[inaudible conversations] can f and materials. these are available to watch

online. . o >> now our coverage continues with laura jacobs to offer ersatz ofof misconceptions of trap -- trans gender and gender non conforming people. so look negative up of baltimore book festival.ook fair this is in any event we have been organizing about 10 years they bring the best to the baltimore book festival voices that don't appear anywhere else and we pushed that envelope to get people thinking in different ways. so we are super thrilled to see a crowd.

monica addie's still want to do this? this is organized by the coffee shop of a quarter at north and maryland we would like you to come to check us out. also a book table back here. end to check it out. so now i will turn the of microphone over to talk about transgendered with this topic. please welcome monica to the stage. [applause] >> so this is really big

because the of book fair had grown register realize it was this much and i am honored to be here for those of you who don't know from the transgendered alliance we are targeted station is to bring people with an idea into the organization and for those police commissioners to change the way baltimore in gauges with the trans gender community.

so starting with named mistake is pursuing her doctorate now a 28 year-old transgendered women. and the woman approached me what to do is actually working today's so he cannot be here. with of coalition of individuals to find a the way with the voices in the city. i have to engage people in the city to listen to wes to o have all kinds of promises

broken bin to have special needs so there are things that people don't understand it is a depressed for me feel a thing i want to do is that there are things like that they cannot wrap their heads around. people cannot still wrappe their heads around how all that it gender does not make me a present for pope --. i do the same thing when anybody else goes to the bathroom. so what we decided was to take action to focus of t political energy so that baltimore transgendered

alliance with trans gender women of color so these trans gender women were murdered. that led to the uprising. those rand up planning stages. so we need to have more urgency around this actions actn with one of the women who was murdered disappeared. so what i am talking about is maya hall. maia we heard what happened to her they were in a joy ride

in the history of drug abuse so the story went away. so the community needs to take our place so that boston transplants so weal continue to be a force in baltimore to address police and justice and misconduct with civil rights and human rights and equality.haul. so it is what we have of co-conspirators in and they

need to do actions with us. we're all in this together because everybody's in justice is about everybody. [applause] >> tarweed dealing with a the he to okay? so this gives us the importance cents of what is going on in the community where this is so relevant. i am one of the co-authorss, of the book. your in the wrong bathroom. that is how you pronounce that.wron hopefully this will be interactive and then you have to talk.

so my name is laura jacobs by date i am a psychotherapist i talk to people most of my clients are trans of some varietymost o icy transgendered people from adolescence to adulthood. so i so a wide range of people sought to push the hot pot to a -- so not by day at night i work with the lgbt health center started almost 50 years ago to provideer service is primarily to the lgbt community regardless of that ability if you're unsure undocumented to get high-quality care so we're

making sure everybody from someone like me to maybe walking the streets and getting good health care. bit and really trying to be a paid in the ass. into it with gender through those gender norms.'s but still. event these issues are

getting public debates and 20 years ago talking aboutey transgendered it was very stigmatized end now that'd is in the public eye anybody seems to be talking about trans gender issues. your child your nephew or whatever. so things are so very different. so when you watch the newsou see north carolina people talk about the trans issues you see different sides of the story.

what are they hearing in the media? what kinds of stories are you hearing of a narrative? anybody brave enough? [inaudible conversations] london of the things we are hearing is it will be expensive a cousin of health care cost and what not.sts, n but on the other side there are transgendered people to say we're happy with and will cost a lot of money to get rid of them in trade them so contrary information

what is real land what it is not. that somebody heard somebodydy say something. it feels like the time is right.he to bring up the above the of issues. and to spend some time if there are more and more trans in the world what that real information is? they need to counter those negatives in then tends to manipulate.ly that is a huge part why we wrote the book.

so they work in mental health people so they could provide better care. i don't want to talk to a much about this but also to solicit because of of you may have heard out there. >> so those trade is people want to be barbie or 10. so can anybody tell me? or what you think?

[inaudible conversations] >> to paraphrase tuesday -- to say the most important thing for tribespeople or what they hear passing is a word to live as you want to live without anybody knowingto . but not to get harassed. and dad used to be one of the criteria.rv years ago the doctors would control who would have access to medical services. you can only get those services through the

institution. and to change their and gender and for those they were and leave to thosee services. not living up to that criteria. so some of those is what we look at today and that you had to pass and what could and to live up to those social more. -- norms. you could not like trucks or sports in you had to live up to that land we heterosexual.

that is not who you were but did he show any signs of regret? it were kicked outut of the program. over a couple of years at johns hopkins day want to guess how many got to the program? about 2,000. how many? twenty-four. and what about the others? 190076? is to be kicked out of the of the local program ending just thoughts of suicide.

in now to see more and more people those that were not living the by very male but those that could craft gender of their own making for those that blurred the lines or they don't have a gender and that could have been a criteria but now would never your story is coming is find i don't care if you know, the engaged 545 if you figure it out. all i carryout your thoughtful about the decisions you're making about your life how you are proceeding and my job is to make thoughtful decisions.

i don't care of your head a road normative for not. and then to get those transitions. so all transgendered people are crazy or mentally ill? how many people heard something like that? ended is a belief in it you have y to go through very rigid period to get access to services.ces i and that there be was not designed to explore and think about what jedburgh the means but that there be is designed to determine if

you are pretending or not. into live up those standards . and then kicked of the programs of the other part of the is there has been a diagnosis about trans identity since the '70s? a big book of mental health disorders. that is what the therapist uses to diagnose people if you have depression orha anxiety or whenever. so if there is a diagnosis had to say it is not? so there has been pushed back

against that certainly in the '90s with the transit and gender career get used to it but there is a push back. now it is listed as discomfort with your gender. even that j.j. of the language that can change that. i have known people so they don't need three months. in a that is a lot of history of the. they have to figure this out.

>> it to be proscribed. >> in to get away for so long. >> sometimes people could not content and for then one other reason so this is not that important to you. we will kick you out of the program. and it is used to love of doctors to be paternalistic

a lot of this comes back to policing the social norms. in in the kind of standards that we think of. they could be gay and belize -- lesbian with poverty issues they'll point to privilege the society does not love people that do not fit in. . .

of studies lately, studies show that transyouth in unsupportive environment, parents don't accept, the school doesn't accept. maybe they'll live in a community that's not so supportive for religious reasons or any other reason, right, those are the kids who have the really high rates of anxiety, depression and suicidal gestures.

the rate of suicidal gestures in the transgender community are extraordinarily high. the studies say that rates, the number of transpeople who have attempted suicide throughout the course of their life is 41%. 41%. that means four out of every ten transpeople give or take has attempted suicide in their life. in the general population it's like 1.5. what we know is it's the transkids who grow up in unsupportive environments that have those kinds of depression, anxiety. the transkids who grow up in environments, the parents accept them, school is cool, they do just as well as any other kid in their grade in their school, they don't show higher rates of anxiety, school performances are good and so on. you know, when we think they are too young to know, we are sort of saying, well, they can't know

themselves and we want them to continue to suffer until they are old enough for us to feel okay with them and that's -- you know, some people say that's not making a decision, that's like letting time play out and we are just going to sort of wait and see, right, but wait and see it's a decision in and of itself. wait and see, we are going to force these kids to undergo more torture, more torment until, you know, we have set this arbitrary number at 18 that they are ready to transition. transition doesn't happen overnight and my experience is that some kids start the process and they maybe decide that this isn't really for them and they stop. the kids who seem to not want to persist, don't, and they are fine with it. they say, well, i tried this for a while, i don't think it was me and that's fine. and so the process just by

virtue of how long it takes, it helps people figure it out. in my experience, the ones that need to slow down, slow themselves down. it's a myth we hear all of the time that transparency people are too young to know, transyouth and nobody is putting 5-year-olds through surgeries, come on, that's one of the arguments you hear. nobody is doing surgery on a 5-year-old to change gender. yeah. i don't know a doctor who would do that. so other myths, anybody. >> transpeople are being deceptive -- >> people are being deceptive, sure. isn't always a joke, we've all heard the joke, somebody went into the bar, they were hanging out, pick somebody for the night, they get up to the hotel, oh, my god the woman has a penis, she was trying to mess

with me, whatever. i mean, i suppose there are some people like that out there but in general, no. transpeople are trying to live their life like anybody else. just like you were saying earlier, transpeople are trying to find partners, date and live their life. is it -- if i met you on the street, is it necessarily your business that i'm trans? you're shaking your head, no. if we were talking, hanging out, asking if i'm trans, think about what's behind the question. if you're asking if i'm tran, what are you asking about? you're kind of asking me about my body, right, and you're kind of asking what does she have under her clothes. what's under there, frankly, if i meet you on the street, that's none of your business no more

than it's my business to ask you to like, what do you have, can we talk about it, you want to tell me about it, you want to tell me when you first knew that was right for you, you want to tell me if you had any medical procedures down there, i could probably go on, right, when you're trying to figure somebody who is trans, you're sort of asking that question. i was -- i transitioned many years ago when i was in school and a woman came up to me in a cafeteria ones. i hadn't seen her in a while. class friends, acquaintances, she sits down across from me in the cafeteria and she says, she doesn't even say hello, she says, hey, i hear you had surgery over the summer. like what the -- what are you saying, who the hell are you? again, none of her business.

what's between my legs, it's none of her business. if you and i are going to bed together, that may become your business, but we talk about that. by in large, transpeople know that that is a really bad idea to just sort of try to trick somebody. we hear all of the time about murderers, we know that this community is subject to violence both emotional violence, sexual violence and murder. transpeople are acutely aware of that. i can't say that it never happens to somebody that doesn't disclose, but we know the risks. so i don't think we are trying to trick people. i think we are just trying to live our lives and keep what's private, private. you want to get together afterwards and talk about what's between our legs, we can get a drink, sorry, i'm being silly.

and then we will talk about it. but barring that, it's -- it's no more your business than me talking about your body, it's my business. so other myths or things that people believe -- yeah. [inaudible] >> sure. a little bit about what we were talking about earlier, that's the idea that most people wanting to from as you say one side of the spectrum like being very male to very female, right. who have we seen that in lately? caitlin jenner. thank you, i'm not going to go there. i would really like to but i'm not going to go there. you know, i assume that that's authentic for her and i'm not dismissing her being trans, that that's her narrative. i wish she would be more thoughtful about everything else that she does.

but we see that a lot. we see that in caitlin jenner, we see in other people who are more cool, janet, lavern cox, plenty who go from one end to the other end and are more thoughtful about it and understands the politics that goes on there. but that's the stereotype, right. look at me, i will tell you -- i'm not going to tell you too much about my body, i was born male, here i am, you know, i'm wearing polish, i have long hair, you can maybe make guesses about my body if you look at my clothes and how i'm dressed but i'm also dressed in shirt and tie and a vest and slacks and sort of, you know, boots and not spikey 9-inch stilettos. and as i was saying earlier, which maybe you missed that, there were standards that you had to live up to in order to get care and if you didn't live

up to those, you were kicked out. going from one end to the other was really a lot of what that was about. so, next. yeah. >> people -- transpeople are just confused. >> we are going to grow out of that? have you heard this? i don't know if people said it to you or not. people said it to me and people say it about my clients and specially when i have a youth come to me to start to pursue therapy, parents are often, are wondering if this is just a phase. you know, two weeks ago my kid wanted to be a musician and now they want on the artist and six months before that they wanted to be an astronaut and a year before that they told me they were a kitten. maybe it's just a phase. i hear that all of the time. the rates of people who go through transition and then

regret it are small. like we are talking like far less than 1%. i don't know the exact number. if we just look at the community and anecdotal data from what we see, people don't grow out of it. this is something that is deep and personal part of who you feel like you are, who you know yourself to be inside. whether that means you feel like you were born in the wrong body, or you don't feel that, feel something else, the stories behind that can vary but people who believe that are trans, it's very rarely a phase. i've seen it sometimes. that usually plays itself out and you figure that out before anybody has surgery or what not. and even if -- even if it was a

phase, let's say it was a phase, i'm not saying it is. hypothetically. let's say it was a phase and you were born female and you lived as a guy for two years and then you decided, well, not really. what's wrong? why is that wrong? transition should be fixing a problem and correcting it for once and forever, everything is right with the world and you just go on, right? it's a pretty shallow view of gender as a whole. gender is far more complicated. i suspect -- looking around, i see some people who are dressed in minery ways and i can probably make some assumptions about your gender and i see some people who are not. but even if i sat down with some of you who -- who to me like

kind of binary, if we really start today talk about it, your genders would be nuance than just male or female, right? why is that not allowed for transpeople, why are we not okay with the nuance sometimes leading somebody down a winding path? what's wrong with that? gender is this amazing complex multidimensional part of who we are. i believe that transpeople or many of us are exploring this facet of life and relationships and power and existential questions about how we fit into the universe through their process of exploring their own gender. i wouldn't exactly expect that to be a straight path, right, you're exploring this thing that's multifaceted and nuance.

so if the path winds back, what's wrong with that? the stereotype, you are supposed to know, it's not suppose to be a phase and you are just supposed to fix it and then life goes on, but our lives are in many, many ways far more nuance than that and why can't we allow that of transpeople just like everybody else? okay, a question? okay. i got a smile there. others, other myths or things that people feel have heard, thought of about gender or anything else? yeah. >> running parallel to the confusion, -- [inaudible] >> is that manager -- something happened. >> there are high rates of drama in the transgender community. we are talking about emotional violence, physical violence,

sexual violence, rapes are many more times more than the population and it's tragic. and even transpeople don't necessarily experience acute trauma like being assaulted, what do you think it's like to be in a body that doesn't feel like yours for 20 years or even 10 years, 30 or 40, i have clients in 50's and 60's? you could argue that's chronic ongoing trauma rather than acute trauma. but does that mean that transpeople are -- that trauma is what drives people to be trans? it goes back to the argument, you've been traumatized and you can't connect with your body and you're running away who you were or not evolving your trauma issues and what not and while there are high rates of trauma, plenty of transpeople don't have anything like that in their history and you can't find --

you can do the most in-depth history assessment of their lives and you won't find any of that and why would it be imfor somebody to have drumma -- trauma and be trans? why does this go back to the idea that some of the early doctors were, were proceeding from which is the idea that -- that transness can be avoided. a lot of our historical services aimed for transpeople really were founded on those assumptions. they may not have articulated it ? >> written it down or understood it in their minds, but the idea was, you know, we should avoid all across and maybe it is fixable and let's fix it and, you know, even if it's not

fixable, like only in rarest last resort to treat people who can't otherwise exist, right? and so we think that if transpeople are trans because of trauma, heal trauma and they won't be trans anymore and won't help transition which messes with societal norms and everybody goes peacefully. it is really sad that so many transpeople have experiences of trauma but the idea that trauma underlies is really not at all true. anybody want to throw any others ? [inaudible] >> okay. that's one of the biggies, there's probably many. i know transrabbis, clergy in

christianity, i know transmuslims who are devout, i know transbuddhist and many begin the idea that it's so constricting that no queer person trans or gay would ever want to be a person of faith. that's not really true. a lot of transpeople are very devout. and that provides -- did you have a question? [inaudible] >> yeah, yeah. we are all pedophiles. those transpeople in the room can sort of, we can have a pedophile support group after this. sorry. [laughter] >> yeah. i don't even know where to begin

with this one because it's so ridiculous, you know. we are all perverts, we all are all having weird kinky sex and that involves young children and we are just trying to seduce them to the dark side and we are going to mess with young children because we have don't morals and we don't care about society's rules, we don't care about society, what the hell, of course, we are going to break the child molestation bullshit. i don't know if i'm supposed to be that, whatever. but, no. somebody mentioned transpeople in the bathroom before and so much of the -- so many arguments about transbathroom that is we are hearing right now and that we have heard for many, many years is that transpeople are going to assault our women and children in bathrooms, that you allow transpeople in the bathroom and all hell is going to break loose.

they are going to be committing physical assault and sexual assault and just messing with our women. it doesn't happen. there is literally no -- there are literally no documented cases of that happening. literally zero that i'm aware, that i have ever seen and that anybody i know has ever heard of. if it happens, there are already laws, there's laws against people victimizing in the bathroom. you say transpeople can't use bathroom of their choice, that law already exists, so we are forcing transpeople to use the bathroom that they don't agree with based on no data and we are putting much more at risk. transpeople who have to use a bathroom that doesn't feel appropriate for them are very much subject to violence. sexual and otherwise.

so we are putting onus on marginalized people based on no data. are there transpedophiles, i have never met one but there -- why don't we have pedophile bathrooms. that's kind of ridiculous. same is true of, you know, the transbathroom argument and in some ways, it goes back to this thing, we don't want transpeople in our culture. on north carolina was one of the states, a few others that are pursuing this kind of legislation or have, right, so let's think this through for a second. you and i go out for dinner, we are having a nice time, we are relaxing, maybe we have a few

drinks, glass of water, whatever, right, maybe we go to a movie or a mall or something like that, right, sooner or later i'm going to have to pee just because i have a blahedder the size of a walnut. if i can't go to a bathroom that feels comfortable for me, what am i going to do? hold it in, whatever. next time i'm probably not going to go out, next time i'm probably going to stay home or move to another state because not allowing transpeople to use an appropriate bathroom is not just about bathrooms. it's about we don't want these people here, we want to make it uncomfortable for you to live here so much so that we are not going to -- that you're not going to want to live here. we have seen this before, people, right? water fountains, people of color having to eat in the back of the

restaurant -- you know, the back entrance, all sorts of other situations. it's the same nonsense rehashed. a few other questions? we have maybe five minutes or so . questions, thoughts, or beliefs. oh, i'm sorry. [inaudible] >> you know, transpeople serving in the military are ultimately serving a government that is at least right now hostile to needs

. some of them didn't join under an administration that was hostile to their own needs. some of them have been there for a long time. many of them didn't join as transpeople. most of them probably argue, joined because they believed in it. they have family traditions or they believe in serving or they believe that serving your country in that way is honor -- is an honorable thing to do. i kind of think that there would be fewer wars, but i also don't want to judge people living what they feel is right for them. if they don't feel like it's -- if they don't feel like it's a contradiction or they're willing to ride that out during the current times, who am i to say that they shouldn't?

i would be just as guilty as the people who want to police us to more restrictive roles. i don't know -- you had -- >> i look as civilian. i mostly do it because i need a job. it's one of those things where it doesn't matter, i just need the money and it also gets training and -- >> this person came here came out as transman in the military, you're a civilian you said but you are working with the military and needs a job sounds like it's a good job for you, right? and so people have all sorts of needs. i have a friend who works in the state department, he didn't start there, he's doing lgbt work. he's still able to sort of

somewhat fly under the radar and do left turn work, should he quit? change in all sorts of ways? the generals would only be supportive of transpeople in the military if they see transpeople doing good jobs in the military. even just seeing the generals stand up for transpeople is a powerful message. i guess, you know, i'm a therapist when i'm working with somebody i want to put my own judgments aside. do i have my own beliefs, yeah, sure. but who am i to say that they have to live a certain way. i don't know if that addresses your concern, over here. one and then two. >> that was a good time to be transgender woman in the military and always taught -- she felt that one of the best ways for her to make change is to be in the military?

>> people feel like the best way to make change in institution is from within. you know, if you're outside an institution and poking them in the eye with a stick saying, you need to change, they're probably not going the change, you're right, because you're poking them in the eye. if you're inside you have a different relationship a relationship where you can make change. i'm not saying activism and external work isn't important, you're right. there's people that are able to do work for change inside and that can be powerful too. yeah, over here. >> a while ago you mentioned that transgender people should be allowed to be as nuance in profession as other people, my question is, i'm finding that people who do not declare themselves transgender are in recent years being forced into

much more rigid standards than they were when i was say, 20, which was a long time ago, so i'm finding that -- sorry, i'm watching my grandchildren there. i'm finding that once somebody deciding they are not going to be whatever description was of an adult woman, people say you must be transgender, no, i just like wearing painter's pant or wearing my hair short, whatever the heck it is, trivial things, style -- >> in the interest of time, i think i got the question. what she's saying she's feeling people that are expressing nuance gender are sometimes forced into identifying as trans because they don't live up to social norms who discomfort are we addressing in that situation?

if we are -- i think it's a good point. if we are sort of -- if there's societal pressures to adopt a general binary, and maybe they don't identify as trans, who is that helping? it's not helping the individual, right? they are comfortable with nuance expression of gender. it's helping society because society is uncomfortable with ambiguity and uncomfortable things that don't fit into neat little boxes and maybe there is pressure. there is pressure, yes. .. ..

>> >> there is an argument that more visibility means more pressure than people are aware of the nuanced genders we live in a complicated time people are exploring

gender in all sorts of ways there are pressures helping people or harming people or not working in their best interest and i am really glad to see that there is such cool and amazing thing with their genders. even looking around this room. so even one or two generations out but the rest of you are screwed but how we understand gender that it evolves that we cannot even understand right now i can show you if i had another half-hour but now a cut of time.

i want to thank the bookstore for hosting this and all of you for coming year and listen to me babble for the last 45 minutes and help people think about that relationship or to help understand a community that made you never had contact with before so thank you for coming the of book is for sale. [applause] >> up next from the radical book fair at the baltimore book festival andrea ritchie leads a discussion on how