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new york are continuing to monitor gentleman's out of the middle east where we're learning more about the ceasefire proposal that hamas, except in israel, rejected today and is really strikes on southern gaza. >> there are raising new questions about whether these limited operations will grow into a full fledged invasion of raffa, which binding ministration has been warning against for weeks. we begin the hour right now today, 12 and the trump hush money trial and judges second contempt finding against the former president today in his warning that a third could mean jail time that i'm is calling two longtime trump employees as they try to show exactly how michael cohen was repaid by trump's trust and personal accounts in 2017 after he paid hush money to stormy daniels back with the panel joining us as well as harry lipman, who was in court today's and la times legal affairs columnist, host of the talking feds podcast, and former deputy assistant attorney general. i'm wondering what you observed as judge merchan warren trump about potential jail time. >> it was really sort of jaw dropping. we've been having different judges in different courts kind of wag their

fingers, but he looked directly at trump soft-spoken, but very firm. mr. trump? you are out of rope and it was really the sort of statement we've been waiting for, for a year next time, you're done and it's sensible in a way because with only $1,000 to work with for other violations, why why should he did all around? but he said next time that's it. and he really means that it has credibility would be on the line as well as the integrity of the judicial system. it was a dramatic moment for geoff made the point in the last hour, which i think is very correct that trump actually has been abiding by the gag order since the violations, which has now been punished for i think that's right. he seemed sort of solid at it, angry and he has been at least trying to skate around it. and now we're talking about jayyab. there's a lot of discussion. would he like it quixotic lee for political reasons? but jail, not fun for, you know, just,

just imagine sort of know, hairdressers the whole did he say did he say next time is it or did he imply that somewhere in between? so what he said is necessary and appropriate, which of course you say, but what was really striking about it was the direct address to trump. i haven't heard that before and we've been waiting. he really said, next time it's like a border leyen of a directive and begging him, like he's the joint because as i said earlier, i think you did a great job. the judge is like, don't do this. like i don't want to do this like don't make me do this, don't put me in this position. to trial transcripts. i have it right here, actually, because he he said this is a last resort measure for him that he doesn't not want to have to do this, which i think is important to emphasize because i'm sure trump's allies have been taking the judge and saying he's being treated unfairly. >> he said, yeah, you're the former president of the united states, possibly the next is well, he said there are many reasons why incarceration is truly a last resort for me. and he said to take that step would

one disrupt these proceedings, which i imagine, you want to end as quickly as possible, speaking directly to trump, he said, i also worry about the people who would have to execute that sanction. the court officers, the correction officers, the secret service detail, right. among others, he basically is talking about how involved it would be to actually take this action. but i think the other thing to remember when it comes to last resort, trump is violated. this ten times. i mean, would any other defendant be able to violate a gag order ten times and only really not we're not going doesn't go to 11. >> yeah. but on an e felony, which is the lowest felon for a man who's 77 years old, who's never been in trouble in his life, take out the whole prejudice an average 77 year old. he has a huge platform though, to go after these witnesses and to talk about these jurors. that's exactly why he he was being found. >> caitlin, you brought up a point though and i think a lot of even the future, the present and the future, it depends on the degree of violation. so if tomorrow he comes out there and says someone should take out michael cohen. i think donald trump will be put in jail immediately if he says, i still

don't feel like i'm getting a fair trial from these jurors. i don't know if the judge would say yes, it's a violation, but i'm not putting you in jail for that so i might have to graduate. i disagree about i think there's no more room to say violation, but you're okay. >> he might he might really try to keep from finding a violation, but if he does, i think no more room, but i do think that what he did today in addition to the comments there were four things on his desk that could potentially be violations. he didn't say that all of them were and some of them involve comments about witnesses like michael cohen and others. and so i think the judge actually by doing both things at the same time, was basically saying, look there are lines here. i think the jury is aligned for him and rightfully so the jury is their regular people. trump aligning them to kaitlan point on his massive platform is a huge problem. we know that there are consequences of that, but the judge seem to at least in this latest tranche say okay, well, him calling a witness. nice.

that doesn't quite count. he's drawing some lines there and saying that there are degrees to this and he's not willing to just say everything in this category is a violation when it may not be there are other costs to donald trump here. >> real costs to irritating the dej to pushing the judges patients. number one, if donald trump gets convicted this is the guy who's sentencing him. let's keep that in mind. the sentence here will be, of course, up to the judge, and this will be a close call. i mean, if you look at class ii felonies, the lowest level of felony, most of them result in probation and finds not prison time, but some do. and the judge would be well within his rights to say, i'm going to take into account the fact that you violated my order ten times the second cost is team has his lawyers are flying blind here. they don't know who's coming tomorrow because they asked for that. they judge, we'd like to know at one point, todd bland said, i promise you, i will prevent him from tweeting and the judge says, i don't think you can make that promise. and so normally a defense would certainly know the night before who's coming tomorrow instead,

they don't know if they're gonna be cross-examined. >> reading is actually hurt his case. >> yes intangible ways. so maybe he's taking that and look if he's self-interested, which is don't know if he's rational, but he's self-interested. you should be taking that. >> they're finding out the de, but they're finding out very close they were complaining that they found out very very late yesterday, who the first witness would be today. they said the same thing about david pecker when he first testified that they are getting a pretty they say it's too short of a notice well, just so we're clear, they know the universe of potential witnesses. >> the government is required by law to produce the universe. so they're not picking names out of hats, but the order in in which they're called is as a courtesy, is different that's the pair for any lins. the evidence de because you were you were very struck. i heard you say by the alawites tilburg nodes. on a document, let's put the documented. we showed this in the last hour. why why was this such an important piece of evidence? >> two reasons i think the first is it corroborates what

cohen has been saying for years, including in front of congress all the way down to the actual kind of calculation. how do you get from one 30 to the other thing is the idea that this was a scam. michael cohen was, was executing on on donald trump, jacking up this price and trump was ignorant of it. this shows at least an hour and yslow bernick was working out exactly what the figure would, but that's the second point. it obliterates any argument which you could have had after say hope hicks, that this was somehow cohen acting on his own. this is why so berg, above him and they are doing it together. all you can now say hey it's i always useful to think about what there'll be able to i mean, if anybody knows who otherwise, i'll burger is if yslow berg is doing it, it means it's being done with trump's approval. the only sliver is somehow he's the jury doesn't necessarily get well, the jury believed that without always were testifying, who who convinces the droughts have a really important point. i think it's the one thing, the one hole in what's otherwise 360

degree coverage and what cohen has to say is this conversation, but you need a reason there's no count. how could why berg and cohen somehow be freelancing in this sense when everything we've heard about trump is what a micro-manager terry is on the lights, but at least it it says no no more argument that is cohen on his own as hope hicks sort of suggested on a simple question i have today, explain what that $50,000 services i mean, it's a big number. >> it is. and well, what what conus said is it's a separate payment for some kind of technology kind of service chris, that he had done before. some people are whispering, maybe it's another kind of campaign thing, but i think it's just another payment he made a few months previous slide. there's also a $60,000 quote-unquote bonus. so that's what it's a bonus. that's what they call. i'm just curious what that 50 grand is because that's a big number for this analogy, services is when the pay off the hush money pay off is 130,000 and then you have

this other 50 on top of enabled. you guys might get all confusing for those jurors. but remember you also had a witness today who said that donald trump is perfectly capable and sometimes did not signed checks. so he obviously could have said to all the& it wasn't just one check. it was it was i think 11 different checks reimbursing khan, he could have said, what is this? why am i paying this right? that document answers the question of why he was paying it is although remember also earlier on poland complaints to pecker. he's not paying me something kind of happen that made trump's so complying here and they version will come with colin and also the question, why was it not a one for one payoff? why was it not just the entire amount that they just paid all of that? why did they instead do it? and those monthly installments, i haven't seen any explanation of that from the trump team. >> just to look look like legal services he's saying are we give you 35,000 to do legal services that you're not providing.

>> one thing i was really struck by last week in the courtroom was just watching the jury was how closely they are following everything. i mean, pretty much everybody in that jury box when i was there was watching and listening very intently. so when we're taking notes, but everybody was that the way it was really agree in today was kind of, you could say a slog of de you could say nuts and bolts stay, but it would've been a day that a lot of jurors would have phased out. they were they were attentive. they weren't like wrapped and taking up, but they were attentive even through the afternoon i think the idea that as the controller said, donald trump basically almost fired him for paying what i mean the implication is that donald trump actually owed this money, but he was like, i need you to make it a smaller number all right. >> that is in your photo what does that mean is not paying and people dipping them and being like, oh yeah, what are you going to do? >> his attorneys now demand retainer fees is largest part because there weren't chris

kaiser works from are now got $5 million upfront before he did any legal one hour away and it's amazing in a way that michael cohen actually was paid because donald trump, just typically, whether it is legitimately owed are not typically does not want to pay what is owed, let alone three times, right? remember that he wanted to go into past the election is then he wouldn't have to pair. but somehow 12 checks, nine and then signed by him. there's a little more to this story. >> he didn't pay rudy giuliani. rudy giuliani went to him to seek help for his own legal expenses. he would not pay him because he claimed that he said that lawsuits in his efforts to try to help trump overturned the election results, didn't work. and so when rudy giuliani went to him and said, well, i did all this on your behalf, trump would not pay him and now we're to giuliani is voting his own legal. >> becker said here when cohen went to them, that trump said, he's got plenty of money. we don't need to pay him. and then he did something. >> i mean, this is why so much every de is riding even more on

michael cohen because i'm brought back to the fact that michael cohen decided to tape trump in that i critical moment to say i'm about to make this payment for you, michael cohen knew that he needed the proof. he created the the evidence of it and was ultimately paid back. this is incredibly incriminating and sensitive information for donald trump. he did not want it out there and michael cohen was the one person who knew all about every element of this. so when he gets on the witness stand, there's quite a lot there. it's always been inevitable that they were going to need michael cohen to draw that link. >> and let's remember if we say, well, why should donald trump have to know about the small bore nuances of accounting? because the prosecutor charging with a small bore nuance accounting crime, they chose to charge that they have after lincoln to it, what the prosecutors have been doing. and i think quite successfully thus far is reducing the amount of gap that michael cohen needs to bridge all these documents, all this testimony from david packer and others makes what michael collins about to say and we all know about what is going to be

saying in a couple of days or whenever he takes us, then makes it easier to swallow, easier to believe more plausible. so they're, they're trying to, they know the jury has to take a leap of faith with michael cuellar and they want to minimize that. well, you always talk about that tape where he says to michael cohen, like you just take care of it, right? refresh my record. >> so this is a tape relating to karen mcdougal, a couple of months before the stormy daniels pay off, but this got introduced to the jury on friday and essentially, michael cohen says we're going to be paying karen mcdougal and trump's fine. sure. one 50. how are we going to do it? and michael cohen nundy. i got it. i got it. don't worry me and me and al-awda are going to work actually. >> shrimp suggests & trends, someone who says right, 50, right trump says one 50 and trump says cash. i don't see that necessarily is damning for him. he saying we're just gonna we're gonna pay it in one shot that does, by the way, cash doesn't necessarily mean an envelope filled with hundred dollar bills when someone buys a house with cash, it means a onetime project. and michael cohen understands him to mean that because michael says no, no, no financing, meaning we're going to do this more complex than just a onetime

transaction. so i don't, if i'm a prosecutor, i wish michael cohen never hit secretly hit record on his own client. i don't like that tape. >> it goes both ways. it gives some points to the prosecution, some points that offense. but man, if you're the prosecution, you have that burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. you don't want an a piece of evidence that has useful stuff both ways. >> one thing that we always talk about michael cohen's credibility understandably& i remember, i mean, everyone versus congressional testimony. trump is also on tape lying about what he knew about this. i mean, that iconic moment on air force one when catherine lucy, who i believe was with the associated press at the time, asked him what he knew. he straight-up lies and says he didn't know about it, even though by that time you've already paid michael cohen backboard. so donald trump also has credibility issues here. >> any lied to hope picks? it's clear that she if painter to say it, but she was saying no, cohen, this is not what cohen would do when trump told me that he did it of his own accord. i don't believe it. >> oh, and told hope hicks he did it on his own she testified to that that's not good for colon. >> that's not good for the

different hicks testified that trump told her that cohen did it on his own, and then she followed up by saying but that but she doesn't believe that's not what coincide with her as well that several aspects of this er libman. >> thank you so much. thanks. >> say where there's next. more details from the full trial transcripts? dust out tonight, including a portion of the prosecution step-by-step attempt to do what we've just been talking about, namely established that length at eleia just mentioned connecting the defendant to the alleged crime i'm sue the testimony of one of his former top money man. and later brock reviewed who's got new reporting and what israel may be about to do about a key crossing into southern gaza welcome to the world of spycraft garage glued to the action let's get down. let's get funky what are you concealing you? a communist sympathizer?

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and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. better, changed my life. >> check your eligibility in minutes at get life. indeed.com, how we'd really having with jesse you, martin sunday's at nih cnn we talked

before the break about how prosecutors might tie the former president directly into the alleged scheme and the heart of this case, because earlier times you have to and said it was clear to him that the prosecution has already made its case and the checks don't trump rhoad to michael cohen or not for legal fees and the business records of them were falsified at again, though prosecutors have not yet made clear what was the defendant's role in it? >> all that said prosecutors, today's certainly seem to be trying to make that connection indirectly through testimony from two longtime employees about how the trump organization was run, the full trial transcript released tonight's speaks to that. john berman is back with more so what stands out? well, sorry from the very beginning for the very beginning that mcal angela, who was the prosecutor from the very beginning when he had geoff mcconney h2 is the controller of the trump organization on the stand. he wanted to establish this was donald trump's organization that donald trump was the man in charge of everything. there so this was right at the

beginning question during the time you worked for the trump organization who ran the company? connie answered president trump, colangelo. before 2017, what was mr. trump's role in the trump organization with god, he says, well, i'm not sure he was he ran the organization. he was the brains behind it. he i don't know how to answer that question. chin glandular. when you worked there, did you consider mr. trump your boss or mcconney says yes, it's almost like he couldn't even conceive of anything other than donald trump being paramount in this organization. >> and this is someone who i should know. he's been on the witness stand before he testified in the trump civil fraud trial. he actually got emotional broke down on the stand during that because he was talking about why he left the trump organization, why he chose to retire, and he was basically saying it was because there were so many subpoenas and investigations and how overwhelming this whole process was. >> so this is someone who got on the witness stand who doesn't have an ill view of donald trump and was really able to speak to trump's level of involvement here. the defense in the cross-examinatio n today was trying to paint a

picture of just this sort of chaotic operation that nobody quite understood and outdated too, right? there's a little bit of testimony think was interesting where it was mcconney, or actually it was the woman who testified the afternoon who was in the accounting department under my connie, she said all we had was pull-down menus so when we're classifying expenses, basically, we just had our choice of however many and i just you know, i was the one who put it in as legal fees. so they're trying to paint a picture of just sort of things happening at a lower level in a disorganized way that you can't tie back up to the top. now, i don't know if that's going to fly with the jury. that's clearly the defense strategy. how did you hear based on the transcript. so but that's a good argument for the defense that this woman who is no not a peer of donald trump in any way and not in all that much day-to-day communication with him. >> if she is the one who characterizes the expense that is the crime here at the crime here is the expense. it's not the check, it's not the trump

had to in order to be convicted from head to know that it was being characterized as a legal absolute orchestrate. >> i think that the term that the prosecution has used, he orchestrated it and we'll see if that we'll see if they can prove it. >> i mean, the cases and over they've proven a lot. they haven't so far. here's my summation to the jury, and you're you have a lot of latitude in summation. ladies and gentlemen, we'll know about the trump presidency and we know what his reputation was. he was a macro guy. he was not a micro guy. he wasn't jimmy carter who wanted to know who was using the tennis courts in the white house? >> he didn't even want to read a memo. he didn't want hear anything from anybody. but now these prosecutors, after they've trained their witnesses day in and day out, preparing the pur cross examination. now, all of a sudden, he's mr. detail-oriented. what he's running the country, he can't be bothered with the details. but here for this one check for a billionaire now he's all conservative, detailed prosecution is going to say is

he's detail-oriented about his medea that's what the evidence has also this menu idea first mean it doesn't, could also be argued the other way, which is that if there's a limited options on the pull down menu, trump would probably know what all the pulldown options are in the menu and be like, oh yeah, dude is hush money was not one i will say i will say jeff mcconney, controller was asked if trump knew about the pulldown menu. i have a whole exchange here. let me read this to you because he gets into this a meal, but this isn't the defense is the cross bove asked you just tell let's fight about a series of payments that were made to michael cohen and 2017, right? mcconney says, yes, sir. >> in that timeframe, 2017, michael cohen was a lawyer, right? >> mcconney says, okay, meal bove says, right. and then mccartney's assure. yes. >> and then bobi says, and payments to lawyers by the trump organization or legal expenses, right? >> mcconney yes, sir. bove and you book those payments on the general ledger as legal expenses, correct but connie says, yes. now here's the part that gets into the nitty-gritty of the mds system during your 30 something plus years of the

trump organization, you rarely had conversations with president trump, right? mcconney says very few. and during the instances when you did speak to him you didn't talk about accounting software, did you? mccartney says no you never gave him a tour of the mds system, right mcconney says, know bove you didn't have any reason to believe that president trump understood the details of mds mcconney says correct. mds is the pull-down menu system. all right. i believe but let me make one point though. the prosecution it doesn't necessarily have to show donald trump opened up that pull-down menu and clicked on legal expenses. it's enough if donald trump knew and i think michael cole will say this. but the plan was, we put this whole elaborate reimbursement play together because he knew and we knew it was stormy. daniel's payment and we were trying to hide it so it wouldn't come out for the election. that's enough that they don't have to show that he was clicking brown the mds system. >> i thought i was just going or you're not to me the idea that michael cohen is being reimbursed in the form of a bonus, which is some form of

salary payment plus money that is not paid for actual services that he provided shouldn't that structure in and of itself show the jury that trump knew that there was a scheme to pay michael cohen for things that he had not actually done. >> he's allowed to pay him for things that are not actually done. he's not allowed to put in the books that he did something that was not actually done. it is a confidentiality green. we call a hush money. it's a confidentiality agreement. you don't put in your books $130,000 payment for confidentiality between donald trump and stormy daniels. if he put it down as reimbursement reimbursement to michael cohen in the book that's all it's not a crime because that's what he did he told yeah. >> right he did which one is

it? >> it's not for rent, it's not for a new roof. it's for legal expenses. click and go to something else, someone else who has tremendous credibility, rudy giuliani said back in may of 2018, this about the payment to stormy daniels having something to do with paying some stormy daniels woman 130,000. i mean, which is going to turn out to be perfectly legal that money was not campaign money sorry, i'm giving you a fact now that you don't know, it's not campaign money? no campaign finance violations. so they funneled the true law firm funnels row of the president repaid it oh, i didn't know. >> he did. yeah. there's no campaign finance law. zero. so the like every sean so what does the show was made by everybody. everybody was nervous about this from the very beginning. i wasn't i knew how much money donald trump put it into that campaign. i said 130,000 akin

to do a couple of checks for 130,000. >> when i heard cohen's retainer of 35,000 when he was doing no work for the president. >> i said, but that's how he's repaying that's how we house how he's repaying it with a little profit and a little margin foot paying taxes from michael. what about you. >> do you know the president didn't know about this? i believe that's reading i know about the specifics of it. as far as i know. but he didn't know about the general arranger that michael would take care of things like this sweetie remember that it's been awhile since i saw him really great i'll never forget when that interview happened and how caught off guard shawn hit and he was by rudy giuliani just admitting it, saying that no, michael cohen wasn't doing any legal work and he was just reimbursing them for paying off the porn star. >> i mean, when we talk about

everything we know, now, that was a pivotal moment. no one knew that until rudy giuliani the one went on tv and set it and so even now, trump's attorneys who are born part of his team, then when you ask about that moment there's not really a defense because it doesn't use what rudy giuliani said. >> i don't want to be offensive to anyone. rudy giuliani said is that's how it works. the individual who is trying to did you a confidentiality agreement doesn't write the check to the other person. they write it to the law firm. so the right way to be done here if there was ever to giuliani said he just said the point that he was making there and the takeaway that is that he said michael cohen did not do legal work yet. michael cohen was paid in the led der for legal work. that's what's at the heart of this okay? >> but and that's the bookkeeping that is the bookkeeping issue. but having having done these confidentiality agreements, the client writes the check to me, i put into my escrow account, i write it to the other attorney and the other attorney gives it to their client. would

documentation that's a waves. arthur but he just used the word book heck, bookkeeping issue. another word for that is crime. it's not it is a crime if you lie in the bookkeeping what is the crime? if the client says three, arthur, i want to enter into a confidentiality agreement with this person for cordova million dollars. here's a check made out to authorize dollar attorney at law escrow account i put it in my my escrow account. there it's their money. it's in my escrow account now from there, i write it to them let me ask you this had a crime. if you have had a client pay you back over 12 months with one large retainer check each month for a total of triple the amount you laid out no, because i know the short answer is no, but i don't have the type relation with any client the way michael cohen has with donald trump. he's an in-house counsel. he would rudy said is they had a general arrangement that michael cohen would fix things, would take care of these things for him. he said a general arrangement that is not as devastating as it may seem when you look look at it from a leuser law

professors point of view. >> all right. next crime rods on berman. thank you. you can try are more on the whole notion of a president writing checks to his fixer in the oval office when he was one of his former top advisor for white house communication director less so far, griffin on what she makes it at all and what voters might as well beyond saves new album is breaking records gaetz to what country? combi country bianna say, nashville's renaissance streaming exclusively on macs you let me just say, i love planet fitness try now planet fitness and dang, they got lots of equipment, not me. >> getting a planet fitness membership just for the 24 hour perk. >> listen, the pf black art is worth every penny for this hydro massage. i'm a new man. >> did you know that the pdf has workout you can do at home keep his therapy i can find is planet fitness all the

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normal di like lee, i've given myself a small raise, join we had trying.com. >> i'm someone's are 40 in washington and this is cnn earlier. >> and i would play that famous moment from aboard air force one and 2018 when don trump became the first president to be asked about where his attorney got the money to buy a porn star. silence the answer, of course, was from donald trump six years later, a jury will decide whether the business records of that

transaction were falsified and done. so at trump's behest, joining the panel, former trump white house insider, his former communications director, alyssa far griffin so i mean, do you buy elicit the idea that then president trump was signing checks in the white house to michael cohen without knowing exactly where they were, what they were four. >> well, so i've got kind of a mixed perspective. i want to respond something arthur said because i think largely made a good point that donald trump doesn't get into the minutiae of things. but if there are two things he gets into the minutiae of it's anything public facing, how he's gonna be perceived in the press and money in my experience, press, if there was gonna be something that went out under his name or that became a story that he did. he was incredibly hands-on, incredibly engaged, wanted to direct narratives. i did not deal with him as much on the money sayyed, but we would hear it from dealing with the campaign& on the outside that he's notoriously a tight wad. he's not somebody who he does pay attention to, how he's spending his money. so i think that's where that kind of an argument falls a little little bit. it's two areas that's just well-documented that he pays attention to, but it's certainly what his side is going to argue and it's not

about argument. >> be careful, you might get called to just your witness. i mean, those are exactly the elements of the case, and i think that they would want to hone in on wine. the idea that he cared about how he was see if he cared about whether or not people knew about the stormy daniels thing at that particular moment, and that he cared about his money. he didn't want to pay it. he didn't part with it lightly. to me. i can't think of two more important parts of donald trump's personality that are at issue in this case, minus the whether or not he knew whether it's just what they were four, this is what makes it hard for the prosecution that you can't really make an argument beyond a reasonable doubt, which is well, of course, he knew of course this is how we behave let's assume, i mean, maybe you're right and that you just can't i mean, if you are having a conversation here about someone in the news, you can make that conclusion, but to the jury, you really need to say witness xx said x,

that shows donald trump knew what was in these papers. and i have to say, i'm no fan of donald trump. i would not vote to convict at this if i were on the jury. i don't think that the case has been made there. i think the intent on the campaign sayyed. yes. but on the money sayyed, it's very complicated. today was not a sexy de and i do think that document was powerful. >> the weisberg yes, the notes. >> but even so, it does not necessarily make that direct link to him knowing it. >> and do you believe knowing what you know, and the importance of alan why sold bergen their relationship weisberg new we're all the bodies were buried essentially, he's gone to prison in order and is not speaking, you can make an educated assumption, but that's the hard part, but the prosecution potentially are the defense wanting to call stormy daniels i don't think that's particularly relevant to the case. >> it's not illegal to have an affair with an adult film star it's salacious, at sexy, it'll get people to tune in, but they have this one link they need to make without a shadow of a doubt. and it may be that michael cohen is the only

person who can make that link and he's so flawed in this moment or yeah, i do wonder though if stormy daniels would be able to offer for insight into michael cohen not being able to operate without donald trump's authorization. and the fact that he was stringing her and keep davidson along. they felt like until after the election and saying, well, i can't get in touch with them. hizon, on the campaign trail, are i can't go to the bank. i can't do this. she could potentially shed light on they're receiving end of those conversations and what they heard so for the detail oriented stuff, i mean, the idea that trump is not do, don't oriented it. he is what it's something he cares about when it's something he doesn't care about. sure. has intelligence prefers will tell you he stopped paying attention five minutes into their briefing. but remember when donald trump was leaving office, they stopped putting out the daily schedule, which every president has always done their daily schedule, what they're doing, it would just say that president trump was very busy making many phone calls and having many meetings because he was upset about about instructed the lower press office. >> did you write those it was

somewhat beneath let's say i was in a much higher ranking position than the person who actually put this schedule out, something like a fourth grader would write like the president was very busy making important phone and they put it out every single day for the last three weeks of his white house because that's what he wanted it to say. >> he didn't want it to say that he had nothing on his public schedule. he pays very close. >> but the fact that the fact that donald trump made both most of these reimbursements in 2017 when he was in the white house is interesting cuts both ways. on the one hand, it suggests, well, he was so interested in this, he was so invested in this that he was taking time out from what he was doing as the president to make sure that these checkout signed and got to michael collins. the counterpoint is well, he was barely paying attention on cross-examination they emo above. i ask the witness, well, in 2017, he was focused on being president, not these payments. so i'm sorry to say that. like each side of every fact, but this is how trials go. the defense is going to have a spin on it. the prosecution is going to have spent i wonder, i know alyssa, you didn't know trump really until the later parts of his time in office. but was he at

all focused on his personal affairs is business pump org when you knew him or was it all sort of you was if it was something that again was going to spill over into the public eye like he had largely kinda hit handed that off to the sons, were dealing with it. >> but if there was a bad story, if there was something, we'd always get these about his taxes are about his business dealings. he would care about how he's going to play in the preska you're getting a subpoena. i mean, sorry maybe she's already been met thanks to our panel, more breaking news, israel says it is conducting targeted strikes in raffa and urging civilians to evacuated the eastern part of the city of los earlier said they accepted a ceasefire proposal. >> but israel says it's not the one that they'd crafted with egypt. the very latest next i'll scoop of stories was at the absolute peak of his celebrity in olympic heroes shovan murdered dr. we learned a much darker individual power would really happen with jesse l. >> martin sunday at nine on cnn if you're living with hiv imagine being good to go

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israel hamas war in gaza and other csp. our proposal is on shaky ground. israel now it says its military will move forward with its operation in raffa where it's ordered evacuations immediately. the sound of gunfire could be heard a short time ago from the egyptian sayyed of the raffa border our next guest reports that is really forces are moving to take over the palestinian side of the rough er, border crossing. in the next few hours in political and foreign policy analysts, barack ravi joins us now. so what are you hearing about? what's happening on the ground right now? >> good evening, anderson. so as far as i know, the israeli forces are in the surroundings of the rough crossing. this was the aim of the operation that we saw tonight to take over the palestinian side of the raffa

crossing which is a strategic site that is, really important for hamas, not only because it's the border between egypt and gaza, but also because this thing is cymbol for the fact that hamas is still the ruling power in gaza and without the raffa crossing, a lot of this image for the palestinian population as a whole is being tarnished and that's one of the goals of this operation including also to put more pressure on hamas leader. it has seen war to maybe move and be more flexible in the hostage talks. >> tom freeman in the last hour suggested that one motivation of going into this area and holding this area was smuggling in by hamas from egypt, that this is a smuggling route yeah, that's part of it, although the the raffa crossing itself is not where the most of the weapons were smuggled into gaza. >> there was smuggled mostly through tunnels, but the fact that israelis now at the

crossing we'll give it another opportunity to do something. it hasn't it hasn't done since the beginning of the war. and this is from what i hear from sources where we have direct knowledge of this is that these rallies plan in a few days or a few weeks? to bring palestinians were not connected to hamas, to take part in the operation of the crossing and in the distribution of the a that is coming from egypt. and this will be the first instance where there might be some sort of a governmental alternative and initial governmental tentative to the hamas rule in gaza. >> who would they be? >> that's a good question. if you ask benjamin netanyahu, he will tell you palestinians were not part of hamas. if you ask minister of defense, you have gallant. he will tell you well, in hamas there are two kinds of people, either hamas or fatah,

which are the political rivals. hamas, they're affiliated with the palestinian authority. so most jenzen-jones are that those are exactly are going to be the people even if prime minister netanyahu is still saying that he will not accept any presence of the palestinian authority in gaza. i think this, is where this thing is going in terms of the hamas said that they had accepted a ceasefire proposal. zero says it's not the one that they had been agreed to with egypt urban working on with egypt. what do you know about that? >> what i think the israelis were pretty surprised hearing commands today, announcing that it accepts a ceasefire proposal when especially because they did not know that there's any new proposal that we're not aware of. and when they saw the text, they saw this is not we were discussing. this is a whole new thing. and one of the things i hear that israeli officials are also pretty

frustrated with the biden administration that even though cia bill burns was not talking to hamas, he was there in cairo over the weekend when this new proposed puzzle was being drafted. and the israelis telling me that they did not know that burns or any or other people from the biden administration were not transparent enough with about the fact that there's a new proposal that is being formed. >> so what's the reason that hamas would make that announcement? >> is it i mean to sort of get on the side of looking like they're they're being rational, they were willing to have this ceasefire and then israel says no and especially, to do it when they know that israel is making steps, initial steps to go into raffa the hamas wants to stop this operation or wanted to stop the separation did not succeed and they tried to push the ball to the israeli sayyed of the court

it's now the israelis are saying, okay, we will go to cairo maybe tomorrow, maybe they later to discuss this new proposal, but they also say this is not what we put on the table ten days ago. >> this is something completely different and therefore, it is almost as if we will have to start the negotiations from scratch? >> rock reviewed it's great to talk to you. thank you we're now with cnn, chief national curating correspondent alex mark coordinate seen the military analyst and retired henry lieutenant general mark hurdling, alex, i know you've been tracking us involvement and ceasefire talks or negotiations is brar just mentioned bill burns, cia director, was in egypt. >> what do you know about the director's role in all this? >> he was in egypt and then he went to doha where we believe he's still is. he's had a very central role in all this and anderson barack is absolutely right. there's been a real evolution in the past week, egypt was working on something that israel had some input in. and then we understand that the talks between egypt and hamas

were progressing thank but in a way that the us and qatar, both of those are two other mediators felt that israel would not actually end up agreeing to those terms. so they kind of took hold of that framework. i'm told and when burns went to doha, he worked with the qatari prime minister to rework the language that was then handover, hand it over to hamas and that's what hamas eventually responded to. now anderson is you've noted hamas is saying that they agreed to the framework. what we're told by us officials, it's more that they responded and they had a take of their own and we've seen a document from hamas that is still good to have, still has significant gaps with israel the good news is that the talks are progressing is brar mentioned there? they're going to be going on in cairo. israel is expected to send a team. qatar is expected to send a team. the less good news is that is not happening at a senior level. it's happening below that bill burns level at what we call the working level or that experts who go over the finer points. so these talks

are inching along but significant gaps still remain. anderson, i'm in general hurtling in any negotiations. it's odd one, sayyed said they've publicly make a statement saying they've accepted a ceasefire deal. what do you make of hamas saying that? >> well it was fascinating today. i that hamas announced or someone announced that they had accepted the deal that hadn't been coordinated on both sides is alex just said, but here's the important part. i think one of the things that we're overlooking as the element that affects combat and warfare that both tactical and the strategic level is time. since the start of this war, time has been on the side of hamas. it's a critical part of their strategy along with their tunnels and they've wrap themselves around the palestines so that anything that can help create more of a humanitarian crisis our gives israel a bad image is something that they want to do. it isn't just their approach. it's their strategic objective. and we're seeing that today is as soon as

first of all, when they talks were going on over the weekend, as you know, hamas launched 15 missiles at one of the crossing sites and killed several israeli soldiers. israel walked away at that point and said, we can't can't continue to do this, then today they announce it all the palestinians are shown dancing in the streets of gaza and israel now is the bad person because they're conducting a rough operation. we say said they were going to do if they hadn't heard from hamas about release of hostages. >> so it's continuing the work against israel anytime there's a delay when time is on hamas aside, it is not on israel side from a strategic perspective because we're seeing the world increasingly turn against anything that israel, alex, what are some of the details of the proposal that hamas allegedly accepted? well interested in from, from the way it's laid out, it looks like the first phase is expected to be the easiest probably. >> and we've been talking for weeks, if not months about a

multi-phase deal, three phases each expected to last around six weeks. the first one the hamas is expected to release around 33 israeli hostages but anderson, we're also learning they may not all be alive. these would be women, men who are elderly men who are sick and wounded. but if hamas doesn't hit that 33 number they would be expected to compensate with bodies and they're around 30 plus israelis who are believed to no longer be alive hundreds of palestinians, but also get released from israeli prisons goblins and the southern part of the strip would be expected to go back up back up to the northern part of strip, but anderson, those sticking points that i was talking about hamas wants to see israel pull its military back. if not entirely out of the gaza strip, but away from central gaza, that's something that israel hasn't shown any inclination to wanting to do the others. the question about a permanent cease fire. hamas is made clear they want a permanent cease fire. but again israel, i said that they still have lot of

work to do to eradicate hamas. and that's why we're seeing the beginning of this operation. and raffa, alex marc origin no more cartilage. thank you. the news continues, including shanon special primetime coverage. the foreign presence, hush money, trial, more after a short break we're here to get your side of the story. >> this guy who was a crusader against human sex trafficking is actually a customer. >> it's someone at the white house blow the cover the cia operative, this is hard to find. >> she's still endangered the staff said he was hiking the appalachian trail when did you realize you might actually be going to prison? yes you can't write this stuff. united states of scan with jake tapper now streaming on macs three sandals

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