variety of national security experts democrats and republicans who have had the highest security clearance on the nature of the van and how it doesn't make sense. >> at that went out objection. we will be in recess for five minutes waiting for other panel club before you leave, i'll just note that the record will be open for five days when you're in which members may ask additional questions of the witnesses and we would ask that you responddi promptly. one of those questions wills. be how we got from 15000 syrian refugees in 2016, 211 this year. only 11 both of that was part of this process or some other process. with that we will be in recess for five minutes and then we will have our second panel. [background sounds]

>> the subcommittees will presume from our recess and i want to thank the witnesses for coming today. i want to introduce the second panel. and apologize. [background sounds] i am looking for the biographies

of the panels. here we have doctor, by mispronouncing a word. the donkey. he's an assistant from of computer science and director of the master science in file monies program. he was born in iran. is now a legal permanent resident living in baltimore, maryland. he holds a phd in computer science. in australia and clause of the band, his wife, who he married in australia 2015, and is filed for an immigrant visa, to come to the united states is unable to come to u.s. to live with him her husband. he also has a phd she also has a

phd and received a post job offer at the university of maryland college park with funded by the national institutes of health. however, clause of man, she is yet to obtain a visa to come and join her husband his well-to-do his distinguished work in the united states. he is the u.s. citizen currently lives in brooklyn, new york. he and his family have also been in acted by the band. today, he remained separated from his wife sister and five -month-old daughter, and one and half -year-old son. his wife is attempted to obtain a visa to return home until recently the band prevented her from doing so. she was in processing for almost three years. before she was approved for a waiver earlier this month. we think this drug is only for taking the time to share his

story with us today. cofounder and president and executive director of muslim advocates in the national at bc and educational organization previously she served as a counsel on the senate judiciary committee and worked on the constitution subcommittee chairman senator russell feingold. prior to working for the united states senate, she worked as a litigation associate with several law firms. current role is advocate, subcommittee on oversight and agency actions total rights in federal courts on the topic of anti- muslim rhetoric and connections to law enforcement. she received her bachelor his degree from college and or doctrines from cornell law school. finally, we have arthur andrew, the honorable is the resident

fellow in law and policy. the senator of immigration studies and former immigration judge with immigration court in pennsylvania. mr. arthur has also served as a former immigration and naturalization service general counsel office and worked on capitol hill as counsel to the house judiciary committee and house oversight committee. he received a bachelor his degree from the university of virginia and a doctorate from george washington university school of law. we welcome all of our distinguished witnesses and thank them for participating in today's hearing. we are particularly honored to hear from the two but as is personally impacted by these policies and commend them for their courage and strength in sharing their personal painful stories with us today. if you will please rise. i will begin swearing human.

>> raise your right hand, do you swear on part penalty of perjury that the testimony you know about to give a stroke and correct to the best of your knowledge information and belief so help you god. >> the record will reflect the each of the witnesses answered the two yes. thank you please be seated. as with the prior panel, each of your written statements will be made part of the record so we do ask that your testimony consume about five minutes. we have a live system so when the yellow live goes on, it means that you've got just a minute left and when the red turns on, it means that you know expired. five minutes have expired. >> u.s. house.

thank you for a service and giving me the opportunity to share my case and how it affects me and my wife. i'm one of the thousands that have been affected by the muslim man and most heavily impacted community iranian. sad stories of separation. people who came here to the united states to start a new live this wonderful country, but like monday others have tried to help make the new home a better place. yet we have been banned for no reason other than were from. it's our story that i would like to share with you. [inaudible conversation] baltimore, maryland, midway wife in malaysia back in 2008. we were both students at a university. after i moved to the united states and started in marriage.

after eight years we are no longer able to be able to be together. we were happily married in 2016, petition for her to join me. this process was going to take up to two years. so she could join me after she completed her phd. in australia it however, our dream is on hold and shattered after the announcement of the muslim man and on national, including iran. this cruel policy through our live in disarray. in 2018, we received an offer at the university of maryland. her embassy there, in the field designed to discolor. wonderful opportunity for her. however despite she was not able

to get a visa out of the united states clause of trouble band. she finally was in february 2019, when you're in which a visa application was denied. we are gratefully just make despite knowing the possibility as result of being the smallest band. [inaudible conversation] egg with the help of ben holland, we followed up after six months in august and had been advised but was told the process would take even longer and unfortunately was no time left. we lost the job offer. and there is no end in sight. denial of her visa has caused our family undue hardship. i miss the companionship.

i am that went out her here. the person closest to me live, i don't know when we will get together again. to go through the celebration and hardship in our lives further delaying this process, and the state university, united us in australia. this would be a loss of my in university, and the united states in general. also have to leave behind my mom and two brothers who live in the united states. it's a very hard and heartbreaking decision to make. our whole hopes to move to united states, for our dreams and build a family and the building of our society. and community. also, program director and supervisor, i happily left susan

behind but there is no thing for me. i have to be that went out my wife. bring delight by love and my future clause of man. i finished to leave you with the knowledge that it is unfair. is destroying our lives. you do not know what is going to happen and how long to have to wait. for all of the races above, we would like to raise her voice to the house of representatives, law and order based on the u.s. constitution. please help us to build our lives and stop this injustice. monday more have a similar story, similar hardships and similar sorrows and sadness. those we hope to call this home of the brave blend of the free. their home. as of this country on the same flag and those can be for them

yet there have been asked clause of the nationalities and religions. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you very much. we will now turn to his mail. >> thinks good afternoon. thank you for giving me the opportunity to share with you. i live in new york, city. one of the greatest cities in the world. i work out of a small neighborhood. in brooklyn. this work doesn't make me rich but i love it. i get to meet so monday people of our race and all religions. i know all of my regular customers by name. when they come to my store, i want to take care of them. today i am here to tell you the story of my pounding. i wonderful live and are two child's, my son was a year and half old and her daughter five

months old. in fact he never even met my daughter yet. i never hold her in my arm. i've only seen her through photos and videos. i do not have words to describe the love that i carry in my heart for my wife and my kids. it hurts me so much this been more than a years as i see my family. we are separated by thousands of miles clause of muslim man. i know i wanted to marry my wife right away after i met her. we fell in love and got married in 2013 before family and friends. she has the best heart and wants to take care of people. in fact she wants become a nurse. she can't do this in yemen she can pursue her dreams in america. we have just been married but i

have to lean behind to go back to america. i had to feed my family. my job was back in brooklyn. i need it to be in the united states and i wanted my family to fly and join me. i thought we would be together in america soon. i am a u.s. citizen. we are married. after the interview in new york, i returned yemen to be with my family. after two long years of waiting, the day before integration interview, my friends and coworkers loaned me the money that i need it for the trip. together we traveled, for the interview. when we arrived, my wife was eight months pregnant with our son. pregnancy had been difficult, dodgers said she had a heart

condition. we note that the muslim man stopped her from injuring the u.s. but we also know the allowed families of u.s. citizens. she should have been eligible for a waiver. i'm a u.s. citizen into my live. she need it medical care for her heart condition. the interview did not go as we expected. they didn't even last five minutes. they return it said it is been denied clause of the muslim man. even though she is my wife, we are not eligible for a waiver. we are stuck and i was able to work there and i was running out. i wasn't sure what to do next. she went into labor one night. for most couples it was a happy occasion but for us it was a terrible experience in our live.

it took me 30 minutes to find a cab. when my wife was in pain. the contractors were coming faster and faster. there's a pilot. my wife gave birth in the back of a cab. i will never forget the site. in the hopelessness i felt. i stand up as long as he could. i had ten months be with my family but i had to go back to new york and provide for them. and she was expecting our second child. blaming them again, it was more painful than i can imagine. in april this year my wife give birth to our daughter back in yemen and it broke my heart that i was there for her. and i've been asked to come back and reinterview for the waiver. i feel awful that we will be together again as a family here.

she will become a nurse and my son and daughter will go to school and pursue their own dreams. i pray you will find it in your hearts to let families like mine be together. please in this band. explicitly. >> thank you very much. good afternoon. i'm the executive director of advocates of national civil rights organization since early 2017, women fighting muslim bad in the courts. in working with congress to right this wrong. members of the committee, thank you for holding this historic hearing. the first congressional hearing on the muslim man.

your presence here it signals commitment to protecting civil rights for all. thank you so much for your courage. you speak for thousands of americans who are hurting today clause of the man. so how did we get here. what can congress do. in january try 17, just seven days after this inauguration, president trump issued an executive order and a people from seven predominantly muslim countries from injuring the u.s. thousands of americans flocked to airports across the country in protest. as court after court ruled, the muslim man was unlawful, the president issued two revised versions of the van. versions that claim to include exceptions and waiver process. immediately after the third ban went into effect, thousands of

blanket denials for visas were issued before individuals even had a chance to apply for a waiver for demonstrate that they were eligible for one. according to recent data from the state department, of roughly 60000 visa applications received when you're in the 16 month period. , only 5.1 percent of the waiver request were granted. and today, there is no waiver process available to the public. as we feared, the so-called waiver process, has been a sham. we believe that the vast majority of the waivers saw it on, involve americans like idella and his mail, seeking to be reunited with the family or individuals seeking urgent medical treatment. there are people a green card holder, married to a u.s. citizen who recently gave birth

and desperately wants her parents to visit from iran so they can hold their grandchild. a somali refugee, increased heart card holder who arrived in 2015, with the promise that his wife and newborn son would soon join him. even though they were approved for resettlement nearly three years ago, they have not yet been allowed to join him here in america. or people like the same, desperately waiting for visitors visa so he can undergo specialized treatment for stage three cancer. treatments he could not otherwise receive iran. the muslim man dehumanizes muslims. evoking dark chapters of our nations history. the story of the jews, irish, italians, the stain of

japanese-american direct camps. each of these groups, which on an isolated. but america prevails. when these groups stop being seen as outsiders and started being seen as neighbors. and that to americans, your neighbors. we are your dentists and patients. your teachers and students. we are our barbers and politicians and even standup comedians. but most importantly, we are husbands and wives and parents and children and brothers and sisters. this is why the muslim man versus deeply personal loophole. clause we know that it is contrary to the welcoming country we aspire to be. here's the good news.

the president and the supreme court's do not have the final say. congress does. earlier this year, congresswoman and senator chris coons introduced the gnomon act. a bill that would terminate the current muslim fan. and with amendola to assure that no president can enact a similar discriminatory plan again in the future. most importantly, it would bring immediately relate to thousands of americans who are from their loved ones, today. we urge congress to pass the no ban act and remove religious bigotry from our nations immigration system for good. in the meantime, we urge the administration to make a on his promise to issue family -based and humanitarian waivers immediately. and that went out delay. thank you for this opportunity to specify that i look forward

to your questions. >> thank you very much. >> commanded german. i thank you for inviting me here today to discuss this important but awesome up often dismiss understood issue. well-being of the american people, citizens and nationals and lawful immigrants, is the primary duty of the united states government. for decades individuals both foreign and domestic, and have posed a risk to our people and our institutions in the u.s. government and costly that. basically it is the role of our federal law enforcement agencies, interstate and local partners who investigate and prevent such harm read respect to the state department dhs and our intelligence agency must be causally vigilant to ensure individuals who pose public safety risks are unable to reach our shores. state department consular officials and officers play

critical roles that occur. millions of our national see pieces and to enter our country his this year and is their job to screen each of them. they must ensure that those individuals are who they claim to be are coming for the reasons they have served and will remain only as long as permitted. presidential proclamation 9645, and the review the issuance and system in that effort. in view dhs with the assistance dni, developed a baseline the information need it identify these applicants and assess both of they pose security or public safety risks. this begins with travel documents. documents presented are not reliable and can't be verified. they are worthless for identification purposes. next are officers reliant information provided by foreign governments to assess the risk posed by visa applicants. bedding is only as good as the information u.s. officials have at their disposal. finally, an assessment of the

country conditions in a particular both of the terrorist group operates in those countries and both of those countries themselves are hostile to the united states, the critical facts and with the addition of any individual with the visa applicants. tears have and will attempt to exploit our generous immigration laws to attack this country. and we use this country for a base for operational plan in fundraising. the same is true of criminals. those efforts undermine or dismiss the security or following foreign policy goals. by restricting the interview steps by individuals of a limited number of countries, it makes it easier for officers to support those efforts and avoid those risks. spitefully, i question the characterization. it's not been off of it restricts the entry of foreign nationals, those restrictions are subject to exceptions limitations waiver. as we heard. our government agencies are constantly improving our

practices to ensure those waivers in particular are adjudicated at a timely fashion. nor is it a muslim man clause it is supreme court as noted as stated time. makes no reference to religion. a percent of the worlds population is limited to countries there previously designated by congress or prior conjugate has looked at as a risk. from which the strength of this nation arises, believers involve of all faiths or no faith at all contribute to our economic strength. from a national security standpoint, such a man would be counterproductive. it would gain for us the enmity of 1.8 billion people, and was substitute irrational bias in our visa screening system. neurological policy focus on responding to real world threats. the supreme court held the quote, is expressly premised on

legitimate purposes preventing and they can be not be adequately vetted and encouraging other nations for their practices. congress on national security issues who lead to immigration, i concur in the judgment. thank you and i welcome your questions. >> thank you. now is the time when members of the committees have an opportunity to question witnesses for five minutes. i will turn now to the chairman of the oversight committee and foreign affairs esther vera for his five minutes. >> . .

not a binary choice. we can both hold onto our values as a nation of immigrants of a welcoming country but also guaranteed to the best of our ability to protect our national security. those are not givens. when i listen to the two stories here but also an ethic about the cases of my own constituents, you have provided quite a bit of documentation that could be looked at but would suggest neither one of your spouses or ãour security risks. there is plenty of information to say we haven't done the vetting process. just smacks of necessary right now. in my district we have 39 open cases that as far as we can tell have not moved anywhere in the last six months. only when we've intervened through the media and others

that we have been able to get the process unstuck. that the backlog will get cleared up that we will be able to move folks through and i hear too often folks being kept from their families the best testaments i can get from the brennan center is the muslim band skipped over 3800 partners from their american spouses over 1500 children from their american parents. in over 3400 parents from their american sons and daughters. we can do better than that and we must do better than that. the no ban act will help us do better than that. let me ask you questions if i might, we understand from the state department that they

don't consider being in a conflict zone and undue hardship and your wife is in yemen which is been subject two years of wars and conflicts. would you consider their conditions in yemen to be undue hardship? >> yes, yemen is really into hardship right now. you're talking about a country where people live in darkness. a matter of fact, after i was separated with my family when they returned to yemen i called my wife like two weeks after they arrived and there was no baby food or ãa country under war. >> that sounds like the definition of undue hardship. there doesn't seem to be ãb

from your experience, what is that definition? how is that definition being applied? >> thank you congressman for that question. let me first say that we have advocates have had insight into what the state department is been doing and how it's been treating applicants who are potentially eligible for waivers. in part due to litigation that was brought to our colleagues. the class action lawsuit lot on applicants who are seeking waivers in federal court. as result of that litigation, the court has ordered the government to produce information to try to get an understanding of what guidance has been given internally to counselor officers. also as a result of the litigation we been speaking with counselor officers including some folks they paint a really different picture of what we've heard earlier today and specifically there is a clarity especially to the public about what the standards

mean. he referred to undue hardship there is reference to national security check also that the ã ãinternally within the department there has been numerous guidance, sometimes conflicting at times and not a whole lot being shared publicly. we have the public operating in the blind. we have people trying to do their best to make the case for why their spouses their children their grandmothers should be allowed to enter the u.s. we have a really broken system and the state department officials representation earlier today, now they are starting to move since july last couple months things are starting to move from our perspective and what we've seen and from what we hear from families, from immigration practitioners that is just a drop in the bucket in terms of the number of applicants that are waiting and they been waiting for years now.

to really see progress and if these applications approved. these are u.s. citizens, green card holders who in a normal course can have their family members come and attend births weddings and join their family members. >>. >> will now turn to the ranking member mr. bigsby. >> thank you madam chair. and i appreciate all the witnesses coming into tell your stories and what's going on in your life. i will say that i think it's unfortunate ãrefer to this as a muslim band i thought might up that to better the last hearing. i'm interested in how at least one of you testified that the band, which is not really a band, it's a review. said that this applies to sub in predominantly muslim nations and the quoted old data.

we heard earlier specifically stating the refuted the old data which i thought was interesting and yet the same witness just pooh-poohed the entire hearing that we just had i think that's unfortunate. the same witness said there's no way of a process available to the public and yet that seems to be an astounding misunderstanding of the process to obtain a waiver. we had an expert come in and talk about everyone who is applying for a visa in this category has a review to determine whether they qualify for a waiver. there is not a second affirmative requirement because the state department official said, we figure if you are going to apply for the visa you must want the waiver.

we are not going to put them through the second process. does it take time? absolutely. because the testimony is pretty clear and my experience and following this other immigration issues is you try to develop communication with certain nations so that you have veracity in the documents you are reviewing you have veracity and the testimony you are hearing so you know who the individual is and you know what they are saying to be true or accurate. >> i will give you a rather holy example but we have the three northern triangle states. we could not send people back who would receive due process in the united states because there was no travel papers. the required travel papers. you couldn't send somebody back so we ended up detaining them much longer than we should have and wanted to. now all three nations have complied and had more open and transparent process and now

they don't require those travel papers. so they can be removed after they've had their due process. if they are removable. the same thing goes on here and it's not necessarily that an individual, they might be a wonderful person, but the requirement that we place on our customs officials and our homeland security officials is to determine whether they are who they say they are and if there threat to the country. that may require, in all cases requires some kind of communication with the other country. if you can't get that communication, for whatever reason, then they air on the side of safety for the country. i'm going to go to mr. arthur, you have stated in your written testimony 10 different reasons ã10 different ways to get a waiver. i was wondering if you would expand on some of those ways for us and also on the relationship necessary and the communication necessary between officials in this country and officials of the applicant.

>> if you don't mind i'm going to answer the second question first. the first is pretty well covered in the proclamation. i know this from personal experience having been at the inf i was chief of national security ãchief of the national security law division for a period of time. we deal with our foreign partners and when i say foreign partners that includes countries we don't consider partners at all including russia and china. with respect to information about individuals who are traveling to the united states. they want their nationals to get them to come to the united states so they comply with our request with respect to the criminal information about it. my telling you that someone who's a member of the chinese security service is going to be

revealed as such? no. for that we rely upon our foreign partners with the flybys, other intelligence agencies, our own intelligence agencies to identify those visuals so we can exclude them from the united states. going back to what director comey testified back in 2015 i think it was, the bedding is only as good as the information that's available and i go to the witness from milan. if the iranian government was more forthcoming with information we could trust the information the iranian government provided we wouldn't have to go through this process we would know right away who the individuals are but they don't. that's the reason why we have this problem. i refer back to that, i'm happy to do it during second round questioning where i can put it in a written statement. >> thank you, the gentleman's time has expired. the gentle lady from washington is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. i wanted to start by saying that it's entirely appropriate witness with donna quick quote

statistics on the website of the state farm. the state department is required by law under the consolidated appropriations act of 2019 to provide quarterly reporting on implementation of the muslim band. the last report publicly provided was march 2019 it's impossible for the public to know what's happening at the state department is two quarters behind on their reporting. i think the windows for using the publicly available documentation that is there. i want to start by thinking doctor does augie and mr. ogden's ali for your testimony and for being here. we so deeply appreciate it. your stories are the human faces. it's reflected in thousands of people across the country certainly constituents in my district who are suffering.

constituents just as an example in my district rod cyrus and i iranian man working as a business intelligence project manager. he and his wife have waited for four years for the u.s. government to allow her to join them here. another is ãbalso from seattle she works two minimum wage jobs to care for her father who has a disability and she's been separated from her iranian husband for two years. the real travesty of this is that u.s. citizens shouldn't have to worry about being reunited with people that they love with their family members. green card holders shouldn't have to worry about the refugees who are here legally and have applied legally for their spouses and children to come to this country should have to worry about having to be there as spouse delivers a child as repaired. let me start with you mr. does augie, could you tell me why

you came to the united states? and what made you decide to stay in the country? >> ãbi decided to move to the united states to join my family, my mother's and two brothers. i obtained my green card on december 2016 29. since then i continued my work at the university of iowa. my aim was always to join the ã and build my carrier and high impact position in the united states and frontiers of research and advancement in technology in the world. it was always my dream to conduct high-impact research and contribute to the well-being of my community and research. in this ice join my mother a senior citizen, in fact, also

my brother. my brother i have two brothers our aim was always to be able to conduct high-impact research and explore our own potential and be together with the family. the reason being, we decided to stay here was because all the possibilities we have to contribute to the high-impact research. >> thank you so much. really you have this very educated family, you came here to join your family but you contributed your skills to this field or doctorate degree to this field of high-impact research helping us the united states to really advance our research and technology and your wife i understand also

holds a phd and received a postdoc job offer at the university of maryland where her work would have been funded by the national institutes of health. is that correct? >> exactly. >> it sounds like a very prestigious position and i think united states would be lucky to have someone like your wife contributing to health research that would benefit so many people here. what options are you considering, i'm going to ask you to keep this very brief. what options are considering in order to be with your family again? >> it's heartbreaking and hard decision but i'm actually putting my leave at the university and the option i would be able to join my wife wouldn't be able to to come to united states i will leave united states. >> we would lose you and your wife. in my last 10 seconds, miss carol, what is the harm to the united states? we talked about the harm to

people. what's the harm to the united states? very briefly. >> just significantly those already been harm to our economy, tourism is down, it hurts businesses when people can't enter the united states. different data has shown we've already lost billions of dollars. that hurts big and small businesses. >> thank you. >> thank you to all the witnesses for being here. especially being able to hear the stories of people who are impacted by today's hearing is always helpful for any hearing we have in congress. mr. gazaway from new york. giving you the assumption that you are a great guy and you have a great wife you have two beautiful amazing kids and the goal is to be able to pursue without the american dream to be able to escape conditions in yemen which we know here in america we may not know

obviously to the extent your family does back in yemen, it's a really bad situation back there. we do know that here in the u.s. the one thing that you might not take comfort in because the ultimate goal is for you to be with your family. that would make you happy, nothing short of that you will be able to take comfort in. it was something interesting as i hear your story and as the ranking member of the oversight and investigation subcommittee with chairman berra we have a great working relationship on a bipartisan basis something that we should talk further about. all across the entire world i have stories in my office where someone is an american, they were born in the united states, multiple generations here in the united states to have a clean record, one case comes to mind of someone who is retired

law enforcement in new york with the crystal clean record who met a woman abroad and is not from any of the countries we are discussing today is actually a country in south america. in vetting the case are not aware of anything at all in her background that would prevent her from coming. he has applied repeatedly to try to get a visa, just actually to have his wife be able to meet his family. not even requesting permission to stay, just to come for a couple weeks. in the visa continues the request continues to get denied. something that sparked the story when you said you went to the meeting the meeting only lasted five minutes and then ended. that was exactly the story from a couple weeks ago it lasted

five minutes and they never got the opportunity to make the case. that piece is interesting to me. chairman berra, hopefully this is something we can discuss. the issue that i have with certain countries that are greatly destabilized by the government is the lack of documentation that's provided by many people applying. as a tactic the united states government tries to make up for that through interrogation. i think it's greatly unfortunate as far as best practices and visa approvals and if you are applying for a waiver to present yourself to the united states government to take all the time and trouble to present yourself and your wife to the united states government in the united states government to take five

minutes. from a policy standpoint and oversight standpoint and something productive for the committee to hear. i am someone who believes this reticular band was asked discriminating against countries. in congress and out of congress debate in the media amongst the american public. if you are from iran, i know a lot of people who are iranians amazing people who are contributing massively to our country. some of my best friends ãbif you are from iraq or turkey or afghanistan or egypt or from lebanon and then the band

wouldn't have been applying to you. the issue with your wife in australia specifically the country know where your wife is from and not a religion, i don't know, first time i'm hearing your story but i want to say thank you and especially as we hear your personal stories there is stuff that chairman bair and archimedes can work together on moving forward on the policy standpoint. thank you for being here, i yelled back. young lady from minnesota. >> might i have 30 seconds to comment on the congressman's remarks? >> that's not in order. we will turn to the gentle lady from minnesota. >> thank you chairwoman. judge arthur stephen miller has repeatedly centered this center for immigration studies to defend his policies. is it fair to say that you and your organization have

influenced over the administration immigration policies? >> we are a think tank so i like to think that we have influence over all policies including policies the united states government whether anything we write is anything that influences stephen miller i can't tell you. >> thank you.you said that all three ãof the muslim band are legally justifiable. various courts have disagreed. usually based on the white house intent when donald trump was running for president he called for a complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. surely we have to take the van in that context, surely adding north korea and venezuela with cynical attempt to get around the plain truth that this was intended to be a muslim band. in my view, trumps campaign promise to ban muslims wasn't just empty words. there's a connection between that promise and the subsequent

band. would you like to see a complete ban of muslims entering this country? >> absolutely not. >> thank you.>> i concur with thomas jefferson ã >> i appreciate that. i have comments. stephen miller is quoted as saying he would be happy if not one more refugees stepped foot on american soil. he's been the architect of the family separation vetting the asylum laws and the increased militarization of i.c.e. and the border patrol. he's also attacked our system of highly skilled immigration. donald trump is called countries like the country i come from, somalia, should whole countries and has wondered out loud why we don't get fewer or more people from places like africa and haiti and why we shouldn't get more people from places like norway.

we can conclude that anything besides nfl nationalist project from the white house is doing. they told us what they want to see, which is for people from white countries to immigrate to the united states. your organization has recently published an article asking whether we as a country had forgotten 9/11. there are two members of congress mentioned as part of evidence in that article. rashida to leave and myself. the southern poverty law center has designated your organization as a hate group citing your repeated circulation of white supremacist and anti-semitic writers. the washington post has rebuked the research from your organization on terrorism and immigration ncis defense of the muslim band.

when asked by my colleague hank johnson and margie denied that john penton was the founder of cis and said "there is a founder of cis it was otis graham ". in our ãfor doctor graham, james banner credit him there is a manifesto from a man who killed 22 people in el paso last month. in the manifesto he said that because of the looming environmental catastrophes,

"the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in america who are using resources". this was his justification for the act of mass murder. apparently inspired by the ideas such as those espoused by otis. i'm appalled by that, everyone here should be appalled by that. i hope you and the founder of your organization are appalled by the fact that you inspired people who engage in such acts. >> madame chairman, may i respond in any way to that? >> that's not in order either. >> very good. >>. >> what's the rules of the committee if a member chooses to utilize their five minutes to destroy a witness, are you saying the rules of the committee attempt to slander

someone who's in front of us. >> going on the record of the words that he used it's not an inflection of a witness. >> the gentle lady will withhold. court of order has been raised. ordinarily, this is a time where members may ask five minutes of the witnesses, it's not a time for the witnesses to give speeches. we will now recognize ã >> what the ruling? what is the rules of the committee if a member chooses to spend their five minutes slandering a witness in their organization, what's the rules of the committee as to whether or not the person who gets slander is a lot to respond? >> if the facts around the record. >> the gentle lady will suspend. mr. lee zeldin will suspend as well. the rules of the committee under the five minute rule members may question or make statements, it is not a time for witnesses to make speeches stop we will now recognize ã

>> the point of the order? >> mr. andy biggs you are recognize. >> thank you. in the past in this committee it's been my observation that on occasion when someone has not to engage in debate with the witness per se but actually as maligned their character and accused them in the cost of them or their organization we had the courtesy to let them briefly respond to that. i know because i've seen it actually happen and am wondering, i guess my problem entry inquiry is since that's been become the established practice, if someone has been maligned or the organization. is it not the practice and president of this committee, which is consistent rules of the house to allow the person briefly respond? >> actually not. but to avoid a long discussion

on this point, i will ask mr. arthur in under 30 seconds if you may commit to please make a concise statement and we will then hear from the next member who wishes to speak. >> thank you madam chair. >> thank you madame chairman. >> i don't attach myself to any of those statements. i decry any individual who is misled, any misguided individual who takes action for any reason. i write about the rules that had been passed by the congress of the united states. in desktop those be enforced and i always note that the congress is free to change the laws of the united states sworn to uphold the laws and i will continue to do so. i am a father a member of the community and i appreciate the opportunity to respond. >> the time is expired we will now turn to the gentle lady from texas, miss garcia.>> thank you madam chair. i want to thank doctor inzaghi

and mr. ãb i just want to say ãbthey call this band enema called a band because i think we should call it what it is was ill-conceived poorly implemented and ill explained. i don't think i've heard anything differently today that convinces me otherwise. i want to thank you both for coming and having the courage to come share your stories. your story is the same as many that we saw although the country all over the world during that time period. i want to yield about a minute of my time for my colleagues and minnesota miss omar for a brief response and then issue back. >>. >> i object to any notion that

my stating of facts is in alignment of the character of the witness. thank you for distancing yourself from the actions of the person who committed that atrocity. which is what i also said. i want to make sure that people understand i did not make a single statement that was not actual in my remarks. thank you, i yield back. >> thank you. i wanted to ask both of our testimonial witnesses b& what d you think in america looks like, somebody just said what is america look like what would you say? doctor? >> at this moment, prior to

being subjected to the muslim band my dream was always a place that you can explore your potential, be with your family, a country that appreciates any contribution to it.but after the muslim ban. ãbif my wife got the opportunity to explore potential or not any of them or any important air not these are the things that actually distrust me and make me sad. >> okay. >> america is a country that

gives human rights, a country that protects if you have a vision a dream, this way you can pursue your dreams. doors open, like the position i mentioned about my wife. when i was with my wife before the supreme court upholds the trump administration she always asked me, i told her i grew up in the united states i know how america are. you won't be separated but when i went home that night i won't forget it she was in front of the tv listening to the news and saw that the supreme court upholds it and she started crying looking at me saying it but he told me america is this and that and i still believe the value of this country that will bring us together.

>> i know earlier you wanted to respond to a question to one of my colleagues do you want to take time now to respond. >> thank you for that opportunity. i was actually taken by congressman zeldin thomas talking about his own experience with constituents who've gone to the system and i think it underscores that i think there's a commonality here which is that i think we can all agree that we don't want a band babies and grandmothers and grandmothers. we need a policy that is smarter and not doing harm to our own friends and neighbors. fortunately there's a solution for that. it no ban act i encourage the congressman to work with congresswoman judy chu to take a look at that bill it's basically ensures that men's section 2 the authority the president here to more closely

track the way that republican and democratic administrations have used this authority over the last 40+ years where they had a bone is like a band, there's been very tailored circumscribed bands that deal with the specific diplomatic dispute or dealing with human rights atrocities in trying to address that. i'm hoping that there could be commonality coming out of the siri that underscores that. >> time is expired.we turn to the gentle lady from florida, miss >> thank you madam chair and thank you for coming in front of us this afternoon. earlier i shared the story of one of my constituents who has not been able to bring his father from syria. and the consequences of that. i just want to remind everyone that we are americans whether we were born in a different country or not. you are americans, i'm an american, i had the privilege of becoming a u.s. citizen.

i was welcomed under the reagan administration and who understood the importance of opening our doors to immigrants because that's who we are in this country unless you are native american, we are all immigrants in this country. so i wanted to ask from the two of you to elaborate a little bit on what is it mean to each of you to be separated from your families and what does your day today look like? >> just like living in two countries. the burden of the life and the complexities, without having the assurance and companionship and support, being able to communicate just on the phone being able to just talk on skype not being able to have a

ãto just coming from coming home have a cuppa tea or watching your movie and just relaxing and missing all the important moments in the life separated is just like when she graduated completion of her phd i wasn't there. i got my job as a professor she wasn't here. all things are just big trauma. her birthday was seventh of september. i couldn't be at any of them. these are all trauma. you need extra energy, extra energy to just be able to cope with all the situation and at the same time be productive because we have responsibilities. i am responsible for 60 students and responsible for a program. i have to work and this is my duty. i need to put extra time and energy to just cope with all

those and it's harder for my wife, at least i'm here, she's struggling with all those things. i feel that the sacrifice she is doing is 10 times more than me. >> i can imagine. i'm so sorry to hear that. >> to be without your family is accurate however how to explain it. i live ãbi feel like i'm a bird without wings without my family. i think about that feeling if i grow up i still have hope that we will be together thank you.

>> miss cara, i'm supporting the no ban act and i agree with you. what other things would you recommend we can do to help individuals like mr. altas ali and doctor ãwe don't get answers from this state department ãand we as congress members continue to ask questions were not getting enough answers. would you suggest we can do to help. >> i would say a couple things, first of all thank you so much for supporting the no ban act. we now have 177 cosponsors in the house. your support in moving this bill to the judiciary committee and eventually the full house as soon as possible would be greatly appreciated. that's the first thing. the second thing is that what we have found is that sometimes

when there's congressional attention and media attention, sometimes that helps get action on a waiver faster. to the extent you have constituents who are raising these issues, please continue to make your voice heard the state department and continue to have oversights like this that took place earlier today it's absolutely crucial. i firmly believe that the reason we are starting to get movement and starting to get some more information from the state department as a result of not only litigations like groups like ours but the pressure from congress as well. continue to do your job because this is fundamentally the promise of congress is regulating our immigration and ensuring families can be together. thank you. >> thank you. >> gentle ladies time is expired, gentle lady from texas lee is recognized five minutes. >> i would like to place consent to place on the record ãbdetainment after being held in texas this is mrs. mohammed a 16-year-old student. >> without objection.

>> that story evidence is where we are today but will powerfully the testimony of the two witnesses adds to the overwhelming danger in the overwhelming disaster that's been created by a blanket muslim band. the latest iteration of this van it seems that it says it's indefinite that means my understanding is that people from those particular countries remain in limbo. it seems if i'm reading it correctly that yemen is off the list at this point.and that, you can correct that i'm looking at some document that says it still on top it might be that they are building each moment. let me just pose my questions accordingly. in particular mr. ãismail i've

been to yemen and i know they are wonderful people there and i am normally sick saddened by the tragic war that is being fostered upon the yemenis people in terms of their trials and tribulations. but let me ask how long you were working to get a visa for your wife? she was not pregnant at the time you started was she pregnant? >> she was not pregnant. >> you tried to follow the rules? >> the first time i started applying was in 2016. >> you follow the rules to apply and you are a u.s. citizen? >> yes. >> what was the initial denial? >> they said her visa has been denied under section 212s úácustomá you applied in 2016 but you got caught up in the muslim ban? >> yes. >> how frightened were you as you and your wife rushed to the hospital knowing she could have been in the united states to

have your baby? >> i will never forget that time until i die. >> did you think your wife might die? >> the way i saw her in the way she was screaming in the back of the cab and i'm looking like where's the hospital. >> you are not in yemen you are in djibouti. >> you thought you might lose your baby? >> i was expecting i was going to lose the baby. >> a man with separated families and the potential put a young woman am a married woman to a u.s. citizen, in the eye of potential death in your young baby at that time and potential death. what kind of fear ran over you? >> i feel like i was thrown away. >> no help. >> mr. arthur, what is your response to a policy that has

no mercy and is ineffective in its instructor. do you think that is the role of immigration laws to rule out the opportunity for innocent persons to create the potential of a baby dying, mother dying when the same exodus and appropriately applied for the visa in question? is that what you're advocating today? >> the purpose of the presidential proclamation is to encourage information sharing by countries and encourage ã >> promote the foreign policy of the united states. >> i appreciate that that's a blanket response or giving. if we were to in the next 10 days indicate that we were getting the adequate information from countries, you then could see the wrongness of the muslim ban?

if we were to get the proper information sharing from those countries if we could ensure individuals who are applying to enter the united states and not pose danger. >> not have proof that were not getting the right information but to see the wrongness or the deterrent effect when i say deterrent effect destructive impact on human beings through this muslim ban? >> all immigration laws of the united states i would note that congress right the immigration laws of the united states to the greed to keep anybody out of the united states ã [multiple speakers] >> let me move to the representative muslim advocates and particularly on the ãb part of its decision rested on the insurance that the waiver process would function. in practice for the waiver profits fall short of the supreme court's expectations and ien do you see any merit in mr. arthur's point about getting information from other countries when we have the most powerful nation and we can get information on an individual like a pregnant wife of israel?

>> thank you congresswoman for that question. on the first part of the question, absolutely, the dissent justice breyer was very correct but unfortunately the waiver process has been a sham. it's been almost two years since the supposed waiver process one is to the effect. there is still no publicly accessible information to people who are trying to apply and prove their eligibility for wave other deficiencies as well. >> on the second point around information, going to refer to the 50+ former national security officials from fire republican and democratic administrations who spoke out and have said that in their expert opinion there is no evidence of a growing or particularized threat from nationals of these countries that would justify a blanket over broadband. >> the gentle ladies time is

expired. i will not recognize myself for five minutes and i want to thank all the witnesses. and i apologize to you, doctor is on g and to you is mail because i'm not pronouncing your last name very well, for the hardships that you've undergone. unfortunately members of congress have run into similar hardships from our own constituencies, for example, in my district mr. ferris is a body of cnet citizen has a wife who is originally from iran, he has a serious medical condition. he had a kidney transplant in 2016 that requires chronic immunosuppressive drugs to prevent the rejection of that transplant. and according to anthologist at stanford university has kidney function is approximately 40 to 50% of normal.

he's got all kinds of risk factors but his wife has been waiting for more than two years for the waiver. she is stuck in turkey and he's going to see her periodically even though his doctors are telling him not to do it. it's putting him at risk but his wife has been kept away from him. i invited this year to the state of the union a woman who u.s. citizen husband and same exodus and sonia were in california and her son was dying. she asked for a waiver and for two years got nowhere. finally the uproar was such that she was admitted to the u.s. so she could hold her psalms hand while he died.she got there two weeks before he passed away. there are tremendous conflicts inflicted on american citizens and their families that has nothing to do with the security

of the united states. we are hopeful with the help of this hearing that we will be part of changing that and also part of moving forward with this legislation which i'm also cosponsored. there's been a lot of discussion today immigration law and the like. i mindful that if we don't trust iran's mystery to me why student visas from iran are exempt from the ban? obviously there's an consistently underway when it comes to the american government and their treatment of people from iran. how do you establish a hardship, i've often felt that if the u.s. state department has in their travel advisories that it's too dangerous to go to a place, it's too dangerous to live there. that ought to be the standard hardship and yet we are asking

the family members of americans stay in places we told people from america you shouldn't visit because it's too dangerous to go there. that's just wrong. taking a look at your resume it's just an amazing record of scholarships that you have i hope you won't give up. and i hope you do that. don't give up on being an american. and let's see if we can make sure let's make sure you're also distinguished wife can come join you so she can contribute the scholarship in advance of science that it helped made our country great. would you consider that?

>> of course. if we had this opportunity after four years of hard work building all my carrier having my wife to have the best opportunity, we would love to serve this country and serve the economic community as well. i've been reading some of your people lose the titles and improving protein fold recognition using the amalgamation of evolutionary-based and structural-based information i don't even know what that means. i would like to say that be five pages of scientific papers you helped co-author is going to be important for our country and you are joined by thousands of others who are here in

america who are born someplace else but our country is about this, it's not where you are from, it's where you are going that makes you an american. i'm so grateful to all of you for being here today for being witnesses, we will have an opportunity to provide additional questions to you over the next five days if we do, please answer them and at this point we will adjourn this hearing with thanks to all. you are adjourned. [inaudible background conversations]

[inaudible background conversations] [inaudible background conversations] >> cybersecurity is a huge issue. it was job one for me when we got there. we have built a remarkably

talented team, both in the data technology front and the cybersecurity front. but make no mistake about it, the russians are at it, other foreign actors are at it and they are continuing to do this because they could do it with impunity. you have a president right now who is sending his attorney general around the world to try to debunk what the senate intelligence committee on a bipartisan basis just said which is that the russians try to influence our election. that's an disputable, except indisputable, except to donald trump and rudy giuliani and a few of rudy giuliani's friends who just got indicted. we should be getting help from the federal government to protect the integrity of election. in the wii is not just the dnc, the wii is the state and local governments. we should be getting help.

you saw the reporting about the former dhs secretary when she would try to bring up election security she was given the heisman. don't bring it up, the president said. i can't trust this government to help us out. he saw the mueller report one of the indictments alleged that the russians were attempting to hack into state and local systems and they got into one state and got roughly half a million names. this is really serious stuff. they did it before, they continue to do it. we have built a robust infrastructure. i will never look anyone in the eye and say we are bulletproof because we know it's an arms race. we are far better off good we have been when i got there we are continuing to fortify, we are continuing to work with partners, unfortunately one of them is not the federal government. >> on this week's newsmakers,

tom perez democratic ãbthe dnc's role in the candidate's campaign. in the upcoming debate next week in ohio. that's sunday at 10:00 a.m. and again at 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. online at c-span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app >> starting now, it's booktv on c-span2. >> weeknights this week we are featuring booktv program showcasing what's available every weekend on c-span2. tonight we show you some of our in-depth guests. next we will hear from conservative author and historian lee edwards. at 10:00 p.m. journalist naomi klein talks about consumerism, free-market capitalism and climate change. and after that professor of history and american studies at yale university joanne freeman.

>> author lee edwards, who is russell kirk and why is he such a hero to conservatives? >> russell kirk was an unknown obscure assistant professor of history and michigan and michigan state with amoco college. one day he woke up and said i want to write the book about all the conservatives that have lived and worked and made a difference in our history. no one had ever done that before. as a matter fact, lionel chilling the preeminent electoral of the day said conservatives don't really have any ideas and when they do express them to express them in irritable mental gestures. so that was the distain the contempt if you will, the liberals had for conservatives. russell kirk came along and

said i don't think that's ri