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visit xfinitymobile.com today. let's run, are those who can i oversaw alvarez at the white house and this is cnn it's monday, april 22, right now on cnn this morning, juror are set to hear opening statements in donald trump's hush money trial. >> we've got new details about the first witness we expect to take the stand a crisis on campus, escalating a columbia university jewish students told

by a rabbi to stay home for their own safety and the house speaker, mike johnson, apparently saving his job for now after the house passes a $95 billion aid package for israel, ukraine, and taiwan all right. >> 6:00 a.m. here in washington a live look at capitol hill on this monday morning good morning, everyone. >> happy monday. i'm kasie hunt. it's wonderful to have you with us. buckle up opening statements began just a few hours from now. when donald trump's criminal hush money trial, the former president apparently losing some sleep over it. he fired up truth social just before midnight with this all too familiar rant. he writes tomorrow morning. i report to a new york criminal court for a trial on somewhat ironically, election interference. it's a sham that should not have been brought except to try and damage biden's political opponents comma me. >> see you tomorrow morning okay.

>> the prosecution's witness list is taking shape. this morning, david. he is the catch and kill former publisher of the national enquirer, expected to be called first, also expect to testify former trump fixer, michael cohen and stormy daniels, the recipient of the hush money along with former trump aid hope hicks, the former playboy playmate karen mcdougal, and former white house staffer, kellyanne conway. our panelists here, cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, franklin for his staff writer with the atlantic, mac oermann, former senior advisor to the tim scott presidential campaign and kate bedingfield, former white house communications director there is here. good morning to all of you on i mean, how many historic day is l here? we're going to have here but this is one. >> what do you expect today? well the opening statements, first of all, are as the name suggests, it's your first shot at the jury. >> i mean, this is talking about first impressions. this is when you get to make these opening statements should not be lengthy. sometimes you're reading the newspaper about someone giving a six-hour opening. i cringe whenever i

see that you need to get right to it, but you need to establish your themes and you need to set expectations as alert. so the prosecution is going to argue, first of all, their theme is that this is not about just hush money or business records. this is about an effort to do you have 2016 election and they need to give an outline and overview of their case. but they also need to brace the jury. you're going to hear from someone one person in particular, who's done some bad things and sustained some serious convictions. that is michael cohen, they need to address that head-on and say, but you should believe him now. and here's why it is. i get why. i mean, there's some some credibility issues to say. for sure and the defense is going to do a couple of things. i do. the first thing that any defendant does any defense lawyer in any opening is reminded jury 38 times, they bear the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. we don't have to prove anything to you and they're also going to rip into michael cohen. they say they're going to ask you to send this scott will. the jury doesn't sentence. they're going to ask you to convict this guy based on the word of a person

who has lived through every single branch of our federal government. and i think they're going to set and the jury's mind, this is an unreliable case based on unreliable witnesses, so it'll be fascinating to see how they do it. but like i said, first impressions, this is a key moment. >> yeah, not gorman. >> what is your sense of how the politics of this have been breaking for donald trump over the quest's last week as the country has watched jury selection look, there's nbc news plot yesterday that it really huge, 42, 42% or so. the outcome of this trial, how you view it's pretty much based on who you're voting for. i don't think that changes quite honestly much after this and listening incredibly drastic happens. but i think where trump is concerned journal what he can control. i think we talked a lot about what he can't control, what he can show last week you went to this bodega had a messaging of that talks about something other than the trial, about himself. he was about immigration, crime, migrant crisis, winning issues forum kenny, keep doing that. >> can you keep talking about something other than himself when it comes to this trial? and also, can he shou have video of him that isn't just him sitting in a courtroom. >> yeah. >> if he can keep lightening from striking in north

carolina, which has kept him rally this weekend kate bedingfield the biden at team are being pretty careful to stay out of this obviously this is not the biden justice department prosecuting him in this particular case, state case but the optics are what they are. do you think they're handling it the right way yeah, i do. >> i mean, i think the biden team has been well-served by being hands-off on this, both because it doesn't allow trump to seize on the idea that biden is somehow like persecuting him here. so i think that is good. but he's broadly, i think biden has been well-served by a message that says i respect norm it's important for our government to function the way it's supposed to that in and of itself was a compelling message in the 2020 campaign and was effective. so i think that's good. i also think it reflects the reality and it sort of goes to what matt was saying that either way, don't think this trial is going to be decisive in the campaign. now, i don't think it's good for donald trump to be clear. i don't think it's good when the backdrop of your campaign is a courtroom. i don't think this is helping him and it's certainly i think we see in the

numbers it's not helping him build a broader coalition that he needs to build an order to where from the primary at the end of the day is this case is going to be decisive in november, i don't think it is one way or the other, and i think the biden team is being smart about keeping their focus on the messages that i think are going to be decisive, including abortion, the economy and then trump's sense of chaos overall frank four big picture i wanna show you what some of these republican senators had to say last week about the trial. >> and we'll talk about about watch this first are you concerned about that kind of alleged conduct not really because he doesn't seem to be a factor for a lot don't give it a lot of thought. >> justice systems and motion, we'll see if it's a fair trial. >> just think it's too late to contrived and really let's

solve this at the ballot box. >> it's a salacious trial. it makes for good television on his throat, back to the clinton menstruation that senator lankford throwback. what what is your kind of big picture view of this? >> you look? >> so comfortable talking about this trial i mean, they have to be i think we're we're so endured to thinking that trump stuff just doesn't land. but there are a couple of ways in which it does lead. okay. first, is that spending oodles of cash on this. i think a quarter of the money that he's raising is going to pay for his legal fees. >> and then secondly, it's a cultural event media knows how to talk about illegal trial. >> the public knows how to discuss a legal trial. it provides a narrative framework for talking about all these things about trump oj simpson just passed away. kasie anderson, we going through all of these familiar steps and it provides a way for us to process and to discuss these things about the former president that would be hard for a campaign to talk about in

a way that felt fresh. so i mean, yes, it's not going to matter in the end in a decisive sort of way, but it matters case i thought was interesting. one of those members of congress said it was too late, and it is remarkable to think this conduct happened eight years ago. i mean, i have a son who's first year in college. he was in elementary school when this happened, and that would worry me a bit as a prosecutor because you don't like your jury feeling like something is ancient history. you want to feel like it's immediate and the other thing i wonder in this maybe goes to the political effect is this story is known. and then some, now we could, we will certainly get certain revelations. i'm particularly interested in what hope hicks and kellyanne conway have to say. i mean, i don't know that the overall narrative is going to change that much. i don't know if i mean everyone pretty much understand it's paid hush money well, the prosecution would say to silences women before the election and here we are eight years later. so it's a prosecutorial issue. it's also political issue? yeah. all right. >> we've got to take a quick break. donald trump doesn't says he will testify in his own defense well, it actually

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is the easiest way to reduce sugar historic first criminal trial of donald trump. >> that jury has been selected. now, opening statements begin. how will each side lay out the case? follow cnn for special live coverage opening statements in the trump hush money trial starts today and nine eastern you heard it right

there, donald trump vowing to take the stand and sustained. once again on friday, he plans to testify. now we have heard this from the former president before in his civil fraud trial last year, he was set to testify for a second time, but he canceled we've just 24 hours notice. our panel is back. >> ellie, would you do it if you were trump put your testify. can you even answer that question at this stage? >> so that's a that's a really good question because the real answer is you cannot answer it. you don't have to answer until the moment you take the stand, you get one of the benefits of being a defendant is you get to see the prosecution's entire case, see how your lawyer does trying to your mind, it see how you feel, but the short answer, your question. no, hell, no i would not advise him to take the stand. >> there's no reason for him to take the stand. it's incredibly risky. like i said before, the prosecution bears the burden of proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt. anyone who takes the stand is taking an enormous risk. i know on tv everyone takes the stand because it's dramatic it's quite rare in the real-world. here if you're donald trump, i mean, look, it would just be a disaster if you get caught in a

contradiction as a defendant taking the stand, it's over. if you get caught in a lie, if the jury doesn't like you, it's over i would beg plead urge him. i don't think he is going to take the stand. i think he's positioning right now. i just it's so tactically self-defeating. i can't see it happening. >> yeah. i mean, frank, what is trump doing there? it's almost seems to me like he feels like people think he was a coward. if you said no, basically mercury wrong, he has to be there, right. >> ways to physically be there yeah. >> but he doesn't have to take the stage he doesn't have to take the day. >> i mean, i think it's just the type of gloucester i mean, you asked donald trump, are you man enough to take the stand? he's going to say, yeah it's easy to paint him in today's whether he means it or not. i mean, i don't know if he knows if he means that in his own head matt, when you thank you. yeah. no, i think she's written. i completely agree with you. he's going to of course say yes, and then he's going to say, well, i can't do it for this or that. i completely agree and i think le makes it a point where the jury pool so tainted against him and him taking the stand i could

see simply poisoning it, but i think also it's important to remember his message jane about taking the stand isn't necessarily about the trial. it is about the politics of it. and i think he's speaking to a very different audience necessarily than the jurors. i think frank put appraisal. this is i think this is the same bluff he's calling on debates to be honest with you, it's like he's, you know, he's kind of marching around saying anytime, anywhere course, i'll do it but at the end of the de do i think he actually wants to debate joe biden actually don't think that he does, and i think it will be really interesting to see how that plays out, but it's like the same. >> it's the same bravado and it's the same kind of political posturing, but because i'd be surprised if biden i think biden is the one that actually doesn't want to debate, but we can table that for another day. we got enough news. i won't say it look he may not. i would say i actually think he should i think anytime he is standing next to donald trump, i think it's a good comparison for him. it certainly was in 2020, but there's a lot a lot a lot that goes into preparing for debates. so fair enough. >> i'll tell you right now what donald trump's out. we'll

be if if and when he decides not to testify, who go while we just saw their case, it was a disaster esther, they didn't have anything on me. my attorneys tore down michael cohen and they're joke of okc case and they're joke batch of witnesses. they got nothing. i don't need to take the stand. that's it. that's what he'll say publicly i think that makes sense. >> i think a lot of sense and it's also i think it helps that it's not televised, right? so if it was televising, that might be a little different calculation asked me to the voters if he's trying to filter to the media. i think that's a good point. yeah. if this were televised and he were on the stand, that's interesting. i mean, that would be yeah. that would be a moment elie honig, thank you for starting. >> what's gonna be a long day for you with us thanks. appreciate having you all right. coming up next here. jewish students at columbia university urged to stay home for their own safety as campus confrontations intensified plus north korea accused of firing multiple ballistic missiles just hours ago the white. house correspondents dinner live

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helped us get a design we love come together for a cause, get started today at accustoming.com cnn is central next hi, my hope is that the people on the jury will do what is right. and here are evidence and see clearly that this is an unprecedented trial, but it's unprecedented in how ridiculous it is if donald trump is convicted in this trial, we use still support him in november if my choice is between joe biden and donald trump every single day of the week? yes, i will support donald trump. i have from the very beginning south dakota governor kristi noem, one of the republicans coming to donald trump's defense as opening statements begin today in the former president's historic criminal hush money trial. >> but the trump vp hopeful not going as far as some of trump's other potential vp picks when she was asked by cnn's dana bash if she would have certified the 2020 election so when mike pence

said that he talked to lawyers and he felt that he had absolutely no ability to reject the election on january 6th, to think he was wrong when he did that? i wasn't in mike pence's shoes and the information that he had at that time. i don't know how he based his decisions. i think he's a nice man. i think that he's failed to. donald trump since that day because he certainly does not recognize that we need someone in the white house who needs him out on the trail advocating for him instead of constantly criticized ding and going back and ripping them apart all right. >> joining me now is cnn anchor and chief political correspondent dana bash. dana, good morning to you. >> morning so much to talk about from your show yesterday, but that really stuck out to me. >> i have to say what kristi noem had to say there in that obviously the vice president plays a critical role in certifying the 2024 election when we get there, this has become something of a litmus test for potential trump vps

like jd vance and others who will say like no, i would not have done what mike pence did. she didn't go there. what are you going on? she wouldn't go there and poked me a little bit. saying only the media cares about january 6 trump cares about of course, that's the reason i asked the question is because it has become somewhat of a litmus test of for the people who are vying to be his running mate he wants to hear from somebody that they unabashedly oppose anything that has it comes even close to the results of 2020 even though there's, we should say there's absolutely no evidence to back that up. and he's still obviously harbors a lot of hatred, frankly from my pens for doing what he did following the law and following the constitution. >> it was a bit surprised. >> i didn't know how she was going to answer that question, which is why i asked her if she's actually if she thinks she's not going to get pick maybe, but also remember she

was a member of the house, which i guess that doesn't really at least a phonic is a member of the house and she very much said she wouldn't have app certified and she came to the biden inauguration so she is already very much out there saying the basic, which is joe biden, is a legitimate president, which again is still almost four years later, is my blowing that we have to actually say that that's a big deal. >> my garmin can you tell me what you think is going on with i think one thing don't discount at gnomon pen serve together in the house to just don't just got the person relationships with people have, you know, mike pence, you're lot less likely to really go after him hard for what he did. he likable guy, tim, scott and him like each other. ron desantis, he was even didn't a lot of friends in the house, but they did get along. okay. so i think that's interesting to find the line at least ever served with them, obviously, jd vance never served with him. that's an interesting thing to point out to look, i think stepping back to from leaks,

the comms part of this, what i could see maybe is, look, don't even engage in a hypothetical like if you're, if you're not willing to go and really go for it on that, just don't entertain it. that's what i can see me from communications tactical point of view. well, and she's sort of started to say that at certain points, right? >> like, well, i don't want to have it that up, but then she she actually didn't get you what you make of her answer on the trump trial question she said, well, this is ridiculous but it is a moment where we're testing to see whether republicans across the board are going to call the justice system itself rigged and ridiculous was the word she used it, but but she didn't write she she said that she hopes that there is a fair jury trial. i was prepared for that conversation to go. any different way and ended didn't i mean, she obviously said that the prosecutor is a partisan, that it is a witch-hunt. those kinds of things. but she, she didn't bro the entire justice

system into question. >> having said that, a lot of republicans, i would say most republicans, it's difficult to get them to come on and have a conversation about the trump trial. >> she wanted to she wanted to come on and defend and kinda go out there on why she thanks that this trial that's going on is not right. and be there for the president in a way that other republicans, maybe not those who are interested in the vice presidential slot, but certainly congressional republicans, most of them want to stay as far away from it as they can. yeah. i mean, i will say she is soluble book so there's that. but it is frank. as dana said, noteworthy that she would want to do that. i mean, how do you see not just known, but the entire she talked about congressional republicans that don't want to come on and defend him. here. you mentioned, we saw earlier they were clearly squirming as

manuel was running around. questions on the hill how how do they grapple with this i mean, i got to say like she probably did as find a job. i mean, did you just have to muddle through and doing it in her audition to be the deuce for donald trump? i got to say, did you hurt herself in that interview probably not. i mean, she wears the red baseball cap around. she's his maga as they get in most other circumstances. and so if she gives a little bit of a jumbled answer on these questions, at least she was on their base i mean, basically defending him. i mean, i don't think it's going to injure heard any sort, of grievous way? yeah. i mean, again, i go back to this certifying of the election. if she wouldn't say that she wouldn't have done that we cannot overstate how big a deal that is to donald trump, right? i completely agree with you. so another moment on sunday, that's really stood out what as from congressman at tony

gonzales, who is dealing with a primary challenge. >> she's in a runoff election. but when he was asked about the house speaker, mike johnson, who did put a package of ukraine aid, a foreign aid package on the floor of the house. it passed the house with democratic support. it's earned him praise among moderate republicans as well as democrats. he has talked about history and what it means in this particular moment congressman gonzalez really went after members of his own party using very, very strong language to do it. watch you will survive. look, the house is a rough and rowdy place, but mike johnson is gonna be just fine. i serve 20 years in the military. it's my absolute honor to be in congress, but i serve with some real scum bags. look. matt gaetz, he pd mine to have sex wh them. a drug parties. >> bob good endoe my opponent, a no neoazi. >> these people used to walk around with white hoods at night. now they' walking

around with white hoods in the daytime two months fake i mean, i sort of stopped and he was like, do i need to rewind this purchase again? >> yeah, that's the face that you saw like kate was on the panel as well? >> we all were going oh, my my goodness. did not expect that. but it is so emblematic of the frustration. it just it's just absolutely erupting among republicans who actually did get elected and come to washington to try to get things done. even the most basic from their perspective. which is from a couple of months ago, was recently was funding the government. but in this case, it's defending and aiding a democracy and parallel and it, when it comes to ukraine, also, israel and others, but it to me and the next thing that i asked him was is this part of the revolt, this, i didn't use his words, but i'm using a revolt

of the norm is just saying like we're done, we're done with this, and we're not going to let you go take the whole house off a cliff anymore. any said, yeah, like even people who are mild-mannered, i mean, he's i wouldn't say he's mild-mannered, but he doesn't talk like this. are done with that. i will say he also has a primary challenge, right by some of you're nodding your head supported by some of the friends of the motion to vacate crowd? yeah. no, it was a very impressive moments and it's admirable. >> i think anytime an elected official just truly speaks their mind & unvarnished way we get so used to the kind of equivocating language. it's always sort of bracing to see somebody just and i agree with dana absolutely. that it was clearly a reflection of forester of the frustration that members have felt for very long time about being led around by the hard-right of the party. i do think there's i think there's a sense right now as sort of a hope that what

mike johnson did and then you have republican number speaking out like this. this is we're going to represent a sea change in the way congressional republicans conduct business. i think that runs into a very real reality that donald trump is still the presidential nominee. and it's still setting the tone for their party. and i was talking to a republican who was saying, essentially like, whoa, well, but trump met with johnson and then let didn't say anything thing about preventing ukraine money from getting done and it's like, well, that sort of proves the point i mean, if trump is kind of setting the agenda and this kind of moment of courage, political courage came following a silence from trump and trump could have said, don't move forward, right? are they still being led around by trump? i don't know i've actually i don't say that actually to diminish what's bigger, johnson did because i do think it was politically courageous thing to do and very important request. >> i think couple of things don't minimize the personal animus of how people just don't like each other in the house, like you had here again,

orton called called matt gaetz, tbi earlier the week, right. so like it can be very juvenile at some points. i think part of that is that to be as strategic as we think that's a good point seventh grade all right. all right. next here are jewish students at columbia university warrant to stay home for their own safety. have that plus an early morning break. it the home of the mayor of los angeles every piece of evidence tells a story how it really happened with jesse l. martin sunday at nine on cnn. >> carroll marry me, karen brought a sale on sky writing important things aren't worth compromising at farmers. >> we offer both quality insurance and great savings, quick show or the other parrots, we are oh, numbers looks like a unicorn, quite happy tears all over it i could

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of soda as now in it's called poppy close captioning brought to you by mesobook.com our, firm only represents mesothelial of victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma call us now 45 minutes past the hour, here's your morning round up. the head of israel's military intelligence unit has resigned for not detecting hamas preparations for the october 7 attacks. he is the first first senior military official to resign over the intelligence failures that led to the deaths of over 1,000 israelis with hundreds more

taken hostage an early morning break-in at the home of los angeles mayor karen bass, police it's are investigating whether bass was specifically targeted. the mayor was at home when the suspect came in through a window sunday morning no one was hurt and the suspect was arrested supreme court hears arguments today to decide whether cities can punish the homeless. the debate will surround whether ticketing people who live on the streets is cruel and unusual punishment and violates the eighth amendment a bond hearing today and donald trump's new york civil fraud case. prosecutors alleging the former president can't prove he can back his 170 $5 million bond if his appeal fails, also claiming that the company trump used to secure the bond is not authorized to write bonds in new york right now, this today classes moved online for students at columbia university president's saying, they'll give the ivy league school a

chance to consider next steps. pro-palestine protests have rocked the campus last week, more than 100 people were arrested after the school asked police to remove student protesters. these protests have become vulgar and threatening at times the following video, which was taken on saturday night, was provided to cnn by colombia's shabbat organization a rabbi associated with the school, urged jewish students to quote return home as soon as possible. and remain home for the time being cnn talked to some jewish students on columbia's campus particularly the last few days i've felt uncomfortable around this university i've i felt

like this is not a welcoming environment as far as like walking around on campus, i will say i still feel safe. >> i don't want that to be like any kind of use for these people. they've made at the campus hostile feeling. >> so you're supposed to graduate in a month visit here so you don't get you don't take you go. >> i don't think it's safe panels back frank, four a couple of things you recently wrote the cover story of the atlantic saying that the golden age of american jews is ending. >> you're also a columbia university graduate and were recently on campus speaking to jewish organization. there can you help us understand how we got to this point? >> what is it about the campus that has brought these protests? why these protests are honestly different and worse than not all other protests going on in the country, but certainly they really stick out a couple of things need to be said about the columbia campus. first, it's in the middle of new york

city. in new york city is a place that has always had a very active left. and so you've had a various moments this combination of forces outside the campus merging with camp courses inside the campus 2nd of columbia has this incredible legacy of protest. and so i think that when students meet a moment like this, it almost feels like is if their duty as columbia students to go join the protests. i know i did when i was a columbia student and then third of all, it has this history of middle east studies department that's always been especially radical on the palestinian question. and so you have students who've been taught by professors to have the sort of impassioned activism that's been on display. and then no university has figured out how to deal with these protests, whether the protein this has been very disruptive to live on campus are good reasons for the university president to come in and to try to deal with the chaos that the university

continue to function, so that there's not a hecklers veto that's happening where the loudest, it most radical voices have control over the discourse. but what we've seen is is that by going in and cracking down, it's just further inflamed the situation. it's becoming about more than just a pastime and when what's happened is protesters say that they're just criticizing israel. and i believe that in a lot of their minds that's their intent, but there's a whole vocabulary that they have for talking about what's happening on campus that veers almost directly into anti-semitism, were they accuse jewish donors, they accuse a jewish, jewish forces in the world for ordering the crackdown. it's not the university president acting on her own those are straight up anti-semitic tropes right there that you outline. yeah it's an even go further. it's not almost anti-semitism. it is antisemitism and this is

something that is on display right now but the roots of this kind of devolving from a to b go back millennia. and this is something the roots of anti-semitism that pop up in societies that frankly tend to be a canary in the coal mine for a society in democracy in this case that is a lot of trouble. >> it is. >> i like to look at this and replace jews with any other minority group. here. and what would the entire country be doing? they would be outraged, rightly so it is not just palestinian rights i got the letter that we rewarded on that the rabbi at columbia sent saying that jewish students, you're not safe here from a parent of a columbia university student. i gotta yesterday morning and this person's

daughter has heard things like, you're a nazi, things like go, go kill yourself and other an even worse, things. >> that's not protest, that's harassment. >> and it is on the brink of violence. and the fact that these jewish students feel so unsafe and it is so systemic when it comes from yeah, ultimately, going back from classes that don't necessarily get policed, that is dangerous and not just classes that don't get policed. it's tas and people are teaching about the middle east in particular, use their position if a soapbox, but i think especially for orthodox students and they tend for various reasons to get written out of people's concerns. but if you wear a kippah, if you have few dress in an orthodox sort of way all of this hatred ends up just being directed onto you on a campus like columbia. they don't know your point of view

about the conflict israel, they're just assumption that get made and they're the ones who suffolk suffered the comments the most the comments that dan dan was talking about that they've really it's it's it's primal. the way in which they just get a sale with this anti-semitism. >> would you feel safe either view with a child, a jewish child attending a university like this right now i think i would have a lot of anxiety about it, but it also makes me sad to hear a rabbis that students should not feel safe going onto campus even with these protests happening, i feel as if backing down and then that's sort of way almost gives the protesters exactly what they want. >> and i think it's really the onus should be on the university to create safe conditions for students when you thank dana. >> i don't know. i mean, i'm i'm i'm mixed. i think that

ultimately it's you can't let let them when and when i say them, i'm talking about like the true hateful comments. it everybody has a right to disagree with the policies of a democratic government. and that is what is happening in israel. people in israel disagree with the policies of their elected government. that does not give people the right to be full line bile and full of hate. and the again, the sort of anti-zionism, anti netanyahu government that has has left the building a long time ago when it comes to what you're actually seeing and not all of the cases, but many of these cases, it is raw hatred towards jews will here so democratic senator john fetterman put it, he was talking about a white house statement. >> let's start with the white house. they said quote, while every american has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting jewish

students and the jewish community are blatantly anti-semitic unconscionable, and dangerous. and then senator john fetterman of pennsylvania. it's actually lost a couple of staffers from his office reportedly because they disagreed three with him about are these these this particular issue. he wrote this i fully agree with the white house. these quote, protests and quote are antisymmetric, unconscionable and dangerous add some tiki torches and it's charlottesville. yeah. for these jewish students to colombia president, do your job or resign so colombia can find someone who will use it so yeah, it is charlottesville, if you add tiki torches, i mean it's not that far off. he's not wrong. he's not wrong. again, this is not this has gone way beyond being pro or anti israeli government, pro or anti the way that they're prosecuting the war. this is we have to learn from history history shows us that when, there is a motivating issue that can allow anti-semitism to

snowball. it will happen and it is happening. we're watching a real-time for the white house here. i mean, obviously we have seen these protests are organized. i also think we should probably note that and underscore it, like yes, some of it is based on frank, to your point, the students were actually at the university, but there is also an organization behind this. they're using what's happened and signal and they are actively trying to put the cause of the palestinians front and center. and as dana has very carefully and importantly noted, we can separate these two things, right? there are people who think that what's happening in gaza is wrong and that is fully within their rights and that's what they are are protesting. but what we have seen at columbia has crossed lines in a way that is just distinctly different. now that said the white house has going to have to confront this repeatedly. they're going to have to confront it. it sounds like we're going to confront it at the white house correspondents dinner here in washington, because weekend, democrats are going to have to confront it. the convention coming from the left of the party, the white house put out a very strong

statement on this. what does that say to you and what this is a very, very difficult issue for them to confront. >> it is. and i think but i think the statement that they put out threads the needle in an important way and that one, it directly, it calls it blatant antisemitism. there's no dancing around it, there's no suggestion that some of the most hateful language that we're seeing emanate from the columbia via campus and from other places around the country is anti-semitic, anti-jewish, and it's important for the white house to say that they also acknowledged in the statement that protest is peaceful protests, which is critically important, the word peaceful, peaceful protest is valid. and certainly you've seen, when you've seen joe biden criticized netanyahu who's prosecution of this war. i don't think that the white house is holding back from being clear about where they believe that the government of israel is making unconscionable

mistakes in the way that they're prosecuting the war. so it is important for them to continue to use the word anti-semitism some to call this out and to, and to leave space for people to have legitimate protest against the actions of as dana said and elected government in the middle east. the other thing i would, i would add here is don't forget, as we mentioned, charlottesville, i mean, that was a big motivating factor for president biden to get into the race in 20 the 19 and 2020, what he saw in charlottesville, i can tell you having been there with him at that time, he was incredibly horrified by what he saw and in many of the same ways that dana was just raising really put it for him. he really put it in a historical context that this is an incredibly frightening dangerous thing that snowballs and what we saw on display in charlottesville in 2017 was was a really pernicious and horrible thing that can very quickly spiral out of control in society. so this issue of

rising anti-semitism and hate across the board as has been. i would argue, fan and by donald trump who's really is personally important to joe biden. and so i would expect to continue to see really direct language come out of the white house on this mat i can't put a better at any better than a lot of the folks out in the panel. >> i mean, i think i agree with frank that they owe these jewish students place to study and live safely. i shudder to think let's, you're paying tuition to be subject to all of this. it's you know, it's insane. >> frank to come back to this and i would highly recommend this story, the atlantic cover story, you say the era of american the golden age of american jews is, ending. can you just, as we wrap up here are what you mean, you could almost do it to the ark of the history of columbia university, which was a place that had excluded jews with quotas. they even created a campus in brooklyn in order to take jewish money of smart kids would otherwise get into colombia and they educated the