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72 hours house speaker mike johnson, hoping enough cover, keep his job and vice president kamala harris taking a fight for reproductive rights two democrats in arizona 6:00 a.m. here in washington alive. look at our nation's capital on this friday morning it's friday. we made it. good morning, everyone. i'm kasie hunt. it's wonderful to have you with us. >> donald trump is going on trial. his delay tactics and legal maneuvers seemingly exhausted jury selection set to begin monday in new york in the former president's hush money trial, that process expected to take a week or possibly longer. >> judge juan >> merchan says he expects the trial to last six to eight

weeks. sources tell cnn law enforcement is deploying a multi-layered security plan on social media. and in the streets of new york city. as trump is required to attend every day. >> and while that could limit his >> ability to hold rallies, he has shown plenty of willingness to turn courtroom appearances into campaign events. in the run-up to the trial, trump keeps making the same claims that all the cases against him are politically motivated. >> all of these crooked cases are brought about by the justice department. in one form or another and crooked joe biden. but the only thing they could do is go after his political opponent a guy named donald j. trump so let's just be clear that that claim is not correct. the hush money case was brought by new york state the doj, the white house have no involvement here, but trump is likely to keep making that claim as we know, he does when he holds a rally tomorrow in the critical swing state of pennsylvania are panels here, republican strategist sarah longwell, former obama white

house senior policy adviser, ashley alice wilson and isaac aren't store whose national political reporter for the washington post sarah longwell, let me start with you. you talked to voters all of the time. what do you hear from them about what we're about to see unfold here. >> well, first of all, there are so many cases against donald trump that for voters, a lot of this is white noise. they can't really tell all of the cases apart that being said, as they come into singular focus as he goes into trial, i've never liked this one going first because just the word porn star, which you're going to hear over and over again, is just the kind of thing that makes people laugh it off, is not serious, even though this is about corporate checks being passed and trying to hide things before an election. so it didn't get out. >> even >> though that's what it's about, like it's the voters are going to interpret this one more. i think a little bit more through trump's frame as this is i'm trying to get me on something silly. then they would something like the january 6 case or the document since case where when they ago taken singularly, seem more

serious to voters than this one does ashley, do you agree with that assessment here and also, i mean, if you're the white house and you're the guy that you're running against is about to go on trial in new york. i mean, surely your apparatus is doing something to prepare for that, at least you're your campaign certainly should be even if it's not in the white house, what do you know about what they are going to do next week? >> well, it's clear that the biden harris campaign is going to use trump's criminal issues as a reason why voters should not trust him. so the campaign is going to be blasting it out using to fund raise. i'm sure, you know, the rnc and the trump campaign in does not have as much money as joe biden. so the trump campaign will be using his court appearances as free political rallies, basically. and when he does that, he says these off the cuff, things that sometimes do not land as well as you would like them to for your everyday voter. and there'll be using those repackaging those and send those out to say see, this is just the case. she had again, of why donald trump is unfit to be president. now, will that

work? i'm not sure if it's a sarah's point, because there are so many voters are confused. the one thing i will say that people should be on alert for is that when you have criminal cases, you often have missed step something can happen. and so donald trump will use those things as evidence as to why this is like a cricket case. it's normal in our judicial system to not always have a perfect streamline from point a to point z. but it'll work in his favorite to try and twist it and say see their out to get me. and so they need to be prepared for that. also? yeah. so this this all kind ties together on predictability, what whether it's going to break through or not. and jimmy kimmel talked about it on his show last night. watch what he said all those trials are behind schedule and most now won't likely happen until after the election if at all, which i don't know seems like >> quite a lot of due process for which to me we can burn

this, which yet her attorneys are saying the water we use to see if she floats wasn't distilled some here were there isaac. but this is of course it's a historic moment, right? a former president, current nominee for a major party, going on criminal trial. you've spent all this time inside the maga movement. >> how do you think they are going to see it >> differently from the general election to trump? trump is now trying to win. now that electorate. >> well, it's an intentional collision from trump's perspective. i mean, i was there for the hearing a few weeks ago that that set this date. and every time trump went in and every time he went out of the courtroom, cameras, he the campaign is for all intents and purposes for the next six weeks or however long this takes going to be in that hallway between the office where he meets with his lawyers and the courtroom where he's going to go into 40 wall street and holding press conferences and trump is comfortable in that space of dominating the new cycle. he and his campaign

like that. they think that works for him. but when this is the subject matter we'll have to see what do you think >> i think that this is not a great look for trump. i mean, this is where i think analysis still hasn't quite shifted from primary to general election, right? because in the primary undoubtedly trump's legal troubles help him, right? people rally around and they'd say this is a witch on an but in general flexion, a lot of these sort of college-educated suburban swing voters don't love the look of a presidential candidate living in a courtroom and so i think that his campaign seems to have not made the shift yet out of primary mode. >> do you think it's going to be enough, allison the ashley allison, the existence of this trial, the fact that it is happening to grab people's attention at a time when it is very hard to grab people's attention for anything. is it a big enough deal? >> i don't know. i mean, i think i'm not trying to say it should or shouldn't. i mean, it's a still to me, but like can we can so much flooding our

timeline in life happening? i'm not sure. i mean, it does have some some juicy details to say the least. so i think if it spins out until again, like the kimball's of the world and becomes comedy perhaps. but i think it will have to break through on a pop cultural level and not just because it's donald trump him, because he's in court because i think people sadly expect that at this point it's really something that's sort of a frog in boiling water thing where everything he says people become a neural tube or the frog, where the frog, yeah, we have become, i'm joe. >> i'm dumping out the water okay. >> all right. speaking of a trial, but got a lot of attention and grabbed america attention completely how the oj murder trial in the 90s changed america and house speaker mike johnson has to mar-a-lago for a joint appearance with donald trump plus baseball star shohei ohtani's former translator. such as surrendered a federal authorities today i've been

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the run-up to the 2020 election. not, not always in bad faith, but in the aftermath of covid many states change their election laws in ways that violated that plain language. that's just a fact >> all right. panel rejoins >> sarah longwell. what does what does my johnson need from donald trump today and what does the two of them together standing on a stage say to you about the evolution of the republican party. i mean, when i think about it, when i compare what it was like for trump to come to washington in 2017 when there was a republican party that's still stood independently of him. it seems to me that this is really going to send a message but that's over. i'm curious your view. >> i mean, it's kinda been over, but here's the thing about what's happening right now, is that my johnson and marjorie taylor greene are kind of there in a fight with each other and they're running to the ref, donald trump, they're running to the big guy to see who heal back in this dispute

over you know passing a bill to fund ukraine and marjorie taylor greene, she wants to be like trump's right-hand person, just like kevin mccarthy, she's part of the new maga establishment. but mike johnson also wants to be chief of the maga establishment. he's the speaker of the house. he wants to be able to have trump back here m, against marjorie taylor greene, who wants to file a motion to vacate if he goes ahead and funds ukraine. and so this is actually to meet interesting from a trump perspective, like is he going to back them both? is he going to pick a favorite once you're going to do? but as far as what it means about the republican party, the extent to which it is, you have to make these pilgrimages this is tomorrow logo, like kevin mccarthy did after january 6. it's really seems to me to be so get trump's behind you. that's all you need to know about where the republican party is. >> isaac. i mean, what's your sense of sarah's question here about trump and what he's gonna do it and he does often try to have it both ways, right? keep everybody in the tent, but is

he more johnson or more marjorie taylor? green and something like this? >> well, keep everybody in the tent. i mean, another way of saying that he's very comfortable with cats and a bag and loyalty goes one way with trump. i mean, we all remember kevin mccarthy looking through the starburst to pick out trump's favorite flavors. and that did not rescue kevin mccarthy when it was time. so this helps mike johnson day. it gives trump's something that he wants today. i don't think that it goes any farther than that big picture. ashley allison, >> one of the things that johnson is fighting about with the right-wing of his conferences, fisa, i don't want to get into the technical details of seconds russian 702, but i do think johnson's explanation for why he is essentially changed his mind on fisa and gone from someone who was willing to stand with those right wingers who say it's the government spying on you. and instead attempt to move an extension of it that angered his right wing? he explained

it. i'll just let him tell you why it is. he says he changed his mind. watch this area, saw the abuses of the fbi. that's terrible abuses over and over and over the hundreds of thousands of abuses and then one over. can you speak girl into the scalp and gotten the confidential briefing from the other perspective on that to understand the necessity of section 700 two 5s and how important is punished when security and gave me a different perspective >> so g, he suddenly learned why was that? >> it's important >> for the country for this to go forward. and this just really stuck out to me because it seems like these story of the way these narratives get built on the right and become reality when phat, you are actually exposed to real information and details about what it actually takes to secure and govern a country. and this is the result. >> yeah, i mean, i think it though plays across the board, whether it's fisa whether it's the election denial that you all were just talking

about. it is this warped sense of we're going to run. i'm going to keep your sports analogy going. i might change sports up a little bit, but you're going to run down the field with the ball on like stop at the one yard line when it's no longer makes sense to you and two talk about cats and a bag. it's like maybe mike johnson is trying to get out of that bag for a little bit and get into that bag. but by justin does not want to lose his speakership. and so part i think going down to mar-a-lago today is like donald trump will tell him the direction to go and he will fall in line. >> yeah. >> but it's just funny to watch these people who go from activists to get elected, to go into actual governing and saying, oh, there's a reason for these things and oh, when you're an adult in the room, you have to make more difficult choices to defend the country. and suddenly like, oh, actually i see the purpose of this marjorie taylor greene will never turn off the activist part of her that's what sort of unique about her where mike johnson for all of his laws, is actually trying to figure out how to govern in this position.

we're just watching him figure it out and real because he is so new to the job, i should get a placard that i can hold up that just as governing is hard >> all going up next, >> vice president harris >> fronting the fight for reproductive rights for democrats plus new bodycam video of an officer for jumping into frigid water to save a drowning teenager >> central. today, its second easter any drives check get i'd go to america's best for a comprehensive quality. i exist oh, call america's best because i care is health care. and you deserve the best phat size signage that gets you noticed. it turns hot lots into homes that's signs. >> make your statement >> if lawn care were easy,

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one most >> luck thanking >> sunday and ninth of space, for stoma, whole story with anderson cooper, the james webb telescope you alone. followed by the two parts, finale of space shuttle columbia, both final flight. sunday starting at eight on cnn glows captioning brought to you by feel away, optimum enhanced calming for cats. >> have your cats sprays outside the litter box, fights with other cats were scratches the furniture, they could be telling you they're stressed to help them feel more calm, dr. feel away. optimum >> all right. 22 minutes past the hour, five things you've got to see this morning and washington state police officers saving drowning 15 year-old girl, officer steve o'neill, jumped into a lake and dragged her to the shore. we're two other of his fellow officers helps fold are out,

loved, loved that i parts of southern russia under water this morning as the region deals with massive flooding artificial dams and kazakhstan had been blown up to lower water levels in flooded areas archaeologists are uncovering new roman frescoes in pompei, the town varied bible lava and ash from mount vesuvius more than 2000 years ago. wow, look at that. >> the ancient art depicts >> characters from greek mythology. it's wild and tiger woods working overtime this morning. he is one under after 13 holes. he's going to have to play 23 holes today after a reigned shortened round one. >> he is six shots off the lead. >> it's gonna be along de for him, especially in the wake of that long recovery, he said that's for recording its wettest april day so far the city slogging through its third-wettest april ever. now facing life threatening flash flooding, look at that yeah.

ics thinking of them >> and of course this as more than 30 million people are under wind advisories this morning with gsa could reach up to 55 miles an hour, causing travel delays and power outages are weatherman van dam tracking all of it, derek, good morning. what are you looking at? >> yeah, good morning, kasie. this is the storm system that just will not quit. so last night will take you into the western suburbs of pittsburgh. and this is what it looked like. people traversing through flooded roadways, not recommended. obviously, we've got that slogan from the national weather service turn around, don't drown because especially at night, you cannot see how deep that water is. nonetheless, it was a very difficult night because there were there were actually some water rescues that took place. and this is going back to a very heavy rainfall event that occurred yesterday that you set it wettest record april de on record. but we did some digging into the data and we actually saw that april real second of this year was also the previous wetter wettest april day. so you combine those and the other showers in-between that and we are quickly approaching the wettest april ever recorded for

pittsburgh. so that's really saying something, flash flood warnings have been allowed to expire, but we still have flood warnings. so the rivers within this area, western pennsylvania, in particular, still very swollen. we could have some ponding on the roadways with the showers moving through. now, this is a storm system that was responsible for the tornadoes in florida, as well as mississippi and louisiana, was there yesterday tracking this system and you can see the flood threat throughout the northeast today as the system wraps up on. now we want to pay attention to the severe weather threat that is this ongoing this week across the plains, heads-up oklahoma city, monday is going to be tough, de okay. >> all right. good heads-up. weatherman van dam, derrick. thank you very much. have a wonderful weekend. see you monday. thank you. to all right. coming up next, remembering the o.j. simpson and the trial of the century plus the message that vice president harris will take to the key back hello, ground, state of arizona >> how would really happen? >> sunday, >> april 28 and nine on cnn we

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wrote for generations of family tradition. >> i want to make perfume >> so i meet barbers, new psychic count by guaranteeing her maximum refund intuit's turbotax i'm jeff zeleny on the campaign trail in omaha. >> in this >> is cnn >> welcome back in the wake of the arizona supreme court's controversial decision to uphold a civil war era abortion ban. democrats are swiftly uniting rounding simple message. donald trump did this vice president kamala harris will travel to tucson, arizona today to hammer home that message. her visit coming just a day after the biden campaign launched a seven figure ad buy in that battleground state to try and seize on the outcry over the court's ruling. our panel is back with us now >> ashley >> allison harris really kind of stepping out as a messenger on this >> how do you >> view the white house decision to do that? i mean, she has definitely taken a lot of incoming. she's had a lot

of criticism over how she's done the job as vice president, but that doesn't seem to have shifted some here as we head towards november she is uniquely positioned to address this issue faced on and she has been doing it really since the overturning of roe going out, getting outside of the beltway, talking to voters, talking to a physician. she went and visited an abortion clinic. i also think this actually highlights her experience because a lot of these laws require state ags to prosecute women for doing that. and she used to run the second largest department of justice our country. so it really showcases what she, how she is as a leader, what she has done, and her career and how she is able to connect with voters and we've seen in past election cycles whether it's the red wave that never manifest said, well, there's in 2023 with kentucky governor beshear being able to hold on the governorship, ohio, being able to pass as codify abortion into their constitution, that she played a role in those states. and i think she'll continue to

do that and battleground states like arizona, first case in point, but also florida and other states where we might see it on the ballot. >> yeah. i mean, sarah longwell, what do you hear from voters when you talk to them about this issue in the wake of the fall of roe, you know, it's interesting and it was weird the first time i heard voters saying if it then i heard it so often which is a lot of republican voters say, well look, i'm pro-life, but i believe in a woman's right to choose. and now that may sound like a contradiction, but what they mean is that the personally are pro-life, but they sort of liked the law where it was. and in fact, when i talked to i was just recently doing a group of two times, trump voters, entire group identified as pro choice. and so for republicans. they know this is a political dynamic that is terrible for them, especially if democrats are able to put this on the ballot. and as a ballot initiative, because here's the thing about voters and abortion. when you ask people at the beginning of a focus group, hey, how do you think things are going in the country? they never bring up

abortion, almost never. it's very rare. they talk about economy, they talk about crime and inflation >> and >> so if you bring up abortion, their energy gets really intense about it, right? and so what you have to do for democrats is increased the same killian's of abortion for voters make it more top of mind. and so the biden campaign prosecuting this case, i think is the right way to go about it. and then when states like arizona word is literally on the ballot, that makes a big difference for democrats, i think. well, and especially when the conditions also increase the salience that right point out that the existence of this law, isaac, i mean, i think one thing that donald trump is trying to rewrite essentially his story on abortion. he was the person that put the justices on the court that struck down roe versus wade. that was what he was promising in his campaign in 2016. now that said he also 1999 said that he was pro choice. he's in new york. i mean, i'm not sure that there are a lot of people that buy that personally, this is something that donald trump cares a ton about. and i think

my question is for the maga movement. and how much do they really care about it? there's lots of there's a scene in the new new york magazine piece. it'll of inuits he has with steve bannon and kari lake praying together and kari lake did use to seem to be a true believer on this. now, she's making calls saying we've got to overturn this isn't something maga really cares about, or are they just trying to voided. >> what's interesting with trump, this is like the one issue that he doesn't automatically run to the right, run to the most extreme position on it's like the one issue where he is very explicit about just seeing the political implications of it and he's, he comes out and says like what we need to win elections and the the advisers who were lobbying him to pick a number of weeks thinking about kellyanne conway and lindsey graham specifically, the argument they were making to him as like, if you don't if you don't endorse 15 weeks are 16 weeks federally, you are going to get stuck and blamed with every state ban that's more severe with that. then he rejects that advice, says leave it to the

states the next day. this arizona decision >> yeah. i mean, sarah, how do you see that? and we've talked a little bit about this on the show that voters, and how do voters see trump when he tries to kind of navigate this? >> yeah, so i mean, this is just an under >> appreciated point about the wave voters see trump, which is they think of him as a cultural moderate. >> and >> i think sometimes people are are surprised when i say things like, hey, i had a whole focus group of trump voters and they identified as pro-choice, doesn't surprise me that much, and it doesn't surprise trump because trump brought new people into the party to vote for him. they are not like mike pence republicans and right, nobody thinks of trump is like having a sexual morality like mike pence would. and so on. things like gay marriage and on things >> and he's he is good >> at trump, has good political instincts on triangulating where voters are. and so he has been trying to say like, hey, i gave you republicans these three supreme court justices who overturned roe v. wade. so you got that from me, but also i'm going to leave it to the states and i myself am a moderate and i'm not going to

put in a federal ban so that i can appease these swing voters and center right voters who don't want these things. these things though, like what's happening in arizona, make it hard for him to have it both ways to things on this one, when you said earlier that a lot of people are like, i'm pro-life, but i think a woman should have a right to choose. there's actually a lot of democrats that feel that way to that we believe that this is not something that government should be in your bedroom. and so when trump was running in 2016, it was an idea to overturn roe. and so for so long, we've seen republicans used abortion as i'm i can mobilize evangelicals around it. but then when it actually became the law, when we want to roe was overturned, people realize that's what that idea is, not what they really want it and is dramatically out of touch was where most americans are, regardless of party affiliation, ashley, to this question about lindsey graham, kellyanne conway behind the scenes telling donald trump, you should do 15, 16 weeks

national ban over being held accountable for these very draconian state bands are more draconian stay fans, i should say as a democrat, thinking about running against trump, where would you rather he be >> i mean, it on policy position, i would rather him not be in an all. >> but i mean, like if you're trying to run a campaign event on like what's think it actually matters because i think there's a contradiction in both positions, right? so if you say national ban, that is contradictory to where you originally said that you want it to be in the states and so you can run a campaign on that regardless of where the weeks are. so i don't actually think either way either play where he falls on the position he is the reason why we are here and if he says he wants an ash there'll be in it's contradictory in the ads, almost write them for themselves because he has so much content on it. >> i don't know. i think i think when he comes out yeah, for for a ban or anything that

is more i guess on the extreme side. this is the thing about abortion. >> it is >> not that voters will vote just on abortion, it's that a bortion is the entry point for them to understand how extreme a candidate is so back in 2022, when democrat, even though republicans had higher turnout, democrats outperformed in tons of key races, but it wasn't just because of abortion. it was because of abortion. plus election denialism plus like blade pick masters liked the unabomber, you know, it was like they kind of all came together to form a picture of extremism at a slice of voters reject and they can abortions and easy one for them to understand extremism through. and so i think the more extreme position like voters understand this law is from the civil war before women could vote, that sounds insane yeah. right before the cowboy hat was invented >> one thing, just one thing on this is i agree. >> but every >> time we find ourselves with a week, you then have an exception or you have a case

that comes out that magnifies the how extreme a week. >> if >> you say 16 weeks, there, it's why it's a good issue for democrats run because there are the woman's body is complex. having a child is complex. and so every case is unique and of itself, which is why you can have a federal law that applies to all. and there will just be case after case after case that allows democrats to magnify the extremism, regardless, i think aware people and the reality is it's some of the later cases, women who it would be cast as well. you want to be able to kill a baby at certain time. it's almost so would rarely be about that. instead, you've got women who are like desperate to have a healthy child. they want to protect it at all costs and they can't for some terribly tragic reason that leading to pregnancy you're just briefly sarah, the way you were saying it's an entry point to extremism, it just strikes me that that was ultimately what was reversed with roe falling was that it was republicans could say claim democrats are

extreme on this issue. and now it's just been straight-up reverse that when people say republicans are like the dog that caught the car on this, what they mean is, is it used to be an issue where they could go on on offense against democrats that has reversed now, it is now, democrats can go on offense against republicans saying no, you're the extreme one. you're the one that's out of touch with the american people and the right about that, yeah, for sure >> all right. up next here, it was the trial of the century, up next, how the o.j. simpson case transform the way we handle high profile trials today, plus the federal charge against the former interprprete for baseball superstar shohei ohtani >> there's debris in this guy, parents, husbands and wives gone >> so i could have done something differently you can just make it better for those that follow space shuttle columbia, the final flight two part finale, sunday at nine on see if lawn care were easy. everyone would do it as well as true greene does it, drew greens online tools help ensure

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>> 44 minutes past the hour. here's your morning round up. the former translator for baseball star shohei ohtani, expected to surrender to federal authorities today hey ippei mizuhara faces bank fraud charges after allegedly stealing more than 16 million from ohtani kansas city chiefs wide receiver rashee rice bonding out from jail after turning himself into police last night he's facing numerous charges from a high-speed race in dallas that ended in a six-car pile up argentina's president meeting this morning with elon musk in texas. he is in the united states for four days hoping for a cash infusion for argentina's struggling economy that is a serious statement that a world leader goes to someone like him for that. there'll be a robust security plan in place for donald trump's hush money trial next week sources describe it as sophisticated multilayered, and more expansive than trump's previous high-profile cases. in

manhattan >> from one high-profile trial to another, o.j. simpson, who passed away and his trial of the century we the. jury and in baffin tidal action find the defendant or jaw orenthal james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder in >> violation of penal code section 1807, a felony upon the coal brown simpson, a human being as charged in count one of the inflammation that infamous case. do you remember where you were when that happened? because i do is watch by over 150 million people and it's burned a media frenzy that gripped and divided the country. cnn's tom foreman reminds us police believe that that oj simpson is in that car for two hours over 60 miles, >> almost 30 years ago, the low speed pursuit of an american icon became an american sensation. >> people were leaving their homes and their work and where they were, and they were racing to these overpasses.

>> and when the white broncos stopped pro j simpson to face murder charges over the killing of his ex-wife, nicole brown and ronald goldman. the country was hooked and that was our first introduction into reality tv. and what it looked like, we were obsessed. >> simpson was a superstar, a heisman trophy winner in college. one of the most data hazlett running backs in nfl history for many black families, in particular, a runaway success. >> nobody does it better than her juice was a beloved celebrity and commercials and movies >> how you buddy docsis as fuel my been in this know what a week and he had his role as defendant eclipsed everything else through 11 months of court proceedings and nonstop media coverage. the nation was captivated by daily debates over dna evidence, police procedure, and dramatic moments made for tv. >> if it doesn't fit you must acquit when the verdict came

down, not guilty of the crime of murder. >> my one >> estimate, 150 million people watched live many splitting along racial lines over whether the ruling was just or just wrong. >> it's just >> a massive civil suit by the victims families did not go as well for simpson and he was ordered to pay tens of millions in damages. he lost his house and heisman, but kept hundreds of thousands and pension funds our family is grateful for a verdict of responsibility which is all we ever wanted >> simpson had future legal problems. two, in 2007, he was arrested after an armed robbery involving sports memorabilia, he said was his i'm sorry. i didn't mean to steal >> anything from anybody and i didn't know i was doing anything illegal. >> he wound up convicted and sentenced to 33 years in prison. he was paroled in 2017 and through it all, he

maintained his innocence in the murders that changed his life and american society to right now, i'm at a point in my life. well, i want to do is spend time with my as much time as i can with my children and my friends. i've done my time for the families of the victims, the browns and the goldman's o.j. is continued presence in the news served as an open wound, a kohn let's didn't reminder to them of the justice they always felt was denied. tom foreman, cnn washington >> all right. joining me now is michael smerconish. she has a cnn political commentator and the host of cnn's smerconish, michael happy friday. wonderful to have you quite the trip down. memory free lane in terms of what this trial, this man meant to our culture in the 90s, you have been, you were at trial attorney. what or what has been going through your mind as we have been transported back to this period in time? >> well, when you ask, do you

remember where you were when the not guilty verdict came in? i don't know if you could see me shaking my head. not only do i remember exactly where i was then, i remember where i was the night of the white ford bronco chase. and for those of us of a certain age, we were transfixed. i have an embarrassing confession. i was so hooked on this trial that i remember being in la and tracing the route from rockingham to bundy to see if it all made sense. now, those of us who were obsessed with the trial, you'll remember those references america has always loved a good trial. go back to the 30s. it was bruno hoffman in the lindbergh baby he kidnapping. but what was different about o.j. where the cameras in the courtroom and kasie in such an advocate of the idea that anywhere we as citizens have a right to go watch, our government function, there ought to be a right to a camera, including the supreme court of the united states. but ironically, the o.j. case was such a setback for my argument

because the courtroom was out of control. >> it took >> like a year as you just pointed out, judge ito just did not rain it in. he allowed the lawyers to ride rough shot. so forever, i've been saying to people there need to be cameras and courtroom, but don't let a o.j. your yardstick that is a really interesting way to think about it because yeah, you're right. it does. >> if it came really performative, i >> mean, those moments where he puts the glove on and i am interested to know what you think about how that impacts i mean, in theory, it's not supposed to impact a jury, >> right. >> but i think we all know in reality that it creates these cultural moments that can't help. but influence the process somehow. how do you think about that? >> it's taken me years to appreciate the jury nullification that took place in the o.j. criminal trial. i'm not defending it. i think he was guilty as sin. i thought it then i think it now. i'm not comfortable with it, but at

least i better understand the sort of score settling that that case became because of the person exception of the lapd over a period of years. and so yeah, it represented so much more than whether the o.j. had killed the brown simpson and ron goldman. and my my heart broke then i haven't thought about fred goldman for years or kim goldman, but man, i was thinking about them last night. it brought back so many memories. dominick dunne, a young jeffrey toobin, sitting in that courtroom, and every night, those of us like tuned into larry king for the recap of what had happened that day in case we couldn't watch it in real time >> i mean, it's it's really just remarkable. i mean, look, i was i'm showing my age here. i was in fifth grade aid when this all laid out and my teacher, my fifth grade teacher, i presume because she felt like she absolutely couldn't miss this cultural moment. turns it on for us for like ten years old, i'm, i'm

unclear on how any of it was appropriate, but that was the sort of impact of that moment and it's why i remember where i was and to this day, there's a cover band that plays here in dc that's super popular with people of a certain age like myself, who grew up with 90s music called white ford bronco. and again, i think i was taking a little bit back by by the nostalgia. it's not nostalgia is not quite the right word because that implies there's something something positive about it. it's not that but it was this cultural moment that michael, let's be clear and i'm curious how you think this ties in with what we're going to see with trump come next week in another trial that is gonna be widely covered, but obviously without the cameras, it's it's likely to have a different cultural impact than this one, but there aren't that many moments that we all experience as the same culture at the same time. obviously in this case, was a divided america. you noted the racial divide, but we still were all there watching it together. >> it's true. we don't have the common experience that we

had in the mid 90s. the internet has fueled our ability to go in different directions, like gone are the days when we all watch seinfeld, cosby show, friends. we don't even watch the same shows anymore. >> but >> we were all i mean, tom foreman's package said that like 150 million people by some accounts, we're tuned into watch that verdict. i can't think of something about which we were also obsessed. and now to have this conversation on almost the eve of a former president going on a criminal trial, it will again in a rorschach test, not divided along racial lines. the way that they're o.j. war. but my god, this trump case, it's got a relationship underlying it likely o.j. case did it seen in dramatically different ways by different communities like a o.j. it's got characters. i mean, michael cohen is a character. there were keto, kaitlyn characters galore in the o.j. case. so i do see

similarities. the cameras, the big difference. and again, notwithstanding what went wrong in o.j. i. wish there would be cameras in the courtroom on monday man, it would be remarkable if that were the case. michael smerconish, it's always wonderful to chat with you. thank you very much. she have a very be here and have a great show tomorrow everyone tune into your saturdays at 9:00 a.m. it's right here on cnn. stay next week, i hope. all right. my panel is back because all of us have only been able to talk about o.j. and a lot of these breaks. ashley allison can you take us into i mean, he touched on how this really did divide the country in racial ways, kind of what the meaning of this was from that perspective. >> yeah. i mean, i posted something on social media last night about what was your conversation and your home in 1995 when the verdict came down and what was it last night when we found out? j died and i my premise is that it's still rooted on race and the issue is the reason why that case was so charged i too got to watch the

verdict in eighth grade isn't ours class. and i saw it happening. i i was happy. i don't think i had a concept of who was guilty in who was not. i was a child. i probably shouldn't have been watching the case about two people being killed at the end of the day but it was so racially charged because of what had happened just before with rodney king, but also just how black americans feel about policing. it's not like o.j. simpson was the leader of the civil rights movement of his the error, you know, he wasn't a social justice leader, but he represented something for the black community in that moment in that trial, particularly because there were two light people who had been killed and the history around how black people have been persecuted during slavery. there was just so many layers. and i guess i would just close with this this is that there was racial tension then there's racial tension now, it might not be the backdrop of the trump campaign, but until this

country is ready to actually have an honest conversation about the racial dynamics from our origin story till today, we will always have moments like a o.j. simpson, that man if and our country will always be divided if we don't actually deal with the issue of race >> fair enough. i mean, the thing that struck me is when i thought about audrii simpson, who i had not thought about, and a very long time admittedly, me either it reminded me about trump, like there's something there's some very trumpy early elements to this, this case, like the way that at both i think as a culture and you can correct me if i'm wrong here, but as a culture, you sort of, everyone kind of knows trump is guilty the way we all knew that o.j. guilty, but you didn't there's a lot of people invested in it being about something else beyond the guilt, right? because these figures are so towering and so big that they become stand-ins for like they become cultural totems as opposed to just people convicted or people being accused of crimes. and also, so people want them to be

in a center or want them to want to talk about their persecution and the people in the center of it. trump's and o.j. a. both have the ability to make themselves into victims in the moment and play off those cultural names narratives. well, you know, i'm looking at this. >> so this is a cover the new york post, right? and this takes like what i would argue the opposite side of what ashley allison was talking about and it says real killer is dead, right? this is how that remembering o.j. today football star, actor or murder liars, o.j. simpson 70 >> i mean, this is >> like a political statement, but it's a 90s political statement. pardon me, wonders if this wouldn't be reversed in today's day and age to that the maga crew wouldn't have been behind o.j. simpson. now maybe it's like 17 bridges too far. i don't know. >> but >> the sort of the way and i'm just thinking a lot about how our information travels here, because isaac, the way that donald trump uses the information fields that are available to him to kind of flood it in a way that convinces people and basically convinces people you should believe this set of facts

because you believe this about how the world should be does that make sense? >> yeah, and there won't be cameras in the courtroom, but there'll be cameras all around the courtroom and we'll watch trump's plane go to new york and we'll watch trump's motorcade go to the courthouse and there's something very white ford bronco about that. >> yeah. >> sarah, do you think that the trump trials should be televised? you wish it was? >> i hadn't thought about it until it's preconscious was just saying i certainly would love to see it. and i do think i think it would be bad for trump if it was televised. i think him sitting there and the way that he fights with the judge's like the reason he's been getting these big verdicts against him and these civil trials like the e jean carroll israel is because he's such a jerk in the courtroom he fights with the there's a reason there's a gag order on this one. he has been attacking the judge and the judge has family. and so i think if there were cameras, it would be bad for him instead, he gets to come out and control the environment with the cameras, which he likes. so yeah, i like to see this trial. yeah. and there's no unpredictab