the truth. are you the one that the quoted that if i do like that, yeah. so if if not, i'm sure it's a needle pointed on your on your pellet. >> but i think that there is the idea that cross-examination , whether you're the prosecution or the defense, is where the tough questions come. >> this is this is what we do for a living and the reporters on this a panel with a tough questions come, where you get to the truth and so this has been the more friendly version of michael cohen's truth. and now we're going to have the less, the less friendly. >> there's no question. the first thing we're going to wonder is can they rattled him? he has been through trial prep. he has been through murder boarding. they've already gone through what they expect to happen on cross the jury will notice if his tone and demeanor even lenny davis acknowledged that when he sat behind him in that congressional testimony, what he was worried about was that cohen was it's gonna get mad. >> that's a lot maybe was worried that he was going to get angry, lose his temper, and

then lose the confidence of the jury. special live coverage of donald trump's hush money cover up trial continues. >> right now. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here in three hours s you're watching cnn special live coverage of donald trump's first criminal trial. >> i'm wolf blitzer, our nation's capital, laura coates is outside the manhattan courthouse worth today michael cohen laid out once again today the who, the what, and the why behind that payment to silence porn star stormy daniels. he detailed two jurors how the hush money scheme continued after trump became president of the united states talking about a february 2017 meeting he had with trump. and then trump organization, chief financial officer, allen weisselberg, and a set up how trump was going to

pay cohen back for the hush money initially paid stormy daniels, laura yeah. >> and wolf cohen also described the fallout after the fbi raided his properties back in 2018, describing what cohen testified would be his last conversation with trump. it was actually over the phone and quote and cohen, he said to me, don't worry, i'm the president of the united states. there's nothing here everything is going to be okay. stay tough. you're going to be okay. now we know, of course, if he ended up not being okay, i want to turn now to cnn's paula reid and kristen holmes and impala, bring us up to speed about this. >> first of all, for many people in this was his last conversation with trump. >> i mean, that's what 2018 here we are. all that is transpired, making it all the more significant. again that he is coming face-to-face them in a courtroom. >> yeah. this is the second time this year that they have bet in the same courtroom, but this is far more significant because this is a criminal

proceeding and he is arguably the star witness of this case, whether people like it or not, much of this case dress on the testimony of michael cohen and this morning, he brought the jury through those 11 checks that he received each for $35,000, because you submitted false invoices to the trial i've organization and then after that, he walked the jury through sort of how his relationship with trump deteriorated to the point where he became one of the most significant public witnesses against trump and really helped set the wheels in motion for this criminal case. overall, he came across is pretty calm, pretty steady, but i think there are definitely some questions at the jury must have about how many times this man has lied, right? >> he has lied to public. he has lived to the irs as i've said, he's lied to bank c is committed. find out for campaign finance crimes. he has lied so many times in the course of the story that he is told. jurors have to be asking themselves why should i believe you now? and we're about to hear from the defense attorneys

who were going to give them about 1,000 reasons. all along the same theme, which is he hates the defendant that's why you shouldn't believe him because he is out for revenge. of course, the name of one of his books and my ngo kristen, we think about it, that's been the statement that trump has been crafted either himself, prior to having the gag order in place, and certainly the political talking point about this being a political witch-hunt against him. and the person who is driving essentially all of broom is michael cohen in his mind. >> well, that's right. look, remember a 90 paul and i've said this quite a bit, but this is the defense's witness, as well as the prosecution's. they had been planning for this moment, for this cross-examination. they believe that this is actually going to at the end of the day be beneficial to their case if they can get what they want out of michael cohen. now, as you mentioned, he has had a litany of political allies in and out of the courthouse many of them stopped thank to talk at cameras located outside the courthouse. what you are hearing them say over and over again our attacks on michael cohen personally, remember,

they are not under the same gag order that donald trump is donald trump's team is using these surrogates to get messaging out about these witnesses and you're going to continue to hear that whether or not it is people who are find with trump in the legal space or in the political space, the message that they want to drive home when it comes to the court of public opinion, is that michael cohen cannot be trusted and keras canal just got to out of the courthouse. he's been watching the trial throughout and particularly today as we've all been noting, qarrah, he has been measured. he had been reflective throughout yesterday and parts of today, but tell me what you were witnessing in that courtroom. we now saw sidebars happened for the first time today from this team during the testimony we're also seeing notes being passed as well. take us inside the courtroom yeah. >> so michael cohen back on the stand today as you sent his testimony, was measured. it was still even as he was yesterday. so it's giving the narrative for the prosecution of this hush money payment. the repayment to him, and then they spent a good chunk of time

talking about michael cohen's the past lies, his change of opinion while you can said he decided that he had after a conversation with this family that he was going to plead guilty. and from there his relationship with trump had stopped and spoke a lot about the pressure campaign as he put it, that trump put on him when he said that he was now when he was first the fbi first raided his apartment, hotel room, and office in april 2018 up until its decision to plead guilty and then leave either cooperate with investigators while cohen was telling that story about the fbi re describing how at 7:00 a.m. there was a knock on the door. he looked through the people of the hotel room where he was saying because his apartment had been flooded he was looking directly at the jury as he was explaining to them what it was going through. at that moment. and then threw out. he was much more engaged with them. then he was the de before we're has a lot of his focus was directly on the prosecutor answering her

question. so he there's more comfortable relaying a story to the jury about what had happened to him and his experience, and then ultimately his last words under the direct by the prosecution so they're trying to get at all of the issues that the defense is going to bring up at his changing of his story about how he ultimately went on to sell merchandise to have podcasts, to sell books based on donald trump, and they asked me know, are you lying here today? and he said, no, he isn't and they asked him if he had any regrets about working for the trump organization and for this cohen gave both gave two answers. he said that he did have a lot of grabs. he said that he lost his moral compass working for donald trump, lying on his behalf and bullying for him, but he said that he also did really enjoy working at the trump organization. so trying to kind of give that sense to the jury that he's not entirely against donald trump, but that he did enjoy some of his time working for the company. and it's a lot for the

jury. to digest again today, they're very engaged. you see them keeping their eyes on michael cohen, taking notes. there was one moment in the afternoon where some of the politicians that are in court today to support donald trump walked in late and they've walked in as a group in the middle of cohen's testimony. and at that time, i was looking at the jurors so i didn't see any of their eyes divert to what was a bit of a disruption in the courtroom. they seem to keep their focus on cohen and what he was saying and what he was testifying about so they are very engaged as they have been throughout this trial. laura so tell me when you're looking, cara, was how was the judge in terms of controlling the courtroom? >> there were some objections that were offered by the defense during the exam nation, there had been some yesterday. there were some sidebars. alina habba, an attorney who's not on this case, but even previous trump and other matters was also there. tell me about what that was like the judge he has kept control over this

courtroom through out and he had set a rule early on that if there were going to objections, he didn't want what is known as the speaking objection. >> he didn't want the lawyers to start arguing the reasons why something should or shouldn't come in in front of the jury. so that has been the course that this trial has taken and consistently. and so when there were some objections, the judge brought the attorneys up to the bench. she would have a discussion with them that was not something that the jury or the public could hear. and then they would come back and you would either say that the objection was sustained. overruled. or in one case withdrawn. so he has kept this trial moving ahead very efficiently he he seemed to appeal here it a little bit annoyed. he was staring at the politicians when they walked in in the middle of michael cohen's testimony, but he didn't say anything himself to disrupt the proceedings. beings or even to note it in the record. but he has kept pretty firm control over this trial as the de as this morning's session ended, i wish also know and i'm sure you have that. the prosecution has finished their questioning. michael cohen so next up after the

lunch break, it will be cross-examination with trump's attorney, todd blanche, beginning to ask cohen questions of that is expected to be pretty fiery. and i think the question is, will cohen's calm demeanor remain in place as he is being pummeled with questions by trump's lawyers beth million-dollar question well, maybe we can say the four and $20,000 question, paula kristin qarrah. thank you so much. back to you. all laura, thank you. we're going to continue to follow our analysis of all the dramatic developments so far today, our panel of experts is here with us right now, let me start with one of our experts, elie honig, eleia's, you know, michael cohen earlier in the day described an email from robert costello and attorney very close to rudy giuliani at the time. and this is what cohen said. i spoke with rudy. this is what he quoted robert castello is saying. i spoke with rudy very, very positive you are loved if you want to call me, i will give you the details. then he went on to say

sleep well, tonight, you are friends and high places and high places up is this an establishing his place in trump's orbit? >> well, this is an important part of the prosecution story. this is sort of the moral here is he who controls the lawyers, controls the story and what happens. we've seen this with a lot of people who broken ranks from donald trump is there comes that moment of truth and donald trump starts extending sort of the carrot and the stick, right? stay loyal your loved. and by the way, the guy who loves him is at that point the president of the united states who holds pardon power. michael cohen's now under, at that point, under federal investigation. so essentially the deal that's being offered to michael cohen through that email in so many words, is stay loyal and be rewarded or turn and be punished. and michael cohen said, i turned and i dealt with the consequences. >> there was a joint defense agreement at one point. so because there was a joint offense agreement, they were all represented by the same attorneys and and they believe that their goals were all the

same when michael pulled out of that joint defense agreement, there was hell to pay and that was what trump didn't want. and that was what castello didn't want. and that's why he was sweet talking him, saying you know, you're loved by by the boss, right? hard places. right. but he pulled out of it elliott, let's talk a little bit about our cohen's testimony today at one point, he read some of trump's tweets going back, including this, most people will flip if the government lets them out of trouble. >> even if it means lying or making a story, sorry. i don't see it. doing that despite the horrible witch hunt. and the dishonest media, he saw these as messages to him to stay loyal from trump to michael cohen. what do you think the jury will make? >> oh, there's always a tweet wall, really there really is always a tweet, but this afternoon or this morning into the afternoon? it's sort of a tale of two direct examinations of michael cohen what prosecutors spent a lot of the morning doing was getting the dirty stuff about michael cohen

out there preparing the jury for what they would here in variably on cross-examination about cohen's credibility. the other part was stuff like this, which was dirty being up the defendant implicitly in getting out all these statements about the relationship between these two men, the foreign president donald trump and michael cohen. what they were doing was also putting on the record number one, that the defendant has vindictive. the defendant cares a great deal about loyalty. number the defendant goes after his former folks and even implicitly plea threatens people based on their testimony. and it was quite effective because if if the prosecutor had simply asked michael cohen directly, do you believe that the bit defendant the foreign presence? as a threat, do you believe he is whatever else? and he answered the question that would have been likely objected to and thrown out of court. so this was a good way, a subtle way really getting in damaging information about the defendant, really bring data into this, dan, i'm glad you're with us. you've covered congress for a long time and you have a speaker of the house, right now on this date?

other members of congress, republicans taking time out of their very, busy schedules to attend this trial in new york. what's the political point of this? >> because it is such an easy political win for any republican who wants to get right with the trump and for the house speaker he has maybe been praised a little bit too much by democrats recently, voted for by democrats recently and this on the rob politics of it is sort of an easy way for him to say use all of the terms that we've heard. all of these republicans use about the way that they think that this trial trial is unfair. and to actually show up for the former president for the guy who wants to be president it again and who is the effective nominee of their party is pretty easy. and for somebody like mike johnson, remember he's coming off the

heels of not just the vote i talked about, but also doing things that are unforgivable in the eyes of summanen as party like funding the government. speaking out against chaos, ukraine funding ukraine. and so it's, it's kind of a win-win politically, and it gives me what do you think voters are going to? >> are they going to react to see the speaker of the house, mike johnson show up go outside deliver another scathing attack against this. it's legal system. you know, it's trump's peanut gallery, right. and trump always demands supporters when he calls loyalty. and the iteration here he gets from big crowds. and he was apparently complaining that he wasn't getting the crowds he wanted what he got was people coming into the courtroom instead? and there are people of some notoriety. and they walked in late into the courtroom and

that upset the judge apparently, right? elie. i mean, yeah so didn't behave. >> yeah. i don't think this move helps legally whatsoever, if anything. >> first of all, i don't think the jurors probably even recognize folks like jd vance or my job that's it. and if they do by the way, the guy with the security with him, right? speaker of something yeah. >> by the way, manhattan is an overwhelmingly democratic district county. the other thing is if i'm the donald trump's defense team, i don't want the jury thinking about donald trump political being at all. i want them thinking about him as a human being and an individual. so if it was up to me and i will look, they have a right to be there but i wouldn't want them there. >> but it is one of those examples. sorry, glaring. go ahead. no, i was just going to say it's not up to them. it's up to you. yeah. exactly. this is one of those examples like several points along on this trial that we've seen, like pushing stormy daniel's, asking questions much longer and in the cross-examination, then maybe you would have if you were an attorney for the former president. this is one of those

examples of when he wants the political communications and strategy. two supersede everything else. >> good point. everybody stand by. when court resumes in about an hour or were told they're on a lunch break right now. we'll be there. offenses turned to question the fixer turn felon michael cohen his claims are central to the charges against the former former president donald trump and what he says under cross-examination could potentially make or break the prosecution's case don't go anywhere. special live coverage of donald trump's hush money, criminal trial continues, right after this every piece of evidence tells a story how we really haven't just the oh, martin, sunday's at night on cnn power e trades award-winning trading app makes

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special coverage of donald trump's hush money trial. court is now in a break for lunch when it resumes in a little while, that offense is expected to begin cross-examining trump's former lawyer and so-called fixer, michael cohen. see you in an anchor kaitlan collins has been inside the courtroom all morning. i know you just walked out that caitlin give us some initial observations yeah. >> well, if it was really remarkable how that ended with michael cohen obviously still getting the direct questions from the prosecution there. they spent probably the last 30 to 45 minutes really fronting all of his baggage every everything that they know that todd blanche trump's attorney is about to use when he gets up there too cross-examine michael cohen. they were walking through his guilty pleas to the southern district of new york, the as he asked for a reduction in his sentence, the money that he's made off his podcast and his books, ever since everything happened and the related mission trip between him and donald trump completely

deteriorated, they really were trying to get ahead of all of that. his meetings with stormy daniel's with someone that he met when he invited her on his podcast, they'd never we're actually had a conversation in person before and they are essentially trying to thwart everything that they know. todd blanche is going to get up there and asked michael cohen about starting with every day he has been saying in recent weeks about donald trump and about this trial. >> and there were several moments in there where you really listen to michael cohen at the end donald trump, i was paying attention to him, had his eyes closed for most of michael cohen's testimony, it doesn't mean he's asleep. >> he just kinda taste this moment where you almost pretends like what's happened happening isn't actually happening. >> and there was this moment right at the end when the prosecutor was asking michael cohen if we regret it, kind of how intertwined he's been with donald prompt. >> he said he didn't regret working for the trump organization, but he said that what he regrets is keeping the loyalty and the things that he referenced in donald trump asked me to do my go cohen said i violated my moral compass and i suffered the penalty as has

my family. i'm michael cohen's wife was seated on the right side of the courtroom they listening to this. she was also there yesterday as he first took the witness stand and michael cohen has really kind of taking the jury inside wolfe, what it was like when his and donald trump relationship broke down, when he did have his home and his hotel room and his office rated by the fbi. and what that looked like and he was walking through the fear that he felt the pressure campaign to stay in the fold with donald trump to have a trump allied attorney using terms that almost seems more like something you would here in a case of a mob boss of staying in the folds, then you would with the former president of the united states who is seated right there at the defense table. it was quite remarkable wolf to see the jury kinda be walked through his entire relationship with donald trump from when they met yesterday, two when it completely broke down and that last phone call, they had a few

days after the fbi raided all of his properties and caitlin, what else are you hearing about the trump team's coming? >> cross-examination of michael cohen is expected to begin in a little while. >> it's going to begin any moment wolf, as soon as they get back inside that courtroom, that is when we do expect todd blanche to get up, he stood up right at the end when susan hoffinger the prosecutor, said she had no further questions, and then the judge said, no, let's look sick. it's time to take the break for lunch and so it is going to be brutal i think they are going to try to eviscerate him to undermine everything he said, to turn his credibility and all of his even tone that he had during the last dana and half of his testimony, the yes, ma'am. the no mames that he had for the prosecution, they're going to try to turn that on its head and i expect that the cross-examination, it certainly will not finish today unless everything has completely changed from the trump's defense team's plan a. but it is going to be quite lengthy, able i'm sure it will be the

expected to be quite intense as well. >> you reported from inside the court, kaitlan, that the judge judge merchan, looked visibly annoyed as trump's republican entourage from congress re-entered in the middle of michael cohen's testimony, talk to us a little bit about that moment yeah this judge does not give away much. he has a very even tone in greece, donald trump with a good morning, mr. trump. every single day that he watson the courtroom, and he certainly every time trump's attorney objects, he brings them up there. he hears their concerns. but there was this moment and i've been watching the judge very closely the times that i've been privileged to be inside the courtroom and his demeanor as the questioning is going on, and we saw him looking visibly uncomfortable during the story game and heels testimony when that was initially going on. and there was this moment where when there's a break everyone gets ten to 15 minutes to go out to the hallway, go to the restroom. trump in his whole entourage leaves prosecutors and their whole team leaves.

and they both returned to the courtroom. trump returned without multiple of those lawmakers and doug burgum, the governor or north dakota, in tow with him. and we just thought they weren't coming back in the room because the court began the questioning, started and it was basically silent inside the courtroom. and then a little while lynne, we heard the door open it wasn't just one person coming in and out. it was five or six people from trump's team walking down that center aisle and they're not just sliding into a back row wolf, they get into the second row of the entire courtroom to sit in the pews, to listen to what's happening in the dej stared straight at them as they were walking in. it was vivek ramaswamy congressman byron donalds, congressman cory mills, governor doug burgum, a spokesperson for the trump campaign he used to work inside the trump white house and he looked visibly annoyed wolf because michael cohen was in the middle of a line of questioning and he was answering. and the jury, from kara scannell, what she going see a few of them she said they

didn't seem to look over to watch the entourage coming in. >> but you saw the judge basically staring straight at them as they were walking in and way because it seemed disruptive to the proceedings every time i've been there, i've never seen a large group of people come in and sit at the front of the courtroom while the witnesses on the stand testifying and was the speaker of the house, mike johnson part of that entourage? >> no. so speaker mike johnson, you this was something that was reported this morning. he was planning to come and support donald trump in court. i believe he spoke to reporters outside of the courtroom while i was there's inside the courtroom. i unless he is coming in in this afternoon session in both sessions this morning, even though there was one brief break, i never saw the house speaker mike johnson inside the room and i was seated quite close to to trump's sayyed and to all of the people that come in with and it was quite a few people today, probably the most we've seen since this trial started, wolf, very interesting. caitlin thank you so much for your observations. we appreciate it very much. meanwhile, and appeals court has just denied

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learned a new york appeals court has just denied the former president's latest attempt. to overturn the judge's gag order against him for boron this and other important issues. we're joined now by the former us district court judge shira scheindlin, judge, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. first of all, what's the reaction to this decision? two, once again, deny trump's lawyers request to remove the gag order i'm really not surprised. they praised judge merchan for getting it right and for properly weighing first amendment rights against the possible harm to the jury and to the witnesses. so they did what i expected they would do as you know, several high-profile go ahead i missed what you said. i was going to say trump has trump has figured out a work around anyway, because he has his surrogates saying all the things that he can say. >> yeah. now on that point, that's a good point. several high-profile republicans,

including the speaker of the house, mike johnson, were there in new york to support trump. this morning, i want to give your reaction to some of what he said about michael cohen. listen to this this is a man who, has clearly on a mission for personal revenge and who is widely known as a witness who has trouble with the truth he is someone who has a history of perjury and as well known for no one should believe a word he says today as you know, the gag order prevents trump from speaking about witnesses or the jurors, but his ally certainly can. is this just a way for trump to get around that gag order? >> absolutely is an obvious work around. and what the speaker just said is exactly what trump would say if he could say it nothing rising what the speaker's mean, can this show of force of trump's supporters, including the speaker of the house of

representatives inside the courtroom could it impact the jury? >> i don't think so. the juror is not the jury is not supposed to be listening to this, and they know their or they will know shortly that indeed cohen was convicted of perjury. cohen is at now against trump. there's no secrets there, there's nothing new that the speaker said. in fact, it's in that sense, it's accurate he's been convicted of perjury and he's now testifying against trump i'm just wondering what your thought is it appropriate for the speaker of the house of representatives ? >> second in line to the presidency, even show up at a criminal trial like this. >> of course, it's not appropriate. and i suppose it started in line. we have the vice president, but in any event, no, it's not appropriate for the speaker of the house to be doing that. i was quite surprised that he did that, but people say, well, the democrats have been praising and was time for him to take back the republicans base yeah, you're right. the vice president is

the first in line. the speaker of the house is the second in line if something happens to the president so the speaker is the second line, judge bershka, and look visibly annoyed as trump's allies re-entered the courtroom right in the middle of michael cohen's testimony, how disruptive is this? and is there anything the judge can actually do i think it's very disruptive to have a group walk in the middle of testimony and walked to the front and have special seats set aside from them. >> but there's not much the judge could do because if he raises it, it only draws attention to who's there and the jury may not have even noticed two, they were are know who they were. they just saw some guys coming in. so why i agree with the judge and not doing anything about it at the time that his testimony, michael cohen tried to make it clear that trump knew all about the hush money payments that were ongoing. trump's signature is on the checks, is for reimbursement. what as

cohen's testimony definitively shown that trump committed a crime based on everything we've heard so far. >> well, i think that his testimony as corroborated by the documents certainly shows that trump was aware that there were payments being made and that the business records would be falsified to pretend that those payments for legal services, which of course he knew they were not. but the key he is turning the misdemeanor into a felony so is it true that trump was aware that this was a violation of the federal campaign finance law. and that's the underlying crime that has to be proved to turn it into a felony is actually a violation of the new york election law, but by unlawful means and the unlawful means is the federal campaign vile campaign finance law. so, so it's complicated, it's congo amid it's very complicated.

>> they certainly have their work cut out for him. a judge, shira scheindlin. thanks. as usual for joining us thank you caitlin, back to you thanks. walls. and we've got paula reid and kristen holmes here with me outside the courthouse is we are waiting getting on the defense to begin their cross-examination of michael cohen. ultimately, what could be one of those pivotal moments of this entire case. and obviously the defense has been i'm prepared for this. they knew michael cohen is going to be the star witness here. you can see todd blanche trump's attorney the entire time, michael kohler is on the stand kind of lean forward, taking copious notes and watching intently as michael cohen was testifying, prepare it for how they're going to start there. cross. >> yeah. in many ways, the cross-examination of michael cohen is the defense in this case because there were only expected to call a few witnesses. blanche has been preparing for this for weeks or even months. i think the greatest challenge for todd blanche, it's two-fold. one is what do you include and what do you exclude? i know there were hundreds of pages in terms of

the preparation that they had ready to go for this there's a call it down to what's really going to make their case and break that of the prosecution. the other challenges you want to go hard here, mostly because you have some really important points to make. also, you want to appease your client, but you don't want to go so hard that you throw sympathy to michael cohen because he is, you could go a couple of different ways. it can be quite charming for me. it can be sympathetic. we also know he can kinda lose his cool on the standard or cross-examination, which is what happened in the civil trial that they referenced during the prosecutors derived. so this is it's going to be arguably the most significant afternoon of the entire case. christian, the jury is basically expressionless. >> it's so hard to read and to discern how they're taking in certain pieces of information. there were moments earlier today when i was watching michael cohen turn toward towards the jury as he was answering certain questions. >> you know at the end, he was saying he didn't regret working for the trump organization, but he regretted lying on trump's behalf to benefit trump.

>> be forgotten bullying people to a dv outcomes and kinda talking about really what was his main task for donald trump for the last several years that he worked for him? yeah. what he was hired to do, one of the things that we've talked about as i've donald trump has this very complex located relationship with attorneys because he mostly wants them to act like michael cohen did. and michael cohen was willing to do that. now we know one of the things that the defense is going to bring up. probably pretty quickly is how much michael cohen himself has benefited from his dislike of donald trump. he has built an entire brand around that for the last seven years. so how does that actually line up with the michael cohen that we just saw in court in front of the jury saying he regretted it, but there were some good time this earnest person, and then you're going to have these social media clips of him just eviscerate donald trump going after him on every front saying essentially that he hates him and that he hoped something happens to him. now all of this is going to be presented to the jury. and as you noted, caitlin, at the end of the day,

these are the men and women who are going to determine in this entire case, do they believe michael cohen now or do they believe the defense, which is likely to say he lived to you then why wouldn't he be lying to you now, what he's also been on tiktok trash the attorneys and trump's attorneys who were sitting there, todd blanche susan necheles. i don't know if he's gone after a meal. beauvais, but the tiktoks i've seen, he's gone after the attorneys, but even as they tried to undermine him get him off balance, paula, there were at the beginning of this today was when they gotten to the part of why we are wherever when sitting in that courtroom, which is they are walking through each the checks that he got from donald trump and where he would send an invoice to allen weisselberg from the trump organization and every check said, you know, this is for the retainer for legal services rendered and michael cohen testified it was a false this is document because there was no retainer and there were no legal services that were rendered on his behalf. it was reimbursement for the money that he paid to stormy daniels. >> that was a really important thing that happened this morning right before we got into the more difficult subjects for colin, they walked

through those checks once again, we've already been through those have to accounting officials from the trump organization and i do expect that the defense is he going to have to go through those the same way, michael cohen did with prosecutors, but they're question is going to be about trump's involvement. they're going to remind cohen that he submitted the falsified invoice he received this check and did he have any evidence that trump was aware of this alleged scheme to falsify business records. they're going to really press him on that to get more specific and try to undercut the idea that somehow michael cohen has made the prosecutor's case and provided evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt, trump who's aware that they were going to falsify business records to reimburse him and there are also several moments where michael cohen, i mean, he was he was talking about what it was like to have the fbi come and rage his house. and it was staying in an apartment because it helps us under renovation. his office at that time, the room was so silent, you could just hear everyone's keyboards clicking as everyone was typing exact quotes from what michael cohen was saying. as he was

talking about how he was scared. he was frightened, he was angry the day that he pleaded guilty to his crimes to the southern district of new york. he said it was the worst day hey, of his life. he all have seen to strike this if not a sympathetic figure, but certainly someone who is this narrative that we all know is someone who gets caught up in trump's world. and then as a result of it ends up in a courtroom like the one that trump is in right now. >> yeah, absolutely. i think that there was a compelling part of his narrative as he went through the store all right. >> but i also think that he walked through his falling out with donald trump, which was also part of this that was so interesting. him essentially holding on to who is loyalty with the former president's something that we know is really important to him, talking about how he at some point stopped talking to him after that one phone call was the last time they ever spoke and then he started having to go through costello, who was going through giuliani and getting farther and farther away from the former president. >> but as you note that this is not the only person who has suffered from this face hey,

who has gotten this close to donald trump and then ended up in legal peril. >> this is something that happens to quite a few of these people. i'm one of the things we've been talking about all morning is this idea that despite this donald, trump showed up today at court with a huge entourage of political politicians political leaders, some of his sadly, them all knowing what happens to people who often get to close donald trump. >> yeah, it's a remarkable moment and i mean, obviously we know what the defense is expected to do and we know it's expected to last for quite some time. >> we're going to be following it all closely as court this set to resume any moment now with michael cohen is going back on the witness stand. >> but what's different this time is who is going to be questioning him? it will now be the defense in their chances. mr. cross-examined michael cohen. you're watching cnn's special live coverage fashion

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123. >> i, hanako montgomery in tokyo. and this is cnn welcome. back to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial in new york. >> before wrapping for the lunch break or the prosecution ended its direct questioning of michael cohen by asking if he regrets his past association with trump. cohen's response and i'm quoting i regret doing things for him that i should not have lying, bullying people in order to effectuate a goal. i don't regret working with the trump organization. as i expressed before some very interesting great times. but to keep the loyalty and to do the things that he asked me to do. i've violated by moore moral compass, and i suffered the penalty as has my family close quote our panel of experts is where this an lea let's talk about that. what do you think of that edition from michael

cohen? well, i think it's a smart way to end the direct examination you want to bring the jury to the present woman, and you want to present in this case the cooperating witness, essentially as somebody who did bad things in the past recognizes it now, and it's taken account. the prosecution end their questioning with that because it brings them up to this moment here, we are presented to you that michael cohen when of may 2024. not that michael cohen. that you've heard about that matters of 2016, 2017, it's a fairly common and i think effective way to end and isn't it correct me if i'm ron, but isn't it also preparing for what the prosecution is expecting after lunch, which is the cross-examination, the trump defense team questioning, every single part of his story because he has been convicted convicted of various crimes. yeah. exactly. they're trying to sort of dissipate and preempt that. and what they want to present. michael cohen to the jury as somebody who's had a change in his life, a change in his approach, in his moral compass, todd blanche should attorney you know, you

worked with him when he was assisted us attorney working with you in new york? he's going to lead the cross-examination. yeah, i should say i worked alongside todd blanche and alvin bragg, who's now the day we're all there at the same time. todd is a soft-spoken person for the sdny. >> some of us you may have heard and to be the southern district southern district of new york and to be charged confident are charged todd is a modest person. he soft-spoken but don't mistake that for any sort of weakness in the courtroom. he was the chief of the gangs and violent crime unit at the southern district of new york. and when the moment comes and this will be a moment, i expect them to go at michael cohen, no punches there's something so fundamental about in cross-examination. >> there's a big difference between the question mr. cohen, where were you on tuesday? the open-ended friendly question. and mr. cohen, on tuesday, you are committing a crime brian, and when the questions like that, the pointed leading questions that are allowed on cross not allowed on direct

really start very quickly. even the most dismal one witness can get flustered, rattled, and lose their and i ask a question of the attorneys here which does remorse play into this because dot cohen has been full of remorse. every answer is, i'm sorry, i did this. i made a mistake i hurt my family. i'm not sorry. i worked for the trump organization, but i'm sorry about bullying people about lying to people. every single answer had that in it. the remorse was oozing out of michael cohen. and does that matter? >> sure. there is no doubt that he's being sincere. dear. there, that he feels he heard his family, that he lied to many. there's no question about that. he very well might be, however, he also has a long string of criminal convictions alongside string of against the defendant, which the defense can confront him with. now, it's up to the jury in the slurry of ideas they have about a witness to really decide well, what do we really

believe? did we really trust this guy? and the way we shouldn't, yes, i think he's telling the truth, but was he lying back there already lied. so it's complex, but again, and as we've talked about before witnesses, i pardon me, defendants can still be convicted over the testimony of very complex and very trouble it's interesting because so far michael cohen has been measured very quiet and in a sense, which hasn't lost his temper. those of us who know you and he's quiet to be not really shy, but kenny, continue that kind of demeanor during what's going to be very brutal cross-examination. >> that is that's the question. that's gonna be the challenge because there's no question that that is what's coming at him after they finish their lunch break. and i mean, i'm just thinking as you said, the word remorse, gloria, i'm thinking in my head, i'm sort of playing out if the defense attorney attorney if you're remorseful, why was your book called revenge? i'm remorse.

exactly exactly. i may are ways to get isn't that what you're doing here when and things like that? the one thing that we haven't talked about is what, matters to. the. jury beyond what michael cohen says, which is the receipts? >> yeah. >> and that's going to be ultimately i think that tell with michael cohen, who do they believe he has been covered? rob aerated enough that they can take the leap of faith in his order in the whole object of the prosecution's case up to now, the de and-a-half of direct examination is trying to narrow that gap that they need we'll call to carry the jury across and things like that, checks the handwritten notes, the emails, the phone records, all of those help because they just nudge it a little more sure. i think i can take this guy's word for it. but ultimately, if you have to boil down the crux of this case, what i think the jury is going to be deciding is, can we credit michael cohen to get us over that homer? demeanor during cross-examination for sure is going to be very, very subtle about this this morning. >> but but the fact that allen weisselberg is not there and he's at rikers he's the guy

who wrote the receipt. okay. he's the guy who wrote the nazis, a guy you could call them the mastermind of all of this, right? because he figured out how to pay hey, how to pay michael cohen bak, how to account for the taxes had to give them his bonus. and he's not there serving jail tower right now. so here's the former natural officer of the trump organization. so isn't that a large problem? there's a legal question that they are certainly fighting about behind the scenes over whether they can or should call michael cohen. and we haven't allen weisselberg and we've not heard the end of that year. we shall see what happens on that front, but it's a good point. >> you're making, gloria. thank you, everybody. stand by. the cross let's examination of michael cohen is just a few minutes away. a chance for donald trump's defense team to try to undermine the compelling testimony from today and yesterday we'll discuss that in more after a quick break russia were trying to spy on us. >> we were spying on them in this hadi friday this is a war

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this is guilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, it has the designers that get your heart racing had inside a prices every day, hurry, they'll be gone in a flash. >> designer sales that up to 70% or so of guilt.com today welcome to, cnn's especial live coverage. >> we are now just moments away from what is expected to be the most contentious testimony in the hush money criminal trial of former president donald trump. i'm kaitlan collins outside that courthouse and new york along with wolf blitzer and washington. and when court resumes shortly, the fence attorneys specifically todd blanche trump's lead attorney on this case, will begin to

cross examine the prosecution's star witness. that is trump's former fixer and his personal attorney, michael cohen and wolf, it promises to be interesting to say the least it should be very, very intense. that's what we're all bracing for katelyn now, this is the second day cone has been on the scan answering prosecutors questions so far over a total of eight hours, he directly linked donald trump to the hush money payments to stormy daniels detailing how the alleged scheme continued after trump took the white house joining us now cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig elie, bring us up to speed. first of all, our cohen's testimony so far today, and whether it makes the prosecution's upcoming case even more difficult. well, off the prosecution has now completed its direct examination of michael cohen, the star witness. >> now a couple of really important points that came through in his direct testimony this morning. first of all, cohen testified about this crucial meeting that happened in february of 2017. now, this

is about three weeks after donald trump becomes president michael cohen at this point, has paid stormy daniel's $130,000, essentially out of his own pocket, but he has not yet been reimbursed first, and michael cohen told us about a crucial conversation that he had with donald trump in the oval office. he said i was sitting with president trump and he asked me if i was okay. he asked me if i needed money and i said no. all good. he saidecause i can get a check. i said no, i'm okay. this is the most important part. he donald trump said all right, just make sure you deal with alan, meaning allen weisselberg, the cfo, in order to get those reimbursements which brings us to the documents michael cohen went through for the jury some key documents, including this page of handwritten notes by allen weisselberg that shows exactly how they calculated the amount that michael cohen would be reimbursed the $420,000 it breaks down into reimbursement for stormy daniel's another expense plus enough money to enable michael cohen to pay his

taxes. and michael cohen talk the jury through one-by-one, the checks that he was then issued, some of them signed by donald trump for $35,000 each, one per month for about a year. now this is really important. prosecutors also walk michael cohen methodically through the invoices. and if you want to see the prosecution's case in one word, it's right here. retainer, these payments were not listed as hush money payments or anything like that. they were labeled as retainers, legal fees, and the prosecution's theory is that's the fraud right there. that's the falsification of business records. now, the prosecutors concluded the morning by getting into michael cohen's baggage. they talked about the fact that he has pled guilty to testifying falsely to congress. he went in front of congress in 2017 and he minimize donald trump's efforts to build a tower in moscow and cohen testified that the reason he gave that false testimony, he said because i was staying on mr. trump's message that there was no russia russia.

russia. now, to conclude the story, michael cohen is subject to an fbi search in april of 2018, and that's when the relationship really starts to fall apart and ultimately, michael cohen when talked about how he pled guilty in federal court to four different crimes. one, campaign finance violations that relates to the stormy daniel's payments and payments that karen mcdougal to false statements to congress. that's what we just talked about with trump tower moscow. and then finally tax fraud and bank fraud relating to his own individual businesses. prosecutors want to put this so in front of the jury before the defense cross happens. of course, defend the defense team is going to argue that this shows michael cohen has a long history of dishonesty and fraud. so wolfe, when we go back into the court, the defense for donald trump will be cross-examining michael cohen and this really this afternoon, will be the moment of truth in this trial. >> you're absolutely right. elie honig. excellent explanation patient. >> thank you very, very much. and caitlin, back to you yeah. >> wolf, certainly, moment of truth is a good way to put i'm

sure that's not how the defense will frame, and i'm back here with kristen holmes and paula reid is we're outside the courthouse waiting on michael going to retake that witness stand. i can't even imagine what this lunch break is like for michael cohen or for talks i blend fairly for that matter is they're both preparing for a pivotal moment for both of them. paula, the other thing that michael cohen was really getting into as he was finishing his time with the prosecution was the pressure campaign that he faced in those days after he had had everything in his home, his apartment, his hotel room, rated and he was attached to this, introduced to bob castello, who's this attorney that was allied with donald trump and rudy giuliani. we were seeing the emails from bob casella, to michael cohen that we're really notable. i get saying that he could be a back channel basically to donald trump because my friend referring to rudy giuliani, my friends client it's very clear when bomb casella was trying to communicate to michael cohen? >> yeah. stay in the fold, which ultimately didn't happen. and rob kusto, longtime

attorney of rudy giuliani, trump, attorney, is just one of these trump-world characters. they just keep showing up in every story and it's just about a year ago right before trump was indicted that is a defense surprised a lot of people buy calling rob costello to try to undercut the credibility of michael cohen because he was testifying about his time representing cohen. and he said that, look, cohen told me that the whole hush money scheme was his idea notably, costello is not being called to testify for the defense castula told me he was quite surprised that he was not being called two once again, under cut michael cohen's credibility here in the trials since he was their sole witness during the grand jury proceedings. but a lot is transpired in the last year, including costello and rudy giuliani specifically asking trump to help pay costello for some of the legal work that he had done for rudy giuliani. that hasn't happened yet, and that is one theory about why he's not here like the other theory is joe taka pino is the defense lawyer. he was leading things back when costello was called. now, it's todd blanche and he just doesn't seem to think that costello is

necessary for their case. >> and christian, there's these moments where were they the sidebars and the court. you can't actually hear what the defense and the prosecution and the judge are discussing, and you're not allowed to use your product is to look at them. i've tried to do it and they were de of told bolted really you can't do that because they're having a sidebar moment. and in that moment, we've now learned from the transcript what the prosecution and was saying to justice marshall and the judge here was that michael cohen is their last witness, and then todd blanche responded and said he expects the cross-examination of michael cohen to not only go for this afternoon, but until the end of day on thursdays shows just how long they plan on keeping michael cohen on the stand. yeah. i mean, this is one thing that we've been talking about and all of trump's legal advice as i say, the same thing. >> they plan on completely taking michael cohen apart if they can, they have been going through his book which is called revenge. biggest lee's talking about revenge with donald trump. they've gone through as podcasts is social media posts. we saw a little bit of a preview with this, the stormy daniels talking about. do you hate donald trump? those

are going to be the kinds of questions that they ask of michael cohen. the other part of this is going to be whether or not he financially benefited in the last seven years from his dislike of donald trump or from taking donald trump on one of the things that we know is e appear to be making money even just off of his tiktoks during this trial, the little button that said you can donate here if you want to help me while he was delivering these speeches ranting about various things. he this has been a core part of michael cohen's brand and you can imagine that todd blanche has been really going through everything, not just social media, but really just as testimony with a fine tooth comb making sure that he crosses all of his ties, dots, all of his eyes as he proceeds to attack michael cohen. >> and what does it say polo, that michael cohen is the last witness because there was a question of whether or not they'd call someone else. michael cohen, they're saying this is it. this is a last one for us and then the defense will have their moment it's something that even trump world sources right now, who were pretty objective about this case are texting me saying, oh,

my god, how is it possible that prosecutors don't have someone else that they can sandwich around cohen. >> did button this up. is this what you were going to leave the last part of the prosecution's case in the jurors minds, he was always expected that they wouldn't end with cohen that he would come three-quarters of the way in. so the fact that prosecutors are not even a call their summary witness after cohen, that is a surprise. it speaks to their confidence in cohen's performance here, but they also, there is no other witnesses lined up to call. it's a decision will it pay dividends? we'll see after the verdict, trump had a noticeable reaction that was very different to michael cohen. then it has been to stormy daniels when stormy daniels was on the stand, he was actually paying attention, his eyes weren't closed for really long periods of time with michael coe was on the stand, his eyes are basically closed. the entire time and there was a moment where he shook his head and talk to one of his attorneys after michael cohen said they made 4 million after donald trump became president and he was his personal attorney outside the white house. that was another moment

where the prosecution was trying to get ahead of michael cohen making money off of this. >> but made the point that stormy daniels did and i should note, donald trump is walking inside the courtroom right now. there is an attorney right behind him who's going to be the one questioning michael calmer. he gets back on the stand, but but it seemed to make the point that he was trying to make what stormy daniels said. yes, i've benefited from our relationship with donald trump, but it's also cost me a lot. >> yeah, i will tell you there's not much that makes donald trump more mad than people. he doesn't like? or does it get along with making money off of his name, which of course i'm sure you know as well. >> i think what's been interesting is the donald trump has really tried to keep his composure during this testimony in a way that he wasn't able to stormy daniels in a way that he's been briefed, is critically important during this testimony, his lawyers have told him they do not want it to look as though michael cohen is getting underneath his skin because they believe that that will empower him. >> they want to rattle michael cohen if michael cohen is getting under donald trump's skin, that doesn't rattle michael cohen. that would just career chap. this is something

they've told him now it seems up until this point, it's actually listened to them keeping his eyes closed, keeping disengaged, not cursing under his breath and elbowing is attorneys office from stormy daniels is attorney told us last night she could hear trump as you if she could hear him cursing, but she could hear him responding to her testimony. just a remarkable that the from the witness stand, it's not that far from where donald trump is sitting. and right now, we are michael cohen to get back on the witness stand any moment you just hold trump returned to the courtroom. prosecutors have also just returned. that means the judge, the jury, and the witness, michael cohen, our next stay with cnn special live coverage back in moments welcome to stormy heights. we're the windows are always pellet pelvis fiberglass is the

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select ak system battery tools real still find yours. i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon. >> and this is cnn welcome back to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial are legal and political experts are back with the right now. danielle, let me start with you. where do you think trump's defense? let's team is going to start right now with the cross-examination. >> the jugular now, i mean, i don't know the attorneys can obviously talk about the various strategies and which way they think that the attorneys are going to go. but we do know that of all of the witnesses that have been up there the only one that can comes close to the kind of witness that the defendant the former president, wants to just kind of go at in the hardest way possible stormy daniels,

that is demon come close to it, how he feels about michael cohen and it's funny because when the prosecution was delivering their case, particularly earlier today, they gave a hint as to the state of mind that trump was in based on the message that robert costello, who was giuliani is attorney, sent and other people and also the tweet that donald trump scent warning about how trump would feel about michael cohen if common turned on trump so now we have not that we actually needed to see what happened real time. and trump's real feeling real time. but now we really have the evidence and the jury has the evidence in their minds about trump's absolute the fact that he is clearly seething at what is happening, that's an important point. la did the prosecution do enough to convince the jury that trump actually broke the law? my falsifying documents? yes. if

the jury believes michael cohen, i think they did bridge that gap and the key pieces of testimony we just talked about this or where for michael cohen says, i met with donald trump. i explain to him how this retainer setup was going to work. trunk knew what i was talking about and he agreed to it. so it's all going to come down to credibility and i'm sort of eagerly watching our feet here to see how they open up the cross-examination of michael cohen. i think the first place they go is dana said the jugular. the jugular is credibility here. i think they've plenty to work with in terms of his prior leinz is prior guilty pleas. other leinz these told it's interesting as this cross-examination is about to begin, trump was flipping through the stack of papers and chatting with his attorney, emil bove as cohen walked by, everybody stand by. i want to go back to caitlin. caitlin, you have a special interview. i want to i want you to share with our viewers yeah, wolf, of course, we have seen entourage of donald trump's allies in court with him today, joining me now is one of those who was there. >> i want to donald trump supporters that as the governor

of north dakota, doug burgum, who also ran for the republican nomination. i should note governor, i saw you in court earlier today. i was a few rows back better seat than me. just tell me this is your first in court. i believe what did you make your few hours that you were in there well, caitlin died. >> i think it's good to see firsthand what the american public believes, which is this? trial is really politically motivated. and i think that's showing up in the american people in the polls that are coming out with president trump leading by a wider margins than he's ever lead in any of this it's presidential races because i think they see right through, they see right through this thing when you've got a judge that donated to joe biden when you've got prosecutors that supported joe biden, when you've got the judge's family members that are benefiting financially as democrat operatives and then when you've got, as you just said, on the lead in this whole trial rests on the credibility of someone who spent three hours this morning describing a great

detail how we lied to a grand jury, how we lied to congress, and how we lot in in court cases. and so this is it's just a tough thing. i've prosecution's got a tough job to try to build their case on someone who's a serial perjure the one thing that sitting there listening to michael cohen testify, which is of course a you're referring to. >> i mean, donald trump hired michael cohen for everything that you just said. i mean, that is the person that donald trump chose to be he has his personal attorney well, i think yes, that's true that you did hire them, but i think that you'll win the cross-examinati on you're going to come out. >> you heard a glimpse of it this morning that michael cohen leverage the title that he had. he wasn't even doing work for president trump. and he was signing up clients left and right at $4 million in revenue, leverage that. i mean, so that i think for most people that just comes across as someone who is again, trying to make money off of the president's

celebrity or the president's position? position, and not someone that really ever maybe how it as best interests in mind you just noted that the judge is it has been a democratic donor. >> i believe it was to the tune of $35 and then you also mentioned his daughter and her political work that was something also that the former president heatedly attacked him for an attacked her four on social media until his gag order that he's under right now was expanded to include members of the judge's family and also members of the prosecution's family, did donald trump asked you to come out and criticize the judge's daughter no, not whatsoever. >> and i'm here completely as a volunteer. i'm here because i care about future of this country and where it's going. but i think it's fine if someone wants to be a democratic operative and make millions of dollars, but it's been a simple thing. i mean, there's hundreds and hundreds

of judges in manhattan, just recuse yourself. if you're a judge who's got a family member that's making money off of controversies like this. i think the public and justice would be better served if mean it would be a simple thing just to recuse yourself. there's no issue with someone being operative. the issue he was governor, he asked whether or not he should recuse himself from this after trump it and the legal team made a motion for him to do so and he was told that he did not need to recuse himself, that he didn't have any conflict of interests that prevented him from overseeing this trial. i mean, you were inside that court this morning. did he seem fair to you i think that it was we saw a prosecution. >> this morning one question after another, leading the witness. and i think anybody that was there, i can see that was well scripted and well rehearsed. i think everybody feels like people that know michael cohen are seeing a different michael cohen, but it's not really what's going on. i'm standing here on the

street and i'm looking at this massive press in both directions going out there and i'm thinking to myself, wow, does the outcome of this case effect any americans that are facing joe biden's inflation that are trying to figure out how to put food on the table and gas in their car or pay their electricity bill and no, and that's why it doesn't help solve the issue with china, doesn't help solve the issue with the wars that are the proxy wars are written with russia and iran and those are the issues that people really mad about and they're mad about, they care about it, and their voters are voting. in these polls are showing that. and yet, the world's attention is on paperwork trial that at its best in the world where i came from business, this would have been a non-material classification error at best, it might have been tried it a misdemeanor, but even still today, there's been no real connection to a crime that's happened. and without a crime, there's no felonies there's no wrongdoing. and so without that, people just have to say, hey, let's just seems very,

very political. and if this really matter, why are they bringing this case now versus not seven years ago when these payments were made? >> i'm glad that you cited your history because you do have a long history and the world of business that was a big credential when you when you ran in this republican race, i mean at the heart of this is falsifying business records and i assume that you do not agree that falsifying business his records is okay? that that is a legal. do you acknowledge that well, i acknowledged that non-disclosure agreements which are at the heart of this thing, there are common and they're legal and what's a dispute is if you're paying a legal expenses and you call them legal expenses, is that a misclassification? >> so even that's it. a dispute right now. and if it were if somebody other than donald trump, this case would have never been brought because a misclassification like that, that has no harm to to any citizen in new york at best. like i said, would have been a misdemeanor and at worst would have been never charged. so it

is just seems amazing to me that somehow they've been able to transform this with magic and 34 felonies. i've never seen that my business career well, michael cohen testified that this was these are false business records that he wasn't paid any retainer because he wasn't doing any legal services. >> so because nothing from to be paid for is that it was just reimbursement for hush money that he paid to a porn star, which he said he did so to protect donald trump's chances of winning the 2016 election. governor that's really what's at the heart of this. i think in all after being in that room today, and jury was seated did their to your right, don't you believe this case should be a lub-dub to those 12 jurors inside the room to decide whether or not donald trump is guilty or not guilty well it will be left up to those 12 jurors, but i think you get asked the american public if if joe biden was on trial in the reddest count county in america, i had a gag order and couldn't talk about it, had a judge that have donated to

president trump and add prosecutors that we're all republicans. >> we're fans and supporters of president trump. i think no, the media that's lined up along the street out here would be like, wow, it's gonna be very tough for joe biden. you get a fair trial in that very red county where when you do jury selection in a county that's 90 92% blue like manhattan is you have to ask question, but it'll be, i'm sure however, this turns out, people will appeal the lawfare will continue and the american public will suffer because this is at the end at the heart of this whole thing is about politics. it's not actually about a media legal decision that affected effected americans. and so i think we're just going to it'll be interesting where this plays out. i think it's showing it's showing in the polling that this lawfare is not working the american people aren't buying it you're describing this all as political and of course, we've seen instances where judges that trump appointed or overseeing his cases and we have not seen complaints from

trump's team then i think that that table could turn both ways, but governor at the heart of this it is the false vacation of business it's records and i just want to ask you one more time do you agree that that is but that's not legal, that it's not just a paperwork as you are misclassification issue that falsifying business records is indeed illegal well, i don't think that's been proven yet, and there hasn't really been clearly identified what the crime is, because as you saw this morning, caitlin sir, called legal expenses and they were paid to his attorney and so i think they're going to have to droop and they paid that attorney $420,000 and he paid 130,000 out the other end for a legal so commonplace non-disclosure agreement. i think we'll find out in cross-examination what happened to those the dollar in-between that today, but it's so it's not you're making a un ascertain that hasn't even been proven yet in this trial what

michael cohen testified to it we'll see what happens here is cross-examination. >> trump's attorney friday's are now up. governor doug burgum. thank you for joining us thank you. >> caitlin and woolf, obviously, that is a supporter of the former president's. >> he is someone who is in the running to be vice president. that is why you're seeing me or the courtroom today along with other people who've also either salt at position or cabinet roles and other political supporters and donald trump's who are in that courtroom with him as the cross-examination of michael cohen is now getting underway. wolf very dramatic indeed are kaitlyn thanks very much. i'm gonna get back to our panel of experts. we now see the cross-examination of michael cohen is underway and it's very significant because it started very tough that todd blanche, the trump attorney, going after michael cohen, right away from the beginning asieh about things that michael cohen posted on tiktok and twitter remarkable exchange. >> so the first thing todd blanche, asked michael cohen is you and i have never met michael cohen said correct. we've never met blanche then

asked you went on tiktok and call me and i'm quoting here. you went on tiktok and call me a crying little at that point, there was an objection. the lawyers went to the sidebar and the judge sustained, upheld the objection. and i think the reason why is michael cohen's feelings towards the lawyer are really irrelevant. and so that objection was sustained, meaning wipe the question off the books and then todd blanche came back and said, okay, you posted on tiktok that quote, trump belongs in a effing cage like get an animal. now, that's okay because that goes to michael cohen's bias against donald trump. that matters here. so we went right to this issue of you have this sort of all consuming personal hatred and a vested interest in this case, they're continuing to just piggyback off of that. the questioning now, blanche shows cohen an email to see if it professor says, recollection, cohen reads the email for several moments. yes, i see that the recollection that they're referring to is about blanche telling cohen

that the prosecution as cohen to cut it out and clearly he didn't so what they're trying to establish is that cohen's hatred for trump is so deep that he's even defying the prosecution in this case who had who said just keep it under routes. they're saying this is the real michael cohen the michael cohen who has been on the stand before full of remorse a good guy. >> that's not michael cohen. michael cohen is the guy who goes on on twitter. and writes things like this about the people who are going to be prosecuting him, and about the former president of the united states and so that's the guy you should understand. did all these things and lied all these times and don't feel sorry for him he's not anybody you want to feel sorry for. he is out to get donald trump and everyone who surrounds donald trump a little bit of trial practice, one-on-one. >> why?

>> the attorney showed the email to michael cohen as opposed to read it to him. >> the email itself is likely hearsay. it can't be just introduced as evidenced by an attorney reading it. it can be used to refresh the recollection of a witness who does not remember something. so you just show it to them and say refresh what you said. i don't know to a moment ago. yes. okay. now, please continue. and now he asked him the question, well, he's always done his own qatar. that's what they're trying to do. they're trying to just bury him with his own words. >> it's about more than just as michael cohen and good person or bad person that matters. but really what this goes to you have an intense bias in this case. you have one outcome that you state your professional future on. they're going to get to the t-shirt that michael cohen was wearing the other de showing trump behind bars. and i think that's really potent cross-examination. it's frankly insulting to the jury. it's their decision, it's not up to michael cohen, this guy goes to jail or not, and it shows that michael michael cohen is sort consumed by this white hot hatred for the defendant, which is fair game lying little or

whatever the wine was, was a question that i'm quite confident, you know, todd blanche well, quite confident he knew was going to get objected to because it's an irrelevant question, but he knew he would get on the witnesses scan and plant the seed for the jury that he's just pops off on social media and good he gets under very blistering cross-examination is only just beginning. >> we're watching it very, very closely are special live coverage will continue right after a very quick break. >> when we're right back where we started tied up at two games of this series as long way from being old this next timberwolves nuggets coverage begins tonight at 7:30 nba playoffs presented by google pixel would conference semifinals coverage presented by wayne stop on ten good data, cough. >> oh, no bob, i call later chest congestion. >> hello, 12 hours of relief wow, bowers not coughing. at

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accustoming.com i'm katie go lilla in washington. >> and is cnn right now. >> michael cohen is back on the witness stand and he is being cross-examined by donald trump's lead attorney todd blanche being questioned about comments that he made on television and social media about this case. >> we're following it all closely right now, he being asked if he leaked to cnn that the da's office had taken his phones, that he had turned through them over to the district attorney's office just over a year ago before donald trump was ultimately indicted in this case, would me now, as cnn's kristen holmes and polo, reid, and i should note that we're not the people that i believed that michael cohen being alleged and told that he turned his phones over to the district attorney's office. but paulette, can we talk about how this started because right off the bat, it was expletive-laden and todd blanche was asking michael cohen about comments that he has made recently about todd blanche, susan necheles, and about donald trump himself. >> yeah, they had many choices

or how to begin this cross-examination and todd chose to start with a tiktok from michael cohen where he attacked todd blanche i using some expletives. now, todd blanche also points out the fact that these two men have never met it's unclear exactly why this selection was made, but based on my conversations with sources familiar with their thinking, they want to establish that cohen is so blinded by hadrian good for trump and so obsessed with this trial that you would attack someone. he's never even met. >> and the other thing that they're criticizing him for right off the bat in front of the jury is talking about this case going on television, given being interviews about this. and todd blanche gotten him after a few objections to concede that, yes. the district attorney's office had asked him prosecutors here to stop talking publicly about the case which we already knew because they've done it privately. >> and actually right now to it so that you in an already had the info on the phones talking about leaking that the de had the phones and all you did was confirmed. michael cohen says, no, sir. i don't recall. we've heard a few. i don't recalls

or that sounds right, blanche has been really putting shooting him to say, does that sound right or is that right? many of the times we've seen michael cohen say that is correct. but this again, they are establishing several things. one, they want to know, they've asked us now multiple different ways. have you been following the trial closely? then they show examples from social media of him following the trial. they have also said that you talk to the press that you wouldn't be the prosecution, even though they asked you not to talk about this case, as paula said, this all goes to this dear that you are so blind with hatred that you would go beyond even the people prosecuting the case on this. >> and what this started out with is they're not even just saying that he's commenting on the case and the way he's commenting on this case at one point, they were reading michael cohen a quote, todd blanche was where he said that the donald trump should crawl back into a little cage that he belonged in, meaning the courtroom that he referred to todd blanche, and i'm quoting michael cohen here. so apologies. as a little and then

he also was referring to donald trump. is donald trump the dictator? i mean, they're, they're bringing out everything that michael cohen has said to say, this is not a credible figure for this jury to be listening to or the sympathetic figure who earlier to the prosecution was sorry yes, ma'am. no, ma'am. and was talking about his misdeeds. >> it comes across as obsessive fixated on the defendant and that's what they want to get across. reasonable doubt in the minds of at least one juror that michael cohen is so blinded by his hatred of the defendant that he cannot be trusted stood in terms of the testimony that he's given for allegedly falsifying documents, it's also notable that they're getting something that we've all known for awhile, which is the frustration that prosecutors have had with cohen. and his relentlessly speaking about this case, he has been told multiple times to stop talking about this case. the judge only told them to stop late last week, but this has been a continued frustration and it's funny. it feels like the only thing that

really proven beyond a reasonable doubt in the course of this case is that everybody has been in frustrated with michael cohen. i mean, that hit the criticism of his character, the way he conducts himself, this is something that is universal across all sides of this case. >> and just one thing i want to point out, this is also to try and get under michael cohen scan. they want him to be reactive. they know that he's reactive person. they know that this has been him on his best behavior. they believe it is good for them and is good for the defense. if they can get him to have some kind of outbursts, just pushing him right now on having very specific recollections of his conversations with trump but no recollection of his conversations with the media because he was saying they were asking, well, did you deny did you tell cnn this and other outlets and he's saying, i don't recall that yeah. >> again, they're going to try to go through this is gonna be all about painting him as not actually knowing what was going on, remembering what was going on. and essentially that you following the case so closely that he might be making some of this up in order to be presenting the case in a certain way. because again, back to the basic, he is so blind with hatred here.

>> and now cohen is saying what i was saying to you, sir. i don't recall even having these conversations patients with lindy davis about not going on television, which we know of course i did have wendy davis, trump, michael cohen's former attorney, has been very careful himself about what he can say about this case. >> that is right. and i remember period and dealing with them last year around the time of the indictment when there was again, pressure from michael cohen to stop talking to the press to stop going on television. i mean, this pressure has been there for you years, but really risacher crescendo as they came to indict trump, but it's clear cohen has not stopped. he has been relentless and his attacks and the defendant and that is a problem for prosecutors, but a great opportunity for that fats and deaf sports is a former florida judge and current law professor who is also joining us now. and judge, when todd blanche came out of the gate, would those questions about what michael cohen had said about him, what he had throughout the other attorney on this case, there's a necklace. what he had said obviously about dealt trump, those questions. i believe all three of them the answers were stricken from the record,

meaning yes, the jury heard them, but they're not actually going to be in the transcript, but still, the jury did hear them. do you believe the judge made the right decision there? >> i think he did. i think that those type of questions regarding counsel on the other side are probably improper for them to ask whether they like or dislike the attorney that's questioned him is not the issue i think that it's proper to strike those questions and those answers, but that's like tying trying to un-ring so it's been heard it's like saying, don't pay attention to the pink elephant in the site across the room. they're going to pick jury is going to pay attention to it. they're going to see how he feels about all of the people involved on the defense side of this case but that's not to meet only it's meant to me only to get under his skin to get him angry. because most of what he testified to, he has been corroborated by other witnesses. it has been corroborated by documents. they laid the foundation perfectly to withstand this. and if

michael keeps his cool if he does not give, let these things get under his skin and respond in an angry manner. he will end up in the end winning the day and right now todd blanche is asking him about multiple warnings that he got from the district attorney's office, that he said off soft here at this case, michael cohen affirm yes, he did. >> blend to ask what the district he's obviously said michael cohen said, please don't talk about this case. i mean, of course michael cohen has continued to talk about this case. judge, just watching courtrooms. we don't know what the story is thinking. that'll give anything way, but is that something that jury takes into consideration that michael cohen has been speaking off and he says now that the district attorney's office told him probably better off if you don't speak about it, how does the jury hear something like like that well, the jury hears this and they say, okay, the guy is angry. there's no question about that, and i don't think he is really denied it to the same extent.

they hear it. and you basically you're reinforcing what he has said that, is if you ask, did you say this? did you say that did you speak on on social media and he answers, yes, i did. then he's not lying to them. he's telling them i did those things. yes, i did not listen to the prosecutor i'd like to have witnesses when i was a prosecutor are always listened to everything. i told them that just doesn't happen in a case like this with a personality like michael collins. he's not going to pay attention, at least not that closely when the judge said stop, he stopped at least as far as we know yeah. >> you said it was fewer than five times. they asked him to stop to stop talking about this dead stuff forts. thank you for that. >> right now, cohen is saying it's correct that he is not stopped to talking about the case. >> he says i'm responding. of course, we are watching all this closely, an intense back-and-forth inside that courtroom right now. that's playing out between trump's

lead attorney and his former attorney, michael cohen, been much more of our special coverage of this ahead ahead. and just moments russia is we're trying to spy on us. >> we were spying on them. early friday this is a war, but secret. >> was secrets and spies, a nuclear game premier sunday, june 2 ten on cnn doug lima someone needs to customize and save hundreds and car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fl y i thought you were right behind me. only pay for what you need labor day thinking i'm

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with trump. are reporter inside the courtroom tells us that donald trump is lean, leaning back with his eyes closed. and at one point is month briefly hung open before a readjusted himself in his chair. let's get back to our panel right now. ity contentious. the questioning by todd blanche trump's lawyer and michael cohen, notable shift by the way, from the prior cross-examinations, stormy daniel's was two to this point, the most aggressive cross-examination, but this is already miles beyond that. what they're trying to do here, what trump's legal team, it's trying to do is establish that bias, establish that michael cohen hates donald trump and really he wants him to go to prison and they're doing that through michael cohen's own words, which he's not quite even fully embracing me here. this, this exchange, have you regularly commented on your podcasts that you want president trump to be convicted in this case, cohen says, yes, probably yes, probably. he said if 500,000 times, i mean, it's all he said so if i was michael

cohen's lawyer and the da's team, i'd want him to just be more forthcoming. do you have any doubt you said in your podcast you want trump to be convicted in this case, blanche asks no colin response. okay. that's a better answer. of course, he does no doubt. but again, this isn't about who's right or wrong is between trump or cohen, who's good or bad or who's more good or more bad it's about the fact like that the witness despises the defendant, wants him to be convicted, wants him to go to prison. michael cohen gave them that ammo. now they're using it well, i think they're they're saying he's an obsessive about donald trump. >> and he obsesses about getting him convicted every todd blanche, the trump ball lawyer just asked, do you want to see president trump convicted in this case? cohen's reply? sure. right. and he says that on every podcast and every moment that he can and he is he is a man obsessed with retribution for donald. >> the jury is shown a photo the t-shirt that cone cells of trump in an orange jumpsuit on his so-called may a culpa

website. >> that's another aspect of this cross-examination that we've seen over the last couple of minutes. it's not just establishing establishing for the jury that michael cohen wants revenge and he wants revenge in this case and he's doing what he can. blanche pulls up a picture of a coffee mug for the jury, quote, send him to the big house, not the white house. the coffee cup. >> that's always thank you for monday selling exactly. he's so-called products precisely it's not just that he wants to see donald trump in jail or convicted. it's that he profits, he benefits financially off of the notion that donald trump should go to genesis, his cottage industry, which is only t-shirts and coffee mug? yes. exactly. and having people listened to his podcast donald trump, everything, and his book, because i mean, this is what michael cohen does for a living and they're arguing not only is he bias, but he has a financial interest in this case because if this comes back with a conviction, michael will get more hits on tiktok and sell

more. and if it comes back, anything other than a conviction, you can bet those numbers will go here's the question. >> we don't really know how it's playing in the room, right? he's certainly doing the best based on the words that are showing up. he's doing the best he came by answering yes, i did that. yes. i said there was the one that you'd pointed out a moment ago, elie worry hedged a little bit, and then on the follow-up questions yeah, i actually am calling for the president to go to jail or whatever else its tone and demeanor are really, are relevant to the jury. and i'm curious as to how they're seeing what they're seeing here. >> so go ahead and todd, blanche showed the trump attorney pulls up the picture of a coffee mug for the jury, send him to the big house, not the white house, the coffee cup and it reads, it really does double up. and just to underscore the point that we've been making here, it does double up. there's two things going on. it's the biased against the former president, but also the profit motive. and if you notice, it was also something that they use to cross-examines stormy daniel's as well, that she was enriching herself in some ways off of the case that's the kind of thing that defense attorneys can use to get the jury's todd blanche

asked cohen to confirm he wore that t-shirt on his tiktok last week cone response. i did. >> well, you know, also earlier in the trial, we heard a lot of people say, like keith davidson you know, that they didn't like working with michael cohen, that he wasn't a likable guy, that he tended to bully people. and this just guilds, the lily here about about his nature and his nature is to attack and that is what he's doing on his podcast. >> todd blanche asked and you were encouraging people to buy it. cohen? yes. it's part of the merch store, the merchandise. >> think what we're seeing here is sort of as we've talked about, almost a methodical going through every single thing he's made profit off of. and i'm sure there'll be more they've used now the tiktok page. oh, is that monetised you getting money from that? oh, the t-shirt. did you get money for the t-shirt? the mugs, did you get money for the mugs and perhaps then they turned to statements? we'll start confronting him with each one.

it's a tactic that's very common on cross-examination and more than anything else, has someone crossing someone just get yes or no answers make him say yes todd todd blanche. >> when cohen changed his views about trump and cohen responds and i'm quoting now, i guess it would be august of 2018, but this is going to be interesting because this is going to be trying to tell another version of or another aspect of the story that the prosecution got out of him, which was very much i couldn't do it anymore. my family didn't want me to be trump's guy anymore. why was i doing this? why was i potentially going to i'm going to jail for him. i needed to change my ways. and this is coming at it from the point of view, maybe there's another reason what the significance of august 2018 is. that's when he pled guilty. that's when the sdny came to him. he says pressure, but he pleads guilty and it's a chicken or the egg thing that he plead guilty because he made a clean break in life or did he did he make a

clean break and life and then plead guilty and others. did he do it for good reasons or didn't do it because he got caught. >> and anyone who's spoken with michael cohn understands that he he is angry, that he is the only person in the trump orbit to have served time. i mean, that was i guess before manafort. right. but and weisselberg. and weisselberg. but early on, he was the only one and it just sat in his cross. like, i don't deserve to be there. >> you still live in a building with trump's name on a correct? i do. what's that about? >> look quite sure where they gets you're still continuing to you, you purport to have broken what the defendant, but you still living in his buildings like who are you, man, i think that's the question that they're getting out was interesting also, they were talking about an interview that michael cohen gave to george stephanopoulos, all of a sudden it's come up in the course of this trial. i'm going to be speaking later tonight in the situation room with george stephanopoulos. we'll get to that as well. we'll see

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called now, i'm arlette saenz at the white house, and this is cnn it's been an explosive last hour graff's testimony in the hush money criminal trial of former president donald trump. >> i'm wolf blitzer in washington with kaitlan collins outside the new york courthouse. thanks very much for joining a cnn special live coverage moments into this powerful cross-examination donald trump's attorneys

attempted to shred the credibility of the prosecutors star witness. trump's former fixer and attorney michael cohen, caitlin where do you yeah. >> well, if and of course, as you know, cohen has been seen as the linchpin for the district attorney's case here, being able to directly connect trump to the payment since that were made to silence the allegations of an affair with stormy daniels, its surface to late right before the election in 2016. we are watching all well, this is michael cohen is now in the hotseat with trump's attorneys questioning him. cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, and cnn's national correspondent, kristen holmes, are both here with me as we're all watching all of this. and right now blanche is asking michael cohen about one that he lived in a trunk building. that building with trump's name on it and still does. it also asks sam your job wasn't just representing president trump. you also represented his family at times, michael cohen said, i have. yes. >> so this is likely going to come up a little bit later. one of the arguments since the defense attorneys will make on behalf of their client is that

cohen was still doing legal work during the time he was falsely invoicing afford retainer. they're going to argue that this retainer was very generic and in fact, at this time, he was doing work including work for melania trump. now, there was a reference earlier, i'm for you heard it when you were in court to a contract that you reviewed for millennia during 2017 related to those i'm not sure if that is going to factor into their case, but that's why he's asking about the fact that he represented not only trump, but other people. >> so you think that they could be getting into because michael cohen was saying all the payments he got in 2017 continuing the 11 checks that we went through one by one by one, that they were all not payments for legal services because he said he hadn't done any legal work, that it was just for the hush money, but that he said he did do some legal work and 2018 and that he just didn't build trump for it because he didn't think you would get paid for it, essentially, they're going to argue that he was doing legal work, not necessarily for the president at that time, but

four members of his family. and that is why he was getting paid so that it's not accurate to say that they were completely falsified claims that this was part of our tanno that is one of the many arguments they're gonna make an avatar client. what do you make of trump's demeanor? >> is this? this is all going on. he's not leaning over and watching closely. some thought he might, especially during the cross-examination at one point, hit his chin, was kind of rusting on his chest for a bit. there are moments where he is certainly slept in court. there are moments more moments where he's just been tuning it all out. but he's not as glued to the screen kind of as he was when stormy daniels was in that same seat? yeah. actually, one of our court reporters suzanne nichols, was front necklace is trying to get communicate with them and that he wasn't paying attention to her, just staring at her. and finally she whispered something is er to get his attention. >> i think that this goes to exactly what they have asked him to do during this. >> i don't think that it is likely he's falling asleep during michael cohen's testimony, he knows it was how important visit and part of it he wants to hear. he wants to hear what michael cohen said.

remember what he wants from todd blanche. he wants to see todd blanche rip michael cohen apart. >> and michael cohen just testified that he read or to the deal twice, that it was safe to say you did admire trump and now todd blanche is asking michael cohen if he was obsessed with trump. my god said, i don't know if i would characterize the word obsessed. i admired him tremendously. where are they going with this paula? their clearly trying to antagonize cohen and suggests that he is obsessed. >> now blanche read backwards i want to set including that all trump wants to do is quote, make the country great again, i'm trying to make them look like a hypocrite. now we know that this, this relationship dissolved for reasons that were quite clear on direct examination cohen came under criminal investigation. he was there are enormous pressure eventually decided to break with the president and then the president appear to retaliate against him publicly. but he says at the time you weren't lying when you thought he was to make america great again, blanche? gas at that time i was knee deep into the colts of donald trump. yes. >> so cohen getting a little psaki on the stand there, there are stormy daniels vibes.

>> where when she was pushing back on susan nicholas der her crossings divination, she would say, well, you benefited a lot from your making money off this relationship. this a fair that you have a donald trump and she would respond and say, well, i've also lost a lot as well, and both can be true what they were trying to get at here is rapid fire style is cohen not only hates the defendant, he aides anyone associated with him. >> he's publicly said that he wants to see him behind bars whose vested interest in the outcome of this case. and then god willing to talk about how he is making money now he says it's not a lot of money that is making from his merch store. but we've only gone to the merch store. we haven't gotten to the book deals. nib only touched on the prod cast. so this is going to be a long, very intense neck today at half and he's saying you were telling the truth, then about essentially saying what you're telling to the truth when you are working for donald trump, then michael cohen testified quite at length that he lied on donald trump's behalf a lot. >> i mean, he testified that for to congress. he testified that yesterday. he testified it again today that he was doing this in order to benefit donald

trump when he told these laws, he says, that's how i felt go and says i was expressing my feelings. >> so yes, it would be the truth. we talked about michael cohen line. that's going to be at the heart of all of this. i think the prosecution did a good job of presenting a measured michael cohen, who told the story which had time was could have been sympathetic to jurors about how he built this relationship with donald trump, howard we all of a sudden, his office, his home are searched by the fbi. then he was isolated from this person that he cared about, trying to figure out how to stay in his good graces that's what led to this. now you're going to see the other side of this, which is then pointing out the fact that michael cohen has lied a number of times, not always just to benefit donald trump, but also to benefit himself at times. >> can we talk about though how donald trump appears to be dozing off at times during what is it gets warm in that courtroom. it gets tedious, it points, but senator jd vance, who is in there yesterday, was saying easier to fall asleep and networks, it's a courtroom

amount of boring at times. >> i mean, this is arguably one of the most important parts, if not the most important part for the defense of this entire trial. it's interesting because the same he did the same thing when accountants terms organization, were testifying. i was in there. it was argued we've deadly boring. they were going through all of these, this documents is to enter them into evidence. >> i don't know this for a fact, but i think it's fair to suggest he could be doing it to antagonize michael cohen. >> what is michael cohen? what does he wanted more than anything in the war? for all per decades, the approval of donald chomping here to suggest that he's not even as important as stormy daniels and he won't even look at them. i'm a few things are likely to annoy michael cohen as much when you more than anyone that michael cohen is someone who actually does get under his skin. that is somebody who riles him up. he doesn't like talking about michael cohen at all because actually sitting in this courtroom staring at michael cohen, i'm not staring at me as his eyes closed those are reporting, but the fact that he has to listen to him, that is not comfortable for the former president. again, his lawyers i've asked him have

begged him not to have any reaction to michael cohen because they believe that that will urge michael cohen on. and remember what they wanna do is actually get under michael cohen skin and hidden be the one reacting. >> yeah, right now, todd blanche is walking. michael cohen through positive statements that he made about donald trump in 2015. woolf, obviously this is notable because they been in the same room, but other times those in michael cohen testified in the civil fraud trial, but michael cohen, adult thom have not spoken directly since 2018, wolf and now his attorneys walking through all the nice things that michael cohen previously said about him before that break and their relationship. >> yeah, i used to say a lot of nice things is i can personally testify since all the their views i did with him always very very positive in those days years ago about donald trump. i want to bring back our panel of experts to assess what is happening right now this cross-examination, ellie, has been very, very dramatic so far. and at one point, todd blanche trump's attorney got caroline to admit that he was making what, almost half 1 million dollars a year in

salary from the trump organization. what's the point of bringing that up? >> so here's why that's relevant. one of the arguments todd blanche is trying to make here is that paying retainer fee, paying attorneys fees through those checks we've seen $35,000 a month totaling up to $420,000 per year was not outrageous, was not conspicuous so it's not something that donald trump would have necessarily looked at and said, gee, there must be something else going on here. he pointed out, blanche pointed out you were doing legal work for the family, as well as a little bit for donald trump. and your average salary anyway, was $375,000 plus a bonus. so the point is that blanches more than $100,000, right. and so the point that blanche is arguing is that paying him for 20 over the course of a year isn't really that unusual. >> i just want to point out, in addition to the discussion about his salary, what's happening as we speak? is that todd blanche is talking more about the positive things that michael cohen said for years, right? as you said, he said, do you and to many people, very,

very much publicly, the one that they're talking about right now, blanche asks if he said in a 2017 vanity fair profile of p would take a bullet for the for donald trump and he said yes, and the article cohen said, there was no money in the world to write about the trump family yeah. >> i look, this is a man who was always looking for donald trump's approval as he said in his earlier testimony, when something happened, he would run into trump's office and tell him about it and nothing felt as good as getting that attaboy from donald trump's. so i think what they're trying to do is say, here's how he was and look at what he's turned into that he had no intention of reading a book that's right at that time. at that time. and then he turned on donald trump with a vengeance and then the question is, why did he turn on donald trump was such a vengeance. >> all right, here's you said there was no money in the world to get you to disclose anything

about the family cohen. okay. blanche asked whether cohen described trump's family as a surrogate family correct. so again, he's talking about the flipped on donald trump, which speaks to personal bias there. i think that's where they're going. one thing to note, it's important to recognize that his story has been incredibly consistent during this trial. it's supported by the testimony of other witnesses. this document from allen weisselberg that laid out how he was paid a number of checks that's all great evidence and it's supported by michael cohen's testimony. again, the problem here is that the witness also has some of these credibility issues that go beyond merely being convicted of crimes. there's these allegations of bias that the prosecutors are partnering the defense attorney is starting to pick out a little bit like a scab almost i'm not so moved by this whole line of you used to love the family, used to be. i don't know what that gets. todd, blanche, and trump's tamiah. it witness disingenuous isn't just should the trump family believed that you liked them then, but not now, were you lying that answers i used

to i don't know, but i just think that's it's another angle, but yeah, it's not there. >> or maybe when he discovered trump wasn't going to defend him, he turned cold, confirms he said in 2017 that he quote, missed president trump. that was then now is a very different story. indeed, make an important point, elie, how these flip-flopped over donald trump, trump was in the white house at that time. >> and of course, michael cohen didn't go to the white house with themselves, invited. he missed him and then he testified that he did and they have a lot of work either at that point. so he was a man without a home. >> all right. everybody standby. we're only starting are special coverage of this cross-examination very, very powerful. indeed, the defense has not asking michael cohen about his feelings toward donald trump when he worked for him as trump's defense team looks to get at cohen's motivations as a witness, more of our special coverage from the trump hush money trial straight up this is a secret

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paula, that initially when he met with them, he was still kind of deceptive and some of his answers, but he's talking now about what the prosecution got it before they finished questioning him, all of his cooperation that he's had with the investigative bodies. looking into donald trump and his orbit, and suddenly trump's seems interested in this because our colleagues are reporting that trump is leaning into look at the screen as land shows cohen a document to confirm who was at that august 7 meeting, including an fbi agent and others? >> there's when he went back into to talk to robert muller well, for for cohen, this is just another entity that he has lied to the special counsel's office while he did go back and agreed to cooperate, he admitted that, yes. the first time he talks to them, he lied that his defendants who lied to protect trump. but these lies are really adding up up over the entire narrative, something that jurors are just going to have to contend with when they go to deliberations. >> and michael cohen, not only cooperative, robert muller, he also talked about other investigations that he cooperated, and obviously, the

district attorney's offices or lead witness here and how many times they met with him and then also talked about when it came to the civil fraud case, when he went and testified on capitol hill as he did and 5.5 hours before the house oversight committee. i mean, there is a lot of testimony from michael cohen. once this during between he and donald trump and fully hit its mark. yeah. and that's are talking about the financial gain that michael cohen had. i think they're going to circle back to it that it looks as though they ask questions. you said that your says you said your life have been turned upside down since the release of the steele dossier, cohen says, yes, we're gonna go into his interview with molar so he decided that he was going to cooperate seems as though they're going to try to paint him as duplicitous, but also as somebody who was there when he was making money off but and once it is separated from donald trump, and out of the inner circle that then he turned on donald trump and now is making money this way because it doesn't make sense to just go after you said the family was just like yours, that there were surrogate family. now, blanche is walking

cohen through the molar interview we were cohen denied going to prague, one of the false allegations in the dossier. so here's we're gonna go through this dossier right now. on through the interview. and how many times michael cohen might've been dishonest? so then came back through it. of course this still dossiers. what came out in 2016 that was compiled to hurt donald trump's candidacy, had some parts of it we're not true, including this was a big allegation at the time about pro were michael cohen, i believe, tweeted and a denial of and said he was nowhere near abroad. cohen says he also told these special so counsel's office that he never paid the russians to hack anything. this is at that moment where michael cohen is testified also about trump knowing about the release of the wikileaks emails, all this happening at the same time in the 26th seen election is when the access hollywood tape was coming out. roger stone giving them a heads up about that as he as he testified, all of this is coming up inside this courtroom just to complete throwback to everything that was happening. and then now blades is ask him to ask you

whether trump moscow project and you lied to them. this is what michael cohen said. they weren't pursuing business in russia he later said they were, but he testified that he lied about that. he says to protect donald trump yeah. and that's his defense of a lot of the lies that he is told to various entities. now he lives of course to congress about the moscow project that is one of the things that he is. he has pleaded guilty to lying, to call, false statements to congress i again, the jury has to trust michael cohen's account of the light of falsifying of these documents. and what we were seeing a pattern of two patterns. one a disdain for the defendant and a propensity to lie to everyone and he says it was on trump's behalf, but not all of these are on trump's behalf. now, blanche is pushing crow and asking was it alive? >> i don't know five characterize it as a lie. it was inaccurate. now is getting a little cute, right samantha was alive? >> yes yes. he said it was a lie. >> he has also again, pleaded guilty false statements to congress about this same exact issue. just because he said it was to protect trump doesn't

mean the jury is going to say, okay, i get it. i understand why you lied about that and everything else. >> blanche is asking him how well, how do you distinguish between a lie in an inaccuracy? and cohen says, it wasn't truthful. you want to call it a lie. i'll call on her loss. so now he is conceding i mean, how is that going to come off too? >> a jury that's watching this. >> he's getting a little snippy now that was it. that was expected he's trying to put cohen on the defensive right now. trump is looking toward cohen now leaning i'm back craning his neck to the right. so this interaction recall it appears to be getting a little agitated so far has been pretty calm, pretty consistent on the stand steady, but he taught only sparring back-and-forth and trump has struck as interested, blanche is now asking cohen what he told the special counsel's team about the access hollywood tape we also have brian lanza joining us. >> who was there during 2016, is served as the deputy commissioner communications director for the trump campaign back then, he's now a partner at mercury public affairs and brian lins, me, talk about a throwback as we were talking about everything that was

happening. and his final days before the 20 2016 campaign. i wonder what you make, as someone who's to work on donald trump's behalf of the way that the defense, his attorneys here started out their line of questioning from michael cohen first of all, thank you for having me listen. >> i think the challenge that anybody has sort of attacking michael is this just such a target rich environment. and so you have to find the one that sort of gains credibility with the jury the most. and, you know, i mean, i myself having worked with michael 2016, even interacted with him through 2020 i never found it to be in an honest broker. i'm sure people here on this tv can be a victim of many of my michael cohen's lives. >> so it's sort of hard to attack, but i think the best way to sort of make it look like it's a financial, it's revenge, it's personal, and that sort of extends to michael's character where he has no problem. >> line is not two to the fbi, to the irs, to everything else. he's a man that's desperate for money now, as a result of his lies. and this just becomes an extension of a revenue

stream for him that he desperately needs well, i think what we were just talking about with governor doug burgum, who is a hopeful vice presidential candidate for donald trump as they are trying to undermine michael cohen obviously that's clearly the tactic and we're christian, why the defense is choosing that. >> but also, i mean, donald trump is the one who hired michael cohen and kept him around and had him as his personal attorney. >> once he became president yeah. i don't think that changes anything with the facts of the case. >> i mean, donald trump has used a lot of people as pawns in this chess board. i mean, you have many people who hope to play that same role as michael cohen, which is fine. but i think the challenge we're home is sort of michael sort of because of his sins, because of the punishment he's endured as a result of his own actions he's looking to lash out and blame somebody and he sees his vindication is trying to bring down trump. and there's also an economic factor with him. so i think that becomes clouded in in whatever michael does i mean, the michael cohen i know and i consider knowing him really well. i mean, he would

lie in a confessional booth so i mean, he's he's probably lying on the stand right now. it's just consistent with his character and the thing is is when he lives, it's not that he's just lined for a little thing. he actually thinks he's smarter than us by perjury trading these lies, since even more sick when you worked with michael cohen and you are on the campaign was it clarity that trump was a micromanager and someone that you did have to get his approval for even smaller decisions that were made included public statements that were sent out to press and other matters related to the campaign yeah, less when i worked for for donald trump in 26 turn, the presidential campaign, what i find more interesting than anything else is help people bent over backwards, a sort of endear himself to prove himself to do things for the president are then candidate trump endear himself with his inner circle, with him i never sort of, you know, i did communications. i did the tv, the tv part of the 2016 campaign, which is something that the president, then candidate cared a lot about. i never really felt micro-managing. i felt once in

a while he was telling me to go left or go right sort of steer the ship, but it was never sort of a micro manager. but i will say this, having been around the trump org for a number of years before and after the campaign, you do find a lot of people that will sort of bend themselves backwards to try to please the president and michael seem one of those and that's probably why he was the most disappointed. he didn't get anything serious in the administration, whereas everybody in the campaign, even back to the convention, knew that michael jolkona would never so get a job and the administration because he just wasn't a serious person find lands up. >> thank you for joining us and a reminder, we are watching all of this happening as donald trump's attorney is questioning michael cohen in court right now, right now, he is pressing him on what he has said about his recollections of it this conversations regarding the fallout of that access hollywood tape wouldn't donald trump at what he told the special counsel's office years ago, what he has said yeah. now, on the stand, cohen says, quote, i was being again deceptive or i said i might have, so i left the door open. that was in his conversations with robert mueller's team. we are watching all of this very

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three available in the baking aisle how we'd really happy with jesse l. martin. sunday's at night on cnn welcome back to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial. >> the defense is piling on the pressure and what's become a very fast-paced cross-examinati

on of michael cohen aiming to discredit his testimony from direct examination let's get back to our panel right now. they just took a quick break that afternoon break, but they're going to resume this momentarily, ali, what do you think? well, i think for the last 15, 20 minutes, it's gotten a little bit confused and confusing. i think todd blanche is jumping pretty quickly from the trump defenses. >> the cross-examined termination here he's jumping quite quickly from one theme to another, and he doesn't seem to be fully fleshing out these things. i mean, he started in my view, straw on the on the theme of you, michael cohen hate donald trump. you want nothing more than to see him? convicted and go to prison. that's a great point. there's a lot there. then he jumped into sort of, well, you've there was another time when you like donald trump. now he's into the nuances and deepen the weeds of his of cohen's efforts to talk to molar and sometimes when he misled molar, i mean, all of this has its place, but the organizational structure here to me is lacking. i would do this first, all this stuff on bias, how much you hate him, then all this stuff on

credibility, all the times you've lied. and then if you have some extras, maybe but at this point, they seem to be jumping around too quickly, seems as though he's blanche just trying to combine all of the various points of controversy in donald trump's political life, where it was, it was said, one thing happened publicly. another thing that's happening privately, and it seems as though blanche is trying to establish a pattern. all of those times, michael cohen said, one thing but he was not telling the truth. >> now, what credibility they may be doing is not as stepping up to the line, but not giving the jury that conclusion. that they're ultimately choosing to make from these things. so ask the questions even in a scatter shot fashion that might confuse the jury a little bit. and then on their closing argument, make the point that what you heard michael cohen say that one of these things that just came up, that he flipped his position on donald trump or whatever else. but you're right, it i mean, if your jersey there you might be want to get your legal

perspective. choline has refused using to acknowledge to admit that he lied in various questions over the years but he is acknowledging that he may have made a misstatement that to a jury. what's the difference? i mean, it all depends on what the particular question is and how credible it seems. sometimes it's best to just answer the question the defense attorney is asking and leave it to the prosecutor who will have an opportunity after this to clean up any message that he stepped in, but it the the witness runs the risk by picking by nitpicking some of these questions where there's an obvious answer, you lied you run the risk of appearing that you're trying to hide something and somebody is better to just i don't want to use the word lie in this. i may have made a mistake inaccuracy. yeah. but in the spirit of appearing more candid and strain forward saying i was dishonest then, but i was doing this for the former he's playing into sigler just quickly playing into the line of questioning from the defense, which is that he

won't even admit what ally is, yeah. >> which begs the question, do even know the difference. why do you say? >> the way to do that is to say i lied for the former president objection, your honor. >> for the other side they get it struck from the record, but the jury already heard it. once again, his saying, i did this for the foreign presence to how come, how come you can't recall certain things? but you have a very clear memory of conversations he had with donald trump. >> that's effective, right? the point that todd blanche has made this point a couple of, years. do you remember specific words of a conversation you had in february 2017? with donald trump where the specific words are going to be all the difference in this case. yet want to ask you a straightforward case like, have you ever talked on your podcast about wanting trump to go to jail? the first answer was maybe i think so. i mean that's completely involved. so confrontations with prosecutors in the molar case, for example, he's not he's unclear about what he said to them. >> but again, when it comes to donald trump, this is what we talked about daily. you think

it's significant that todd blanche, the trump defense attorney it is suggesting is getting michael cohen to acknowledge that his views of trump have dramatically changed over the years it's the credibility issue, it's it's do really did you really change? >> your feelings about donald trump or are you saying what you're saying now because you are trying to save your skin and now you're so angry, you're trying to take him down with you i think the point ellie made a moment ago is a good one, which is that the one thing you seem to remember vividly happens to be the one sentence that would incriminate the defendant here, which is that you heard the defendants say in this meeting, i believe is 20 he 17, 2016 that he was doing this for a political campaign purpose that seems to be the one thing, and i think they'll probably make that point again in their closing because it it's a notable departure from a number the answer is this guy not talk

about it more, this kind of seems to me to be a jumble. >> and as ellie was saying before, they're moving back and forth between mahler and between what happened with donald trump in 2017 and you want to say the guy's a liar, okay? you got that out there? but and his recollections are firm on some things and not on other things, but you know, what we're talking about here is a case of case. where are these documents come into play. now, maybe we'll get to the documents soon. maybe we'll talk about what he did with weisselberg soon. but at this point, they're kind of gilding the lily and going over and over and over again okay. >> yeah. he didn't tell the truth all the time and people have already testified to that, including himself. >> it's risky to go back to the papers, though, because the papers actually are quite positive for some, you have to know that not the no, because they're just poking his credibility. i think if you say

the word checks or allen weisselberg, that brings back up this evidence that was really good for the prosecution. >> yeah. i don't think they're going to put the most incriminating evidence in front of michael cohen and tried to get him to disavow it. that's not going to work. first of all, i think the way you do that is you just make the case to the jury. he's a liar. any hates donald trump. hence, you're trying to make that case legal work because he said he was doing legal work for the kids. >> everybody standby. we're going to take a quick break. our team in new york is watching all of this as well. the defense's cross-examinatio n will resume. michael cohen right after quickly in the stanley cup, fairclough life is on the line right now to know after distractions. goodness still feel hot. guy from roger to we there yet so many ways to

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loved one have mesothelial mac will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back to cnn's a special live coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial happening the courthouse behind me, todd blanche, donald trump's attorney is about to begin questioning michael cohen. again, he has been on the witness stand all day today and all day yesterday. but the cross-examination there's only been happening just this afternoon and the court is taking a brief break right now. we are continuing to follow the live updates as you see, donald trump and his entourage, they're entering the courtroom room, including vivek ramaswamy, congressman cory mills. you also saw eric trump there's another trump attorney and north dakota governor doug burgum, who saw on here just a few moments ago quite a packed front, two rows inside that courtroom, which is to change to what it was at the beginning of the trial when donald trump has largely, without any

supporters in the room, paula reid and kristen holmes are here with me and polo. we're just talking about this strategy that todd blanche, i were wondering if it's a strategy that todd blanche is employing is he's jumping all over the place with michael cohen in this of questioning him about what he said to to robert muller, the special counsel of the russian what he said yesterday in court when he reported to prison to him asking and trying to seek to get his prison intense reduced. i mean, i'm not totally following, but but what have you heard from sources about where todd blanche is going with this cross-examination so you have well work with when it comes to michael cohen, so much material you have to come up with some way to approach it. but it appears that the trump legal teams priority here is to throw michael cohen off his game. and when he tests to fight with the prosecution on direct examination, it was mostly chronological. they went through logical questions for one day to the next day for one month to the next month, he was it's confident he was strong.

he was consistent throughout, and it appears that this is a tactical decision to throw michael cohen off a little. now also note that our colleagues inside the courtroom they say that it doesn't seem in the courtroom to be jumping around so much. it's sort of like a movie where they should have present day and then they go all the way back, right? to start at the beginning of the trump organization, but i agree with you. it's been a little hard to follow oh, but as i understand it, this is a tactical decision to try to throw cohen off a bit and we know they expect to keep michael going up there for quite some time until at least end of day tomorrow is what todd blanche told the judge earlier one thing that he is trying to get michael cohen to acknowledge that he his lied about things. michael cohen has done that a lot on the stand already. the prosecution had him do that multiple times where they would say, here's this that you helped story daniels prepare to put out and none of it was true and he would say yes, here's this check where you said here's an invoice for my legal work with she did no legal work. i mean, he admitted already multiple times i'm so lying. it's just not as you know, it's not going he knows that the prosecution is going to ask about he doesn't know what todd blanche

is going down. right. and i think to paula's point, i mean, a lot of that was in chronological order, then you said this, but that wasn't true. >> then move on to the next story. okay. at the very end of that, then you said this, but that wasn't true. it wasn't a deep dive into how many times he's lied, but part of this, which we believe might be tactical, going back and forth, is really just showing bang, bang, bang. here are the times that you lied. what was this? what was this part of throwing them off? remember, is because they want to get him to react. that is what they want from michael cohen. he is known to be a reactive person and they believe that if he reacts, that the jury will react to that. what we have seen from michael cohen, who has been deeply prepped for hours and hours, is a calm, measured person, a witness who knows what he's talking about with sorry for some of the things that he has done. they are trying to get beyond that to the person that michael cohen can be the person that we've seen on social media, cetera. >> and the judge has just gotten back on the bench. that means michael cohen will be back in the room soon. obviously, we expect we just saw trump's team and the room, the prosecution as well.

>> paula, i mean, clearly overall what they're trying to do is say that michael cohen is someone who was motivated by vengeance hear that he was cast out of trump's circle. >> that sun had the fbi and his front door rating his office and his hotel room, that he was staying in. and they're trying to say that a lot of this is motivated by falling out of trump's good graces you need reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror, right? that's what they need here and they're trying to establish that michael cohen is in their words, obsessed with trump's so obsessed that even when prosecutors asked him to please stop talking about the case, he just couldn't do it. he cannot stop talking about the defendant. and that's what motivates them. >> they will argue to lie about the facts of the heart of this case, which is that conspiracy to falsify business records, how did trump's allies feel about this so far being as this case has gone on we only see more and more of donald trump's supporters, including we just saw half of them walk into that courtroom. there, show up inside this room, were told that more are planned is

that an indication of how they feel about how this trial is going? will trial overall, i think there's still some concern that some of what came out, particularly during stormy daniels testimony, the salacious nature could impact voters. >> i think right now what you're seeing is a show of force. these are some of his most vocal allies that are showing up behind him. they are trying to show that they are still loyal hello, to the former president that he's has a loyal following sitting behind him and it's also transactional. we know that he is the current republican nominee for president there's a chance he could be president again. and all of these various lawmakers want to be on the right side of this now when it comes to michael cohen, very much radio silence right now on what they've seen of the testimony, all of them telling me they are waiting to see how the defense plays out. they thought that he did a good job, but not much on where you could actually pull the polls and his story, they continue to say, we're waiting to see what happens when todd blanche takes the stay at it takes begins the cross-examination, which obviously we've seen. and since he has i have not heard

heard anything yet on how they think he's doing. >> and trump has the screen in front of him on his table, so he doesn't even have to turn around to look at michael cohen who walks right behind him when he enters the room. we're told that trump appeared to watch him come back into the courtroom on the screen in front of him that needs michael cohen is going to be back on the witness stand and just a few moments where he will be being questioned and we will see what that looks like as todd blanche is trying to catch him and what he has said previously, what he is saying now, we are continuing to follow every moment from inside the courtroom, stay with them today. at america's beverage companies are bottles might still look the same, but they can be remade whole new way. >> thanks to you. >> we're getting bottles back and we've developed a way to make new ones from 100% recycled plastic, new bottles made using no new plastic. you'll be seeing more of these bottles in more places. >> and when we get more of them back, we can use less new plastic. >> bottles are day to be remade

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criminal trial. court is back in session and prosecution witness michael cohen is being grilled by the former president defense team. let's get some analysis right now. i want to bring in jury consultant leslie ls leslie thanks so much for joining us. first of all, what do you think of the defense's strategy of now using cohen's many negative tv comments and tiktok posts about trump it's fairly common obviously the differences first goal is to undermine his credibility, make it look like he's gotten motive to say what he's saying, whether it be revenge, disappointment, and not being included in the white house, are just pure monetary benefit how are some of michael cohen's answers where he's actually admitting to being untruthful in the past, likely to play with a jury well chris occasion did a really good job. i thought of baking a lot of that into their direct so when they hear it on the cross,

it's not a surprise to them he does seem to be picking it words a little bit and those sorts of semantics what is live versus inaccuracy, those sorts of things do bug jurors but i think he's gotta do it. >> he has to admit if he already did and if you start spreading back now that we're just undermine his credibility even more do you think political allies of trump, like governor doug burgum? burgum for example, or vivek ramaswamy and others showing up at the trial for donald trump. do you think that matters were the jury? >> put a little bit, i think they're probably trying really hard to pay attention to the evidence into the witness michael cohen is one of the most important witnesses. it's probably the one they've been waiting to hear from the most. but i think it is helpful to see that there are people in his in his camp on his sides supporting him. they weren't there at the beginning of the trial though and i do think the

juror is notice that they showed up a couple of weeks in and they might wonder what that meant. >> good point at times. donald trump's eyes are actually closed. his mouth is open, his head is resting on his chest. at times, do juries pay attention to that kind of thing? >> they pay attention to everything there's very little that happens in the courtroom that gets passed them. they've got a lot of time in there. they're watching everything and every move everybody makes. and so there's certainly noticing that it's been happening on a regular basis. i think what they're trying to figure out if to the extent to which they're actually thinking about it too much, is he really falling asleep? or is he really just trying to focus and there seems to be a pattern that he's doing that one is testimony that that mr. trump doesn't like and it might be a technique on his part to try to keep his frustration and anger and anxiety in check so he doesn't get reprimanded from the judge again, in that case,

i don't think it would be too much of a detriment to his own credibility how do you think the prosecution's case has gone overall at least so far, have they done enough to prove the criminal charges to the jury it seems at least from what i can see, they've done a really good job of very methodically tying the chronological course of events to the elements of the crime, right? >> they've been trying very hard and i think they've done a good job of showing this isn't just a case about an affair and trying to cover it up. that not only other false records, but that it's attached to the federal crime of trying to influence an election. and they've worked really hard. and i think done a very good job. a very carefully connecting those dots for the jury in a way that they'll be able to follow, despite the fire hose of information that's been coming their way leslie, alice, the jury, could something. >> thanks very much for joining us and much more of our special

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the historic criminal trial of former president trump as defense attorneys continue their cross-examination of michael cohen. >> he's the prosecution's star witness. and today directly tied trump to payments made to silence allegations of an affair in the weeks just before the 2016 presidential election victory. but trump's lawyers are now going through cohen's history of not telling the truth, including an interview with events special counsel, robert muller and the russia probe, and cohen's testimony before congress. they also pointed out cohen's open hostility toward trump and his team. that he expressed, right before the trial began, the prosecution says cohen, is their last witness, and the defense may begin to present. its case for donald trump as early as thursday. no trial on wednesday thanks very much for joining us. i'll be back in two hours, 6:00 p.m. eastern in th