> i understand about 1000. >> 28 from that zone. moved back into syria. >> 28. that is the number we are talking about. would you agree with me that that's the number? >> a number of things going on. the initial order for trump to relocate about the number that was reported 52-100. i know the president now says 28. relocating somewhere in syria. then things unfolded and it seems to now be policy to a draw all them with the exception of maybe 200. >> what we know of is that there is 28. let me go back through this. i have some limited time. world war ii, a number of allies, did we not, mr. glazier. >> yes.

was one of them the ussr? >> yes. >> what did we do after we won that war? did we instantly try to help? >> excuse me. did we try to help them? no. we engaged in suspicious -- >> the cold war happens. >> yes. >> europeans idea of breaking up the middleak east. was there ate one time a proposl for a different stance? >> my understanding of the history was that wasn't discussion at the time. it did not work out that way. >> let me ask you a question. how long have we been fighting this war on this piece of sand?

>> the united states? >> no. the war of all these people in this area. >> sir, which war are you referring to? >> all of them. has there been any resolve? >> there are number of different conflicts in the region. you have to speak about them specifically to say anything meaningful. >> let me ask the question. we have held the barn storm at the president. we have a stalemate right now. the analogy, doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, is that insanity? >> it would be nice if we tried something a little bit different. >> i should hope so. maybe it is a little awkward the way this has turned out. >> what if it turns out something that can actually work out?

>> that would be to everyone's benefit. i think the reversalro of the process where trump orders withdraw and then we scramble to fix it with diplomacy. it should have been the right way around. >> i yield that. >> mr. welch is recognized. >> thank you. i want to thank the witnesses. your country has suffered soch much for so long. our heart goes out to you. i want to raise a question about how this happens. it really goes to what you say. there are a number of people on the other side of the aisle to have a view and i share it. we should not be in as many of these conflicts as possible. i want to ask some questions about what the consequences are of the way in which the

president of the united states acted with literally no notice to our kurdish allies, thank you , mr. palmer, no notice notice to the state department,t no notice to the department of defense. nobody. we are seeing the creation of an unnecessary and total avoidable humanitarian disaster. that is a concern that i have at this moment. some of the questions that i have are you are in that band that is affected by the turkish incursion. how many people live in that area that is subject to the turkish incursion? >> it is difficult to estimate. i have seen a number in the millions. my colleagues may have better numbers. >> how do we not know?

before the president went in there. how may people would be in the line of fire. mr. palmer, do you have any idea what the population is in that area? >> no. [speaking in nativein tongue] >> approximately 3 million people are leaving. [speaking in native tongue] >> also my hometown. >> what i understood is 160,000 or so people have been displaced this means they are not in their home. they went to bed the night before the president made the

phone call. the day after that, they did not have a home. where did they go? >> some have gone to camps. some have been injured along the way. >> we don't have the camps to accommodate. they are all overfilled already. mr. palmer, one of the extraordinary things about our military is their capacity to the plan to execute the very complicated mission. would it be logistics 101 before you take action that will displace 160,000 people, having some idea of where they will go. >> military strategy as a whole. more focus on counter islamic operation. >> i appreciate you are disciplined. 160,000 people having to leave their homes, can you feel some responsibility because it's the action you're allowing or taking. you will make some arrangements.

>> we willl ask you this. you spoke about inciting force in the extraordinary band of brothers situation that you had with kurdish allies. there were also syrian fighters who were standing up to that monster ashad who was in that area as well. correct? >> most of my operations -- i know other groups are out there. >> there wereig many arab fights who are standing up against ashad. that was a brutal fight there. correct? you are right. the plan should come first. not just the phone call. my friend, you know, do what you wish. what is the peril to the arab

fighters living in many of these cities. now that the russians in the assad regime has free hand to roam around there.an do you have any apprehension that this will occur? >> yes. although i am very critical of the way this was done, it is also true that we should be realistic. >> there will be consequences. we make a voluntary decision on how we will execute. innocent lives are lost. that is not subject to being lost away because it's realistic i want to say to my republican colleagues, there are two issues here. what is our long-term policy. to take an action where there is no consultation, no warning, we

betray allies that have been with us and we leave innocent people at the mercy of people that will get them. i don't get that. that is not what i call america. >> thank you. thank you for sharing your story with us. >> could you tell us and how many nations our military is deployed? >> usually special forces to deployed to more than 150 countries. >> more than 150. okay. >> those are small.

>> okay. could you touch on p some of the partners that play in the region? just brief general history. >> of partners in the region? >> conflict in the region. >> i think the important thing to understand about the specific issue is that turkey has long had a tense relationship in the southeast. there has long been kurds over the border. back in 1998, syria and turkey came to an agreement where they agree to not allow any cross-border kurdish cooperation and direction of operations. it worked effectively using that agreement for the negotiations with turkey. >> is it true that we have been in this conflict and a sense arming what would be both sides

of this conflict? >> well, yes. arming many sides in the conflict. especially early on in the process before the kinks have been worked out. unfortunately, we cooperated cofwith our allies in delivering aid, sometimes lethal aid. that got into the hands. briefly, again, a mission creep. in the sense of our original alteration of being there. did they accomplish their mission. what authorizes them to stay there. >> it is very easy to insert the military into a situation. it is much harder to get them out. when conditions change, new objectives arise.

as a congressman was saying, there are risks inherent in any withdrawal policy. one of the messiest conflicts on sthe planet. getting out is very difficult. >> what is the authorization that has is there? >> there is no legal sanction in syria. >> you mentioned the abruptness. would you say that this was the right thing? the what was right, right, but maybe the how. >> u.s. interest to disentanglet itself from most of the conflicts if not all in the middle east. we should be more clear about what interests are at stake in the unitedot states. not go willy-nilly into these conflicts.es what was the rest of your question?

>> we need to authorize. this has been this incentivized to do. the executive branch, historically, is willing to avail itself. >> i only have a minute. i've a couple more questions to get through. a lot of this testimony was written before the news of the day. very developing story. a couple weeks old. i was happy to hear a lot of discussion about diplomacy. today, it seems seems like news is breaking in which diplomatic efforts are having perhaps some affect. one month ago today, the president was talking about how 80% of the countries in the world people have paid their persecuted. when you sit in our position,

your heart goes out because you wish you could help everybody in the world. we know we have limited resources. we also have an obligation. could you explain when it comes to military activity how the constitution h defines us to prioritize that process. >> the constitution gives congress the authority to determine aem nation's involvemt involvement in hostility abroad and the executive, you know, short of doing an imminent threat that he has to preempt, the president directs those. tends to decide when they end which is unfortunate. yes. there are a w lot of things goig on in the world. i have a pretty narrow conception on what it should be used for. i think it does limit the service to deploy them in situations that do not rise to the level of a serious threat to the nation security.

>> the gentlemen's time has expired. the lady from massachusetts is recognized. >> thank you for holding this critically important hearing today. tumultuous times like these, the critical role of congressional oversight cannot be overstated tiered a regard for humanity and dignity in the world. over the last several days, we have witnessed the bloodshed, lldisplacement and overall humanitarian crisis that can result from self-serving by this administration. we have heard about thealf miliy and national security implications of the administration's removal of sources from syria. however, it is equally important an agency of our kurdish allies whose value cannot and should not be measured solely by their contribution to u.s. interests.

basing yourn national security expertise, how would a diplomatic approach on the front enend paired with a strategic troop withdraw have avoided this violence in the first place? >> thank you, representative. i think did take a stay back as a former diplomat, i participated in the process. under both administrations. i participated and have been on the other side of our administration's leaders have a discussion and debates on foreign-policy and our discussions on what happens next intelligence assessments of what is happening on the ground. talking to stakeholders. i think that right now what is happening is a lack of a foreigt policy process. a lack of a national process. with that in mind, i think that

this entire decision has been barred with a lack of understanding of what is happening on the ground. it is difficult for me to say what should have happened, but what i can say is that there was not a policy process process around what should have happened. >> your organization is on the front lines of helping those that are now displaced due to the humanitarian crisis. how does it affect the ability of organizations like save the children and others to operate in the northeast. >> a lot depends on how things develop. right now we are facing the possibility of the roads that we use to get supplies in two northeast area to reach population. it wille be so insecure that we will not be able to reach certain populations. we know that our national staff

is very concerned. we face a possibility that they themselves will become refugees. we will be faced with a smaller workforce. existing camps where people are able to arrive. the sanitation services, water services being r inadequate. we face the prospect of not knowing where people are. not knowing where to reach them. if we do know how, in order to reach them. it makestiti it a difficult operational environment even more volatile and more in certain. >> i want to focus on another nonmilitary consequence of this

abrupt withdrawal. a key component was to help provide local communities with stabilization assistance tosa enable displaced person should safely voluntarily returned to theirr homes. stabilization can include efforts to establish civiles security, access to dispute resolution, basic services and establish a foundation for the return of displaced people. would you agree with that characterization. >> yes, i would agree. >> can you briefly discuss how they support stabilization efforts in northeast syria? [speaking in native tongue]

by supporting the local and some extent supporting local. [speaking in native tongue] stability and security would be further provided. [speaking in native tongue] for isis would not be allowed. [speaking in native tongue] that included we have a dating society. [speaking in native tongue] >> some certain programs for isis families. [speaking in native tongue] the turkish governments on halt destroyed these programs now isis. [speaking in native tongue]

the region has collapsed. [speaking in native tongue] >> safe zone. ongoing. [speaking in native tongue] the turkish threat continues. [speaking in native tongue] under what international government has been using -- fighting against isis. [speaking in native tongue] american weapons are being used against us. [speaking in native tongue] with what authority against us when we are no threat. >> we are over time.

thank you. >> the gentleman from louisiana is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> is it a factual statement umthat america has troops in the region. >> yes. >> so when we discuss what is referred to as a withdraw of troops, let me say that, i clearly understand that america is conflicted on this, we seek a righteous position in this. when we discussed what is referred to as a withdrawal of troops, we still have massive numbers of troops in the region. would itt be fair to state that this is a movement of troops? >> yes. >> thank you for that clarification. is there a chance that the new zone was stabilized?

>> there is a chance. >> i like to focus, if if we could, i'd like to ask your opinion regarding where we are considering the totality of circumstance as a nation with this turkey serious situation. on one hand, american citizenry read that we serve, ours is to disengage among necessary warfare overseas. on the other hand, we intend to stand by our allies. this is reflected of the conflict that we generally face as a body and as a people. let's talk about our allies. is turkey, in your opinion, ?onducting itself according to nato standards? >> no.

>> do you think turkey should be held accountable for any reported violations with geneva during this conflict? >> yes. >> do you think turkey should be subject to removal from nato? should it be rescinded from nato? >> it should be a tool. >> it should be used to leverage. >> yes. >> given the precarious nature of the military engagement and this region of the world and the conflict as a nation, regarding our own role, in your opinion,

would you share with us, in my remaining two minutes here, how you would envision a righteous solution to where we are. how we got here. we can debate that. >> yes, sir. advise the american people america is watching. t medium long termch it makes sense to reevaluate our entire approach to the region. that includes which countries we are closely allied with and cooperate against. and which ones we are set against. we should have an offshore balancing approach in terms of our military posture. we have rapid response abilitiel we should take advantage of that by and large. i think the saudi relationship needs to be reevaluated.

i think they act against u.s. interests pretty substantially. for variousso reasons, we've ben unwilling to reengage in that evaluation. >> comment if you well on turkey's emerging increased relationship including militaryy relationship, including the purchase of military hardware from russia and as of yesterday, new and negotiated with russia. comment on that, please, in, in my remaining 30 seconds. >> another reason we should reevaluate the way we do and alliances. it has always been add more nato allies with which most people add friends on facebook without considering closely their regional interests. having to adopt the regional interests as their ally. >> thank you for that clarification.y yes or no. would it be fair to consider

that turkey is really the responsible actor here. >> they are one responsible actor. >> thank you, sir. >> i yield, mr. chairman. >> thank you. i would like to recognize myself for the next five minutes and take all the panelists for being here. i appreciate your efforts here today and in your professional experience. mr. palmer, thank you for your service. it is appreciated. thank you for being here and your service under very difficult circumstances to both of you. i want to focus most of my questions on the humanitarian needs as they were before. most of us have had the good fortune, well, for the wrong reason to be able to go to the middle east and go to refugee camps and talk to syrian refugees. hearing about their real life dilemmas of leaving everything they knew in a war situation.

ridon't think they realized, and most americans don't realize the history and the delicacy of relationships in the middle east since at least world war i. in the whole question of whether they should have had a state or not. delicate foreign policy. the human aspects of this i think are getting missed in large part. tell me what the humanitarian needs and demands were before the incursion. talk a little bit about what has happened since. >> since the demand was the same , because the fundamental ask from the humanitarian community is that there be a sensation of hostilities that the civilian protection be upheld. and that humanitarians be given, you know, unfettered access to people in need.

and i think that those are the three sort of big policy asks from the humanitarian community. yesterday, today and tomorrow. the differences a difference i would say in scale. because, now we have additional displaced people. we have a larger population to serve. we have more constraint. if there is not a permanent sensation of hostilities in this area, we will, as i described earlier, struggled to continue to provide services to displace people into refugees we will have bigger funding needs. we will face different crossline challenges. you know, supply lines. different suppliers not wanting to supply us. we have withdrawn a number of our international staff.l they assert an expertise that local staff does not have.

health services are being curtailed in northeast syria because much of that comes from outside expertise. within that psycho socialist support which we see to be a growing need among children especially collecting horrific things. you do not have that kind of specialization necessarily locally. they have their own threats and challenges that they are feeling in terms of safety. the stability of our workforce is also made more vulnerable. the fundamentally, it is those three things. humanitarian access, sensation of hostility and respect for international humanitarian mine for the protection of civilians. >> i want to focus the little time that i have left, can you add anything on northeast syria. on october 18, amnesty international reported that they were conducting indiscriminate attacks in residential areas.

they have displayed a shameful disregard for civilian life. according to amnesty international, eightht groups described that recent fighting has created a combination of worst-case scenarios. happening all at once. is this an accurate assessment? improving are not improving. getting worse. knowing that a cease-fire is what you want first. after the cease-fire, you will deal with a world that hopefully allows some economists governing for the kurds. history tells us that has not been the tendency in these kind of military imbalances. >> for us, whether it is the turks, whoever, whichever party the conflict is, the request is the same.ado this further complicates it because it's an additional party to the conflict.

yes. it will, it has has and will exacerbate the humanitarian assistance. >> any comments? [speaking in native tongue] >> many civilians are harmed. [speaking in native tongue] >> the city has totally been destroyed because of these attacks. >> 80,000 people are are outside without homes. >> they have nowhere to go. [speaking in native tongue] >> taking the situation very

serious. [speaking in native tongue] they were lucky to have their house still over there. they are not allowing people to return. they are forcing them to be displaced. >> this cannot be called cease-fire. >> this means that more people will be killed. >> massacred. [speaking in native tongue] the important thing is they should be protected by constitutional recognition and their basic rights. this administration underground should be recognized formerly.

>> because, all people of the region are in this administration. it is democratic. the integrity of syria. >> thank you. i appreciate it. the chair would like to recognize the gentleman from kentucky. >> thank you, mr. chairman, for allowing me to participate in this subcommittee. is it the goal of the syrian democratic council to establish a sovereign country for kurds or an autonomous country for the kurds? [speaking in native tongue]

>> within the syrian context we want to decentralize context. >> the local administration is set up in all of syria. [speaking in native tongue] >> these all should a be a decentralized system. >> one government. who would provide the military defense of decentralized government? [speaking in native tongue] the local forces are part of the

general forces. >> thank you very much. eas anybody in the u.s. government who you can name say that is also the policy of the united states? [speaking in native tongue] >> to establish that. [speaking in native tongue] >> the u.s. so far has not told us a clear policy. >> the syrian people -- [speaking in native tongue] >> the u.s. for syria, what do they think? [speaking in native tongue] >> the syrian people, we gave them a project.

[speaking in native tongue] >> and we wanted the u.s. to support. we tried to get the u.s. support. [speaking in native tongue]e] >> decentralized democratic syria. [speaking in native tongue] >> there was a hope from the kurds, that no promises from anybody in the u.s. government to establish. .... .... mr. palmer, where did isis get the weapons that you were fighting against? >> we have to be careful about divulging any classified information. >> can you tell us what has been publicly available and where they got their weapons? >> where do the kurdish get >> did they have the courage to get their weapons connect.

>> that fell under our program. we provide them weapons connect. >> yes. >> we not said we would take those weapons away, correct connect. >> not to my knowledge. >> could you walk us through the beginning of the civil war in syria and what the u.s. involvement was or has been? >> there were protests in 2011 and there were harsh response by the regime and it slowly turned into an armed rebellion partially because at the time we had been completing our surge in iraq. >> i've got 45 seconds it tells what the u.s. involvement was in the beginning. >> early on we ended up aiding armed rebel groups in syria. >> this was before the emergence of isis? >> that's difficult to say. yes, technically before the big rise in 2013, 2014 but isis is an outpost of the sunni insurgency that was up to fight u.s. forces in iraq.

hard to see what thes beginning point want be. >> i'd like to ask ms. on that, how many kurds have been displaced as a result of the civil war ended the kurds support that civil war at the beginning and are the kurds better off or worse off now that asad has been destabilized? [speaking in foreign language] translator: [inaudible] [speaking in foreign language]

translator: in my hometown they used to be 800,000 people livi living. displaced people have been running from the regime and coming to our region. 100,000 -- [speaking in foreign language] translator: they became refugees. [speaking in foreign language] translator: for example, people are living in tents but the turkish government doesn't allow those people to return to their homes. they settled. [speaking in foreign language] translator: the families of these groups have set up in kurdish houses. they are [inaudible] and killing and kidnapping. they seized their properties and burned their trees.

properties are all stolen. they carry out the policy of burning off everything in my hometown. [speaking in foreign language] translator: 800,000 kurds are now refugees. translator: there are a number of people who are now refugees. people of [inaudible] and it's a terrible recipe. they are displaced. the policy of massacring is being carried out in these places. >> my time has long expired.

i yield a minute. >> thank you. ms. torres, he said something io wanted to clear up. he said that that no official foreign policy process was followed. >> thank you. to clarify, i noo longer am in the state apartment. i was reflecting on some of the experiences i have had in the past. >> okay. i wanted to make clear who does that foreign-policy in our country? >> so, it's complicated right now to determine that. >> it is? >> i mean -- >> i think everyone inon america know who sets foreign-policy. who defines foreign-policy for our country? >> the president. >> okay. with either also defined the official foreign policy process?

>> yes, it's advising from the department and agencies including the state department. >> does he not have the option to choose who he gets advice from? >> that is the president's prerogative. >> i wanted to clarify that because it's going on in the base of our capital with state farm and officials who don't seem to be sure and aware of who sets foreign-policy for our country. thank you for clearing that up. >> the chair and organizes the gentleman from california for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the president often likes to say on the campaign trail that we will win so much that we would getto tired of it and ask him to stop. mr. president, stop. there are kurdish allies of ours who areie dying in the streets because of your decision against

the advice of those around you to pull out of it syria. in fact, theur only real winners are isis, syria, asad, iran, turkey. we've already talked about the president's decision and how it would enable the return of isis and the syrian regime is backfilling in areas that we have patrolled for quite some time and mrs. torres, have you seen evidence of that already territory that had been held by the united states and has not been held by asad for years being reclaimed by the syrian government? >> i can - can you repeat that last part? >> the lands being held by the kurds with her support from the u.s. is syria taking over parts of that and in that area that has not been controlled by syria for quite some time? >> we have seen reports h of tht what i may defer to my colleagues but we have seen

reports of that. >> and president trumps cease-fire deal turkey turkey denied it was a cease-fire and failed to hold but the parameters of its saison are so clear that it would almost be impossible to enforce any ways. in, testimony front of the senate foreign relations committee yesterday appears the u.s. delegation did not even use a map when negotiating the safe zone with turkey and yes, my colleague is right that the president is the arbitrator foreign-policy and it's unfortunate it looks like the keystone cops are the ones that are driving foreign-policy right now. yesterday turkish president and pres. putin agreed to remove kurdish forces from the syrian turkish border making putin to keep power broker in the region and ms. ahmed, can you you tell us when your reaction to that deal is that took place yesterday? [speaking in foreign language]

translator: this deal [inaudible] 105. translator: up to 20 kilometers left to turkey. [speaking in foreign language] translator: that poses a serious threat in our safety security. [speaking in foreign language] translator: the regime has not done any democratic changes so far. it is the same fatality as it poses a threat for us. [speaking in foreign language] translator: turkish and russian patrol in the regime is very dangerous station for us.

you either have to go or we will let turkey attack you. >> thank you. you've seen the tv coverage of u.s. bases being overrun and controlled by russian forces and how does that make you feel? >> i want to talk to my experience in syria and not necessarily would like to speak >> i'm not asking you from a official capacity but is one who is served the government in our country and how does that make you feel? >> i will not testify to that experiencece. >> ms. torres, any experience in that area? >> i think on our end as an american i think that it's difficult to turn away from allies who we depended on for a

long time protect us from the terrorist threat that we face emanating from isis in iraq in syria. to see that happen so abruptly without a policy process and the policy was hard to swallow. >> mr. chairman, take you for having for having this hearing been submitted over and over foreign-policy mistakes of this administration and what has transpired in ukraine where crimes were committed yet theyy continue to cover up by those involved and who will support this president regardless of the obvious wrongdoing is discerning to all of us. thank you and i yield back. >> i would like to thank all of our witnesses who have come here today, majority and minority witnesses. thank you for your excellent testimony. miss ahmed thank you for being here and for traveling such a long way to provide the perspective that only you couldp provide so we are extremely

grateful for your courage and willingness to commute today. without objection or members will have by the lead state of days within which to summit additional written questions. this will be forwarded to the witnesses for response. i would ask our witnesses to please respond as probably as you are able if you receive additional questions. this hearing is now adjourned. thank you.

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> c-span hosts a conversation tonight with some of the republican candidates mounting primary challenges to president trump and they will take your questions. that is life tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. politico on the unconventional political convention is live for

music city center in nashville saturday at 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. speakers include political pungent and culture and former fbi director and chief political analyst for msnbc and nbc news. political commentators and former minnesota senator. watch live on c-span, anytime on c-span.org and listen wherever you are using the free c-span radio app. >> book tv has live weekend coverage of the texas book festival from austin. starting saturday at 11 am eastern with other discussions on the trump administration immigration policies with new york times washington correspondent. the life and career former un capacitor samantha power and the

effect of disinformation with former under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs. our live coverage from the texas book festival continues sunday at noon eastern with johns hopkins university professor, offering his thoughts on health care. american university professor talks on race and america. be sure to watch our live weekend coverage of the texas book festival starting at 11 am eastern saturday and at noon on sunday. be sure to catch the miami book fair next month on book tv on c-span2. next, state department officials discussed public diplomacy at an event cohosted by the university of southern california and george washington university. this is just under one hour. >> in morning. i believe we are on c-span live so pictures of