[laughs] >> well, unfortunately, we're out of time, thanks for the wonderful questions and thanks to our office. [applause] >> is there a nonfiction author or book you would like -- >> what do you do for a living? ..

>> >> i had a hard time introducing myself through my tenacity. and what i did, read this agent said you wanted to his autobiography. i said no i don't. he said yes you do. copper i know what a

ghostwriter does if you do make those written book it is a much larger market for a biography. and i still don't want to do a. away to do in my own name the main agents said if that would change my life and which book would you prefer to actually read? a book written from somebody like you about which are all sort of book about ray charles written his voice? i said i would much prefer to write in his voice and he said did you should write the book you want to to read not just the one the you should write to. so that changed everything

and i discovered there was a musicality in his voice. as you know, relearn to speakers. if there is day musicality in his voice if i pretend i mgm then i am making music. there isn't anything i would rather do. but tutu his voice i discovered i have a gift and is about the approximation because if you do it - - just to a transcription and

to read that, in the context of a book, that is that a good representation of my voice because one thing that i learned early is the eye is much different than the year. when you try to create a literary voice that is the half of artifice that the person is talking to you in a conversational way. so to do that you have to move from the liberal transcription to raise scoping or giving a person a literary voice.

and that is art. as a function as i begin to do it. >> host: did you have any connection to ray charles? >> yes. i had written in high school and college with advertising and academic essays there and journalism. i had done a lot of writing. i was comfortable with the act but not to be a ghost that was entirely new per cry went to college and graduate school i got the m.a. bay it did not prepare me to be a ghost writer i did not prepare for that.

the only two books i really had in my consciousness was the autobiography of billie holiday. that i loved as a young boy i remember that was written by a ghostwriter. fell on the cover said as was told to william. i asked my father who is the? he said he is probably the guy who wrote the book i said no no-no. she is talking to you. my father told me that is what he does for her. he gives you the idea that she is actually writing the book. then i remember asking does he get to go to her house?

my father said i presume he does then i remember i said that is the job by one to. that is the job i have. >> host: looking at the books you have ghostwritten ghostwritten, willie nelson. >> just about to hit the stores. there i am on the cover. [laughter] at the bottom. >> host: did you appear on the cover of re charles? >> i have always appeared on every book other than one. and in the beginning with ray charles and others it was important because i still had not gotten over the idea that ghostwriters are looked at as a

subcategory. it took a long time to be comfortable with that. >> host: and other book with just your name on it. >> that is a whole different story and in 1995 but i did this with ray charles because i loved her music as passionately as rates charros but i will chase after artist and tell liking get of meeting to convince them to hire me. and in the case ever read

the franklin i did. in the mid-1980s she hired major ghostwrite her autobiography but it was an instance and the only one, where i had a hard time with any emotional intimacy with her. so the book came out and i was happy with the book to continue my research to put up my own biography that i recall respect because i eighth did not feel that i honor the complexities of her story enough to do her

autobiography but i don't expect to do that again soon but the books on ray charles or b.b. king or robinson nor marvin gaye, they're not perfect but i feel from a historical point of view if you want to get to know these people and hear them telling you their stories then the books are accurate end could with a soul and heart but i just did not feel that way. >> when you make an arrangement such as willie nelson or smokey robinson,

is there a nondisclosure agreement? can you be censored by the main author? >> guest: yes. i am glad you asked me that because that is one of the interesting things i give away all control. i have no control. i was sad day conference in austin on a panel of prayer refers and one attacked me said he should not be here because he is a ghostwriter and that is not a biographer and one of the reasons i cannot trust the book he has no editorial control. and i had to agree. i didn't agree that i should not be on the panel or who is the holy bible of the

bible other them the holy ghost there are others that are written so chilkat but going back to the point of control one of the points when it is an issue you get more control because is it is on the table as a point of contention. so knowing that he or she has that the editorial content but to gain more intimacy usually at the end of the process to gain enough of the trust that i

can pretty much control the content of the book. but generally i think our biggest addiction is controlled. anytime i can give away control limit happier person to work with greater integrity and empathy because those trading is all about is sympathy and compassion because in order to get people to open their hearts they have to feel as though you're not judging them so if i have done well and i think i have, that i can open my heart with the people that i work with to

establish this into madrepore. i am a surrogate for the person who reads the book. many people would like to be in my position to get to hang out with ray charles o. or willie nelson four days or a week at a time to listen to him tell stories. so for those who want to gain access. >> host: is it profitable? >> guest: it is. one of the other challenges, it is interesting to say what is

the purpose? when is the purpose says a writer? one is to avoid a nervous breakdown. the other is to make a living. if you have a nervous breakdown, you cannot make a living to make a living you cannot make - - seven nervous breakdowns us a free-lance writer it has been important to make a living and not go nuts. and goes trading was a great way for me.

from a financial point of view. because to be in the market for stars they have an audience laugh have written barker fees than novels and essays. i have written a lot of stuff. but i keep my concentration on those trading because it is rare art and commerce comes from a primary commercial writer at heart. i want people to read maya books and have a large audience.

of the alleged right at an advertising agency. one say copywriter always day copywriter. as i said before, i gave up advertising because it was too easy i have been dosed trading 41 years and i'm still challenged because it is hard and you don't ever seem to get a right. if you don't ask me to go straight your book by half to get to know you. to enter into your heart and your head. and how you tell stories with the mechanics of will i

be a good enough psychologist? with this basis i can i do in this interview because i am talking. >> host: what if you would agree to write the book and i say i don't want your name on it? to one that is our that has happened. because i would like to be a person to say i would not care. but i think i am more chill down version of the however my ego. one reason i'm happy to be a ghost writer because i made it big as a non ghostwriter

from stephen king or james joyce. but i went go nuts with maya amygdala. but because in order to be a ghostwriter, you have to deal with your ego and suppress and tend to the holder of your ego. -- the concord that is what i said in the original story to win the nobel prize. so i thank god that i am a ghostwriter because i wanted

to get more gigs. and i train myself to a the ego. so i am relatively chilled out in the area but not completely. but my answer might be good. they give me another $80,000. >> no no-no every book is different with the negotiation. your agent usually

negotiates with the manager. but every book is different. >> host: you have also written with tavis maile. >> this is number three and we are working on number four. the publisher of doubleday at the time named steve rubin, had tavis under contract for an autobiography. there is said big mogul in the music business for the records during the michael

jackson-- . in any event rubin thought we would be a bed combination so he wrote his autobiography. them last year we did a book together about margin after king, jr. -- martin luther kings junior and recently were work together on maya angelou and his relationship to her but tavis is a ideal collaborator because he appreciates what i do and shows me a great respect and love and how he speaks and his voice and is a good storyteller. it is a great combination. >> host: is the coast trading business pretty big

that we don't know about? eighty-one yes. the one area is a deep rose you don't have your name on it but a deep goes to someone who has ghostwritten a book typically politicians will use the deep coast because they want to give the idea of actually wrote the book. i have not done a survey but at a noted is a majority of books written by politicians or a large number. and i will tell you one interesting story about that. i was on an airplane going to make conference. i was next to where

well-known novelist that i will not name. he asked what they did for a living and i told him. he said that is interesting he asked which both said had done. he said the only problem i have with that is i don't have a lot of respect for a person who wants to write his life story and does that do it by himself. i turned to him and i said why? you can have a great story but not have the chops to tell its. and just because you don't have the chops to ride it doesn't mean the world should not enjoy at. not everybody knows how to write a 400 page book of

peaceably and authentically. pharao always be a need for ghostwriters. there'll always be people with compelling stories to tell you just don't have the training. by holding tell and tell the cannot any more. >> host: what is your connection to marvin gaye? >> i loved him all lot. i want to do here is the autobiography and i just adored him and in 1979, he

pried out an album which was an autobiographical musical treatment with the acrimonious divorce he was going through with his wife. and the critics panned it and i loved it and praising and arguing he did and he called me every began working on his book. and he roundup in belgium. i continue to work on his autobiography and that is where rewrote healing

together that was my way to try to help him understand what he was going through. it was a big hit he came back to the united states. tragically he was murdered by his dad 1984 before we had a chance to complete his autobiography. so i took a year in 1985 to write a book called divided soul which was my biography of him and begin that is unusual for me that it was not ghostwritten but had i given the choice of much

prefer to have done his autobiography but he was gone. so the book is full of his voice and quotations and conversations over the years. to be aristocratic and sweet and gentle and troubled and charismatic like a prince. he had the elevated consciousness. >> in fact, when you wrote that song you were pretty well gone on a cocaine? >> we were high almost all the time that i worked with more financial thank i was ever with him when we were not high together.

his main thing was pot and i was a heavy pot smoker and cocaine. >> host: have you made a lot of money? you still make money today? >> guest: yes. it is an incredible international hit to help my kids through college and it is amazing how popular that song has been over the years and one of the proudest accomplishments for me with the idea that i could work with marvin gaye to help him to the song going through his mind and he also liked tavis and was a great collaborator.

he appreciated me and to when he saw that literary talent, he read the bible and the caribbean and he was encouraging. >> host: it seems they do have worked with a lot of african-americans. >> guest: i have. i just love the african-american culture and of the music. little ways grozny and while this sent to all day long and well listen to at eight or nine years old. plan gives me by phone innovation is i am drawn to their decision so i can to

see what drives them. what is in their past for their head or their heart he enables them to create this amazing music. so i move to the groove to jazz and gospel and r&b. >> host: what is your background? >> guest: i am jewish. new york 1943. i am 71 years old. i became a christian to 2005 niner 10 years ago and it is interesting asked about african-american music i am drawn to the african-american church and when i was the little boy

every bloody scene to not just to have a good time but to be important and rich and warm and loving and encouraging but i always had my nose pressed against the glass when i was an old man i said i will think we're dash i think i would go in the church and to get that nurturing that i always wanted to have. it was then the theology of the subject but it is a love than the positive energy

with the acceptance of others. you hear the glow and the excitement and the nurturing that i hear that i think with aretha respect one of the reasons she is as creighton she is coming she has a father who's a well-known preacher that is an african-american. one thing he taught her is it is all about jazz and r&b to go against the tradition at the time but one of the reasons she is such a great singer she has no complex about that. and that is what i believe

that hopkins and muddy waters and to be as her call as listening to jackson. >> host: nondisclosure agreements. are there things you would like to point in the wilson book for you signed a legal agreement know i can? and you can talk about it? >> no. i didn't have any nondisclosure agreement. they have editorial control so they can cut out what they want to maybe that = nondisclosure, but i did not sign a piece of paper that i cannot tell the world what he told me not to tell.

in the case of willie nelson, basically he did tell everything but he is a generous guy and a gentleman. he did not throw anyone under the bus but that whole issue of nondisclosure and censorship has never been an impediment to my work. but aretha franklin i did feel as though i wanted to tell more and there was more to the story. >> host: has your stutter ben an impediment? >> guest: it is interesting that you mentioned and that. a critic recently did a review of the read the book

and in it he did an overview of my career it was a very generous article but it is mitt he said he thought that my stutter help to me to gain the sympathy and empathy of the people that i talk to and as a stutterer i appear to be more empathetic or vulnerable than perhaps i am although i do think i am. that it his view it has helped me as a ghostwriter. he might be right. i has struggled with it my whole life. that somebody acceded you could take a pill and it

would make it go away, would you? i probably would. i think i a phantasize of complete fluency but it is me. but the great thing about being a starter is the you do have to overcome it to agree to have an interview on national tv to say what the hell it doesn't look too good nor sound too good but it is me and there is that it is an emotional obstacle. the other thing is is an honest representation.

in other words, i stuttered less than i normally do because you have made me comfortable. when he was impatient i knew you were comfortable with my stutter so i have but it has not been crazy. were you a different person if i was feeling nervous, i would stutter much more and that would be honest so in that regard it is a good barometer of what is going on with me from the emotional part of view. >> host: of a politician

approached you to write a policy book or a history book would to take the assignment and what would go into that? >> it is interesting you mentioned that. one of my fantasies as a ghostwriter is to be a political ghostwriter above to write presidential speeches. i think it would be a kick in their head and i have the chops to do a. i think i can get the rhythm down but to did that with a politician and i did not think was up to good with

the politician point o i i would positively to it. one analogy about a ghostwriter it is like the attorney in court. basically believe me. and i will do with it in other words, i work with musical stars where it did not work out. so you had to do a book with a politician would be great.

with gary sheffield us the baseball player of mohammad of these daughter as a boxer and i would love to do a book with a politician. >> host: does your dave get out there once your name is on a book? how does that snowball? >> guest: i am still hustling i believe in the tussle. of? story predominated my first book of free charles i got the next day i would get a call from mick jagger and paul mccartney and would have kids for the rest of my life. because rate charles was

such a megastore but nobody calls. nobody called. and you cannot count on the books to generate more work but i have to go all-out also to be very proactive but i don't take anything for granted then what has kept me as the ghostwriter. i like the hustle i like the cold call and i think it is good for us and in other

words, to risk rejection gb to protective i will not talk to this person because they may reject me, that is not the. but i try to tell people if i want to do your book i will book you in the eye so i tried not to be too proud. i have a contract with tavis this is the fourth time together and we're the last 16 weeks of michael jackson is a condensed michael

jackson book. after that i am chasing people. i want to do a book with merle haggard and though i've of and a rock star and lenny kravitz and the books that i want to do. then i am also working on a novel and i am doing a graphic with a history of my relationship sewellel is working on things of the same time some gospel songs

some r&b songs and the eric almost rather write that i love it all. thiamine joining this graphic book that i enjoy toying with the novel but the a diva to sit down and write with a musician to be in the room when the accords are created with all of the activities. >> host: they give for sitting down with the