breathing or heart rate or your nursing pregnant or planned i'm focusing on what counts. >> talk to your doctor about reducing your risk neutrogena beach defense blocks 97% of burning uv rays for vital sun protection. >> so you can get more out of all your days in the sun for more protection, more sun more joy. neutrogena make your first move with battery power, made by steel right now, say $50 unselect battery lawn mower sets real still find yours i'm rafael roma, the georgia state capitol in atlanta. >> this is cnn welcome to.

>> cnn special coverage or former president trump's hush money criminal trial. i'm briana keeler in washington with kaitlan collins, who is outside the courtroom. house in new york. and today trump's defense has pressed michael cohen, trump's former lawyer and fixer about his history of lying under oath in an attempt to discredit him the defense is also highlighted some of the various insults that he has logged against trump over the years, painting him as a man out for revenge after their relationship fell apart. at one point, the defense play this clip from cohen's podcast in october of 20 he 20. here it is truly hope that this man, ends up in prison. >> it won't bring back the year that i lost or the damage done to my family but revenge is a dish best served cold and you better believe i want this made to go down and rotten side for what he did to me and my family it only got crazier from

there with cohen's credibility clearly on the line, when trump's defense attorney here, todd blanche, is trying to do is repeatedly using the word lie in his questioning is often as possible forcing michael cohen to recall lies that he is told to congress, the fbi in other branches of government with me now is the chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, and seeing a national correspondent, kristen holmes. >> paula, it's getting weird in there because right before i mean, there's no other way private, but what is happening right? right. well, it's been weird, but what was happening right before they just took the break for lunch is michael cohen testified that he had this call in october 2016 with keith schiller. he said he was calling to get to trump to pass on a message about the payment to stormy daniels todd blanche is trying to draw blood right now and say actually, in that 92nd phone call, you were complaining to trump's body man about getting harassing phone calls from a 14-year-old prank caller? yes. and the reason

they're able to to draw this out is because they have logs and records that show cohen had texted keith schiller about this 14-year-old primer and said, who do i talk to about getting the secret service to help me with this? now, cohen had also threatened this 14-year-old the threatened him that he was going to stick the secret service on hand. so you have this timeline that really raises questions about whether this next conversation with keith schiller and allegedly the president would have been about the prankery that you were just threatening and following up with case shiller about how you can retaliate against the prank or if it would have been about stormy daniels. and this testimony that cohen had previously given was significant for the prosecution because it shows that trump was aware of what was happening with a hush-money payment. and if you undercut the credibility of that conversation is not game over for the process fusion, but it's definitely a blow to their key witness. and one of the most important pieces of testimony that he gave to

support the idea that trump was behind this entire conspiracy. >> well, and to be clear, what we found out this person was 14, i guess they're there of age now because michael cohen had said he was going to put the secret service on this and the person said, i'm 14, please don't a great moment for michael cohen. i mean, we were talking about the embarrassing thing that todd blanche has tried to bring out conversations with his daughter where he's trying to explain how he didn't get a job at the white house. his own daughter telling him donald trump and all of his people are walking all over you right now. michael cohen agree. >> but threatening of 14 with secret service action seems to be one of the more embarrassing moments, but i think particularly this is critical other than being impressing because part of this has been what we've seen todd blanche doing, which is essentially lining up all up until this moment that michael cohen is somebody who would lie to get what he wanted out of this they've said that what michael cohen wants, is for donald trump to go to jail. >> now they are trying to

question what he actually said on the stand, but it doesn't what happens if order doesn't undermine that? he was being paid for legal services, that he didn't render that it wasn't actually a retainer agreement when he was submitting these false invoices to allen weisselberg, but what my goal what type lines to try to do to michael cohen is to embarrass him and humiliate again and have the jury not trust him. >> yeah. >> one juror was just released. all they need is one. >> right. with reasonable doubt. and this particular piece of evidence that he offered under direct was support. the idea that trump was well aware of this alleged conspiracy to cover up a hush money payment to stormy daniels in the days ahead of the election. but a jurors don't believe that cohen actually had this conversation with him in late october 2016? that does hurt the prosecution's case because they need each one of these little building blocks. it's all they have largely right. is it? testimony of michael cohen to support the idea that trump was creating are causing all of these documents to be falsified to

cover up the hush money. it's pretty well established that this was all done to help trump win the white house. we have multiple witnesses. who can speak to that. but michael cohen i wanted is really the only one who can speak to trump's role, direct role in the conspiracy. if you start to chip away at what he said on direct, this this is a huge problem for prosecutors, but it also so just raises the question where is keith schiller? i mean, keith schiller is the other person who has come up. so much at this trial every single day, and he's not witness. he's not expected to a as a witness, but he's not expected to be when acerbi called to testify being there, these key pieces, allen weisselberg, i understand has pleaded guilty to perjury great. and he's in prison right now at rikers. keith schiller is not he's not but he is someone who is still considered a trump loyalist. he left the white house on very good terms with the former president he just wanted to get out of the world. i remember reporting at the time that he just didn't want to be in politics. and in this line of work. >> but he's still considered an ally of the former

president. >> so now we have two situations that we have seen that have been outlined in which there are three the people who could potentially cooperate. a story, donald trump, michael cohen, and the third party, and neither of these situations, the third party is being called. >> and cnn's kara scannell is outside the white house or outside the courthouse. and kara, you've just been in there watching. is this cross-examination? of michael cohen was happening, especially that key moment at the end, tell us what you saw caitlin. >> i mean, it started out as a kohn back and forth where he was channeling punching michael cohen with all of these paths, misstatements are lies as trump's lawyers were calling out michael cohen on several of them. and then it just crescendoed at the end with trump's lawyer focusing in on a phone call that michael cohen said he had with donald trump in october of 2016. this was right around the decision to michael cohen made to pay stormy daniels $130,000. and so trump's attorney, going back-and-forth with him about this call and the timestamp babette at 8:02 p. will also show cohen that he was having

text messages with donald trump's security officer, keith schiller, and that is who michael cohen testified. just the other day that he had connected through schiller to speak with trump's. so what todd blanche trump's lawyer did was show him that cohen was exchanging a lot of messages with keith schiller about a harassing phone calls he had been getting saying that now he knew who it was. it was 14 year-old, nashville or what he should do at ido to shiller said call me. is that point that cohen has that phone call according to the call logs with keith filler. now, cohen has testified that it was then that he talked to donald trump updated him on stormy daniel's and said that it was going to be resolved. so todd blanche saying in the one-minute 36 second phone call that these call records show that is when you say that you talk to keith schiller and also spoke with donald trump at this moment todd blanche it she is now pacing in the courtroom flailing his arms up, his raised his voice into high pitch, and cohen was maintaining then that he said that he was able to speak with him so trump because he said he ran everything past trump. and

this will time cohen has not broken his composure. he has still been answering all of these questions and answering that question. wow. maintaining an even tone, but certainly the most dynamic moment of this cross-examination, because todd blanche also asking cohen, if you only remember this phone call when you were refresh your recollection was for flushed by documents from the prosecutor's. does that mean you didn't remember any of these phone calls that you had in 2016, so they're really trying to hone in here on cohen's recollection of calls with donald trump, and that is because michael code is the only person that links donald trump directly to the hush money payments decision to make those payments, and the reimbursement. and that is the part of this case that prosecutors say what's the crime, the false of the records. so it sounds like there are still getting started. we're at the break here. the trump's attorneys, did they do expect to go the full day. and so this session of cyber from that last moment, otherwise they spent it really trying to point out different leinz that michael cohen is given in the past, admitting

that he lied under oath two, a federal judge, among other things. so really again, this theme of trying to undercut his credibility and suggest to the jury that they shouldn't believe cohen's testimony. >> caitlin yeah. qarrah, great reporting from inside hi, that courtroom watching all of this, briana a notable moment for michael cohen is they just let the jury to marinate over this during this lunch break before he returns. so the stan yeah. no, it certainly is caitlin. we're here with our panel now to talk more about this, let's take a little bit of stock of this moment where we are right now, elliott, where are we today in cross-examination and big picture, i am having trouble seeing where the defense's really scored huge points today. >> now i understand they've had i think a better day than they have in the past, but just step back. much of what the defense has gotten out today, the prosecution sort of laid the groundwork for michael cohen lies a lot and lied a lot

michael cohen has prior convictions and michael cohen has a bias against the former president, like those things were all pretty well-establishe d and laid out. i think the most effective moment today, by far was playing the sound of michael cohen this podcast for the jury. they hadn't heard him sounding incredibly shrill and incredibly pointed about the former president in a way that this measured witness on stage who's done quite a good job, sort of keeping his cool. i think they haven't heard or seen that and far more than the particulars of any one lie he's told i think that was the moment that people thought, wait, wait a second. who is this guy that we've been hearing all this stuff about? >> how are we in the middle of talking about this 14-year-old business? elie, and how problematic is that for the prosecution? in this matters a lot, don't don't be distracted by the funny fact that michael cohen is getting into a war of texts with a 14-year-old, which is funny. >> but here's why it's really relevant part of this cross-examination was completely expected, as elliott said, we knew michael cohen has a long history of lying. he's

having trouble embracing some of it didn't sort of denying that he's lying about some of the things he obviously lied about. we know he's a liar. we know he's been convicted of crimes. we know he hates donald trump. the story with the 14-year-old is so important because it goes to the heart of the allegations in this case here's how on direct testimony, michael cohen said crucial piece of testimony in october, i think it's the october 24 of 2016. i had one of the key phone conversations in this whole case. i call keith schiller. he patched me through to trump or he put me on speaker cone, doesn't remember. and i told them stormy has been paid matter result. that's goes to the heart of the case well, now we're finding out on exam that day actually what cohen was texting schiller about all day leading up to that call, was this 14-year-old is her asking me sit the secret service on him and so blanche said, well, that was actually what you called keith schiller about not this stormy daniels thing. cohen then retreated to while i talked about both actually, the 14-year-old harassing me and stormy, daniel's the problem is michael cohen did not tell

the grand jury that this phone call in october 2016 was about stormy daniels. so there are major questions about a core aspect of michael cohen's testimony that goes right to the heart of this case and the whole call it something like 80 to seven, 30 so in that time, it's completely plausible that yes, he raised hell about this 14-year-old or that he talked about stormy daniel's, but it just defies logic that he had both of these major conversations with with the white house are with keith schiller at that 0.14 year-old demand needs a little explanation to it. >> how many seconds? the next one now wouldn't it if you calling someone to say just say matter unresolved, that's a short conversation. yeah. exactly. i think the stormy daniel's part of that could be real short, but to explain that you're being harassed by a 14-year-old and you want this secret service to get after this kid and what that takes doesn't that take a little bit more time and energy and effort fact that cohen didn't say in

his grand jury testimony that the reason we had this call with stormy daniel's that's really a problem. >> all of this to say, all of these explanations are perfectly plausible that they had to conversations, that they had one conversation about stormy are one about 14 in year-old anyone could work. the problem is that it's all placing these little seeds of doubt in the jury about the witnesses credibility, just in terms of the story that is being told and what is believable. i mean, what is your impression of these details? >> well, you asked for a step back and i do think that it's interesting to hear you guys kind of talk about each one of these discrete anecdotes, which in the end is kind of a death by 1,000 cuts in terms of his credibility. and how people speak, how they sound. this is why the podcast is meaningful, right? that the jury these are it's one thing to have heard about michael cohen. all of those weeks. it's another thing to now be there and be confronted with the full force of his for sauna. the only

other thing i would add is that we're only in this place because correct me if i'm wrong, there was not a piece of paper from the prosecution are some piece of evidence that said cover this up. my thanks. yeah. love with the heart djt like that, didn't happen. so they really are left with his word, which is it's why we can be showered with all of the ways his word is not exactly gospel. >> well, i think the question for the jury is or this would if i were sitting on the jury i'm my question would be, is it can we believe that michael cohen is having a courtroom conversion here? >> that he has for some reason turn from somebody who lied all the time every day, in every way to somebody who is now a truth teller and can people change like that? and is the motivation to change because he wants to see donald trump

behind bars, obviously, but this kind of a conversion from one character into well another it's difficult to get too. i think here's my question does he need to have a conversion? because if you look at the totality of some of this testimony here over the last few days, it has been established that i think i think it clear it has been you correct me if i'm wrong here has been clearly enough establish that donald trump was aware of the pattern when it came to the karen mcdougal case? michael cohen establishing an llc to take care of this with some kind of payment. where the money came from. obviously maybe a little bit different. but this idea of coming up with a company making the payment, donald trump knows that's how it's done. that's how it was done with karen mcdougal even if he hasn't had a conversion, is it so hard to believe that will of course, that's how it was done again, here and that donald trump would understand that this will

be the prosecution argument. closing for sure. >> what i think the evidence is showing is definitely knew they were being paid mcdougal and stormy. >> it's less clear to me that it's less clear, i think in the evidence that donald trump understood the accounting mechanisms they use of the shell corporations, the structuring of the payments as retainers and all that or was involved, right? or above, right? yeah. >> but you're exactly right. i mean, what the prosecution is going to say is forget about all the ancillary stuff this is about the accounting mind. these payments, we have documents, we have handwritten notes, we have checked, signed by trump you don't need to trust michael cohen in a vacuum. you need to trust michael cohen when put up against the supporting evidence that he's under oath here and the information that he has put before this is what the prosecution would say. the information that he has put before you under oath in this proceeding is remarkably consistent. with the documentary and other testimonial evidence. now, we have brought to your attention all of this baggage she has in the defense sort of picked on it, but a story straight. so

ladies and gentlemen, you can and frankly, ought to reach a conviction here based on what presented in defense just never get to the point that donald trump says none of this ever happened. well, do you just not pay attention to that part of it? >> he's not going to take the stand i mean, that what he has said over and over again this never happened. >> it's kinda what they're doing right now. they're saying that october 2016 phone call where cohen said, i told trump, right. it's don i paid her. they are arguing that never happened. and what i'll pause it to the group here what if the jury says i'm not so sure that phone call happened the way michael cohen told us that's a big problem. >> let's hold that for our next discussion here we have so much more ahead to talk about, but also ahead, anderson cooper has been in the courtroom all morning long. it's going to join us next to talk about what he observed. >> stay with us for that the russians were trying to spy on us we were spying on them i was frightened this is a war, but

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protection, more sun, more joy neutrogena i'm arlette saenz at the white house. and this is cnn and we're back now with our breaking news coverage of former president trump's hush money criminal trial court in a lunch break. now, anderson cooper with us. anderson, how was court you were there all morning? >> i got to say there was a lot of boring moments early on. there was a lot of kind of meandering cross-examination or seemingly meandering cross-examination by todd blanche, but the last 20 minutes of court today right before the lunch break, it was incredible. i mean, it was elie honig on my program last night had talked about on cross-examination lawyers want to kind of put the witness and build a box around the witness and then slamming shut that's what todd blanche did to michael cohen. i mean, the story the todd blanche just

methodically went through the sequence of events of this this phone conversation that alleged that michael cohen had testified to previously that he had had this consequential phone conversation with donald trump, who was a 92nd phone conversation. i believe it was october 24th with the date with testified to in around eight 8:00 p.m. or so at night but todd blanche on his cross-examination today when kind of looked at the transcripts of texas mixed messages that michael cohen had received and sent before that time frame and there had been this series, i guess a crank calls that michael cohen had received. it turned out to be from some 14 year-old. there was an exchange of messages between the alleged 14-year-old and michael cohen. and then michael cohen text keith schiller, like seven 50 something are 7:48 p.m. saying,

hey i've got some dope has been harassing me. i got the person's phone number or who can i talk? okay. to keith schiller texting back, saying call me and michael cohen calls keith schiller. this is the conversation that previously michael cohen had said he was calling speak to donald trump to tell him that the storm he was going ahead with the stormy daniel arrangement and the trump approved it, which was a a crucial crucial michael cohen's whole raison d'etre for being on the stand. he's the only person testifying to involvement by direct involvement by donald trump in the stormy daniels payment but according to suddenly now, michael cohen's refresh memory, he now says, oh, it was a call about this 14 year-old making prank phone calls to me, but also about the moving ahead on stormy daniels, todd blanche was incredulous. his voice cracking, his voice please, for raising up, moving around the courtroom speaking saying

saying that what the jury doesn't want to hear for him guessing, it wants to hear fax. it was an extraordinary cross-examination by todd blanche and michael cohen's throughout the day, michael cohen, when cornered in gwen, he found himself in a corner he does have a pattern of suddenly not understanding the question being asked are seemingly kind of, i mean, one could say buying time to try to figure out what, how he wants to answer. but he definitely suddenly starts to have todd blanche repeat questions since i don't quite understand what you mean, i'm confused by the question but this time, michael cohen was cornered in what appeared here to be a lie, i think to many in the room. and had to adjust suddenly his memory that he adjust testified to on tuesday elie i mean, you pointed out just right before

the commercial break, if jurors don't believe michael cohen, how significance my be he was i mean, it is hard to i wonder how prosecutors are going to redirect on this because todd blanche also pointed out i got michael cohen to admit that he had not seen these text messages in the prep by prosecutors, so he had apparently had no memory of those text messages and the implication is that he concocted did you know he was shown that there was a phone call to keith schiller at this time by prosecutors and the prep and the implications, certainly by todd blanche, is that he concocted this story of what that 92nd phone call was not realizing that there were text messages right ahead that directly related and right after for the directly related. >> so anderson, obviously, this resonated with you as a courtroom observer, did you happen to see anything in the jury box we able to pick up on any reaction from the jurors i

mean these jurors are not as if people a lot of people have said, and i've seen before, they are, they, are, they do not show reaction but you could tell the important import of the moment and everybody in the courtroom can tell if you were unaware of it, the clicking of every reporter in the rooms, typewriters it was like okay crescendo because the drama of the moment was so clear to everybody in the room. but the jurors showed nothing on their faces, but they were they were watching incredible plea intently. >> and todd blanche essentially stopped the cross-examination when said to the judge, you know, this maybe this is a good time for lunch break and the judge agreed in this is what the jurors are going to think to lunch. >> i was talking to norm eisen on the way out from court, who was saying todd blanche should try to keep the cross-examinati on going all the way till through the afternoon, not allowing the the prosecution to redirect. so that for the next

three days, jurors are just have michael cohen's tested it testimony to mole over. >> yeah, that's a common tactic. anderson, let me ask you if if i can put you in the jury box, having just witnessed that piece of cross-examination , do you have doubts that that conversation happened the way michael cohen testified? on his direct examination that trump and i think it's absolutely absolutely. i think it's devastating i mean, for michael cohen's credibility on this. i mean, this one taylor topic, whether it's you know, he just didn't i mean, it's hard to i don't know. yes. i think if i was a juror in this case, is watching that, i would think this guy's making this up as he's going along or he's making this particular story up todd blanche is pointing out you were testifying just on tuesday in this court in all morning long, he's been pointing out inconsistencies in michael cohen's testimony are at least questionable aspect

next, i'm michael cohen's testimony, but nothing that you would necessarily as a juror think. okay. that's clearly a lie. maybe that's just missed he was misunderstanding ending or he was bragging or whatever. >> this one, todd blanche clearly saved this to right before the lunch break. >> i'm assuming because it was just so well-crafted and just point by point walking through this story, which at first seemed, you know, why, why this seems like a ridiculous stories some 14-year-old is sending him nasty and text messages and he's going to call it keith schiller about it. and then you realize, you look he showed the phone logs that the prosecutor it had shown and it's the phone call that michael cohen had previously talked about. i think it is severely damaging to michael cohen's testimony, and i know kara scannell it's worth as well at macquarie, you are there. >> what did you think? >> we were sitting? i was sitting opposite aisles. haven't been and i'll talk to you, but i found it just so exciting. it was whatever

whoever we're you believe, whatever sayyed, it would just a remarkable moment in court it truly was because it was really just kinda this building crescendo with more of that more mundane questioning of china's see if cohen did lie about multiple things, including whether he wanted a part in or whether he was accepting responsibility for it guilty plea, but then it built to that moment where todd blanche methodically went through the phone calls, the text messages, and as you were saying, kind of putting michael cohen in the box and then shut the lid because it was in blanche added to it by being himself more theatrical about it. >> he's pacing, he's rubbing his head, he's swelling his arms. his voice is rising as he is being incredulous, saying that cohen, are you do really expect me to believe that in that one minute, 36 second phone call? you talk to keith schiller about the harassing text messages and phone calls, and also to donald trump about stormy daniel's where you told him it was resolved. so really

just i'm trying to undercut all of cohen's credibility in that moment and cohen, while he maintained his composure, he certainly didn't look like he had a lot of confidence in his answers there. we didn't even began even more slowly by saying that asking cohen, did you even talk about this phone call when he met with prosecutors? and cohen couldn't remember if he did. he was trying to refresh his recollection. did it say that he did so that was casting doubt and then he just built and built and built by showing those text messages showing the call logs, and then at the end where he left the jury with it after that big moment, then said i don't want what you think he remember the jury needs to know what you know and what you definitely remember. and then he left it hanging in the air of did was this true for all of the phone calls that cohen recalled in 2016 because that gets to the broader questions of his credibility and whether the jury she should maybe just doubt this one phone call or doubt all of cohen's

recollections of the phone calls that he had with donald trump, including some of these ones at the end and click looting his testimony about the oval office meeting the trump tower meeting, where trump allegedly approved and signed off on the reimbursement scheme that's at the heart of this case. >> we're all care would also just seem to street beggar belief is that there's this consequential phone call that michael cohen when to make to donald trump about this critical moment, i gotta check in with trump immediately and let them know. i'm going ahead with the stormy daniels payments. i don't want to get sign off from him but he's instead the preamble to making that call is this exchange with this 14-year-old kid and telling him, i need to talk to your parents and the secret service is going to get involved. >> so if michael cohen has an his head. oh, i got to talk to the boss about stormy daniels. it only seems odd that he's spending all this time before that phone call conversing with a 14-year-old crying color, and

then bothering to text keith schiller, not about, hey, where's the boss i got to talk to the boss, but there's a because 14 year-old has been harassing me. what can i do? >> and keith schiller says, call me and he calls and then we first thing in the morning, michael cohen follows up with keith schiller color you know about about the 14-year-old and the call so the idea that he started off the conversation with keith schiller we're talking about this 14-year-old and then it was like, oh, yeah, hey, can i talk to the boss? >> i got to tell him this control thing about stormy daniels in seconds seems hard to imagine. >> and there's no mention in these text messages between cohen and shiller of is donald trump there i need to talk to the boss if they are very focused on this forum 13 year-old who has been texting him saying that he's on earth, the number and the shell. you do who do i need to talk to to make this stopping? shiller says call me and then that is when michael cohen calls sam,

and then as he pointed out, that the very next exchanges, the next state are still focused on the 14-year-old. so there's no indication at all in this contemporaneous real-time documents that he was at all interested in talking to the boss. it's very much focused on these phone calls it was interesting after the lunch recess so it's called i looked over to the cast of characters who are from washington, who were in attendance today. >> and a lot of them were a number of them are sort of smirking, clearly feeling like this had been a good day for certainly for donald trump. and for his attorney bernie moving into this lunch break. again, there's going to be much more testimony coming up after the break. we're going to take a short break, really just a remark while close of this session on core will have much more of her coverage of the historic trial donald trump get the reaction from a judge who was in the courtroom today as well. that's after a quick break stanley cup playoffs

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anderson was? it sounds like it was quite a dramatic moment and could be pivotal. was it to you? >> absolutely. we're talking about a one minute and 32 second phone call the people put it in evidence on monday through michael cohen alluding to a conversation that he had october 24 at approximately 8:02 p.m. with keith schiller. it was who is trump's body man and would often be next to him and take his phone calls it was originally presented as the phone call where my go cohen got the approval from donald trump to go ahead with the hush money scheme and basically use his own funds to get the hush money stormy daniels. that timeline on its face work perfectly because the next day the people presented evidence that on october 25th, that cohen was connecting with allen weisselberg and laying it all out. and then october 26 there

he is in his bank transferring 130,000 from his he lock and wiring it to stormy he daniels. now, what came out of the blue today? this just started happening right before the lunch break. at first, i didn't know with with todd blanche was going with this. he's talking to michael cohen about harassing phone calls, 14 year-old boy and michael cohen says, well, you didn't like blocking in number. i'm going to report you to the secret service the next string has a phone record of michael cohen reaching out to keith schiller and approximately seven p.m. that leads to a voicemail at a11 pm between michael cohen and keith schiller. >> and then 802 pm phone call with michael cohen and keith schiller hello which apparently in large part had to do with michael cohen following up with teeth. >> keith schiller, based upon

previous 7:48 p.m. texts to keach schiller about this call and wanting wanting some action taken now, cohen appeared totally caught, totally flat-footed by this flat-footed. but you can't hide from the documentary evidence. and i emphasize this is documentary evidence put in by the pupil so now cohen is trying to get the jury to believe that he could have done both things at the same time in a matter of one minute and 32 seconds discuss the harassing phone calls although they wanted keith schiller to attend ten and possibly report to the secret service and brief donald trump on the decision to get the 130 thousand dollars to stormy daniels and get the approval right now from what i've seen, his testimony strains credibility on a very crucial piece of evidence. tying donald trump directly to the hush money pay off. and then beyond that if somehow

cohen doesn't come back in the afternoon and give them more positive simple explanation, or get ria rehabilitated in some way on redirect. the obvious thought processes. what else is he not being forthright about? so i guess it's a big moment and yeah, i want to i want to ask you because the obviously the two other people who were pretty or may have been privy to that phone call. now that there's a question about it, would be keith schiller and donald trump what, about hearing from keith schiller? you know, what was the breakdown of how much how long you talk to donald trump and did he talk or help pardon me? what was the breakdown of how long keith schiller talk to michael cohen and did michael cohen? talk to donald trump? did you hand the phone over to trump well, that's what they're trying to testify to. >> the problem that that's a michael cohen appears to be trying to testify to their fault. things could have happened at the same time. i

imagine that's where the de is going to go but how much? can you do on such a way the matter in one minute and 32 seconds? it's possible it's not impossible. but what's obvious? is that michael cohen was at least to me michael cohen was caught flat-footed by this. so apparently by that it appears that the da never even let's discuss this with him until now. i thought the de was presenting a masterful strategy. i had spoken previously is about 95% of the tastes have been corroborated. they put so many exhibits in evidence, so they could enhance the credibility of michael cohen wise, so many other credibility issues on this one this particular exhibit, people's exhibit 3401, appears to be an exploding cigars wow. so there's no rehabbing this in your mind in any way that might convince a jury. do you

think it just too much, han, how would you do that? >> i'm not gonna say no way. i'm not saying that. i'm just saying this is what we left the courtroom for the ones let's break at 1:00 p.m. that's where we were. michael cohen has a lot of work to do. he's still on cross-examination. i'm sure they're going to keep swinging on this we'll see can we pulled it together and then again, the district attorney has redirect. i imagined they may be working a little late tonight and the da's office to figure throughout how they might handle this one on redirect, but they've got this shack. we'll see. i'm not saying no way, but i am saying in my mind. this so as a big, big moment for the defense case. >> yeah, the prosecution clearly has their work cut out for them after this, judge always great to get your insights as you were there in the court rheaume been some eyes and ears for us. thank you so much thank you.

>> great talking to you has always briana. >> great talking to you, sir. there are moments away from court resuming here in this hush money trial stay with cnn special coverage so i didn't think i needed swiffer and i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it it only takes a minute. look at that the heavy-duty flops are extra thick, four amazing trapping long even for his hair wow, and for dusk, i love my heavy-duty duster, the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact up high and all around without having to lift a i. >> so hooked. you'll love swiffer or your money back and the furniture business, things

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filter.com. >> as easy as 123 by more than liebermann at the pentagon. and this cnn and we're back now with our special coverage of former president trump's hush money criminal trial court is scheduled to resume here in a matter of minutes but before the court broke for lunch, we saw what was potentially a critical moment play out in court. we are getting reports from our folks who are there inside the courtroom and number of them all saying the same

thing that this was really a moment to behold trump's attorneys were able to raise serious doubts about a roughly 90 phone call that is at the heart of this case. this is the one in which michael cohen claims donald trump approved the hush money payment to stormy daniel's. i'm joined now by our panel of experts. okay. >> 90 seconds to approve the payment, but it turned out there are a number of text messages proceeding. it that had to do with this 14-year-old prank caller who is harassing michael cohen. and that was something that cohen also addressed with keith schiller the right-hand man there have donald trump who cohen had called. why is this so problematic? elie okay. >> michael cohen's testimony was this was the moment when i filled in donald trump, 802 pm, october 24, 2016. i call keith schiller, who would handle the phone for trump i told them stormy has been paid matter resolved. no mention of this 14-year-old texts harasser turns out all of the texts

between michael cohen and keith schiller leading up to that edo to call had to do with there's this 14-year-old who's bugging me. what should i do? shiller says? >> call me. so the defense argument is michael cohen has just made up the fact that this was actually about stormy daniels, what it was about, as you can see from the text at the time, was really this 14-year-old text harasser. now what cohen then retreated back to us. we'll actually we discuss both things and we can have a debate about whether it's possible to layout both of those things in 92 seconds or not. i can sort of see that either way it seems tough, but it's doable. >> but the problem is michael cohen didn't say anything about this call being the call when we talked about stormy daniel's when he was in the grand jury, he never said that before. >> and so now the grand jury's thinking, i don't know whether that call had anything to do with stormy read daniel, that might be something maybe that michael cohen just made up for purposes of this trial. >> and the point is this came out in cross as the defense is asking michael cohen questions it should have come out in direct examination if the

prosecutors had figured it out, why then do you believe then that the prosecution miss this? they didn't look at the texts leading up to the phone call. >> i think it's an entirely plausible explanation that the prosecutor is just missing because we are talking about this a little bit in the break. they could have. we've been talking a lot in this trial about how as a prosecutor, you chum the water of sorts with the bad things about the defendant. you put them out there on the record. so so that they're not as bad when they come out from the defense. this is a textbook example of something that the jury was not prepared to hear that came out for the first time out of the mouth of the defendant. now, if the prosecutors had simply asked the question, hey, what do you remember on that phone call? and he'd said, well, i think we talked about both stormy daniel's and this punk 14 year-old that was harassing me maybe implausible, but at least the jury would have been primed to to hear about this information. now, it really appears like a bit of a perry mason gotcha moment. that'll be hard for the for the

prosecution. come back from now, we'll try and they're going to have another crack at him perhaps today, perhaps monday, and they'll try to clean it up saying we don't you remember both. but it's not good for the credibility like a genuine moment of surprise, right? in a case that's been marked by everyone's been using this phrase documentary evidence, but that also just means a long monotony like hours of testimony that ben about bookkeeping that have been about phone records that have been about office visits. and it has come off as though the prosecution is very detail oriented and trying to build up what could be the links between cohen and the former president. and then all of a sudden in the middle of testimony that seems like what we've been hearing. oh, this person called this one. this person it's been called that one. >> it kind of explodes and people know, people feel that tonal change or just say no, the remarkable consistency from every single person who was in the room who is now a porch, including anderson cooper who tends not to be that level of

voc here on fireball fire. >> but but, but every single person who has said i was in the room said, my goodness, this was the moment. a moment in the trial of the first real shock and sort of exploring if there's a perry mason moment, which this maybe was how do you come back from it? and obviously it well, it doesn't seem to me that todd blanche will go back to it. i think he's i think he's done his work. he doesn't need to gild the lily and go back to it anymore. >> but clearly, the prosecution has to figure out a way to go back at this and to make it sound like a completely plausible story about which michael cohen was not lying and how do they, how do they do that? >> okay? >> really important trial points. one, if you get a great piece of testimony, let it be, you don't don't go back and do a lot like you said right? i think the best prosecutors can

do is where michael cohen wound up, which is mr. color in that call. did you discuss both things, the 14-year-old harasser and stormy daniels? yes, they'll say, are you sure who say absolutely. i remember it was both things, but again, why didn't you say to the grand jury why don't you say it on direct? it's i agree with judge grosso, george gaza, who was just not it's not over. prosecutors have come back from worse setbacks than this let's see though they got to tough one. now, we're over just so get out of their asieh one or two questions and they can return to it in their closing statement, which i will remind you will been a week and a half or two weeks from now the jury will remember it, but it's not gonna be frehse in their minds like it is today in the closing, say, okay, you heard this, but here's what really happened and look at all of the other documents and the allen weisselberg handwriting and the checks, and just hope that the jury want to know where keith schiller is and why not here from keith schiller for next hour? >> yeah. >> it's not stay with me for more on that. court resuming just minutes from now, we're here probably about 15 or so

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special live coverage of former president trump's hush money criminal trial. >> i'm briana killer in washington and any moment now, the prosecution's star witness, michael cohen, returns to the stand. the defense has been aggressively grilling trump's former fixer, hand hammering him about all the times that he has lied under oath. the defense also focusing on michael cohen's motivations to testify against his former boss attempting to paint him as a disgruntled former employee, angry about not getting a job in the trump white house. let's turn now to cnn, senior legal analyst, elie honig, and also led this call with keith schiller, where michael cohen said that he spoke to donald trump. it's supposed to be a key phone call, and now it is very much in question. take us through what happened today. yeah. briana, a remarkable moment just played out in court. let's try to walk through exactly why this matters so much. now, michael cohen testified on his direct exam when being quiet questioned by prosecutors, that he had a crucial phone call on october 24, 2016, about two

weeks before the election with donald trump. he said he called keith schiller cell phone, who put him through or put them on speaker. he said he didn't remember, but he was talking to both trump and schiller and cohen testified this was the call where he told them crucial information about the payments to stormy daniels let's look back at michael cohen's actual testimony. who has asked what was the purpose for this october 24 call? and michael cohen said to discuss the stormy daniels matter and the resolution of it that goes to really the heart of this case. and then the de as and did you have an understanding about whether during that conversation you resolve that meaning the stormy day? daniels matter, you were moving forward to fund the deal, meaning the payments to stormy daniel's michael cohen answered yes. okay. crucial piece of the prosecution's case. what happened just now though, is the defense lawyer walked michael cohen through the text records in the phone records to create a really important timeline. todd blanche showed michael cohen that throughout that de, leading so the call october 24 cohen was texting keith schiller about something

completely different. michael cohen had been getting harassed by texts from a 14-year-old. cohen was upset. he threatened to get the secret service involved at 7:48 p.m. about 14 minutes before the call, cohen text keith schiller, again about this teenager who was pranking him at 8:00 to shiller tells cohen, call me, and then they have this call which is only 96 seconds long. we're cohen says i told him all about stormy daniels and then right after the call, cohen sent schiller the number of the 14-year-old and so the defense argument is this call was not about stormy daniel's. it was about the 14-year-old. just look at this. well, michael cohen found himself in a bit of a box at that point. what was it about and michael cohen said, well, actually both he testified part of it was the 14-year-old, but i know that keith was with mr. trump at the time and there was more potentially than this. the problem is michael cohen said nothing about the 14 during there's direct testimony nor did he say so during his grand jury testimony. so prosecutors tutors are going to have to go back and come back from this really important moment. a

couple of other highlights from this morning. michael cohen was grilled about his motivations. there was prior testimony from keith davidson, prosecution witness that michael cohen was devastated when trump became president. cohen thought he would become attorney general, according to keith davidson, maybe get an official position in the white house. he got no such thing. did get to go visit and trump and get a ceremonial photograph. but the argument prosecutors made is you bitter, you were angry. cohen denied that, but other witnesses have said that that was the case. we also heard more from the michael cohen litany of insults thrown it. donald trump, hope he ends up in prison and the rest that we've become familiar with, i want this man to go down and rotten sayyed, another sort of juvenile insults finally, prosecutors tried to explain to the jury that when michael cohen lies, he has for reason, excuse me, defense lawyers chi to explain that. todd blanche asked you also answered a question. do you recall that the reason why eu-wide referring to one of the times, michael cohen leinz to congress was because the stakes affected you personally. and cohen said, yes. and then the defense lawyer followed that up by saying does the outcome of

this trial affect you personally? cohen answered yes. so briana, the argument that the defense team is making is that michael cohen lives when it furthers his interests, his interests here are in a conviction for donald trump's, so they attack the core of his testimony. they attacked his credibility, the credit the cross-examination will continue in a few minutes when we come back from lunch, prosecutors have some work to do now. >> yeah. no doubt. this is a wound. they will have to tend to elie. thank you for that. i want to go to cnn's kristen holmes and paula reid outside of the courthouse kristen, i suspect the former president trump has very much enjoyed his lunch before court resumes briana, i would assume that as well. >> just remember that this is exactly what donald trump wanted from todd blanche, a botched that cross-examination yesterday or two days ago and we are told that he was complimentary of it, that he was happy with what todd blanche did, but this is really ultimately what he was hoping that he would do. one cachin in ally and to try to get

underneath michael cohen skin and up until that exchange before lunch, it wasn't really clear whether or not he was doing that. now, of course, there's the larger picture here, which is that the entire case hinges on michael cohen and whether or not the jury believes him since he is the only link. but there is also the idea that todd blanche has to appeal to his client and his client is the demanding person and one of the things, you know that trump wanted was a very aggressive cross-examination. now, while todd blanche really wasn't all that aggressive until the end there right before lunch. this is exactly the end game that donald trump was looking for in this kind of cross-examination? >> yeah, certainly. >> how significant paula is this? >> 92nd phone call to the prosecution's entire case this is the most significant punch they have landed so far, because cohen's direct testimony that he had this conversation where he was keeping trump in the loop on this hush money payment.

>> this was a really significant piece of evidence for the prosecution to support the idea that trump understood what was going on in this alleged conspiracy throughout all the way back to october 2016. so now the defense suggesting that this call may not have been about the hush money and it's said might've been about a 14-year-old prank. well, that's certainly going to get the jury's attention pretty much the best thing the prosecutors can do is try to rehabilitate cohen by arguing that perhaps he discussed both and get into testified to that the other issue that the defense is raised is it this is the first time that cohen has mentioned this, despite testifying many times about trump, despite being interviewed many times by investigators. so this specific line and if questioning which we previewed in reporting last night saying that they were going to challenge his recollection of a specific conversation that he alleged to have with trump. this is one of the biggest blows the defense's landed so far paula, if if cohen didn't tell the grand jury if he hasn't mentioned this before.

>> and then the prosecution, as you said, does they have to write they have to try to rehab him by exploring this a little bit more. >> but we'll his explanation be believable if it now has this feeling of him trying to explain something that he didn't recollect up until now. it's a huge problem and in many ways, the prosecution might be better served by instead focusing on other things that cohen testified to that have not been undercut by this cross examination around we're still a long way from the end of this of this cross-examination, we know they're also going to look at this idea of these invoices that he was submitted we're they truly falsified. they're going to argue that he was in fact doing legal services. they're going to remind people that trump has many people who testified how cheap he is and then he would be unlikely to gross up a payment to someone just out of the goodness of his heart. and instead, they're going to try to argue that he was doing legal services. that is what he was being paid for them that is what he was submitting invoices for.

they're also going to attack this idea of a retainer agreement. they're going to point out the fact that michael cohen had never had a formal retainer agreement and the entire time that he was represented, trump. >> so it shouldn't be significant now, michael cohen has a long road here and it could be a bloody one if they continue to land more punches like this. and christian we are awaiting donald trump is he's walking out here, but just he's waving their at the cameras a fist in the air. you seems pleased. >> and behind him, chris, and this is actually what i wanted to ask you about. we see matt gaetz we see others behind the president, but there's been a bit of a who's, who in republican policy? politics. they're in the gallery watching the trial today, also on tuesday and monday it's it's this show of support that we have seen this week hey everyone, it's really starting to look like an audition for potential vice president, potential cabinet position, whether or not donald trump wins in november of course there, but we do know one thing

donald trump had been disappointed. he had even been angry about his lack of support, not only inside the courtroom, but outside as well. there's a little area outside the courthouse were pro trump protesters could go and just really never been more than a handful of people at of course, as we know, donald trump has said, which is not true, that they couldn't get it and that these protesters couldn't get into the city. they couldn't get close to the courthouse. but in fact, the courthouse has made an actual face for pro trump protesters. they just haven't shown up since then. >> we've seen a litany of lawmakers, of republican who are vying to be some sort of loyal soldier to the former president, showing up in court behind it. >> not only that, but also kind of taking on the role of a mouth before the former president's. there's one thing that they don't have the restriction of the donald trump does, which is that gag order. they can say whatever they want about these various witnesses. that is what donald trump wants to be doing. he wants to be attacking michael cohen relentlessly, attacking stormy

daniels. now what we're hearing is these lawmakers du his bidding for him and i do want to be clear here. this really is a two-way street. donald trump is getting what he wants out of this, which is a show of force. all of these supporters in the courtroom and on the other side, these republicans are getting to show their loyalty to someone who very well could be president of the united states come november yeah. >> and trump look, he can live vicariously through them. we have heard them even take aim at the judge's daughter, which is someone who donald trump is under gag order to not go after after he had done that before christine and paula. thank you so much for that court resuming here in a matter of minutes, we are getting ready for that. donald trump is you saw just returned to the courtroom. michael cohen is going to be back on the stand and he second for more cross-examination and we will have all the updates when we come back somebody

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relates to an ineffective line of cross-examination from the morning when trump's team was cross-examining colored, basically saying the da's office gave you a heads-up that this indictment had dropped even before it came out kind cohen said, no, i learned on the paper it's kind of a neither here nor there. >> okay. but so here we are. we're coming back donald trump has had a lovely lunch. you can tell as he walked in, adi, i think it was pretty obvious in this very closely literally struck. he was this he did, he started in, he had his republican house friends behind him and he gave sort of like a like a fist in the air to show that he's feeling strong. i thought that was pretty obvious and he has reason to feel that way. what do you expecting? >> well, also coming along way from i think week one where there was some reporting that he had expressed displeasure with todd, blanche, and how the defense strategy was proceedings. so i think to have a very active, striking moment

is the kind of thing that we know from his personality that he appreciates she was paying attention to even setting aside the legal relevance of it. it's the kind of behavior and the kind of cross-examination that people were used to seeing on television at the splashy moment where the defense attorneys wiping his brow and wrinkling is his eyes when he when he incredulous the things that are being said. and i think for a defendant that might be appealing just to recap, just in a couple of sentences, what just happened? michael cohen said the key phone call i made to donald trump about stormy daniels happened on october 24, 2016. now it looks quite clear from the text that lead up to that phone call. it was about a 14-year-old kid who was harassing him over texts. navalny the implication from trump's attorney, right. >> in the week laid out the question in the text square please support that. >> now. now cohen is saying something that he's never said before, which is oh, actually we've talked about both things, which is a new story. it's a problem. it would be more believable if he had said

it before. but this is the first time that he's explaining it. that's really the problem for him. michael cohen back in the witness box now, we're going to start hearing more from him. todd blanche continues his questioning. i wonder which direction you think todd blanche is going to go if we're going to be revisiting, this is the jury now comes back into the court. >> i don't think he goes backwards because he had such success with this, a kind of tied it up with a nice little bow so i i maybe he continues to talk about michael cohen's relationship with the truth but i think to go back to this right now, i just wouldn't expect it. >> i think that's a very good point, but i also wonder what if he had lunch with his client? so that was great. give me seconds at a certain point. again, this is hard to do when you're client as the former leader of the free world, bint a certain point, a defense attorney has to say, look, we are winning quit while you're ahead. and this is on the record now and the further we go ends up risking overdoing

it, gilding the lily as the expression goes now in terms of cohen having said it before, absolutely. it would have been far better for him had either the prosecution gotten it out or had he said it before the grand jury when he had an opportunity to raise that one little sentence, blanche, at the podium, which they good afternoon to mr. cohen. cohen's voice, barely audible as he said, good afternoon. mr. blanche. he must know that this wasn't great. yeah first of all, you people probably wondering, could the prosecutors have spoken with cohen during the lunch break? >> you're allowed. but boy, for their sake, i hope they did not tell us more about that. well, you're allowed to talk to a witness during the break. sometimes you do if it looks like a witness is thirsty, did you need water? you get lunch. are you okay? do you feel okay? but if they ask them anything about his testimony, todd, i bet you, todd blanche will ask did you meet did you speak with anyone during the lunch break? that's a very common post lunch break question. i suspect the prosecutors are smart enough that they didn't talk to him about this just yet, the

thing you say to your client, by the way, to the point elliott was making, if donald trump saying more more, say, i promise you, when i'm giving my closing next week or soon, i'm going to do a song and dance about this. this will be the centerpiece of my closing. save it to then if you go back to it now, all you can do is give cohen a chance to wriggle out, to come up with a different story? water it, down here, that the prosecution might want to when they get their chance to keep him on as long as possible, is they're not the same incentive for the defense to run out the clock, so to speak, to kind of keep cross-examining michael cohen so that this is the last thing people here. no, i think so. the problem is that that means an hour-and-a-half more of cross-examination where they may not have that much more material because they've gotten a lot of the credibility stuff out already all right. >> well, let's let's take a quick break because things are about to get rolling here. >> we want to get an a quick break and we'll be right back with much more of our special coverage. ahead. we go back to your because the cross-examination of michael cohen resumes more than 500

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shown to the jury. a text exchange between michael cohen and a 14-year-old prankster this has now become not a sideshow, but very central to the entire situation today. this is incredibly significant now, clearly, the defendant doesn't think so because he appears to have his eyes closed as the testimony is getting back underway. but this has been one of the best moments for his defense so far, because what they've done is they have managed to raise questions about whether cohen testified truthfully about a call he allegedly had with them, candidate trump in october 2016, he testified that he called him to update them on the stormy daniels hush money payment, but defense attorneys have honored perfect receipts, suggesting that this may actually been a call to keith schiller to discuss a 14-year-old prankster who was harassing him. now they're seeing these text messages and waiting for them to pop up on the screen. but we can see them first where cohen is threatening this 14-year-old and threatening to have the secret service go after him. now, cohen is telling him that this number, the pranksters number has just been sent to

the secret service because of your ongoing continuous harassment to both myself and the organization. now you see that right here. and then if you are a minor, i suggest you notify your parent or guardian the text from cohen continued. now, the minor goes on to apologize profusely, say it was a friend. now harassing a 14-year-old about prank calls, not why we're here, but what matters is the timeline. and these were the text messages that cohen is firing off right before he and keith schiller connected. now the teenager says didn't do it. i'm 14, please don't do this again. it doesn't simply about cannes secret exactly. it doesn't reflect well on his character, but the reason this matters is defense attorneys are lining up these text messages one after another and then showing that cohen then text keith schiller asking what he should do about a prankster. then they get on the call and michael cohen and prosecutors are asking the jury to believe that next call was about stormy daniels and not about the prankster. >> right. but that timeline, of course, chris and at most it certainly raises a question. well, when you look at it as to

what that call was really, right. >> and when we talk about the prosecution and we talked about how they painted this call, michael cohen said that because of his loyalties to the former president, that anything he knew about what was going on with stormy daniels, he had to immediately contact the former president to let him know keith him apprised in the course that goes to the messaging that the prosecution laid out in all of their witnesses that donald trump was a micromanager and michael cohen was just following directions to keep loyal to him now, you have a situation in which he is texting keith schiller about this prankster that he's talking to for 90 seconds to 90 seconds, that's supposed to be about stormy daniels. then after the call, he's texting him, the pranksters number, right. >> so in that conversation, the urgency about the stormy daniels part is supposed to be in there along with the fact that there was a conversation about this break certainly raises that we just finished talking and i'm following up with the number. it raises that question. i want to bring out the former florida judge and criminal defense attorney, jeff swartz into the conversation. so jeff is you hear christian and paula analyzing this and giving this crucial contacts? this conversation, and this

exchange with this 14-year-old prankster. and then the subsequent conversations with keith schiller that cohen has said, we're about stormy daniels does it in your mind if you're presenting this to a jury, does it raise a reasonable doubt that in fact it may have been about the 14-year-old prankster and not stormy daniels and go right to the heart of cohen's credibility ethan of itself at this point. i don't think that it raises, quote, reasonable doubt, close quote. however, you have to remember that there's going to be redirect and the real possibility is that that is going to get cleaned up in one form or another by redirect. and that is you're gonna hear michael say what he said before and that was the call was to schiller and he asked whether the boss was there and when he heard the boss was there, he made about a to two or three seconds statement to the boss that everything is taken care of with daniels. in other words, trying to reassure them i anticipate that you're going to try to write. they are going

to clear it up somehow all right, so let me just ask you, you, paula, as a judge is saying what about keith schiller himself? >> he now become central because he would have a version of this conversation did that quick interjection about stormy daniels happen or did it not? but yet he's not called as a witness. >> yeah. first of all, i will note that under questioning from todd blanche, even michael cohen couldn't quite clean this up and he started to say that he didn't recall this conversation, so prosecutors are going to have a lot of work ahead of them to clean this up. but the mystery of keith schiller is one that's been hanging out there. he did at one point talk to invest instigators about conversations that he had with david pecker, the head of ami, someone we heard from early early in this case, but keith schiller is not on the witness. listen, he's an unexpected to be called, which is odd because he is a key character. he's there, it came on, it's not alleged to be a part of the conspiracy, but possibly a witness who could corroborate or undercut other what do you make of that? why why not? keith schiller? it would seem by the way, and so much of this from even standing outside the door with the stormy daniels alleged incident lake tahoe. now, to this

crucial conversation, as trump's considerably air, he central why isn't he here? >> i can't answer why other than may may have tried to talk to them and they don't know exactly what keith schiller is going to say his loyalty to donald trump is completely unadulterated he obviously has made that clear. the real problem is that if you don't put him on, his another empty chair that goes along with weisselberg these people know things. these people were part of things. why didn't the state put them on? why weren't they witnesses? not our obligation to put the mind. that's what you're going to hear and closing arguments. so we now have two empty chairs that the state is going to have to come up with some reason tend to explain away yeah. >> kristen and then on the flip side of it, there's also the question from trump sayyed, it's not on their list either right? exactly. but i will say the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove this case,

and those two witnesses, particularly we say allen weisselberg and keith schiller were brought in. they could i'll break some of what michael cohen has said and knowing that this entire case hinges on michael cohen, why wouldn't you bring into people who can apparently cooperate to two very important parts of this. one michael cohen testifying that allen weisselberg was coming up with different ways to cover up the hush money payments and to obviously keith schiller now being parked central to this conversation so judge shortage, right now, just to happening, sounds like blanche's doing what i heard him do the other de and the courtroom going back to how cohen worked with journalists to get positive stories planted about trump to suppress negative stories or to push put negative stories about his rivals what do you make of the strategy overall here with blanche? >> the non-linear nature with which he has attacked this cross-examination there's there's both sides to this. >> number one, you can lose the jury by not having something in

a nice linear way. and going through it like the state good step-by-step from beginning to end to the same extent you can fully pound on a subject so much and then you go off to something new and then come back to the first subject again. so blanche has tried to get as many shots at michael cohen as he possibly can on a lot of subjects, but try to get the attention of the jury back because earlier i heard a report that the jury really was kinda lost after a couple of hours, they were looking around the room, they stopped taking notes. they'd heard enough of what blanche was asking questions about. so he's trying to get their attention back which i'll say is as all of us who've been in that courtroom knows, it takes a lot to distract the story. they pay very close attention. so a little tongue and cheek here, but it doesn't say much if you were able to make them board. all right. thank you. all. christian paul are going to stay with me and much more of our special coverage is ahead. going is now answering questions as i said, about his

relationship with the frehse and what sort of stories he was working to both place and suppress more on the trial. >> that's cohen continues to testify the stanley cup playoffs presented by geico around ten as the region's look to close out the season daughters are starting to heat up. >> this is going to be funny, isn't it ranges hurricanes spoilers, couldn't. >> numbers begins tonight at 6:30 on tnt. it's kubota orange days chapter year's biggest collection of komodo equipment, hey, get 0% apr for 84 months, or up to $3,300 off select got back directors, find your nearest dealer at kubota orange days.com spot i'm sorry. there was a long line at the time place. >> he at the outside like of course with. a man.

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commission of another crime not charged in this case, but intellection crime, right. so that's clutch, that's important because is it is it the donald trump didn't want the stormy daniels story out there because he was just worried what his wife would think, what his family would think or was it because he was worried about the election and that's what a line of questioning that todd blanche is posing towards michael cohen just went to the heart of here. it says, and this is referring let's go way back. 2011, dirty.com story about stormy daniels, donald trump, that michael cohen helped have removed. and he's saying then trump was actually worried about what his family would think in the brand and michael orment in february of 2021 that the first thing trump had said was bng co what do you think about the shirt? >> so it's abundantly clear that he's concerned about both things. >> and i think both the effect l effect on the campaign different time different times. and now what the defense is

doing here is laying the groundwork for ambiguity and the jury's mind as to whatever instruction the judge gives as to how you weigh the two things against each other. that's going to be a complex little calculus now, i believe the law will say that the substantial reason for falsifying the records had to be the campaign. well, what does substantial mean and how do you weigh it against someone? and who clearly had a record of saying at least according this testimony, that he was worried about what the effect would be on his family. so it's going to be just a jumble and the jury's mind from earlier, what we're seeing is get them moving on to a different issue. they're not spending time talking about this very what we were all describing as like a pivotal moment that we're not hearing about this 14-year-old another hour. so it'll be interesting to see where this goes, right, because now we've seen, we've witnessed and build up, build up an angle. >> let's mentioned what we're seeing or what we're hearing is happening in court here, which is that cohen is being asked about how many times he

recorded conversations with reporters? yeah and he says it wasn't a lot, but he estimates it was 40 which is on the scale of how often a person can record themselves talking to reporters. >> i think 40 is kinda high. that's because you're a lawyer for border. >> i mean, that that's possible. >> yeah. i mean, i'm really intrigued to see where this goes. it was led by a question about, do you have a relationship with maggie haberman, our colleague, here at santa and who is a new york times reporter, michael cohen says, yes, i suspect they're going to play a tape of something that michael cohen said to maggie or other reporters pretty soon, adding to that, maggie is in the courtroom. so there have been a number of names obviously, that have come up in this. and here, here's another one that is happening, but you expect that there's going to be a recording? >> yeah, i think so. blanche asked cohen to clarify that he did didn't record calls with reporters in 2017 and 18, but he did in 2016 michael cohen's use of recordings is another

interesting issue here, because remember, michael cohen recorded, let's say kalisa says he would have to check and blanche replies, we'll check together. >> so he's got some documents. he's got a show trying to say i've got you. yeah, he's looking and you want the jury to be leaning in a little bit. >> michael cohen also recorded donald trump, who is his client when they were talking about the karen mcdougal payment. and i think they're going to get into that. >> he is weighing that. he is just to be clear i mean, some people and we'll be curious with the jury says, michael cohen says that he was doing that. he was recording. are you talking about the david pecker young call? he says he was doing it to make sure that david pecker, the head of ami i'm remained loyal. now, if the jury is going to buy that, we will see that is the story from michael cohen. >> well, let's see what these texts between mag and cone. we're about trump has leaned forward and there are some texts here. he says blanche says, by the way, did you to tell people you were recording them? and cohen said, no, sir. and let's just be very clear that is highly uncool highly.

>> now, some states some states, if it's a one party or a party consent state. >> so what to put some meat and questionable even if it's not illegal new york is one of about 30 states that it's a one-party consent state. so as long as one party consents to recording a phone conversation, you can do it doesn't mean you ought two doesn't mean people won't judge it if you do, people probably won't appreciate they will not appreciate that just as a general understanding, we should know that and particularly if you're not, for instance, a journalist, make recording to supplement notes that you're taking by hand. if you're just someone having either a social or casual conversation with someone yes, people might react very strongly to know, well, my question is, did you record them to play them for someone else? >> oh, well, look, he he's recording people and ten conversations for a reason to be sure to play for donald trump to play yeah. >> no. i this was i don't remember that specifically, but

it's not illegal. >> the point is going to be that michael cohen tape people for a reason as glory was saying he wants to have leveraged, he wants to have something in his back pocket. it's it's even look, recording journalists. i don't recommend it. you're allowed to do it. if it's a one-party state but recording your client as a lawyer, i mean, i've asked on air several defense lawyers have been practicing for decades have you ever done this? and if you ask them that they look at you like why on earth that would be wildly unethical and huizar to do that, what ethical, bizarre and just creating all kinds of extra materials that could be subpoenaed or whatever. i'll just don't do it. it just seems like a silly thing to do. >> donald trump has said he didn't even like as lawyers to take notes, write much less recorded, and michael cohen testified that he was in the case of this david pecker recording that he was holding the phone, but he wasn't where if donald donald trump didn't know he was being recorded, that's what is very clear from this. so that is it would be one thing to say to your client. hey, is it cool? do you want me to hang onto this for

something but it wasn't done with consent and that is usually my problem. assume that trump's attorney would be bringing this up if he thought there was some thing incriminating for his own clients, obviously, they're going down this path for a reason. >> all right. we have a lot to look at here. things are continuing can you mean we're going to keep an eye on that? we're going to take a quick break and we'll be going right back to new york or reporters or outside and inside the courthouse where this is all unfolding as the defense is asking michael cohen questions about him taping dozens of conversations with reporters will have that next rice diabetes is no slowing down. >> each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do that's why you choose concern it to help manage blood

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>> the defense is continuing its cross-examination of trump's former attorney and fixer, michael cohen asking one about 95 secret recordings that cohen kept on his phone including some with reporters kristen holmes and paula reid are back with me. all right. so paula, what do you think is the oh here, obviously they blanche is making the point that cohen recorded conversations without the other party knowing about them, which is allowed in new york. although of course not atactic, anybody would think is above board, but these making a point, there were a lot of them. yeah. and included in conversations that he recorded of his own client without his client's knowledge and blanche recalling something that michael cohen has previously testified to is that he served tissue sli recorded his client so that he could play it for a third-party david pecker without his clients knowledge? now, right now, i've learned just hurting to the 2015 trump tower meeting with david pecker but this speaks to cohen's modus operandi. how dishonest or honest he is. i mean, that's really i think what they were getting out here really focused less on the conversations with journalists,

but more so on the fact that you would record your own client and for this purpose, right now, of course cohen has said, and i'm sure we'll say again that the reason he did that was to show david pecker trump doesn't tend to pay you back and wasn't detect donald trump protect owls. i'm which is the argument he makes, but kristen, what do you think the point? this may be or is there one i guess, you know, when you wonder with blanche as why he was going through reporters, media executives, people that cohen record, we've seen from top lives so far far is that all of these have come with receipts. so clearly we're getting to something that he's trying to show that michael cohen maybe lied about in or misspoke about or or is harder to prove during his the prosecution's questioning than where we are now. and so we as policy, you're turning to this 2015 trump tower meeting getting with david pecker that is likely to then talk about this recording that came up. he never ended up playing the recording for david pecker. he said by that everything had been solved they were fine. but i do think also part of this is just to continue to paint.

michael cohen is on ethical. here's a blank asked cohen about his previous testimony that the power of the national enquirer was its placement in supermarkets. so that's i don't know where he's going with this, but clearly it says, have you ever told anybody that before your testimony this week wanted to ask, right? >> to see what he's trying. to build. i will say paula, one thing in this whole according part that is interesting is that if trump has this kristen saying if he eventually did did pay and that issue went away, the issues which cohen was recording the call to protect his client. >> yeah. then why didn't the recording go away? >> i it's a great it's a great question, i think right now blanche is trying to highlight how many things that cohen has said in the course of this trial that he has never said before for some witnesses that wouldn't be unusual when you think of how many media interviews cohen has done, how many times investigators have spoken with him? how many times he has spoken about this publicly this is a significant thing for the defense to highlight that. wait a second. you've had for years even talking about this as having eight years ago and you're

only remembering this now. now, apparently that cohen is disputing blanche's assertion michael cohen testified about the power of the national enquirer after david pecker testified about the power of the national enquirer, cohen disputes. this suggestion that he altered his testimony once he heard what david pecker said. but this is not the first time that they're picking up on something. he's never said before. if he can continue and establish a pattern that could go a long way towards undermining cohen's credibility. >> and what other part of this spoke to a lawyer about this at the very beginning. so two days ago, whenever we started the problem let's examination when they were asking michael cohen about whether or not he was following the trial closely and wondering why we were talking think about that. and part of this was this lawyer told me this is exactly that he could fill in the holes. >> the questioning is, is this person so out to get donald trump? >> that he would be watching the testimony so closely that then he could cooperate it and say things he's never said or

change his testimony or fill in holes or gaps that these potential other witnesses didn't have and he shouldn't be is look its lawyer was telling you that there should be some kind of line here that he wouldn't be watching all this so closely. now, of course, they can't stop him from watching what's going on with the trial. but in some cases like this, when it this is our actually sequestered from hearing other witnesses are seeing the coverage. we just happen to be in such a high-profile case that we're covering everything that's coming out of the courtroom, right? right. okay. all stay with us. of course. as this testimony continues a much more of our special coverage of the donald trump hush money trial is straight ahead. >> we'll be back after russia. is. we're trying to spy on us. we were spying on them in this saturday, friday this is a war. but secret was secret and spies, a nuclear game premier sunday, june 2, that ten on c, kinda riva support your brain health. mary janet, hey, eddie,

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closed captioning is brought to you by sokoloff law mesothelial move victims call now 30 billion in trust money has been set aside. you may be entitled to a portion of that money. all when 8085920400. that's when 8085920400 this is cnn special live coverage of the first criminal trial of a former president. >> i'm briana keeler here in washington. erin burnett is in new york outside the courthouse, and we're following all of the breaking details as donald trump's former fixer, michael cohen is back under cross-examination. the defense continuing its effort to discredit the prosecution's star witness, raising questions about whether michael cohen answered truthfully about a call that he had in 2016. that's so important to the prosecution's case when cohen said he called trump to update him on the stormy daniels hush money payment defense attorney todd blanche press cohen about

that call alleging that the short conversation was really about a string of phone calls that cohen had received from a teenage prankster, aaron which i know sounds so bizarre. briana is you're saying it. i started to talk over. of course it is central to all of this. and moments ago there was another interesting moment in court when cohen was questioned about dozens of times where he recorded phone conversations with reporters and people in the media. our team inside court tells us that trump turned to one of his attorneys and smiled during this line of questioning. okay. as this is continuing polo, they're talking about calls. so saying blanche says michael cohen, how many calls did you receive a day? and i think he said 100. blanche says, let's go with 50. so obviously, not being in the room, we can't interpret was that some sort of a snark? well, whatever you see, i'm going to cut it in half because you're a serial wire or what point he's making. >> but they're still talking about these calls. i think the point he's trying to make this on my understanding of the strategy is how many calls even conservatively michael cohen

was making in 2016 and 2017. and i think they came to 14,000 a year and then blanche asked, how is it possible that you remember specific details, right? these phone calls are things that i've been talking about for the past six years. cohen says in response to this question calling them extremely important. so blanche, trying to call into question whether cohen is able to accurately remember conversations you had with trump or david pecker eight years ago, cohen is responding that these were important to me, which is why i remember that. and it's gonna be up to the jury to decide died which side of that story they believe. right? i guess that's the crucial thing if you're getting that many calls, you remember some read only very specific small subset, right? >> it also the, we have reported the some of the calls or at least one of the calls that he has talked about in this trial were not things that he has been recalling for the last six years are talking about for the six the last six years, these are not something thing that he is repeated over and over again in various testimonies they were new information that came out during this trial. and that's something that cohen just said.

now the other part of this we're hearing from our court reporters is that cohen is speaking in an even flow term tone at times whole thing we like he is choosing his words very carefully. remember this is critical for michael cohen. this is critical for the case, for the prosecution. >> the entire case hinges on him, and now they're asking him about basically what he has said made the case, which is this phone call to donald trump linking him to all of this. >> right. >> and paul, i mean, to this point about the way that christians talking about how cohen is presenting himself right now, he was quiet under direct. the other de, in a very subdued purposely, so he doesn't want to look like a bombastic, angry person the way he's been portrayed. but also just a quiet voice, deferential ma'am, sir? >> but interesting what kristen saying, but now it appears even quieter and that he is well aware of the import of his words and trying to think maybe to figure out what blanche is trying to do to choose his words care holy for a year, he's been preparing for this arguably maybe for about six or

seven years. >> he's been mentally preparing for this, but he's been coach for a year, unfortunately, 100 different instances hours were he has sat down with prosecutors now right now, based upon the other documents that i was able to look at. so here collins is saying that sometimes they show him documents and that helps to jog his memory, but his demeanor is interesting he's clearly been coached by prosecutors, yeah. how to handle this. he knows this is going to be tough. they're trying to get to him. but even though they haven't gotten an emotional reaction out of him, they have landed some punches here and they have done some damage to property secures case, specifically by undercutting cohen's credibility about key pieces of testimony. interesting, the jury's reaction to that we're hearing there was a time when they appear to lose the train of this and maybe get a little bored or distracted, which is saying something. >> and as i said, i know it sounds funny to say that, but even in times when other people have been maybe sleepy, that jury has never wavered and paying attention in that room. certainly that i've seen. >> so it does say something that maybe today they did lose the train of thought of it.

>> there wasn't bouncing around. i think that we would all agree that toddler blanche has done your lines of questioning and then gone back in time, gone forward in time, which i'm told by their is attorneys isn't a normal way of handling it but here's his blanche quizzes cohen on whether he recalled his lengthy conversation with chris cuomo in 2016 with donald hold trump. what were you talking to mr. cuomo about? blanche asked, now this is probably going to go back to what we just saw, which was him saying, did you always brief trump when you we're going to talk to various it's reporters, words it always about planting positive stories. cohen says they were talking about his appearance and other issues related to it right? >> i think chris is actually talked about this particular conversation as well. >> all right. everyone is staying with us as we're continuing to watch this. so this is an interesting exchange going on right now, briana. >> yeah, it certainly is zero. and let's talk about this. as you see, todd blanche sort of challenging michael cohen on his memory of phone calls. and michael cohen seems to be saying, hey, no remember the exact time that it was eight

zero p.m. but i remember what we talked about in the call because it was important. i've thought about it and talked about it for six years and cohen still challenged on that. he also said, based upon the other documents that i would was able to look at it, jogs it to my memory, talk to us a little bit about just line of questioning that can be true, that someone can remember having had a conversation not remembered, wasn't 802 804806? i think what todd blanche is getting at here though. this is why he sort of have that back-and-forth about 50 calls a day versus 100 calls a day. so you got 14,000 calls a year and you're going to come here and tell us that you have precise memories of one particular conversation. and by the way, wink, wink also happens to be the one that incriminates the defendant here. but you don't have specific memories of 13,999 other calls of the course of the year. it just sort of its again, it's another credibility question. >> we is it a credibility question? or is it a human nature question? because i would ask you, adi gets a context question given what was discussed earlier in the day

about the texts and the kid, et cetera. >> can i can can i ask you about this? you get you talked to a lot of people. >> you get a lot of questions. i'm assuming there are some phone conversations over the course of the last years that you were totally going to forget? yeah. but some that you remember vividly, that'll be fair to say. i would point to the testimony that we've heard where he says, i've been talking about this for six years straight. i think he's trying to convey the idea that this isn't just me saying this now, this is something i have been saying for. >> i always say it's a credibility question in so far as it is when you walk through someone's memories in front of a jury, even little things like, well, did you remember it was 802 or eight or 4:00 p.m. speak to how much the jury can trust the witness. now, common sense says, of course, he hasn't remember all that, but we're not jurors. so what about the do you remember if you were talking about a 14-year-old prankster or not, and if you can make the case that i mean, yeah, i forgot about that whatever is that

convincing no, it's not comes knocking, but i don't think it's too late. >> yeah. >> but what is he said? i've been talking about this for six years. what's this? is this stormy daniels think that's what he means. it was ambiguous. just to bring people up to speed with what's happening now. now, they've turned to this really important incident when michael cohen records a conversation that he had in-person with donald trump. now they're getting ready to pay karen mcdougal off. and michael cohen apparently takes out his cell phone records. this conversation with trump, and then they talk for a couple of minutes. we've all seen this call. it's not public or not call this recorded conversation. it's now public and then michael cohen cell phone, which he's using to record the conversation, receives an incoming call cutting it off. what's really important about this recording? first of all, it was as we were saying before, it completely unethical. and in fact, todd blanche got michael cohen to acknowledge that you don't record your own client and now todd blanche is attacking michael collins. explanation for why he recorded that. what michael cohen said on his

direct testimony is, i want it to be able to play this recording for david pecker to assure him that he would get paid that opens up a lot of questions that we're at todd's about to get into here. i do want to get back to aaron in new york with some new details. aaron, what can you tell us all right. >> brown, we have some breaking news here from kristen and paula. this is on a witness that the defense may call attorney bob castello so you guys have worked on this together, i guess, poet first, who is he? and what is he going? why is he here? >> yeah, bob sell it was a long trump ally. he's represented trump allies like rudy giuliani for long in time and for a period who represented michael cohen now wonka stella was the only witness that the trump defense team put before the grand jury in this case last year before trump was indicted, and they put them on to undercut michael cohen's credibility because he will testify casella has testified repeatedly that when he was representing michael cohen, michael cohen repeatedly told

him that he had no evidence of criminal conduct by trump. there was nothing he could offer investigators the other instances that would undercut cohen's credibility and a big question so far has been, we'll he testified in this case yesterday. he testified on capitol hill lot of trump allies are very amped up about this appearance. and there were questions about whether that would prompt the trump team to reach out to him. we've learned that there has been outreach and now it's possible he'll testify, even though so far he hasn't been on the witness lesson. kristen's been talking to her sources as well to learn more about what's going on with costello. right. and what do you learn and his name has been circulating? >> they have not made any final don't decisions. this is still an ongoing conversation, but some of what he said yesterday is something that donald trump himself would be very fond of. essentially, he talked about his former club client, michael cohen. he said that virtually every statement that cohen made on the stand about costello was a lie. he also said that cohen cherry picks different parts of emails or conversations and

that that's how oh, he lies. so he clearly here as a witness. the trump's team might want to call to help them with cohen as of now, up until evening today before testified it didn't seem like he was going to be called. >> they're really not putting on much of the case. they're expected to call one expert witness and election expert very briefly, mostly to preserve some issues for peel. so if big if they call costello, that would pretty much be their case, but it would be the same as it was for the grand jury, but ever since the witnesses started leaking out, we've been asking why isn't costello on this list if he was the only person you put before the grand jury? it wasn't clear there were some theories, but as of our reporting now it's something that is under possibly under consideration though as far from certain that l take the stand, his relationship with trump trump and how it soured. i i'm sorry, i was reading through this right now, but not on trump and costello had a relationship co-sell has been in donald trump's orbit for a very long time. it's very close the rudy giuliani, again, as you noted, he was the

go-between during that time, but also the relationship soured when he didn't pay his bills, when trump didn't pay castellows bills we reported at the time that giuliani and costello went together to bedminster was actually ask donald trump to pay the bills there and trump said, no, he held a fundraiser for julian the army, but that reads like costello is still owe to significant amount of money. so that was a lot of the behind the scenes conversations of donald trump's team would want to bring that up right? yeah. exactly. >> this is all adds such intrigue to this, but also so as the pressure that the offence may feel that their unto at least put some sort of a case out on this yeah, certainly. and this will be very intriguing to see what may come of this if it materializes, aaron. thank you so much for that. and i'm curious what you think is i look at what costello has said in the past in testimony before congress, he's talked about how michael cohen for reason reasons that he goes on to explain wave the attorney-client privilege and the duty of loyalty of a lawyer to a client. so he would be

forthcoming would be the expectation if he he's on the stand. >> yeah, because that was said this in the very recent past, namely yesterday, the timing is interesting if the defense is going to call because hello, it clear will be to undercut michael cohen's testimony, we got a hint of what it might be of one specific line earlier this morning. this goes to michael cohen's testimony and claimed that he never wanted or saw a pardon from donald trump costello clearly who represented it's a little bit disputed. was he fully the lawyer or was he just consulting but had conversations with michael cohen, says apparently that cohen absolutely was seeking and hoping for a pardon. so what he said before yeah, to me, it goes to his credibility. it's not exactly a headshot or anything, but if they think it's going to score some points, then they know what they're doing. oh, yeah, i agree with that. it defense audit audit always be cautious about calling witnesses because the anytime the defense puts anybody on the stand that subjects that witness to cross-examination blob castellows got enough dirty

stuff in his background, at least in terms of credibility, questions, and bias against the defendant relationship with the defendant may just not want to put them on and given depth of cross-examination has already undercut michael cohen's credibility. a pretty significant amount. it's not clear what adding a whole witness just to do that would really do. all right. let's take a quick break as we continue to watch what is happening here with michael cohen since continued cross-examination, we're following all of the breaking details that are coming out of court in manhattan. >> we'll be right back with more cq nova story. >> but there's the surface, how it really happened with jesse l. martin. sunday's at night on cnn. >> sure. i'm a paid actor and this isn't a real company, but there's no way to fake up work can help your business so it's talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not

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the case itself, the presentation of the case is pretty much over and all you have to do is do your closings and then charge the jury. there'll be a little bit of litigation over what the jury hears next week. like most of the weeks in this case, there's only three days. >> so you get up to 30 today and it's this question that no one can answer. will the judge give the jury the case before uh, for de memorial day holiday because he was trying to get them earlier today to work on wednesday this the day off, but he said you might have to work, but jurors couldn't do it, and you could tell what it was trying to do. he was trying to get them the kind of go so they could get it wednesday and thursday and likely have a verdict. but as of right now, it appears we'd likely won't have a verdict until after memorial day. and right now it says the judge asked for trone from both sides to join him in the roving room because he wants them to present they want he wasn't present to talk to a juror who said he or she has an appointment at 1:30 next thursday. >> so clearly an issue on timing if they were trying to give the case over right around

that. and so which by the way, i'm just going to say they've already gone through dates, they already gave off next friday because the juror is a flight at 11:00 a.m. having to be in the room for this. so i know the details so you would have known about the two 30 appointment or one 30 appointment today before i will say. all right. >> did you have wednesdays off? we've had most most of these please have been three-day. we have but we understand people need to live their lives. but this could to our point earlier, this could give the judge and out and he says maybe no court thursday and then do closings and give the jury the case the following week, right? >> well, this is going to be fascinated by the former communications director for the trump administration. >> gunky joins us now mike, what do you make all of the all of this is going to be a crucial verdict, whatever it is. and the fact that it could come down to someone having an appointment one day and then a four-day weekend seems crazy, but yet that is the reality of it. >> well, as they say, the wheels of justice grind slowly. so i think that's what we're faced here with. but at the end of the day, the testimony today is just been revealing to me we

seem to have the prosecution resting all of their eggs in one basket and it's not working out for them and you're referring to the basket of the phone call i'm i'm referring to michael cohen, frankly. >> i mean, it's my overall yeah. he was he was a zealot in his defense of donald trump, and he seems to be a zealot and his, and his aggressiveness and getting the president convince elected here. but yeah, this is we're going to go an extra two weeks. we're going to have a presidential campaign again, run out of a courtroom and we're looking at the end of may before we get any any resolution. >> so my god presume michael cohen is something that you knew and interacted with. what do you make of his demeanor on the sandwich, which certainly i can say i saw the other day and i know we're hearing now that he's even more subdued, but he's been very soon dude, very under control. there have been

no outbursts or anger or of any of these things which the defense has tried to portray him as being. we have not seen that at all on the stand. >> it's very it seems very out of character for michael cohen. i do not know him as well as other individuals like hope hicks and others who have testified in this case. i had some limited interaction with them in my limited interaction with him years ago. he was not come kuilan collected. this is a very different michael cohen on the stand and in terms of trump's reaction, mike, what do you what do you make a bad i'm just going to the point of obviously, it's hard to see. >> sometimes his eyes are closed and he's leaning back, not fully paying attention, but a lot of today he has been looking towards that witness stand. clearly. and there was a moment when todd blanche was talking to michael cohen about how many times he had recorded phone conversation as with journalists and others in the

media. and trump's short a smiled and tapped and looked at one of his attorneys and was very engaged in that particular moment. does that mean anything to you? >> anything beyond the fact that i'm sure that that donald trump knew the line of questioning that they were going to proceed with today. i am sure that he has been active in his defense and he was very curious to see how michael cohen reactants. so i think we're now getting to that stage of the testimony. that stage of the trial where the president's feeling confident donald trump's feeling confident in the outcome of this he knows that michael cohen is has kind of worked himself into a corner and i think that's what he was more or less paying attention to and i should say mic right now, we were just watching everybody what has now become a very familiar cast of characters, trump whoever the republicans of the day who are in the courts support. >> and matt gaetz was in there

right now along with the attorneys and associates who are supporting his made attorney to all just have gone right back into that courtroom. mike, i really appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> yeah. you're welcome. thank you all right. >> mike, we and we've got much more of our special coverage ahead because they are now back in the courtroom. they're going to walk right up that i'll sit down. jury seated, and we will be back in business with cohen on the sand hey, there, brenda. it's carroll. exactly which library operating on. >> you mean arm? >> it's all connected, asking the right question can greatly impact your future. >> you share your an orthopedist. >> actually, i'm a sagittarius specially when it comes to your finances, give a question.

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back now with our breaking news coverage or former president trump's hush money trial back with our panel now, and court had taken a quick break. >> it has now resumed with todd blanche trump's lawyer up there at the podium, and he's saying to michael cohen, i want to talk for a few minutes about the $130,000 a payment that you made to stormy daniel's? of course, we're curious where this is going. i don't know if anyone has thoughts about that or if we should revisit what happened before luck, i guess i think they're going to talk about the way michael cohen got that money. he drew down on his own home mortgage. he did not tell his wife about that. the banker who arranged that loan from michael cohen, gary farro is his name. i somehow remember testified earlier in this trial. and basically said michael cohen liked me. he didn't tell me you had anything to do with what it had to do with et cetera, also, the theory, there's no question. michael cohen paid stormy daniel's $130,000. the defense

de is gonna be that's something that michael cohen did on his own. and that either trump didn't know about it, or if trump didn't know about it, the argument will be he didn't understand the mechanics behind it, which is really where the crime leinz now there's documents that undercut that defense, but that'll be the argument, right. >> the question is, did donald trump no, you were taking out a home equity loan? to do this. did he know the details or did he live up there and you were down here doing exactly what you felt you needed to do. and therefore trump? trump can't be implicated in this because he knew nothing about it, even if say just allen weisselberg knew that michael cohen had taken out a he lock and this is how he was paying it off. >> and it needed to be 420 grand to cover the taxes. there was also some kind of bonus in there, some other stuff. even if there's just the establishment of weisselberg knowing all the ins and outs and trump just saying all right, got it. because he trusts weisselberg, who by the

way, we have not heard from and don't expect two. >> would that be enough to implicate trump? it depends how he said it and how the evidence of it gets into the record. again, as a matter of common sense. absolutely. it's really all a question of what's put in front of the jury. again, i keep saying the words, common sense because one of the attorneys will argue this in their closing saying, ladies and gentlemen, just trust your gut. think about what you've seen and what you've been shown and you can plausibly believe that donald trump believed these things prosecutors want to get knowledge of the illegality here over the weisselberg because weisselberg is also close to trump. >> if the proof is that all trump knew was yes, we're paying off stormy daniel's go ahead and i want to keep her quiet for the election. >> that's not enough. they have to impute some knowledge of the way it was structured. the accounting of it in order to make trump liable for again, 34 counts of falsifying business records. if i can get it to weisselberg, though you're a good step closer to

that. and i'm sorry. >> it's just going to say this also brings to mind the testimony during the i think hope hicks cross-examination and also the prosecution about what his potential motivations might be. and there was commentary about how he probably would not have done something like this out of the goodness of his heart or loyalty, et cetera. so there's some work here that the defense needs to do and helping people to understand what his motive may have been and how he handled this money is we take a step back, just looking at the kind of day that it has been. and who it has benefited. i do want to zero in on something that our kara scannell noted which was as they did just take a quick break in court, you had todd blanche, and donald trump walking back and she said side-by-side, which was something that she really hasn't seen regularly in this normally trump goes in front of his lawyers and todd blanche was laughing at something that was said between them. we also saw another moment where donald trump's of gave like a raised first i think to show strength as he was heading back into the courtroom after lunch, it just

speaks to what this moment before lunch has meant for this entire day in this entire trial, i think you could interpret for that to donald trump giving an attaboy to todd blanche. there have been stories that he thought that blanche wasn't aggressive enough and today, as we saw blanche, who was quite aggressive against michael cohen, and that's to a great degree when you talked about them 14 year-old prankster on that phone call and keith schiller, et cetera, massive justice juxtaposition given what happened during stormy daniels testimony, which came off as arguably embarrassing or humiliating for the former president and which has a attorneys repeatedly demanded a miss trial for various reasons because of the things that came out of it. >> so you're right and i think are folks who are in the courtroom and seeing this are seeing a tonal shift in atmosphere shift. >> and he's engaged today watching. he's looking at this testimony, things are going

well for him i just wonder how we got to this point and what you think you've seen a lot of things develop in court. you've seen a lot of trials. have you ever seen something like this kind of a twist like this? >> i don't think i've ever seen a star cooperating witness get his knees chopped out quite as clearly and dramatically as what just happened with michael cohen. i've certainly seen very effective cross-examinatio ns of cooperating witnesses. i've seen aspects of their story cut into and called into question, but this goes to the heart of the allegation here that phone call, october 24, and it looks to the jury and to emerson cooper and kara scannell and judge george grosso, who are all in the courthouse that that was a devastating moment. there's also i don't want to hear ella hits view on that is where an interesting moment, right? i worked 25 minutes away from the end of the court day, which chen's it for today? i believe that top-line is going to keep his cross going so that when they come back into court for five days and on monday, if he

finds new stuff in the next four days, he will have the ability to continue the cross. yeah. and keep it fresh in the minds of the jury. we should just let our viewers know this is home and did is just played out in court which was there there has been this effort on the part of the defense to really portray stormy daniel's and her council, former council, as extortionists. and to that point, you just had todd blanche before this bring up that didn't you say something like that? and he said, yes, i did he did refer to them as trying to extort trump. and now referring to the daniel statement, blanche asked and make no mistake. this was a completely legal binding contract, but cohen agreeing, hush money paid payments, legal contracts between consenting parties, legal even when they involve sex and porn stars and so on. and what the defense is getting at here is that they use the term situation earlier in the trial. was this a contract with consideration of thing of value exchange and then put on paper between parties. that's all this is. i think this this is the

defense's argument ladies and gentlemen, don't get lost in all this minutiae about campaigns is people contracting with each other perfectly legal and even common what shady but maybe shady. but as he said, this happens all the time. >> the nondisclosure agreement thank you all so much for walking through this de with us. obviously, a very important one today in this criminal trial of former president is it in trump ahead? we're going to take you back to new york where our reporters are outside the courthouse also inside watching all of this unfolding. >> we'll be right back riyadh saves new album is breaking records yes to say what country is comey country beyond, say a nashville's renaissance. monday, may 27th at eight phone cnn and brian garia. >> today we're talking about the biggest misconception there is about replacement windows i'm here with ted cones, the

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you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back right now the defense is continuing its cross-examination of trump's former attorney and fixer, michael cohen, kristen, and paul hello. >> are with me and probably for a few minutes it was sort of a collective, whereas todd blanche going but right now you think, you know exactly the point he's trying hi to make about michael cohen work he did for the trump family and how he was paid for it. here because when cohen was on direct, he testified that he falsified invoices that says he said he was it's doing legal work and that's why he was receiving the $35,000 checks he said he testified that he was in fact not doing little work for trump. what would the defense is going to highlight here is they're going to say, wait a second. you were doing some legal work, maybe not directly for the then-president, but for people in and around him. and cohen and also testified that he did not have a formal

retainer agreement, that these invoices were not being submitted pursuant to a retainer agreement. now, retainer agreement is just what you enter into the lawyer. you give them a couple of grand so you know that they are engaged in a relationship with you. they're going to work with you. but here, blanche is pointing out that from the day you went to work for trump, you never had a retainer? freeman, so in no way is that significant? that is upon she is trying to land here. >> right. and that obviously person is very crucial to all of this because it comes down to the accounting and if all suffocation of the actual payment itself, we saw a little bit of this two days ago with blanche saying you've done work outside of just for trump, right? you've done legal work for melania. he asked cohen to say exactly who he had done legal work for. he said, don junior melania's, perhaps even eric trump. now, blanche has mentioning that he had done some legal work for the apprentice. what the argument is going to end? no being is that while michael cohen says he wasn't doing any legal work for trump was he actually doing legal work for the family or for the trump entity at the time and we do know there was at least one contract that

michael cohen has already testified that he had worked on involving melania trump and matt madame tussauds agreement, not sure exactly what the environment was. the wax figure but again, this trial, there's so many different angles. they're diverse exactly, exactly what we got, at least one conduct tract was negotiated by michael cohen at the time, not for donald trump, but for melania trump. >> now the argument is going to be, or the question is going to be whether or not they were other instances where michael cohen was actually doing some legal work, whether it's light work or not, that could have been those payments and stuff. >> and what is the goal of this particular cross, at least as you can try to figure out what it is right now with the jury, was blanche, and he's obviously looking at the clock right now, realizing this day is going to end very soon, as i can see this jury again till monday. so this is where he's choosing to land for the end of the day. >> there's a little bit of me that thinks he might be filibustering to make sure that he is still on cross when this day ends so that the jury will

continue to think about this for the next three days, and then he'll be right back before them on monday because some of this does feel a little duplicative right now. he's gone going through the letter that cohen san to the fec in response to concerns about that $130,000 payment. and we know from his direct prosecutors tried to get out in front of this tuan that he was not completely honest in his response. so this will be flagging and other live, but the total argument about the retainer agreement, this speaks actually we finally get to the falsifying business records the allegation is that trump made these documents be falsified, right? he was in charge of this conspiracy that he forced this to happen, even if you didn't specifically direct it? that is the prosecutors theory of the case. so the defense is rebutting that by saying, well, these were not false. you were doing legal services. you may have been submitting what you, sarah falsified invoices for legal services. but we argue that you were actually conducting legal services. so there was no conspiracy or client did not try to falsify anything. >> then will this is going to

having to meet that burden of proof, right. can you prove that donald trump was involved in this beyond a reasonable doubt? so some of this, even though it seems like it might not be connected, this is todd blanche trying to really needle michael cohen to make him an unreliable witness because he is the only witness that can link donald trump to this. and remember, they only need one sympathetic juror, one person to believe that michael cohen is a liar, that he was lying then or that the case just cant be he proven beyond a reasonable doubt because this is what the entire case hinges on. so even in some of these questions, lines of questioning where we're wondering where's he going with this? >> these are also just opportunity video is that todd blanche is taking to point out that this is not a reliable person and you are supposed to prove beyond a reasonable reasonable doubt that he is not lying just in this one instance. >> all right thank you so much. and more of our special coverage continues as cord is still in session right now. >> and inside the room, how is the jury react? sainted the testimony that pauling christian are going through right now, jury consultant is

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secret war, secrets and spies premier sunday, june 2, attempt bomb cnn and welcome back as we follow a former president trump's hush money trial we have got to talk about the jury perspective here for that. >> let's bring in duree consultant and attorney robert hirshhorn and robert, i wonder what you think about this kind of a defense bombshell that occurred just before the lunch break that really brings into question this approximately 90 minute phone call that michael cohen made to keith schiller, the right-hand man there there of donald trump, where he says that he was explaining to trump the financial resolution of the stormy daniels deal, but now that's very much question. well, i wonder what the jury

would be thinking about this oh, the jury is very clear briana, that that was not honest testimony from michael cohen michael spent a decade lying that help trump and the last couple of years he's been practicing to hurt trump and all his performance today did it accomplish that? >> he's what i call the gloat, the greatest liar of all time. and i'm telling you briana, the jury saw that because that phone call was one of the foundations of the state's case and that part of their house has just crumbled. >> and approximately 90 phone call, i think i may have submitted their i wonder is we are getting these updates. >> the judge is calling court for the de now, cross-examinati on is not over, which means that the defense will continue this means because there is no court tomorrow, robert, this is what the court will sit with

over the weekend. what is the effect of that this is what the jury will sit with. what's the effect? >> yeah. yeah. no, no. it's huge for the jury because the last thing i think of everything that happened today, the only thing they're going to take the is that 92nd phone call with keith? and i'll tell you something else. briana, i've been coming on the show throughout this entire trial and i keep saying, where's alan where's our state better call out because we know they're not. but now now the question is, why doesn't the state called keith if cohen's version of that phone call is true, that he talked about both of them. the state better call keith as one of their witnesses and their case before they rest because if they don't, it's going to create a huge problem for this jury and a bigger problem for the state. >> yeah. allen weisselberg, of course, who handled all financial matters for donald trump. what is the jury think when there's this missing

person, like an allen weisselberg, like a keith schiller, if the prosecution does not establish why they are not calling that person the jury is going to assume that the reason they didn't call them is because they wouldn't help the state's case. they would help the defendant's case. and the defendant luck to all the listeners, you would think, well then why doesn't trump column? i'll tell you why it doesn't come because he has no burden of proof. the burden of proof is on the state to prove their case. they have the burden to call all the relevant witnesses. and here's two relevant witnesses. i don't think they're going to call. i don't think they're going to call allen weisselberg and i don't think they're going to call keith is there a way in the eyes of the jury that you think the prosecution can rehab from this moment with michael cohen so i've heard some pumpkins talking about that i'm with juries all the time. >> i've been doing this over 30 years. i've picked hundreds

and hundreds of juries and all i can tell you is no matter what is explanation is at this point is all it's gonna do is reinforce for the jury that the man is making it up. because remember, briana, he's never said this before. he didn't say it to the grand jury. and here's the other thing this is like the case of the century against the most famous person in the world. you would think the state would turnover every single stone they would read every text message and email. how did they miss this one it's a big problem forum, huge, so they can try to explain it when they come back next week after it's been sunk in the jurors mind all weekend, even though the judge is going to tell them, don't think about it. this case go on with your life, but i'm telling you briana, these jurors are going to think about that 92nd phone call and those 90 seconds are going to really resonate for president trump. >> yeah. and that may be what breaks the case for the prosecution if they continue with rhona, the robert i'm so

sorry. >> robert, were completely out of time and i apologize. i want to hear what you have to save it. we're out of time. robert hirshhorn, really appreciate your input there and for much more of our special coverage of the trump hush money trial ahead stay tuned. that'll come after a quick break. >> you need new replacement windows, but you're just not sure if they're in the budget this year, right? i'm brian garia here with ted koons from renewal by anderson and he's here to talk about how to make window replacement more affordable. >> well, first, brian, you don't have to do them all. you could just replace your worst windows first or another way to make them affordable is to change the style of window. for example, you could do a gliding window instead of a casement we have a lot of ways to make window projects really affordable compared to other window companies, you have a completely different business model. >> yeah, with other companies, there's just too many people involved in the process. >> there's the manufacturer or the seller, and then the installer, and then the customer. >> and if you call with a

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for free visit otter.ai, ai or download the yeah the lead with jake tapper. next on cnn welcome back to our special coverage. >> cord has just ended. jurors are about to have a long weekend to think back on michael cohen's cross-examination and one potentially pivotal moment when the defense attorney, todd blanche, got cohen to admit he didn't fully remember a key phone calls the directly tied donald trump do a hush money payment made to stormy daniel's, michael cohen is going to be back on the stand