she was waing in the hallway with her mother and the mothers of the other two americans that continue to be held in iran. we'll take a short break in a couple of minutes, and we'll return to new york on sarah shourd's statements, right after this. the bush tax cuts, should they stay or should they go? welcome to "your money." the future of your taxes. it's the question for your money and politicians gearing up for the mid-term elections. we have candy crowley, anchor of the excellent state of the union. candy, let's talk about the battle lines. where are they being drawn right now as we look ahead toward the mid terms. >> $250,000 battle line is what we're talking about. a household that makes above it or households that make below it. that's where it is. but really, what this is a battle over is who is more for

the middle class. that's why you saw john boehner saying if i got a bill only for middle class tax cuts, of course, i would go ahead and vote for it. giving up the store a lot of republicans felt. ith it's really about running up to an election who is most for the middle class, that's where the rhetorical battle is. >> it looks like there was a fracture early in the week because of what boehner said. and in 48 hours, there's a fracture on the democratic side. >> yes. first of all, more than 30 democrats going, listen, everybody's tax cuts ought to be extented in january, not just those making $250,000 and lower. nancy pelosi came out and said there's no justification for having tax cuts remain for the wealthier americans, but saying in the same news conference, the only thing i can tell you for sure is the middle class tax cuts will be extended. this sort of opened the door for republicans who said this means she's trying to have it both

ways. i think actually what we saw there was nancy pelosi on policy. she doesn't think it's a good idea. and nancy pelosi on politics. it may be have to do all of it. >> jim alison of bloomberg business week. this is a complicated issue, jim. let's try to simplify it. what does the economy need more right now? increased tax revenue to tackle this soaring debt? or an extension of the tax cuts so people don't lose spending? >> the problem is, we can't really afford to have this tax cut done forever. what we need to do is to find some way to spark short-term demand on the part of consumers. two-thirds of our economy is dependent on consumer demand. we have to find a way to extend tax cuts and use it as a stimulus measure. we have to have it for a short enough period, two to three years, so we can get money back pumping into the economy, but not have it where it's a noose around our necks for ten, 15, 20

years. we already know this will cost about $2.2 trillion if we keep it. we can't afford it with the deficits already running over $1 trillion a year. >> i want to get back to that. it sounds like you are talking about threading the needle a bit. mark preston, 31 democrats have broken from president owe became gentleman and urged the bush tax cuts for everyone including the wealthiest americans. so is this a sign that the president's sagging poll numbers have made him a liability for all of the people heading into the mid terms, or is this just about the economic reality? >> no. i think he's certainly a liability for the 31 democrats and perhaps even more. look, president obama is still very well liked by americans when you asked them in these pin polls, but in certain parts of the country, he doesn't play well politically. president clinton didn't play

well. president bush didn't play well in certain parts of the country. and certainly, you know, look toward the south. maybe a little in the midwest. some of these democrats have got to cut president obama loose, and that's what we're seeing. >> jim, let me get back to you on the practicality of the whole thing. it seems to me the problem is you may have had a political reality and an economic reality that simply can't exist in the same room with each other. >> i mean, you're right. long term, we cannot afford to talk about cutting taxes. we shouldn't do it. >> fredricka whitfield in atlanta. back in atlanta. the arrival of sarah shourd, one of the three hikers held in iran for more than a year. she was just released. by way of transfers in oman and dubai, and dulles, they are preparing for her arrival in new york.

>> many individuals and governments have worked so hard for their release. i want to thank the media for your concern for our children. above all, i want to thank my sister cindy, who stands with us here today to share in our joy. cindy and laura, you have been my rock, and i will be yours too. yesterday was my birthday. and i have received the greatest gift of all. but cindy and laura are still waiting for their gifts. and this is why i applaud the humanity that set sarah free, and i cry encore, encore. it's time for shane and josh to come home too. and we will not stop until they are home and we will redouble our efforts to get them out. thank you. >> welcome, everyone, and thank you so much for being here.

i want to begin by, again, expressing my sincere thanks to the government and religious leaders of iran. my gratitude goes in particular to ayatollah khomeini and president ahmadinejad for my compassionate release from detention. it is my deepest hope that the president will not let this humanitarian gesture by the iranian government and judicial branch go unrecognized. i believe this decision is a step in the right direction for all of us. and, above all, for my fiance shane, and my dear friend josh. i will be forever grately for sultan abi ulsayed for the welcome of his people. when i stepped off the plane of the beautiful country, the

caress of the fragrant breeze was a promise. a promise that shane and josh's suffering too will end. i also want to thank ythe american people and our government and people and governments all around the world who have advocated for our release and supported our families for the past 13 months. lastly, i want to extend my gratitude to our lawyer for his tireless work on our behalf and to my friend, ambassador loi of switzerland for her support and continued engagement. getting on the plane in tehran was one of the most measurable and important moments of my life. this is not the time to celebrate. my disappointment in not sharing this with shane and josh is crushing. i stand before you today only one-third free. that was the last thing that josh said to me, before i walked through the prison doors. josh and shane felt one-third

free at that moment, and so did i. the only thing that enabled me to cross the gulf from pronto freedom aileelone was that shand josh wanted with their hearts for my suffering to end. they showed nothing but joy by my release and that, more than anything is testament to the selflessness and beauty of their spirits. i had many concerns while i was in prison about my health. and thankfully the doctors in oman have reassured me i am physically well. as we say in arabic, thanks be to god. shane and josh don't deserve to be in prison one day longer than i do. we committed no crime, and we are not spies. we in no way intended any harm

to the iranian government or its people. and believe a huge misunderstanding led to our detention and prolonged imprisonment. shane, josh, and i had no knowledge of our proximity to the iran/iraq border when we were hiking at the waterfall, a popular tourist site frequented by local families in iraqi kurdistan. if we were indeed near the iran/iraq border, that border was entirely unmarked and indistinguishable. though my friends and i never intended or chose to go to iran, the tragedy of our imprisonment has forever marked our destinies. i never in my worst nightmare imagined i would be a prisoner. i never saw it coming. and i never knew that my family would have to suffer like this.

i also want to be clear that i do not in any way blame the i n iranian people for the pain our families and friends are suffering. i found iranians to be a diverse and generous people, defined by their fervent worship of god, their nobile islamic values. like all of us, they love their families, and they want to live in peace. at the time of our arrest, shane and i were working in the middle east and living in damascus. shane, my fiance, is a talented internal journalist. i taught english to iraqi and palestinian refugees, as well as syrian nationals. josh is an environmental teacher who arrived in syria as our

guest less than a week before our arrest. after leading a study abroad program about global health challenges. our humanitarian work in different areas is what attracted shane and josh and i to each other and laid the foundation for the strong relationship that the three of us enjoy. my hope is by learning who we are and how we came to be in this diverse and fascinating region of the world directly from my lips will help clear up any doubts and end shane and josh's detention. i intend to talk about these issues more on the days and weeks ahead because it is time to clear up the misunderstanding that led to our imprisonment. i also firmly believe that now

is the time to make the world a little safer for everyone, through peace and dialog. i believe that our tragedy is an opportunity for americans and iranians to realize that an y f improved relationship would be in the best interest for all people. my hope is that in our own small way, shane, josh, and i, as individuals, can help begin to build a bridge between our two disparate countries and cultures. i walked out of prison with my spirit bruised, but unbroken. and i am more determined than ever that shane and josh, god willing, will soon walk out the same way. my life begins the day that i go to pick them up. the day that all three of us can be reunited with our families, with the prison walls far behind

us. my work is cut out for me. and i need all the help that i can get. i asked everyone who cares about shane and josh's freedom to please stand behind us now. so that we can make this final push for their freedom together. i also ask the governments and people of the world, please help in the process of cooperation and bridge building at this crucial time. please help us create an atmosphere of good will in the world. please help us free shane and josh. thank you very much. >> do you have a message for your fiance? >> no. thank you.

>> all right. sarah shourd with all three mothers of the three hikers. who were hiking together in iraq. before being detained in iran.

there you see sarah shourd walking with the other mothers. they are holding out hope for the release of their sons, who continue to be held in iran. you heard sarah shourd describe it being one-third free until shane bauer and josh fattal are also released. she also took the opportunity to say that they, meaning shane and josh, showed nothing but joy upon her release and took the opportunity to explain while they are in new york, back in new york after making their journey -- we understand they are asking some questions there of the mothers. let's try and listen in. >> some prisoners here in the united states exchanged for the freedom of your sons? >> we are mothers. we are not politicians. and we are just very, very eager, clearly, to have our children returned to us. we are not involved with the

politics between nations. >> susan, susan -- susan candy on they from cnn. with president ahmadinejad in new york this week, are there any plans to try to meet with him or hold any kind of vigils or demonstrations outside the u.s.? >> we have asked for a meeting. requested a meeting with president ahmadinejad and we're hoping we get one. we haven't heard any news about that yet. but we're very hopeful. >> we'll both answer. we are both mothers.

that hope is undying for us. it doesn't stop. again, our focus is on the humanitarian case that it is, and we'll continue to proceed as we always have. again, a mother's hope is never going to end. it's always going to be strong. >> and we are encouraged since sarah has been released. president ahmadinejad has saidith a humanitarian effort. all of the iranian government was behind him and in support of this release, and we are encouraged perhaps the humanitarian will be renewed and encouraged and perhaps shane and josh will be home very soon. >> would y >> did either of your sons send a message to you through sarah? >> we haven't had a whole lot of time to talk to sarah, but the brief little bit of message i have heard so far is i love all

my family, and we appreciate everything you're doing along with everyone in this country all its people, and people and countries around the world. >> josh or shane in prison, are you more or less worried about the treatment of your own son? did she describe or know from the testament of prisoners that bad things happen to you? >> we have really just seen her for a very, very short time. and that was not what we spoke about. so at another time perhaps we'll address that. >> do you think the reason she's not spoken about the conditions

yet is to protect the two who are still there? >> actually, she just landed, so, you know, we don't know. we don't have the details. >> "the new york times," is this sort of on again/offagain charges against the iranian government about the charges against your son. have you heard anything new, and was sarah able to shed any light on that? >> we understand that josh, shane and sarah have all seen their lawyer. we understand that. we understand that we believe the investigation is finished. but some news reports had some open-ended comments that i am not positive.

the investigation is concluded. i am very secure that my son, josh, and his very good friend shane, will defend themselves brilliantly and all three of them are innocent hikers. >> msnbc. can you talk to us about the moment that you found out that sarah would be released but your sons would not be released? >> when i knew that sarah was definitely released, it was a very bittersweet moment for me. sweet because i love sarah very much, along with shane and josh and the rest of our families. we can't -- we couldn't wait to embrace her. very bitter -- i mean, the cold, hard truth is shane and josh are still in prison, and we want them home.

>> when i heard the news, i believe it was september 14th, i know she was -- sarah was incarcerated for 410 days, again, it was mixed -- it was a mix the blessing. i was thrilled for sarah. so happy for norah, and i was heartbroken for cindy and myself. we want our sons home. we have wonderful children, wonderful young people, and they should not be an iranian prison. they should not be in any prison. >> well, we will continue the efforts as we have for the last 14 months. what -- what our next move will be, we have to get through this. a lot of excitement right now. typically what we do as families now is we'll gather in the next day or two and sit down and make some plans, but, you know, we're going to be full steam ahead.

we'll continue this process until they are home. >> what do you think you can state to the iranian president that you haven't said already that might change his mind? if, in fact, you have the chance to meet with him? >> i think we can both answer this. but i think the humanity of -- the humanity of our plea, being face to face with human beings, talking to each other, face to face, the high regard for mother hood in iran, i think all of these things can work in our favor, and i look forward very, very much to having the opportunity if the president ahmadinejad would meet with us, i would very much look forward to that opportunity.

>> my son expressed to me where he was going. i've done a lot of investigating myself. it is a very well known tourist area. his expression was a safe place. no, i did not express any concern. i didn't have any concern. this is a tourist area. it's reported to be very safe and very promoted as a tourist area, so i did not -- i wasn't concerned in any way. >>. [ inaudible question ] >> our pleas are as mothers. we don't get mixed up in the

politics of this. i feel like the u.s. government is doing their job and we're doing ours. they are two separate jobs. >> do you have any clarification on where -- any idea about that? >> we really do not know. we are really very, very much unaware of any interactions, but what we are aware of, is many foreign governments have advocated for josh and shane and previously for sarah to be released. and so the -- the wonderful advocacy of nations all over the world has been very close to our heart and we are very, very indebted to them. [ inaudible question ]

>> i want shane home for me, home for his family and bigger than anything, i want shane home so he can continue to do the good work that he does. he's made some good, humanitarian efforts, and i want that to be continued. >> your listening to the mother of shane bauer, cindy hickey and laura fattal, the mother of josh fattal, two americaned w de ds n retained in iran. the release of sarah shourd is bittersweet because their two sons remain imprisoned in iran. we'll have more on the continued case of shane and josh in iran at the top of the hour, 4:00 eastern. join us then. i'm fredericka whitfield. back to "your money." >> they haven't moved much since the ' 0s.

and the dual-income household -- >> that's not true. if you look at compensation to workers -- if you look at compensation over the last 30 years, it's up about 30%, and spending by the average household is up about 50%. no question that the average household -- look at the things the average household has. everything from cell phones to computers to the internet. all these things, 25, 30 years ago people never had. >> they are paying out of pocket for child care, for health insurance. there is no safety net. it's an illusion. >> 30 years ago -- >> the idea -- >> we'll take a short break here and we'll be right back. the queen of ultimate goody bags, oh, who am i talking about? her latest gift requires a passport, full day on an airplane and a little bit of controversy.

a closer look at the real business of oprah with our panel. stay put. hey, lawrence, my parents want to talk to you.

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new banking rules this week announced by global officials will require banks to put aside more capital as a safety net for hard times to prevent another meltdown. the challenge is to make sure the banks are saving enough money but not so much that it prevents lending and the flow of credit. steve, this is supposed to go into effect in 2013. will this work? >> you just put your finger on the paradox. on the one hand we do want banks to be safe. no one wants to see a housing bubble where banks are making loans to people who couldn't possibly afford to repay them. on the other hand, everyone knows watching this show, homeowners and small businessmen, there's a capital crunch right now that banks aren't lending. so those are the two competing, conflicting interests here. i do think it's a sound thing to have banks have more capital. we don't want to go back to the days where we had banks like lehman brothers, bear stearns with $30 of debt for every dollar of equity.

that's a bubble that will burst. >> digging in spurs and pulling back the reins at the same time. we all watched as oprah surprised her audience with an eight-day trip to australia. what may surprise you is taxpayers down under will foot the bill. australian tourism department spent about $3 million dollars for the trip. he says it's money well spent. harpo will cover taxes any audience members incur. this is a nice vacation for americans. do you think the publicity is worth it for australia? >> no question. arguably, if you look how much money they have spent in years past, the shrimp on the barbie campaign. how much do you think that cost? $3 million to get that group of people over there and back

safely. that will be some of the best they have spent in a long time. it's very smart. >> i think crocodile dundee movie did more from them than almost anything? >> and fosters lagger. >> and that cost $14 million, not including p & a. >> exactly. you know, another story in the news this week, members of the new york jets have been accused of harassing a female reporter that entered the team's locker room recently. the incident caused the nfl to send a memo stating by law women must be granted the same rights for their jobs as men, please remember women are professionals and should be treated as such. carmen, there's no question that's the standard. hold on. let carmen jump in here. that's the standard. we should all do that. but it does seem -- i see a lot of people in the hallway saying, well, you're in a locker room with a bunch of guys wearing towels. >> your expectation as looking

as wonderful as ines did and going into the locker room where the men's point in the locker room is to get naked and change their clothes. it's absolutely wrong. of course there should be professionalism. i haven't seen a fellow latina get this much press since sonia sotomayer but unfortunately it's about her bum bum. that gets me upset. >> when you put a female reporter in a locker room, the whole point from the point of view is pejorative, the idea of putting her in harm's way. let's be clear on this, football players are awful people. they are the worst -- >> no, they are not. >> i worked with nfl rookies and rookie camp and worked with rookies -- >> i'm not talking about rookies. i'm talking about the professional football players are the worst of everything,

attitude -- >> steven, what do you think about that. >> you have to remember, i'm a comedian. i'm allowed to speak in extraordinary terms. relax a little bit. >> i'm not going to touch this one with a 10-foot pole. look, i think when you're putting a buxom beautiful woman in a room with men bouncing with testosterone. you're asking for trouble. i'm old school, carmen. i know you're going to beat me up on this, i don't think women belong in the locker room. >> oh, my gosh. but if they don't, and they do go there, they are not animals, right? they can control themselves a little bit. they can look all they want but keep your mouth shut so she can do her job and go. >> let me ask you a question, what if we ever had and we don't yet, what if we had women's sports rise truly to the level of men's sports? do you think we'd have the same thing if a male reporter was

hanging around the women's locker room changing clothes? >> no. women do talk about like this about men. >> we do. >> they are clear to make sure it happens when we're outside the room on purpose. that's part of the reason of talking about me when they are outside, it's just them talking about it. men don't do that. we think it will help us get her, which is the dumbest thing in the world. again, football a great example of the worst in men. >> carmen, let me ask you something. >> go ahead. tell me. ask me. >> let me ask you something, would you be uncomfortable going into a locker room like that? to you think you'd -- >> i think something would overrule -- >> we have human nature. >> do you think what would overrule my discomfort? looking at the fabulousness around me. i would keep my eyes closed but you better believe i'd get an eyeful. >> she would be objectifying men around her.

>> in my brain. >> we've come this far. that's lovely. >> we have whole industries built around objectifying people and we're all say we're shocked, shocked to find it happening. >> not shocked at all. >> at a safe distance, though. >> not shocked at all. she should not have been shocked either at all, really. what's your expectation? if you're going to look that way, beautiful and wonderful and walk into a locker room, you have to expect it will happen. it's not to say that it's right. but, really, we have to be real about this. none of us are surprised this happened. nobody is surprised. >> that's why we can't have women in the locker room. >> i say tough women can put up with it. >> oh, you're going to get some mail over that. >> thanks to carmen, comedian hal sparks. hal has a comedy dvd out called charmageddon. check it out. he's one of the most

controversial, outspoken directors out there. and now he's bringing back a controversial character. oliver stone talks about the return of gordon gekko and wall street. that's next. [ male announcer ] this rock has never stood still.

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before the financial crisis, there was wall street in the 1980s, where greed was considered very good, captured in this famous line from oliver stone's famous film. >> greed, for lack of a better word, is good. greed is right. greed works. >> steven, 25 years later, has

anything changed on wall street? is greed good? >> i hate to tell you, i'm a defender of greed myself. if i have a financial manager, i want that person to make as much money as possible. i think most americans do. it is true we have runaway expectations. to some extent when you look at what happens with this financial collapse, there's no question wall street just got completely carried away, making investments that made absolutely no sense for people. you have scandals like the bernie madoff scandal that decimated a lot of people's pensions and so on. there's one scene in that movie i just love. remember that scene where gordon gekko is walking down the beach and he has a cell phone in his hand. it's like a brick. see how times have changed. back in a cell phone in 1987, cost $4,000. today they cost $40. >> and having one was a big deal. >> co-author, financial serial

killers inside the world of wall street, money hustlers, swindlers and con men. same question to you. what if anything has changed since the movie came out. >> greed is still there. i think it's gotern a lot worse. back in the 19 80s greed got out of control. we had all of this insider trading, and it was bad and we flew it was bad. but things got worse as time went on. we had the 1990s, the tech bubble and tech busting and then greed really spun out of control when it affected all of us and almost brought down the entire financial system in the united states of america. and now is costing us trillions and trillions of dollars. it seems to escalate and in my case it's harming people. >> let me ask you this, "i was just half kidding when i said i'm a defender of greed, what i meant is there's nothing wrong with making money. that's what the american system is about. define greed. >> the word "greed" i take as a vice. ambition is great.

entrepreneurialism is great. the desire to improve your standard of living is good. i take greed as being an extreme and negative word. it's when the avarice gets to such a peak it causes harm and it hurts people and others. >> sit on those thoughts for a minute. the sequel to this movie that defined wall street in the '80s is about to hit theaters. it's called "wall street, money never sleeps." ali velshi sat down with oliver stone and ali asked him how his film captures the financial collapse of lehman brothers and financial fall of bear stearns. >> we have federal reserve board meetings. we have the fall of bear stearns. the idea of rumors being floated that can hurt a firm. there's three rumor montages in the film that show rumor can hurt a company.

jimmy cohen at bear stearns went to washington and he said he thought rumors might have had a very big role in the fall of bear stearns. >> when we were reporting on all of this on the financial crisis in 2008, it sometimes felt like we were in a movie. you captured a lot of that using actual track, using things that happened on tv and many of the players involved at the time. and, in fact, i'm hoping my life changes september 24th because you made me a star. i'll show viewers a little clip that had me in it from the movie. >> anyone who doesn't admit that is just kidding themselves. >> you got to look a little hard to find it, but it's there. oliver, you really reached out to a lot of people who had some involvement this, either from the financial world or from the world of financial journalism. give me your thoughts about this

melding of reality and fiction. >> well, i'd like to do that in my movies. i thought you were really a star, ali. i use mostly cnbc people because they cover this around the clock and they are very good at it. but when i saw you, i knew that bald dome would go all the way. >> you orchb in the movies have a particular view that is outside of the consensus view. in in particular case, history has seemed to have -- have verified the fiction that you put together, that there really were rumors that affected wall street. there really were bad actors on wall street in many ways. >> oh, yeah. i think the -- that's what the internet and the television coverage -- when we did the original wall street, we didn't have back-to-back business coverage have you now. everybody talking and i think sometimes too much, and they get overheated, and the business news has grown into sports or like movie news, nonstop. i'm not so sure that's good for the system, although it's more

transparent. but it does lead to circles of viciousness and rumor and hype and stock drops. look what happens a few months ago, the market crashed. what's going to happen? it does scare me and it's the nature of the modern world i suppose. >> it's the nature of the modern world. oliver stone just said, referring to nonstop media coverage. coming up, we'll ask our panel if financial reform would have prevented wall street's natural meltdown. stay with us.

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stone mentioned how business news coverage impacts wall street. do you think it's as grand as he thinks? do you think it's having an effect on all of us. >> i think there's real time more information. i think that's all positive. i

thing, people -- and i don't know -- >> that is warren buffet's job.

>> is it realistic to think we are going to understand the intrick cass so i was a can't seventh largest in america, enron, over that matter we can understand any company? no. so there has to be a degree of honesty and has to be a degree of transparency and laws an rules. >> tom that is all true, but let's not mislead investors. over the last 30 year, we have seen the biggest bull market expansion in the history of the world. you know, you go back to 1982, the dow jones was 800. today, well over 10,000, near 11,000. so there have been ups and downs there have been periods in the late '80s, obviously what we have just lived through. stocks, for the long run -- park your money in the stock market and keep it there don't be an e-trader. >> thanks to you both for being here. all gather in the old folks home 30 years from now and see how it turned out. >> the last 30 years. up next why a good number of folks applying for jobs at small businesses might, might, not

actually want the job at all. we will explain that next. we could've gone a more traditional route... ... but it wouldn't have been nearly as memorable. ♪ step away from the internet. schedule no meetings. hold all your phone calls. for the next hour, there will be no agenda. marie callender's invites you back to lunch, with a new line of fresh recipes. like chicken teriyaki with crisp water chestnuts. it steams to perfection in minutes, giving the fresh flavors and textures of a homemade meal. marie's new steamed meals. it's time to savor. marie's new steamed meals.

words alone aren't enough. our job is to listen and find ways to help workers who lost their jobs to the spill. i'm iris cross. we'll keep restoring the jobs, tourist beaches, and businesses impacted by the spill. we've paid over $400 million in claims and set up a $20 billion independently-run claims fund. i was born in new orleans. my family still lives here. i'm gonna be here until we make this right.

there has been so much talk here in washington this week about how small businesses create two out of every three jobs, the backbone of our economy, but the problem is growing a business is tough. the president of rigid paper corporation knows all about that and he spoke with cnn money's poppy harlow.

>> how hard is it to run a small business right now? >> it is not something you can take a back seat on. you always have to be involved in every aspect of the business. how much more do you have to do? >> we hear so often, nothing is made in america anymore. not true. your company makes paper tubes. >> yep, made in america. the materials are purchased in america and canada. and our workforce are local people. we have on the tunity to add more jobs locally. >> is the president's latest plan, $200 billion tax break for businesses, is that what small businesses need right now? >> we need anything we can get. i would look into additional equipment to replace the equipment that we have now. >> would that mean hiring more workers? >> it would, it would allow us to put to on a second shift.

we currently have 27 employees now. i hope to have 50 employees within the next two years. i would like to modernize our production lines. and get into a larger building. >> what do you think the government could do that it is not doing for small businesses? >> i think that as far as unemployment extensions go, they couldextensions we put. we have had a help wanted sign for six months. people come in fill out application bus ultimately end up signing their slip that they have been here they looked for a job. >> to the get unemployment benefits? >> they are telling me they are happy with the unemployment benefits they are receiving now and maybe when they end, they will consider it there has to be a point in time when somebody starts fresh, gets back into a company, starting, even if it is less than they were making before because there's plenty of upward mobile knit my company, if you are an aggressive, hard-working person there is plenty of opportunities for you.

>> so, poppy what are his chances of getting the lopes he woe need to expand his business? it is a good question. when you look at the statistics, they are not very optimistic, what we have seen is small business loans have gone down 18% since the second quarter of 2008 but for someone like michael and his family, they are not worried. they think they will be able to get a len from the local bank. they have had good conversations with the local bank. they have this major small business loan. now they are looking to see what else the government can do and if they are not going to get more from the government, they will try to get that private financing through the bank f so tom, like he said in the piece, he is going to hire probably twice as many workers as he has right now, put on that overnight shift and really try to ramp up his business. so the outlook for this small business better than for a lot. interesting to hear him say i have jobs and people don't want them. they would rather on unemployment that is not something we hear people say a lot, tom. >> fascinating stuff, poppy harlow. good luck to him i hope that goes