1995, ron goldman, sister kim, and his father fred, say that simpson's death comes as a shock to them, and that for quote three decades, we tirelessly pursued justice for ron and nicole. and despite a civil judgment in his confession in if i did it, the hope for true accountability has ended. despite his death, the mission continues also, new reaction tonight from one of the key witnesses at the trial in 1995, keto kaitlyn, who lived in oj simpson's guest house at the time of those murders, had this to say i, wish to express my love and compassion to the goldman's, to fred into kim i hope you find closure and finally to the family of beautiful nicole brown simpson. may we always cherish your memories >> kaelyn also expressed his condolences to the children of

oj simpson thank you so much for joining us tonight. cnet news night with abby phillip starts now oj >> simpsons, all american horror story comes to an end. that's tonight on these good evening. >> i'm abby phillip in new york tonight. ron goldman and the brown. you should remember those two names and also this name for what prosecutors said that he did to them oj simpson. he died today from prostate cancer at the age of 76. the running back turn broadcast are turned pitch man for everything was a fixture in american living rooms for over decades of his career until he went on the run it just moments. i'm going to speak with oj

simpson's ghostwriter, the man who helped him with that semi confession book. if i did it. and also with gloria already, who represented nicole brown's family through both trials. but >> first, some >> some slow speeds sprint from police wound its way through la and unwound the myth around that man giving the country of of a jealous domestic abuser who police immediately suspected of brutally killing his ex-wife and her friend i'm going to interrupt this call. i understand we wanna go too well live picture in los angeles is that correct okay. let's his interstate five and this is courtesy of kasie a. elana, one of la affiliate let's probably curlies believed that right now that oj simpson is in that car police believe he is in that vehicle >> lower down on the ground. let's pick up what >> the various the kcl broadcasters saying at this point that the officers would

do just about whatever they do in any type of telling me that >> they believe that this vehicle is registered dow caroline was the recording has oldest friends or teammates at southern cao, what the pressure the vehicle and just hope that they believed that i'm calling who's the other person they're looking for, who was with oj earlier today, they believe again, they believe that this is the car. we do not know this is the car the white broncos are those cars following what is it presumed to be the car containing oj simpson now a fugitive from justice the car is traveling at normal speed. the police reports that the oj simpson is in the passenger seat, and apparently has a gun. >> you get a >> glimpse california highway patrol has now confirmed to cnn that it is definitely and they are almost certain that oj is

in the passenger seat. >> that we're just now crossing the sixth, so five california. he was also telling so we're starting to meet opinion because he as long doors but east long beach >> again, oj appears to be holding a gun to his head >> i could tell you that i've seen chp officers stopping people from getting on to the four row five downtown 405 as you know, is a parking lot with everybody stopped and out of the cars looking a for this chase to come. but the sunset boulevard opera he is open ended, appears that they think that he might get off here the whole way going north along a four, five, it is an amazing site along the right-hand shoulder. people have pulled over, many of them carrying signs such as signs, reading things like safe the juice go oj, people are literally cheering him on as he travels north down on the fourth row

five. and we can only assume that he plans to get off at sunset et go towards perhaps even home. >> greg wires, oj simpson now that i'm cannot tell you all about a block away and i have no monitors, but i can only assume he is inside the home they did agree to allow him to speak with his mother, but there's one question that has been resolved here and that is certainly that he is in police custody and unharmed. apparently, what a day what a day >> one of the witnesses for the prosecution in that trial was pablo fen vez. he was nicole brown simpson neighbor and he testified that he heard her barking dog the night of the murder i heard a very distinctive barking coming from somewhere to the south of where i live and i was aware of it for maybe 567 minutes. >> was there something unusual about that dog barking that

drew your attention to it >> it was a fairly persistent i was at a significant pitch? and as you may recall, i described it at the time as a plaintiff whale sounded like a very unhappy animal >> that >> testimony was a >> critical part of the prosecution's timeline. but in a bizarre twist decades later, fen vez would then be asked to go strike some since hugely controversial book. if i did it, that book was ultimately canceled by noon this court, the parent company of the publisher, harper collins, the goldman family, then got the rights to the book and worked with vendors to release it. and pablo invest joins me. now, a pablo, thanks so much for joining us. you do have so many connections to this oj simpson story. let's start with your reaction to his death today >> role? the thing that stood out for me was that >> any entire time i spent with oj working on a book, he never

expressed any remorse and oh, jni spent a fair amount of time together and it was sort of an unusual relationships since i had testified against him, as you pointed out but i didn't i didn't feel a great wash. i actually felt more for the goldman family and the brown family and for his children because of this checkered history to put it mildly that testimony that we just played, there was really a critical moment in this trial, but then for you to ten years later, actually even become a ghostwriter why would you agree to do that >> well, what happened was i got a call from the publisher, judith three going and she had she said she had this project with oj and i said i testified against him. i'm completely the wrong guy for this project. but i've done a number of best sellers for judith and she trusted me and she thought that

if anybody was going to elicit an actual confession, honore oj, i might be that person so initially i said i didn't really want to go into business with him and the legal team already, harper collins sent over documentation in i saw that the deal was made with his children and i figured well, if they get a little something out of this, it's not a bad thing. so i i signed on and got on a plane in and flew down amino j he said, first thing he said, he said to me was the opening words we shook hands and he goes like, have you ever heard of a man being put away for murder by a wailing dog so he was basically saying i know who you are and i remember for who you are and we sat down and had lunch in got off to a slow start, but things took off from there. >> do you think that that was

maybe one of the reasons why he agreed to do it. what was in it for him to have you, someone who testified against him? as his ghostwriter >> i don't know if he gave it that much thought you know, there's somebody presented a deal to him and i guess he thought the terms were yeah. agreeable and he just let's get this done. let's let's do this job. when we sat down and it became a form of therapy ghostwriting is a lot like therapy for the client. they sit there and you walk them through there there history in this particular case, it was one chapter of his history that everyone was interested in. and so that's what we focused on. >> so you said that he never expressed any remorse in the course of your working with him did you think he was guilty while you were writing this book >> oh, you know what? at one

point were in a hotel suite working together and we'd been working for a few days and he said you pablo, now that you know me a little better and maybe liked me a little bit, do you still think i did it and i said, i'm sorry. oh gi i thought you did it when it happened dozen years ago. and i still think you did and, he exploded and it was a lot of theatrical because a few minutes, a few moments later he was laughing and he said, i know, i know you think i'm guilty and any thanked me for being honest with him. and as i as i said in the past, it wasn't like i'm a big, brave writer. it's just that we were in middle of working on a book together. and if i had lied to him at that point, it would not have helped the project in any way. so i was just honest with, you, describe him as someone who would explode at you in moments like that and then minutes later start laughing. i mean, explain to us what kind of person someone who spent a

lot of time and book therapy with him, what kind of person really is oj simpson? >> well, for awhile i thought maybe there was a lot of cognitive dissonance there and maybe he really didn't think he had done it. but the more time i spent with them, the more i felt that he knew he hadn't done it because as we got closer to that chapter on the murders, they became harder and harder for him to deal with i mean, it was a real struggle. i mean, he he never he never fell apart and he didn't cry. but he was he was angry and worked up as we've got to that chapter, he kept saying i hate this chapter, i hate this chapter. do we have to do this chapter? and i said that's the only reason we're doing the book. it's this chapter. >> this chapter. the other thing that i is interesting the chapter about the murders. the other thing that i thought was interesting is, you he, in the book, when he talked about meeting nicole, it was

incredibly romantic and a young waitress in a coffee shop in beverly hills, and then as we got deeper into the marital issues and the abuse, he was just getting angry or an angrier and saying they turn me into the poster boy for wife abuse. and he basically was murdering her character in the book everything that everything that went wrong in the marriage was was her fault and there was a weird sense that he was he was saying if if i did it, she had it coming. and that was really chilling to me. and it was just showed what i was dealing with. >> he had some point tried to turn the public against you >> why >> well, i thought that was sorry, i found amusing. what happened was the national

enquirer broke the news about the book and suddenly there was like a storm and and the goldman's, we're on tv every day decrying the people who were involved in the book and it was it wasn't pleasant, it didn't really affect me. i have a complete another life outside of the book business but jay decided you know, if if the book is a confession, maybe pablo did it. i mean, he he lives just 50 yards from nicole's house and he seems to know so much about the murder so he basically was throwing me under the bus a little bit >> all right. pablo fan vez. thank you for sharing that. i appreciate it >> thank you very much. thanks for your time. >> next, i'll speak live with gloria. all read. she represented the coal brown's family during both of those trials. her reaction to simpson staff plus breaking news as one of donald trump's trials starts

just days from now, we are getting word that one of his key lawyers is now off the legal team and a newsletter exclusive. and the first joint interview with the independent presidential ticket, cornell west and molina abdullah. their first interview since she became west's running mate standby for that >> houston, you are go for the birth debris in this guy parents husbands and. wives gone if you work in spaceflight, this is the worst possible thing i can ever happen >> balls into pieces of debris are now pieces to a puzzle. i should have that test on day one. >> i wish i could've done something differently. what i can undo that you can just make it better for those that follow up. space shuttle columbia the final flight, two part finale, sunday at nine on cnn, i met with the turbotax expert because i had two full-time jobs, lawyering and mimi count on, me mia. >> i'll file your taxes for

you 100% accuracy guaranteed lead to turbotax full-service expert, do your taxes as soon as today >> dude, what are you doing >> i'm protecting my car. >> that's too much work. whether tech is so much easier laser measured floor liners up here, seat protector, and cargo liner back there nice out here side window deflectors and mud flaps, and the bump step keep the bumper debt-free, cool. it's the best protection for your vehicle. new, more pre-owned >> great. but where do i order >> whether tech.com >> you've got better things to do than clean out clog gutters, calling filter today, and never clean out clog gutters again, leaf filters technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed well e3 three, the filter today, more physically filter.com covid-19. >> i'm not waiting. if it's covid packs love it, packs. logan is an oral treatment for adults with mild to moderate

covid-19 hi risk factor for becoming severe. it does not prevent covid-19. my symptoms are mild >> now, but i'm not risking it if it's covid packs low tax, low must be taken can within the first five days of symptoms and helps stop the virus from multiplying in your body, taking packs loaded with certain medicines can lead to serious or life-threatening side effects or affect how id or other medicines work, including hormonal birth control is critical to tell your doctor about all medicines you take because certain tests are changes in their dosage may be needed. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, hit we want our plan to become pregnant or breastfeed. don't take packs, love it. if you're allergic to nima, 12-year ritonavir or any of its ingredients serious side effects can include allergic reactions, some severe like anaphylaxis and liver problems these are not all the possible side effects. so talk to your doctor >> commercially insured patients may pay as little as $0 and the us government is making packs little bit avail able to medicare medicaid and uninsured patients for free terms and conditions apply to both programs. learn more at pax low bid.com slash paxos,

and ask your doctor today if it's covid packs lovin >> when these business owners need cash fast, they turned to viz to credit to fund what's next from fitness studios to medical offices and every small business in between. we've got you covered whether you need new equipment, funds to expand or need money to cover unforeseen business expenses, bus to credit is the trusted partner for your small business funding needs. scan the code on your screen now or go to biz to credit.com to apply

makes it so easy. get started today at customizing.com. >> i'm sunlen serfaty in washington and this is cnn moore tonight on the death of oj simpson. it was his criminal trial verdict that captivated and divided america mr. simpson, would you please stand and face the jury this is

robertson superior court of california when you're county of los angeles in the matter of the people of state of california vs orenthal, james simpson, case number be 097211. we the jury but often tidal action find the defendant or owens all james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of penal code section 1807, a a felony upon nicole brown simpson, a human being as charged in count one of the inflammation >> superior court of the state of california, county of los angeles in the matter of the people state of california vs orenthal, james simpson. we the jury in the above and tidal action, find a defendant orenthal jaime simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder. and violation of penal code section 1807, a felony up on ronald lyle goldman a human being as charged in count two so of the information we, the jury in the above, entitled action further, find a special

circumstance that the defendant or they'll james simpson has in this case convicted of at least one crime of murder of the first-degree and one or more crimes of murder of the first or second degree to be not true sign this second day of october 1995. >> juror two, 30 >> ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is this your verdict? he'll say you want so say you all all right. council. and mr. simpson, would you be seated, please >> have it quiet the courtroom, please prime. this is wrong i've written would you please pull the jurors >> he number of key figures who were involved in oj simpson's 1995 trial, including our next guest became basically household names osce angeles attorney gloria all represented nicole brown's family and she joins me now. gloria thank you for joining us tonight. your reaction to today's news

>> well i don't mourn for oj simpson in the civil trial that followed, he was found liable. that is responsible for the deaths of nicole brown simpson and ronald goldman. may they both rest in peace? and that's important and the big difference between the criminal trial and the civil trial that followed is not only that less evidence is necessary in a civil lawsuit. in other words, there's no necessity sat to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. that's the burden of proof in a criminal case. but also in the civil case, he testified he did not testify in the criminal case because he invoked his fifth amendment privilege itself and criminalization, meaning he had a right to remain silent any exercise that right but once he was acquitted, he had to testify in a civil lawsuit

because the double jeopardy he couldn't have been re prosecuted and he did. and the jury didn't believe him, didn't believe his denials that he had beaten nicole brown simpson five years here's before he killed her, before he de almost decapitated her and left her in a pool of her own blood at the doorstep of the condominium where his young children were inside, abby and could have come out looking for mommy at any moment and then seeing their mother deceased before there very eyes. thank god, they didn't come out, but oj simpson is a killer that he is ghislaine. he was liable for wrongful death. that is what the civil jury found. and it is never been reversed and so it's fair to call him a killer. but look this is not just about oj simpson. this about the system failing battered women. this is about not believing that i high

profile celebrity man, rich, famous, powerful, would kill his wife. the same wife that he pled no contest to beating, giving her a black eye. she ran terrified from the home five years before and hid in the bushes and he was charged with spousal battery. and he admitted he entered a plea of no contest, but what does the judge do five years before her killing? did not sentence him to one minute in jail. and so he became a powered. so he became emboldened. and then ultimately we see what happens when there are no consequences for batters. nicole simpson paid the price and so did ron goldman and nicole's family we have not heard from them yet, but we have gotten a statement from the goldman family. it says in part, despite a civil judgment and his confession, and if i did it, the hope for

true accountability has ended, which is to your point. >> but >> gloria, what i want to ask you about, i mean, we played that video from the courtroom. it's just a microcosm of the dichotomy that was playing out all across america at that time. there's still people today who believe that simpson committed the murders but also that he was correctly acquitted due to what they see is holes in the prosecutor's case, what's your response to that argument >> well, i mean i'm an officer of the court. i respect the jury's decision in the criminal case. they have i been in the jury, of course that is not a result that i would have reached. there was and we all remember the statement, a mountain of evidence presented by the prosecution against mr. simpson you but karma is very interesting years later, there is no charge within convicted of armed robbery and nevada and

kidnapping and so forth. he went to prison for nine years. so sometimes people can't really escape themselves, their, in their own prison. and in a way, oj simpson paid the price and now his legacy is going to be that he is a convicted felon, found liable by a jury for having killed two innocent human beings. and, he hurt not only nicole brown simpson and ron goldman, they paid the ultimate price, of course he's hurt his own children by doing this, my hearts go out to sydney and justin and they are now adults. and especially to the family of nicole brown simpson judith, and in lu, the parents of nicole. they did everything while he was in jail awaiting the criminal trial to begin. they took custody of sydney and justin. they surrounded them with love they protected them.

they did everything to support them as did the ants. denise and dominic, and tania. and what a loving close family they were and how heartbreaking that when he got out, then he fought them for custody. but look, the main thing is let's remember the victims and also care about them. and i'm so i'm proud of denise and the other sisters for always standing up for victims of domestic violence and continuing the fight in the name of nicole gloria already. thank you very >> much for joining us. you had a front seat to so much of this that is really just etched in our collective minds. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you >> next in the next hour, don't miss a special edition of laura coates live on the life and the death of oj simpson. that is 11:00 p.m. eastern time only right here on cnn. and coming up here on news night, a news night exclusive independent presidential candidate, dr. cornell west and his his vice presidential running mate, dr. melina

abdullah. they'll speak live with me. it's their very first joint interview since becoming a ticket. that's next sunday and ninth of space for stoma whole story with anderson cooper the james webb telescope. are we alone? >> followed by the two parts for >> net space shuttle columbia, the final flight, sunday starting at eight on cnn >> oh, yeah. >> ticket from your inner child? what you really need to live is some fricking torque was >> dodge hornet rt that totally, totally del >> i have moderate to severe crohn's disease now, they're sky rosie, things. look in up. afghans in don't really control i crohn's means everything to me >> feel significant symptom relief at four weeks with sky rosie, including less abdominal

pain and fewer bowel movements sky rosie is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improved damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remaining mission at one year, serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms had a vaccine or plan and to liver problems may occur and crohn's disease now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's widths guy, rosy learn how fe could help you save file 100% free with turbotax free edition, roughly 37% of taxpayers qualify form ten, 40 and limited credits only. see how a turbotax that's me copd hasn't been pretty it's tough

to >> breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. metrology as shown me that there's still beauty and breadth to be hacked >> because three >> medicines in one inhaler, trellis she keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups and with one dose a day, drawing allergy improves lung function. joe, i can read more freely. whole day and knight trilogy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it, do not take trilogy more than prescribed trilogy may increase russia risk of thrush pneumonia and osteoporosis. call your doctor force in breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling problems, urinating, vision changes, or i paint occur ask your doctor about watch daily. trilogy for copd because breathing should be beautiful. >> and two options for you. take a look at when it's time for an update or complete remodel yourself.

>> there here are you guys really everything down to the story about this with you. >> every step of the way from design and products to removal and installation. >> okay. >> what do you guys think? >> it is, right? he handled the entire process to >> create a beautiful and functional bathroom for whatever your life needs. ray-ban with you every step of the way.romise, you

won't regret it. >> five risk-free with are 30 de fit guarantee at honey love.com. >> you carbon, a cnn film sunday, april 21 at nine tonight a >> history-making pair promising to disrupt the normal order of business. cornell west and molina abdullah are the first african-american pair two top a presidential ticket west announced his running mate yesterday and says his choice would put a smile on the face of martin luther king junior from the grave a. doula is a political newcomer, having never run for political office before, she is also a

university professor at a black lives matter activist and organizer. she says that they are running to show americans that there is another way a way that doesn't saddle them with a choice between joe biden and donald trump both of us want to disrupt the narrative that you have only two choices are one to say the world tries to tell us that we're tethered to certain ideas that we don't have to be tethered to. we be expansive and imaginative joining me for their first joint television interviews since announcing that ticket is independent presidential candidate, dr. cornell west and his vice presidential >> nominee, dr. melina abdullah. thank you both for being with us. dr. west, i want to start with you. this is as you noted, a history free making, choice on your part. all african-american ticket, but also a ticket that includes the first muslim on a presidential ticket that was announced on the, on the end of

ramadan. what message are you sending by doing that? >> first, i want to thank you for having both of us on its own. it was a blessing to be my dear system, alina. but no, i think both of us we come from a great tradition of a great people who in the face and patriot tear and trauma, but does love warriors, freedom fighters, and wounded healers. and both of us attempt to be true to that tradition that's what i meant. when i said put a smile on the face of fannie lou hamer and a smile on the face of mondo the king g smile on the face of harriet tubman. so very much like the musicians, you know what i mean? devan, when marvin and tami get together when when when when count basie as for billie holiday it's a black ticket rooted in the best of a people, but it embraces ever read batting because it's about justice across the board. it's about freedom across the board. most importantly, it's about truth because we got a whole lot of lyon and hatred and revenge in american politics. we provide an alternative vision and a different way of

engaging politics. >> so i do have to ask you about the political realities that we're in. you know, this as well as i do. some of this polling is not good for you. dr. west? sit shows seven swing states that will decide the election you are behind robert kennedy jr. in all of them the low single-digits, the same is true in a national poll, the same is true even among independent voters, young voters, people who i think you would think are part of your constituency. do you read that as a sign? that there is not perhaps the appetite for what you are putting on the table. >> well, we shall see it has never looked good for anybody who has a deep love for black people, love for poor people, love for working people, to be up against the system that's just the case. you know to me, you understand that trended dad from rather carlos's the june we going to keep loving are chow, but it doesn't look good. look at your now sharp on tv, arbitrary. you never know, you

got to keep loving, keep fighting, keep swinging. that's what this ticket is all about. and i'm blessed to be with my desk system so i want to ask a dr. abdullah you are a newcomer to the political sphere, and i want to ask you about some of your positions. you have tweeted in the past about supporting defund the police, which is something that i think perhaps some people in the black lives matter movement support, but also this tweet from back in 2015, the kkk, the police, and government officials are one in the same i wonder, do you stand by that comment >> absolutely. and thank you for having me. >> i >> want us to understand the history of policing in this country. and so twitter doesn't allow you to give a whole history of policing in this country. but in a few sentences, we can just confirm that there is no historian that i've ever come and contact with who disputes the fact that policing in this country hails

from slave catching. and so when we say that policing is the new millennials, slave catching, we're not saying that we don't want public safety. we're saying we want are real public safety work community is really centered. were black safety is centered and we know that when black people are safe, we also create safety for everyone else dr. west, you talked about your campaign being about abolishing police brutality, poverty, and homelessness. can you be specific? what are the policies behind those pretty big, lofty ideas? >> well, one is that abolition as the fundamental theme of the black freedom movement that embraces poor and working people across the board abolition of slavery, abolition of jim crow. i want abolition of poverty. i want to abolition of homelessness. i want the abolition of workers not gaining assets to wages. so that the larger context a, policing has to do with, we got to make sure we don't have poor people in despair. we've

got to make sure that young children have quality education, health care, and living wage, and safe community. so it goes hand in hand in that regard, but it's the ugly police brutality that we just saw and mississippi with brother jenkins. and by the park. thank god. malik you bias and by the trent down in lawyers, what happened down there these are getting shot in the mouth. we see it over dexter reed and chicago. that's what we want to abolish. fundamental question, why? let's forgive me for interrupting >> sure. about >> policy solutions you've knowledge we acknowledge the problem >> what is the solution? and you know, but abolition of policy, of poverty is a policy that's very important wages being high enough, quality education is a policy and then we have police having community having oversight of the police and the police being accountable. that's why i mentioned whether jenkins rather park police must be accountable, but we have to understand policing and the

context of the larger commuters conditions which have to do it too many poor people, not enough assets to education. we have get a lot to a lot of issues on the table here in this election. one of the biggest ones right now is what's going on in gaza. go to war over there. i know that you both support a ceasefire there. the latest >> for end of occupational end of the seashore palestine. >> i just ask you specifically about where we stand here today. hamas according to cnn's reporting, cannot be cannot assure israel that it has 40 living hostages. that are women that are ill, that are elderly out of the more than 100 that are still believed to be in gaza if they cannot do that, they don't know where they are. perhaps they can't guarantee that they are still alive. should hamas immediately release all of the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire that is desperately needed by the people of gaza

well, we've got to look at the situation from the vantage point of the least of these 25th chapter method is 15,000 >> palestinian children who've been murdered. that's all the more reason wild and they got a craftsman all the more reason why there to be at it is possible that third immune ceasefire tomorrow, if hamas would release all the hostages in their possession immediately, should they not do that? >> no, no, the idea if it's not gone, it's not going to ceasefire just for releasing they themselves. i'd have to stop. >> keeps the deal that is on the table and hamas themselves say, well, i can assure them that is palestinian or whatever, but it's the palestinian lives that are being lost. we've got to start there. that's been part of the problem. biden has been part of problem with schumer. they don't look at the situation from the vantage point of those who are suffering the most. a look at terrestrial. i mean, it does sound like you will not say that if hamas were to just

release the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire, that they should do that now, you believe that they should do that one? i'm saying >> that nathan yahoo is not trustworthy the idf has engaged in terrorizing the palestinians and terrorizing anybody is wrong. but to terrorism that they are doing, it reaches the point of a crime of genocide so for me, they have to stop. there's no >> responsibility in your mind for hamas >> responsibility. of course, they're part of the palestinian community in palestine community has their own agreement and disagreements, but hamas is not the culprit at all. it's the idf for their terrorizing. >> i want to go to downloads. i want to go to dr. abdullah blonde is because in the early days, just after this war began, shortly after october 7, the black lives matter chapter of los angeles, it's an organization that you found it and spent some time and i believe at that time. it wrote this on social media when people have been subject to decades of apartheid and

unimaginable violence, their resistance must not be condemned, but understood as a desperate act of self-defense that sounds like a defense of hamas that was that, is that what it was >> that was a statement that was released that just by black lives matter los angeles, but black lives matter grassroots, which is all 33 on the ground, chapters of black lives matter and we released it october 9, which was two days after october 7. >> so do you >> three with the statement, i recognizing, do you reveal that sentence? absolutely. >> i think it's really important to understand where uprisings come from, even when we may disagree with tactics that are used. this did not begin on october 7, this began 75 years ago with the nakba. and so to understand just one

piece of what's happening gives us a complete lack of understanding. so we have to understand this. yes. as a desperate act and how do we get to peace is to end the occupation and how do we get to peace is to demand of free palestine. >> so >> dr. abdullah, let >> me ask you plainly do you condemn what hamas did on october 7? >> well, i find it really troubling that we're constantly asked to condemn hamas. i'm not a member of hamas. why would i be asked to conduct? >> i don't >> see any asking i'm not a member of hamas and i don't find a troubling or difficult at all to say that what happened on october 7 was imporant so i'm wondering if you would be able to say the same i find it even more troubling that an entire state

has been built on the >> genocide of a people. and i think that we have to start with that first this, i want to ask this question of both of you, but i'll start with you, dr. west i noted just in doing some research to prepare for this, you both use the phrase from the river to the sea. this is being used generally by a lot of pro-palestinian protesters, but it's viewed by jewish people. and pretty widely as a call for the extermination of the state of israel. do you believe that the state of israel should exist >> i have much with many presses, jewish brothers and sisters who used the same slogan because they understand there's got to be palestinian dignity and jewish dignity has got to be palestinian safety and justice. and jewish safety ingested. they go hand in hand, right now, there is a reverend to see. it's an apartheid state and a calling for even fuller control. and more

occupations. the river to the sea is already actual, is just now genocide and ethnic cleansing. we want a situation in which precious palestinians and presses jews can live together under conditions that does not include a your state in your mind? >> a jewish state that is predicated on the domination of you are staying in a piece, support. you believe you wish >> really important that we not collapsed jewish people with zionist state, right i've been blessed to be in struggled alongside justice, loving jewish folks i have members of my own family line who were holocaust survivors and they are jewish people. i have lots

of jewish folks who stand with us as we chant for a free palestine. and so it's important that we recognize that there is a distinction to be made between jewish people and the state of is i just wanted to note that it's not just that the adl and people like that are saying that this is a call for the eradication of jewish people. so is the head of hamas, the head of hamas's political unit says, we will not recognize israel. palestine must stretch from the river, from the jordan river to the mediterranean sea so if that is his view as well without the existence of an israeli states how can you say unequivocally that that is not a slogan that at least contemplates something that would be genocide. >> oh, no. there's no doubt that there's a variety of different palestinian voices in the resistance movement. hamas doesn't speak for every palestinian and the same way that nat turner didn't speak for every black person when he

ended up killing innocent white folk. i don't believe in killing an innocent anybody? but you're going to have a variety of voices, but you don't start with those voices without coming to terms with the vicious killings and occupations has been going on for 75 years and then you get a counter-terrorist response to that so that i think is the framing that has to do with a colleague october 7, a counter-terrorist response oh, absolutely. >> if you've been terrorized for 75 years and you responded the same way. nat turner in the blaze cp was founded where at harper's ferry, but john brown john brown was killed, edison. he wrong to kill innocent. was he wrongly resist slavery? >> not at all. i do want to live. doris understood. we're almost out of time, but i do want to move on real quick just to returned, back to politics for a moment here because the big issue that's facing you and dr. abdullah is a ballot access. there's a conservative activist, scott presley, who says he's trying to get you on north carolina >> bird has got before he's trying to help would you accept

his hell? >> no. no, i don't think so. if it's just manipulatives, you see, this is a campaign not about louk narrow tactics and strategies. when i mentioned the name of martin king and final lou hamer, we talk about principal. so talking about integrity it on my truth teller so if it's just a manipulation of people going to use this candidate for x and y no not at all. we come from the people we fold up, people we will not live and die for the people. why >> are there so many conservatives? harlan crow offered you money? he's a major republican donor why are so many conservatives? wanting you on the ballot? do you think of any other conservatives who is doing it? >> i just named >> one harlow that at all, other than harlow, but i mean, he's the only one and i've known harlem for the last year-and-a-half. he's got a precious family. we have connected with him and the rabbit george and harlan is antitrust help either republican, i've got some republican france. but what did i do? i sent the money back and i call a total haaland doing

exam play learn. >> but >> harmony and give me money to manipulate me. not at all. know what i'm doing. that's not true at all, but it's not trudeau at the, at the end of the day. dr. west, are you worried at all that this effort even robert f. kennedy juniors effort, could end up for on the palestinian question. that could result in a donald trump presidency well, we have to see in real time. we still got a number of months. trump may end up in jail and biden may run out of gas and doing lbj thing and pull out and they had moved to the b team as we move to chicago, we don't know what we gotta. b is true to our calling. tell him the truth and seeking justice and standing and so on. our daddy would oppress people here and around the world. >> all right. dr. cornell west, dr. melina abdullah. thank you both very much for joining us tonight >> thank you. >> thank you for having me and god bless you. god >> a up next for us, breaking news about donald trump's legal team, a key attorney has now turned into a witness and his

leaving the case. i'll discuss how that could affect trump's cases. >> how would really happen sunday, april 28. good nine on cnn by a 100% free with turbotax free edition, roughly 37% of taxpayers qualify form ten, 40 and limited credits only. see how it turbotax >> that's me >> home home okay >> yes. >> focus on an american home she had warranty. i can protect your covered homes that appliances like this ac when the repair or replacement? yes. thank you it's oh, i'm not home. >> yeah, it's pretty sure it's home visit, ehs.com today, if are 40% off, i have moderate to severe crohn's

disease. now, there's sky rosie things. a look in up. i've got some dimly control macron's means everything to me >> feel significant symptom relief at four weeks with rizzi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements sky rosie is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improved damage of the intestine my name and the majority of people experience long-lasting remission at one year >> serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms had a vaccine or plan to liver problems may occur and crohn's disease now's the time to ask your gastroc in terra just how you can take control of your crohn's with sky rosie learn how b could help you save >> they slept on me for 15 years. things like collected

pollen, dust, dander, all that time. they could have protected me. >> mallory's mattress protectors walked 99.9% of dirt dust, and allergens for cleaners ease at allergies, find it where you buy bedding. >> when these business owners need cash fast, they turned to bids to credit to fund what's next from fitness studios to medical offices and every small business in-between. we've got you covered whether you need new equipment, funds to expand or need money to cover unforeseen business expenses, bus to credit is the trusted partner for your small business funding needs scan the code on your screen now or go to biz to credit.com to apply wice to credit funding. what's next >> if you have wet amd you never want to lose sight of the things you'd love >> week >> some things should stand the test of time i'm with long-lasting i leah hd could significantly improve your vision and can help you go up

to four for months between treatments if you have an eye infection, i paint or redness or allergies, twilio hd, don't use ai injections like alia hd may cause i infection, separation of the retina or rare severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye and increase in eye pressure has been seen. there's an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. the most common side effects were blurred vision, cataract, corneal injury, and i've floaters and there's still so much to see if you are on ivf or similar type of treatment asked your retina specialist about alia hd today for the potential for fewer injections >> kevin bought the top. >> i'll put it on my chase freedom unlimited call and i'm a cashback on a few other things too, dark all right. from day that's step one more

thing. the team when it gets five minutes gay cash rows >> i like it. i'll break the clay >> okay. back like a pro would chase freedom and limits. how do you catch back >> jason? thank more. of what's yours are >> four all-star teams return for a waterfront redemption showdown. >> we're going to bring but only one will make us flash. i think we nailed it, rocked the block. season finale might at nine on hgtv >> breaking news tonight, just days before donald trump is expected to begin his first criminal trial, cnn is learning that one of his key lawyers in other cases has suddenly left the team et corker, evan corcoran was part of the team in the classified documents case, and also in the election interference investigations. but corcoran then became a central witness he had important information that trump was keeping classified materials at mar-a-lago even after corcoran signed a document saying that there weren't anymore there corcoran

was then forced to appear in front of a grand jury after a judge ruled that attorney-client privilege does not cover his notes involving trump joining me now, is temidayo aganga-williams, a former senior investigative counsel for the january 6 committee. is this a surprise to you, the corcoran is out it's not a surprise. i mean, i think it's more surprising that he kept he was on the team. it's incredibly rare for a time that a lawyer is going to be a witness against his own client in a criminal case that almost unheard of. so i would expect that after it became clear that he had information that was critical to jack smith's case, that he would have been out of the team because that conduct reflect i think is one you really cannot overcome >> the judge has already ruled that these nodes are part of the case. now, they're not protected by 20 privilege if he's not part of the legal team, what does that mean for the other elements of the testimony that he might be able to offer them well, i think what it does is put president trump in a really precarious position. because evan corcoran is going to be a very credible

witness for small. he is someone who has first-hand knowledge. he's in the room speaking to the former president and he can basically shore up that obstruction charge because president trump basically used him as a further prince of that crime. he was having him tell the doj one thing when the former president knew something else. and secondly, he's going to be someone who's adverse to the department of justice. he's going to be a hostile witness, and that only adds at his credibility because anything he says there is going to be something that he has no incentive to lie about it. but hertz's own former client and lastly, it's all going to be corroborated. the notes that he has way recorded his his recollection of what the president of the former president was telling him. that's all going to be ensuring that he stays in the box of what's truthful. because if he does say something that's not accurate, jack smith has those notes he made in real time to impeach him with so it seems like donald trump goes through lawyers like, i don't know. i go through shoes. >> that's not normal. right? i mean, this is highly unusual. it's highly usual. and when i was a prosecutor, anytime or

client ended up or a defendant end up meeting more and more lawyers, the issue was the individual it was a defendant. it wasn't the lord for years. and i think if i were the former president, i would be especially concerned that someone who he spoke to and trusted as someone who has direct for some information that could lead to a guilty conviction. here is now going to be fully disconnected from him. and a prosecutor witness. it's not a good place to be. yeah. it's an independent place to be in a certain way. and so we'll see what evan corcoran has to say. temidayo aganga-williams. thank you very much. as always. and thank you for watching news night, a special edition of laura coates live the life and death of oj simpson starts after this break sail through the heart of historic cities, an unforgettable >> scenery with faking unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks local life, and cultural treasures

>> because >> when you experience fans, europe on a viking long ship, you will spend less time getting that and more time being that viking explorer during the world in comfort >> stay ahead if you're moderate to severe eczema and show off clear skin unless it's with depicts it, the number one prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists that helps heal your skin from within serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain for vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pains, or a parasitic infection, don't change or stop aza medecins without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about do picks clog gutters can cause big problems fast until now call a33 lee filter today for your free gatera inspection, i've had terrible >> flooding problems on my porch. now i understand why right now, we filter is

offering a free inspection on your schedule lee filter is a permanent gutter solution, so you'd never have to worry about costly damage from clog gutters again, call us today and schedule your free inspection schedule, your free inspection colleague. three three lee filter today more physically filtered? don. >> my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back. now with sky rizzi, i'm all in with clear skin. >> thanks again >> with sky rizzi, three out of four people achieve 90% clear skin at four months. and most people were clear even at five years sky rosie, it's just four doses a year after to starter doses serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms had a vaccine or planned to

>> now, the time asieh your doctor about tangor z, the number one dermatologists prescribed biologic and psoriasis. >> learn how api can help you save when, barbara was the turbotax, i broke four generations of family tradition i want to >> make perfume >> so i need barbers, new

lebrate your milestones with custom gear, get started today. i'd customer make laura coates live next on cnn glows captioning brought to you by, feel away, optimum, enhanced calming for cats. >> if your cat sprays outside the litter box, fights with other cats or scratches the furniture, they could be telling you they're stressed to help them feel more calm try feel away. optimum it's night for this hour, the life and death of oj simpson. i will talk exclusively with a juror