so i don't know what she's really going to add and therefore, what purpose there is to attack her credibility. >> do you think trump ultimately testifies here? >> what's your sense i don't think he should. we'll he obviously that's his choice that a decision that really comes down to the wire and based on how the trial has progressed up to that point of is it worth it is it worth taking the risk to have them testify or do they think that they've made their point without it? you think i personally would suggest that he probably should not. does it increase or decrease the chances of a conviction if he testifies? >> oh, i think it would significantly increase because if the jury disbelieves him on anything however small that's something they're going to hold against him. and be much more likely to convict ten parlatore got more questions for you. we'll be back with you and join you as we got much

more coverage of this coming up. thank you for joining tonight and thank you all so much for joining us tonight. seen a news night with abby. phillip starts right now the trucks show makes its main character bystander. >> that's tonight on new sign good. >> evening i'm abby phillip in new york tonight, donald trump becomes savoy year in his own story. today, the country her the beginnings of a story about donald trump. but this time, he no longer controls that narrative instead, it's new york prosecutors who are painting a picture of an alleged hush money cover-up scheme where the victims were the american public. now in 20 own version of events, he says he's innocent, a victim of michael cohen's vendetta and stormy daniels opportunism. but he's not a control of that

narrative either. trump, who believes he is his own best spokesman and defender, will now have to leave it to his lawyers. now, as you can imagine, this is why we've seen trump letting loose outside of the court. he's trying to take back control to take his own story in his own hands, even if it means risking his freedom and running roughshod over the rule of law what are they going to look at all the lives that in the last line in the last trial so he got caught lying pure and what are they going to look at that? >> i just want to say before we begin, these are all biden trials. this is done as election interference cnn legal analyst joey jackson is at the magic wall to break down the key moments in the prosecution and defense is opening statements. so joey, what stood out to you? >> so what is this case about? what stood out is the facts and

the evidence& let start with the underlying theme of the case. the violation or no violation of new york penal law 175.10. that is falsifying business records right now falsifying business records, how do you get to that issue? in this case, you get to it because you have to have an intent to defraud, but it's not only that you have to have a further intent. right. not only to defraud, but because you're intending to commit another crime or aid or conceal in the commission thereof. that's significant. that's relevant because it gives the prosecution to burdens one that we have false documents in to why were they doing it to cover up the election. so let's start talking about what this is all about. prosecution's case in a nutshell, prosecution came out swinging, speaking to the issue of this being a conspiracy and a cover-up. now important to note, conspiracy is not something that's charged, but what does it bring to mind? it brings to mind a number of people involved in an

event that was illegal. who are those people we see them there. we see donald trump. we see mr. we see cohen, we see stormy daniels. the objective is to establish that they collectively work together to do what to influence the left action. what do we see right here? this is a ballot box and if they were acting in conjunction trumping the mask of mine to otherwise interfere with the election that gets you falsifying records with the intent of committing another crime, influencing that result. now you don't have to believe says the prosecution anything that saw me he daniel says anything that michael cohen says. look at the hard evidence and what does that hard evidence? this is a check right here. and who's that signed by donald j. trump and his another check. and that's made out, right. revoke able trust account. another check, hard evidence, prosecution says, don't rely upon those two right. these two stormy daniels, michael cohen, rely upon the cold, hard evidence that's their argument. now, we

pivot to what the defense has to say and what do they argue? they argue that non-disclosure agreements, non-disclosure agreements happen every day in twice on sunday. that's an important part of litigation. you want to settle the case, you settle it by hand. having people not talk perfectly legal and legitimate and what else do we know that they say donald trump knew nothing about this. he was in the dark and by the way, he was running for president. and if you want to talk about the issue of influencing elections, so what it's a democracy, and not only is it a democracy, but this is what the prosecution brings to bear. these two witnesses, you know, they're going after michael cohen as they did perjurer liar, you know, they're going after stormy daniels, they do that. what's the issue? the issue is beyond a reasonable doubt is not proven. they have their acquittal broken down like approach always standby for us. i'm going to come into the studio joining me now for more as former watergate prosecutor, nick ackerman assistant law professor at brooklyn law

school. alexis hogue, and former new york state assistant attorney general, kris stays act he broke it down pretty well. their neck. what do you think the skill level was in terms of the prosecutors actually hammering that home to the to the jury, that this is a criminal conspiracy and cover up emphasis on the cover up. right. but they also didn't just say that the evidence was michael cohen and stormy daniels the fact of the matter is there's much more to it than that. it's also david it's also various people who were working for people who are working for trump. it's a hard evidence is not just the documents, it's also a tape recording in which donald trump is heard discussing the payment to karen mcdougal on tape in his own voice talking about even paying are in cash. so i think this is really just distorts what the evidence is and what the government is claiming they're not saying the hard evidence is. michael cohen and stormy as stormy

daniels. it's all of this evidence together that all supports each other. that's why they have david is the first witness. he lays the groundwork, sets out the entire scheme, and from there, it's almost impossible not to believe michael cohen especially after they bring in this tape, which they've already alluded to in their opening which was kind of a weird thing to begin with because yet to ask, why did michael cohen ever taped donald trump? i never knew the answer to that it came up in the opening. it was because he had to convince that trump would still pay the money that was owed the hundred and 15,000 for karen mcdougal, 150,000 so he taped them in order to get back on track. so is going to say he heard the tape and you're going to hear the tape through michael cohen what else was there for the jury not to believe? >> let's there for the jury not to believe. i mean, the defense would say what part of

this is? which part of this is a crime? i mean, people are influencing elections all the time, catch and kill is not a crime to that you say, i think the big, the biggest problem trump's going to have as michael cohen. but the biggest problem the prosecution is going to have is michael cohen because we all know whether you liked donald trump or don't like them. he used cohen used to be his lawyer, so that would make a reasonable juror. thank well, this guy has got something to say that's valuable. he represented him, trump trusted him sure. that's one. on the other hand, though, these are just the facts trump. cohen is a convicted liar, convicted felon lied to congress. tax evasion. and what the defense is going to do, abbe like what you just said when it's their turn to cross-examine him, they're going to say, don't you have and i think you used this word in your intro, isn't a true you have a vendetta so i think even as early as less than or this morning, cohen was tweeting at trump. he's been on tv every day, which is his right to do. but if i were the defense, what i'm gonna do is play for the jury some of the

statements that he's made on all the major networks recently, saying how much she doesn't like donald trump. and they're gonna say, see, he doesn't want like our client. >> i don't think liking is really the issue here is whether or not he's telling the truth and what michael cohen is going. he's a convicted lie, right? >> but he's going to say the reason he lied, he was lying for donald trump. that's why he lived and wise, we're all before he was caught and brought to justice, but guilty. >> another element of this, though, is it's about trump himself. part of what trump's lawyers and trump himself is arguing is that i didn't i'm the ceo of this company. i didn't know how these records are being created. that's not my job. i hire all these people and pay them a ton of money to do that. >> and that's where we have the phone conversation that nick is talking about and we have the people, the state of new york, letting us know what we're going to hear as evidence. and the state, they're all very well-versed attorneys. they are not going to over-promise we're deliver, if anything, they will under promise and over-deliver here. so we know we're going to hear trump's own voice on recorded

conversation, speaking about how much do we have to pay. and of course he's speaking about mcdaniel. so the other individual who is alleged to have of sexual encounter with and so we've got we've got trump's statements, we've got conversations with cohen. we have his signature on documents and it's it's it would be disingenuous for the defense to say that trump knew nothing about this and this idea two of their having to be some other crime at issue. it's that he had an intent to defraud& so, you notice that this other crime that's alluded to in this top charge isn't actually charged and it doesn't need to be, it's just as the conspiracy part. >> it's not conspiracy. it just has to be an intent to commit or a violation of the election laws, both state and federal, and intent to commit tax fraud. you don't have to prove that. all you have to do is really show the intent to actually have done it et right. it's like it's also combined with motive what people are confusing here is motive and

what you actually have to prove as elements. >> so all of this raises a really important question which is about the jury i think some people have reasonably ask the question is it the simpler argument that has the upper hand here? if you say to a jury, there, they're all corrupt, they're all trying to influence elections were part of that is illegal. is that easier to understand? is there a risk here that the prosecution, what they have to do is more complex and more difficult than what the jury has to have it's to figure out what the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt is basically that trump was cooking the books and that these pygmies, 34 documents invoices, ledgers said something that they didn't actually reveal. and cooking the books is all this jury has to decide the books is a great way to say it. and if they if the prosecution can demonstrate that definitely the problem is going to be abbe to your point politicians literally sent to george washington had been

trying to cover a bad information about them about themselves press secretary's do it every day they call up reporter and say, this isn't really what it looks like. we don't think you should run with the story that's one thing. it's not criminal. but if they can link it to cooking the books or election federal election violations, then you have a case. the only other thing that i would point out and again, i worked for congressman elijah cummings democrat on house oversight and ed towns. all democrats. so i'm just saying what if i was going to be on the defense team, which i'm not the other issue is going to be if if in addition to cohen's issues with credibility, the problem is going to be if trump can say, well, i really did it. it wasn't to commit a crime violate new york city he's not going to testify, don't think but saying it was too so i didn't hurt my wife. i didn't hurt my if you look at this testimony today, you look at the transcript, what they're saying is after the after the election, they wound up taking back these non-disclosure agreements. they let mcdougal free and clear of that in the

in the indictment they provide evidence that trump actually didn't want to pay stormy daniels ultimately, he wanted to push that off as far as possible because he figured after the election it doesn't really matter whether the information this trial is so simple in the sense that i used to do these all the time. and with accomplice witnesses, i had one guy who must have committed 12 murders. he admitted to that right out of the box and i still convicted everybody. and it's because i was able to show that what he was saying was truthful through other witnesses, through other testimony, through documents, through people who had no ax to grind all people from different parts. like you're going to hear, hope, hope hicks talk about this. she's going to corroborate michael cohen corroborates michael cohen, michael cohen corroborates it's from my standpoint, this is an overwhelming case you have you have the documents as well. >> and so calm and of course, he's got to get up and any any good opposing counsel is going to impeach him, any witness

that is on the stand is open. two impeachment to cast light on their character for untruthfulness. so we know that's going to happen. and it's no surprise. there. but all the other elements, the other testimony will hear the recorded phone conversations and the documents all hang together and corroborate the evidence that the people are presented but don't forget, we haven't heard all the evidence. >> just the opening. >> it's funded it's attackers, one day one of what will be four to six weeks of this trial. >> everyone stand for us. we've got some breaking news coming up. we're now getting word that one of trump's co-defendants in his class if i documents case was told that he would be pardoned once trump was elected. but what does that mean for that case? and we have more breaking news now, protests rafat on college campuses across the country. the scene tonight at nyu in manhattan isurning chaic and chaotic fast. we dhave a reporter in the crowd standby for a live rept. and breaking news and news night with abby

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>> is breaking news we have breaking news as protests have been erupting on college campuses across the country over israel's war in gaza. >> tonight, they are turning chaotic in the middle of new york city, officers moving into arrest members of the crowd at nyu. cnn's shimon prokupecz is live in downtown new york city shimon, what's happening now? >> right? so we're outside the

business school nyu in the west village. >> i just want to show you the massive police presence here. >> this is on school grounds, this is just outside the business school. >> you're seeing this massive police presence after the school had asked the nypd to come on school grounds? to remove a number of protesters who had set up an encampment. >> and what the school says is there were about 50 students who were on the school grounds in this encampment and they told them they needed to leave. and when students had refused to lee, what happened was they say that outside elements it's people who were not part of the school came onto the school grounds and then they ask the nypd to move in. clear the camp man remove the students i wanted to read something that nyu says that what sort of shape there you got to bring

them onto? the campus they say that there were anti-semitic chance that there were other disturbing chance. and so aza reason so this is why they asked the nypd to come in also, they said that it was just becoming too dangerous and so they needed to get the students out. >> i want to show you what's going on across the street as well. there are other people who have gathered and they've been out here chanting. there are in a standoff, they are right now with the nypd for now is allowing them to remain on the street. we did see nypd officers moving down the steps are one point and the protests it's back get off right now. this is a standoff the other thing that's significant here, and i'm told this by the nypd is that faculty members were also so arrested that what the nypd says that when they were moving in to make arrest here behind me, you could see the

nyu now cleaning this area after they removed the protesters from their camp grounds faculty members are actually locked in arms. they they stood in front of students, in front of the protesters to prevent the nypd says to prevent them from making arrest so that's certainly something very different from what we saw at columbia last week where a number of students were arrested here we have students faculty members, as well as protesters who are not part of the school day nypd says that were also arrested. so for now the nypd remains here. >> we'll see how long they're going to allow the protesters yet to remain in the street before they put them. >> or perhaps maybe all right and more arrests? >> yeah. and sharon, i know you've been over at columbia all day. this is a story that

is playing out here in new york city yale. one of the issues it sounds like at nyu is according to the school reports of intimidating. can as you've been on the ground, there, do you have any indication of what might have prompted that kind of crack down and since the arrests have been made hey, have you seen any confrontations that have turned violent no. >> i mean, they've not been any confrontation confrontation since we god here we got here are short time ago after the arrests have been made, or we saw some of the protesters pushing on the barriers here. >> but police officers are standing there ground they're just standing there at this point. >> they've not been ordered into the street to move the crowds. there are some people you could see here that are occurring plus the street. and right now, the nypd is just allowing them to remain to your other question, abby the end,

we'll the school nyu issued a statement and they said that they didn't really want to do this. they didn't want to order the nypd to come in and remove protesters students. but they say that because people had refused to leave, they had to do it. and they say that they learned that there were intimidating chance and several somatic incidents reported. we don't know exactly what that is. nyu has not told us what what that is but, sir there was enough indication that things were escalating and so they asked the nypd to come in. there's a whole process here to allow police officers onto the school campus to remove students you have to write a letter. you have to the school has to write a letter to the nypd and work with their lawyers to get them onto the school onto school property to make arrest. so all of that was taking place throughout the

day, according to the by bd. and then finally tonight and consultation with the school, they decided to move in and began the process of arresting the protests. there's some students and interestingly enough, faculty members as well. you're taken into custody and that is that is very interesting as we're seeing faculty, both there at nyu and also oh up at columbia, starting to weigh in on how their institutions addressing these protesters as well shimon prokupecz, thank you for being our eyes and ears on the ground there. >> i will be back with you as things continue to unfold, there. but up next for us, breaking news in trump's classified documents case. here, who received a pardon promise and how that impacts the charges against the former president. this is our pharmacy has been in business for nearly 100 years a whopping i have run it for the last 30 american

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and the big problem whomever this individual is for president donald trump so cnn is now learning tonight from a redacted summary of a november 2022 fbi interview that the former president offered someone a clear quid pro quo to walt nauta, his valet, don't worry about lying to the fbi because i will pardon you. now that information came from an interview with a witness who worked in the trump white house? not as attorney tonight is not talking to cnn and lawyers for trump have also not responded to cnn's inquiries. joining me now is former trump white house lawyer jim schultz. jim, i would love to know who you think persons 16 is, but you've seen this document does it give you any clues? >> no idea who persons 16 is. i mean, look, we have to look at this in context and the last read that i had, there was a

first we got to know who made that representation. was it actually donald trump that made that representation to them? was it staff that made the former staff that made the representation to them? what was the context of that representation? all of those questions naibe asked, was it somebody said, don't worry about it, he'll give you a pardon right? was it actually the president, the former president speaking directly to walt nauta i think that remains to be seen. the reporting says that could possibly be the case but either way, i think more facts have to be developed before you just jump to conclusions that there was potential obstruction in this case? yeah so just a little bit more from the document itself. here's what one of the notes from the witness interview says. it says nauta it's also told that if even even if he gets charged with lying to the fbi, potus will pardon him in 2024. i mean, somebody told him that this would be a sort of trump's second term promise and insurance policy, if you

will is how it was is that in your view? >> again, it matters who said it right? if it was someone that at the direction of the former president, again, how was that? you know, how the this information come about? does did this witness have direct knowledge? did this witness actually hear that? can this witness testify to it? is it just hearsay testimony that wouldn't be miscible. there's a lot of things that are going to go into this just from one particular a little bit of notes from an fbi interview doesn't mean it ends up being admissible at trial. and we still we don't know what it was. i don't believe we i don't believe it has been acted upon by the justice department in terms of charges meanwhile, just going back to the trial that is playing out in new york city this week. this trial involves the hush money payments that trump made to stormy daniels. trump after the court session today came out to the cameras. he started talking about michael cohen, his former attorney and fixer, and a witness in this case. he

also said this tonight about the jury in this case. listen that's yogi was pick so fast, 95% democrats the areas, mostly all democrat. >> you think of it as just a purely democrat area it's a very unfair situation that i can tell you trump has, you know, is under a gag order. he keeps repeatedly violating it. how does judge merchan handle that well look, judge marchand doesn't have all that many things at his disposal tools at his disposal, if you will, he could sanction them he could admonish him. >> he gets find them. he can make things tough on his lawyers. i don't think it'll jail them and i don't think it'll jail someone who was running for president united states. i don't believe that's something he will do but that's only possible to turn for someone like donald trump and your point, it's probably not going to happen no, i agree. >> i don't think it's going

to happen and i think he's going to continue time and time again to go out and, you know, in the political contexts, go out there and talk about this case and talk about how bad how skewed the jury may be, because you're in new york city, it's largely democratic area. but again, i think he does have a pretty good jury there as it relates to like, background experience, those types of things. i think he's gonna get a fair shake from this jury. >> yeah. i mean, they they certainly seem to allow in some people, you might think might be disqualified for other reasons, but they put together a jury pool in manhattan, which is actually look, it's manhattan, but it's still a lot of different types of people are in the city and they're represented on that jury. jim schultz. thank you very much for all of that. up. next for, us donald trump is telling his maga supporters to protest outside of the court as he calls out, a pro-palestinian crowds and speaking of i big protest and arrests are

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mom steamer and ninja nemesis this'll a new breed of clean for your most brilliant smile pressed has you covered nice smile thanks, crest 3d white, 100% more stain removal crest i'm jeremy diamond, didn't tel aviv, and this is cnn tonight, jews across the globe. >> mark passover. but looking at the scenes playing out at american universities, seder as this here are being accompanied by fears of anti-semitism and the presence of police. college campuses are seemingly proving in real time just how difficult it is to protect the first amendment rights of students protesting for palestinian rights while cracking down on the insidious spread of anti-semitism ongoing, this evening, we are witnessing dozens of police put

protesters, professors, and students at nyu in handcuffs. the crowds there are refusing to move, they refuse to vacate an encampment of pitch tents near the washington square park and tonight's arrest or just the latest in an ever escalating ladder of tensions over israel's war in gaza. colombia is the most notorious example. more than 100 were arrested there last week. and today, tensions placed student life on hold, interrupting graduation photo shoots with pitch shouting matches classes were held remotely. students were encouraged to stay home columbia& last last nine, other schools have staged gaza solidarity camps that in and of itself is not actually the problem here. the problem is the people who are in those encampments, some of them or infiltrating them, who believe reprehensible and unconscionable things, just take a listen the

anti-defamation league reports that anti-semitic attacks shattered previous records in 2023, reaching an all time high of 8,873 now, earlier tonight, i spoke with david joan at letter a jewish student at columbia university. he is among those who have chosen to leave campus this passover. he and his brothers say, they were targeted by pro-palestinian protesters when they went out on saturday night okay david, thanks for joining me first. i just want to ask you what happened on saturday. >> saturday. this is after four days, the light, the anti-israel protests. there's in colombia had a they were still on the encampment. and so many jews were feeling sad end. me and about 15 other students decided to go out on campus with israeli flags and so just

stand there saying peacefully and we stood there for one hour. and in that course of an hour we were harass people through water at us a student with my brother was assaulted. someone came and grabbed his israeli flag. and when he ran to go grab it back, he was surrounded by a mob. people threw things at him they do a rocket, his head someone stood there with a sign saying, is it alka psalms next targets, which are the hamas military wing i'm saying essentially they want us to die. and so just one hour on campus we felt tremendously unsafe. there was no public safety. and it's just become untenable situation you just mentioned that before you even went out there you said you felt threatened something happened. >> what made you feel threatened?

>> yeah. so people a lot of people are portraying these protests as anti-war protests think that's been the largest injustice of the coverage was going on because they openly support hamas. these we've been saying this for six months now that the. protesters on campus have signed supporting hamas they've been calling for into fatah's with very violent rhetoric saying we don't want two states, we want all of it. but the worst part was over the last six days that mask fully masked individuals fully covering their faces were sneaking onto campus. and we could tell they were agitators and there's just been an we can tell it has been a very unsafe unsafe situation and the university's lost control those mask agitators, as you describe them, do you believe that those people were not students, that they were not

affiliated with columbia because that's been the response from some of the pro-palestinian protesters, which is that they believe that they're being falsely accused of these things when this is being done by people who are not even within the columbia community, what do you think yes. so we know for sure that there are students who like some students who harassed my brother, for example, are people who splashed water on us. they were students but like we can't confirm, we have no idea whether or not the person who threw rocket his head, right? the more aggressive or violent individuals, our students or not because everyone's fully masked and it just goes to show and indicate the problem. what's going on on campus? >> of you have they close the campus to non-students? officially. but now they're claiming that we brought in non-students who are aggressive and agitators. and it's not the students who are creating the problem but when we asked

presidential feet then to bring it in the police to make sure that we're safe on campus. she refuses to do so. >> i'm just wondering. i you mentioned colombia's president. do you think that she should resign as some republicans in congress have asked for i'll say it doesn't necessarily matter who's in the seat of power. it just matters that they enact the correct policies and ensure the safety of their students. so for example, i'll commend president shall feed for taking a strong stance thursday and wish she arrested benny the students who rejected those tense it's trying to bring a sense of control, but there was just this ever since then. they've totally given up on any control of the campus. let's put a tremendous amount of violence and anti-semetic a and slurs when people are yelling at us on-campus, go back to poland right? that can't be confused with anti-zionism. that's just straight anti-semitism and so we just want the policies

because it doesn't matter even if present shafik resigns and another president comes in, they may not, they may not change how they gave you that. >> david just real quick because today the faculty's some of the faculty at columbia actually staged a walkout. they were protesting against the action of sending police in to break up the pro-palestinian protests last week are they wrong? what's your message to them? >> my message is where were you when the jewish students were being harassed and s is slurs are being shouted at us left and right where the orthodox rabbi had to say that we shouldn't stay on campus for passover. so why are they not walking out for us and additionally, i would say that but universities like insistent or inconsistency with enforcing

its own policies when it came to these universities, organizations which were suspended over the last six months, has fomented this environment of hatred towards jews. the jewish students in canvas because it's been gone, it's gone on for six months with impunity and so it's time that's why present should, because in congress to that there has to be accurate and the university has to enforce its own policies and if it does it, then we have anarchy on our campus as we've seen over the last four days. >> all right. david jonah letter or thank you very much for joining us thank you for having me and lawmakers across the aisle have also swiftly condemned reports of antisemitism at columbia in on their new york campus. among them is my next guest democratic congressman jared moskowitz of florida. he toward the campus today along with several other jewish house democrats. congressman, thank you very much for making time to be with us tonight as we're coming into this interview with you, columbia announcing that

they are going to close the campus to in-person classes until the end of the semester which is scheduled to be next week that's a pretty extraordinary, extraordinary indictment of what is going on on that campus right now. my understanding is that you were there for part of the day today and you had a pretty stark message that you think that there's a double standard when it comes to protecting jewish community he's from antisemitism what makes you say that well, thanks, abby. >> thanks for having me. thanks for talking about this on the eve of passover. so let me say a couple of things. first is i was at the university today and it's clear to me that while they are established, a perimeter her outside the university, once inside, the university, there's almost no security. they have completely lost control of the situation entered is letting it ride, which now you've confirmed by this new policy that they're just going to try to run the clock out by going fully

virtual. the end of the year, i can tell so you between the students wearing masks and then going full virtual, bringing back the policies of covid is not going to start slow the spread of antisemitism, but i'll tell you what i, what i meant when i said that on campus today. >> tonight at passover, this was the conversation around the table families are together, extended families together. >> and what's going on at columbia and what they're watching happen now at nyu as it spreads just around the city this is the conversation and jewish parents are asking this question because i talked to them who students go to colombia? the question they're asking is they feel that if this was a minority group are protected minority group which choose are not they don't think that this would have gotten past lunchtime on the first day but for jews, because we don't fit in this box, even though there's only 15 million of us in the country at the end

of the day. we're looked at as differently. and that's why universities have struggled with this because yes, while there is protected speech, free speech hate speech is not protected. and we are well into the realm of hate speech, right? i mean, let's just let us look at what's happening. we were mad years ago when we saw charlottesville and use will not replace us and donald trump saying good people on both sides or mexicans are rapists right? but something now, we don't have the same anger of go back to poland my grandfather's entire family was killed in poland. he was the sole survivor right all zionists should be killed bomb tel aviv. i know the people saying this aren't white area in males with tiki torches, but they have the same message these students that are participating in this and it's not all of them. but the students that are allowing this

to go on with the hamas flags, letting these people onto campus. the professors that are participating in this it's the same message which is jews are not welcoming yeah, i mean, i think you raised such an important point, which is maybe it's not everyone, but if there are some people in the ranks doing that, should they be expelled or there'd be a willingness to do that. >> i wonder what you think about the university's leadership in this moment? um, do you think as some of your republican colleagues do that columbia president should actually resign as a result of how this has been handled. >> well, i mean, listen, i don't like guilt by association, but if i was participating in a protest and i was trying to do it peacefully. right. and my ceasefire now protests became a bomb, tel aviv protest, maybe i would leave or if we were holding up the palestinian flag and all of a sudden people started screaming pro hamas

things. maybe i would leave, but that's not what happened, abby. that's not what happened. they were integrated and it took five days for them to make a statement saying, oh, that's not us. the only reason i made that statement is because they're losing the narrative because unfortunately, there are being exposed and so look, what should happen to the diversity of president. here's what i recommend to the president of colombia. i don't know what the right thing to do is but if she wants to know what the wrong thing to do is she can call the former president of harvard and upenn, who let this nonsense go on, on their campuses and colombia is way past those two universities. and so while i want students to be able to protest well, i want them to be able to point out in justices what i want them to be able to talk about people in gaza, because that is something we should talk about. we should talk about october 7, and we should talk about humanitarian aid. we should talk about a two-state solution. we should talk about a ceasefire in

exchange for a release of hostages, but that is not what it's going on. what's going on is antisemitism to make jews not welcome when it was announced that classes we're going virtual and thus, jews weren't going to be on campus. these students celebrated. it's not antisymmetric, it's not infect somatic to disagree with israel. >> but if you're only pointing out jewish kids, if they see a jewish kid on campus, and then they go after that jewish kid, right? >> and surround him and blamed him for netanyahu. they targeted that jewish kid that's anti-semitism congressman jared moskowitz, a florida thanks for being here tonight and staying are very late for us, but we needed to hear what you saw today on columbia's campus. >> thank you thanks, abby and makari sellers has a unique perspective on some of this. his father was a key figure of the civil rights movement in the 19 xi's he was actually shot during a college campus protests, who join me live on

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they could be telling you they're stressed to help them feel more calm. dr. phil away, optimum more now on the protests that are rocking college campuses, bakari sellers, cnn's political commentator is here with me in the studio. >> he is the author of a brand new book that will be on bookshelves tomorrow the moment thoughts on the race reckoning that wasn't and how we can all move forward. now, this moment occurring is exactly about the race reckoning. not exactly about that, but it is about protests and it is about how the country deals with that& your father was a key figure in stick she and the civil rights movement he was shot on a college campus. he was there for a major moment when student protesters were killed? >> yes so how do you see this? >> one? i think that antisemitism is on the rise and we have to quash that there's, there's no excuse for the

anti-semitism that we're seeing on columbia yale harvard, the campuses that we're seeing. >> but also, i to kathy hochul, i believe is the governor's name here to eric adams, for example there's law enforcement in college students don't mix there's really no reason for them to be on the campuses. and so for me, i think that there's the balance that to be had and jelani cobb, for example, dean of the school of journalism at columbia is doing a great job listening their students and trying to find a balance. i think the college campuses is an exchange of ideas, but right now, what we're seeing is that, uh, leanness and the ugly belly of what has become well, look, i wonder what you think about what jared moskowitz said, which is he was basically saying if this were protests, would that turned racist? >> and it was about black students being vilified and targeted because of their race but the outcry would be

immediate. do you think there's any validity to that? >> yes. i think jared represented moscowitz was on point today. i mean, i think he was actually accurate today. i think you've had a lot of people who have tried to make this a political statement. i think eric adams has tried to make this a political statement i think that the governor of new york has tried to make this a political statement they, they just have put optics in front of what the real issue is. and what we're trying to do is have a conversation that is necessary because there are people who believe that the response october 7, what is this proportionate it, which is a totally valid valid are in correct. and they're also an individuals who recognize that october 7 is should never happen again. and that negotiating with hamas and negotiating with people who do not believe you should exist is just a non-starter& so i think college campuses or where you should have that discussion the problem is that there are a lot of outside voices that are infiltrating a lot of yelling,

not a lot of discussion happening. i do want to talk though about your book. and one of the key points of this book is this racial justice movement that was kicked off by george floyd. >> we wanted, we were hopeful it was supposed to be and it was supposed to be a moment when maybe the country went into the next level on dealing with race, what has happened since then was that we've i don't know does offer nothing. >> i mean, i don't i don't want to go that far, but i do believe that there was a moment i was on with john berman. i was on with alice kim, aris, and camerota. we talked about after bologna's floyd and ben crump, we talked about where we were as a country and i cried and i gave you my all and i wanted to believe that we were on the brink of change and i think that what we're seeing tonight on the campus of columbia, what we have seen an arizona what we've seen through legislation that's been passed, the attack on dei, the

messages you receive just by doing your job i mean, abby, you are one of the most brilliant amazing, beautiful anchors and pay you to say that, but thank you. thank you. didn't but i mean, just cash at me know. but but you are one of the most amazing people we have right now in the tax you receive because of the way that you look, the way that your hair is, the way that you raise your children, the way that we are trying to be better i think is indicative of the fact that we've taken steps back and that's why i wrote the book. >> yeah. i mean, look, we have to recognize that these things are still having we can't pretend it's not happening, right? and there's a sense in which some people want to do exactly that and pretend that there is no race. so that we can move beyond race. but there's still definitely racism happening in this country. >> what i wanna show this book again. that's my look though. look at how hansen i get my shirt i took to compliment you. thank you for joining us tonight and for being here. don't forget the book is out tomorrow. the moment thoughts on race