next, the head of the department of housing and urban development ben carson testifies about the 2019 budget request. the senate banking housing and urban affairs committee hearing is just under two hours.

[inaudible conversations] the hearing will come to order. today we receive testimony from doctor ben carson the 17th secretary of housing and urban development. welcome back, mr. secretary. over the past year secretary carson has made significant strides in his efforts to make programs more effective and efficient. she's embarked upon a listening tour traveling across the country to develop a deeper understanding of the effect policies have on affordable housinthe affordablehousing prad families who are the most vulnerable. not long after from returning, he took on a major leadership role in coordinating hurricane relief efforts in texas, florida, puerto rico and the u.s. virgin islands.

providing both immediate and long-term relief to thousands of families have been displaced from their homes and are without electricity. that work continues. as a nominee just over a year ago secretary carson testified before the committee about the importance of revisiting the housing programs to ensure families who are struggling in america have the best opportunity to decline the economic and social ladder. to break the generations of poverty and to become self-sufficient, secretary carson has also stressed the importance of aligning the regulatory requirements in ways that incentivize landlord participation in the programs, eliminate undue burdens on program participants, enhance workforce mobility and maximize the percentage of the dollars that go straight to the families that need it. i could not agree more on these goals and i think the secretary and his team for working with this committee to achieve these

objectives. last week by a vote of 67 to 31 to pass the economic growth regulatory relief consumer protection act the senate took a step forward in addressing these issues. a lot of the debate last week highlighted how legislation right sizes legislation for the banks and credit unions to promote economic development and lending that the bill als but ts important improvements to housing programs. it provides critical regulatory relief to over 1,000 small public housing agencies making it easier for them to develop new projects and coordinate with their neighbors and insurers more of their budgets go straight to families rather than legal paperwork. the bill makes it less expensive for nonprofits like habitat for humanity to build homes and underserved communities. it makes a greater number of families eligible for the families of sufficiency program and enhances the program so that it can offer new additional

services to participants. it permits renters to stay in their homes for at least 90 days after their home was foreclosed upon and permanently extends the amount of time a service member may stay in his or her home after returning for one year before the home may be foreclosed upon. we hope this will soon be signed into law. today i look forward about hearing more opportunities to move forward working together to modernize and improve the housing programs. senator brown. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> plays a critical goal in the communities and families and goa nation so it is disturbing, extremely disturbing to read about one controversy after another that your department. ethics lawyers ignored procurement guidelines and scoffed at whistleblowers, facing retaliation from

antidiscrimination efforts downgraded, key positions filled based on patronage rather than confidence. it goes on and on and on. instead of taking responsibility, mr. secretary, they seem to want to blame others. your wife picked up the furniture without knowing the te price, your spokesman said something but not you. you shouldn't be blamed for not listening to your ethics lawyers. the press is unfair and it goes on and on blaming others seems to be the order of the day in the swamp. i think you need to take responsibility and get things right. the mission is too important to do otherwise. and getting things right means fighting for the funding needed to help poor people in this country get a roof over their head despite the importance of affordable housing it is increasingly out of reach a quarter of all printers today pay over half of their incomes for housing including 400,000 households in ohio alone. homelessness increased last year

in the eighth year of an economic expansion, homelessness increased while you were secretary of hud in the eighth year of an economic expansion beginning with auto rescue with president obama setting the course of that economic expansion. earlier this week one of our great housing advocates describe the affordable housing crisis as a., quote, all hands on deck situation. but hud chose to go awol instead rather than making new investments in affordable housing and communities, the budget proposal there is no debate in this, the budget proposal adds to the ranks of the homeless. three months ago the administration was entirely unconcerned about the deficit when it chose to have more than a trillion dollars to the national debt over the next decade. saying that again when the congress passed the tax cuts that went as we know overwhelmingly to the wealthiest people in the country it added a trillion dollars to the deficit and didn't seem to be much

interest from you, the members of the cabinet, the president or members of this body in the majority oand themajority aboutt increase over the next decade but all of a sudden, secretary carson and your colleagues who discovered grave concerns about the budget deficit such that it's time to charge extremely poor people significantly higher rent. it's outrageous the top 1% of the country and you and most members of the cabinet are among the top 1% from th and the top l eventually get 83% of the benefits of petroleum on the tax cut that you and this administration think it's okay to charge for people more for their rent. to reduce the deficit, this tax cut for millionaires and corporations will create proposals with some of the poorest households in the country must pay an increase of as much as $1,800 a year in rent. that is just shameful.

all told it wants to charge an estimated $2 billion in higher rent to low-income families through what you all call rent reform. administration claims the cuts will recognize a greater role for the state and local governments and the private sector. you always say that. federal assistance you know reaches only one out of every four eligible families. state and local governments are already strapped for cash. go anywhere in the country and ask them that. we know they don't have the capacity to take on those evicted by federal cuts without raising taxes on working families. last year you reassured the public that the budget cut you send in the committee of the budget cuts would be offset and the administration's infrastructure package. i have no idea if you push the infrastructure package to live up to the promise, but i do know the president's proposal did not include funding for the development despite your assurances housing is part of

the infrastructure in this country and it will be treated as such. there's no funding for capital spending, for public housing despite a backlog of needed repairs of tens of billions of dollars. under the leadership of secretary carson, hud decided at a wobbly chair in a private dc dining room requires the urgent attention of no fewer than 16 staffers and thousands of taxpayer dollars. unsafe and unsanitary conditions in public housing that puts working families and children at risk, not our problem you say, let them use vouchers. sounds rather 19th century, excuse become a teen century. there's a problem you are already under funding and can't say everybody in public housing must shift to section eight and then not provide the money for that to happen. this budget is an embarrassment but yet in the news out of the administration of late out of the department of late seem all

too common in this administration. thank you mr. chairman. >> secretary carson, we now turn to you to make opening remarks and then we will follow with questions from the committee please proceed to. >> thank you. thas chairman and ranking member brown can in th members of the committee thank you for inviting me today to discuss the work we do at the department of housing and urban development. my plans for fulfilling that mission with fidelity to the congressional mandate and the ie best interest of the american people the president's 2019 budget proposes more than $41 billion for hud. 1.4% increase over last year's request. we believe this is sufficient to effectively administer the core programs continuing need of assistance to those individuals and families we currently serve the most vulnerable populations especially the elderly and persons living with disabiliti

disabilities. in addition to the requested level of funding for the housing choice voucher program will continue to support this same number of households we currently serve in shouldn't result in the termination of any housing vouchers. hud's budget would also make a significant investment to continue the fight to end homelessness. the budget proposes a record $2.4 billion to support thousands of local homeless assistance programs across the country. as a doctor for many years i am all too familiar with the effects of lead exposure and the developing brain and as a result we request $145 million to insured homes are free of lead based paint hazards and other contaminants especially for families with small children. i also recognize we need to do a better job respecting that the funds we spend ultimately belong

to the public. consequently, i have directed hud's new chief financial officer dennis to design and implement a transformation plan and lead an internal task force to combat waste fraud and abuse. within 36 years of private sector experience and is the perfect person to bring that kind of business acumen to the task. mr. chairman, in spite of the billions of dollars we spend as a nation trying to keep pace with the needs of the public housing stock, it hasn't worked. in fact, we are falling further and further behind. the budget recognizes that we need another way. hud is proposing to pivot from the current financial unsustainable public housing model and working with public housing authorities to seek a new way to produce and preserve affordable housing that so many families need.

we are asking for the authority to give local public housing authorities the flexibility to use their operating funds to support their capital needs and we are proposing to convert many more distressed public housing units to a section eight financing model for the rental assistance demonstration. thtoday they've stimulated more than $5 billion of private investments to preserve this housing simply put, brad is working. the budget proposes to open the door wide and about authorities to participate in this innovative approach. hud is also supporting sustainable homeownership in the programs in the federal housing administration. building household wealth through homeownership remains a keystone to helping americans claim the economic ladder of success. that's why we've taken this post is to ensure fha can continue to be a reliable source of mortgage

financing in the years to come. i'i am also here today to repeat the request that you've heard from us for many years now and from several administrations. we absolutely need to invest in the fha information systems. fha is built on a mainframe that is over four decades old. staff at the homeownership centers still work on paper case files creating inefficiencies and posing numerous quality control issues. mr. chairman, and members of the subcommittee, last year was one of the most destructive in the nation's history in terms of natural disasters with three devastating hurricanes and wildfires that are like those in california. hud is already supporting the long-term recovery taking shape in texas, florida, rico and the u.s. virgin islands. we have a lot of work ahead of us. since last september congress

appropriated more than $35 billion in community development block grant disaster recovery program. we've allocated 7.4 billion appropriated in september and soon we will be allocating another $28 billion. nearly every program office as staff working on disaster recovery many of whom have volunteered to travel to these areas and serve on the front lines. my prayers are always with those struggling to recovery. we will continue to stand with them throughout the recovery process. this returning before i conclude, i want to take a moment to commend you and your colleagues from both sides of the aisle from your work on s. 2155 the economic growth regulatory relief and consumer protection act. this legislation contains a number of commonsens common seng positions including regulatory babies for small streamlining

the family self-sufficiency program and important protections for veterans for federally backed mortgages. lisa took the opportunity and self-sufficiency so familieofsen move towards economic independence to achieve what are the common goals to better serve our fellow americans. thank you. >> thank you mr. secretary and again we appreciate you being here with us today. i assuri assured her strong comt for what is needed to improve the strengthening of affordable housing i also appreciate your comments with the rage of a legislation the senate for 2155 and that's what i'm going to focus my questions.

a 2155 would streamline rigid three requirements for small public housing agencies operating in the areas including simplified calculations for utility consumption in public housing, relax inspection requirements, extensions from environmental reviews and shared waiting lists. feedback i've received from the small public housing authorities is that these reforms would benefit residents, local housing authorities and other sponsors of public housing and housing choice voucher programs. first do you agree with that analysis and could explain how this would help? >> yes, i do agree with them very strongly. these are commonsens common sens and taking into account the differences between the small pha's and the large ones and now they can focus their attention on actually services for the people as opposed to filling out endless forms and i'm sure they

are extremely grateful for that. >> 2155 would also enhance the family self-sufficiency program by expanding into more and enabling current participants to obtain job-training education and childcare services as they save up to achieve financial independence. can you talk about how these will help the families receiving housing and help them achieve economic stability and mobility? >> this is exactly what we need to be doing. obviously, by amalgamating the program to self-sufficiency programs for both the public housing and section eight program, a lot of efficiency and savings have occurred and we can move people towards better education, jobs for monday's debat, decreasingdebt, increasid really making them much more a

part of the american dream, so that's why i'm such a strong supporter of self-sufficiency acts. in the past, one of the things we've been guilty of and i see this as we as a government we tend to pull the support for people when they begin to climb the ladder of self-sufficiency and we are acutely aware of that and work with you all to make sure that we are not sending the wrong messages to people. >> thank you. now i want to turn to one of the high priority is in the committee, housing finance reform. we are now approaching a full decade since fannie and freddie were taken into consideration if. finding a competitive solution to the housing finances remains a top priority for me for the remainder of this congress and i think for all of us. could you speak to the role hud's has played and will continue to play in exploring opportunities for the housing finance reform?

>> obviously it is the home of fha. fha has a portfolio of $1.21.9 trillion. you are talking over 3 trillion so obviously it is an important player in the whole discussion about finance reform. also, the fha is the one that has concentrated for the first time on the buyers, on minorities and people who frequently have not benefited as much from the private sector lending facilities. we must continue that strong component if we want these people to be able to realize the american dream itself. also, in terms of making sure that their housing practices

prevail through the system that's something that we are very much concentrated on and making sure that we maintain the financial stability of the system with such things as has beethe mandated to present capil ratio. things have been done to make sure that we maintain that against popular demand. >> thank you very much. senator from. >> you begin your testimony by saying the request is 1.4% above last year's request but i need a yes or no answer because i have a lot of things i want to cover, a 14% cut from 2017 and the active level, right clicks i think it's important to put that out there not to mislead by

saying it's a 1.4% increase from a proposal that was ignored by this congress last year. one of your proposals would charge mandatory minimum rent. what is the annual income of the typical family that would be affected by this policy change? >> most of these families are obviously distressed. i think the number you are looking for is about 9,870. >> how much would they be charging under your policy? >> the charge is going to be 30% of the income and for those that are work able and don't have anything that is intending upon them, 35% of gross. >> doesn't that strike you as pretty remarkable in the era of tax cuts that have gone to upper

income people in and a bigger budget deficit that you say 9,000 our numbers the income is less than that if it is 3,000 or $9 yo9,000 fewer charging, thatp of people as much as the team hundred dollars and that is the version that the cbp says was as much as 1800 south if somebody is making three, four, seven, eight or 9,000 you charged an 18 more fo for them brand is that t you want to do? >> one of the things that i think is important is that we be realistic about the budget. hispanic that's not a budget after use also part of the tax cut and you want to make up for it by charging somebody making $5,000 a year 150 extra a month you call it realistic i call it cool. >> we passed for the first time

the 21 trillion-dollar threshold. if we continue to accumulate -- >> i don't need a lecture. i understand that but i wish thayou'd said that several monts ago when the congress passed the tax cut that went to you and the president's cabinet and people in the top 1% are getting millions othat are gettingmillit and now it's time to talk about the deficit? maybe you should have thought a little bit ahead as he planned to cut funding for low-income people. don't forget one out of four people in the country that rent spend 50% or more of their income and housing. one thing happens in their lives and it's just a downward spiral. a couple other questions. 5200 from ohio died of drug overdoses in the 12 months measured by the most recent report of the 36% increase from august. that number probably understates those that you hired a 24-year-old campaign worker with no relevant experience to work

on this issue is that true? >> there was someone who was hired. i generally don't get involved in the levels -- >> you don't get involved in the table selection. your wife does even though she is not a federal employee. you don't get involved in the ethics issues -- >> if you are going to throw out these charges you should give me an opportunity to answer. hispanic i will after the last question. you hired an information officer resigned this week. why did you choose him and why did he resign after only nine months? >> he had a tremendous amount of experience and technological advancement, and we needed to make a significant transformation. i lost confidence in his ability to lead. hispanic apparently used a contractor to hire a friend who wildlwildly exaggerate the resud you think it would be better to advertise and compete for these jobs rather than hire cronies

for a subcontractor in the future as you move forward? >> i do not hire cronies and subcontractors. i don't do that. >> that seems true under your leadership. why did they leave only this week after this story the media? is that the first few knew about it? >> as soon as i found out about the problems we dealt with them. q-quebec does it bother you that you don't know these things are going on until the media writes about it? >> i don't think that is a fair characterization. >> you said you found out about it and these were pretty high-profile political people you found out about it and fired at them. >> one was profiled and one was not. when we found out about it we dealt with it. as you remember, i voted to confirm you and for other democrats on the committee voted to confirm you. i'm not sure that i made the

right decision. thank you. >> senator shelby. >> mr. secretary, a little different tone now. you've been here a year, about a year as the secretary more or less. what are some of the things you've gotten your arms around, what are some of the accomplishments? a year isn't a long time, but what are some of the positive things? >> there's been a multitude of things. one of the first things it has had with was the demand that we proceed with the 25 basis point reduction into the entrance premium. that had been put in place by the administration that was leaving without i think a lot of thought. >> [inaudible] >> they thought it would allow more people to purchase homes.

we thought it was done inappropriately in the senate hold on to this. we have to maintai maintain a 2l ratio. we maintain a 2.09. if we'd gone with the 25 basis point reduction would have endee ended up with a 1.76 and we would have had to come to the treasury to borrow money like we did in 2013 and this whole hearing would have been about that. >> as look forward now, you've been here one year now. what are your biggest challenges? >> homelessness is one of them. >> isn't there some connection to the challenges to the communities and homelessness? i know in my hometown a lot of the homeless maybe not

everywhere are deeply challeng challenged. >> that is a huge problem we made a mistake about 40 years ago with some of the rulings particularly people out of the senate where they could be easily taken care of and we have an obligation i think to take care of those people. >> what are some of the other challenges you are trying to get your arms around? >> we have a super funding problem going on in various places around the country, dilapidated housing in many places. >> expand on dilapidated housing because i see it everywhere. i see it in birmingham, atlanta, chicago. >> per instance there was just horrible oversight by the housing authority and these

places are totally uninhabitab uninhabitable. we had to find a way to house those people in a relatively quick manner. there's other places you look at what's happening and that there are issues going on all over the country we are trying to address them and looking at why these things happen in the first place. we've had to get rid of dozens of inspectors who consistently been providing an appropriate scoring. therthere's a number of other is that have to be taken care of in order to create the right kind of platform so that we don't have these problems. what do you expect to accomplish if everything works out flex say in another year what would you hope to get your hands around? >> first of all i want to get the systems in place so that we

don't have things being done in an inappropriate way. this whole furniture issue is an example of that. we are putting in control so that that does not happen while i'm here or after i leave. i think that is vitally important and saving taxpayer money that way as well. i also want us to change the image from that of just trying to get more people into the program into one where we actually provide people with a ladder to be able to escape. we are working through the invision sandhurst because there's a lot of need in the country and also a lot of resources, people who are compassionate. but the two generally are not juxtaposed. we are going to juxtapose those and i think that is going to make a big difference.

we are also enhancing section three. it's been on the books for 50 years we are going to put some teeth into it so that we can increase the workforce and give people the kind of skills that will allow them to escape dependency. it is about empowering people and gas we need more affordable housing and look at creative ways to create affordable housing but we also need to be looking at ways to move people out of affordable housing in a positive sense and making more room for others so that we don't have these long waiting lists we need to look at it from both ends. last may after visiting low-income housing in ohio yoo cautioned against making such a comfortable setting that would make anybody want to stay.

i will just stay here and they will take care of me was your quote. apparently your version of this doesn't float your office. in response to the reports you ordered is. your first facebook can only be read to indicate that he had no prior knowledge of the furniture selection. you said i was surprised as anyone to find out that a 31,000-dollar dining room set had been ordered. but in a chain of e-mails dating

back to august of last year staff at the department referred to the furniture said the secretary and mrs. corson picked it out. let me ask you why did you mislead the american public and taxpayers to fund the department activities and tell them you were not aware of this purchase when it is indisputable that you and your wife were involved in selecting this particular furniture? >> it's not indisputable. i wrote in the post on the fifth with my involvement was. >> it says very clearly what the involvement was. >> all those e-mails of your staff were wrong congress spokesperson was wrong? it's unbelievable. the e-mails back to august of 2017 staff and the department referred to the furniture set that the secretary and mrs. corson picked out. did they make that up?

>> i indicated that in the posting we were involved because they asked us to be involved to pick something and that i thought the pricing was too high but here's the bottom line. the bottom line is that furniture is not at hud and there is no charge to the american people, to the taxpayer. >> [inaudible] >> and we put special, or i've asked the cfo to put in place what we need to make sure that t doesn't happen again. >> let me go to a different set of questions. january 52018 is it true that they noticed the implementation of the affirmatively for giving fair housing rule a long overdue rule to help communities address the segregation and meet their obligations on the fair housing act? >> it is true to say that we have been asked by dozens of municipalities to hold off on

that because it was costing th them. and they were not able to comply. >> civet has been delayed. is it true that the 2019 budget request $3.9 billion less than 2017 enacted levels of fair housing programs? >> yes or no is a factually correct statement? >> there is not a simple yes or no. >> whether it was $3.5 million less? it doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand if there is that much less i than the budget or not. >> what is important is what are we attempting to do. it would be possible to actually talk about some of the actual principles of what we are trying to do. >> i would like you to answer my questions were barely hear the committee on housing issues for the first time since you were a nominated, so is it true that the department is considering changes to its mission

statement? march 7 the department confirmed that it is considering changes to its mission statement including to remove references to inclusive communities and communities free of discrimination. >> it is not at all unusual when the secretary comes into change the mission statement. >> do you entertain those statements? >> we have at th that the seniof level discussed changing it. the first iteration is the one that you've read from and the next was after we got input from all the staff, all 7,000 people that work at hud, that was my introduction that it got out and became a news story that was not the intention. >> let me close by saying they may not be policy directives but in this case you've established a pattern and a practice of

suggesting that it intends to reverse course and ignore its statutory obligation to end housing discrimination and promote inclusive communities. >> i'm not into standby if one characterized the 20. senator scott. i'm not sure that you realized you signed up to be a human piñata. it's been a bit challenging this morning and part of it has been around the issue of the table. folks are seeing that as an opportunity to delve into some important questions and issues as opposed to the focus and attention that you've given and i would love for you to have an opportunity to answer the question about the table on the

record and the overall spending that you've authorized around refurbishing, refreshing, decorating. please put that to rest for us. >> the initial stories talk about an extravagant taste of my wife and decorating my office. we spent a total of less than $3,500 decorating my office, considerably less than the historical norm. the second story come it isn't a table with 17 pieces of furniture that we were asked to replace because it could no longer be repaired after multiple attempts to repair. the bottom line is that the table has not materialized and there is no cost to the people, none whatsoever, not even a penalty cost for whomever ordered it initially.

also, we've taken advantage of the opportunity to put in place controls to make sure that this process is done correctly. even though i was not aware of the 5,000-dollar climate i take responsibility of this as the agency and for fixing it and we have done that. what's at hud and responsibilities of hud as i have a few minutes left. we were kind enough to start a listening tour around the country to understand and appreciate the severity of the problem of housing. you were born into and lived in poverty. i was in a single parent household and understand the fragile nature for those that are living close to the edge or under the edge. you spend some time in south carolina looking at the benefits of the historic preservation tax

credit and thcredits and the pog housing more affordable. part of the legislation that you mentioned 2155 is my family self-sufficiency act that has a pathway to a better future. when you talk about the importance of legislation like the family's efficiency act as well as the conversation yesterday around the opportunities for us to leverage the capital public dollars and to do something significant for those folks in public assisted housing today. >> thank you so much first for the tremendous effort you've put into the family self-sufficiency with the right attitude because these people are resources for the country and we need to be thinking about how we develop people and not spending so much time talking about objects and houses. houses are an important part of development of a person and giving them the kind of

foundation that the need. i am absolutely thrilled with the public-private partnership. some of the things i saw in south carolina with you, how you were able to convert a place that was previously a refuge for drug addicts and people who were selling drugs and all kinds of criminal activity and a change that to a flourishing community and the big key being keep in the private sector into the equation they now have an interest in the maintenance of the facility. there are a number of different types of programs one of the ones we are proposing now would take part of the monthly subsidy and put it into an escrow account. you are very familiar with thats concept and then it is tied to that particular unit and all of the routine maintenance comes out of the escrow, so if the

screen needs to be replaced its come out of that if you learn to lift the lid and takes the and e plunge of itself is growing and uv public support with any number of years, you get the entire amount for a down payment because as you know, that is one of the major impediments for poor people that they gave up to buy a home. they may be able to maintain its that they would never be able to get it in the first place. they've also learned how to think like a homeowner and that is what these self-sufficiency programs aren't about is getting them to the point where they are able to accumulate savings, where they are able to take advantage of the educational opportunities and able to get the training that they need and able to provide day care for a lofor oneof thefor alot of the y can get their ged, associates degree, bachelors degree another to be self-sufficient and teach

it to their children so we can break the cycles of poverty that have plagued the country. >> i will just close and wrap this up with a few thoughts. first, i appreciate your view of looking for ways to move folks towards self sufficiency as we continue to focus on the active jobs we will be surprised with the outcome if the distractions that we've seen in the news i appreciate you taking the responsibility as you just did and i appreciate the fact that you've set up internal controls so that won't be repeated and i hope this leads us back to what we should be focused on is the incredible human potential that resides in so many places but only needs hope and opportunity and a pathway carved forward so that they can make the decision to move forward because i know that they want to and they will

if given the opportunity. the rest of the show should be stopped and moved out of the way so folks can see the best and brightest days ahead of them. >> senator jones. >> thank you mr. chairman and mr. secretary for being here. i would like to talk a little bit about as i understand it and correct me if i'm wrong, the budget proposal is to eliminate funds for the community development block grants and much in my state i think has been impacted on a lot of those block grants particularly with regards to sievers we have some serious issues in alabama particularly in the block of sanitation and sewer systems that are outdated, that all sewage is being backed up into homes and i know that is not the

case for everyone but it's a serious problem in alabama, so i haven't seen in the president's proposal for certain infrastructure dollars available for these projects, so how would you address in the housing context the issue. >> thank you for the question and congratulations on your election. >> cdbg has a positive impact in many areas of the country. there've also been problems with directing the funds to those that are supposed to be impacted such as the low-income individuals. there's other mechanisms taking care of but i will tell you there are billions of dollars in the pipeline already. it's going to take more than a year to disperse those funds.

number two, through programs like the opportunity zones it will be possible to address many of the same types of issues while at the same time encouraging tremendous inputs of private capital. >> i would invite you to come to alabama to see some of this but look, i'm all in favor of the opportunities. i think that's a great idea about do you expect the new york investor or somebody can invest money in one of the poorest counties in alabama to help with their supers do you think that is something an investor is going to do? >> when it's incorporated into a larger project when you incorporate the whole area very frequently have to deal with the

infrastructure problems as well, you have to deal with the housing problems as well, so all of them are interconnected. >> i hope you are right. i question whether we are going to get that kind of private investment in areas impacted most in rural america about be that as it may, i am hoping i think congress will continue to fund those grants. the other thing i want to follow up on i his senator shelby's question about the dilapidated housing that is apparently a problem you've recognized. but again the administration proposed to eliminate the housing capital fund that repairs this public housing. it is aging and we have $50 million that usually comes in a into those funds are also desperately needed. how are you going to make up that difference to address the

varying needs to use your stuff talked about a few minutes ago in your answer to senator shelby? >> one of the things i've noticed is that we are not building a lot of public housing anymore and there i there's a gd reason for that. it generally tends to fall into disrepair simply because there isn't the local interest in it. by converting these to public-private partnership opportunities, through things like this program but have been extremely successful, 88,000 units have already been revamped that way we have 30,000 more scheduled for this year and a waiting list. that coupled with the monies that will be brought through the opportunity zones i think we'll

take care of a lot of issues with in excess of $2 trillion those are major, major changes. we hope that you are right but also hope congress can come back and once again find a different route and continue to fund the program as well as the development block grants. i appreciate your efforts and one thing i will say i do appreciate the fact that despite the distractions i appreciate the fact you are focusing on trying to lift people up, that is a good thing. i just don't want to ignore the fact that people despite the efforts to lift them up they just can't quite make it and there's a lot of people in my

state despite their efforts and their desire and their heart they just can't quite make it and we need to be there for those people continually. >> i agree we do need to be there for them, but that is part of the reason we are embarking upon the project because we want to put the resources in place conveniently for them. the reason you are successful and i am successful is because there were things in the environment and people that help us along the way. nobody makes it on their own. >> welcome to the committee. >> when we met in my office before your confirmation, we talked a little bit about how i thought you could be a change agent in the department and what was going to be critical was fairly quickly get in and identify programs that are

working and double down on them and identify programs that are not returning the value and take the top political position we can put this money to a better higher purpose. i think the discussion about reducing the resources right now is premature. i think you probably need what you have and some more. what progress have you made in terms of looking at the department and trying to really affect change so we know we are getting the best value in having an impact on the people that need it? >> thank you for asking that question. we have made enormous amounts of progress. first of all, in terms of stabilizing the mutual mortgage insurance fund and in terms of stopping the hemorrhaging coming from the reverse mortgage program stopping the endorsement of peace loans which were

putting the taxpayers at risk, stopping the churning going on with veterans and the strengthening the program and other homelessness programs it's one of the reasons we've asked more for homelessness than we ever did before. looking at the actual numbers is over 7,000 programs we are looking at the ones that actually work, evidence-based changes and then looking internally this is the first time we have had a cfo in years. what happens when you don't have a cfo in a large organization? you develop site blows each one of which thinks that they are doing things in a correct way. we are bringing that all under

one dome and assigning responsibilities and i think that is making a large difference and its rustling a few feathers in some places. people don't like change. that's okay. it's change for the good and it's going to work in the long run. >> i didn't plan to speak about it senator jones prompted the thought and i think it's important for you to hold the line on identifying as many people you can left up and out of any reliance mainly because that will provide you ultimately with more resources for those as the senator correctly stated and it may not. so i think we have to constantly make sure we've got the balance right so that we can have that impact that changes the trajectory of somebody's life and when you do that, then you can start focusing on those that have unique circumstances that

may be with additional resources they can be lifted out other circumstances. i think it's important somebody that was in those circumstances and actually relates to my next question about a month ago i was in nashville where i spent my junior year in high school years and i went on a trip down memory lane. i think to sugarcane land which was the trailer park religion and took a picture of the trailer and it made me think about manufactured housing and about people who i ended up having to live there and i moved out and went back to live on my own. i don't think most people realize the regulatory burden that we place on the citizens of the united states it's the poorest among us the hardest and if you are buying a mobile home and manufactured housing and you've got to go through the

regulations do we have today, there's no doubt you are creating a higher price point. it could be the difference can a single wide in a single wide with a bummed out. but what are you doing -- that is more of a level you may not be able to answer the question specifically but it's one example of regulatory streamlining and relief that i think we need to focus on and there's a number of others. >> i'm glad you brought that up. manufactured housing accounts for 10% of single-family dwellings. 22 million households, so it is substantial and it's actually a potential solution for some of the housing particularly in rural areas.